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To restore balance between the US and Israel and sane public conversation, the speaker says we must get our theology right. This message is aimed at Christians—the largest group of Israel supporters in the US—whose view is colored by a Christian heresy: that God prefers some people based on DNA. The chosen people, he argues, are 'the people who choose Jesus' and that is the universal Christian message. He cites Lindsey Graham and others, calling this 'not Christianity' and 'heresy.' Examples: 'Israel is our friend. They're the most reliable friend we have in the Mideast.' 'This is not a hard choice if you're an American.' 'If America pulls the plug on Israel, god will pull the plug on us.' 'God will kill you if you don't support Bibi Netanyahu.' He contends this uses God as a weapon, and 'the killing of the innocent' is forbidden; 'that person is committing heresy.'

Speaker 0 delivers a heartfelt apology and clarification surrounding a controversial statement. He begins by admitting regret for saying that he “despise[d] Christian Zionists,” explaining that the remark came from anger and informing listeners that he does not actually despise Christian Zionists, whom he then describes as among the nicest and most trustworthy people in various respects. He emphasizes that his anger was aimed at a particular line of thinking, not at individuals who identify as Christian Zionists. He specifies the core issue that provoked his comments: on at least a couple of occasions, the Israeli government bombed churches in Gaza and killed Christians. He asserts that these bombings were not accidents and notes that Israel is a high-tech military force capable of precision, to the extent that he mentions they gave pagers with bombs to Hezbollah. He states that “they didn’t accidentally bomb two churches and kill these Christians, and they never apologized for it.” In discussing responses to this grievance, he says he raised the issue with a couple of Christian leaders, including the Speaker of the House, asking how their government could be paying to bomb churches and, by extension, paying for it. He recounts the consistent reaction he received: “the Bible commands us to support Israel.” He recounts a critical question: “And I said, so Jesus is telling us that we need to get on board with murdering Christians. Is that what you’re saying?” He characterizes the response as essentially silencing him, stating that they “basically were just like, shut up,” which he found deeply distressing as a Christian. He clarifies the main point he intended to convey: one cannot support the murder of innocents, regardless of the pretext, and such an act is not allowed in his religion. He asserts that there is no justification for murder of innocents in the New Testament, and that if there were, it would not represent his religion at all. He reiterates his distress and emphasizes that he does not hate and should not have used the term “despise,” clarifying that the statement was about a specific line of thinking, not about the individuals. He concludes with a sincere apology for not being clearer in his original expression.

Israel encouraged and started Hamas to counteract Yasser Arafat. The speaker claims this served Israel's purpose at the time. The U.S. imposes its system on the world, such as invading Iraq to teach people how to be Democrats. The U.S. encouraged Palestinians to have a free election, and they elected Hamas. The speaker asserts the U.S. indirectly and directly, through Israel, helped establish Hamas. After Hamas became dominant through the election, the U.S. then had to kill them. The speaker concludes this does not make sense.

To restore balance between the United States and Israel, the speaker says we must get our theology right. This is not a message aimed at Israelis or Jews; it targets Christians, the largest group of Israel supporters in the United States. He calls the belief that God favors some people by DNA 'the oldest of the Christian heresies' and says, 'The chosen people are people who choose Jesus.' He declares, 'That is not Christianity. It is heresy.' He warns that if America pulls the plug on Israel, god will pull the plug on us, and, 'God will kill you if you don't support Bibi Netanyahu.' He argues that 'The Christian message is universal' and that, 'If you find anyone leveraging the message of Jesus to justify the killing of innocents, that person is committing heresy.'

The speaker is asked if they support Hamas killing 700 Israelis, including children, and kidnapping children. They respond by saying that the question is framed to make them look bad. They clarify that they do not support the United States, but they believe that the Israeli government is the real terrorist. The speaker is then asked a yes or no question about supporting the 700, but their response is not provided in the transcript.

Israel is accused of trying to erase Gaza's population, not just defeat Hamas. The speaker criticizes the lack of condemnation for Israeli war crimes by interviewers, highlighting a perceived double standard. The interviewer defends Israel's actions as responses to terrorism, while the speaker argues that killing civilians for a political cause constitutes terrorism, regardless of the perpetrator. The discussion revolves around the need for consistent moral principles in evaluating violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Speaker 0 states their support for Israel stems from a biblical teaching: those who bless Israel will be blessed. Speaker 1 questions if this refers to the modern government of Israel. Speaker 0 clarifies the Bible refers to the nation of Israel. Speaker 1 asks for a definition of Israel, questioning if it means the current political entity run by Benjamin Netanyahu, and Speaker 0 confirms that it does. Speaker 1 suggests the Genesis verse refers to the Jewish people, but Speaker 0 disagrees. Speaker 1 points out Speaker 0 cannot cite the exact scripture. Speaker 0 says they are explaining their personal motivation, not saying all Christians must support the modern state of Israel. Speaker 1 summarizes Speaker 0's position as being based on a Bible verse they cannot locate.

The speaker states their love for Jews and Israel has nothing to do with the question of whether people are killing or murdering a hundred children a day. Another person calls the speaker a terrorist.

Speaker 0 asserts that Bezalel Smotrich and Ben Gavir are “literally talking about exterminating the entire population of Gaza.” Speaker 1 counters that they are not talking about extermination. Speaker 0 insists the statements are brazen, up front, and what they actually want to do. Speaker 0 adds that Hamas is involved in a separate context. Speaker 0 says, “The West Bank had nothing to do with what happened on October 7, but they're annexing that land anyway. They're raining terror on innocent people, innocent Palestinians.” Speaker 0 concedes, “I am willing to admit, because it's the truth, that what Hamas did on October 7 was a fucking atrocity,” specifically mentioning killing innocent people. Speaker 1 challenges acknowledgement of atrocities against civilians in Gaza. Speaker 0 asks about a hospital being tapped; Speaker 1 responds that it’s an old terrorist trick and they do it “all the time.” Speaker 0 asks whether the IDF's action was wrong. Speaker 1 concedes, “I'm sure they have committed what we would call war crimes, as every army does in every war.” Speaker 0 notes, “Including our own.” Speaker 1 agrees, giving the Civil War example: Sherman burned Atlanta and Vad, arguing that despite brutality, the North were the good guys fighting slavery, and also noting Israel is fighting to survive and is the front line in the Western world. Speaker 0 disputes this, saying much of the problems in the Middle East come from an expansionist policy and that if Israel wasn’t trying to continue expanding, they would not be dealing with the enemies they’re dealing with. Speaker 1 disagrees that they ever were expanding, arguing they “were attacked” and that they “never been trying to expand.” Speaker 0 claims Israel is trying to annex the West Bank, southern Lebanon, and Syria, and argues they have succeeded in doing so. Speaker 1 says these are lands where they were attacked from when Israel became a country in 1947; he claims Israel said, “we will accept half a loaf,” and asserts they had as much right to that land as anybody, with a historical presence since a thousand BC when King David had a lineage. Speaker 0 dismisses this lineage-based argument as irrelevant to the present. Speaker 1 counters that it’s relevant, and asserts that the notion of wiping out innocent people merely because one’s ancestors lived there centuries ago is not acceptable. The conversation ends with Speaker 0 calling Palestinians colonizers, and Speaker 1 arguing they are not colonizers; they assert that Israel is annexing land, which, in their view, is described as colonization.

Speaker 0 claims that Hamas is not a terrorist group, but a resistance that has been fighting against colonialism, occupation, and violence for 75 years. Speaker 1 questions if Canada is also a colonialist country. Speaker 0 insists that everything Hamas does is justified and denies allegations of beheaded babies, stating that it was fake news. Speaker 1 mentions the 1300 deaths, but Speaker 0 dismisses it as lacking evidence. Speaker 0 argues that Hamas, as a Muslim group, would not commit such acts as it goes against Islam. They also mention Israeli women who claim that Hamas fighters treated them respectfully and even asked for a banana to eat.

Speaker 0 discusses collective punishment as disgusting and expresses fear that the United States may be crossing a Rubicon, drifting toward a moral framework it may not recognize. The question is raised: are we adopting the ethics of the Israeli government? Acknowledge that Israel is a very complicated topic with 9,000,000 people, not all of whom agree with this stuff. But the Israeli government has been moving ever more openly toward a policy where, “I don’t like the guy, but I’m also gonna kill his kids because they could grow up to be that guy.” This is described as the antithesis of Western civilization. There is a distinction between East and West. Western civilization, Christian civilization rejects that approach. It is not just a piece of civilization but the foundation stone of civilization. This is why we don’t put families on trial for the crimes of the father, whereas other countries do. We never have, and we never can, because that’s the opposite of justice. The most basic concept in the West is that God created each person as an individual, and as an individual, you’ll be judged for what you do, not for what your ancestors did or what children did. This “primacy of the individual” created by God and the existence of the individual soul form the basis of what used to be called human rights. Human rights apply to humans by virtue of the fact they’re human; the rights come from God because He made humans in His image.

Israel encouraged and started Hamas to counteract Yasser Arafat. The speaker claims this served Israel's purpose at the time. The U.S. imposes its system on the world, such as invading Iraq to teach people how to be Democrats. The U.S. encouraged Palestinians to have a free election, and they elected Hamas. The speaker claims the U.S. indirectly and directly through Israel helped establish Hamas. Because Hamas became dominant after the election, the U.S. then had to kill them. The speaker concludes that this does not make sense.

Speaker 0 argues that the United States bears responsibility for the conflict in The Middle East, particularly Gaza, because we provide help and funding for both Arab nations and Israel. He states that American weapons are being used to kill many Palestinians and that American funds are essentially supporting this, creating a moral responsibility. He also highlights a political liability, noting that there is blowback from interventions in areas where the U.S. should not be involved. Regarding Hamas, he claims that history shows Hamas was encouraged and started by Israel to counter Yasser Arafat, and while that served a purpose at the time, the U.S. did not want Hamas to emerge. He describes a sequence in which, after asserting that the U.S. has a good system and aims to impose democracy globally, the U.S. pushes for free elections, which leads Palestinians to elect Hamas. He asserts that the U.S. helped establish Hamas indirectly and directly through Israel, and after Hamas becomes dominant, the U.S. then feels compelled to kill Hamas, describing it as illogical. In the 1980s, he notes that the U.S. was allied with Osama bin Laden while contending with the Soviets. He says that our CAA (likely CIA) believed it was beneficial to radicalize the Muslim world to compete with the Soviets, financing Madrasa schools to radicalize Muslims. He argues that this policy produced significant blowback. He concludes that there are many reasons to oppose a certain resolution, stating that it is not in the interest of the United States and not in the interest of Israel either.

Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss a sequence of war-related scenarios, making provocative comparisons and extreme claims about Israel, Hamas, and broader conflicts. Speaker 0 asserts that if Mexico occupied their land and then decided to cut off electricity and control inputs, it would be akin to Israel’s actions against Palestinians; he imagines a scenario where an occupying force could slaughter people for allegedly throwing rocks. Speaker 1 counters by noting Israel has nuclear weapons and that the world’s military power backs Israel. Speaker 0 asserts that Israel has nuclear weapons and that they do not use them, while Speaker 1 suggests Hamas would use a nuclear weapon in seconds if they had one, stating three seconds as the answer because it’s in Hamas’s charter. Speaker 0 asks how anyone could know that, and Speaker 1 cites the charter as justification. Speaker 0 argues that Hamas would be martyrs if they used a nuclear weapon against Israel, describing Hamas as having a death-cult view and noting that they strap suicide vests sometimes on children. He says people cannot see the moral difference between Hamas and Israel. Speaker 1 pushes back, saying they are not talking about extermination and notes that Basilel Smotrich and Ben Gavir have talked about exterminating the entire population of Gaza, while Speaker 0 claims the West Bank is another example and states that despite the West Bank having nothing to do with October 7, it is being annexed and that terror is being rained on innocent Palestinians, driving them from their homes. Speaker 0 acknowledges that what Hamas did on October 7 was a “fucking atrocity,” killing innocent people. He says he is willing to admit that atrocity, but he emphasizes his belief that the atrocities against civilians in Gaza are also significant. Speaker 1 concedes that the IDF and all armies commit war crimes in war and that “all wars are going to have atrocity.” Speaker 0 asks for acknowledgment of a double tap on a hospital; Speaker 1 describes the hospital incident as an old terrorist trick and confirms that such acts occur in war, but he emphasizes that all wars involve atrocities. The exchange references first responders and a vague memory of the event, with Speaker 0 asserting that first responders’ deaths and hospital strikes are part of the ongoing discussion, while Speaker 1 frames them within the broader context of war crimes by all sides. Overall, the dialogue juxtaposes occupation, nuclear deterrence, and moral atrocity claims on both sides, with explicit references to statements by Israeli political figures, Hamas, and the general conduct of war by all parties.

Speaker 0 argues that the Palestinian people are oppressed and suffer under the occupation. They acknowledge Hamas is an armed group, but they describe Hamas as a reaction to signals of injustice and oppression by Israel. They assert that you cannot talk about peace without justice for Palestine and express a desire to know how the other person addresses that claim. Speaker 1 responds by reframing the situation as a political conflict, stating that while there is ideology involved, the core is colonization. They describe a situation where “a fence” surrounds the people, drones fly above, and “everything is taken over there.” They insist that the people in question are not there voluntarily and describe the people breaking out of their camp as something that provokes anger, calling that a “very peculiar viewpoint.” They further claim that Hamas is largely supported and founded by Mossad, arguing that it was very handy to have Hamas to respond to reactions in the area. Speaker 0 asks for evidence to support that claim. Speaker 1 confirms that evidence exists and says they will post it on Twitter after the conversation. They add that the evidence can also be found from the Israeli government or authorities, describing it as a very specific source.

Hamas has committed attacks prior to October 7, killing thousands of Israelis and hundreds of Palestinians, sabotaging the peace process. Hamas is more than a terrorist organization; it is a religious, ideological movement waging a holy war against a race, not a national resistance movement to liberate Palestine. Hamas does not believe in political borders, but wants a global state. Supporting pro-Palestine groups gives support to a savage group that committed genocide against Jewish communities. Having lived with Hamas members in prison for 27 months, the speaker witnessed them torturing Palestinians. The speaker believes October 7 could be the worst crime of modern day. Hamas is a radical religious movement with global ambition that does not value human life and does not believe in democracy. Israel, in contrast, is a democratic nation that has extended its hand to the region for peace for over 70 years. Since 1948, Arab nations have tried to annihilate Israel. 95% of wars between Arabs and Israel were initiated by Arab countries. On October 7, Israel suffered genocide, not just a terrorist attack.

Speaker 0 questions Speaker 1 about condemning the killing of civilians. Speaker 1 defends Israel's actions, claiming they have the right to defend themselves. Speaker 0 argues that terrorists also claim the same right. Speaker 1 disagrees, stating that Hamas and Bin Laden were not defending themselves. Speaker 0 questions how an occupier can defend itself in the first place. Speaker 1 tries to respond but is interrupted. Speaker 0 continues to argue that an occupier cannot claim self-defense. Speaker 1 acknowledges Israel's mistakes but defends their actions against terror attacks. Speaker 0 questions if killing civilians is justified, and Speaker 1 argues that Hamas can be targeted if they hide among the public. Speaker 0 dismisses this argument as a fallacy and questions the necessity of bombing densely populated areas.

Speaker 0 claims that Hamas is not a terrorist group, but a resistance that has been fighting against colonialism, occupation, murder, rape, and the mistreatment of children and women for 75 years. Speaker 1 questions if Canada is also a colonialist country. Speaker 0 insists that everything Hamas does is justified, including recent events. Speaker 1 mentions children being murdered and babies being beheaded, but Speaker 0 dismisses it as fake news. Speaker 0 argues that Hamas, as a Muslim group, would never commit such acts as it goes against Islam. Speaker 0 also mentions Israeli women who claim that Hamas members treated them respectfully and even asked for a banana to eat.

The speaker discusses the difference between targeting Hamas and intentionally harming civilians. They claim that the Israeli actions are not solely focused on Hamas, but rather involve purposely killing a large number of civilians. They argue that evidence from Israeli leaders and assessments supports the idea that this is a campaign to punish and ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank by getting rid of Palestinians.

Israel is in a fight for their lives. I am tired of the word genocide. If Israel wanted to commit genocide, they could. They have the capability to do that; they choose not to. Hamas, they would commit genocide in thirty seconds. They just can't. And that's the big difference, folks. Israel is our friend—the most reliable friend we have in the Mideast—a democracy surrounded by people who would cut their throats if they could. A word of warning: if America pulls the plug on Israel, God will pull the plug on us. President Trump has stood with Israel at the most difficult time since his founding; October 7 was an effort to destroy the state of Israel, the largest loss of Jewish life since the holocaust, and here we are almost two years later and Israel's the bad guy. The bad guys are the radical Islamists who would kill everybody in this room if they could.

Speaker 0 expresses distress over videos of suffering children, describing the situation as a massacre and, for some, a genocide. They feel complicit due to tax dollars funding military actions and express a sense of powerlessness. They also suggest that American interests are sometimes secondary to those of Israel. Speaker 1 disagrees with the genocide characterization, stating that Israel is not purposely trying to murder every Palestinian, but rather trying to destroy a terrorist organization after being "hit hard." Speaker 1 acknowledges the suffering of innocent Palestinian children and emphasizes the need to eliminate the conflict and provide humanitarian assistance. They note the president is pro-Israel.

Speaker 0 opens with "we wanna see the maniacs of Hamas be defeated" and notes "Israel, bombed Qatar, which houses a lot of Hamas officials," asking "What happened here? ... Will this potentially endanger America's own interest in The Middle East?" He contrasts Israel's aims with "unconditional surrender" and asks, "Is that what Israel is aiming for here?" He wonders what "success look[s] like" in Gaza after about twenty-three months and what could have been done differently "on the PR front" or "conduct front." A claim heard is "Israel is committing genocide." The discussion touches on media skepticism, accusations that Israel wants to "ethnically cleanse," and asks for a five-year outlook. The remark "you can't be MAGA if you're anti Israel" prompts Ben Shapiro's response: "And it is totally fine to say to people who wish to destroy our civilization, no, your values suck, and they don't belong here."

Speaker 0 alleges that Mark Levin has repeatedly called for murdering civilians in Gaza, including children, because they are Amalek or “stained by blood guilt.” They claim this constitutes a blood guilt argument and leads to collective punishment and genocide, describing it as the Israeli government’s attitude and stating that “we’re paying for that.” Speaker 1 responds that they should defend themselves and that if there is collateral damage, that is unfortunate, emphasizing the need for Israel to defend itself. Speaker 0 contends that twenty-five years ago in this country, people didn’t talk that way; blood guilt would imply being guilty by birth, which they say leads to genocide and is unchristian and unamerican. They claim that if someone said such a thing on television, they would be pulled off the air, and argue that saying “kill kids because you don’t like their parents” reflects the Israeli government’s attitude, a well-documented attitude, and that “we’re paying for that.”

Speaker 0 expresses the belief that as long as Israel exists and is supported by America, there will always be Muslims who pose a threat and seek to harm us. Speaker 1 disagrees, stating that they do not support Israel and do not believe it is worth American lives or dollars. Speaker 0 questions this stance, arguing that Israel is not comparable to other countries like Saudi Arabia. Speaker 1 clarifies that their main concern is the survival of the United States and expresses concern about the influence of APAC and the lobby on American support for Israeli actions.

Israel is accused of using Judaism as a shield to oppress Palestinians. The speaker believes that the recent assault was not an attack on Judaism, but a response to Israel's occupation and violation of Palestinian rights. They argue that Israel manipulates Jews for control and to fulfill religious prophecies. The speaker calls for an end to the killing of Palestinians, daily raids, detention, settler violence, and dehumanization. They emphasize that many Jews support Palestinian freedom. The actions of Israel, according to the speaker, do not represent all Jews.