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Speaker 0 questions whether Benjamin Netanyahu deliberately boosted Hamas to prevent a Palestinian state. Speaker 1 answers yes, it was deliberate and systematic, even on record: “Whoever wants to avoid the threat of a two state solution has to support my policy of paying protection money to the Hamas.” With the prime minister’s permission, Qatar was allowed to transfer a huge amount of cash, probably more than $1,400,000,000. By doing it, they increased Hamas’s power, with the objective that Hamas would continue to control Gaza while the Palestinian Authority would control the West Bank so they would fight each other. Speaker 0 states that Netanyahu maintained the Qatar money was to avoid a humanitarian catastrophe. Having helped to build up Hamas, Netanyahu has now vowed to destroy it. He “fed the beast,” and it exploded in our face. If national security strategy is based solely on force, then one would need to win twenty four seven forever.

You don't rape Jewish women, decapitate Jewish babies, and execute Jewish men, and think you're gonna get away for it. You're not gonna get away. As Israel has demonstrated, you're gonna die for it. And that's exactly what you deserve. And that's my view. The way you treat other human beings, these are subhuman monsters. That's what they are. They're called terrorists. It doesn't even seem to matter anymore. Oh, Hamas. Sounds like a food. Oh, man, pass the Hamas. No, I don't think so. No other country in the world, none, is gonna tell Israel what to do, how to defend itself and its people. Period.

Speaker 0 describes a dynamic of collaboration and tension around Iran, noting that the Israelis are “very American” and that they could have shouting matches in meetings over whose idea is best, but then go have lunch and remain amicable. He emphasizes that Israelis are good allies that the U.S. needs to protect, and asserts that CIA and Al Qaeda “worked closely together in Iraq. And Syria.” Speaker 1 adds that in Syria the aim was to overthrow Assad. Speaker 0 explains that there were times when covert action findings allowed meetings to talk to the “quote, unquote, enemies” to try to bring things down, as CIA officers. Speaker 1 observes that most of the world has a problem with Al Qaeda and ISIS (Daesh), but implies the CIA’s cooperation with ISIS and Al Qaeda lowers that problem. Speaker 0 argues that if the plan is for the U.S. to work with them, to work on a security agreement, which has been done with enemies before, the U.S. would have played that role side by side with diplomats and other involved countries, and he wouldn’t be surprised if that were happening; he calls it possibly hopeful. Speaker 1 notes that newspapers in the United States once celebrated Qasem Soleimani as a fighter with American troops against ISIS and Al Qaeda, and now that stance has changed. The speaker concludes with the reversal of priorities: “Now we have to go to Als ISIS and Al Qaeda to go back against Iran.”

The speaker is asked if they support Hamas killing 700 Israelis, including children, and kidnapping children. They respond by saying that the question is framed to make them look bad. They clarify that they do not support the United States, but they believe that the Israeli government is the real terrorist. The speaker is then asked a yes or no question about supporting the 700, but their response is not provided in the transcript.

Speaker 1 acknowledges that intelligence sharing between the U.S. and Israel is not total and that allies spy on each other, including domestically. Speaker 1, identifying as conservative, says this is expected because people act in their rational self-interest. Speaker 0 asks if it is in America's interest for Israel to spy on the U.S., including on the president. Speaker 1 responds that the close alliance with Israel provides huge benefits to the U.S. Speaker 0 presses on the issue of spying, asking why an American lawmaker wouldn't tell a client state that spying on the U.S. is not allowed. Speaker 0 expresses that it is weird not to say that, but Speaker 1 seems unable to.

Israel has been treating wounded Syrian rebel fighters, including those from the Al Qaeda proxy Nusrah front. The speaker believes in dealing with enemies humanely, regardless of political considerations. Taking in wounded fighters is seen as a humanitarian act, not just a political or tactical move.

Wanna get on to Ukraine. But, given that Israel is signaling it doesn't like the, Al Qaeda operative, Jelani in Damascus, and we know Tulsi Gabbard is something of an expert on Syria because she exposed the lies and the, phony war in Syria when The United States was supporting the ISIS and Al Qaeda rebels there. How do you and Trump has been very brave arguably saying, he's not gonna, start sending loads of money like Britain is to Tchelani. There's still thousands of American troops, though, in Syria. What is American Syrian policy Syria policy? America's policy towards Syria is basically Israel's policy. And what The United States was bent on doing was wrecking Syria and keeping it wrecked. That's the Israeli objective here. This is what the Israelis wanna do with Iran. They don't simply wanna do away with Iran's nuclear capability. They surely do wanna do that, but they wanna wreck Iran. They wanna turn Iran into Syria. And what the Israelis are doing in Syria is going to great lengths to make sure that Syria remains, a dysfunctional state. They don't want Syria to become, a formidable adversary. They want it to remain broken. And, of course, The United States will support the Israelis in that regard. So, of course, the Israelis are not gonna allow the Americans to give huge amounts of aid to Jalani so that he can produce a viable Syrian state because that's not Israeli policy. Just look at what they're doing in Iran. I mean, excuse me, what they're doing in Lebanon. It's a similar situation.

Reports indicate that Israel has been treating wounded Syrian rebel fighters, including those from the Nusrah Front, an Al Qaeda affiliate. While this raises concerns, the primary motivation for treatment is humanitarian. Tactical considerations exist, but the immediate focus is on humane treatment. There is skepticism about potential blowback from aiding Nusrah fighters, as the dynamics in Syria differ from other conflicts. However, when it comes to Hezbollah, the situation is different due to their history of actions against Israel, which makes treating them unacceptable. In summary, Israel is willing to treat Al Qaeda fighters but not Hezbollah fighters due to their distinct relationships and past actions.

Speaker 0 asserts that Bezalel Smotrich and Ben Gavir are “literally talking about exterminating the entire population of Gaza.” Speaker 1 counters that they are not talking about extermination. Speaker 0 insists the statements are brazen, up front, and what they actually want to do. Speaker 0 adds that Hamas is involved in a separate context. Speaker 0 says, “The West Bank had nothing to do with what happened on October 7, but they're annexing that land anyway. They're raining terror on innocent people, innocent Palestinians.” Speaker 0 concedes, “I am willing to admit, because it's the truth, that what Hamas did on October 7 was a fucking atrocity,” specifically mentioning killing innocent people. Speaker 1 challenges acknowledgement of atrocities against civilians in Gaza. Speaker 0 asks about a hospital being tapped; Speaker 1 responds that it’s an old terrorist trick and they do it “all the time.” Speaker 0 asks whether the IDF's action was wrong. Speaker 1 concedes, “I'm sure they have committed what we would call war crimes, as every army does in every war.” Speaker 0 notes, “Including our own.” Speaker 1 agrees, giving the Civil War example: Sherman burned Atlanta and Vad, arguing that despite brutality, the North were the good guys fighting slavery, and also noting Israel is fighting to survive and is the front line in the Western world. Speaker 0 disputes this, saying much of the problems in the Middle East come from an expansionist policy and that if Israel wasn’t trying to continue expanding, they would not be dealing with the enemies they’re dealing with. Speaker 1 disagrees that they ever were expanding, arguing they “were attacked” and that they “never been trying to expand.” Speaker 0 claims Israel is trying to annex the West Bank, southern Lebanon, and Syria, and argues they have succeeded in doing so. Speaker 1 says these are lands where they were attacked from when Israel became a country in 1947; he claims Israel said, “we will accept half a loaf,” and asserts they had as much right to that land as anybody, with a historical presence since a thousand BC when King David had a lineage. Speaker 0 dismisses this lineage-based argument as irrelevant to the present. Speaker 1 counters that it’s relevant, and asserts that the notion of wiping out innocent people merely because one’s ancestors lived there centuries ago is not acceptable. The conversation ends with Speaker 0 calling Palestinians colonizers, and Speaker 1 arguing they are not colonizers; they assert that Israel is annexing land, which, in their view, is described as colonization.

Speaker 1 asks if Speaker 0 supports Hamas, noting Speaker 0 is wearing a Hamas headband. Speaker 0 confirms support for Hamas and states they would join them, just as Speaker 1 would join the IDF. Speaker 0 says they would put a bullet in every soldier's head, clarifying they mean Zionists, not Jews, and that "real Jews" are elsewhere. Speaker 1 states that the IDF includes Jews and Muslims, but Speaker 0 claims there are no Muslims in the IDF, or if there are, they are hypocrites and traitors to the Muslim Ummah. Speaker 1 asks where the Muslim homeland is, and Speaker 0 replies it is all around the world and that Muslims will take over the world and implement Sharia law, which Speaker 0 supports.

The speaker was asked about the IDF's use of AI, specifically Lavender, to identify Hamas targets. The speaker stated they are not on top of all the details of what's going on in Israel and their bias is to defer to Israel. They believe it's not for others to second guess everything and that broadly the IDF gets to decide what it wants to do and that they're broadly in the right. That is the perspective they come back to.

Speaker 0: In gears to Syria. Our president has said that you're backing an evil guy there. He said Assad is an evil guy. Do you believe that? Speaker 1: what? That Assad is an evil person? Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: Let's talk objectively. Has Assad made mistakes? Yes, probably. And more than a few. What about the people who oppose him? Are they angels or something? Who is it that's killing people over there? Executing children? Who's cutting off heads? Are these the kind of people we should support? Speaker 0: We all saw the video of the suffering, dying children. Do you deny? Because Assad denies that those tapes are real. Do you believe those tapes are fake? Speaker 1: That's false information. As of now, we're absolutely convinced that this was a provocation. Assad did not use those weapons, and all of this was done by people who then wanted to blame him. Speaker 0: The bodies of the victims were autopsy. The autopsies were witnessed by officials from the World Health Organization and from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, and they concluded that the victims were attacked with sarin gas. Are are we really to believe that the whole thing was staged, that everybody was in on it? Speaker 1: The answer is very simple, and you know it. It could have been used by someone, but not Assad.

Images of babies lacking fuel and resources in a hospital in Shifah are circulating worldwide. The journalist asks if the Israeli soldiers will consider the humanitarian crisis in the Palestinian enclave. The Israeli soldier responds by stating that they are a democratic army defending Israel and all its citizens, regardless of their religion. They argue that the Hamas has also killed Muslims and that their operation is not bound by international law. The journalist questions whether entering a hospital aligns with international humanitarian rules, to which the soldier responds that hospitals should not be used as military bases. The journalist accuses the soldier of behaving like the Hamas, and the soldier requests respect. The conversation ends abruptly.

Israel has been reportedly treating wounded Syrian rebel fighters, including those from the Al Qaeda proxy Nusra Front, in its hospitals. When asked if these reports were worrying, Speaker 1 responded that it is useful to deal with enemies in a humane way. While the immediate consideration is humane, Speaker 1 did not say there were no tactical considerations. Speaker 1 does not believe there will be blowback against Israel for treating Nusra Front fighters because the rules of the game in Syria allow things not possible elsewhere. Speaker 1 would not treat Hezbollah fighters because Hezbollah has carried out actions against Israel that Al Qaeda has not. Al Qaeda, to the best of Speaker 1's recollection, has not attacked Israel.

Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss a sequence of war-related scenarios, making provocative comparisons and extreme claims about Israel, Hamas, and broader conflicts. Speaker 0 asserts that if Mexico occupied their land and then decided to cut off electricity and control inputs, it would be akin to Israel’s actions against Palestinians; he imagines a scenario where an occupying force could slaughter people for allegedly throwing rocks. Speaker 1 counters by noting Israel has nuclear weapons and that the world’s military power backs Israel. Speaker 0 asserts that Israel has nuclear weapons and that they do not use them, while Speaker 1 suggests Hamas would use a nuclear weapon in seconds if they had one, stating three seconds as the answer because it’s in Hamas’s charter. Speaker 0 asks how anyone could know that, and Speaker 1 cites the charter as justification. Speaker 0 argues that Hamas would be martyrs if they used a nuclear weapon against Israel, describing Hamas as having a death-cult view and noting that they strap suicide vests sometimes on children. He says people cannot see the moral difference between Hamas and Israel. Speaker 1 pushes back, saying they are not talking about extermination and notes that Basilel Smotrich and Ben Gavir have talked about exterminating the entire population of Gaza, while Speaker 0 claims the West Bank is another example and states that despite the West Bank having nothing to do with October 7, it is being annexed and that terror is being rained on innocent Palestinians, driving them from their homes. Speaker 0 acknowledges that what Hamas did on October 7 was a “fucking atrocity,” killing innocent people. He says he is willing to admit that atrocity, but he emphasizes his belief that the atrocities against civilians in Gaza are also significant. Speaker 1 concedes that the IDF and all armies commit war crimes in war and that “all wars are going to have atrocity.” Speaker 0 asks for acknowledgment of a double tap on a hospital; Speaker 1 describes the hospital incident as an old terrorist trick and confirms that such acts occur in war, but he emphasizes that all wars involve atrocities. The exchange references first responders and a vague memory of the event, with Speaker 0 asserting that first responders’ deaths and hospital strikes are part of the ongoing discussion, while Speaker 1 frames them within the broader context of war crimes by all sides. Overall, the dialogue juxtaposes occupation, nuclear deterrence, and moral atrocity claims on both sides, with explicit references to statements by Israeli political figures, Hamas, and the general conduct of war by all parties.

Israel fights wars quickly due to international pressures that force conflicts to end within weeks. According to Speaker 1, decisive victories must be achieved rapidly because the "clock is ticking." Speaker 1 clarifies that the conflict isn't between Israel and Hezbollah, but between Israel and Iran. Speaker 1 asserts that Hezbollah is essentially a forward unit of the Iranian army. They claim Hezbollah was trained by the Iranian army on Iranian soil, using Iranian weapons and tactics, and that their long-range weapons are controlled by Iranian officers. Therefore, discussions about Hezbollah are really about understanding Iran's objectives.

The speaker acknowledges the existence of tunnels under the hospital but questions their purpose as they did not appear to be a command center. The other speaker asserts that they know it was a command center because they witnessed it and have information from Hamas terrorists. The first speaker explains that it is normal to question in a democracy and they want to know if the hospital was used as a human shield. The second speaker accuses the first of trying to undermine their position and states that Israel is at war with Hamas. They believe questioning the number of casualties and the location of tunnels undermines Israel's position in the war imposed on them.

Hamas is seen as a troublemaker, but Israel values every life and aims to bring aid trucks in. Many organizations will be pleased with this commitment. The former house speaker is now joining the conversation. Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister, for your time.

Israel has been treating wounded Syrian rebel fighters, including those from the Nusrah front, in its hospitals on the border. When asked about concerns regarding helping Al Qaeda-aligned fighters, the speaker emphasizes the importance of humane treatment, regardless of political considerations. They believe that the immediate concern should be the well-being of the wounded. When questioned about potential blowback, the speaker does not anticipate any negative consequences, citing the unique circumstances in Syria. However, they clarify that they would not treat Hezbollah fighters due to past actions against Israel. The speaker distinguishes between their approach to Al Qaeda and Hezbollah based on their respective histories of attacking Israel.

The speaker states that they have not seen any evidence to suggest a need for a different approach in helping Israel defend itself. When asked if any formal assessment has been conducted to determine if Israel is following the rules of war, the speaker admits to being unaware of any such assessment by the United States government. The question of how they can ensure that the weapons and resources provided by the U.S. adhere to international law is raised, to which the speaker reiterates that they have not seen anything to suggest a change in their approach to assisting Israel's defense.

The discussion centers on how politicization of intelligence has manifested in different eras, comparing past and present administrations. Speaker 0 asks whether the politicized weapons claims about Iraq and the CIA’s statements in the 1990s can be compared to today’s politicization of intelligence under John Ratcliffe and Tulsi Gabbard as head of DNI, arguing it is much worse now because of the mediocrity of those in control of key agencies. Speaker 1 counters by recalling the 1980s, noting that there was significant politicization of the Soviet threat to justify Reagan’s defense buildup, and adds that this is why he testified against Robert Gates in 1991. He asserts that politicization is bad, and insists that the current situation is worse than in the past. Speaker 1 explains: “It’s Because I look at the people who are ahead of these groups. Come on. Let’s be serious.” He targets the leadership of the director of national intelligence, the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and the CIA, saying, “Have you ever seen a cabinet in The United States of such mediocrity, of such venality?” He emphasizes his background, stating, “I haven’t,” and that nothing compares to what is going on now, warning that “a lot of damage is being done to The United States and to the constitution of The United States and to the importance of separation of powers and the importance of rule of law and the importance of checks and balances. This is very serious stuff.” Speaker 0 attempts to steer toward historical figures like Robert Maxwell, but Speaker 1 dismisses that concern as off point, insisting he is making a point about Israel. The exchange then shifts to U.S. support for Israel, with Speaker 1 asserting that “Israel gets what it wants from The United States. It gets it from democratic presidents and from republican presidents.” He also criticizes Barack Obama for signing what he calls “that ten year $40,000,000,000 arms aid agreement,” arguing that Obama “never should have signed” it “because they treated Obama so shabbily in the first place.”

- Shortly before the attack, the government allegedly ordered the removal of all military presence from the area, giving Hamas a “free pass” to enter and begin their operation. In the following videos, former Israeli Defense Force (IDF) members warn that something very concerning is happening in Israel. - Afat Fenningzon reports, dated 10/07/2023, that Israeli defense forces around Gaza were instead positioned around the West Bank due to security concerns, leaving the Gaza envelope unoccupied. He says about 60 to 80% of that area was left without IDF forces. He notes that a year earlier there was a Gaza operation to prepare for such events, and ongoing trainings for these scenarios exist. This raises questions about Israeli intelligence: two years ago there were successful deployments of underground barriers with sensors to alert on terrorist breaches, yet there was zero response to the border and fence breaching. He emphasizes that Israel has a highly advanced military and questions how there could be no indication of what was coming, given that a cat moving near a fence would trigger forces. He asks, “What happened to the strongest army in the world? How come border crossings were wide open?” He describes the chain of events as very unusual and not typical for the Israeli defense system. He calls the current government highly corrupt and asserts the previous one was no better, stating his goal is to expose evil forces. He characterizes the surprise attack as seemingly a planned operation on all fronts and, if he were a conspiracy theorist, would say it feels like the work of the deep state. He suggests the people of Israel and the people of Palestine have been sold to “higher powers,” acknowledging how difficult the reality is to fathom. - Speaker 2 questions how the strongest army and the most sophisticated intelligence in the world could allow a few hundred Hamas fighters to enter Israel and cause the attack, while Hamas fighters did not meet any Israeli resistance in the area. He asserts it is not logical and implies there is more behind it, suggesting Israel sacrificed its own people and civilians on the Gaza border, removed protection and the army, and allowed Hamas to carry out their actions. He reiterates that Israel has the most sophisticated intelligence and a strong army, yet such an incursion occurred, implying hidden mechanisms or plans at work.

Speaker 1 acknowledges that while intelligence is shared between the U.S. and Israel, it is likely not all intelligence. They also assume that allies, including Israel, spy on the U.S., and vice versa. Speaker 1 states that conservatives recognize people act in their own self-interest. Speaker 0 asks if it is in America's interest for Israel to spy on the U.S., including on the president. Speaker 1 responds that the close alliance with Israel provides huge benefits to the U.S. Speaker 0 asks why Speaker 1 won't say that Israel is not allowed to spy on the U.S. and that they don't want to be spied on.

Speaker 0 discusses working with the Israelis, describing them as “very American” and noting that they could get into shouting matches during meetings over whose idea was best, followed by casual lunch and reconciliation. He emphasizes that Israel is a good ally that the U.S. needs to protect and support, and he asserts that CIA and Al Qaeda had worked closely together in Iraq and in Syria, and that there are times when covert action allowed meetings with the “quote unquote, enemies” to try to bring things down as CIA officers. Speaker 1 adds that most of the world has a problem with Al Qaeda and ISIS/Daesh, but there is less of a problem because the CIA worked with ISIS/Daesh and Al Qaeda. He suggests that if the CIA worked with them, it would be better to understand what they were doing, and if the plan is for the U.S. to work with them on a security agreement, which has been done with enemies before, then this has been done in concert with diplomats and other countries involved. He indicates he wouldn’t be surprised if that was happening and would call it possibly hopeful. Speaker 0 continues by noting that newspapers in the United States once celebrated Qasem Soleimani as a fighter with American troops against ISIS and Al Qaeda. He states that Soleimani “was, and now it's switched,” implying a shift in perception or policy. The overarching theme is the idea of collaboration or coordination with hostile or extremist groups in pursuit of broader strategic objectives, including countering Iran, and the possibility that such collaborations could be framed as necessary or hopeful within a complex web of alliances and covert actions. Speaker 0 ends by reiterating the shift in stance: “Now we have to go to al ISIS and Al Qaeda to go back against Iran.” This underscores a cyclical or ironic pivot in U.S. strategy, moving from partnering with certain adversaries against common threats to reengaging those same groups to counter another adversary. The dialogue presents a candid view of realpolitik, suggesting that relationships with seemingly incompatible actors and shifts in alliances occur as part of broader geopolitical objectives, with collaboration sometimes described as acceptable when it serves strategic goals, and public narratives sometimes contrasting with behind-the-scenes actions.

Speaker 1 acknowledges that Mossad likely doesn't share all intelligence with the U.S., just as the U.S. doesn't share everything with them, but emphasizes it's a close alliance. Speaker 1 assumes all allies, including Israel, spy on the U.S., and attributes this to people acting in their rational self-interest. When asked if it's in America's interest for Israel to spy on the U.S., including on the president, Speaker 1 states it's in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because the U.S. gets huge benefits from it. While acknowledging the spying takes place, Speaker 1 does not express disapproval, but rather focuses on the benefits of the alliance.