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" Cancer? Cancer, you know, we're we're seeing certain cases here and there." "for those three cases, you know, there was success. You know, I know two of the patients." "it's not for everybody." "why is it again that some patients are improving with high dosages of mebendazole, ivermectin, etcetera, and some patients are not?" "we did fecal transplant using her grandson, and we extended her life. She improved her appetite." "She improved her hemoglobin, but it wasn't continuous." "we've shown that loss of bifidobacteria is a problem in invasive cancer." "I think there's gonna be in a future where we're gonna have, every cancer is gonna have a microbe attached to it." "Think about HPV cervical cancer, H. Pylori, gastric cancer, Burkitt's lymphoma, Epstein Barr virus." "there's gonna be a link to a cancer and a microbe that's lacking that needs to be repopulated." "in other words, is it over is the tumor growing because of a microbe that's in there that’s allowing it to grow?" "suppression of that microbe would be first to to kill off the tumor." "the methods that we have right now at killing the tumor is we kill off everything. Kind of like what we do with hydroxychloroquine." "We kill off the virus, but then we kill the whole microbiome." "that's not necessarily a solution because the problem is, well, you've killed the virus this time, but then what happens now you've killed your microbiome and your bifidobacteria, and now you're gonna get another virus and another virus." "Knowing what I know today, which is once you kill your microbiome, it takes years to recover."

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Speaker 0 asks: first, what impacts the loss of bifidobacterium? and second, what can we do to replenish it and keep it strong and populated? Speaker 1 responds that the microbiome is still in its infancy, and urges not to assume you can test your stools in the market because the FDA doesn’t have a test approved for testing stool. Regarding buying Bifidobacterium, he says that the problem with replenishing is you may suppress your own ability to make Bifidobacteria, and what Bifidobacteria needs is good nutrition, good vitamins, and good yogurt. He cites the case of a woman who lived to 117 years old in India, noting that remnants of bifidobacteria were found in her stools, and that she ate yogurt three times a day. When asked how much she ate, he replies that there aren’t studies on that, but yogurt is happening. Speaker 1 continues: in a world where we constantly dodge viruses, parasites, and bacteria that secrete toxins, survival involves doing one’s best. There are things that kill the microbiome, notably antibiotics. Therefore, when you take antibiotics, that’s the time to supplement with a good probiotic and good vitamins. He notes a problem: 16 out of 17 probiotics on the market do not have Bifidobacteria. He explains why he began focusing on Bifidobacteria: in the trillion-dollar probiotic industry, if you turn a bottle around and read the ingredients, the bacteria listed are Bifidobacteria. That observation during the pandemic sparked his interest in Bifidobacteria. He says the whole path is to save the Biff, referencing the idea that during stressful moments—political division, hate, anger—seeing the power of a microbe becomes important.

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We need studies where people test their stools to see if long-term vitamin C improves bifidobacteria. To advance microbiome research, protocols need to be done properly. A clinician cannot recommend different vitamin C products from different stores because of variations in supervision. Selling a specific product ensures consistency, avoiding comparisons between different vitamins. Advancing this research is challenging because natural substances like vitamin C, vitamin D, and naturally occurring microbes cannot be patented. Patenting requires fabricating or modifying something to be new and novel. The speaker realized that forces are trying to stop innovations, despite a clinician's role to help patients with informed consent.

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Speaker 0 describes being on the front line in Miami and using vitamin C as a go-to, questioning whether it is taken orally and in what amount. Speaker 1 confirms oral administration and notes taking a lot of vitamin C due to exposure and concern. Speaker 0 explains that a scientist contacted them after testing their sample, asking if they noticed their Bifidobacteria levels had risen fourfold. The speaker reveals they had been taking high dosages of vitamin C, which prompted a shift in approach. While dealing with treating COVID-19 patients and assessing stools in high-risk and severe cases, they decided to consult naturopaths and collect stool samples before and after treatment to evaluate the impact. Speaker 1 recounts that they began making phone calls, offering to pay for stool samples before and after on patients treated with vitamin C. They collected about twenty to twenty-five samples and observed that vitamin C increased Bifidobacteria. This finding led to publishing research showing that vitamin C increases Bifidobacteria in vitro, and they extended this to show an increase in patients as well. Key points: - Vitamin C was used as a primary approach by a frontline clinician in Miami, with emphasis on oral administration. - A scientist noted a fourfold increase in Bifidobacteria, prompting a change in strategy toward investigating vitamin C’s effects. - They initiated a program to collect stool samples before and after vitamin C treatment in COVID-19 patients, collaborating with naturopathic practitioners and funding the stool analyses themselves. - About 20–25 samples were analyzed, revealing that vitamin C increased Bifidobacteria. - They published a paper demonstrating the increase of Bifidobacteria with vitamin C both in vitro and in patient samples.

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While treating COVID patients with hydroxychloroquine, the speaker discovered ivermectin's effect on oxygen saturation. This led to the realization that ivermectin is in the same phylum as bifidobacteria, which were found to be lacking in severe COVID cases. Antibiotics are essentially microbes, illustrated by the discovery of penicillin from apple mold killing bacilli. Similarly, vaccines are microbes or pieces of microbes. The speaker notes that drugs are made somehow. Ivermectin is the fermented product of a soil bacteria. The speaker poses the question of whether ivermectin's secretion feeds bifidobacteria, potentially boosting immunity, while emphasizing that this is still under research.

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Speaker explains the intent to guide toward nutrients that increase bifidobacteria: "vitamin C increases bifidobacteria, vitamin D increases bifidobacteria, bovine immunoglobulins, ... increases bifidobacteria." Probiotics based on bifidobacteria were shown in newborns and "decrease with old in old people." He warns, "majority of probiotics out there say they have bifidobacteria but don't even have bifidobacteria," and that even when present, "it's not making it all the way to the large intestine" because "it gets broken down by the stomach acids" or "small bowel, which now causes SIBO." If a patient has some bifidobacteria, he uses vitamins to increase it; if not, "I will give a probiotic," but "the probiotic you have to make sure the probiotic is quality. You have to make sure it goes to the colon." Overuse can cause gas, bloating, and SIBO. Baseline testing is essential: "You have to test it ... know where you are at baseline," not using unvalidated labs. They rely on a validated assay and fecal transplant data; if a patient had "4% Bifidobacteria" and the probiotic raises it to "5%", but if it drops to "zero," "we have a problem," akin to antibiotics.

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remember, I was the girl that basically was doing clinical trials for pharma, and I was doing fecal transplant. The first thing that came to me during COVID was I bet you it's in the stools. COVID can persist in the stools. Some people were asymptomatic and had COVID in their stools, but yet never had symptoms. What was the difference between those people? The difference was their bifidobacteria. Forty three severe patients with COVID had zero Bifidobacteria. Bifidobacteria was really the beginning for me. It was like, I wonder if that's the microbe I need to focus to neutralize COVID, to suppress COVID. If I have a lot of good bifidobacteria, maybe I'll be fine during COVID. Anecdotal studies like of kimchi and sauerkraut because obviously you can talk to people that ate sauerkraut and still got COVID.

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Speaker discusses anecdotal findings on bifidobacteria from vitamin C and ivermectin, and the publish‑or‑perish obstacle in research. "I took a lot of vitamin c at the beginning of the pandemic. Grams a day." "I do not recommend it to anybody." He did it as a guinea pig, and notes that vitamin C "increases bifidobacteria." He then tested about 20 patients to see what happened. "Ivermectin increases bifidobacteria," but publication was blocked by research interference, making long-term effects unclear—"could there be kidney problems? Could there be liver problems?" He laments that you cannot advance research if you don't publish, because publication validates work. When he published "the lost microbes of COVID," labs, Japan, China, and Italy, reproduced the data, confirming replication. "If that paper is real, it gets reproduced into three, four, five papers." He emphasizes colonization as the essence of the work and notes cross‑population questions about who it helps.

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The speaker observed that patients with severe COVID were missing bifidobacteria compared to those highly exposed but uninfected. Bifidobacteria is a key microbe for immunity and is present in newborns but absent in older people. The speaker's research indicated vitamin C increases bifidobacteria, which may explain its use for treating colds. Ivermectin also increased bifidobacteria within 24 hours, possibly because it's a fermented product of a similar bacteria. The speaker hypothesized that ivermectin's observed benefits in COVID patients might be due to increased bifidobacteria. This hypothesis was the most read during the pandemic but was later retracted. The speaker believes the retraction of a hypothesis is not in the spirit of science.

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The speaker, a gastroenterologist, discusses their research on the microbiome and COVID-19. They found that the virus lingers in stools, hydroxychloroquine kills the virus but harms the microbiome, and bifidobacteria is crucial for immunity. Their studies on vitamin C, ivermectin, and mRNA vaccines' effects on bifidobacteria faced challenges in publication due to going against the mainstream narrative. They highlight the importance of unbiased research and collaboration in finding solutions. The speaker also raises concerns about pharmaceutical companies prioritizing profits over patient safety during the pandemic.

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The speaker describes microbiome work on COVID-19 and post-mRNA vaccination, noting profound microbiome effects. “I was the girl that basically was doing clinical trials for pharma, and I was doing fecal transplant.” During COVID, “I bet you it's in the stools.” They found “COVID in the stools in a hundred percent of patients that were positive nasal swab” and that “COVID can persist in the stools.” Some asymptomatic individuals had COVID in stools; “the difference was their bifidobacteria.” Early anecdotal signals about kimchi and sauerkraut are discussed: “What's different between that population? Why is one person eating sauerkraut and kimchi is fine and another person not?” They observed that “forty three severe patients with COVID had zero Bifidobacteria.” They say they will “focus on Bifidobacteria, not the others, because there are some people that have zero bifidobacteria and never got COVID... create a resilience.” Finally, “So bifidobacteria was really the beginning for me. It was like, I wonder if that's the microbe I need to focus to neutralize COVID, to suppress COVID. If I have a lot of good bifidobacteria, maybe I'll be fine during COVID.”

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"When fecal transplant showed more than, you know, improving C." "And one of my patients with Alzheimer's started remembering his daughter's date of birth, I said, what did I do? I just changed the microbiome." "I used the wife's microbiome to the husband." "It wasn't about pushing stools for Alzheimer's, but what was causing Alzheimer's? What microbes was the culprit?" "What microbes could suppress that microbe That's the culprit." "Babies have a lot of bifidobacteria, this important microbe that helps us decompose sugar." "And we saw a lot of Bifidobacteria in newborns." "There is obviously a consensus in the medical field because there's a lot of gynecologists now that are using the secretions from the vagina of the mom and smearing it on the baby that is born with C section to just make them healthier in a way."

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"The public is tired. They're tired of the old science. They're tired you know, antibiotics were great." "I trained in the world of antibiotics where we were giving antibiotics for everything." "then came the biologics, and then it became biologics for everything." "And now we're in the pill poop level, and it's gonna be pill poop for everything, you know." "So science is only good as science is during the moment in time where the research is not advanced." "What me and doctor Barodi do is we're the innovators." "We're the ones that are basically on the frontline challenging the status quo and saying, why not look for this?" "Why isn't Crohn's mycobacterial paratuberculosis? And why shouldn't I look for it?"

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"everybody is different." "We all have a fingerprint of our microbiome." "families are different." "the mom with triplets had an overgrowth of a certain group of microbes and the triplets, two of the triplets didn't have that microbe, but the one with autism had twice the amount of microbes that the mom had." "Engraftment determines success of a fecal transplant." "The kid started speaking, verbalizing." "We discovered that those people that had severe COVID had zero Bifidobacteria." "autistic kids have loss of bifidobacteria." "two identical twins, same exact microbes disappeared after nine months, and the Bifidobacteria goes up." "these kids are verbalizing, they're reading, they're counting." "Restoring the microbiome, saving the Bif, improving the bifidobacteria, and the kids are verbalizing." "this is a new revelation." "And I think it's going to be one of the biggest discoveries of this century in my opinion."

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I discovered that patients with severe COVID lacked a key bacteria, bifidobacteria, which is crucial for immunity. Newborns have this bacteria, while the elderly do not due to aging. Vitamin C and Ivermectin were found to increase bifidobacteria levels. I published a hypothesis linking Ivermectin to bifidobacteria increase, which gained attention but was retracted. Hypotheses are essential in science.

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Speaker 0: I had been on the front line in Miami, and my go-to is always vitamin C. Speaker 1: Do you take it orally or is that— Speaker 0: just Orly. Orly. Speaker 1: Orly. Is there a certain amount that you can take orally? Speaker 0: Well, I was taking a lot because I was exposed and I was worried. But then what I realized was I tested my sample, my scientist calls me and he goes, Did you notice your C? Did you notice your Bifidobacteria went up four times the level? What have you been doing? I go, Oh, I’ve been taking high dosages of vitamin C. And then he said to me, Well, you got to look into vitamin C. So right away, I switched my gears. As I’m dealing with treating COVID patients, as I’m dealing at looking at the stools before in high risk and severe, I switched my gears and I said, Okay, we need to call a bunch of naturopaths and send us patients before and after. So I started making phone calls again and said, I’ll pay for stool samples before and after on patients with vitamin C. And then we had like twenty, twenty five samples, and we noticed that the vitamin C increased Bifidobacteria. We published on that because actually vitamin C increases Bifidobacteria in vitro. So we published the paper to show that it increased in patients.

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"Vitamin C improves gut Bifidobacteria in humans." "This was an incidental finding of my berythrombacteria increasing with vitamin C." "the only thing I've done different is I've been taking these enormous amounts of vitamin c." "Essentially, what we noticed was an increase in the bifidobacteria." "within twenty four hours of the infusion of the pills." "We created the Microbiome Research Foundation essentially to raise the funds to continue doing the research." "So when the vitamin C came on, it was really calling my colleagues and saying, have a protocol that is looking at the microbiome." "Our job was not to treat the kids." "We gave an informed consent." "we didn't need an IRB approved giving vitamin c to these kids." "We got these kids poop." "Our job was to look at what is vitamin c doing before and after." "before and after for nutraceuticals, pre and post vaccination, pre and post drugs, pre and post foods." "We tested 20 kids."

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Out of a thousand samples analyzed in the last year, less than 5% had bifidobacteria, and one out of a thousand stool samples had lactobacillus. Both are believed to be very important microbes. The speaker poses the question of what happens when Bifidobacteria and lactobacillus disappear. They claim you can't absorb sugar or calcium, and asks what happens to the Krebs cycle and humanity. They suggest the loss of bifida bacteria may be linked to chronic disease.

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The speaker discusses personal experiences with their microbiome and the role of vitamin C in recovering gut bacteria after a disruption. They note that when they killed their microbiome, they had zero, and then saw a reappearance of bacteria with vitamin C. They raise questions about whether remnants or precursor forms of bifidobacteria were missed by testing, and whether there are unknown factors from the microbiome that weren’t captured. They describe this as a future area of study: determining how much vitamin C to administer, for how long, and whether to use it short-term or long-term. The speaker shares their own recovery process after wiping out their microbiome, mentioning that it took a long time and involved tracking bifidobacteria until it stabilized. Once stability was achieved, they felt back to normal and stopped using supplements, returning to their pre-pandemic routine. They describe this as “refloralization,” a term they coined to describe bringing back the flora and microbes to resemble what they were before, acknowledging that no one has their exact pre-pandemic microbiome signature. They express hope that future efforts—ideally in collaboration with a government agency—will make stool assays available to the public so long-haulers can understand their gut health, including the status of bifidobacteria and how dietary factors might affect it. The speaker emphasizes that addressing long-hauler symptoms requires attention to bifidobacteria in the gut and understanding which foods promote or diminish it, including which meats are beneficial or not. They acknowledge that giving practical hints is complex because many factors influence bifidobacteria. They illustrate this with an analogy: a personal conflict the night before could reduce bifidobacteria, underscoring how daily events can impact gut health. The speaker also notes personal changes in temperament, describing themselves as previously a fireball who would engage in conflicts, but who has become calmer as stress responses shift, particularly in light of stressful news or retracted papers. They conclude with a sense of resilience, joking about not being overly affected by setbacks and maintaining confidence in their ongoing adaptation.

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Dysbiosis can be caused by antibiotics, alcohol, and certain products, including nutraceuticals. Preservatives and capsule materials can kill the microbiome. The lab showed vitamin C improves bifidobacteria, but certain capsules can negate this benefit if they kill bifidobacteria. Contaminants can also harm the microbiome. More human studies are needed to understand the effects of natural products like manuka honey, apple cider vinegar, and cumin on the microbiome, as animal studies don't always translate to humans. It's important to know what kills and what heals the microbiome, especially when trying to regrow microbes in patients, to avoid counteracting the treatment.

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During the pandemic, the speaker took 1,000-3,000mg of Vitamin C but currently takes none due to a balanced microbiome. Testing confirms good bifidobacteria levels, especially during summer with outdoor microbe exposure. Vitamin D from the sun also boosts bifidobacteria. Vitamin C intake may need to increase depending on location. As people age, skin produces less Vitamin D, making Vitamin D and K2 the most important vitamins for older individuals.

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- "Who knew bifidobacteria liked vitamin c and liked vitamin d and that it grew?" - "We saw an in vitro study, but nobody's ever done a clinical study where you give people vitamin C until our lab where we basically took 20 patients and we gave them vitamin C before and after and noticed vitamin C increases bifidobacteria." - "Now it's like that light bulb, right?" - "That comes out that says, wait a minute, a patient has COVID, he has lots of bifidobacteria because he has COVID or a virus, right? Any virus." - "And is this why vitamin C is helping with viruses?" - "Because it increases the bifidobacteria that those people are lacking to begin with, right?" - "So are these microbes depleted in nutrients and what nutrient feeds each microbe?" - "This is the future. So it's gonna change nutrition a lot."

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Speaker 0: Bifidobacteria was absent in kids with autism, that Bifidobacteria was absent in Alzheimer's. Bifidobacteria was absent in long haulers, vaccine injured, Lyme patients, Crohn's patients, invasive cancer. When you look at who has Bifidobacteria, the newborns have a lot of Bifidobacteria, old people have zero Bifidobacteria. Nursing home dying, zero Bifidobacteria. The process of aging is really this loss of Bifidobacteria. Expanded: if you look at and you believe the Bible, you know, people lived a lot longer. In biblical times than we are right now. We're barely making it to seventy, eighty and not really healthy seventy, eighty. You know, the mind starts going. So, is the mind starting to go because of the loss of Bifidobacteria? And, when you start looking at, well, what improves Bifidobacteria, right? So, our lab discovered vitamin C improves Bifidobacteria. Okay. Our lab discovered bovine immunoglobulins, the blood of the cow spun around that clear stuff, provided that the cow is not on a lot of antibiotics, is not given a lot of hormones, is not given like thousands of vaccines. So when you start looking at all that, you start seeing the importance of Bifidobacteria and you start seeing, like even me, you know, with Progena Biome, looking at the stool samples before the pandemic, during the pandemic and after the pandemic, there is a lot of disappearance of Bifidobacteria. Is that why we're having an increase in Alzheimer's, increase in cancer? Have we demolished this bifidobacteria? So, to me, that's a very important microbe that I believe is our longevity, if we can retain it. And it's not easy to retain in a world that's toxic in a way and in a world where we are, you know, put you know, given media full of stress, where we are divided, where we are, you know, constantly nervous of the next pandemic or the next virus, you know, it's it's almost like this bottle that you're shaking and it's full of gas and you just need to put it on the counter and let it just calm down, right? So, I think that's, it's a very important microbe.

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But I think there's you know, what's beautiful now because so many doctors are stepping up and seeing something and talking about something, I'm not saying that's the right thing. 'Is ivermectin improving cancer? Certainly some doctors have seen it.' 'So is that the way we is it improving for everybody? What is it in ivermectin that improves the microbiome of certain people and not in others? What is it in ivermectin that helps certain cancers and not others? Right? So we really need to be better to say, okay, look, I'm courageous enough to add ivermectin to my protocol of the chemo or the bio or the immunotherapy that I'm giving or maybe I don't.' 'And maybe at least I look at the microbiome. I look at the microbiome on what is believed right now, you know, a a good look at it.'

The Peter Attia Drive Podcast

283 ‒ Gut health & the microbiome: improving and maintaining the microbiome, probiotics, & more

Guests: Colleen Cutcliffe

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The microbiome is a mutable ecosystem of microbes, including bacteria, viruses, fungi, and yeasts, residing in and on the human body. Colleen Cutcliffe, with a background in biochemistry and molecular biology, discusses her journey from academia to founding Pendulum, a company focused on microbiome-based products. She emphasizes the potential of microbiome interventions, particularly through fecal microbiome transplants, to improve health outcomes. Cutcliffe explains that the gut microbiome is established at birth, primarily influenced by the mode of delivery and early exposure to maternal microbes. The diversity of the microbiome peaks in early adulthood and declines with age. While the idea that microbes outnumber human cells is debated, the functional importance of these microbes is clear, as they contribute significantly to bodily processes. The conversation shifts to the differences between prokaryotic bacterial cells and eukaryotic human cells, highlighting that bacteria can replicate independently and evolve rapidly, which is a factor in antibiotic resistance. The relationship between humans and their microbiota is generally symbiotic, although some bacteria can become pathogenic under certain conditions, such as *Clostridium difficile*, which can proliferate when antibiotics disrupt the balance of the microbiome. Cutcliffe discusses the Human Microbiome Project, which revealed significant variability in microbiomes across individuals, influenced by factors like genetics, diet, and environment. The complexity of the microbiome makes it challenging to draw definitive conclusions about specific strains and their functions. The conversation also touches on the role of different microbes, including the potential benefits of *Akkermansia muciniphila*, which is associated with metabolic health and glucose regulation. Cutcliffe describes how *Akkermansia* can stimulate GLP-1 secretion, a hormone that helps regulate blood sugar levels and appetite. Pendulum's product, Glucose Control, was developed based on clinical trials showing its efficacy in lowering A1C and blood glucose spikes in individuals with type 2 diabetes. The formulation includes multiple strains to enhance metabolic function. Cutcliffe notes the importance of rigorous scientific validation in the supplement industry, which is often plagued by unsubstantiated claims. The discussion highlights the challenges of studying the microbiome, including the need for longitudinal data and the difficulty of controlling for dietary factors. Cutcliffe emphasizes the importance of understanding individual microbiome responses to interventions, as well as the potential for future research to uncover more about the gut-brain connection and the impact of diet on microbiome health. Overall, the conversation underscores the evolving understanding of the microbiome's role in health and disease, the potential for targeted microbiome therapies, and the importance of scientific rigor in developing effective products.