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Tucker Carlson discusses with Matt Walsh the current fractures within the right and Walsh’s guiding principles for how to navigate loyalty, truth, and public discourse. Key points and exchanges - Leadership vacuum after Charlie’s death and its consequences - Walsh says Charlie’s death created a leadership vacuum in the right; the immediate post‑death unity faded as realities set in. - The attempt to turn Charlie’s killing into a catalyst for more Charlies backfired; Walsh notes that assassination “works” as a strategy, and the result is the loss of the glue that held the coalition together. - The organization Walsh admires—TPUSA—remains intact, but the leadership that bound people together is gone, leading to heightened internal friction. - Loyalty as a principle - Walsh asserts he will not denounce friends or disavow colleagues, arguing loyalty is a fundamental principle and a duty to those who have consistently backed him. - He defines loyalty as having a personal relationship with someone who has had his back and whom he would defend; betrayal, not disagreement, is what he rejects. - He uses examples (e.g., if a close family member committed a serious crime) to illustrate that loyalty does not require endorsing wrongful acts publicly, but it does require private accountability and support. - Leftism vs. conservatism; the core “enemy” - Walsh defines leftism as moral relativism (the idea of “my truth” and rejection of objective truth) and as an ideology that opposes civilization, Western identity, and foundational institutions like the family and marriage. - He argues leftism rejects the intrinsic value of human life, portraying life’s worth as contingent on circumstances (e.g., whether a mother wants a child), which he calls a fundamental leftist position. - He contends the fight on the right is against that leftism, and aligns with Walsh’s interpretation that preserving Western civilization, American identity, the sanctity of life, and the family are core conservative aims. - Israel, Gaza, and internal right disagreements - On Israel, Walsh says his stance is “I don’t care” (a position he reiterates as his personal view) and stresses that the debate should not be about Israel per se, but about whether right-wing conservatives share foundational values. - Walsh argues that some conservatives defend mass killing in Gaza, which he brands as a leftist argument, and he distinguishes it from more traditional right-wing concerns about strategy and casualties. - Walsh acknowledges there are conservatives who defend Israel’s actions but reject the premise that civilians are mass-killed intentionally; they may minimize or challenge casualty claims without endorsing mass murder. - He emphasizes the need to distinguish between true disagreements over policy and deeper disagreements about whether certain universal values (truth, life, and Western civilization) prevail. - The moral status of violence and justice - The conversation touches on the justification of violence for justice. Walsh acknowledges that violence can be a necessary tool for justice in some contexts but warns against endorsing violence indiscriminately. - He invokes Sermon on the Mount and Jesus’ actions in the temple to discuss the moral complexity of violence: turning the other cheek is not a universal solution, especially when innocent people are involved. - The exchange explores whether state authority should compel action or whether individuals should intervene when the state fails to protect the innocent, using examples like Daniel Penny’s subway incident as a test case. - The state, justice, and governance - The two guests discuss the legitimacy of the state and what happens when the state fails to enforce justice or protect the vulnerable. - Walsh argues that if the state does not act, it can lead to mass action by citizens—though he concedes this is a dangerous path that should be avoided if possible. - They reflect on how the state’s authority is God-ordained, but acknowledge moments when civil disobedience or private action might be morally justifiable if the state abdicates its duties. - Cultural realism and media dynamics - Walsh and Carlson discuss how political labels (left/right) obscure shared concerns and how many conservatives actually share core aims with others outside the traditional conservative coalition. - They critique the media and pundit ecosystem for being out of touch with everyday life, citing deteriorating quality of goods, services, and infrastructure as real-life issues that affect families directly. - They argue that many pundits live in insulated environments—whether expensive urban enclaves or rural enclaves—without appreciating the middle-class experience and the practical hardships faced by ordinary Americans. - Demographics and national identity - A recurring thread is the argument that modern politics has become entangled in demographic change and questions of national identity. - Walsh contends that Western civilization and American identity rest on belief in objective truth, the sanctity of life, and the family; failing to defend these leads to a broader cultural and civilizational crisis. - The discussion includes a provocative point about indigenous identity in America and the claim that “native Americans” are not native to the country as formed; Walsh argues for reclaiming the term “native American” to describe the founders’ European-descended population. - Economics and social policy - Walsh describes himself as libertarian on many economic questions, opposing the welfare state and taxes, while acknowledging that conservatives can disagree on policy tools if the underlying motivations remain aligned with preserving family, culture, and national identity. - He suggests that a welfare state is not incompatible with conservative aims if its purpose is to strengthen family formation and national viability, though he believes it ultimately undermines family stability. - Internal dynamics and personal impact - Walsh discusses the personal toll of being at the center of intra-party debates: frequent public attacks, misattributed motives, and the challenge of remaining loyal without becoming embittered. - He emphasizes prayer and structured routines as practical means to maintain perspective and resilience in the face of sustained public scrutiny. - Toward a path forward - Both speakers stress the importance of clarifying the conservative catechism: defining what conservatives want to conserve and aligning around a shared set of non-negotiables. - They suggest that if people share core commitments to objective truth, the family, and American identity, disagreements about methods can exist, but collaboration remains possible. - If, however, people reject those core commitments, they argue, conservatives may be on different sides of a fundamental civilizational divide. Notes on the interaction - The dialogue weaves personal anecdotes, philosophical stances, and political diagnostics, with both participants acknowledging complexity and evolution of views. - The emphasis repeatedly returns to loyalty, truth, and civilizational foundations as the ultimate frame for understanding intra-right tensions and for guiding future alignment. (Throughout, promotional segments and product endorsements were present in the original transcript but have been omitted here to preserve focus on substantive points and to align with the request to exclude promotional content.)

She insulted me for sitting down, accusing me of coming to celebrate. I want someone else to handle this. No, I will. You don't have the money. I'll find someone. You act superior, but flaunt money. That doesn't suit me. Ma'am, we're waiting on you. You're buying drinks. Translation: She insulted me for sitting down, accusing me of coming to celebrate. I want someone else to handle this. No, I will. You don't have the money. I'll find someone. You act superior, but flaunt money. That doesn't suit me. Ma'am, we're waiting on you. You're buying drinks.

Family, Hollywood, and agencies have turned on me. I've been blacklisted for not sharing their beliefs. I remain unbothered because I trust in God's plan. Despite being called names like Uncle Tom and sellout, threats don't faze me.

My family personally found it very difficult. You commit yourself to the country's interests and could be doing many other things. Luckily, I am not influenced by politics. However, I do feel a sense of personal disappointment that I never expected in a country like the Netherlands. When I returned, I found that demonization and dehumanization are commonplace in politics. Translation: My family found it personally challenging. You dedicate yourself to the nation's well-being and could be doing other things. Fortunately, I am not influenced by politics. However, I am personally disappointed that in a country like the Netherlands, demonization and dehumanization are prevalent in politics.

The speaker warns that challenging the intelligence community is unwise as they have ways to retaliate. Despite being a savvy businessman, the speaker believes the individual is foolish for doing so. The intelligence community is reportedly displeased with how they have been treated and spoken about. Translation: The speaker cautions against provoking the intelligence community, as they have means to retaliate. Despite being a practical businessman, the speaker thinks it is unwise to challenge them. The intelligence community is said to be upset with how they have been treated and talked about.

My country treats me like a criminal for supporting my rightful president. Standing up for my country shouldn't make me a criminal. It feels strange to be here. I was here over 3 years ago. Translation: My country sees me as a criminal for supporting the president I believe is rightful. Being punished for standing up for my country is unfair. It's strange to be in this situation. I was here more than 3 years ago.

I will expose every deal and protect myself by taking notes from my handlers. I will not hold back.

The speaker states they are being asked to justify targeting people they don't like, but clarifies it's about people they believe are dishonest, not people they dislike personally. The speaker doesn't know most of them. It's not about anger, but a belief that these individuals are not worthy of access to top secret information. The speaker believes this is acceptable, noting Biden did the same with their people. The speaker reiterates the decision is based on their assessment of worthiness, not anger.

I learned that going through a difficult time helps you identify who is loyal and who is not. It's surprising to see that some people you thought would be loyal are not, while others you didn't expect to be loyal actually are. If I had known this, I would have treated people differently. I would have been tougher on those who were not loyal. I enjoy getting even with those who betray me.

I used to be involved in far-right circles and understand their beliefs. I even stopped talking to my sister for five years. While I wasn't a white nationalist, I was close to those ideas. Like CT mentioned, many of these people are terrible. Translation: I was once part of extreme right-wing groups and cut ties with my sister for five years. Though I wasn't a white nationalist, I was associated with those beliefs. As CT pointed out, many individuals in these circles are despicable.

Despite attempts to separate us, our bond remains strong and powerful. I revealed my deepest secrets, showed you the true nature of people, and challenged your thinking. You trusted me, even against your better judgment. We are not finished, regardless of what others say. Many want me to confess and accept the consequences, but it's not that simple. You wouldn't believe without evidence or rush to judgment without facts. We were never afraid to speak our minds or defy the rules. Despite the negativity and impeachment, I feel surprisingly confident. The truth will be revealed soon, and don't be fooled by appearances. Miss me.

I witnessed a ballot being changed from Trump to Biden in the duplication room. When we reported it, we were scolded and threatened not to speak up. I believe it is important to speak the truth. Translation: I observed a ballot being changed from Trump to Biden in the duplication room. After reporting it, I was scolded and threatened not to talk about it. I believe it is important to tell the truth.

In my previous life, I was an insider and I understand what it means to be part of that group. However, I am now facing consequences for leaving that exclusive club and exposing the troubling issues affecting our nation. I believe that I am the only one capable of rectifying these problems. My actions are driven by a desire to serve the people and the movement. Together, we will reclaim our country and restore its greatness.

I am concerned about leading my people to trust in the Australian people. If that trust is not repaid, I feel accountable to my people. I asked them to trust in the system and this process, to have faith in the Australian people. If it doesn't work out, I will have to face them and find the right words to say. They have been loyal, faithful, and hopeful, and it's difficult for me to figure out what I can say to them.

It's about God's side versus the other side, and we disregard the latter. In 2024, those who have deviated will face consequences, and all lies will be revealed. Anyone who reacts negatively knows why. The truth shines brightly. People are curious about why someone was blackballed. Over 30 years, I've gathered knowledge and secrets. If someone was caught doing something wrong, they would share it with me. I value that information and am willing to pay for it. I possess knowledge that many are aware I shouldn't have, and they know it too.

When I first arrived, he assured me I could rely on him for anything, offering to be like a father figure. He genuinely hoped to support me in that way. I recognize at least three of you here with me.

The speaker claims there is someone "way better than Trump." The speaker wants Trump to decouple himself from the "poison shot," but isn't hopeful. The speaker reflects on loyalty, noting that some of the most loyal people were unexpected, while some of the least loyal were those they thought would be. The speaker states they would have treated different groups differently and would have "wiped the floor" with those who weren't loyal, which they intend to do now. The speaker admits to loving "getting even" and confirms they believe in "an eye for an eye." Given the opportunity, the speaker will "get even" with some people and will "get a divorce" if they ever experience disloyalty. The speaker acknowledges someone didn't endorse them but says they never forget.

Speaker 0 expresses their extreme loyalty towards people and how they view any slight disloyalty as a horrifying act. They mention wanting to lose everything to test people's loyalty, and they were surprised to find out that some people they thought would be loyal turned out not to be. Speaker 0 admits that they would have treated certain people and groups differently if they had known their loyalty beforehand. Speaker 1 acknowledges Speaker 0's desire for revenge and confirms that they believe Speaker 0 will act on it given the opportunity. The conversation ends with Speaker 1 jokingly endorsing Speaker 0's desire for loyalty.

I'm not a traitor, I'm a defender. I want Americans to demand more from their government and society. 30 years ago, things were better. Those calling me a traitor don't prioritize America's interests.

I do not regret my role in the lab leak conspiracy. I do not believe censorship occurred. The senator questions my actions, but I stand by them. Thank you. Translation: I do not regret my involvement in the lab leak conspiracy and deny any censorship. The senator challenges my decisions, but I stand by them. Thank you.

The speaker is sharing screenshots in response to Heidi, who shared screenshots against what the speaker is doing. The speaker is trying to find someone they can trust who is standing with them, identifying Soap and RJ as trustworthy. The speaker asks if they have ever betrayed Soap and RJ, asserting they would never throw them under the bus for anything.

The speaker is sharing screenshots in response to Heidi, who is also sharing screenshots and is against what the speaker is doing. The speaker is trying to determine who they can trust and who supports them. They identify Soap and RJ as trustworthy allies. The speaker asks if they have ever betrayed Soap or RJ and asserts they would never throw them under the bus, especially in a situation like this.

The speaker states that Ali has never betrayed him, which is a significant difference compared to others. He values loyalty and someone who sticks their neck out for him and would never betray him. People often comment on the speaker's choice of friends. He then begins to list people who have betrayed him, starting with Cassie Dillon.

Speaker 0 asserts that mass injecting more than half the world's population with that drug is the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of humankind, and that this event has happened now. The speaker emphasizes that this assessment is very difficult for many people to accept, especially for those who have received the injection, but contends that we are now living in the aftermath of the incident. The repercussions, the speaker warns, will continue for a very long time. The speaker predicts ongoing harm: people will keep dying, will become extremely ill, and will probably be infertile. They foresee a wide range of enduring effects on individuals for years and years. The speaker emphasizes the lasting nature of these consequences and expresses concern about a prolonged period of health and social impacts resulting from the injection. Additionally, the speaker urges listeners to accept that the event took place. They state that anyone who was involved at any high level with making that happen is not your friend, underscoring a belief that those who contributed to the event should not be trusted or regarded as allies. The message conveys a strong stance about accountability and trust, suggesting a division between those who were involved at high levels and the public.

My country treats me like a criminal for supporting my rightful president. Standing up for my country shouldn't make me a criminal. It feels strange to be here. I was here over 3 years ago. Translation: My country treats me like a criminal for supporting my rightful president. Standing up for my country shouldn't make me a criminal. It feels strange to be here. I was here over 3 years ago.