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Last weekend, I was at a very expensive ski resort in the Alps, filled with wealthy Ukrainians spending lavishly. This is happening all over Europe. This money, I believe, should be ours—American taxpayer money. Furthermore, I know that a significant portion, up to half, of the arms we send to the Ukrainian military is being sold off, a lot of it ending up in the hands of drug cartels at our border. This is criminal. Our intelligence agencies are aware of this, and I believe they are profiting from it. Billions of dollars in aid are being stolen and sold to our enemies. This is unacceptable, and no one in America seems to know about it.

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In 1994, the Federal Reserve deepened ties with the Bank of International Settlements. A year later, a large pension fund began moving money out of the country. Simultaneously, billions began disappearing from HUD and the Department of Defense, totaling $21 trillion between 1998 and 2015. Around the same time, we saw the rise of OxyContin and predatory lending, targeting low-income neighborhoods. Leading up to 9/11, a reporter was covering the missing money, but on 9/10, Rumsfeld announced $2.3 trillion was missing. After 9/11, the Patriot Act passed, and the missing money issue faded. In 2015, $6.5 trillion went missing in one year. Dr. Skidmore's research revealed the missing money matched the US national debt. Despite pressure, the DOD refused audits. Then, FASB 56 allowed the government to keep secret books, enabling unlimited secret funding, which I believe facilitated events like the COVID-19 operations.

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Speaker 0 asks for examples of how taxpayer dollars are funding transnational fraud rings, terrorist organizations, and adversarial nations like North Korea, China, Nigeria, Iran, Romania, and Russia. Speaker 1 states that during the pandemic, one trillion dollars was stolen, with 70% going overseas. In one Western state, unemployment insurance applications exceeded the number of adults. Romanian criminals used stolen funds to facilitate fraud schemes involving fentanyl and attempts to impact democracy. While most public servants are honest, data and technology are needed to identify insider threats. Recent examples include a $50 million Medicaid theft in a Western state within four months. These thefts are attributed to organized criminal groups, both domestic and transnational.

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The speaker asked Chat GPT how much money the Pentagon had unaccounted for in its last audit. Chat GPT initially stated the Pentagon had about $220 billion in assets. The speaker thought the figure was closer to $1.5 trillion and corrected Chat GPT. Chat GPT responded that the speaker was correct and that in its most recent audit, the Pentagon could not account for $1.5 trillion in assets. The speaker then prompted Chat GPT to put $1.5 trillion into perspective. Chat GPT stated that if you spent $1 million every day since the birth of Christ, you still would not have spent $1.5 trillion, and it would take over 4,100 years to reach that amount. The speaker emphasizes that $1.5 trillion is just the amount of money that is unaccounted for.

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Speaker 0 raises the question of CIA involvement in drug trafficking, referencing a past discussion with former Tel Aviv CIA chief of station Susan Miller and noting a reminder about Iran-Contra. They ask why the CIA would be intimately involved with drug trafficking, and mention Candace Owens discussing it in relation to the Charlie Kirk assassination. Speaker 1 answers that trafficking in drugs allows the CIA to get closer to the targets they want to reach. They point to a popular Netflix series, Narcos, which follows the hunt for Pablo Escobar, the Cali cartel, and other major cartels. They claim that, in the show, and in real life, every time the Drug Enforcement Administration gets close to its primary target, the CIA station chief steps in and ruins the investigation. They state that this happens because the CIA doesn’t care about drugs. Speaker 1 continues that the CIA cares about terrorism and communism, implying there are always some other bigger ideological concerns. Therefore, the CIA is “perfectly happy” to allow cocaine to flood into the United States in the 1980s during the Iran-Contra period, just as it was “perfectly happy” to allow Afghanistan to provide 93% of the world’s heroin once the United States began its occupation of Afghanistan.

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- Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss the possibility that a friend was murdered and suggest that both victims died suddenly from fast-moving cancer, a method they say the agency uses overseas to eliminate people. Speaker 1 admits he cannot prove this but notes the sudden deaths. - The conversation asserts that the US government has technology to infect people with fast-moving cancer and to perform cognitive and directed-energy warfare. Speaker 0 states the government has the technology to infect with fast-moving cancer and to do so absolutely. - In 1997, Speaker 1 describes a hearing on asymmetric threats where he chaired the research committee and focused on four threats: drones, cyberattacks, electromagnetic pulse (EMP), and cognitive warfare. He asserts that cognitive warfare is now being labeled by some as Havana syndrome and that directed-energy weapons are the underlying technology. - Speaker 2 recounts a recent homeland security hearing about foreign adversaries using direct weapons against US citizens, enabling incapacitation. He emphasizes the chilling nature of the briefing and criticizes current domestic leadership as foolish, corrupt, incompetent, and wicked. - Speaker 3 notes that up to 40% of the Air Force equipment budget in the 1990s was classified, making much of it “black.” He emphasizes that military and security research often precedes civilian medical science, and that servicemen were used in experiments without fully informed consent, referencing NK Ultra-era disclosures of thousands of service members used as subjects. - Speaker 4 discusses MKUltra, describing a Canadian experiment involving psychic driving with massive LSD doses, eye-tracking, and memory loss, funded by MKUltra and affecting civilians. He mentions Project Midnight Climax, where Johns were observed in brothels while subjected to LSD, and notes similar experiments by the British Royal Air Force and Army. The results of Midnight Climax are unknown, with no published after-action reports. - Speaker 3 adds that Secretary of Energy O’Leary stated under Clinton that over a half a million Americans had been used in human experiments over four decades without informed consent, including mind control, with no accountability. He argues that mind-control technology has advanced, and questions who should govern its use, given the lack of legal frameworks. - The discussion covers mind-effects research and the lack of treaties governing such technologies. They reference a European Parliament security and disarmament resolution (1999) addressing mind-effects and mind-control technology, and Russian Duma resolutions (2002) seeking similar safeguards. Zabigniew Brzezinski’s Between Two Ages is cited regarding electronically stroking the ionosphere to influence behavior over geographic areas, connecting it to HARP and other electromagnetic carriers capable of mass or individual influence. - Speaker 6 explains historical demonstrations of electronic mind control, starting with Jose Delgado’s remote manipulation of a charging bull using radio energy and electrodes, and notes later work showing noninvasive techniques to influence behavior using low-power magnetic fields. Speaker 7 reiterates Delgado’s animal studies and the potential for noninvasive methods to affect emotions and memory, with broader implications for humans. - Speaker 3 discusses the progression of research funded by DARPA and others toward higher-resolution control of brain activity, enabling controlled effects that override senses and create synthetic memories, raising questions about future justice and evidence. They describe European Parliament and NATO/US military interest in mind-control technologies and the absence of robust legal protections. - Speaker 9 presents advances in AI-enabled brain-reading and memory-altering devices, including mind-reading and emotion decoding, while Speaker 10 and Speaker 12 discuss privacy concerns, brain-data privacy laws (Colorado’s law adding brain data to privacy protections), and the availability of consumer devices that decode brainwaves. They warn that brain data can be misused by insurers, law enforcement, advertisers, and governments, with private companies often sharing data without clear disclosure. - The segment concludes with a note that devices can infer attention and thoughts, and that DARPA’s N3D program aims for noninvasive neuromodulation with implantable electrodes read/write capabilities. It references 1980s–1990s discussions of RF energy as a potential nonlethal mind-control technology, and a 1993 Johns Hopkins conference listing low-frequency weapons as attractive options.

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"The Trump administration is is taking this very seriously, and they're not playing any game." "the seizure of these precursor chemicals, I believe it was 600,000 kilograms of precursors" "going after the cash here in America. Like, that you said that would cut off their lifeblood because they literally shipped cash back to Mexico in 18 wheelers." "We exported back close to $3,000,000,000 of bulk U. S. Currency." "18 wheelers, tractor trailers, commercial vehicles. And there is no seizures in the ten years. None." "That's their lifeline." "The market will be indicator of what's actually going on. And for right now, the market's indicating that there's still a lot of supply." "The Mexican people will be happy to get help going against these criminal organizations."

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The speaker describes a pattern involving Somali couriers at the Minneapolis airport who arrive almost daily with a large amount of cash—“a million 600,000 in cash and a luggage.” This activity is presented as suspicious, with daily occurrences and shipments moving about $350,000,000 a year in cash in their luggage out of Minneapolis Airport and then predominantly overseas. The speaker notes one observed route: when TSA saw the money move, it went from Minneapolis to Europe, Europe to Dubai, often passing through Amsterdam. This money flow was flagged for years by TSA. According to the speaker, the payments were repeatedly flagged over an extended period. The scale of the activity is described as increasing. The money moves were said to have grown from $2,030,000,000 dollars a year to $350,000,000 a year in the last two years, 2024 and 2025. The speaker characterizes the operation as “literally a foreign ATM taking cash out of The United States to foreign destinations,” and states that the reason for this is unknown. The activity is stated to be under investigation by the FBI and Homeland Security Investigations (HSI). The speaker ends by noting that people question whether this is normal, given the ongoing investigation and the unusual disposition of cash moving internationally in this manner.

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The speaker discusses a conspiracy involving the US government and NGOs bringing illegal immigrants into the country. A DHS employee reveals how NGOs receive millions of dollars to facilitate this operation. The employee mentions Jewish Family Services receiving $600 million for a few months, with subcontractors requesting more funds. The partnership between NGOs and the government is described as a massive money laundering scheme.

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At a conference with high-level police and criminal intelligence officials, a very senior Canadian criminal intelligence official said Canadians have no idea how embedded the car Mexican cartels are in Canada. He described the cartels as billion dollar brutal terrorist organizations that work hand in glove with the CCP, who supply them precursors and launder their money around the world. He added that Chinese crime not only leaves lab production and gangsterism to the cartels, they've got their teams on shoulder to shoulder with the cartels as well, and that the CCP is at the top of the show. The official told the crowd that cartels are a billion dollar a day operation, extremely embedded worldwide and in Canada, thriving through corruption. He asked, 'So, are the cartels directly corrupting Canadian officials? I'm sure they are. There's no question.'

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The speaker was asked if there is evidence that Maxine Waters, Adam Schiff, and Chuck Schumer have received money directly from USAID. The speaker responded that taxpayer money is sent to government organizations, then to NGOs, which are government-funded but not governed by U.S. laws. Money is sent overseas to NGOs and the speaker is confident that some of it returns to the U.S. and ends up with the aforementioned politicians. The speaker states that it's not a direct route, but that some members of Congress are strangely wealthy, accumulating millions while earning significantly less annually, which is unexplainable. The speaker says they are going to try to figure it out and stop it from happening.

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All illicit wealth tracked, $100 trillion from Main Street via naked short selling. Wall Street laundered $100 trillion from trafficking in children, women, drugs, guns, gold. 90% in US government, military, intelligence good people in bad system. Secret intelligence serves deep state, not American public. CIA involved in torture, rendition, drone assassination, regime change. War, trafficking profit center for Wall Street, deep state. NSA has all data, control. Truth and reconciliation: make deal or face consequences.

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Speaker 0 says that 85% of the international narcotrafficking annually, "the 85 por 100 de los 1000 de 1000 de 1000000," is in the banks of the United States, and that the cartel should be investigated to uncover money laundering. They mention looking at fiscal permission data from the vice president, stating that there are more than $500,000,000,000 (five hundred billion) dollars annually in US banks, in legal banks. If they want to investigate a cartel, they should investigate the cartel of the north, because from the United States it directs all narcotrafficking of South America and of the world, and also directs the trafficking of opioids, etc. The speaker concludes that in the United States are the mafias, the true cartels.

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Speaker 0 argues that Elon’s estimate of 20% of federal spending being part of a fraud camp could be higher, and when including state and local spending, the accounting suggests a sizable percentage of overall GDP is effectively theft through government agencies or checks. He predicts a “great uncovering” in 2026, with trillions of dollars of this behavior across the economy, and notes that on the other side, nothing will happen because the cost will be so significant it will feel like staring into the abyss. Speaker 1 asks how to differentiate between legal theft and illegal theft, noting that Somali daycares’ actions were outright fraud and illegal, while Stacey Abrams’s NGO receiving $2,000,000,000 late in the Biden administration is technically legal but clearly a different kind of theft and fraud. Speaker 0 responds with a test: “Would you throw up in your mouth when you heard the news? That’s the test. If you don’t pass the common sense vomit in the mouth test, it doesn’t matter whether it’s legal or illegal. It’s up. And you’ll realize that pretty quickly.”

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Grant and Mike Benz discuss alleged U.S. and CIA involvement in drug trafficking connected to Venezuela and the implications for prosecuting Nicolas Maduro. - Maduro indictment history: The DOJ superseded its 2020 drug trafficking indictment of Nicolas Maduro in 2025. The conversation references the Bay of Piglets failed operation to capture Maduro in 2019 and the 2020 indictment linked to Jordan Goudreaux’s Silvercorp private mercenary firm. The discussion frames this within a broader Cold War context of U.S. actions in Latin America. - CIA and drug trafficking link: The speakers claim the “Cartel of the Suns” (Cartel of the Suns) was a CIA cartel. They state two Venezuelan military brigadier generals who started the Cartel of the Suns were on the CIA payroll. They reference a 1993 confrontation where the head of the DEA resigned in protest after the CIA allegedly greenlit the deliberate importation of 1,500 kilos of cocaine from Venezuela into the U.S. They allege the CIA and DOJ later granted immunity to Venezuelan military officials involved in the operation. This is presented as pre-Hugo Chávez era activity in the 1990s. - Broader historical pattern: The discussion situates these actions within a long-running pattern across the 20th century—U.S. support for pro-American groups (insurgent, rebel, or militia-type entities) funded by drug proceeds. They compare this to past episodes in Afghanistan (Mujahideen, warlords) and to narcotics and intelligence collaborations in South America (Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Venezuela). The speakers draw a parallel to a Noriega-style “smash and grab,” noting Noriega’s trial revealed decades of CIA association and payroll. - Implications for Maduro prosecution: Mike Benz suggests the case could be complicated because many allegations about Maduro are “thinly sourced” and relate to minor Venezuelan officials rather than Maduro directly. He notes that many points of evidence are tangential and question whether Maduro’s leadership directly sanctioned drug operations, despite the indictment labeling him as head of the Cartel of the Suns multiple times. The Bush family connections and historic CIA involvement are mentioned to illustrate the complexity of attributing direct responsibility. - Stabilization and funding argument: Benz outlines a three-part stabilization plan for Venezuela—stabilization, privatization, and transition. He describes stabilization as “hearts and minds work,” which in practice involves paying off military, civil society, and business leaders with cash. He cites the CIA’s reported $70,000,000 in drug-money bribes used to influence such actors in stabilization campaigns in Afghanistan and analogous actions in Latin America. - Closing notes: Grant appreciates Benz’s insights and asks where to follow him. Benz directs listeners to X (Twitter) at @mikebencyber, and also mentions YouTube and Rumble. - Notable names: Nicolas Maduro, Jordan Goudreaux, the Silvercorp firm, the Cartel of the Suns, Noriega, the head of the DEA who resigned in 1993, and George H. W. Bush’s historical CIA involvement are referenced to frame claims.

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Speaker 0 asks about how common it is for the CIA to use drugs as a weapon or to create cartels for various purposes, and whether it sometimes works as a strategy. Speaker 1 responds that it continues to this day, with key US allies implicated in the drug trade. The Organization for Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project, funded by the State Department, is described as an investigative journalist outlet that has a new report about the Noboa family’s ties to the Balkan mafia. The Noboa family controls Ecuador; Daniel Noboa, born in Miami, is the president, and his family owns a Noboa shipping company. The shipping company is alleged to have been involved in sending bananas through the Noboa Bonita Fruit Company packed with cocaine to Europe via routes overseen by the Balkan Mafia. Ecuador is described as the largest drug export center to the United States, per the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, while Venezuela is claimed to be responsible for about 5% of drug transit. Kristi Noem, identified as the DHS secretary, is said to have visited Ecuador to meet with Daniel Noboa and campaign for a referendum to bring US military bases back to Ecuador, a referendum that was rejected by Ecuadorians. Noboa is portrayed as strategically valuable to the US, described as friendly with Marco Rubio, who has touted him as a partner in the war on drugs, yet the claim is made that the issue is about geostrategic interests. Noboa is said to have ended the legacy of social democrat Rafael Correa and is purportedly supporting US military bases on Ecuadorian soil, aligning with US interests even as Ecuador becomes a center of narco-trafficking and cartels destabilize parts of the country. In Mexico, the narrative references Vicente Fox and Felipe Calderón, noting Calderón as author of Plan Mérida, a US military-directed program to combat drugs in Mexico. Gennaro García Luna, head of Mexico’s equivalent of the FBI, is described as now in a US federal prison for life for involvement in a conspiracy with the Sinaloa cartel to ship drugs to the United States. The State Department is said to have acknowledged knowing about Luna’s activities while valuing him as a political partner. The Fast and Furious program is mentioned, alleging that the US armed Mexican cartels to track guns, and a 2011 federal court testimony by a Chapo Guzmán lieutenant claimed the US armed the Sinaloa cartel to defeat rivals like the Guadalajara cartel. A recent raid in Oakton, Northern Virginia, on Paul Campo, former director of the DEA’s financial division, is described. Campo was in charge of money laundering investigations and was associated with a CIA asset named Robert Sensi to launder $12,000,000 for the Jalisco New Generation Cartel. The speaker notes ongoing exploration of these connections. Historically, the CIA is said to have worked with narco cartels to fund black operations, funding proxy wars in Central America with off-the-books money. The Guadalajara cartel allegedly funded the Nicaraguan Contras through cartel profits. Enrique “Kiki” Camarena, a DEA agent, reportedly discovered the Guadalajara cartel’s involvement in black operations and was captured and tortured, with alleged monitoring by CIA operatives including Felix Rodríguez, who supervised the capture of Che Guevara. This is tied to a documentary on Amazon called The Last NARC.

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The National Security Agency has been tracking illicit wealth for 15 years. It is now known that Wall Street has stolen trillions of dollars through naked short selling and laundered money from illegal activities. The speaker believes that 90% of people in the US government and military are good but trapped in a corrupt system. The CIA is accused of torture, rendition, drone assassinations, and starting wars based on lies. The speaker claims that once the President processes all the information at the NSA, everyone will be exposed and they suggest making a deal through truth and reconciliation.

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Speaker 1 reveals that Bear Corporation knowingly sold medication infected with the AIDS virus. They pulled the product from the US market and dumped it in France, Europe, Asia, and Latin America to make a profit. Shockingly, no corporate executives have been indicted or investigated by the US Justice Department. The FDA allowed this to happen, resulting in the deaths of thousands of innocent hemophiliacs and their family members. The government is turning a blind eye to the situation.

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The speaker was asked if there is evidence that Maxine Waters, Adam Schiff, and Chuck Schumer have received money directly from USAID. The speaker responded that taxpayer money is sent to government organizations, then to NGOs, which are government-funded but not governed by U.S. laws. Money is sent overseas to NGOs and the speaker is confident that some of it returns to the U.S. and ends up with the aforementioned politicians. The speaker states that it's not a direct route, but that some members of Congress are strangely wealthy, accumulating millions while earning salaries of only around $200,000 per year. The speaker says they are going to try to figure it out and stop it from happening.

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The speaker mentions that the only true use case for something is related to criminals, drug traffickers, anti-money laundering, and tax avoidance. They repeatedly emphasize this point and mention the involvement of large corporate finance. The speaker also mentions the significant amount of money involved in these activities. Overall, the speaker highlights the connection between criminals, drug traffickers, anti-money laundering, and tax avoidance.

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Do you remember Sam Bankman-Fried? He was seen as a genius, so powerful and wealthy that he attended meetings with prominent figures like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair while looking disheveled. Where is he now? I believe he is in prison, as noted in a Netflix series. That's right, he’s a crook. And who was responsible for his downfall? The Department of Justice.

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Speaker 0 argues that deeply involved drug smuggling operations include providing airplanes for smugglers and that big bankers laundering money back into the system are crucial to the drug economy. He contends that if they were really interested in purging society from drugs, they could do it quickly by going after the bankers so they couldn’t profit from it anymore, then impeaching Bush and Jay Olim and a bunch of other people at that level, locking people up at that level, and then starting down, to dry the system up. He asserts that this is the big money and the big bucks, and that those at the top don’t like civil liberties and would rather have more control over people. Speaker 0 continues by alleging that the White House was involved, with Oliver North sending memos to Robert Owens indicating that these people were working or smuggling drugs, knowing about it, and giving protection, while Ed Meese provided protection and helped fend off investigations. He claims that George Bush, through Greg Rodriguez and others, was running and flying the drugs. He states that this makes a complete mockery of the administration’s war against drugs. He then questions the purpose of drug testing, arguing that they’re not interested in cleaning drugs out of society, and suggests that the testing is suspicious because it is a tremendously effective tool for population control. Speaker 1 adds that drug testing is a means of social control, and that this is another reason why drugs are tolerated in The U. S. and other capitalist countries, because it keeps people stoned, addicted to drugs, and not social rebels. Speaker 0 interjects with a brief continuation: “going.” Speaker 1 reiterates the idea that, between commercial television and widespread crack, you can erode the guts of society without question.

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The speaker asserts that the Jewish mob is the most dangerous and evil criminal outfit on Earth, claiming there is extensive Hollywood representation of evil Italian mobsters and Catholic Church figures who welcome and shield them, and stating that the Jewish mob is responsible for the worst human rights crime in the world: the white slavery trafficking of millions of young women. The speaker says this trafficking is dominated completely by Jews, not Italians, and that tens of millions of women have suffered degradation, drug addiction, physical abuse, or loss of life. A hypothetical scenario is used to illustrate the harm, imagining a daughter or sister subjected to such defilement. An article dated 01/11/1998 is cited from “our foundation” in Israel, recounting the experience of a 21-year-old woman from Ukraine who moved to Israel and was led to a brothel, where her passport was burned and she was told she would be worked until she earned her way out, with threats of arrest and the claim that she had no papers and didn’t speak Hebrew. A quoted Israeli white slave master named Jacob Golan is cited: “the women who work there, like nearly all prostitutes in Israel, are Russian. Their boss is not. Israelis love Russian girls,” and comments about blond Russian girls and a past relationship. The speaker imagines a headline such as “Jewish Slave Traders Lure European Women” and contrasts it with “Mafia Slave Traders Lure Women,” arguing Mafia would be Italian-centered. The speaker then shifts to political and financial crime, mentioning in America that the biggest thieves in history included Madoff, Michael Milken, Ervin Boskey, and Wall Street swindlers, who allegedly received punishments equal to stealing a pack of gum. Mark Rich is named for theft of hundreds of millions and a pardon while a fugitive. The speaker contends that Jewish influence in politics led to favorable outcomes for these figures, including pardons. In the twenty-first century, the speaker claims Bernie Madoff stole from the world and faced criticism mainly for stealing from fellow Jews, citing Forbes Magazine’s list of top Russian oligarchs as involved in murder, extortion, and embezzlement, who have been prosecuted but sheltered abroad by influential media and men. The speaker references Goldman Sachs, Mr. Blankfein and Mr. Kahn, and larger robberies of the Federal Reserve under Ben Bernanke and Janet Yellen. The Fed allegedly stole over 20 trillion dollars from the public and bailouts of international banks are described as crimes. The speaker attributes the promotion of drug abuse to Hollywood’s influence and accuses the Hollywood industry of enabling drug and alcohol abuse among “our people.” The speaker proclaims exposing media lies and promises deeper analysis, suggesting a small 5% effort can affect 90% of people. The audience is told why they may not have heard of “Wiki Meets cable” and why the same media censors information about alleged criminal leadership, while also accusing the ADL of criticizing the speaker. The speaker pledges to continue speaking and asks for financial support to fight for the future of listeners and their children.

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The National Security Agency has tracked all illicit wealth globally for 15 years. Wall Street has stolen $100 trillion from Main Street via naked short selling and laundered another $100 trillion in illicit funds from trafficking. Ninety percent of individuals in the US government, military, and intelligence community are good people within a flawed system. The secret intelligence community serves the deep state, not the American public. The CIA engages in torture, rendition, drone assassinations, regime change, and war instigation based on lies because war and trafficking are profit centers for Wall Street and the deep state. Once the president accesses NSA data, everyone involved will be exposed. The only way to survive is to make a deal through truth and reconciliation.

The Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #2395 - Mariana van Zeller
Guests: Mariana van Zeller
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In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan interviews Mariana van Zeller, an investigative journalist known for her work on black and gray markets. They discuss her career, including her show 'Trafficked,' which has ended its run on National Geographic due to the network's shift towards natural history programming. Van Zeller has launched a podcast called 'The Hidden Third,' focusing on the estimated 35% of the global economy that operates outside legal and regulated frameworks. This includes illegal activities like drug trafficking and unregulated, untaxed work, impacting public resources such as schools and hospitals. Van Zeller emphasizes the importance of understanding why individuals engage in illegal activities, often driven by circumstances and lack of opportunities. She shares a story about a young cocaine trafficker who wanted to become a dentist but couldn't afford education. The conversation delves into the scale of the drug trade, estimated at $600 billion annually, and the challenges of convincing people involved in illegal activities to participate in a podcast. She recounts experiences filming in dangerous locations, such as Sinaloa, Mexico, where she gained access to cartel operations through trusted contacts and filmed meth and fentanyl labs. The discussion shifts to counterfeit currency, with Van Zeller describing a counterfeiter's meticulous process of replicating US dollars in Peru. They also discuss how fake bills are distributed in the US, often through small businesses. The conversation touches on the US cartel presence, with strippers carrying drugs on commercial airlines from the west coast to the east coast. Van Zeller shares a story about 'El Gringo,' an American citizen involved with the cartel who contacted her because he wanted his story told if he were killed. The conversation then turns to potential solutions to the drug problem, with Rogan and Van Zeller discussing Portugal's decriminalization approach and its mixed results in Oregon. They explore the issue of rehab scams, particularly in Arizona and California, where fraudulent facilities exploit Native Americans' access to healthcare. The discussion covers 'tranq dope,' a dangerous mix of fentanyl and xylazine, and its devastating effects on users, including severe wounds and amputations. Van Zeller and Rogan discuss ibogaine as a potential treatment for addiction and PTSD, highlighting its success with veterans. The conversation shifts to the unintended consequences of marijuana legalization in California, where cartels exploit loopholes to grow and sell illegally. They also discuss the rise of militias in the US and the political polarization driving their existence. Van Zeller and Rogan criticize political tribalism and the spread of hate speech, advocating for nonviolence and empathy. They address the issue of immigration, with Van Zeller sharing stories of deported individuals and the impact on their families. They also discuss the economic contributions of undocumented immigrants and the need for immigration reform. The conversation touches on the opioid crisis, with Van Zeller recounting her investigation into the OxyContin Express and the Sackler family's role in the epidemic. They discuss the corruption within pharmaceutical companies and the FDA, highlighting the revolving door between regulatory agencies and the industry. The conversation shifts to the role of social media in spreading misinformation and hate speech, with Rogan and Van Zeller advocating for independent journalism and critical thinking. They discuss the use of AI in spreading propaganda and the challenges of navigating the information landscape. Van Zeller shares details about an upcoming project for National Geographic, where she investigates scams by participating in them. She recounts her investigation into scam factories in Asia, where individuals are forced into scamming. The conversation concludes with a discussion about pig butchering scams, where victims are lured into fake relationships and then defrauded of their money. Rogan and Van Zeller emphasize the importance of empathy and understanding the root causes of these issues in order to create meaningful change.
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