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The transcript discusses several intertwined points about the FDA's funding, information sources, and a personal health journey. It states that the FDA gets 47% of its funding from the pharmaceutical industry, and that this information was released only after a rumor claimed 50% of their funding came from big pharma. The speaker notes, “the people that you’re supposed to be making rules and regulations for are the same people that are paying you money,” describing this as a conflict of interest and urging readers to consider the implication of funding influencing regulatory decisions. The speaker then shifts to their personal experience with health issues and the challenge of finding valid information that isn’t paid for by big pharma. They share a statistic attributed to women with similar issues: “85 to ninety percent of the women who experience the same issues that I experience notice changes in their symptoms or alleviation completely from their symptoms simply by changing their diet, namely going gluten free.” Although the speaker says they personally are not inclined to adopt gluten-free changes, they are cutting out refined carbs and sugars from their diet and report progress: “I've been on this diet for two days now, and I already feel a ton different.” This personal anecdote is presented in the context of comparing diet-driven symptom changes to pharmaceutical influence. The speaker mentions ongoing changes to their living space and routines as part of their broader stance. They say, “we're putting up our squat rack again in our home gym,” signaling a strengthening or lifestyle shift. They also report, “we did get some egg laying birds,” suggesting new household activities. Throughout, there is a reiterated sentiment directed at big pharma: “basically saying a big to big pharma,” underscoring their stance against pharmaceutical influence. Finally, the speaker emphasizes the surprising nature of the 47% funding figure and reiterates, “I still can't believe it's 47% of their funding, and they think that's okay.” They invite audience engagement, closing with, “as always, I look forward to hearing your thoughts about all of this down below.”

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The government funded gain of function research from 2014 to '16, but it continued in Wuhan without approval from the committee. In 2017, the funding was resumed, but the Wuhan research was not reviewed by the committee. When questioned, Fauci claimed that his experts said it wasn't gain of function, but there was no discussion or paperwork. The person in charge of the safety committee only reviewed three studies in four years, and this research was exempted from their scrutiny. It could only have been done with Fauci's permission. We haven't found the paperwork yet, but it's likely that Fauci allowed the research in Wuhan without the safety committee's oversight.

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Secretary Kennedy has achieved a major victory, effectively silencing many critics. While not a complete ban on mRNA, the government, through BARDA, will cease investing in these technologies. Additionally, their global health investment corporation partner is advised to halt all equity investments in modified RNA technologies. The expectation is that without government funding, these technologies will diminish. This development is considered a bombshell with worldwide repercussions.

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The discussion centers on gain-of-function (GoF) research, its regulation, and the motivations behind it. The first speaker notes the administration’s goal to end GoF research and asks where that stands. The second speaker says progress has been made, and the White House is working on a formal policy. He then defines the issue in stages: what GoF research is, why someone would do it, and how to regulate it to prevent dangerous projects that could catastrophically harm human populations. He clarifies that GoF research is not inherently bad, but dangerous GoF research is. He gives an insulin example: creating bacteria to produce insulin is a legitimate GoF that benefits diabetics. In contrast, taking a virus from bat caves, bringing it to a lab in a densely populated city with weak biosafety, and manipulating it to be more transmissible among humans is a dangerous GoF that should not be supported. The administration’s policy aims to prevent such dangerous work entirely, and the President signed an executive order in April or May endorsing this policy. Next, he discusses implementation: how to create incentives to ensure this research does not recur. He explains that the utopian idea behind such research was to prevent all pandemics by collecting viruses from wild places, testing their potential to infect humans by increasing their pathogenicity, and then preparing countermeasures in advance (vaccines, antivirals) and stockpiling them, even though those countermeasures would not have been tested against humans yet. If a virus did leap to humans, the foreseen countermeasures might prove ineffective because evolution is unpredictable. This “triage” approach—identifying pathogens most likely to leap and preemptively preparing against them—was the rationale for dangerous GoF work, a rationale he characterizes as flawed. He notes that many scientists considered this an effort to do bioweapons research under the guise of safety and defense. The work is dual-use. The U.S. is a signatory to the Biological Weapons Convention and does not conduct offensive bio-weapons research, but other countries might. The discussion highlights that the GoF research discussed during the pandemic can backfire and may not align with true biodefense, since countermeasures might not match whatever pathogen actually emerges. The speaker concludes that this agenda—pursuing GoF to prevent pandemics—has drawn substantial support from parts of the Western world and other countries for about two and a half decades, but he implies it is not deserving of continuation.

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The perception, not reality, leads to the killing of bio-threat defense projects. 50% of allies believe the US has an offensive bioweapons program, which is false. Since Nixon, there has been no such program. Developing countermeasures against bio-threats can be mistaken for an offensive program, causing public and political concerns. The information will be published in Science and Nature soon.

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Government regulators are influenced by big pharma, with FDA employees receiving royalties from approved vaccines and drugs. FDA's budget heavily relies on pharmaceutical industries, leading to agency capture. For instance, NIH owns half of the Moderna vaccine, with high-level deputies under Fauci receiving $150,000 annually from it indefinitely. This conflict of interest is not widely discussed in mainstream media, as speaking out can lead to censorship.

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Universities, health organizations, and other institutions are in need of funding, while big multinational corporations have the money to provide it. These corporations use their financial influence to gain control. They give grants for research, collaborate on projects, and pay individual professors, doctors, and researchers. They may also fund educational programs that align with their interests. Although these arrangements are supposed to be independent, it is clear that corporations prioritize supporting their own products. If organizations do not comply, they risk losing funding. This financial influence is how the medical establishment is swayed.

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In 2014, a gain of function moratorium was implemented in the US due to lab accidents. Despite this, gain of function research continued in China with funding from Dr. Fauci. The NIH lifted the moratorium in 2017 without proper consultation. There are concerns that US-funded research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology may have led to the COVID-19 pandemic. Dr. Ebright believes that lapses in oversight of this research could have caused the pandemic and may lead to future ones.

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American taxpayers fund basic and late-stage clinical research for the entire world, largely through the NIH. While Europe and private foundations contribute, the NIH is the single largest global investor in basic science and applied research. Higher U.S. drug prices also fund the phase three trials and R&D efforts conducted by drug companies. Therefore, American taxpayers are essentially the world's piggy bank for almost all of the research pipeline.

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Speaker 0 describes a sweeping shift in the industrial and military landscape driven by the technological revolution of recent decades. In this new era, research has moved to the center of national advancement, becoming more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share of research is conducted for, by, or at the direction of the Federal Government. The traditional lone inventor working in a shop has been largely eclipsed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. As the free university—a historic fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery—experiences its own revolution in how research is conducted, government funding and contracts increasingly shape inquiry. Partly because of the enormous costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. Where once old blackboards sufficed for contemplation and experimentation, now hundreds of new electronic computers occupy the space, symbolizing the new scale and tools of research. The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present, and it is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in acknowledging the importance of holding scientific research and discovery in respect, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific technological elite. The central challenge is to prevent policy from being subordinated to narrow technical interests while preserving the integrity and vitality of scientific inquiry. The speech emphasizes that it is the task of statesmanship to mold, balance, and integrate these evolving forces—new and old—within the principles of a democratic system. This balancing act should be oriented toward the supreme goals of a free society, ensuring that technological and scientific advances serve broad public purposes rather than becoming ends in themselves. The overarching message is a call to thoughtfully manage the profound changes in how research is funded, organized, and directed, so that the benefits of the technological revolution support democratic ideals and societal well-being rather than concentrating power or constraining intellectual exploration.

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Secretary Kennedy has achieved a significant victory, effectively silencing many critics. While not a ban on mRNA, the government, through BARDA, will cease investing in these technologies. Additionally, their global health investment corporation partner is advised to halt all equity investments in modified RNA technologies. The expectation is that without funding, these technologies will diminish. This development is considered a bombshell with worldwide repercussions.

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The technological revolution has brought significant changes to our industrial and military landscape. Research has become more formalized, complex, and expensive, with a growing portion being funded by the government. The traditional image of a solitary inventor has been replaced by teams of scientists in labs and testing fields. Similarly, universities have also undergone a research revolution, with government contracts often replacing intellectual curiosity due to the high costs involved. While we should respect and value scientific research, we must also be cautious of the potential for public policy to be influenced by a scientific elite. It is the responsibility of statesmanship to balance and integrate these forces within our democratic system, always striving for the goals of our free society.

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The speakers discuss the framing of risk and benefit in scientific research, emphasizing the need for more clarity in defining these terms. They also touch on the issue of self-censorship among scientists due to funding uncertainties. The conversation highlights the importance of foundational research despite potential lack of immediate benefits. Additionally, they address the need for more transparency in discussions surrounding risk and benefit in research proposals.

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Did USAID fund coronavirus research in Wuhan, China? We did not fund gain of function research. The PREDICT program, which ended in 2019, did have grants that may have gone to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. I have requested records from the PREDICT program to understand the funding and research conducted, but USAID has not provided these documents. Despite multiple requests and a letter from 25 senators, we have received no information. We want to know about any grants related to coronaviruses, especially those that could have led to COVID-19. The lack of transparency raises suspicions about what information is being withheld. We seek clarity on all research proposals related to coronaviruses funded by the U.S. government.

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"this is a massive win for Secretary Kennedy and basically a silencing of many of the critics." "It's not a ban on mRNA like many people would like to see." "However, it is the wind down of the government investing through BARDA in these technologies." "and their global health investment corporation partner is advised to stop all equity investments in modified RNA technologies." "So follow the money." "When the money isn't there, these are going to fizzle." "This is a bombshell." "The repercussions are going to be felt worldwide." "There will be backlash." "It's not for human use." "This de investment in these 22 projects, it's just the beginning."

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NIH funded research at Wuhan Institute of Virology through ECHO Health, including gain of function research. This type of research is common in labs nationwide and is not regulated because it is deemed harmless.

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Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss the politicization of science and changes at the NIH. Over the last fifteen to twenty years, the NIH incorporated what Speaker 1 characterizes as political agendas rather than scientific agendas into its portfolio, with DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) being the most prominent example. A chunk of NIH funding went to projects focused on achieving social objectives rather than the health mission. Every NIH employee allegedly had to write a loyalty oath to DEI principles and was evaluated on devotion to the cause. Researchers inside and outside the NIH could access funds, with outside researchers more easily securing money if they promised to conduct DEI research, according to Speaker 1. Much of that research allegedly lacked a real scientific basis and was not science. Speaker 1 provides an example of projects they worked to deprioritize: a project asking whether structural racism is the root reason why African Americans have worse hypertension outcomes. The problem, they say, is that there is no way to test the hypothesis because, if structural racism is the cause, there is no workable control group to test the idea as true. They assert that such research did not translate into better health for anybody, including minority populations. They describe these projects as political agendas that do not belong in a science agency. The stated mission is to improve the health of everybody, including minority populations, but only if projects are clearly scientific, well defined, and have a real chance of improving health. Speaker 0 asks for clarification, summarizing that there were ideological or political projects receiving NIH funding. Speaker 1 confirms and adds another practice: when a good science project ended the year with leftover funds, program officers would approach researchers with leftover money and offer a “diversity supplement”—an add-on tied to DEI that was not actual science—to obtain extra funding. This, they claim, was a waste of taxpayer money with no real health benefit. They say they have since gotten rid of all of that.

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The speaker claims research funding has not been cut, but indirect funding to institutions has been targeted. According to the speaker, the administration wants to cut indirect funding, meaning more money goes to researchers. The speaker says the guidance from Bobby Kennedy and the Trump administration empowers frontline researchers and disempowers government bureaucrats. The speaker states that more money will flow to researchers, not university or government bureaucrats, and no services have been cut. The speaker says there's an attack on bureaucracy, citing Harvard getting $0.70 on the dollar for bureaucracy, not research. Cutting indirect costs gets more money to researchers. The speaker claims the administration is focused on empowering researchers, getting money to scientists, and asking them to do bold research on why people are getting sick.

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Speaker 0 asked if research beyond HHS-funded work is included in the review process. Speaker 1 mentioned that currently, it focuses on HHS-funded work. Speaker 0 inquired about expanding the scope to include agencies like DARPA. Speaker 1 explained that such agencies typically don't engage in the type of work being reviewed, but suggested a further discussion offline.

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This process only applies to federally funded research, not university funded research. Vulnerabilities in university research may be outside our scope, but they are a reality.

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176 drugs that were considered safe and effective, but now are off the market because they found they were quite dangerous. Accutane, they took it off the market because they found it creates liver damage after twenty seven years. Hey, these things were backed by science. But I think the worst of the worst is that industry is allowed to cherry pick their data and not have to publish the studies that don't align with what they want. So the main question is who is funding the study, which many times gives grants to universities. And then you have industry, which then also funds the universities. And then we allow industry to pay certain individuals who sit on boards and committees that regulate a lot of the guidelines in our health care. Unfortunately, what we're missing in science is this thing called ethics.

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My understanding of the PC30 framework is that it focuses on a small number of viruses with both pathogenicity and transmissibility. However, there are discrepancies in the criteria used, leading to unintended studies being included. More refinement may be needed to ensure accurate submissions. The definition on paper may not always align with real-world practices.

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Secretary Kennedy has achieved a significant victory, effectively silencing many critics. While not a ban on mRNA, the government, through BARDA, will cease investing in these technologies. Additionally, their global health investment corporation partner is advised to halt all equity investments in modified RNA technologies. The expectation is that without funding, these technologies will diminish. This development is considered a bombshell with worldwide repercussions.

Unlimited Hangout

Framing Surveillance and Eugenics as “Healthcare” with Johnny Vedmore

Guests: Johnny Vedmore

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Whitney Webb and Johnny Vedmore discuss how elite institutions that steered COVID-19 policies are moving to shape a post-COVID world, focusing on Welcome Leap and the Trinity Challenge, and tracing their ties to the Wellcome Trust, the Gates Foundation, DARPA, and Silicon Valley. They note Welcome Leap’s deep links to the Wellcome Trust, which was involved with the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine, and highlight a framework in which philanthropy blends with biotech and for‑profit entities. They quote a Sunday Times profile describing Wellcome as a vehicle where “what Henry Welcom set out was a double edged scheme to run a business and a charity together. The flagship would be a philanthropic body, now the Wellcome Trust, enjoying the image and tax benefits of magnanimous public spirited generosity. But behind this would operate, industrial organizations and, straight up and down for profit corporations.” They ask who holds more sway over public policy—Bill Gates or the Wellcome Trust?—noting overlap between Gates Foundation and Wellcome Trust in the developing world. They discuss Welcome Leap’s leadership: Regina Dugan, who began at DARPA in 1996, leading a program that won awards for identifying land mines, then headed a counterism task force, and later created a defense‑focused tech firm Red X Defense that contracted with the military. Dugan “greenlighted DARPA's investment in mRNA vaccine technology” and, after leaving DARPA, was recruited by Google to lead Building 8, with projects including “digital tattoo” and “digital authentication pill,” and a focus on neural wearables and transhumanist aims. Dugan’s association with the Clinton Global Initiative and Bilderberg, and her role in Google’s DARPA‑like efforts, are cited as part of a broader transhumanist trajectory. Ken Gabriel, COO of Welcome Leap, is described as a DARPA veteran who led MEMS research, worked with both the FBI and CIA, and later joined Draper Labs before becoming involved with the Wellcome Trust; he sits on the Galvani Bioelectronics board, linking GlaxoSmithKline, Google, and Verily. Jay Flatley, Illumina’s longtime chief, is highlighted as a genomics power broker tied to the World Economic Forum and a push to gene‑tested populations from birth to grave. The four Welcome Leap programs are introduced. HOPE stands for human organs, physiology, and engineering, with aims to grow and translate organ systems that “will have a functional immune system,” potentially replacing animal trials and advancing bioengineering for transplantable organs and synthetic hybrid organs. The second program, the “first thousand days,” targets infants from three months to three years, outlining “wearables, constant twenty four seven surveillance of children,” including respiratory rate, heart rate, eye tracking, and ambient data to build an “in silico” AI model of a child’s brain, with the goal of having “eighty percent of children” matched to the synthetic model within ten years. The third program, Delta Tissue, is described as precision medicine to map cells and tissues for cancer prediction and prevention, potentially enabling AI‑driven interventions. The fourth, Multi Channel Psych, aims to study “anhedonia” and to develop brain stimulation interventions to shape behavior, including mood quantification, and to create scalable measurement tools via wearables that monitor mood, sleep, social interactions, and reward processing. They turn to the Trinity Challenge, chaired by Dame Sally Davies, with founding members including the University of Hong Kong, Cambridge, Northeastern, Imperial College London, and corporations such as Microsoft, Facebook, Google, GlaxoSmithKline, and McKinsey, plus the Gates Foundation, Tencent, Aviva, and a Global Virome Project linked to EcoHealth Alliance and USAID. The grand prize went to POD (participatory one health disease detection) led by Open Dream in Thailand, with Matt Parker connected to Salesforce; Jane Sexbot (a child sex‑education chatbot) was another project. Founding members include the Skull Global Threats Fund, tied to Jeffrey Skoll, and its leadership connected to Google, Salesforce, the WEF, and CFR, underscoring the convergence of tech, pharma, and policy elites in shaping surveillance, data analytics, and predictive health, framed as preventing pandemics but described as moving toward surveillance, eugenics, and transhumanism. They warn that post‑COVID agendas are being advanced behind distractions about variants, urging pushback and accountability.

The Rich Roll Podcast

The Nutrition Lies We All Fell For

Guests: Dr. Jessica Knurick

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Public health is defined as the systems that enable healthy lives—clean water, clean air, safe food, and the infrastructure behind daily choices. The conversation centers on social determinants of health: income inequality, the built environment, food access, education, and safety nets, with massive disparities: the highest versus lowest income brackets show a 15-year life gap for men and a 10-year gap for women; people in the lowest income bracket report five times worse health outcomes and higher diabetes rates. To improve national health, policy must address these systemic factors rather than focusing only on individual behavior. Maha is described as having captured a broad concern about chronic disease and the food environment. Roll notes Maha correctly identifies problems—lifestyle-related disease, the nearly 70% ultra-processed food, and corporate influence on policy. Knurick adds that while Maha’s diagnoses are partly true, its causal claims and solutions are misdirected. Emphasizing food dyes or seed oils diverts attention from foundational reforms: deregulation, subsidies that favor corn, wheat, and soy, and an erosion of public-health infrastructure through budget cuts. The result is a distraction from the big reforms needed to lift population health. Trust in institutions has fractured, partly due to pandemic communications, paywalls, and public-health messaging that stayed out of accessible channels. Scientists should speak plainly and meet people where they are. The FDA’s funding structure is explained as the product of 1990s user fees, designed to expedite drug reviews, not a simple corruption tale. The fees come from pharmaceutical companies; public funding remains essential, and stronger federal support would reduce private influence. Greater transparency and replication in science are urged to protect integrity. The discussion covers private funding, disclosures, and the prevalence of industry sponsorship. Scientific consensus rests on replication and meta-analyses, not cherry-picked single studies. Caution is urged regarding AI-generated citations or hallucinations in reports that can mislead the public. Seed oils are described as not proven harmful by nutrition science, though they appear in cheap ultra-processed foods; Europe’s precautionary stance differs in regulatory traditions, but the core public-health agenda should address the food system, subsidies, and the built environment. Policy ideas focus on campaign-finance reform to curb corporate influence and on broad public-health investments: expanding access to healthy foods for food-insecure households, reorienting subsidies toward diverse crops, rebuilding local food systems, improving walkability and school nutrition, and ensuring preventive care. The Big Beautiful Bill, Knurick argues, would cut Medicaid and SNAP, widening inequality and harming health outcomes. The exchange ends with a call to restore trust through transparent communication and steady attention to core determinants of health.