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In the a6 India podcast, historian Yuval Harari discusses the evolution of technology and its impact on humanity. He emphasizes that technology has allowed humans to bypass evolutionary adaptations, shifting focus from altering the external world to changing our internal selves. Harari predicts that the 21st century will see the emergence of inorganic life forms, marking a revolutionary change in the history of life. He argues that shared illusions have historically unified societies, but advancements in technology may lead to a breakdown of individualism, as external entities could understand us better than we understand ourselves. Harari warns that rising inequality, exacerbated by AI and biotechnology, could translate economic disparities into biological ones. He raises concerns about the meaning of life in a future where jobs may diminish, suggesting people might seek fulfillment in virtual realities. He concludes that technology is not deterministic; it can shape various political and social systems. The future remains malleable, and humanity has the power to influence the direction of technological progress.

Trust may be the quiet hinge on which humanity’s future with AI will swing. In this conversation, Harari warns that a deficit of trust makes us vulnerable to powerful AI and could invite a dangerous intelligence that seeks to take the world from us. He reflects on consciousness, defining it as the capacity to suffer and to feel joy, and asks what it would mean for AI to reject reality. Current AI, he argues, cannot suffer, but the evolution of machines may raise profound questions about their awareness and alignment with human values. He shares a personal riff on technology, noting he once avoided smartphones and now uses one sparingly, wary of its influence. Harari maps the arc of civilization through shared stories, from writing to the digital age. He considers AI the most consequential invention after writing, with potential to create a new species that could challenge Homo sapiens as the dominant intelligence on Earth. Yet in 2025, writing remains more significant, because AI is a continuation of writing by other means. He cautions that the speed of cognitive disruption may outpace humanity’s ability to adapt, producing a possible “useless class” unless society deploys self-correcting mechanisms—institutions that identify and rectify mistakes through elections, courts, and independent media. He warns the industrial revolution’s upheavals showed how speed, not aim, determines outcomes, and fears a C-minus trajectory for AI governance. On the path forward, the dialogue stresses trust-building as a practical project. He calls for self-correcting systems with real-time feedback and international cooperation, even as leaders hesitate to slow development. One practical avenue is shaping technology to reduce distrust; he cites Taiwan’s social-media approach to encourage cross-group dialogue as a hopeful example of how algorithms can foster trust rather than deepen divides. He emphasizes moving beyond cynicism about human motives, arguing that a future AI developed in a trusted, compassionate society would be more likely to act benevolently. The conversation closes with a hopeful note: if trust is rebuilt, humanity can marshal resources to build the best society in history.

Whitney Webb and Johnny Vedmore introduce the first episode of Dump Devos, focusing on a special Davos 2020 presentation by Yuval Noah Harari. Vedmore frames Harari as a prominent, polished voice whose audience is the World Economic Forum’s elite; Webb notes Harari’s influence among Obama, Zuckerberg, and other power brokers, and that the core audience for the speech is “the people at Davos, the leaders assembled there.” The session is introduced by Aretha Gadish (Aretha Gadish in transcript), chair of Bain & Company, who cites Martin Rees’s warning about existential threats and opens with Harari and Marc Rutte, the Netherlands’ prime minister, as participants. Harari’s core message centers on three existential challenges, with a focus on the third: “the power to hack human beings” and the threat of “digital dictatorships.” He states, “The three existential challenges are nuclear war, ecological collapse and technological disruption,” and he emphasizes that technology might disrupt human society and the very meaning of human life, ranging from a global useless class to the rise of data colonialism and of digital dictatorships. He presents a defining equation: “B times C times D equals R,” meaning biological knowledge multiplied by computing power multiplied by data equals the ability to hack humans. He asserts, “We are hackable animals.” He cautions that the AI revolution could produce “unprecedented inequality not just between classes but also between countries.” Harari warns that automation will soon eliminate “millions upon millions of jobs,” insisting the struggle will be “against irrelevance,” not merely exploitation. He notes that a 50-year-old truck driver who loses work to a self-driving vehicle would need to reinvent himself as a software engineer or yoga teacher, and emphasizes this as evidence that “the struggle will be against irrelevance.” He adds that “The worse to be irrelevant than to be exploited” is a line Webb highlights as a hinge toward a future of “useless” versus “exploited” classes, with the latter defined by an economic-political system that is increasingly automated and data-driven. Harari expands on “the useless class” and “data colonialism,” arguing the AI revolution will create wealth in a few high-tech hubs while others become “data colonies.” Webb notes that data colonialism is already advancing in the COVID era, with biometric IDs and digital wallets piloted in developing countries, creating a tech infrastructure deployed first where it can most easily be tested. Harari reframes this as a global risk to political sovereignty, warning that “once you have enough data, you don’t need to send soldiers” to control a country. He then outlines a future in which AI-powered systems and predictive algorithms govern many decisions, including work, loans, and even personal relationships. He asserts, “In the coming decades, AI and biotechnology will give us godlike abilities to re engineer life,” but cautions these powers could produce “a race of humans who are very intelligent, but lack compassion, lack autistic sensitivity, and lack spiritual depth.” He states that “the higher you are in the hierarchy, the more closely you will be watched,” and describes a scenario in which “biometric bracelets” monitor people’s physiological states, with the elite secure and insulated, while the mass is surveilled and controlled. Harari’s proposed remedy is global cooperation: “This is not a prophecy. These are just possibilities. Technology is never deterministic. In the twentieth century, people used industrial technology to build very different kinds of societies… The same thing will happen in the twenty first century.” He insists that “global cooperation” is necessary to regulate AI, biotech, and ecological threats, warning that without it, the world risks collapse and a return to a new jungle. He argues a national solution alone is insufficient: “no nation can regulate AI and bioengineering by itself,” and that “the loser will be humanity.” The panel ends with Harari’s metaphor: the global order is now “like a house that everybody inhabits and nobody repairs.” He warns that if the system collapses, “we will find ourselves back in the jungle of omnipresent war,” with the rats potentially rebuilding civilization if leaders fail. Gadish’s postscript adds a blunt acknowledgment of the stakes and the need to avoid “the rats” prevailing, underscoring the elite’s imminent responsibility to shape a planned global framework rather than risk a chaotic resurgence of old power struggles.