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Megyn Kelly hosts a discussion on transitioning and de-transitioning, featuring Walt Heyer and Grace Ladinsky-Smith, both of whom regret their transitions. Walt transitioned to Laura Jensen in his forties but de-transitioned after realizing he needed therapy for childhood trauma rather than surgery. He recounts how adverse childhood experiences, including emotional and sexual abuse, influenced his decision to transition. He emphasizes that many individuals who transition may be dealing with unresolved trauma rather than genuine gender dysphoria. Grace, who began questioning her gender in her twenties, underwent a double mastectomy and hormone therapy but later recognized her mistake. She describes her experience as being influenced by social media and a mental health crisis, leading her to believe that transitioning would resolve her issues. Both Walt and Grace face backlash from trans activists for sharing their stories, highlighting the societal pressure to affirm transitions without exploring underlying psychological issues. The conversation shifts to the medical perspective, with Dr. Julia Mason and Dr. Erica Anderson discussing the implications of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones. They outline significant risks associated with these treatments, including bone density issues, cognitive effects, and irreversible changes to sexual function. They express concern over the lack of thorough evaluations before medical interventions are prescribed, noting that many young people may be seeking transition as a solution to broader psychological problems. The discussion also touches on the increasing number of young girls identifying as trans and the potential societal factors influencing this trend. Both doctors advocate for a more cautious approach, emphasizing the need for individualized assessments and addressing underlying mental health issues rather than rushing into medical treatments. They call for a systematic review of the scientific evidence surrounding these practices, similar to actions taken in countries like Sweden and Finland, which have begun to reassess their approaches to gender-affirming care for minors.

On Origins Podcast, Lauren Schwarz and Arthur Rousseau discuss their chapter in The War on Science, focusing on gender-affirming care (GAC) and medical standards. They argue that the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) wields influence, with U.S. medical bodies deferring to it, while the UK’s Cass report and countries have begun to curtail such care. They describe WPATH’s standards of care (SOC 8) as presenting itself as evidence-based, lifesaving care, yet note published reviews finding the strength of the evidence often low or indirect, and that guidelines are not always consistent with the underlying literature. They recount that Johns Hopkins underwent political pressure to withdraw systematic reviews and that WPATH later imposed an approval mechanism over future publications. The speakers condemn the reliance on “lived experience” over rigorous evidence, and highlight concerns about age restrictions being removed and consent for minors to hormonal or surgical interventions. They cite a lack of long-term outcome data, no conclusive evidence that gender-affirming care reduces suicide, and cases illustrating the risks of messaging to afraid families. They call for better education, transparency, and a return to science-based medicine, while referencing the Tennessee minors’ care case and urging global alignment.

Jordan Peterson emphasizes the importance of self-acceptance while also advocating for personal responsibility and growth. He argues that identity is multifaceted, shaped by relationships with family, community, and societal ideals, and cannot be reduced to mere self-perception. Sara Stockton, a therapist with extensive experience in transgender issues, shares her concerns about the current approach to gender dysphoria treatment, particularly in children. She recounts her background in developing assessment guidelines for transgender youth and her shift away from gender-affirming practices after observing troubling trends in her practice. Stockton discusses her experiences with children questioning their gender identity, highlighting the confusion and disorientation these discussions can cause. She expresses alarm over the rush to medical interventions, noting that the current standard of care has shifted from thorough assessments to quick evaluations, often leading to irreversible decisions made without adequate understanding of the implications. She raises concerns about the lack of informed consent regarding the long-term effects of hormone treatments and surgeries, particularly for minors. The conversation touches on the societal pressures surrounding gender identity, including the influence of social media and the normalization of diverse identities. Stockton notes that many children presenting with gender dysphoria do not have a clear understanding of their feelings and that the current environment encourages rapid transitions without sufficient exploration of underlying issues. She warns against the potential for psychological epidemics, drawing parallels to past trends in mental health crises among adolescents. Both Peterson and Stockton critique the current therapeutic landscape, where affirming a child's self-identified gender often takes precedence over comprehensive psychological evaluation. They discuss the implications of this shift for the mental health of children and the ethical responsibilities of therapists. Stockton concludes by expressing her commitment to advocating for children and ensuring they receive appropriate care, free from the pressures of societal trends and medical interventions that may not be in their best interest.

Michael Shellenberger discusses the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) and the release of internal documents revealing troubling practices regarding gender dysphoria treatment. He argues that WPATH lacks evidence-based support for radical interventions like puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and irreversible surgeries. The documents show discussions about treating minors, including a 13-year-old with developmental delays, raising concerns about informed consent and the long-term consequences of such treatments. Shellenberger describes the situation as one of the greatest medical mistreatment scandals in history, comparable to lobotomies and the Tuskegee experiments. He emphasizes that many medical professionals involved seem to be aware of the lack of informed consent but continue their practices without questioning their validity. He criticizes the medical and psychological associations for their complicity, suggesting they prioritize ideology over patient welfare. He highlights the confusion between gender distress and broader emotional issues like anxiety and depression, arguing that many who express gender confusion may simply be experiencing identity crises. He points out that most children with gender dysphoria will likely identify as gay if left alone until adulthood. The conversation also touches on the societal implications of these practices, including the role of maternal instincts in decision-making and the potential for political and ideological manipulation. Shellenberger calls for accountability, suggesting that those who have transitioned minors should lose their licenses and face legal consequences. He notes recent shifts in public opinion, citing the UK's National Health Service's ban on puberty blockers, as a sign that awareness and resistance to these practices are growing. The discussion concludes with a call for a return to values that affirm human development and the importance of protecting children's rights to grow up without medical intervention.