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Tucker Carlson discusses the current state of South Africa with Ernst Roets, highlighting a shift in American perceptions since the end of apartheid in 1994. Roets explains that while South Africa was once seen as a miracle story under Nelson Mandela, the reality has deteriorated significantly, with increasing government corruption and systemic racism. He references Samuel Huntington's warning that African leaders would not necessarily adopt Western democratic values, leading to a government that uses democratic institutions to promote socialist ends. Roets describes the government's Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) policies as a means to advance a socialist agenda, revealing a disconnect between the liberal constitution and the harsh realities faced by many South Africans. He emphasizes that the ANC, which has strong ties to the South African Communist Party, has openly stated its goal of redistributing land and wealth based on race, leading to a climate of fear and violence against white farmers. Carlson and Roets discuss the historical context of Mandela's imprisonment, clarifying that he was jailed for leading a violent uprising against the apartheid government, not merely for being a good leader. They also touch on the controversial legacy of Winnie Mandela, who was involved in violent acts during the struggle against apartheid. Roets highlights the alarming rise in violence against farmers, particularly white farmers, and the rhetoric from political leaders that incites hatred. He notes that while the government denies the existence of farm murders, the reality is that many farmers face brutal attacks, often justified by the ruling party's narrative. The conversation shifts to the broader implications of these issues, with Roets asserting that the West, particularly the U.S., has a moral responsibility to acknowledge its role in shaping South Africa's current political landscape. He argues for the need for self-determination among various communities in South Africa, suggesting that the country should be organized into autonomous regions based on cultural identities. Roets discusses the challenges of mob justice and the necessity for well-organized communities to protect themselves. He emphasizes the importance of community solidarity and self-defense in the face of increasing violence and government incompetence. In conclusion, Roets calls for international attention to South Africa's plight, urging support for minority communities seeking self-determination and a reevaluation of the West's historical involvement in the country's governance. He expresses hope for a future where diverse communities can coexist peacefully, but acknowledges the current tensions and challenges that must be addressed.

Rob Hersov discusses the dire situation in South Africa, describing President Cyril Ramaphosa as ineffective and comparing the country's current state to Germany in the early 1930s. He highlights the government's policies, such as Black Economic Empowerment (BEE), which require businesses to allocate 30% ownership to black individuals chosen by the government, and the law of Expropriation Without Compensation, allowing the state to seize property without compensation. Hersov notes that these policies have led to economic decline, with youth unemployment at 61%, the highest in the world. He recounts the history of South Africa post-apartheid, mentioning the initial success under Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki, followed by the corruption and mismanagement under Jacob Zuma, who instituted state capture, leading to the theft of billions from state-owned enterprises. Hersov criticizes both Zuma and Ramaphosa for perpetuating anti-white racism and socialism, resulting in a stagnant economy and increasing violence against farmers, particularly white farmers. Hersov shares his personal background, including his family's wealth from mining and his experiences working with Rupert Murdoch. He emphasizes the need for a benevolent dictator to implement drastic reforms, such as privatizing state enterprises and reducing government size. He expresses a deep love for South Africa despite its challenges and a desire to see it thrive again. The conversation touches on the influence of figures like Elon Musk and the dangerous rhetoric of Julius Malema, leader of the Economic Freedom Fighters, who incites violence against white farmers. Hersov concludes by reflecting on the need for accountability and change in South Africa's leadership, stressing that the country must move away from its current trajectory to avoid further decline.

Dr. Ernst Roets discusses the complex history of South Africa, highlighting the 1838 vow made by Afrikaners during a conflict with the Zulu kingdom, which led to a significant battle where they were vastly outnumbered but emerged victorious. He emphasizes the intricate dynamics of land ownership and ethnic groups in South Africa, noting that the original inhabitants, the Bushmen, were displaced by Bantu-speaking groups and later European settlers. Jordan Peterson and Roets explore the historical narrative surrounding apartheid, arguing that the oversimplified view of white colonizers oppressing black Africans ignores the complexities of the region's history. They discuss the arrival of the Dutch in 1652 and the subsequent settlement patterns, which involved various ethnic groups and conflicts over land. Roets explains that the apartheid system attempted to manage these complexities through separate homelands for different ethnic groups, but this ultimately failed. The transition to democracy in the 1990s was relatively peaceful, largely due to leaders like Nelson Mandela advocating for reconciliation. However, Roets warns that the current political climate is deteriorating, with rising socialist sentiments and calls for land expropriation without compensation, echoing past failures in Zimbabwe. The conversation shifts to the present, where Roets describes the dire state of South Africa's infrastructure, including power outages and water shortages, exacerbated by government corruption and incompetence. He highlights the growing divide between wealthy and poor communities, with the latter suffering the most from state failures. Roets expresses concern over the rhetoric of politicians like Julius Malema, who incite violence against white farmers, framing it as a struggle against historical oppression. He warns that such language can lead to real violence and societal collapse, drawing parallels to historical genocides. The discussion concludes with Roets advocating for a decentralized political structure that recognizes the diverse identities within South Africa, allowing for self-governance and cultural autonomy. He stresses the importance of community resilience and the need for international support to prevent further deterioration and violence in the country.

Johnny Harris discusses the dramatic transformation of European imperialism from 1800 to 1914, where Europe expanded its control from 35% to 84% of the world's land. This shift was fueled by technological advancements, including quinine for malaria and innovations like steamboats and railroads, which enabled Europeans to explore and conquer Africa. The Berlin Conference of 1884 marked a pivotal moment where European powers divided Africa without African representation. Despite the horrors of colonization, this era also led to medical advancements and the spread of ideas about justice and equality. Ultimately, the imperial project collapsed in the mid-20th century, leading to the independence of former colonies while leaving lasting impacts on global systems.

In this conversation, Jordan Peterson speaks with Dr. Nigel Biggar about his book, *Colonialism: A Moral Reckoning*, which addresses the complexities of colonial history and the moral implications of the British Empire. Biggar argues that power itself is not inherently bad; rather, it is the manner in which power is wielded that determines its morality. He reflects on his academic background in ethics and history, which led him to explore the moral questions surrounding colonialism, particularly in light of the controversies surrounding figures like Cecil Rhodes. Biggar recounts his involvement in the debate over Rhodes' statue at Oxford, which sparked his interest in examining the moral dimensions of empire. He initiated a research project called "Ethics and Empire" to investigate how empires have been perceived morally throughout history. However, he faced significant backlash from colleagues and students, leading to the resignation of his collaborator, John Darwin, amidst personal and professional pressures. The discussion touches on the psychological mechanisms of mobbing and the fear of social ostracism, particularly in academic circles. Biggar emphasizes the importance of honesty and self-criticism in ethical inquiry, arguing that all individuals, including critics, are influenced by their social and economic interests. He advocates for a balanced view of history, acknowledging both the positive and negative aspects of the British Empire, including its role in the abolition of slavery. Biggar argues against the reductionist view that colonialism is synonymous with racism and exploitation, asserting that the motivations behind imperial endeavors were varied and complex. He highlights the humanitarian efforts that emerged within the empire and the eventual push for self-governance in former colonies. The conversation also addresses the legitimacy of non-democratic governments, suggesting that effective governance can exist outside of democratic frameworks. In conclusion, Biggar posits that the British Empire's legacy is mixed, containing both evils and goods. He warns against the dangers of a one-dimensional narrative that undermines the achievements of Western civilization and promotes a sense of collective guilt. The discussion underscores the need for a nuanced understanding of history that recognizes the complexities of human motivations and the moral dimensions of power.