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Michael Pollan discusses his new book, "This Is Your Mind on Plants," and reflects on his journey into the world of psychedelics. He emphasizes the importance of approaching the subject with skepticism and curiosity, allowing readers to join him on his exploration rather than lecturing them. Pollan notes that much of the existing literature on psychedelics comes from those already convinced of their benefits, which can alienate skeptical audiences. He acknowledges the cultural baggage surrounding psychedelics, particularly stemming from the 1960s, and the need to address the risks associated with their use. Pollan discusses the potential for psychedelics to trigger mental health issues in vulnerable individuals, such as those predisposed to schizophrenia, and stresses the importance of transparency regarding these risks. Pollan's motivation for writing the book stems from his long-standing interest in plants and their relationship with humans. He highlights that every culture, except for the Inuit, has used plants or fungi to alter consciousness, raising questions about why this practice persists despite potential dangers. He notes the ongoing shift in societal attitudes toward psychedelics, particularly with recent legislative changes in states like Oregon and California, which are moving toward decriminalization and therapeutic use. He discusses the need for a cultural framework around drug use, emphasizing the importance of rituals and community in the responsible use of psychedelics. Pollan shares insights from indigenous practices, particularly the Native American Church's use of peyote, which emphasizes healing and community support. The conversation shifts to the broader implications of drug use, including the opioid crisis and the failures of the drug war. Pollan argues for a more compassionate approach to addiction, recognizing it as a symptom of deeper societal issues rather than solely a disease. He highlights the need for harm reduction strategies and the potential benefits of legalizing and regulating substances like psilocybin and MDMA. Pollan also reflects on the role of plants in human culture, noting that our relationship with them is complex and often overlooked. He discusses the intelligence of plants and their ability to communicate and adapt, drawing parallels to human experiences and societal structures. The discussion concludes with Pollan sharing his personal experiences with psychedelics and the transformative insights they can provide. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the context in which these substances are used and the potential for psychedelics to foster new narratives and perspectives in our lives.

Graham Hancock argues that our history is far older and more complex than mainstream archaeology admits. Atlantis, he says, should be treated not as a literal city but as a stand‑in for a forgotten Lost Civilization whose survivors and advanced knowledge may have influenced hunter‑gatherers. He highlights the Younger Dryas impact theory, a global cataclysm dated to roughly 12,800–11,600 years ago, and notes Gobekli Tepe’s 9,000 BC dating as evidence that civilization is older than the Fertile Crescent narrative. Across myths, floods appear in many cultures, suggesting memory banks of our species rather than isolated texts. Hancock cautions against dogmatic rejection of alternative evidence and calls for humility in archaeology, arguing that the field’s dates shift as new sites are uncovered. He discusses Hancock’s Netflix series Ancient Apocalypse and his approach to the Ark of the Covenant, the Falasha in Ethiopia, and James Bruce, arguing that the Ark’s presence in Ethiopia and the ancient links to Elephants Island and Nile routes fit with a broader mystery. He notes that early Christians may have drawn on psychedelic rites; he also connects pyramids, Sphinx weathering, and Orion/Osiris symbolism to a prehistory that predates the conventional era. He cites Robert Bauval’s Orion theory and suggests a lost knowledge of astronomy practiced by premodern builders. He remains open to the possibility that Templars, Freemasons, and El-Lalibela’s churches encode these links, while emphasizing speculation rather than established fact. On psychedelics, Hancock blends experience with scholarship. He cites ayahuasca journeys, DMT, and Imperial College trials that keep a DMT state for an hour in MRI studies, with participants reporting consistent entities. He argues psychedelics offer a different state of consciousness and can counter the alert problem‑solving mindset. He links psychedelic use to religious origins, critiques SSRI treatments, and references Terence McKenna and the Immortality Key idea that sacred rituals guide cultural evolution.

Peter Attia welcomes David Nutt to discuss the brain, psychiatry, and drug policy. Nutt shares his lifelong fascination with the brain, stemming from early childhood curiosity. He transitioned from neurology to psychiatry, where he encountered various mental health disorders, including a memorable experience with a psychotic patient who had olfactory hallucinations. Nutt, a professor of neuropsychopharmacology, explains his interest in both therapeutic and recreational drugs. He highlights the flawed nature of drug policy, particularly in the UK, which often lacks an evidence-based approach. He notes that the U.S. heavily influences global drug policy, with historical roots in the war on drugs initiated by Nixon. The conversation shifts to a framework for assessing drug harm, which includes both user and societal impacts. Nutt emphasizes that alcohol ranks as the most harmful drug due to its widespread use and societal consequences, while psychedelics like LSD and psilocybin are among the least harmful. He discusses the societal stigma surrounding cannabis compared to alcohol, suggesting that social acceptance plays a significant role in drug legality. Nutt recounts the historical context of psychedelics, noting their therapeutic potential, particularly in treating alcoholism and depression. He mentions the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, Bill Wilson, who believed in the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics. The conversation touches on the scheduling of drugs, with Nutt arguing that many psychedelics are unjustly classified as Schedule I substances despite their potential benefits. The discussion also covers the use of ketamine in treating depression, highlighting its rapid effects but also its potential for dependence. Nutt expresses interest in studying ibogaine for opioid addiction, noting its anecdotal success in some populations. Finally, Nutt discusses recent research on psilocybin, including a study comparing it to escitalopram for treatment-resistant depression. He emphasizes the need for further research to explore the long-term benefits of psychedelics and the potential for microdosing. The conversation concludes with a call for more open-minded drug policies and research to unlock the therapeutic potential of psychedelics.

The conversation begins with a humorous reflection on American Indian songs and the effects of being high. The host discusses his use of Alpha Brain, a supplement he takes to enhance brain function, particularly before performances and podcasts. He shares personal anecdotes about the vivid dreams he experiences while on Alpha Brain, including a story about his housekeeper having a lucid dream involving her grandfather. The discussion shifts to the nature of dreams and their connection to dimethyltryptamine (DMT), a substance produced by the brain that may play a role in dreaming. The host speculates on the significance of dreams and the potential for altered states of consciousness during sleep. He also mentions the benefits of Shroom Tech Sport, a product from Onnit that enhances athletic performance. The conversation touches on various topics, including the nature of reality, the human experience, and the strange aspects of life. The host reflects on the weirdness of being human and the acceptance of sleep as a normal part of life. He highlights the importance of quality products and shares his experiences with different brands, emphasizing the integrity behind his endorsements. The discussion then moves to the state of the world, touching on politics, media, and the influence of corporations. The host expresses concern over the corruption within the government and the media's role in shaping public perception. He critiques the current political landscape, emphasizing the need for transparency and accountability. The conversation also addresses the impact of psychedelics on consciousness and the potential for personal growth through experiences like ayahuasca. The host shares thoughts on the importance of community and connection, suggesting that positive interactions can lead to a better society. As the discussion progresses, the host reflects on the nature of capitalism and the need for a more equitable distribution of resources. He critiques the current financial system and the influence of money on politics, advocating for a resource-based economy that prioritizes humanity over profit. The conversation concludes with a discussion about the power of communication and the potential for podcasts to influence change. The host emphasizes the importance of sharing ideas and fostering connections among people, suggesting that this could lead to a more harmonious society. He expresses hope for the future, believing that the internet and access to information will empower individuals and promote positive change.

There's no way for you to visualize a five-dimensional object in its true form. And yet, when you smoke DMT, you do. It's an extremely intense experience. It's very fast and very short. It's not Terrence McKenna implanting the idea of machine elves into people's brains. These are intelligent beings that go back thousands of years. They will perform beings like elves or harlequins or jokers and jesters, and they will display these impossible higher dimensional beautiful objects that morph in front of your eyes. Can we show that we're actually interfacing with some kind of intelligence that is non-human? Steven Zara’s early self-experiments showed a rush of highly complex geometric imagery that seemed to transcend the drugs known at the time, and he began injecting colleagues. Rick Strassman later conducted a larger study with 60 volunteers across doses; many reports resembled alien abduction narratives, describing a high‑functioning, technologically sophisticated environment with orderlies, a top dog overseeing procedures, and being shown a craft by intelligent beings. John Mack noticed that some abductee reports paralleled DMT experiences, and he shifted toward non‑physical explanations and higher‑dimensional spaces, influenced by figures like Stannislav Grath and holotropic breath work. He considered whether interactions might occur in environments that weren’t strictly physical, while acknowledging that some abductees attach marks or implants that resist simple explanations. A core strand is the idea that the DMT experience is a directed encounter. The narrator argues that the intelligences do not merely show you things; they seize control of the brain’s world‑modeling machinery and direct your visions. They display impossibly intricate images, perform geometric feats, and reveal themselves as non‑human beings who sometimes feel preparatory or agenda‑driven. The line between physical and non‑physical is described as not always clear, with some observers suggesting that the beings could operate by influencing perception rather than entering a literal external reality. The aim is not certainty but the possibility that there are postulated beings present in a space accessible through DMT. Technological experiments aim to stabilize and extend the DMT state. The team discusses repurposing anesthesiology methods like target controlled intravenous infusion to keep a brain at a controlled DMT concentration, enabling longer exploration. Imperial College researchers extended the DMT state to about 30 minutes and later studies in Basel reportedly reached 90 minutes, and even six hours at low doses. This framework—DMTX—offers the potential to cultivate communication with intelligences and to study language and topology within the space, inviting specialists from mathematics, geomety, and linguistics to describe the structures encountered and the patterns of interaction rather than relying on anecdote alone. The approach is framed as a bridge from “scuba diving” to “deep sea diving” into the brain’s inner space. Indigenous and pharmacological contexts frame the practices as sophisticated technologies rather than mere hallucination. The Yanomami and other Amazonian groups are described as developing relationships with beings who are not human or animal but “other,” and ayahuasca is portrayed as a pharmacological technology that pairs DMT with MAO inhibitors to access this realm. The discussion emphasizes that these traditions have long treated the intelligences as interlocutors and teachers, not as mere figments, and it argues for taking these accounts seriously rather than dismissing them. Plans for a Caribbean retreat and research center aim to offer DMTX experiences, integrate preparation, and explore indigenous-informed frameworks alongside scientific inquiry.

Rick Strassman and Joe Rogan dive into whether ancient visionary experiences were psychedelic, a theme that threads through This Prophecy, Strassman’s book about DMT and prophecy in the Hebrew Bible. They compare Ezekiel’s flames, wheels, and beings to DMT visions, arguing phenomenology is similar and that both exogenous plant compounds and endogenous DMT could generate prophetic content. Strassman notes that DMT in acacia bushes, and beta-carbolines in certain plants, could render oral DMT effects possible when burned. He also credits learning Hebrew with reading passages in their original three-letter-rooted language, where bush and Sinai share a root and meaning that invites deeper interpretation. They discuss the Book of Enoch as a psychedelic text, the Watchers and Nephilim as giants, and how ancient descriptions might reflect altered states. They touch on Lot and Sodom, Noah, and the Ark, debating how metaphor and memory intersect with historical events. Resurrection stories appear, including Elijah and Alicia and the bones aiding revival, illustrating a two-level reality: a visionary realm that predates written history, later recorded in scripture. Throughout, the refrain remains: one God and the golden rule, with commandments framed as causal guidance that links actions to outcomes and spiritual states. The conversation expands to modern questions: might AI become a Messiah, and will telepathy or mind-reading reshape human interaction? They speculate psychedelics may help build a coming virtual universe, yet stress careful use to avoid spiritual narcissism. They recount the 1970s War on Drugs and its chilling effect on DMT research, and discuss potential legalized use, including MDMA-assisted therapy and ibogaine for addiction. They remark on AI-generated music and art, acknowledging both wonder and ethical risk, while emphasizing that any broad psychedelic shift must be navigated with communities, ethics, and integration. Personal threads run through the dialogue: Strassman’s journey from DMT study to Hebrew Bible translation, the role of language in shaping meaning, and Rogan’s sense of wonder at the overlap of science, mysticism, and culture. The episode closes with reflections on mortality, the human desire to understand consciousness, and the possibility that the Bible’s stories encode experiences from altered states while continuing to guide moral living.

Andrew Gallimore discusses his book "Death by Astonishment," inspired by Terrence McKenna's quote, and his journey into studying DMT. He describes DMT as a profoundly reality-altering molecule, far beyond mere hallucination or dreaming, capable of obliterating one's entire world and replacing it with an alien, yet seemingly more real, experience. Gallimore emphasizes the common encounter with intelligent, ancient, and technologically advanced entities, which he believes are undeniable and suggest an interaction with a non-human intelligence. He highlights the scientific irresponsibility of dismissing DMT's effects without direct experience, noting his own shock and horror during his first breakthrough experience, which led him to dedicate his scientific career to understanding it. Gallimore delves into the neuroscience of DMT, explaining how it perturbs the brain's "world-building machinery" (the cortex). Unlike other psychedelics that merely loosen the existing world model, DMT causes a chaotic state that collapses into an entirely new order, constructing a reality the brain never learned to build. He uses the Thatcher effect to illustrate how the brain actively constructs perception rather than passively observing. The discussion explores the mystery of endogenous DMT production, its potential role in near-death experiences (NDEs) where DMT levels spike, and the idea that it might protect the brain during hypoxia. Gallimore posits that consciousness is fundamental and everything is consciousness, suggesting DMT could be a gateway to interacting with this ultimate reality or intelligent agents. The conversation then shifts to DMTX, Gallimore's innovation to extend the DMT experience through controlled intravenous infusion, allowing for prolonged exploration and interaction with entities. This technology, being developed by New Nautics, aims to create a legal, medically supervised research and retreat center in St. Vincent and the Grenadines, where participants can formally map the DMT space and its intelligences. This research could provide vast data for AI-powered imagery generation, creating a map of the DMT realm. The broader implications connect DMT experiences to theories of advanced extraterrestrial intelligence, particularly post-biological civilizations that have transcended physical forms and might communicate through our brains, aligning with Terrence McKenna's predictions of accelerating technological innovation and societal chaos as humanity prepares for a profound transformation. The podcast touches on societal issues, contrasting the orderly, respectful culture and urban design of Tokyo with the chaos and societal failures seen in places like Skid Row in Los Angeles. This contrast serves as a backdrop for discussing the idea that chaos might be a necessary catalyst for radical change, pushing humanity towards a post-biological future driven by artificial general intelligence. McKenna's vision of humanity as "territorial apes with thermonuclear weapons" underscores the urgency of this transformation. The hosts and guest ponder whether AI could solve global problems like inequality and war, even if it means sacrificing some human freedom, and speculate on the ultimate destiny of humanity in a cosmos potentially teeming with ancient, super-intelligent entities that we might be on the cusp of truly understanding through tools like DMT.

Michael Pollan discusses his book on psychedelics, which explores their potential benefits and cultural significance. He began researching the topic in 2014, inspired by studies at institutions like Johns Hopkins and NYU, particularly those involving psilocybin for terminal cancer patients. Pollan highlights how guided psilocybin experiences can significantly reduce anxiety and depression, with 80% of participants showing improvement in studies. Pollan shares his limited personal experiences with psychedelics, noting he avoided them in college due to cultural fears. He emphasizes the importance of set and setting in psychedelic experiences, arguing that guided sessions can mitigate risks and enhance positive outcomes. He believes that the stigma surrounding psychedelics has led to unregulated use, which can be dangerous. The conversation touches on the physiological safety of classic psychedelics, which are less toxic than many common medications. Pollan mentions that psychedelics can provide insights into consciousness and the nature of reality, challenging conventional views. He recounts his own experiences, including feelings of interconnectedness with nature and profound realizations about love and existence. Pollan also discusses the historical context of psychedelics, referencing ancient rituals and their potential role in shaping religious experiences. He acknowledges the need for more research and regulation, as current mental health treatments are inadequate for many individuals suffering from depression and addiction. The discussion includes the potential of psychedelics to foster creativity and cultural evolution, comparing them to mutagens that introduce beneficial variations. Pollan expresses hope that ongoing research will lead to a better understanding of psychedelics and their therapeutic applications, while also cautioning that they are not suitable for everyone, particularly those with a history of mental illness. In conclusion, Pollan's book, "How to Change Your Mind," aims to demystify psychedelics and promote a more informed conversation about their use and benefits, while also sharing his personal journey of exploration and discovery within this realm.

Shane Moss discusses his experiences with virtual reality, particularly his time on Duncan Trussell's show, where he tried various VR games, including boxing and archery. He notes the potential of VR for training, especially in sports and police work, as technology advances to allow for more immersive experiences. They talk about the evolution of gaming technology, including the use of omnidirectional treadmills and the future of VR training facilities. Moss shares a personal story about a severe injury he sustained while rock climbing, leading to broken heels and a long recovery process. He describes the pain and challenges he faced, including surgeries and infections, and how it impacted his life and career. He reflects on the mental and emotional toll of his injury, the importance of physical health, and how it altered his perception of the world. The conversation shifts to the topic of kratom, a substance that Moss uses for pain management. He discusses its potential benefits and the controversy surrounding its classification as a Schedule I drug, comparing it to marijuana and the politics of drug regulation. They explore the implications of drug laws and the influence of societal perceptions on substances. Moss and his host delve into the nature of reality, consciousness, and the effects of psychedelics. They discuss how experiences during psychedelic trips can alter perceptions and the idea that imagination plays a crucial role in shaping reality. Moss emphasizes the importance of being skeptical of one's experiences while also acknowledging the profound insights that can arise from altered states of consciousness. They touch on the impact of music on experiences, both in everyday life and during psychedelic trips, and how different songs can evoke various emotions and perceptions. Moss reflects on the power of imagination and how it influences creativity, societal constructs, and personal experiences. The discussion concludes with Moss sharing anecdotes from his rebellious youth, including run-ins with the law and the thrill of adrenaline-fueled activities. He highlights the importance of embracing life experiences, both good and bad, and how they contribute to personal growth. Moss promotes his upcoming tour and podcast, emphasizing his commitment to exploring science and consciousness through comedy.

Joe Rogan and Rick Strassman discuss the history and implications of psychedelic research, particularly focusing on DMT and its effects. Strassman recounts how he began his research on psychedelics, emphasizing his early experiences with altered states and the groundbreaking nature of his studies, which were the first in the U.S. on Schedule I drugs in decades. He shares his fascination with the chemistry of psychedelics and how they can lead to profound experiences, including shared hallucinations. They delve into the cultural significance of psychedelics, discussing how ancient civilizations, such as the Aztecs and Mayans, may have used substances like psilocybin and ayahuasca in their rituals. Strassman highlights the potential benefits of psychedelics for mental health, particularly for veterans suffering from PTSD, and the importance of proper set and setting for these experiences. The conversation touches on the potential for psychedelics to be integrated into modern therapeutic practices, with Strassman advocating for a structured approach to their use, including screening processes to ensure safety. They also explore the idea of telepathy and collective consciousness, pondering whether psychedelics could enhance connectivity among individuals. Strassman reflects on the historical stigma surrounding psychedelics and the need for education and understanding to facilitate their acceptance in society. He discusses the role of organizations and churches that utilize psychedelics for spiritual growth and healing, noting the positive outcomes reported by participants. The dialogue concludes with a consideration of the future of psychedelics in society, the potential for legalization, and the importance of responsible use. Strassman expresses hope for continued research and a broader acceptance of psychedelics as tools for personal and societal transformation.

Dennis McKenna, a prominent researcher in Amazonian ethnopharmacology, discusses his extensive experience with plant hallucinogens, particularly ayahuasca. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the complex pharmacology of ayahuasca, which involves various plants and compounds beyond the commonly known ingredients. McKenna highlights the empirical nature of traditional practices, where shamans experiment with different plant combinations to enhance effects, underscoring the need for further scientific exploration of these mixtures. He shares an anecdote about a serendipitous discovery involving smoking Banisteriopsis caapi bark while on mushrooms, which he describes as creating a pleasant synergy that enhances visual experiences. McKenna notes that the effects of psychedelics can vary greatly among individuals, influenced by factors such as pharmacogenetics, setting, and personal expectations. He reflects on the challenges of studying these experiences scientifically due to their subjective nature. The conversation shifts to the upcoming ESPD55 conference, which aims to explore various topics in psychoethnopharmacology, including the potential of coca as a beneficial plant. McKenna expresses concern over the sustainability of psychoactive plants like ayahuasca and peyote, advocating for responsible practices and the development of synthetic alternatives when necessary. He emphasizes the importance of preserving indigenous knowledge and habitats through projects like Biognosis, which aims to document traditional Amazonian medicine and create a virtual herbarium. McKenna concludes by discussing the complexities of human nature within the psychedelic community, acknowledging that while psychedelics can facilitate personal growth, they do not inherently resolve interpersonal conflicts or power struggles. He advocates for a thoughtful approach to the use of psychedelics, emphasizing the need for ethical frameworks and empathy in their application.

In this conversation, Lex Fridman speaks with Matthew Johnson, a prominent researcher in psychedelics and a professor at Johns Hopkins. They discuss the nature of psychedelics, categorizing them primarily by their pharmacological activity rather than chemical structure. Classic psychedelics like psilocybin, LSD, DMT, and mescaline primarily affect the serotonin 2A receptor, leading to profound alterations in perception and self-awareness. Other substances like MDMA and ketamine, while often grouped with psychedelics, operate through different mechanisms and can have varying effects. Johnson emphasizes that the major effects of psychedelics stem from receptor-level events in the brain, which can lead to significant changes in consciousness. He notes that classic psychedelics are remarkably safe physiologically, with no known lethal doses for most users, making them unique compared to other psychoactive substances. He highlights the non-addictive nature of these compounds, contrasting them with substances like alcohol and cocaine, which can lead to habitual use. The conversation also touches on the therapeutic potential of psychedelics, particularly in treating conditions like PTSD and addiction. Johnson shares insights from his research, indicating that psychedelics can facilitate profound psychological experiences that lead to lasting behavioral changes. He discusses the importance of the setting and the psychological preparation involved in psychedelic therapy, which can enhance the therapeutic outcomes. Fridman and Johnson explore the philosophical implications of psychedelics, particularly regarding consciousness and the nature of reality. They speculate on the potential for psychedelics to provide insights into the hard problem of consciousness and the interconnectedness of all beings. Johnson expresses a belief in the possibility of panpsychism, where consciousness is a fundamental aspect of the universe, and discusses the implications of this perspective for understanding human experience. The discussion also delves into the societal and ethical considerations surrounding drug use, including the potential benefits of legalizing and regulating substances like psychedelics. Johnson advocates for a more nuanced approach to drug policy that prioritizes harm reduction and public health. In conclusion, the conversation reflects on the transformative power of psychedelics, both in therapeutic contexts and in expanding our understanding of consciousness and existence. Johnson emphasizes the importance of rigorous scientific inquiry into these substances while remaining open to the profound experiences they can facilitate.

This stripped episode traces a controversial hypothesis about human consciousness by weaving together archaeology, ethnobotany, and neuroscience. It begins with late 20th‑century claims that mushrooms in early human diets may have influenced brain growth and cognitive development, presenting Terrence McKenna’s Stoned Ape idea alongside data on psilocybin’s effects from controlled Harvard experiments. The narrative then follows neuroimaging findings that, despite expectations of heightened brain activity, psilocybin quiets the default mode network, enabling atypical cross‑talk between brain regions and the creation of novel neural pathways. Long‑term personality changes reported by researchers at Johns Hopkins are highlighted to suggest that psychedelic experiences can reshape openness and creativity, with measurable shifts persisting beyond the acute trip. The episode also revisits historical and cross‑cultural uses of mushrooms—from Eleusinian rites to Mazatec ceremonies and beyond—framing these traditions as a long tradition of “sacred technology.” Scientific caution is urged, noting Lamarckian inheritance and the limits of attributing evolutionary leaps to psychedelic exposure, while contemplating cultural evolution as an alternative mechanism by which psychedelic practices might influence language, art, and social structures over time.

There's up to 200 flood myths worldwide, and 'it's one of the only ones which actually gives a date.' Hancock says secret societies preserved information from what they call the first time and passed it down to future generations, revealing 'precocious astronomical knowledge' on a scale we 'don't have today.' He links this to a leap to the Milky Way, a journey through 'the underworld, but it's also in the sky.' At Axum, guardians of the Ark reportedly suffer cataracts and say 'the ark is doing this to me'; Hancock notes the guards 'show me the cataracts' and that 'it is a thing of fire.' He says he 'ate it, I slept it, I breathed it,' and explains his approach: 'I can't rely only on what archaeologists have to say.' He notes the Ethiopian tradition and 1991 airlift, emphasizing boots-on-the-ground research. On the Great Pyramid, Hancock argues it's not a tomb: 'no burial of any Pharaoh was ever found' and 'it's not going to be an impossible technological feat to access' hidden chambers. He cites 'Orion correlation theory' with Robert Bal, '12,500 years ago' dating, and notes erosion patterns suggesting age around '12,500 years' rather than 4,500. Sphinx water erosion supports an older date. He says monuments memorialize older epochs, 'zepe' or Zepe, the first time. Around Atlantis and Plato: 'Atlantis tradition passed down to us by Plato as part of that worldwide tradition of a global flood' and 'there are roughly 200 flood myths from all around the world' and 'mythology needs to be used as a guide rather than sneered at as fantasies'. Consciousness and psychedelics: Hancock recalls Pablo Amaringo describing 'vehicles for entering and leaving the spirit world.' He cites 'two parallel tracks' of research: 'nuts and bolts' and 'the consciousness parallel.' He discusses DMT studies at Imperial College London and UCSD, where volunteers report 'encounters with sentient others' and say it can feel 'more real than real.' He argues science is taking these experiences seriously, calls for elevated consciousness to avert nuclear catastrophe.

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience features Dennis McKenna, who discusses various topics related to psychedelics, consciousness, and his late brother, Terence McKenna. The conversation begins with a discussion about dog food and the importance of healthy options, transitioning into the main themes of the episode. Dennis McKenna expresses gratitude for being on the podcast and shares insights about his brother Terence, known for his provocative ideas and unique speaking style. He reflects on Terence's ability to captivate audiences with his charisma and intelligence, despite sometimes presenting contradictory statements. Dennis emphasizes that Terence's charm lay in his ability to make complex ideas engaging, even if they didn't always make logical sense. The discussion shifts to the concept of "Time Wave Zero," a theory proposed by Terence that attempts to map time using the I Ching. Dennis critiques this theory, suggesting that while it may have rediscovered aspects of ancient calendars, it overreaches by claiming to define the structure of time itself. He argues that novelty, as described by Terence, is difficult to quantify and that historical events often diffuse into the continuum rather than erupting as singular, novel occurrences. Dennis recounts their journey to La Charrera in search of psychoactive substances, particularly DMT, and the profound experiences they had there. He describes how their initial goal shifted from finding a specific drug to exploring the unexpected effects of psilocybin mushrooms, which led to a transformative experience that altered their perceptions of reality. The conversation touches on the role of psychedelics in human evolution, with Dennis suggesting that substances like psilocybin may have influenced the development of consciousness and culture. He speculates about the potential for ancient civilizations, like the Mayans, to have used psychedelics in their spiritual practices and how these experiences could have shaped their understanding of the universe. Dennis also discusses the idea of shared experiences among those who take psychedelics, noting that many people report similar visions and motifs, which raises questions about collective consciousness. He mentions the work of artists like Pablo Amaringo, who depict the psychedelic experience in their art, providing a visual representation of these shared realms. The episode concludes with a reflection on the nature of reality, consciousness, and the limitations of human understanding. Dennis emphasizes the importance of remaining open to the mysteries of existence and the potential for psychedelics to facilitate deeper insights into the nature of reality. He encourages listeners to explore these ideas while acknowledging the complexities and uncertainties that accompany such explorations.