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Colonel Douglas McGregor discusses his takeaways from a NATO summit, linking the summit’s themes to Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov’s claim that NATO’s involvement means a “war” rather than a “special military operation.” McGregor argues that the summit reflected Donald Trump’s lack of strategic coherence, describes Trump’s Greenland remarks as aimed at preventing Chinese and Russian threats via Greenland and Europe, and says Trump was treated with contempt by Giorgia Meloni while others were sycophantic. McGregor argues Trump’s decisions—lifting sanctions and providing F-35s to Turkey—are not aimed at Israel but are meant to “bribe” Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to stay on Trump’s side, distance from Moscow, reduce cooperation with the Iranians, and “be our friend.” He portrays Erdoğan as “innately Machiavellian,” saying Trump’s goal is what he wanted to achieve “for the moment,” and he adds that Trump seeks ceremony and celebration, which he believes Turkey provided. McGregor claims European governments are emphasizing money and equipment for the Ukrainian regime to drag the United States into direct military confrontation with Russia, while also baiting President Vladimir Putin. He says Lithuania and other NATO states bordering Russia are openly providing bases and even potentially nuclear weapons on their soil for potential use against Russia, and he calls this “catastrophic.” He states that Trump should have “put his foot down” but instead listened to Rubio argue that helping Ukrainians strike deep into Russia would be important for negotiations, and then Trump allegedly called it an escalation while claiming it is the path to success. McGregor compares current dynamics to World War II and claims the United States lacked strategy during that period. He contrasts earlier statements Trump reportedly made—wanting Europeans to deal with Ukraine and wanting to “get out”—with later actions that he says effectively take over. He also says certain European actors appear less committed: Hungarians, Croats, Slovaks, and especially Poles, who he argues are disinterested in losing additional Polish soldiers in a war with Russia. McGregor references events involving Zelensky returning to Poland an honor and describes celebrations of figures he says were “Nazi” supporters, arguing this fuels Polish dissatisfaction with Ukrainians. He warns that if Trump pursues a no-fly zone or similar steps, neighboring countries would face consequences, and he describes the prospect as “insane,” asking whether Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, and other locations would respond by allowing routes for US sorties. When Glenn asks about possible US policy shifts—such as talk of no-fly zones, licensing Patriot production for Ukraine, and Rubio’s comments endorsing strikes into Russia—McGregor says the danger is high and compares Trump’s approach to FDR’s unilateral “unconditional surrender” decision. He argues Russia takes these steps seriously because the West repeatedly “misjudged Moscow,” dismisses Russia militarily, and misunderstands the logic of “poking the cobra.” He also says American “bloviate,” promises, and bullying are not effective against Russia, Iran, or China, and he claims the US is losing support in Europe and the Gulf. He argues Trump is manipulated by the “wrong people” including Israelis and Europeans. McGregor shifts to economic and political pressures, saying European economies face de-industrialization and trouble sustaining employment and that war drives inflation while interest rates rise. He discusses oil price dynamics, bond rates, and the potential inability to service debt if rates reach around 5%. He claims these pressures could lead to class conflict in Europe and the West. He adds that Donald Trump’s statements function as “bait” for Russia and argues Putin has avoided taking the bait. He says Russian troop movements are advancing slowly and attributes delays to handling “thousands of drones,” calling drones an “irritant” rather than a strategic game changer. He says Peskov’s remarks declaring the “SMO” over and the war as now could have prompted an immediate call to the White House to prevent “World War III,” because McGregor claims Russia is prepared while the US and Europe are not. In response to whether Sergei Lavrov’s position about already being in World War III is agreed with, McGregor says that if he were in Lavrov’s position he might feel that way due to actions he believes contradict Russian national security, but he adds the US does not reassure Russia and behaves as though only it matters, attempting a parent-child relationship. Glenn raises US remarks at the summit about Iran, including Trump declaring a memorandum of understanding dead, a ceasefire over, and Iranian diplomats being “scum,” and asks whether the US is heading into an all-out war against Iran. McGregor says the conflict is a “Jewish war waged against Iran,” involving Israeli leadership, the Jewish lobby, and “massive numbers of billionaires,” and he claims Netanyahu’s strategy is one of scorched-earth outcomes meant to destroy Iran’s state and society. He frames Trump as executing on behalf of Netanyahu. McGregor also says people believe Israel expects nuclear escalation if the US disengages, describing it as the end of Israel’s state if nuclear use occurs. Discussing a potential US strike or seizure options after Karg Island—plus alternatives involving ports like Shabahar—McGregor argues the US has underestimated the Iranian regime and military systems, referencing an earlier attempt involving Isfahan and special operations that he says ended in disaster. He describes special operations as dependent on accurate intelligence and explains that failure can occur with a single RPG or similar event. He argues that if forces seize positions like an island, the defenders may become a “pincushion” for missiles and unmanned systems. He asserts he does not see options leading to anything “clean, decisive and effective.” Finally, Glenn asks about Turkey becoming an increased concern for Israel relative to Saudi Arabia. McGregor says Turkey has the capacity to conquer, put “a million men” into the field rapidly, has modern weapons and its own industrial base, and can cooperate with Pakistan for nuclear capability. He argues that Turkey and Iran may prefer being “nuclear threshold states” without becoming nuclear powers, and he claims US behavior sends a signal that other states should build nuclear weapons. He references a French nuclear deterrent strategy analogy where only “one” nuclear weapon is needed because it imposes unacceptable damage, and he says Iran’s demonstrated ISR and strike capability suggests many middle-sized powers can now make deterrence costly enough to discourage aggression.

The conversation centers on a US-Israeli relationship and a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) tied to the US posture toward Iran, framed as a major political defeat and a source of domestic backlash inside the United States. Max Blumenthal asks about US domestic politics and how Americans are reacting to what he characterizes as a “defeat,” and whether US decision-makers can accept the MOU’s terms. The response argues that the MOU is a major political defeat for Donald Trump and that Trump is trying to sell a different version of the outcome to his base and the American public than the one Iran understands. It claims Trump is declaring that IAEA inspectors will head to Iran to inspect nuclear sites, which Iran has rejected so far, and links this to assassinations of Mohsen Fakhrizadeh and other Iranian scientists, stating Israel obtained names of scientists through hacked access to Rafael Grossi’s private accounts and previous inspections. The response says the US has suffered the “worst, strategic defeat” in history in military and economic terms, with damage not contained even if conflict ends, and claims oil markets are preparing for continued high prices. It also describes shifts within US political support: JD Vance is described as being positioned as the salesman for the MOU, with Marco Rubio “nowhere to be seen,” and Trump backing Vance publicly. It claims neocon-oriented Republicans and Israel First Republicans are up in arms about the MOU, while the Zionist movement that supported Trump is also portrayed as turning on him. The response then argues that Democrats are attempting to “turn the screws” on Trump because the MOU is unpopular with the American public, and that opposition is driven by Trump’s unpopularity rather than opposition to peace with Iran. It further claims that cable news attention is framed around a separate political spectacle—renovation of the reflecting pool on the National Mall that allegedly became green with algae, cracked sealant, and National Guard presence—serving as a conduit for contempt that spills into opposition to the MOU. Behind the spectacle, it lists pro-Israel operatives and alleges they are “honeycombed” through the Trump administration, potentially trying to unravel the MOU or prevent a deal, while describing them as buying time through “strategic sequencing.” Blumenthal presses on Israel’s position, noting Israel’s decade-long push for war with Iran and asking about Israel’s panic and plan B. The response states that Israel reportedly proposed destroying all of Iran’s infrastructure in 48 hours to the US, and that the US rejected it, describing it as a ploy to drag the US into a war it can’t win. It cites Dan Kaine opposing the war before it began and later allegedly leaking information about munitions shortages and the inability to destroy Iran’s navy or open the Strait of Hormuz. It argues that the US lacked a path to military objectives without massive air power losses and concludes that Iran’s doctrine is “survival”-based, leaving Israel exposed. The response then connects Israel’s vulnerability to rising polarization in the United States, describing opposition to aid to Israel as surging in polling and framing Israel lobby messaging as unable to adjust. It claims Israeli intelligence will continue destabilization activities but lacks firepower to confront Iran alone, and discusses outgoing Mossad director David Barnea allegedly leaking details of regime-change efforts while predicting regime change by the end of the year. The core claim about how the MOU will unravel is that the key lever is Lebanon: it asserts Israel must stay escalatory in Lebanon to sabotage the MOU. It describes interviews with people in southern Lebanon returning to rubble, alleged new massacres, and specific incidents around the “Ali al-Tahrir Hill.” It also claims Israel’s coalition rhetoric is being exposed, including references to Itamar Ben-Gvir, and asserts that US and Israeli lobbying attempts to frame Israeli incursions as victimhood face online backlash. It further claims JD Vance told an Arab reporter that “no one is doing more” than the US to tamp down violence in Lebanon, and argues that if the MOU is enforced, Israel will be restricted in Lebanon. The discussion expands to possible US political realignment, including Tucker Carlson’s alleged break from the Republican Party and the idea of a third party combining Carlson-aligned figures with others, potentially pushing JD Vance toward a harder line against Israel. Finally, Blumenthal asks what Israel could do “in desperation,” including whether use of a nuclear weapon could be considered; the response does not speculate about specific actions but describes Israel as capable of “anything” and claims Israel is using anti-Semitism hoaxes and overseas attacks (including gun-for-hire claims) to elicit sympathy. It proposes “United Against a Nuclear Israel” as an idea to educate the public about what it calls an “apocalyptic threat” and links this to dismantling apartheid as central to global crises.

The conversation centers on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, Iran, and regional dynamics, with Speaker 0 (a former prime minister) offering sharp criticisms of the current Israeli government while outlining a path he sees as in Israel’s long-term interest. Speaker 1 presses on US interests, Lebanon, and the ethics and consequences of the war. Key points and claims retained as stated: - Iran and the war: Speaker 0 says he supported the American strike against Iran’s leadership, calling Ayatollah Khamenei’s regime a brutal threat and praising the move as punishment for Iran’s actions, including backing Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. He questions why there was a lack of a clear next-step strategy after the initial attack and asks whether a diplomatic alternative, similar to Obama’s Iran agreement, could have achieved nuclear supervision without war. He notes the broader regional risk posed by Iran’s proxies and ballistic missiles and emphasizes the goal of constraining Iran’s nuclear program, while acknowledging the economic and security costs of the war. - On Netanyahu and influence: Speaker 1 references the New York Times report about Netanyahu’s influence on Trump and asks how much Netanyahu affected the decision to go to war. Speaker 0 says he isn’t certain he’s the best judge of Netanyahu’s influence but believes Netanyahu sought to push the war forward even during a ceasefire and that Iran’s threat required action, though he questions whether the next steps beyond initial strikes were properly planned. He states, “Iran deserve to be punished,” and reiterates the need for a strategy to end hostilities and stabilize the region. - Proxies and regional instability: The discussion highlights Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis as Iranian proxies destabilizing the Middle East, with Speaker 0 insisting that Iran’s support for these groups explains much of the regional violence and Israel’s security concerns. He argues that eliminating or significantly curbing Iran’s influence is essential for regional stability. - Gaza, West Bank, and war ethics: Speaker 1 cites humanitarian and civilian-impact statistics from Gaza, arguing that the war has gone beyond a proportionate response. Speaker 0 concedes there were crimes and unacceptable actions, stating there were “war crimes” and praising investigations and accountability, while resisting the accusation of genocide. He criticizes certain Israeli political figures (e.g., Ben-Gvir, Smotrich) for rhetoric and policies that could protract conflict, and he condemns the idea of broad acceptance of annexation policies in the South of Lebanon. - Lebanon and Hezbollah: The core policy debate is about disarming Hezbollah and the future of Lebanon-Israel normalization. Speaker 0 argues against annexing South Lebanon and says disarming Hezbollah must be part of any Israel–Lebanon peace process. He rejects “artificial” solutions like merging Hezbollah into the Lebanese army with weapons, arguing that Hezbollah cannot be permitted to operate as an independent armed force. He believes disarming Hezbollah should be achieved through an agreement that involves Iran’s influence, potentially allowing Hezbollah to be integrated into Lebanon’s political order if fully disarmed and bound by Lebanese sovereignty, and with international support (France cited). - Practical path to peace: Both speakers acknowledge the need for a negotiated two-state solution. Speaker 0 reiterates a longstanding plan: a two-state solution based on 1967 borders, with East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine, the Old City administered under a shared trust (involving Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Palestine, Israel, and the United States). He emphasizes that this vision remains essential to changing the regional dynamic and that the current Israeli government’s approach conflicts with this pathway. He frames his opposition to the present government as tied to this broader objective and says he will continue opposing it until it is replaced. - Personal reflections on leadership and regional hope: The exchange ends with mutual recognition that the cycle of violence is fueled by leadership choices on both sides. Speaker 0 asserts that a different Israeli administration could yield a more hopeful trajectory toward peace, while Speaker 1 stresses the importance of accountability for war crimes and the dangers of rhetoric that could undermine regional stability. Speaker 0 maintains it is possible to pursue peace through a viable, enforceable two-state framework, and urges focusing on disarming Hezbollah, negotiating with Lebanon, and pulling back to an international front to prevent further escalation. Overall, the dialogue juxtaposes urgent punitive action against Iran with the imperative of a negotiated regional settlement, disarmament of proxies, and a concrete two-state solution as the viable long-term path, while condemning certain actions and rhetoric that risk perpetuating conflict.

Speaker 0 asks why President Trump unleashed Prime Minister Netanyahu to resume genocide in Gaza, resulting in the intentional killing of 400 civilians. Speaker 1 believes Trump has no choice, due to agreements with major donors beyond Miriam Adelson, obliging him to underwrite Netanyahu's actions. Speaker 1 notes Netanyahu arranged a meeting between the U.S. and Azerbaijan, not the State Department, indicating the Israel lobby's grip. Speaker 1 believes Trump is obliged to comply and won't diverge. Speaker 0 asks if Trump has no choice but to militarily back Israel if it attacks Iran. Speaker 1 thinks so, noting the possibility of Israel precipitating a war with Iran. The expectation is the U.S. will reinforce Israeli actions, with joint strike planning and intelligence sharing already in place. Speaker 1 believes it's a foregone conclusion, though the timing is uncertain.

The discussion centers on Israel, Iran, and the United States’ role, focusing on perceived double standards about “foreign agents,” changing U.S. policy under Donald Trump, and concerns about influence inside American politics. Mario and the other speaker open by reacting to news claiming Netanyahu intends to tap pro-Israel Republican lawmakers and media figures such as Mark Levin to help undo progress toward a peace deal with Iran. They argue that Netanyahu’s position is not about nuclear weapons in practice, but about continuing pressure on Iran. The speaker says deterrence and nuclear power mean Israel will not be attacked the way it fears, and that Iran’s role as a regional power has checked aggression. They also claim there is no military option to change Iran’s position, which is presented as part of why Trump signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU). The conversation then turns to a perceived double standard in U.S. discourse about foreign influence: critics fearmongering about certain countries and allegedly demonizing anyone who is complimentary or fair toward them. The speaker says careers are threatened and people are accused of being foreign agents in one case, while Israel-related foreign influence is treated as normal. They emphasize that if the U.S. treats Russia differently from Israel regarding foreign agents, the same standard should apply to both. They discuss frustration with criticism aimed at people outside the U.S. for caring about democracy and sovereignty, and note that Americans are not portrayed in similar stories to the same extent as prominent pro-Israel media figures. The speaker also argues that foreigners can support Israel verbally without risking lives or bankrolls in the way Americans would. On the war with Iran and the MOU, the speaker says Trump’s shift and signing reflect inability to pursue a military alternative, and that “math is math.” They emphasize that Iran is described as having control over the Strait of Hormuz and that prolonged conflict would worsen economic and material pressures, including a fertilizer crisis, beyond oil and gas. They argue that continuing engagement risks restarting a pointless war, especially given claims that Netanyahu is working to sabotage peace efforts. The speaker highlights Netanyahu’s stated intent to continue offensive actions in Lebanon and questions what the U.S. would do after Iran’s retaliation. Lindsey Graham’s support for the MOU is described as notable, and they debate whether this represents short-term defeat-acknowledgment while planning longer-term sabotage, versus a genuine shift. The speaker says it is difficult to determine directly but claims Israel has exerted pressure on U.S. policy for a long time and suggests the relationship is not based on genuine closeness between Trump and Netanyahu. They state Israel’s acceptance of U.S. support is framed as financially and militarily asymmetrical: the U.S. is described as funding roughly half of Israel’s military and providing major foreign aid, while the speaker claims Israel’s intelligence provided to the U.S. has allegedly pulled the U.S. into wars. A related topic is the potential merger of U.S. and Israeli military and intelligence structures. The speaker calls it “wild,” says it would make it “nearly impossible to get rid of” personnel they describe as Israeli infiltrators, and warns that it could lead to violent domestic upheaval if the trend continues. They also claim Senator Tom Cotton is pushing to merge Mossad and the CIA and call into question whether he is influenced by something like cash. The conversation includes discussion of political outcomes and voter behavior, including a claim that Israel-aligned influence may be “lucky” when fighting happens in primaries because voters are more galvanized and less focused in general elections. They argue that non-voters form a large block, that media division contributes to atomization, and that the system needs change rather than demonizing ordinary citizens. Turning to Israel’s internal perspective, the speaker says Israelis may believe they are entitled to border expansion and claims that U.S. support for decades conditions Israel to think its actions are acceptable. They argue that this makes it harder for Israeli society to undo narratives that justify harming civilians. They reject empathy toward “terrorists,” and claim that when critics label wrongdoing as terrorism, they are accused of anti-Semitism. The transcript discusses Mike Huckabee’s remarks that the U.S. “wouldn’t exist without Israel.” The speaker responds that the U.S. is older than Israel and argues that Israel cannot exist without U.S. support. They also link Huckabee’s stance to evangelical Christian beliefs about Israel’s role in the second coming, stating that those beliefs affect support for the state of Israel. They reference Huckabee’s meeting with Jonathan Pollard (described as a U.S. traitor) and say the White House response was no but there was “no problem,” expressing anger that such actions would not be treated as unacceptable. On whether Trump is under duress, they discuss claims that Trump’s behavior shifted after the 2024 assassination attempt. The speaker says they are not an insider but is influenced by Joe Kent’s claims and says Israel “has the capacity and capability” to carry out assassinations and use blackmail. They continue that Trump’s choices may reflect constraints rather than ideological alignment. Finally, they discuss how much control a U.S. president truly has, describing the deep state, unelected bureaucrats, and agency autonomy as factors that allow decisions to be made without presidential approval, including references to CENTCOM and past claims that “authorization from the U.S.” does not necessarily mean Trump personally authorized actions. The conversation concludes with the speaker expressing hope Trump continues working toward peace, while emphasizing skepticism that the MOU will lead to a lasting peace deal, and warning that U.S. influence structures and institutional autonomy could undermine desired outcomes.

Mario: Daniel, after decades of diplomacy, the Middle East is now at war. Early on you suggested Hormuz and economic leverage; as the conflict evolved, US ground invasion talk, targeted Iranian leadership, and new developments—like JD Vance’s reaction to US intel and Israel striking energy infrastructure in Iran—have shaped concerns that Israel wields outsized influence. Broad question: how did we get here and why? Daniel: There’s a long history of American and Israeli influence in play. There is American agency and a geopolitical logic tying chokepoints like Hormuz to broader aims, such as reasserting US primacy vis-à-vis China. But this doesn’t fully explain how the last 10 yards into war were crossed. Netanyahu’s long effort to shape a strategic environment culminated when he found a president open to using American power in the region. Israel’s strategy appears to be to assert greater regional dominion by leveraging US military power and creating dependencies with Gulf states. Netanyahu reportedly offered the president an actionable plan, including on-the-ground assets, to decapitate Iran’s leadership and spark a broader upheaval, which helped push the White House toward a twelve-day war in June. Israel also presented a narrative of rapid US escalation to secure its aims, while the American interagency process—though deteriorated in recent years—had to interpret unusually aggressive, yet selective, Israeli intelligence and objectives. The result is a complex dynamic where US rhetoric and decisions are deeply entangled with Israeli designs for regional hegemony, an outcome that was not broadly anticipated by many regional partners. Mario: If the US administration had not fully understood Israel’s project, how did this come to pass? And how does Mossad factor in? Daniel: Israel has tremendous access to influence over an American administration through lobbying, media echo chambers, and political finance, which Netanyahu exploited to drive a course toward major confrontation with Iran. Before Trump’s term, Netanyahu was nervous about a president who could pivot against allies; he devised a strategy that culminated in Operation Midnight Hammer and subsequent US-Israeli collaboration, reinforced by the possibility of rapid decapitation of Iran’s leadership. There are reports (and debates) about Mossad presenting on-the-ground assets and the possibility of instigating a street revolution in Iran, which may not have been fully believed by Washington but was persuasive enough to shape policy. The question remains how much of Israeli intelligence makes it to Trump and his inner circle, especially given concerns about cognitive ability and decision-making in the White House at that time. Netanyahu’s aim, according to Daniel, was not simply to topple Iran but to maximize Israel’s regional leverage by using American power while reducing other regional peers’ influence. Mario: What about Gulf states and broader regional realignments? How did the Gulf respond, and what does this mean for their security calculus? Daniel: The Gulf states face a stark dilemma. They fear Iran's retaliatory capabilities but also distrust America’s consistency and question whether US support will be cost-effective. Iran’s strikes into the Gulf have forced Gulf capitals to reassess their reliance on US protection and Israel’s influence, particularly given Israel’s aggressive posture and expanded regional footprint—Lebanon, Syria, and Gaza—with potential implications for the Gulf’s own security and economic interests. Some Gulf actors worry about over-dependence on American security assurances while Israel intensifies operational reach. The GCC’s calculus is shifting: they confront a choice between continuing alignment with the US-Israel bloc or seeking more independent security arrangements. The possibility of a broader Gulf-Israel axis, or at least closer coordination, is tempered by concerns over long-term regional stability, public opinion, and the risk of escalation. Mario: How has this affected perceptions of Iran, Israel, and the broader regional order? Has the Gulf’s stance shifted? Daniel: The region’s balance has been unsettled. Iran’s actions have damaged Gulf trust in its neighbors’ security guarantees, while Israel’s aggressive posture and reliance on US power have complicated Gulf states’ calculations. Turkey’s role is pivotal as it balances concerns about Iran and Israel, while also watching how the region realigns. The possibility of a future where Iran’s power is weakened is weighed against the risk of destabilization and long-term security costs. Negotiations between the US, Iran, and regional actors—stoked by Turkish diplomacy and shifting Gulf positions—are ongoing, with Turkey signaling that diplomacy remains important, even as Gulf states reassess their security dependencies. Mario: What about Lebanon and Hezbollah, and the potential for broader spillover? Daniel: Lebanon faces severe consequences: displacement, civilian harm, and a domestic political paralysis that complicates relations with Israel. Hezbollah remains a factor, with ongoing tensions in Lebanon and the South. Israel’s goal of establishing security-control in Lebanon risks reigniting long-standing conflicts, while Lebanon’s government seeks a balance that could prevent further escalation, if possible. The broader picture is that Israel’s approach—driven by a perceived need to neutralize Iran and all potential threats—could provoke wider regional blowback, complicating already fragile domestic politics across the Levant. Mario: Final thoughts as the war unfolds? Daniel: Israel’s strategic ambitions appear to extend beyond countering Iran to shaping a broader order in which it remains the dominant regional power, aided by US military leverage. Gulf states face a difficult reorientation, reassessing longstanding alliances in light of perceptions of US reliability. The coming months will reveal whether regional actors can recalibrate toward diplomatic resolutions or wind up in a deeper, more protracted conflict. The question remains whether a political path could replace military escalation, and whether external powers can deter further aggression and stabilize the region without allowing a broader conflagration.

Ashwin Rutansi opens from The UAE, noting the expiration of the nuclear arms treaty and highlighting global flashpoints: a USS Abraham Lincoln shot down an Iranian drone in the Gulf, ongoing talks among Witkoff, Arakashi, and Kushner in Oman, Russia–USA discussions in the UAE, the Rafa crossing between Gaza and Egypt amid continuing Palestinian violence, and Washington’s deployment of troops to Nigeria with 26 airstrikes in Somalia in January. He mentions the UK-backed assassination of Saif Gaddafi in Libya as an example of NATO’s impact on Africa, and notes BRICS’ alignment with Iran, China, and Russia against NATO actions. The discussion of who really controls NATO is framed around the 3,000,000 Epstein files, suggesting they reveal Zionist nuclear strategies and naming Ari Ben Menashe, an Israeli intelligence asset, as a figure connected to these issues. Ari Ben Menashe joins from Montreal to discuss the Epstein materials and their potential impact on Trump. He says the Epstein files appear to be a distraction from broader world events, with some material out and some not, and asserts there is “nothing about Trump really in what they released recently,” calling it a distraction. He suggests Israelis hold sensitive information and might release it when threatened by Trump, implying Israeli influence over the DOJ’s handling of the material. Rutansi presses on whether the Times of Israel’ s focus on Trump being compromised by Israel and Jared Kushner is connected to Chabad Lubavitch, and Ben Menashe traces Epstein’s recruitment to Maxwell and Ehud Barak in the 1980s, alleging a broader network compromising American and other politicians. The conversation touches Tony Blair’s alleged role in Gaza peace plans and the suggestion that Blair is a “wrong choice.” Ben Menashe recounts that Ehud Barak previously had an East Jerusalem office under Israeli control and notes changes in Israeli policy toward Hamas under Netanyahu. They discuss MI6’s involvement in a Libyan assassination and whether Epstein’s material implicates Putin or Russians, with Ben Menashe asserting that portraying Epstein as a Russian agent is a cover‑up linked to Israeli interests. Rutansi and Ben Menashe discuss ongoing US–Iran talks, with expectations of an embassy exchange and sanctions relief, while Netanyahu might sabotage any real deal by releasing Epstein material against US officials. Ben Menashe asserts Trump would like a deal with the Iranians, a view tied to past efforts at ending hostilities in the region. The dialogue covers Epstein’s network, alleged Israeli and MI6 involvement, and the role of Tony Blair and Qatar’s prime minister in the files. Ben Menashe describes Netanyahu as a “real problem” for the US and regional stability, and claims that Netanyahu could press a nuclear button if needed, illustrating the “Sampson Option” by Sy Hersh. They debate the possible collapse of Netanyahu’s leadership and the risk of a nuclear exchange in the region. Toward the end, Rutansi asks about justice for women trafficked by Epstein, and Ben Menashe doubts that families will receive justice, predicting more noise rather than accountability. The program closes with a preview of reporting on the World Government Summit in Dubai and a promotion of Going Underground’s online channel.

The conversation begins with discussion of a sudden shift in US/Iran-Israel rhetoric and a development reported as Iran suspending its delegation trip to Switzerland for the opening round of nuclear negotiations. The initial source cited is Al Mayadeen. Iran’s stated reason is ongoing Israeli military operations in southern Lebanon. Iran argues that Israel operating more than six miles inside Lebanese territory violates Article 1 of the MOU, which calls for an immediate end to hostilities on all fronts, including Lebanon, and therefore Iran says there is “nothing to go to Geneva for” if the ceasefire clause is being breached before negotiations begin. The transcript also notes that Donald Trump posted a call for a complete ceasefire on all fronts, including Lebanon, Hezbollah, and Israel. The discussion then shifts to the “wild card” described as Israel and whether Trump can reign in Netanyahu. Colonel argues that Israeli leadership and US supporters were instrumental in putting Trump into the White House and that they are turning current events into a “test of Jewish power,” aiming to bully Trump back into attacking Iran. He claims this is where events are headed. He also references a CNN report that Netanyahu is reportedly lobbying to shape the final US-Iran agreement by pressuring Trump through allies and intermediaries in Washington, mobilizing pro-Israeli senators and media allies. The transcript further states Netanyahu believes a final agreement will be reached but remains concerned Tehran will not uphold commitments, and that Netanyahu said “we will restore security to the north” by keeping the security zone in southern Lebanon as long as Israel’s security needs require. Asked whether Trump can withstand pressure, Colonel states he believes Trump and Iran “collectively reached the point” where they see no point in further war. He describes what he says was Trump’s private impression earlier in political interactions: Trump did not want a war with Iran, thought an arrangement could be reached, and was focused on the United States. Colonel claims Trump’s transformation began with Ukraine, and later shifted into belligerence. He says that at the beginning of the collision with Iran, Trump used language around sending B-2 bombers and said “the war is over,” but that he “couldn’t do it,” and became concerned about financial markets, polls, and the economy. Colonel claims Trump kept repeating that the war would end soon, but that the only way to end it was to end it, not by talking and not by a military solution. Colonel further claims Trump did not want to use a nuclear weapon and that it was “off the table.” Colonel then discusses Trump’s relationship with Israel and the MOU as a rough framework. He says Trump finds elements of the framework comfortable, including not meddling in internal affairs and reducing overseas entanglements. He also claims Trump had conversations with Netanyahu and made it clear he does not want Israel to go nuclear. Colonel portrays Trump’s decision-making as attempting to bring the conflict to closure, after concluding bombing would not work. He says Trump may have been shown information about Israel’s actions in Gaza and Lebanon that contributed to a change in how Trump framed the issue, and he references Trump’s comments about destroying an entire apartment building to eliminate one person. The transcript moves into a broader argument about long-term regional power shifts. Colonel says the two powers that will emerge are Iran and Turkey, and that they will dominate the Middle East for decades. He distinguishes them, asserting Iran will coexist and can be talked to and do business, while provoking Turkey would be “a fight to the finish.” He argues Turkey has a martial character and cites its military effectiveness as being among the top five in the world. When asked about Turkey’s military capabilities, he emphasizes not only technology but human material and soldier character, adding a cultural reference about a funeral song for Turkish soldiers. Colonel then presents “ISR-Strike” as the strategic change behind modern warfare, linking surveillance and standoff attack systems, and claims that this makes older power projection methods less effective. He argues the world must change and criticizes calls to reset to past patterns of “go back in and bomb some more,” drawing analogies to historical Roman limits. In this context, he says Trump understands the need for change and “cutting losses.” Asked whether Israel could sabotage negotiations by continuing strikes and whether Trump could refuse to support Israel even defensively, Colonel says what the question describes is “almost already happening,” pointing to Israeli shelling and a likely effort to attack Hizballah positions. He says Israel needs US assistance with munitions, missiles, and intelligence, and argues that Netanyahu would pressure Washington through officials and lawmakers to force support. Colonel also states he is “genuinely concerned” about the president’s safety. Later, the conversation turns to speculation about how pressure could escalate beyond normal political attacks. Colonel suggests that investigations could be launched involving members of the president’s family, pointing to personal wealth growth and potential exploitation of “unsavory” matters, and references “the Epstein files” as something that could return to center stage. He then argues that escalating outcomes can range from orchestrated efforts to unexpected attempts, comparing to historical assassination attempts. He says calls for resignation are not what he supports at that moment, arguing resignation should occur after closing the chapter. Finally, the discussion addresses how much agency the president and commanders have within the system. The transcript cites claims from CENTCOM and other departments that commanders have less agency than expected and that higher-level elected officials similarly have constraints due to bureaucratic structures, service hierarchies, confirmation processes, and lobbying. Colonel ties this to a broader system of incentives and limited political time for presidents to accomplish objectives, concluding with a reference to his book “A Margin of Victory: Five Battles That Changed the Face of War, Modern Warfare.”

The conversation centers on Israel’s war with Iran and its broader regional implications, with Speaker 0 (an Israeli prime minister) offering his assessment and critiques, and Speaker 1 pushing for clarification on motives, strategy, and policy directions. Key points about the Iran war and its origins - Speaker 0 recalls learning of the war on February 28 in Washington, and states his initial reaction: the United States’ claim that Iran is an enemy threatening annihilation of Israel is understandable and something to be supported, but questions what the next steps and the endgame would be. - He argues that Iran, through proxies like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis, posed a global and regional threat by arming missiles and pursuing nuclear capacity, and asserts that Iran deserved punishment for its actions. He raises the question of whether the outcome could have been achieved without war through a prior agreement supervised by international bodies. - He emphasizes that the lack of a clear, articulated next step or strategy undermines the legitimacy of the war’s continuation, even as he concedes the necessity of addressing Iran’s nuclear ambitions. - He also notes that the war affected the global economy and regional stability, and stresses the importance of coordinating a path that would end hostilities and stabilize the region. Speaker 1’s analysis and queries about U.S. interests and Netanyahu’s influence - Speaker 1 questions the rationale behind U.S. involvement, suggesting that strategic interests around the Strait of Hormuz and Iran’s nuclear program were not the only drivers, and cites reporting that Netanyahu presented Iran as weak to push Trump toward regime change, with limited pushback within the U.S. administration. - He asks how much influence Netanyahu had over Trump, and whether the war was pushed by Netanyahu or driven by broader strategic calculations, including concerns about global economic consequences. - He notes that, even if Iran was making concessions on nuclear issues, the war’s continuation raises concerns about broader U.S. and global interests and the potential damage to European and allied relationships. Israeli-Lebanese dimension and Hezbollah - The discussion moves to Lebanon and the question of a ground presence in the South of Lebanon. Speaker 1 asks whether Netanyahu’s administration intends annexation of Lebanese territory and whether there is a real risk of such plans, given the recent destruction of villages and the broader context of regional diplomacy. - Speaker 0 distinguishes between military necessity and political strategy. He says the ground operation in southern Lebanon is unnecessary because Hezbollah missiles extend beyond 50 kilometers from the border, and he argues for negotiating a peace process with Lebanon, potentially aided by the international community (notably France), to disarm Hezbollah as part of a larger framework. - He asserts that there are voices in the Israeli cabinet that view South Lebanon as part of a Greater Israel and would seek annexation, but he insists that such annexation would be unacceptable in Israel and that disarming Hezbollah should be tied to a broader peace with Lebanon and Iran’s agreement if a negotiations-based settlement is reached. - The idea of integrating Hezbollah into the Lebanese military is rejected as artificial; disarmament is preferred, with the caveat that Hezbollah could not be dissolved as a military force if Iran remains a principal backer. Speaker 0 suggests that a Hezbollah disarmed and integrated into Lebanon’s political-military system would require careful design, potentially with international participation, to prevent Hezbollah from acting as an independent proxy. War crimes and accountability - The participants discuss imagery like a soldier breaking a statue of Jesus and broader allegations of misconduct during the Gaza war. Speaker 0 condemns the act as outrageous and unacceptable, while Speaker 1 notes that individual soldier actions do not represent an entire army and contrasts external reactions to abuses with a broader critique of proportionality in Gaza. - Speaker 0 acknowledges that there were crimes against humanity and war crimes by Israel, rejects genocide, and endorses investigations and accountability for those responsible, while criticizing the political leadership’s rhetoric and the behavior of certain ministers. - They touch on the controversial death-penalty bill for Palestinians convicted of lethal attacks, with Speaker 0 characterizing the Israeli government as run by “thugs” and criticizing ministers for celebratory conduct, while Speaker 1 argues that such rhetoric inflames tensions. Two-state solution and long-term vision - The conversation culminates in Speaker 0 presenting a long-standing two-state plan: a two-state solution based on 1967 borders, with East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine, and the Old City of Jerusalem not under exclusive sovereignty but administered by a five-nation trust (Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Palestine, Israel, and the United States). - He asserts that this approach represents an alternative to the current government’s policies and reiterates his commitment to opposing Netanyahu’s administration until it is replaced. - They close with mutual acknowledgment of the need for a durable peace framework and reiterate that Hezbollah’s disarmament must be a condition for normalization between Israel and Lebanon, while cautioning against artificial or compromised arrangements that would leave Hezbollah armed or entrenched.

Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson joins the program with host Glenn to discuss the escalating tensions around Iran, the U.S. leadership, and the broader geopolitical and economic implications. The conversation centers on what is driving recent White House actions, the potential paths forward, and the risks of cascading consequences. Key points and insights: - Trump’s countdown to strike Iran: Wilkerson interprets Trump’s 48-hour, then 5-, then 10-day countdowns on Iran’s energy facilities as an attempt to buy time rather than a clear plan for escalation. He suggests Trump is trying to stall and manage narratives while lacking a credible path out of the crisis. - Reasons Trump is escalating: Wilkerson argues Trump is “buying time to be buying time,” unable to articulate a feasible exit strategy. He posits that the main driver of the escalation is a realization by Trump that he’s deeply entangled, with Bibi Netanyahu as the principal ally who would abandon him in a crisis. - Global force posture and limits: The administration is assembling various special operations forces (e.g., 1st SOG, rangers from multiple locations) and delivery/ extraction capabilities, but Wilkerson believes a full invasion is not feasible and would risk impeachment. He notes the use of dispersed forces and high-end delivery systems akin to operations in Venezuela, stressing the operational and strategic implausibility of a large-scale invasion of Iran. - Iranian diplomacy and leadership: Wilkerson cites Iranian diplomacy as sidelined by U.S. actions. He highlights a UN emergency meeting where Iraqi officials criticized the U.S. and Israel for “two bullying nuclear weapons regimes” and condemned the “torpedoing of diplomacy,” pointing to the broader frustration with the international handling of the Palestinian-Israeli situation. He criticizes Witkoff and Kushner as ineffective in negotiating with Iran and notes a strong Iranian stance emphasizing an end to what they view as aggression. - Domestic political dynamics: Wilkerson criticizes both U.S. parties for their current leadership, accusing figures like Keane, Hagel, and Trump of mismanaging the crisis. He rails against the influence of evangelical and political figures who advocate Old Testament-style rhetoric in modern policy, arguing it contributes to destructive escalation. - Economic and global ripple effects: The war threatens the global economy, with consequences such as disruptions to the Strait of Hormuz impacting helium, urea, and broader trade. Wilkerson warns that the world could experience a global recession, potentially spiraling into a depression, due to shipping bottlenecks and energy-price shocks. - Strait of Hormuz and strategic chokepoints: A recurring theme is the vulnerability created by critical chokepoints. Wilkerson references his naval analysis of global straits and identifies Hormuz as a significant vulnerability, though not necessarily the most critical, with Bab el-Mandeb potentially more serious. - Israel’s situation and nuclear considerations: Discussion turns to Israel’s military situation in Gaza and Lebanon, Netanyahu’s political decisions, and the potential for Israel to face internal collapse or drastic shifts. Wilkerson raises the hypothetical that Iran could seek a nuclear deterrent if faced with existential threats and notes concerns about how the U.S. and Israel might respond to an Iranian nuclear capability. - Possible exit routes and diplomacy: When pressed for a pathway out, Wilkerson suggests a drastic but unlikely option: declare victory and leave, lifting sanctions and pressuring allies to do the same, including pressuring Europe to support rebuilding Iran. He emphasizes this as a potentially politically expedient exit for Trump, though he doubts it will happen. - Nuclear entanglements and further escalation: The conversation turns to the risk of nuclear exchange if Iran develops a deterrent and if Israel or the U.S. decide to escalate further. Wilkerson outlines a scenario in which limited U.S. forces strike Gulf targets, provoking Iranian retaliation that could escalate into a broader regional conflict with nuclear implications, given multiple nuclear powers’ capabilities. - Long-term outlook: Wilkerson references the broader implications for the global order, noting the dangers of imperial hubris post-Cold War, and warns that multiple dimensions—military, economic, and diplomatic—are converging toward a dangerous crossroads. He asserts that the current trajectory could threaten global stability and the viability of traditional alliance structures. In sum, Wilkerson presents a troubling synthesis: Trump’s incremental escalation appears aimed at time-buying without a credible exit; Iran’s leadership responds with strategic diplomacy and potential deterrence considerations; Israel faces internal and regional pressures; and the global economy and critical chokepoints amplify the risk that the conflict could spiral into a larger, harder-to-control crisis. He emphasizes the dangerous mix of leadership missteps, strategic miscalculations, and existential stakes that could reshuffle the regional and global order.

Netanyahu may be pushing for regime change in Iran to distract from his political troubles at home, as he recently survived a vote of no confidence by only two votes. The speaker believes the focus on Iran's nuclear program is a pretext, as North Korea poses a greater nuclear threat to the U.S. because they possess the bomb, delivery system, and reentry vehicle, unlike Iran. While Iran's rhetoric is hostile, North Korea openly threatens to wipe out US cities. The speaker suggests a diplomatic approach with Iran, similar to Trump's approach with North Korea, but acknowledges Iran has expelled IAEA inspectors, raising concerns about a secret nuclear program. The speaker points out that Israel, which also possesses nuclear weapons, allows no international inspections. While not judging Israel's nuclear ambitions, the speaker deems it hypocritical to initiate a regime change war over secret nuclear weapons when Israel has them too. The speaker proposes a deal where both Iran and Israel give up their secret nuclear weapon programs, suggesting Trump could broker such a deal.

The discussion centers on shifting U.S. rhetoric toward Iran and Israel amid negotiations and escalating conflict. As the interview goes live, news reports Iran suspended its trip to Switzerland for the opening round of nuclear negotiations. Iran’s stated reason is ongoing Israeli military operations in southern Lebanon, arguing Israel is operating over six miles inside Lebanese territory in violation of Article 1 of the MOU calling for an immediate end to hostilities on all fronts, including Lebanon. Iran says if the ceasefire clause is being breached before negotiations begin, there is nothing to go to Geneva for. Trump is also described as posting a call for a complete ceasefire on all fronts, including Lebanon, Hezbollah, and Israel. The interview then focuses on Israel as a “wild card” in the MOU and whether Trump can restrain Netanyahu. The colonel says Israeli leadership and U.S. billionaire supporters helped put Trump into office and are turning current events into “a test of Jewish power,” aiming to pressure Trump back into attacking Iran. He argues this approach reflects disproportionate influence already held by these actors, and predicts efforts to bully the president toward war. A CNN report is referenced describing Netanyahu lobbying to shape the final U.S.-Iran agreement by pressuring Trump through allies and intermediaries in Washington, mobilizing pro-Israeli senators and media allies. Netanyahu is said to believe a final agreement will be reached but is concerned Tehran will not uphold it. Separately, Netanyahu is described as saying Israel will restore security to the north through maintaining a security zone in southern Lebanon until Israel’s security needs require it, which the interviewer links to Netanyahu rallying U.S. influence to pressure Trump. When asked whether Trump can withstand this pressure, the colonel describes a transformation in Trump’s foreign-policy posture: he says Trump did not want a war with Iran, believed an arrangement could be reached, and showed reluctance to go to war generally. The colonel describes interruptions in foreign-policy dialogue after Ukraine in April 2022, then describes increasing belligerence around the early Iran conflict, including an account of Trump’s expectation that military action could end the war quickly. He then says Trump concluded the approach was not going well, became concerned about financial markets and the U.S. economy, and that the repeated claim “this war is going to end soon” could not end the conflict without a closure. The colonel argues Trump found no military solution and that using a nuclear weapon was “off the table.” He frames Trump’s challenge as dealing with Israel in a context where only an MOU exists as a rough framework, and highlights provisions aligned with Trump’s instincts, including not meddling in internal affairs and desire for forces to return home. He claims Trump was shown information about atrocities by Israelis against people in Gaza and Lebanon and that Trump’s statement about not needing to destroy an entire apartment building to eliminate one person reflects a broader realization. The colonel says some people are calling for Trump’s resignation because he “lost a war,” and responds that major powers do not achieve permanent “perfect victory streaks,” but instead must cut losses and move on. The colonel argues that future power in the Middle East will be dominated by Iran and Turkey, describing them as different from Israel and emphasizing that provoking Turkey would lead to a “fight to the finish.” He argues Israel’s existential threat is not Iran but Turkey, and contends that Israel and others are operating in a changing global environment where ISR-strike complexes and persistent surveillance plus standoff attack weapons enable new defensive and offensive capabilities. He concludes that the war must be brought to an end because the world has fundamentally changed and efforts to “reset it to backwards” are tied to calls for bombing more. A question is raised about how escalation could work if Israel continues strikes in Lebanon and Iran retaliates, and Trump chooses not to get involved, including not intercepting missiles. The colonel replies that this is “almost already happening,” citing Israeli shelling from southern Lebanon artillery positions and predicting Israel will attack Hizballah positions, which he describes as an existential threat for Israel. He says Israel would need U.S. assistance—munitions, missiles, intelligence—and predicts Netanyahu would pressure Trump politically if support were withheld, including threats aimed at Trump’s political survival. He also says he is “genuinely concerned” about the president’s safety. The conversation then shifts to claimed political and systemic factors limiting presidential agency and the possibility of escalation beyond normal pressure campaigns. The colonel suggests investigations involving members of the president’s family and references wealth growth and “Epstein files” as elements that could return to center stage. He also describes how criminal or political actions and unpredictable events have historically led leaders to be removed or harmed, and compares concerns to the experience of President Kennedy’s assassination. When discussing how pressure campaigns could become more sinister, he outlines ways investigations, media narratives, and orchestrated blame could be pursued. Near the end, the colonel discusses how broader U.S. and military bureaucracies operate, stating commanders can be constrained by service chiefs and confirmed positions, and arguing that institutional incentives discourage independent action. He recommends his book “A Margin of Victory: Five Battles That Changed the Face of War, Modern Warfare,” and says it addresses the limits of what government can accomplish on an average day due to other people’s decisions and confirmed constraints. The interview closes with the colonel referencing a Substack piece coming out Sunday or Monday discussing a shift in power and asserting that Iran has won the war and is “invincible,” “humbled, but not broken.”

Glenn welcomes Seyyed Mohammad Marandi, a professor at Tehran University and former advisor to Iran’s nuclear negotiation team, to discuss the fast-escalating conflict involving Israel, Iran, Lebanon, and the region. Marandi says that while in Tehran—busy interviewing Ph.D. candidates—he did not hear airstrikes, though he understands several missile strikes occurred. Marandi frames the situation as unfavorable for the “Americans” and says Iranian missile strikes have been effective. He describes Iran’s retaliation as occurring after Israel’s attacks on Lebanon and Israel’s subsequent attacks on Iran, and claims Iran fired “five waves of missiles” and then large numbers afterward, with the total approaching “a hundred.” He also says Trump posted on Truth Social calling for action “to end this immediately,” while Marandi argues the United States had no intention of bringing about a ceasefire in Lebanon. Marandi contends that Lebanese leadership—including the president and prime minister—concluded negotiations against Lebanese law and received “death” in return, citing an Israeli bombing of a Lebanese military convoy soon after a CNN interview by Lebanon’s president attacking Iran. He adds that Lebanese authorities allegedly prevent refugees from moving within Lebanon, “corner” Shia-majority refugees, and try to make the situation sectarian, with Western NGOs and embassies encouraging restrictions in neighborhoods. He further alleges that proxies in Syria and Lebanon are working with Israel to keep borders closed and block assistance coming from Iran or Iraq, while claiming people nevertheless gather aid in Iran and Iraq that cannot be sent into Lebanon. He argues Iran and Hezbollah have continued striking effectively even during escalation, and suggests Iranian actions are tied to preventing Israeli plans to level areas of Beirut, describing a shift in Iran’s deterrence posture. Marandi says Iran warned that if Israel bombed Beirut, Iran would strike the Israeli regime, and that Israel refrained from striking Beirut for several days before resuming after the Pakistani interior minister delivered a message (Pakistan as mediator). He says the pattern mirrors earlier instances where U.S. attacks were met by larger Iranian counterstrikes. Discussing U.S. strategy, Marandi says the U.S. and allies appear to seek “low intensity” escalation to weaken and intimidate Iran while avoiding a “hot war,” but he claims Iran’s responses have instead sent signals that Iran is prepared to restart a more explosive war. He highlights that Iran has allegedly shut down the Strait of Hormuz and that, following Yemen’s announced disruption of Israel’s Red Sea access, Marandi says escalation stakes increase further. When asked about potential negotiations, Marandi says what matters to Iran is not Trump’s statements but what his regime does. He lists Iran’s stated terms: end to the war in Lebanon, regime retreat, end to the slaughter in Gaza, lifting siege, waiving sanctions on Iran’s oil/energy exports for the duration, and returning “stolen assets.” He argues Iran will not provide concessions that go beyond those conditions. On U.S.-Israel relations, Marandi addresses Axios reporting about differences between Trump and Netanyahu and says the publication itself matters because it portrays Netanyahu as despised and “crazy,” which he says damaged Netanyahu politically in Israel and also in the United States. He suggests a possible objective of weakening Netanyahu and emphasizes that Trump’s public disavowal (“I told him not to attack”) is undermining. Marandi then turns to what Iran may do next as escalation rises. He says Iran has changed the “rules of the game” by signaling that strikes on Lebanon trigger retaliation. He claims Iran will retaliate not only for attacks on itself but for attacks on Lebanon and, in further statements, for attacks on petrochemical and Persian Gulf energy-related installations affiliated with the United States or Israel. He asserts Iran threatens to strike Persian Gulf infrastructure and “the Americans too,” and says this extends Iran’s deterrence beyond Israel. He also says Hezbollah’s drones and ambush-style strikes harm the regime, while Iran’s deterrence against touching Beirut hampers offensive capability. Marandi concludes that he does not foresee a favorable outcome for the United States or Israel, and says the global economy remains close to a worsening point as the conflict intensifies. As a “footnote,” he says Iran carried out an operation on the Pakistan border against Wahhabi/Salafi militants, killing some and capturing others, portraying multiple extremist groups as attacking the same enemies rather than Israel.

Speaker 0 says a piece about Israel’s “obscene treatment” of Speaker 0’s country has an obvious takeaway that America’s “special ally is not actually an ally,” and that NBC News did not want readers to realize this. Speaker 0 claims the report’s authors repeatedly inserted “globalist propaganda” into the story, including the neocon talking point that Israelis are America’s “special friends,” while still presenting “eye-opening” information about Israel spying. Speaker 0 argues that throughout the entire NBC News piece, there is continued praise for Israel as “our greatest ally” and “special friend.” Speaker 1 says the piece lays praise on Israel and is about Israel spying, which they find “reprehensible.” Speaker 1 describes decades of belief that Israel is America’s best ally, an “island of democracy” amid “sea of chaos” in the Middle East, and that many Jewish people Speaker 1 personally knew seemed “like really good people.” Speaker 1 says that as “growing physical evidence” has emerged that Israel is “not quite who we thought they were” and that Israel “definitely” abuses America, the situation has become normalized. Speaker 1 claims that even when things have come out, “no action has been taken,” leading Israel to be “a little bit more bold,” doing actions “out in the open.” Speaker 1 cites an example involving Netanyahu and Lebanon: Speaker 1 says Netanyahu stated that a stop to fighting in Lebanon is a “non-negotiable requirement” for Iran to end the war, and that Speaker 1 believes Netanyahu will “do what I want anyway,” even if President Trump intervenes. Speaker 1 says Speaker 1 expects Trump may “hold off for a day or two,” but that Israel “they’re fighting again today.” Speaker 1 asks why the U.S. continues to support Israel and provide it with ammunition, weapons, political cover, and diplomatic cover “to keep doing things directly antithetical to our interests?” Speaker 0 responds, “It’s so frustrating.”

The United States made a poor decision entering a deal that has emboldened Iran, leading them to believe they can act without consequence. There’s a strong assurance that Iran will never possess Israeli weapons. Netanyahu was brought into the conversation, and there’s a sense of disbelief about his involvement. The discussion touches on the opinions of figures like Nick Fuentes and Ye, indicating that their views are not favorable. There’s a humorous exchange about Netanyahu’s reputation and the speaker’s unfamiliarity with him until recently, highlighting a mix of seriousness and levity in the conversation.

More than 40 times, an agreement between the United States and the Islamic Republic of Iran has been described as reached and merely pending the Iranian government’s signature, with details allegedly initialed and carved in various parchments and even stone—but there is still no peace agreement. The speaker says Iranian missiles will fly again “tonight.” They also claim Benjamin Netanyahu is “brazenly” assassinating and murdering people in Beirut while Donald Trump has stated that no further bombing of Beirut is permissible. The speaker presents two conclusions: either Trump cannot control Netanyahu, who is positioned as the prime minister of a country described as existing entirely through American largesse (financial, diplomatic, political, and military), or there is an inference that the relationship’s true nature allows continued actions despite U.S. instructions. The speaker argues there is no sense in which Trump is ordering Netanyahu to do things he refuses to do, framing an alternative “good cop, bad cop” dynamic. They reference a “Brian Berletek” school of thought and say people in Hong Kong have suggested the Trump-Netanyahu relationship is “organic,” though the speaker notes they currently take the other side of the argument. The speaker insists there are only two alternatives regarding Trump’s ability or willingness to curb Israel’s behavior, which they say has scuppered any possibility of even a memorandum of understanding (MOU), never mind a deal. They state Trump has filled airwaves and news for days claiming the war is over, but say it is not over and assert Iran will be attacking Israel “tonight.” The speaker asks what America will do about that, and says powerful forces in the American political system and the global political system will demand Trump come to the aid of the man Trump says he is “mightily pissed off with.” They conclude that Trump has not taken any action resembling kicking Netanyahu out despite apparent dependence.

Afshin Ratansi opens by saying J.D. Vance recently met Iran’s foreign minister Abbas Araghchi in Switzerland after what he describes as “capitulation” in the Trump-Netanyahu war in Iran, ahead of additional treaties signed in Versailles. Ratansi also says Israel continues to violate a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), with continued civilian slaughter in Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank, while other NATO nations allegedly continue funding the war on Russia through Ukraine. He frames Trump and Netanyahu as facing political jeopardy ahead of U.S. midterms and October quasi-elections on occupied land. Max Blumenthal responds to incoming Mossad chief Roman Goffman, discussing David Barnea’s prior stance that Israel will destroy Iran’s governance regardless of the MOU. Blumenthal describes what he calls Barnea’s failure: Kurdish groups allegedly backed by the U.S. (Komale and PJAK) under U.S. air cover to invade Iran and spark a mass uprising along ethnic lines, which he says went nowhere because the Kurdish groups could not advance without U.S. firepower and because U.S. firepower was described as brittle against Iran’s anti-aircraft capabilities. Blumenthal says Iran allegedly obtained Russian technology that cut off Starlink, and he says Naftali Bennett, leading the Israeli opposition, complained that Netanyahu eliminated special intelligence programs to fund Starlink for potential regime-change “chaos agents,” while Bennett pushed for more Starlink. He says Israel cannot act without U.S. firepower and the U.S. would not commit the men and material needed to break Iran’s deterrence. Blumenthal adds that he expects further efforts resembling the same approach, and says any attempt to unravel the MOU or the deal would focus on Lebanon—where he says the Lebanon “file” is mentioned multiple times in the MOU—along with escalation there and targeting the United States through proxies such as AIPAC, paid influencers, or other means. Ratansi then asks how liberal NGOs, media, and Amnesty International/Human Rights Watch could have “fertilized the field” for war growth, referencing protests inside Iran. Blumenthal ties the riots and subsequent war dynamics to what he calls the “liberal NGO class” and the Democratic Party, and he describes the timeline as beginning January 7–8 with protests in marketplaces that he says were transformed into violent regime-change riots. He describes large-scale killings, attacks on mosques, burning of government buildings, and police stations, and he says Amnesty International held protests in Europe calling for intervention or harsher sanctions. He claims Amnesty’s figures (including 40,000) were a hoax and attributes the numbers to monarchist elements tied to Reza Pahlavi, and says the “responsibility to protect” (R2P) narrative has parallels he links to Yugoslavia. Blumenthal says outside intelligence forces guided the unrest, and he references alleged U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant claims that the U.S. manipulated Iranian currency to cause a currency crisis and fan the flames, which he says ultimately failed because the Iranian government defended itself. He further connects these events to a sequence of conflicts including a “12-day war” and an “Operation Epstein-Fury,” which he says began with the assassination of Iran’s leadership, including its Ayatollah on February 28. He argues Democrats and the Biden administration set conditions by supporting Israel’s escalation in southern Lebanon in October 2024 instead of pushing a ceasefire in Gaza, and he cites Tony Blinken, Jake Sullivan, and Amos Hochstein. Blumenthal also says Amos Hochstein declared in a CNN interview that the Biden administration was preparing to support an assault on Iran, with the alleged issue being Trump’s execution. Ratansi later asks whether capital forces and capitalism are a choke point. Blumenthal responds by arguing the MOU will fail and Iran could close maritime routes, including closing Bab al-Mandeb to affect commodities and energy prices. He says the U.S. cannot force outcomes because of an oligarchy and an “Israel lobby” exploiting campaign-finance openings, but that the Strait of Hormuz remains closed due to Iran’s deterrence doctrine. He also mentions Donald Trump firing the top Iran expert at the National Security Council after comments by Laura Loomer, and he says that expert warned that attacking Iran would lead to closing the Strait of Hormuz. Blumenthal claims the Zionist movement faces “hard rocks of reality” tied to capitalist classes sensing consequences through gas prices. Blumenthal says the likely U.S. side effect is more repression of dissident movements, citing a 100-year sentence for anarchists involved in an incident outside an ICE facility in Texas and DHS designations. He says U.S. public mass protests are absent but that disgust with Trump and Israel has become a major election issue, with candidates campaigning against AIPAC and some AIPAC-sponsored figures losing primaries. He says Zionist lobbying is in “panic mode,” with remaining tools described as bombing, censorship, and criminalizing opponents. He then discusses donors and leverage, saying Israel has proxies in Congress and that he believes Trump feels used and cannot find an exit ramp. He says JD Vance’s situation could be favorable because the American public wants the war to end but not Trump to be the one blamed. Blumenthal references claims about assassination plots allegedly used to push Trump toward authorizing Operation Epstein-Fury, describing alleged figures within FBI-linked plots and an alleged Pakistani national Asif Murshid. He adds another alleged attempt to frame Butler, Pennsylvania as an Iran-linked plot, and he describes Mike Waltz as a key figure he says tried to convince Trump Iran directed an attempted lone-wolf killing. He claims this framing involved pushes by figures including Benjamin Netanyahu and Nikki Haley. Ratansi asks about prospects for a third party based on a new MAGA base including Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and others. Blumenthal says Tucker Carlson has said he is leaving the Republican Party and that a third party started by Carlson would likely kneecap a Vance successor, but that Tucker’s leverage over Vance could function as a restraint on future wars. He says other expelled Republican figures such as Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massey could join a coalition, while on the left the DSA is making itself a faction within the Democratic Party and the Green Party is denied ballot access through mechanisms he links to the Democratic Party. Finally, Ratansi asks whether Trump will pivot toward Ukraine or Russia. Blumenthal says Trump needs a win and might pivot to Cuba, and he says pivoting to Russia would be disastrous and increase chances of escalations, describing the national security state as addicted to war and using drone warfare learned through the Ukraine conflict as profitable and as a laboratory. He says if Trump pivots toward peace he would collide with that national security state. He ends by saying he thinks there is an increasing chance of a NATO state—probably in the Baltics—being attacked as a staging base for attacks on Russia and on Russian critical infrastructure.

George W. Bush is described as becoming the 43rd U.S. president, and news reports state that a plane crashed into the World Trade Center, with a second plane hitting shortly afterward and major explosions occurring, including in Washington, D.C., with smoke reported over the Pentagon. Additional information is reported that Building 7 in the World Trade Center complex was on fire and either collapsed or was collapsing. A question is raised about why Building 7 came down given that no plane reportedly hit it, and what Building 7 is. A discussion links late-1990s to mid-2000s work of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) to senior Bush-Cheney administration positions, citing about 17 members in top roles and noting that some, including Feith and Wolfowitz, had worked for Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel and promoted similar programs. A major PNAC paper is identified as “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” (2000). Israel and the September 11 attacks are discussed: Benjamin Netanyahu is said to have publicly stated the attacks were good for Israel. Rumors in the days after September 11 include a report about Middle Eastern men spotted the morning of September 11 near New York City, with investigation leading to questions about whether Israel was conducting espionage on U.S. soil. A witness in New Jersey reports seeing three men on top of a van posing for pictures with the burning Twin Towers; police stopped the van hours later and arrested five men, all identified as Israeli, later turned over to the FBI. Sources say national security database checks showed some men had connections to Israeli intelligence; the FBI sought questions about who they were, why they were at the parking lot, and whether they had advanced knowledge. After 71 days, the five Israelis were deported. U.S. investigators are said to believe Israelis were engaged in spying in and on the U.S., potentially knowing information not shared before September 11. The transcript describes a focus on Israelis claiming to be art students from the University of Jerusalem and Bezalel Academy, repeatedly contacting U.S. government personnel by offering cheap art or handiwork. Documents are said to describe targeting and penetrating military bases, the DEA, FBI, and many government facilities, including secret offices and unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel. Those questioned are said to have stated they served in military intelligence, electronic surveillance intercept units, and/or explosive ordinance units. Eyewitness accounts describe explosions in the World Trade Center, including claims of a basement explosion, loss of structural elements, and numerous secondary explosions with floor-by-floor “popping out” sounds. Another account says a decision was made to “pull” (evacuate or remove personnel/firefighting efforts) after being told they might not contain the fire, and then witnesses observed the building collapse. The transcript includes claims about the Pentagon: in 2002, it says the Pentagon was infiltrated by Mossad, with alleged access through a river entrance and movement within the building, including meetings with officials such as Douglas Fife and Deputy Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, and a statement attributed to Donald Rumsfeld comparing Mossad’s control to not running the building himself. Further claims describe decisions to go to war with Iraq, with a memo described as outlining taking out seven countries in five years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran. Related discussion includes Congress passing the Authorization for Use of Military Force in 2001 and subsequent use of AUMF for other purposes. The transcript also discusses Iran: statements include that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, and that Iran will be stopped only through a credible military threat backed by the United States. A claim attributed to President Trump says the U.S. completed three successful attacks on three nuclear sites in Iran via social media. Finally, the transcript mentions a 1996 “clean break” study associated with Netanyahu, described as a strategy for securing “greater Israel,” and closes by stating that discussing U.S. Middle East policy requires talking about the U.S. relationship with Israel.

- The discussion opens with claims that President Trump says “we’ve won the war against Iran,” but Israel allegedly wants the war to destroy Iran’s entire government structure, requiring boots on the ground for regime change. It’s argued that air strikes cannot achieve regime change and that Israel’s relatively small army would need U.S. ground forces, given Iran’s larger conventional force, to accomplish its objectives. - Senator Richard Blumenthal is cited as warning about American lives potentially being at risk from deploying ground troops in Iran, following a private White House briefing. - The new National Defense Authorization Act is described as renewing the involuntary draft; by year’s end, an involuntary draft could take place in the United States, pending full congressional approval. Dan McAdams of the Ron Paul Institute is described as expressing strong concern, arguing the draft would treat the government as owning citizens’ bodies, a stance attributed to him as supporting a view that “presumption is that the government owns you.” - The conversation contrasts Trump’s public desire to end the war quickly with Netanyahu’s government, which reportedly envisions a much larger military objective in the region, including a demilitarized zone in southern Lebanon akin to Gaza, and a broader aim to remove Hezbollah. The implication is that the United States and Israel may not share the same endgame. - Tucker Carlson is introduced as a guest to discuss these issues and offer predictions about consequences for the American people, including energy disruption, economic impacts, and shifts in U.S. influence in the Persian Gulf. - Carlson responds that he would not credit himself with prescience, but notes predictable consequences: disruption to global energy supplies, effects on the U.S. economy, potential loss of U.S. bases in the Gulf, and a shrinking American empire. He suggests that the war’s true goal may be to weaken the United States and withdraw from the Middle East; he questions whether diplomacy remains viable given the current trajectory. - Carlson discusses Iran’s new supreme leader Khomeini’s communique, highlighting threats to shut Hormuz “forever,” vows to avenge martyrs, and calls for all U.S. bases in the region to be closed. He notes that Tehran asserts it will target American bases while claiming it is not an enemy of surrounding countries, though bombs affect neighbors as well. - The exchange notes Trump’s remarks about possibly using nuclear weapons, and Carlson explains Iran’s internal factions, suggesting some seek negotiated settlements while others push for sustained conflict. Carlson emphasizes that Israel’s leadership may be pushing escalation in ways that diverge from U.S. interests and warns about the dangers of a joint operation with Israel, which would blur U.S. sovereignty in war decisions. - A discussion on the use of a term Amalek is explored: Carlson’s guest explains Amalek from the Old Testament as enemies of the Jewish people, with a historical biblical command to annihilate Amalek, including women and children, which the guest notes Christianity rejects; Netanyahu has used the term repeatedly in the conflict context, which Carlson characterizes as alarming and barbaric. - The guests debate how much influence is exerted in the White House, with Carlson noting limited direct advocacy for war among principal policymakers and attributing decisive pressure largely to Netanyahu’s threats. They question why Israel, a client state of the U.S., is allowed to dictate war steps, especially given the strategic importance of Hormuz and American assets in the region. - They discuss the ethical drift in U.S. policy, likening it to adopting the ethics of the Israeli government, and criticize the idea of targeting family members or civilians as a military strategy. They contrast Western civilization’s emphasis on individual moral responsibility with perceived tribal rationales. - The conversation touches on the potential rise of AI-assisted targeting or autonomous weapons: Carlson’s guest confirms that in some conflicts, targeting decisions have been made by machines with no human sign-off, though in the discussed case a human did press play on the attack. The coordinates and data sources for strikes are scrutinized, with suspicion cast on whether Israel supplied SIGINT or coordinates. - The guests warn about the broader societal impact of war on civil liberties, mentioning the increasing surveillance and the risk that technology could be used to suppress dissent or control the population. They discuss how war accelerates social change and potentially normalizes drastic actions or internal coercion. - The media’s role in selling the war is criticized as “propaganda,” with examples of government messaging and pop culture campaigns (including a White House-supported video game-like portrayal of U.S. military power). They debate whether propaganda can be effective without a clear, articulated rationale for war and without public buy-in. - They question the behavior of mainstream outlets and “access journalism,” arguing that reporters often avoid tough questions about how the war ends, the timetable, and the off-ramps, instead reinforcing government narratives. - In closing, Carlson and his co-hosts reflect on the political division surrounding the war, the erosion of trust in media, and the possibility of rebuilding a coalition of ordinary Americans who want effective governance without perpetual conflict or degradation of civil liberties. Carlson emphasizes a longing for a politics centered on improving lives rather than escalating war. - The segment ends with Carlson’s continued critique of media dynamics, the moral implications of the war, and a call for more transparent discussion about the true aims and consequences of extended military engagement in the region.

The interview is delayed and then resumes, with discussion shifting to major international developments. On Iran-related negotiations scheduled for Saturday, July 11, Speaker 4 says the Pakistanis believe talks will resume by then, but multiple parties (Iranians, the U.S., Israel) can still disrupt events before that date. Speaker 4 says the first thing to check is whether the parties meet; if they meet, the MOU remains viable. He lists unresolved issues including failure of the United States to fulfill Article 1, efforts to control Iran’s duties under Article 5, Iran not relenting, and the issue of unfreezing assets. Speaker 1 adds that total relief of all sanctions is also still on the table, and raises the ongoing Lebanon issue. On maritime activity near the Strait of Hormuz, Speaker 1 cites a UKMTO statement claiming the southern route is open again for all traffic, with a corridor expanded for day or night travel if ships keep AIS on, radar on, and lights on. The threat level is described as substantial due to mine danger areas and concern about naval forces hailing ships over VHF. Speaker 4 says he is monitoring ship tracking and describes container ships and other cargo vessels returning, with most traffic going through Iranian channels and only one or two via Omani channels. The conversation then turns to a Netanyahu–Trump meeting during the NATO summit context. Speaker 1 relays an Axios report quoting a senior Trump official: Netanyahu made promises about the Iran war that didn’t come to pass, showing trust is broken, and the report’s leak is framed as significant. Speaker 4 references criticism of Netanyahu coming through reports attributed to Barak Ravid. Both discuss that any public warmth may mask deeper concerns, and they emphasize that what matters is what happens afterward. Speaker 1 worries about U.S. decisions that could greenlight Israel in Lebanon and undermine negotiations with Iran due to Israel’s violations of ceasefire and MOU language that Speaker 1 says is tied to Lebanon. Speaker 1 describes conversations with people from Lebanon (Laith Malouf of Free Palestine TV, and Sharmeen Narwani of The Cradle) and explains his focus on what the Lebanese government is thinking. He argues the Lebanese government’s actions contradict the MOU Iran made with the U.S. regarding Lebanon and references leaked clauses that he says require the Lebanese army to disarm Hezbollah across all Lebanon, which he says could trigger civil war. Speaker 4 replies that the deal represented only a portion of Lebanon’s population, with the rest split among Sunni and Shia Muslims and the Druze. Speaker 1 also relays an Axios item saying Netanyahu urged Trump to reign in Erdogan over increasingly anti-Israel rhetoric, and asked Trump to avoid approving weapon sales that would help Turkey modernize its air force. Discussion includes claims of mutual hostile rhetoric and disagreements between Israel and Turkey, as well as debate over whether economic escalation like oil pressure should occur. A clip of Trump’s comments is discussed, describing threats to attack Iran’s infrastructure and promises about enriched uranium. Speaker 1 then reads Iran’s response, attributed to Muhammad Bagheri, criticizing the threats and urging respect, with a statement that the Iranian people are “strangers to the language of threats” and warning of response “in another language.” Speaker 4 says the language was prohibited in the MOU and frames it as a violation, while Speaker 1 counters that violations may not be expected to be perfect in an MOU context. The transcript then focuses heavily on the scale of Ali Khamenei’s funeral as reported by Al Jazeera and other estimates: Speaker 1 cites projections of 14 to 20 million across Iraq and Iran over the entire period, and gives specific city estimates: Iran 15 million, Qom 2 to 4 million, Iraq 3 to 5 million, and Mashhad 7 to 10 million, with combined attendance projected around 30 to 40 million. Speaker 4 responds that the size indicates Sayyed Ali Mohammed’s unpopularity. Speaker 1 describes a viral post and a quote broadcast on Iranian national television from a person who says they were previously against the government, engaged in protests, and now begs forgiveness, portraying a shift in sentiment after the war. Speaker 4 compares the funeral’s impact to the U.S. unity shift after December 7, 1941, and says it will affect Iranian culture for the next 50 years. Speaker 1 agrees, adding that even critics may mourn and respect due to the defense of the country and the war’s narrative. Israel/Iran-related moral and protest comparisons appear next, including discussion of alleged violence by Israeli police and prisons versus claims about Iranian guards. The conversation then reports a new maritime incident: Speaker 1 says an unknown projectile hit a Qatari-owned LNG tanker, Al-Raqayat, on the port side near the Omani side of the Strait of Hormuz, causing fire with no casualties or environmental impact reported. Authorities advise vessels transit with caution, report suspicious activity to UKMTO, and Speaker 1 frames the incident as showing escalation risk despite ongoing negotiations. On Ukraine, Speaker 1 relays comments attributed to Russian spokesperson Peskov calling it “a war,” and Zelensky’s statements about nuclear weapons as a form of security and vulnerability if lacking them. Speaker 1 connects this to reports that Ukraine may consider obtaining a nuclear capability and mentions a large Russian attack allegedly with drones intercepted but few or no missiles intercepted. Trump’s remarks are also discussed, including a claim that a 90-minute call with Putin and efforts by Trump could bring talks to an end, and that NATO summit discussions may help. Speaker 4 responds by shifting to arguments about escalation and retaliation patterns, then provides a long historical breakdown of Russia’s shifts in tactics and force posture: from early invasion framed as special military operation, to mobilizations, shifting operational focus (e.g., Bakhmut, Avdiivka, Pokrovsk), the Kursk invasion, and later expansion across multiple regions. Speaker 4 claims Kyiv has been struck repeatedly and discusses air defense failures, and he asserts Russia has reserves while Ukraine does not. The transcript then returns to military, economic, and political pressures. Zelensky’s Financial Times quote is read: once attacks reach “1,000 flying towards Moscow” Putin will “feel it personally,” and farther from Moscow means closer to ending the war. Speaker 4 counters with skepticism about Ukraine’s ability to match Russia’s scale of attacks, and discusses glide bombs and claimed casualty impacts. Speaker 1 asks about pressure from energy infrastructure strikes and oil market impacts, while Speaker 4 says Russia exports increase, premiums are obtained, and the broader oil-market impact is limited. Additional regional updates include Lebanon: the Lebanese president denies reports of meeting Netanyahu and says he would immediately leave if in the same room while Israeli attacks and violations continue. Speaker 1 also cites a Lebanese government preliminary report placing direct damage from the war between $3 billion and $4 billion, excluding indirect economic losses of $16 billion, and Speaker 4 responds by calling the deaths “priceless.” Yemen is described as a major development: Speaker 1 says Saudi imposed a blockade preventing Iranian airplanes from going to Yemen for the first time in 11 years, and Iran breached it with an Iranian Mahan air flight to Sana’a transporting injured people and a high-level delegation. The conversation frames this as strategically favorable for Iran, with proxy-war consequences and ongoing clashes linked to Houthi activity and Saudi-backed forces. Speaker 4 adds that Yemen heating up could affect Saudi exits through Bab el-Mandab and change logistics depending on where oil is being sold. On Gaza, Speaker 1 discusses claims that Hamas government bodies resigned or were dissolved and describes other circulating reports (from Emirati outlets) saying these were false and that Hamas instead renovated an emergency committee into an interim committee led by Abdul Hadi al-Aqra (as stated). Speaker 4 accepts this alternative framing as more credible, and Speaker 1 says Hamas aims to expand political control in Gaza and the West Bank. Speaker 1 adds news that an International Security Force presence (described as Trump’s “peace” border force) may bring 20,000 personnel mostly from Indonesia, Morocco, Kazakhstan, and Albania, while Gaza continues to be bombed. The episode ends with discussion of negotiation prospects: Speaker 1 argues Trump needs a political win after the Iran war and is more optimistic about Ukraine negotiations, while Speaker 4 says Europe may push confrontation with Russia and risks of escalation at sea. Both agree that the conflict’s end may happen while Trump is still president, but not on Trump’s terms, and they conclude after exchanging commentary on future tracking tools and other unrelated remarks.

Afshin Ratansi, host of *Going Underground* from the UAE, marks UN-recognized World Refugee Day amid reports that more than 1.2 million Lebanese have been displaced, 3.2 million Iranians have been displaced inside Iran, nearly 1 million Iraqis are displaced, and 5.5 million Syrians are displaced, in part due to attacks by the US and Israel. He references the killing of 168 schoolgirls in Iran by US Tomahawk missiles and says Donald Trump claims he has a deal after a war in West Asia, amid repeated attacks on Dubai. Ratansi also says Trump has criticized Israel’s attacks on Hezbollah and notes that Saudi Arabia called Israel’s actions a genocide, while Trump mocks Netanyahu as “someone who gets a little excited.” Ratansi then introduces Ehud Olmert, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking from Tel Aviv. Olmert says Netanyahu’s greatest failure in influencing Trump began earlier than 2026, when Netanyahu helped persuade Trump in 2018 to withdraw from the Obama-era nuclear agreement with Iran. Olmert claims that after the US withdrawal, Iran rapidly enriched uranium to 60%, bringing Iran “close to the possibility of building an atomic bomb,” creating “almost inevitable circumstances” for a military attack in February 2026. He says that after four months, the outcome returned the parties to where they started: an agreement between the US and Iran after Strait of Hormuz disruptions, which he describes as possibly weaker than the earlier Obama agreement. Olmert says the prior deal included a 300 billion dollar compensation fund for Iran’s losses and that the new agreement lacks elements relating to ballistic missiles and “the chain of regime” in Iran. He argues the attack did not clearly justify the cause of the war. Ratansi contests a “40,000” estimate Olmert cited about deaths in Iran. Olmert says he never counted victims in the streets of Iran, but maintains that many thousands were massacred and that the country looked unified against Iran. Ratansi challenges Olmert’s view of Iran as a dictatorship; Olmert denies Western-propaganda framing and says he spoke about Israeli policies in harsh terms while also pointing to the initial war trigger, saying a massacre was perpetrated by Hamas on 7 October 2023 in Israeli homes. On Jewish terrorism in the West Bank, Olmert says Jewish terrorism is perpetrated by thousands of Israeli settlers, supported by higher authorities, involving police cooperation and some army units, while the Israeli Secret Service fails to prevent attacks. He says he speaks explicitly against it and calls it “ethnic cleansing” and “crime against humanity,” coordinated, financed, and supported by higher authorities. Ratansi asks why Olmert criticizes Israel’s invasion of the West Bank given Lebanon events and past references to Qana and other civilian deaths. Olmert says he criticized Israel when it started a ground operation in south Lebanon in March of this year and argues it was not needed and would not help Israel’s security. He frames Hezbollah as a terrorist organization acting against Israel and says Israel attacks Hezbollah because Hezbollah is “terrorist, violent, murderous,” coordinated and equipped with Iranian backing. He rejects the idea of a “linkage” in the Lebanon memorandum and says he favors negotiations with the Lebanese government and joint disarmament of Hezbollah with the Lebanese army after a political agreement. Ratansi raises Trump comments about Al-Qaeda-linked figures dealing with Hezbollah rather than Israel; Olmert says he smiled at the remark and argues Syria’s track record in Lebanon is not something he can trust. He says he did not support Al-Qaeda or ISIS and argues that Israel should seek political contact with Syria’s president, hoping for restraint and possible security or peace arrangements. Ratansi asks about what Netanyahu should do next after Iran; Olmert calls for Netanyahu’s resignation as soon as possible, saying Netanyahu’s strategies failed from day one and contributed to Israel’s failure regarding Hamas and 7 October 2023. He says he hopes Netanyahu will not open a new front in Yemen. On Gaza, Olmert distinguishes war crimes from genocide, stating he admitted war crimes were committed but says there was no policy of genocide and no genocide perpetrated. He compares this to the 2008–2009 Karslid operation, saying children were not being aimed at or purposely targeted and that the operation was “inevitable.” He recounts that he helped lead disengagement from Gaza by dismantling settlements and pulling out completely in 2004–2005. Ratansi asks whether Trump is in danger due to an Iran deal; Olmert says he is focused on defeating the Israeli government and urges that Americans decide the US president. He says the US-Iran agreement means Israel will not continue attacks on Iran, and he hopes Netanyahu will not rest easy and will be defeated in October elections. Olmert says with a new Israeli government after elections, rhetoric would change toward compassion, peace, negotiations, and a two-state solution, and that this could improve the world community’s attitude toward Israel.