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New tour dates are announced: Montreal on August 3, Portland on August 8, and Spokane on September 12. Tickets are on sale now, with remaining seats in Belfast, Cork, London, Idaho Falls, Salt Lake City, and Las Vegas. Tickets through theovondoom.com. Merch includes gang gang hoodies in heather gray, tan, light blue, and duck camo at theovonstore.com, the only merch site run by the team. Today's guest is Melissa, a Cleveland-born lunch lady with more than 31 years in the school lunch program. She describes lunch ladies as the belly-filling link between breakfast and dinner, the next liaison to sustenance for children. She started after graduation, when she needed a job while raising a child, and fell into the role. She works with Shayla Cruz; together they manage breakfast and lunch service, often serving on the line for speed. They feed about 460 students for breakfast and around 600 for lunch daily, and buses arriving late can keep the lines moving. A typical shift begins at 7:30, turning on warmers and ovens, setting out hot breakfasts, and managing a breakfast cart with options like pancakes, muffins, fruit, and juice. Breakfast sometimes extends to accommodate late arrivals, then they transition to lunch using a weekly menu planned a week ahead. They order for the week and adjust for shortages, a reality since 2020. Government guidelines specify required servings of vegetables and other items, but Melissa emphasizes flexibility to keep kids fed. Menus include hot lunches, PB&J, and cold options; pizza remains a favorite on pizza day, and they’ve added items like cantaloupe, watermelon, and Cuties as fresh fruit options. The cafeteria operates in a bilingual, multicultural environment; Melissa’s team mostly speaks Spanish, and she enjoys learning a few phrases. The kitchen has evolved from microwaved meals to cooked entrees finished in the oven, with more variety and greater focus on freshness. She likes to engage kids with wig changes, jokes, and upbeat energy, especially for the younger ones who still love school lunches. She shares personal details: she’s been married 30 years, has one son named Joe Rocka, who now works as a cable man in Masselin, and she has a dog named Mo. She has been recognized as Employee of the Year, and she plans to retire after reaching 35 years in the system. During the pandemic, she helped with drive-through meals for students and the homeless, reflecting the community role of lunch staff. Melissa notes the emotional bonds with students, the field trips, dances, and buddy programs that keep the lunchroom a supportive space. She sees the lunchroom as a home away from home where meals—and care—matter.

Sam Lessin’s unconventional foray into etiquette for founders reframes social polish as a practical tool for building trust in high‑stakes tech environments. The episode argues that early‑career coders and entrepreneurs often neglect etiquette, and that calm confidence, a steady heart rate, and genuine presence can unlock opportunities that pure product excellence alone cannot. Etiquette is presented as a skill for navigating rooms where status and risk feel concentrated—from holiday parties to investor meetings—and not about ritualistic formality but about signaling abundance, generosity, and relational depth. The conversation unfolds into concrete guidance across ten categories. Introductions and entering a room emphasize punctuality, a strong but not overpowering handshake, and actively repeating names to demonstrate presence. When others are late, the recommended stance is grace and apology rather than disparagement, and eye contact is framed as a core sign of respect. In conversations, the emphasis is on inclusive, low‑pressure dialogue that balances asking questions with giving back, like ping‑ponging ideas rather than delivering monologues, and leaving room for future interactions sparked by shared curiosity. Dining and dress are treated as signals of respect and situational awareness: tips include tipping appropriately, matching dress to the room, and avoiding unnecessary flash. The dining tips extend to wine tasting, bread and table etiquette, and gracefully handling awkward moments. The program also delves into scheduling etiquette, recognizing gatekeepers, and the importance of clear, respectful communication through email and virtual meetings. Etiquette should be intuitive and reflexive, not burdensome, so the social dance stays focused on trust‑building, collaboration, and the calm confidence that comes from preparation and practice. Beyond practical rules, the episode weaves in personal stories, humor, and a contrarian lens on AI and startup culture. Sam shares how etiquette intersects with technology, business culture, and family life, while guests reflect on modesty, self‑deprecation, and grace when engaging with prominent figures or peers. The net takeaway is that etiquette is a low‑heart‑rate toolkit for navigating the modern business world, enabling founders to connect more reliably, close better partnerships, and sustain growth through trust.

The episode delves into the science and practice of how we talk, listen, and connect with others, guided by Harvard behavioral scientist Alison Wood Brooks. The hosts draw out her two-decade study of conversational patterns, anxiety, and the craft of negotiation, translating dense research into practical steps listeners can apply in daily life. Brooks outlines how many of us mismanage conversations without realizing it, from preemptively labeling social anxiety as a threat to clinging to small talk at the expense of deeper connection. A central theme is reframing internal states to improve performance, such as treating social nerves as signals of opportunity and learning to prepare conversations in advance. She shares what she calls the teachable, measurable core of effective communication, including recognizing when conversations should stay intimate and one-on-one, and how to adapt methods for text and other digital forms without losing nuance. The discussion also unpacks how emotions shape behavior in high-stakes settings like negotiations, and how reframing anxiety as excitement can boost performance across performance tasks, public speaking, and collaboration. The guests explore concrete tools drawn from decades of lab work, including strategies to preserve trust, manage impressions, and avoid common mistakes that erode rapport. Brooks explains a framework for understanding conversational goals, namely balancing relational needs with information exchange, and the power of kindness, validation, and follow-up questions in building connection. The conversation turns practical when Brooks describes how to handle difficult conversations, how to apologize effectively, and how to structure conversations to keep them on a productive trajectory. Throughout, the emphasis remains on real-world application: how to ask better questions, how to listen with genuine curiosity, how to create micro-matters of warmth and engagement, and how to design conversations that move people toward greater collaboration and understanding, both in personal life and professional settings. The talk also touches on the impact of technology and AI on communication in everyday life, the balance between being authentic and adaptable in different social contexts, and the crucial role conversation plays in reducing loneliness and fostering meaningful relationships. The host and guest reflect on the importance of teaching these skills to younger generations and consider the future of work where human connection remains a uniquely valuable asset. Throughout, the episode stays anchored in science while translating it into actionable steps listeners can practice with friends, family, colleagues, and in public forums.

Zach Lahn, co-founder of Wonder, a Socratic-based K-12 school in Wichita, Kansas, discusses the need for educational transformation. He reflects on his own experiences in traditional schooling, where he felt out of place due to a lack of engagement and understanding of individual abilities. This led him to explore over 70 schools across the country, ultimately finding that most operated under a conventional model of direct instruction, which he believes stifles creativity and agency in students. Lahn emphasizes that parents often desire their children to develop character and agency rather than just academic skills. He argues that traditional schools, which prioritize compliance and control, do not align with these parental aspirations. Instead, he advocates for a model where children are actively engaged in their learning, questioning, and exploring their interests. At Wonder, the educational approach is centered around Socratic discussions, where students engage in debates on moral dilemmas, fostering respect and communication skills. The classroom environment is designed to promote peer learning, with older students mentoring younger ones, creating a sense of community and accountability. The curriculum includes self-directed learning through adaptive platforms like Khan Academy, allowing students to progress at their own pace. Lahn highlights the importance of fostering a love for learning and social skills in elementary education, while middle school focuses on hard work and real-world experiences through apprenticeships. High school students are encouraged to declare their career interests and engage in interviews with industry professionals, preparing them for future endeavors. Lahn believes that the current educational system, rooted in outdated models, fails to prepare students for the complexities of modern life. He advocates for a shift towards systems that recognize and nurture individual potential, allowing children to thrive as engaged, moral agents. He encourages parents interested in this model to consider schools like Wonder and Acton Academy, emphasizing the importance of agency and mentorship in education.