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One speaker recounts that he did not like Bibi Netanyahu, describing Netanyahu as a destructive force and saying he was appalled by what was happening in Gaza, and that Netanyahu was using the United States to prosecute wars for the benefit of his country, which he called shameful and embarrassing and bad for the United States, a view he resented. He also notes that he didn’t hate Netanyahu. After that speech, there was a sharp backlash against Charlie Kirk and, to a lesser extent, the speaker, with Kirk having about $100 million in donors and being heavily dependent on them because his project was nonprofit. They went after him and tormented him, while a small, very intense group offended by the speech tormented Charlie Kirk until the day he died.

Speaker 1 questions the letter's truth; Speaker 2 confirms, "Yeah. I mean, it's it's real." They reference Nick Fuentes claiming Israel killed Charlie and mention "the call, like, Israel called him and told him to to to." Speaker 2 summarizes Charlie's Israel stance as nuanced: "he wanted people who controlled The Holy Land to be civilized people" and "didn't want it to be in the hands of Islam," preferring "a civilized group ... friendly to the West" over hostile Muslim nations. He was frustrated at being unable to criticize Israel without being labeled an anti Semitic, and had vehement disagreements about how the war was prosecuted and messaged; he wanted it to be over and saw more freedom to criticize America than Israel. "Even Tucker Carlson" noted Charlie Kirk's anti Semitic labeling; "BB's comments" were odd; he hosted critics like Dave Smith and recognized that "young people were much more Israeli skeptic," arguing that silencing debate would be a "huge disservice to the conservative movement."

Charlie mentioned Tucker and Candace forty eight hours earlier as they were trying to control who he's allowed to speak to. He was worried that Israel was infringing upon speech in America; "I have text messages to that effect." He was genuinely pro Israel; "there was nothing. there was not payment that was coming in." Toward the end, he was "over it towards the end because of Jewish behavior". Less than forty eight hours before he died, "Charlie announces that he has no choice but to abandon the pro Israel cause because of Jewish donors and their behavior living up to these stereotypes." We never said "Israel killed Charlie Kirk." "I am uncomfortable with how many lies people that support Israel have been telling in the wake of his death."

I was shocked and sickened by the reaction of the ghoulish and really repulsive reaction of the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, to Charlie's death. He basically made it all about him and redirected the grief toward support for his project. "Benjamin Netanyahu is not the same as the nation of Israel at all." "BB's defenders, on the Internet will call me a liar or a kook, but that's a fact." "what he said was completely untrue." "Charlie didn't hate Jews. He loved Jews. He loved the state of Israel. He loved going there." "He did not like Bibi Netanyahu, and he said that to me many times." "He felt that Bibi Netanyahu was a very destructive force." "He was resentful that he believed Netanyahu was using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country." "Shortly after that speech, there was a very intense attack on Charlie; he had $100,000,000 worth of donors." "Two days before he died, he lost a $2,000,000 donation because he had publicly pledged to bring me to the next Turning Point Conference in December." "They put out a flyer basically saying that I was going to be at this event giving a speech."

Asked about the last meeting with Charlie, it wasn't 'about, like, this is what you should say,' but 'talking through the issues' with Charlie asking questions and 'then saying, Okay, I think I'm going to approach this issue this way and this is going to be my position on it.' They discussed 'USA to Israel,' and 'I'm opposed to USA to Israel. I want it to be drawn down,' noting Netanyahu's stance. They talked through 'why is Israel actually an American interest?' 'Why is it in America's interest to support Israel?' Charlie was a listener, and 'the open marketplace of ideas' was a core fundamental. He believed in that, which is why he annoyed people by platforming Tucker Carlson and others, because for Charlie, 'the idea that you're supposed to silence any opinion was anathema.' 'Do I think he went too far with it? Well, yes.'

I was shocked and sickened by the ghoulish and really repulsive reaction of the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, to Charlie's death, basically made it all about him and his country, redirecting the grief toward support for his projects. Charlie Kirk did not hate Jews. "Charlie didn't hate Jews. He loved Jews." He did not like Bibi Netanyahu, and he felt that B. Netanyahu was a very destructive force; "he was above all resentful that he believed Netanyahu was using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country, and that it was shameful and embarrassing and bad for The United States, and he resented it." After that speech, there was an intense attack on Charlie; "He had $100,000,000 worth of donors." Two days before he died, he lost a $2,000,000 donation because he had publicly pledged to bring me to the next Turning Point conference in December. The American Jewish Committee called Charlie Kirk an anti Semite and "dangerous." He was not an anti Semite. He was the opposite, and he was a great lover of people and a purveyor of peace. Seth Dillon of the Babylon Bee was out there demanding that Charlie Kirk take me off the roster, pull me off stage, because I had said things that BB didn't like or that he didn't like or whatever. This is a trend.

Speaker 0 says Charlie bridged foreign policy gaps due to "genuine affection for Israel," and he privately expressed that he "love Israel." He argued, "we should not have another forever war, regime change war against Iran," and that view made him approachable because "this person doesn't hate me. It doesn't need to get existential. It's not about disliking me or some weird bigotry." He urged continuing in "the spirit that he operated in, which is one of love for other people, including people we disagree with." Speaker 1 notes Charlie was "a hardliner on immigration" who "wanted us to control our borders as much as possible" and who "wanted us to ramp up the deportations." He recalls Charlie asking, "why aren't the deportations higher? Why aren't you doing more?" He adds, "I'm a free citizen. I love you guys. I supported you guys, and I'm going to use my platform to try to accomplish as much good as I possibly can." He concludes, "I think that made him such an effective operator."

The speaker says a figure has annoyed the Jewish community over the last few months with criticisms of Israel. He cites a Jerusalem Post piece about backlash after Tucker Carlson spoke at SAS, where people were calling him an anti Semite. "I know Charlie and here he's little do they know half the time he's on college campuses, all he's doing is Hasbara and defending Israel. And he doesn't even wanna be. He doesn't even know the issues that well, but he's forced to." "But he dutifully with a smile on his face, defends Israel left and right." We saw him in England, at the debate, passionately defending Israel. And that's not even what he wants to be doing. Now he's getting criticized as an anti Semite. So I wrote that piece in the Jerusalem Post basically saying, listen, everybody. Stop with the purity tests for every single view that he has to line up with, I don't know, B. B. Cabinet decisions. "Relax. Okay? This is our greatest ally. Yes, he has questions. Yes, he's influenced by the other side as well." "Good. I'm talking to him."

Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss Charlie's approach. They note his genuine affection for Israel, and his private belief: "I love I don't think we should have another forever war, regime change war against Iran," which helped him bridge foreign-policy gaps because "this person doesn't hate me" and "it's not about disliking me or some weird bigotry." They caution against outsiders claiming to represent his cause. Charlie is described as a hardliner on immigration—"why aren't the deportations higher?"—yet he remained a constructive voice, saying, "I'm a free citizen. I love you guys," and using pressure to push for good outcomes rather than divisiveness. He worried about turning Iran strikes into a "regime change war," supported Israel, and, while backing strikes on a nuclear facility, insisted "no more" and "this can't become a bigger thing." He "never bent. He never became better" and kept integrity to the very end.

Benjamin Netanyahu is not the same as the nation of Israel at all. "Bibi is despised by many people, in Israel." There are "huge divisions within the Israeli government," and "parts of the intel world in Israel that do not support some things Benjamin Netanyahu has done recently." "his attempt to hijack Charlie's memory and use it for his own political ends, particularly because what he said was completely untrue." "Charlie didn't hate Jews. He loved Jews. He loved the state of Israel, loved going there." He "did not like Bibi Netanyahu, and he said that to me many times, and to people around him many times." "He felt that Bibi Netanyahu was a very destructive force." He was "appalled by what was happening in Gaza," and he "resented Netanyahu using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country, and that it was shameful and embarrassing and bad for The United States."

Charlie Charlie's position on Israel was very clear. "I like them more than I like Hamas." He added, "I just wish I was free to criticize Israel and not be labeled an anti Semite, because I can criticize my own government and not be called anti American." "But why do I have more freedom to do that and not criticize, you know, a foreign government?" He felt his bona fides in that respect were unassailable and that he should have the freedom to say, "hey. It's time to end the war." On Tucker, "we took some pushback. We lost some donors." It's not necessarily Jewish donors. A clip described: "I don't appreciate being morally blackmailed." Was Charlie offered $150,000,000 from Israel? "As far as I know, no." "We would have said no. We only took American money." During the pandemic, he refused to do mass layoffs that everybody else in the country was doing, "Said no to the stimulus check." "Deal with them. Get rid of them."

He did not like B. B. Netanyahu. He felt that B. B. Netanyahu was a very destructive force and was appalled by what was happening in Gaza. He was resentful that he believed Netanyahu was using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country, and that it was shameful and embarrassing and bad for The United States. He resented it and didn't hate Netanyahu. "There's no question that BB's defenders, on the internet will call me a liar or a kook. But that's a fact." "Enough text messages exist that I think it can probably be verified in pretty short order." Shortly after that speech, there was "a very intense attack on Charlie" and "I have no donors." He had "$100,000,000" worth of donors. "They went after him and tormented him ... until the day he died."

Speaker recounts meeting with Charlie: it wasn’t about 'this is what you should say,' but 'talking through the issues' as Charlie asked questions and began forming positions. He would 'approach this issue this way' and decide his stance on topics like 'USA to Israel,' which speaker opposed, wanting it drawn down; Netanyahu has said he wants it drawn down. Charlie would articulate his position more quickly than the speaker. They discussed why is Israel actually an American America's interest to support Israel and explored approaches to justify it, not just those favored by Israelis or the Israeli government, but ways to help Charlie feel comfortable with a position. Charlie is a 'listener' who believes in the 'open marketplace of ideas'—his existential core—and he platformed Tucker Carlson; silencing any opinion was 'anathema' to him because of truth seeking. 'For all of us, our best traits we often have to a fault.'

The speaker says there is a financial stake in the company tied to Charlie Kirk’s leadership of the faith division and notes concern if Charlie ever became Catholic, though conversion was not discussed. Rob McCoy allegedly knew Charlie was done with Israel bullying. He cites a group chat two days before Kirk’s assassination, with Charlie and Rob McCoy; he says he might release a name every day this week. In the chat, Charlie writes, "just lost another huge Jewish donor. 2,000,000 a year because we won't cancel Tucker. I'm thinking of inviting Candace." A second comment adds, "Jewish donors play into all of the stereotypes. I cannot and will not be bullied like this. Leaving me no choice but to leave the pro Israel cause." The speaker notes it was "forty eight hours before Charles was assassinated" and that Charlie was "very clear and he did not back down" in Hamptons meeting or thread. He questions why others haven’t vindicated these claims and suggests donor pressure may be shaping coverage toward eulogizing Charlie as never flinching in support of the Israeli cause.

"I like them more than I like Hamas. I just wish I was free to criticize Israel and not be labeled an anti Semite, because I can criticize my own government and not be called anti American." "It's time to end the war." "It's time to stop the killing." "it's not a whole lot of Jewish donors." "We only took American money." "There was money sent to us, like, practically in multiple instances where they're trying to cram it down our bank account, and we said no. We canceled, like, money wires and things." "No handouts from the government." "During the pandemic, he refused to do mass layoffs ... said no to the stimulus check." "I don't appreciate being morally blackmailed." "Was Charlie offered $150,000,000 from Israel? As far as I know, no."

Charlie Kirk faced mounting pressure about Israel debates. "I'm an American citizen. Yes. I want Israel to win. Yes. I'm a Christian." He says "the sum of the mess" and that "my moral character is now being put into question" while insisting "I love Israel. I want Israel to win." He recalls "thousands of tweets" and a pattern "similar to what my grandparents saw in nineteen thirties Germany online?" as well as threats to "pull out money" and "nasty text messages." The discussion centered on Tucker Carlson and why Charlie would allow voices like "Dave Smith, who by the way is Jewish" on stage. Beebe Netanyahu allegedly staged "an intervention" by "Bill Ackman" with "threats" after which Charlie "denied that funding" and was invited to Israel, an invitation Charlie "said no to Bebe." "Just take the last step, Charlie." Charlie was praying the rosary. Charlie was going to mass.

Over the past year and a half I became closer to Charlie Kirk, joining a group chat he called his 'brain trust.' We discussed Israel, Jewish–Christian relations, antisemitism. He was an adamant opponent of antisemitism. Campus talks exposed him to questions, including about the Talmud, and he provided 'very good answers'—'better answers than probably 98% of Jews probably could offer there.' We strategized to turn back the tide against rising antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiment. Charlie said roughly half, 50% of the questions that he got asked were all on Israel, Jews. He organized a Zoom call the night before Utah Valley University event, the first stop of a tour, with me, Pesach Willicki, producers, and one Christian pastor. The fact that he was seeking our counsel... calls into question this narrative that he was getting ready to renounce his lifelong support for the Jewish people, for the state of Israel.

Good faith is the measure: 'If you were good faith, you're on his team.' They warn against appropriating his memory for parochial ends. He bridged foreign policy gaps with genuine affection for Israel: 'I love Israel. I don't think we should have another forever war, regime change war against Iran.' Charlie was a hardliner on immigration, wanting to 'control our borders' and asking, 'why aren't the deportations higher?' He believed 'Pressure is a friend. Pressure is somebody who cares deeply about the issue.' He warned that Iran strikes could become a regime change war: 'This can't become a bigger thing. This can't become a broader thing.' He could support Israel and 'did eventually support the strikes on the nuclear facility while simultaneously saying no more.' Donors to Turning Point were 'very tough on him... under enormous pressure.' 'He never bent. He never became better.' His integrity 'to the very end.'

Charlie Kirk's perspective on Israel was not starting to shift. It had shifted entirely. Israel knew that. Turning Point USA knew that because Charlie was explicit. He wrote of his deep love for Israel. About forty eight hours before Charlie Kirk died, Charlie informed people at Turning Point, as well as Jewish donors and a rabbi that he had no choice but to abandon the pro Israel cause outright. Charlie was done. He said it explicitly that he refused to be bullied anymore by the Jewish donors. Did he express that? Did he also express that he wanted to bring me, Candace Owens, back because he was standing up for himself? And then did he, just forty eight hours later, conveniently catch a bullet to the throat before our on stage reunion could happen?

"The American Jewish Committee called in a statement Charlie Kirk an anti Semite and quote dangerous. 'Charlie Kirk, an anti Semite.' 'Yeah. He was not an anti Semite. He was the opposite, and he was not dangerous.' He was 'a great lover of people and a purveyor of peace,' 'the opposite,' and he was 'very stung by that.' 'Charlie was deeply offended by that' and expressed some of those feelings on Megyn Kelly show and in other places, but that did not let up. The story is told because he called me and then came to see me at my house about this topic. And I said to him every single time, 'look, I've got my own way to communicate my views.' This is actually not the most important issue to me. There are lots of things I can talk about. I don't need to come to Turning Point. I can take a year off no problem. I hated seeing how much he was suffering, the hassle he was getting from people, and I was attacked too. By the way, it was a huge effort. I wasn't fully aware of it actually because I don't go online."

There's a range of views on Israel—from those who hit Israel who are not anti-Semites to others with 'religious reasons for wanting to blow up Israel'—'those are all threats' and questions arise, 'Why attack people who are pretty reasonable... Why denounce them as dangerous antisemites?' He said, 'Israel was losing the PR war, that they had lost Democrats and independents and were starting to lose the Republican Party in America, and it was time to wrap it up.' At Turning Point with Charlie, they discussed Epstein and Pam Bondi; 'Israel, yeah, would make sense to me.' After two years defending Israel, 'some weird crowd' labeled them 'she's an anti Semite,' and they cried, 'eff these people because it's a lie.' Charlie 'had said nothing, like, nothing' and was smeared; '31,' a youth voice, 'under 30 is against Israel.' 'I'm on their side.' 'I know you want your hostages back, but it this cannot go on until you have every hostage.' 'You've had a two year long leash.'

On a Zoom call the night before his death, I was giving Charlie advice for how to message on this issue on his forthcoming campus tour, and he joked, “Josh, I'm gonna mention your book, Israel and civilization, and it's so good.” He referenced a letter to Netanyahu read in June or July; the opening sentence is, “As a Christian, one of my greatest joys in life is making friendships with the Jewish people and defending the state of Israel.” After his death, critics claimed he was turning on Israel, but that letter begins this way: “As a Christian… defending the state of Israel.” “Filth. Okay? Absolute filth. I I don't understand it.” “There was no truth in him.” He says three people claimed Charlie said within twenty four hours he thought they would kill him, and questions Josh Hammer about “the night before.” He warns: “if I get a text message… I will release it instantly. There'll be no place that you can hide.” He sent around a life insurance policy package with “text messages, emails, private communications, videos, and private legal documents.” He says, “If anything happens to me, … they have my explicit permission to release it all, detonate it all, expose all of these people in politics and in the movement who behave like this behind the scenes. It's necessary.” He cites Kanye: “Everything that Kanye said was so real. … Kanye was right” and urges to “leave me alone. Let me say what I believe, you say what you believe. Fight fair.”

I’m going to state this, and I’m going to challenge Turning Point USA executives to issue a very clean statement saying that I am lying if this is not true. About forty eight hours before Charlie Kirk died, Charlie informed people at Turning Point, as well as Jewish donors and a rabbi, that he had no choice but to abandon the pro Israel cause outright. Charlie was done. He said it explicitly that he refused to be bullied anymore by the Jewish donors. Did he express that? Did he also express that he wanted to bring me, Candace Owens, back because he was standing up for himself? Just forty eight hours later, a bullet to the throat. Charlie did not die pro Israel. He did not die for Israel. He did not martyr himself as a friend of Israel. The truth is going to win.

Charlie was loyal to people he had shared history with; he would say, "We're friends." He would never say an ill word about Candace, and if pressed to attack Tucker, he would be defiant because he didn't wanna be morally blackmailed. He remained loyal to donors and Turning Point staff and would not air any dirty laundry. He did disagree with Candace on the Israel issue and with Tucker on Israel, but "Tucker was a useful voice in the conservative movement on many things," and he invited him to events. "You could not buy him he was not bought and paid for." He loved Israel and cared about the holy Land, aware of anti-Israel sentiment on the right. He wrote to Bibi: "You are losing the PR war," signaling PR changes, including American support and opposing Islamic migration. He vented to pro-Israel peers and kept it to avoid betraying friends.

Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 address a group text shared by Kent Owens; the text grab is authentic and, though private, was released to show public frustrations and pursue justice for Charlie. They say they wanted no stone unturned in the first 33 hours of the investigation. As Turning Point USA spokesman, they caution that public statements could affect an ongoing case. Charlie's Israel views are described as nuanced and public: he cared about Israel, read a 700-page history, wanted the Gaza war to end, did not want American troops or Palestinian refugees, saw Hamas as the aggressor, and noted antisemitism rising. A Megyn Kelly clip is cited: "I love Israel. I want Israel to win." Charlie remained defiant, refusing to be cowed into deplatforming Tucker, upholding "free speech be our north star."