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The speaker watched the debate between Dave Smith and Douglas Murray on Rogan. The speaker says they are an American chauvinist who only cares about their own country and wishes other countries well. They believe countries should defend themselves and if a nation can't survive without being propped up by another government, like the U.S., then it shouldn't exist. Speaker 0 asserts Israel cannot exist without U.S. support, citing its nuclear program, weapons, and economy. They claim Israel's lobbying efforts in the U.S. prove this dependence. Speaker 1 believes Israel can handle itself. They reiterate that any country that fundamentally cannot exist without being subsidized by American taxpayers should not exist, and in fact, already does not exist.

The speakers discuss the idea of using nuclear weapons. Speaker 2 believes it would solve problems, but Speaker 0 points out the negative consequences of radiation. Speaker 2 suggests that those who support nuking should go live with them. Speaker 1 emphasizes the desire for peace. Speaker 2 acknowledges a difference between the leadership of Hamas and innocent civilians. Speaker 0 mentions resources in the video description. Speaker 2 warns that using nuclear weapons would make the world hate Israel. Speaker 0 questions the need to deal with them when Israel is already stronger.

First Speaker argues that Microsoft provided services and access to data, including Palestinian data, which allowed Israel to set up systems to mass target and mass kill Palestinians. They mention an application called "Where is Daddy?" that allows the army to randomly track people and reach them when they are with their families in order to inflict the most harm, describing it as brutal. They state agreement with this view and emphasize the importance of understanding that this represents the end of humanity and the civilization people have pretended to belong to. They claim Israel has the most sophisticated military in the region and has known exactly what it is doing for two years. They assert that many soldiers are breaking down and suicide rates are increasing among young Israelis who have served in the army, noting they are older than teenagers and have been turned by indoctrination into willing executioners of a genocide. They call for intervention by people who love Israel to save what remains of Israel. First Speaker contends that the biggest harm is being done by those outside of Israel who defend the regime. They describe the regime as having imposed a military dictatorship for decades on Palestinians in the West Bank and Jerusalem, and until 2005 in Gaza, and claim this regime also extends to some Israelis who are part of the system. They argue that brutality toward others undermines one's own humanity. Second Speaker agrees and seeks clarification, asking if there is an app, possibly by an American company, called "Where's Daddy" that allows the Israeli government to murder men in front of their children. They reference the prior statements and want confirmation of that claim. First Speaker responds that Israel has developed not just a system but an automatized system to decide targets through a computing system, and that data has been provided by technology. They reiterate that this is part of a broader system of targeting.

Speaker 0: So what do you think about the use of artificial intelligence or Lavender by the IDF in identifying Hamas targets? And secondly, do you agree with Elon Musk about that the population decline is a risk for humanity? Speaker 1: Look, I again, I'm not I'm not, you know, with without without going into all the you know, I I'm I'm not on top of all the details of what's going on in Israel because my my bias is to defer to Israel. It's it's not for us to to second guess every everything. And I I believe that broadly the IDF gets to decide what it wants to do and that they're broadly in the right. And that's that's sort of the the perspective I come back to and

The speaker states that the army acts in a more moral fashion than the world. When asked how many Palestinians he has killed, he replies he doesn't count. He finds the removal of Gaza and the topic in general to be funny. He believes most people are racist. He states that only America can help Israel, needing their support, protection in the UN Security Council, and assistance in the Hague. He thanks President Biden and the people in Congress for their support. He believes when Israel wins, the entire civilized world wins. He mentions people are looking for a baby.

Natalie asks about the AI piece, expressing cynicism that there may be a push for a “war bot” to circumvent consumer AI limits that block starting wars with WMDs, and wonders if there is a benevolent reason. Matthew responds that it’s worse than that: Hengseth described a platform to run on military desktops worldwide—secure, like ChatGPT or Claude but for the Pentagon and military services—that “doesn’t allow information to get out.” The core issue, he says, is who controls the AI, and two key questions about the future of war with AI: who ultimately owns these AI platforms, and who informs them—who gives them the algorithm and programming and essentially orders on how to answer questions. He notes increasing concerns about reliability of information, including how ChatGPT handles questions about trustworthy news sources. He mentions that ChatGPT defers to institutional structures rather than historical accuracy. The risk, he says, is that military AI programs may not provide honest, candid, objective information to military personnel, but rather information based on narratives the Pentagon or manufacturers want. A common belief is that technology makes war more precise and reduces civilian harm, but Matthew contends this is a myth. He explains that precision-guided munitions were not about preventing civilian casualties but about increasing efficiency—“the purpose was to make the weapons more efficient, so we had to drop less bombs to, say, blow up a bridge.” He cites the small diameter bomb as evidence that the aim is not to limit civilian casualties but to allow more bombs to be delivered from aircraft. He highlights real-world examples of AI in warfare, referencing Israeli systems in Gaza. He explains that three AI programs—Lavender, Gospel, and Where’s Daddy?—play roles in targeting and timing strikes. Lavender scans theInternet and databases to identify targets (e.g., labeling someone as a Hamas supporter based on a past online activity), and Where’s Daddy? coordinates that information to ensure bombs hit resistance fighters “when they are with their families,” not away from them. He notes reporting from Israeli media and Nine Two Magazine about these programs and urges viewers to examine that reporting; Tucker Carlson’s coverage is mentioned as example. Matthew argues this demonstrates the dystopian potential of AI in war and cautions against assuming American AI would be more benevolent. He mentions commentator references to justify or excuse actions, including a remark attributed to Mike Huckabee that “Israel did not attack Qatar. They just sent a missile into their country aimed at one person,” noting the nearby injuries or deaths. He ends with a reminder of Orwell’s reflections on war and the idea that those who cheer for war may be less enthusiastic if they experience its costs, suggesting a broader aim to make the costs of war felt among ruling elites who benefit from it.

Speaker 0 asks why President Trump unleashed Prime Minister Netanyahu to resume genocide in Gaza, resulting in the intentional killing of 400 civilians. Speaker 1 believes Trump has no choice, due to agreements with major donors beyond Miriam Adelson, obliging him to underwrite Netanyahu's actions. Speaker 1 notes Netanyahu arranged a meeting between the U.S. and Azerbaijan, not the State Department, indicating the Israel lobby's grip. Speaker 1 believes Trump is obliged to comply and won't diverge. Speaker 0 asks if Trump has no choice but to militarily back Israel if it attacks Iran. Speaker 1 thinks so, noting the possibility of Israel precipitating a war with Iran. The expectation is the U.S. will reinforce Israeli actions, with joint strike planning and intelligence sharing already in place. Speaker 1 believes it's a foregone conclusion, though the timing is uncertain.

Speaker 1 acknowledges that intelligence sharing between the U.S. and Israel is not total and that allies spy on each other, including domestically. Speaker 1, identifying as conservative, says this is expected because people act in their rational self-interest. Speaker 0 asks if it is in America's interest for Israel to spy on the U.S., including on the president. Speaker 1 responds that the close alliance with Israel provides huge benefits to the U.S. Speaker 0 presses on the issue of spying, asking why an American lawmaker wouldn't tell a client state that spying on the U.S. is not allowed. Speaker 0 expresses that it is weird not to say that, but Speaker 1 seems unable to.

Speaker 0 asserts that Bezalel Smotrich and Ben Gavir are “literally talking about exterminating the entire population of Gaza.” Speaker 1 counters that they are not talking about extermination. Speaker 0 insists the statements are brazen, up front, and what they actually want to do. Speaker 0 adds that Hamas is involved in a separate context. Speaker 0 says, “The West Bank had nothing to do with what happened on October 7, but they're annexing that land anyway. They're raining terror on innocent people, innocent Palestinians.” Speaker 0 concedes, “I am willing to admit, because it's the truth, that what Hamas did on October 7 was a fucking atrocity,” specifically mentioning killing innocent people. Speaker 1 challenges acknowledgement of atrocities against civilians in Gaza. Speaker 0 asks about a hospital being tapped; Speaker 1 responds that it’s an old terrorist trick and they do it “all the time.” Speaker 0 asks whether the IDF's action was wrong. Speaker 1 concedes, “I'm sure they have committed what we would call war crimes, as every army does in every war.” Speaker 0 notes, “Including our own.” Speaker 1 agrees, giving the Civil War example: Sherman burned Atlanta and Vad, arguing that despite brutality, the North were the good guys fighting slavery, and also noting Israel is fighting to survive and is the front line in the Western world. Speaker 0 disputes this, saying much of the problems in the Middle East come from an expansionist policy and that if Israel wasn’t trying to continue expanding, they would not be dealing with the enemies they’re dealing with. Speaker 1 disagrees that they ever were expanding, arguing they “were attacked” and that they “never been trying to expand.” Speaker 0 claims Israel is trying to annex the West Bank, southern Lebanon, and Syria, and argues they have succeeded in doing so. Speaker 1 says these are lands where they were attacked from when Israel became a country in 1947; he claims Israel said, “we will accept half a loaf,” and asserts they had as much right to that land as anybody, with a historical presence since a thousand BC when King David had a lineage. Speaker 0 dismisses this lineage-based argument as irrelevant to the present. Speaker 1 counters that it’s relevant, and asserts that the notion of wiping out innocent people merely because one’s ancestors lived there centuries ago is not acceptable. The conversation ends with Speaker 0 calling Palestinians colonizers, and Speaker 1 arguing they are not colonizers; they assert that Israel is annexing land, which, in their view, is described as colonization.

The speaker was asked about the IDF's use of AI, specifically Lavender, to identify Hamas targets. The speaker stated they are not on top of all the details of what's going on in Israel and their bias is to defer to Israel. They believe it's not for others to second guess everything and that broadly the IDF gets to decide what it wants to do and that they're broadly in the right. That is the perspective they come back to.

A speaker claimed few people get wealthy, and another speaker alleged Al Qaeda killed their family in Palestine using AI and technology. The first speaker stated the primary source of death in Palestine is that Hamas has realized there are millions of useful idiots. Another speaker accused them of using AI and technology to kill Palestinians, not just terrorists. The first speaker responded that if the speaker's argument was strong, they would allow them to talk. The second speaker thanked anyone else who supports using technology and AI to kill Palestinians.

Speaker 0 believes that if Israel faces annihilation, it may use its nuclear arsenal, which they never admit to having. Speaker 0 states that Iran and Hezbollah need to understand that they cannot wipe out the Israeli people. Speaker 0 denies encouraging the use of nuclear weapons but suggests that Israel needs to consider all options if faced with total destruction. Speaker 0 believes that the US military being stretched is not Israel's fault and that the US should fund its military better. Speaker 1 expresses concern about the potential involvement of the United States in the conflict and the possibility of a wider war, given the situation in Ukraine and China. Speaker 0 dismisses these concerns, stating that the focus should be on Israel's survival.

Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss a sequence of war-related scenarios, making provocative comparisons and extreme claims about Israel, Hamas, and broader conflicts. Speaker 0 asserts that if Mexico occupied their land and then decided to cut off electricity and control inputs, it would be akin to Israel’s actions against Palestinians; he imagines a scenario where an occupying force could slaughter people for allegedly throwing rocks. Speaker 1 counters by noting Israel has nuclear weapons and that the world’s military power backs Israel. Speaker 0 asserts that Israel has nuclear weapons and that they do not use them, while Speaker 1 suggests Hamas would use a nuclear weapon in seconds if they had one, stating three seconds as the answer because it’s in Hamas’s charter. Speaker 0 asks how anyone could know that, and Speaker 1 cites the charter as justification. Speaker 0 argues that Hamas would be martyrs if they used a nuclear weapon against Israel, describing Hamas as having a death-cult view and noting that they strap suicide vests sometimes on children. He says people cannot see the moral difference between Hamas and Israel. Speaker 1 pushes back, saying they are not talking about extermination and notes that Basilel Smotrich and Ben Gavir have talked about exterminating the entire population of Gaza, while Speaker 0 claims the West Bank is another example and states that despite the West Bank having nothing to do with October 7, it is being annexed and that terror is being rained on innocent Palestinians, driving them from their homes. Speaker 0 acknowledges that what Hamas did on October 7 was a “fucking atrocity,” killing innocent people. He says he is willing to admit that atrocity, but he emphasizes his belief that the atrocities against civilians in Gaza are also significant. Speaker 1 concedes that the IDF and all armies commit war crimes in war and that “all wars are going to have atrocity.” Speaker 0 asks for acknowledgment of a double tap on a hospital; Speaker 1 describes the hospital incident as an old terrorist trick and confirms that such acts occur in war, but he emphasizes that all wars involve atrocities. The exchange references first responders and a vague memory of the event, with Speaker 0 asserting that first responders’ deaths and hospital strikes are part of the ongoing discussion, while Speaker 1 frames them within the broader context of war crimes by all sides. Overall, the dialogue juxtaposes occupation, nuclear deterrence, and moral atrocity claims on both sides, with explicit references to statements by Israeli political figures, Hamas, and the general conduct of war by all parties.

Speaker 1 and Speaker 0 discuss the implications of AI in military use. They consider whether consumer AI is being bypassed with a secure, military-specific platform that would be sealed—essentially one-way in and no information out—for the Pentagon and military services. The key questions raised are: who controls the AI, who informs its algorithms, and who gives it its orders on how to answer questions, highlighting concerns about privatization and outsourcing of war. Speaker 1 argues that the future of war with AI hinges on two issues: ownership of AI platforms and the sources of their programming. They note that AI can deflect or defer to institutional structures rather than empirical accuracy, raising concerns about the reliability of information provided to military personnel. They also reference the myth that advancing technology automatically reduces civilian harm, citing that precision-guided munitions were designed for efficiency, not necessarily to prevent civilian casualties, noting that the intent was to reduce the number of bombs needed to achieve targets. The conversation shifts to the concept of precision in weapons. Speaker 1 points out that laser- and GPS-guided bombs were not primarily invented to minimize civilian casualties but to increase efficiency. They mention the small diameter bomb as an example, explaining that its use increases the number of bombs that can be deployed rather than primarily limiting collateral damage. The discussion then moves to real-world AI systems used in conflict zones. Speaker 1 cites Israeli programs—Lavender, Gospel, and Where’s Daddy?—as examples of nefarious and insidious AI in war. Lavender supposedly scans the Internet and other databases to identify targets, for example flagging someone as a Hamas supporter based on years of activity. Where’s Daddy? allegedly guides Israeli drones to strike fighters when they are with their families, not away from them. This reporting is linked to coverage from Israeli media and Nine Seven Two magazine, and Speaker 2 references Tucker Carlson’s coverage of these issues. Speaker 2 amplifies the point by noting the emotional impact of such capabilities, arguing that targeting men when they are with their children is particularly disturbing. They also discuss broader political reactions, including a remark attributed to Ambassador Huckabee about Israel not attacking Qatar but “sending a missile there” that injured nearby people. Speaker 1 concludes by invoking Orwell’s reflection on the Spanish Civil War, suggesting that those who cheer for war may be confronted by the consequences when modern aircraft enable distant bombing. They emphasize the need to make the costs of war felt by the ruling classes who benefit from it, not just the people on the ground.

Speaker 0 expresses support for Israel and the right of Israel to defend itself, but says they have to do this because they simply have no option if they are to survive as a country, and frankly, in many ways, as a race in that part of the world. Speaker 1 asks whether immigration represents a major threat to Britain from a demographic perspective, noting that in the last twenty years the white British population has declined from 87% to 74%, and asks if that is a concern. Speaker 0回答: No. No. Speaker 1 reiterates the claim of rapid demographic change, stating that the fastest and most rapid decline of the white British population ever experienced in British history has occurred in a tiny short period of time, and that majority cities that were once 90% white British are now majority ethnic minorities, citing London, Leicester, and Birmingham, and asks why this isn’t a concern of Speaker 0. Speaker 0 responds: But they're not unrecognizable as being English because of skin color. They're unrecognizable because of culture. He adds that he genuinely thinks the British are the most open minded, most accepting people.

Speaker 0 describes a 2021 claim by the commander of Israeli intelligence to design a machine to resolve a human bottleneck in locating and approving targets in war. A recent investigation by Plus 972 Magazine and Local Call reveals that the Israeli army developed an AI-based Lavender system to designate targets and direct airstrikes. During the initial weeks of the Lavender operation, the system designated about 37,000 Palestinians as targets and directed airstrikes on their homes. The system reportedly had an error rate of about 10%, and there was no requirement to verify the machine’s data. The Israeli army systematically attacked targeted individuals at night in their homes while their whole family was present. An automated component, known as “where’s daddy,” tracked targeted individuals and carried out bombings when they entered their family residences. The result, according to the report, was that thousands of women and children were killed by Israeli airstrikes. Israeli intelligence officers allegedly stated that the IDF bombed homes as a first option, and in several cases entire families were murdered when the actual target was not inside. In one instance, four buildings were destroyed along with everyone inside because a single target was in one of them. For targets marked as low level by Lavender, cheaper bombs were used, destroying entire buildings and killing mostly civilians and entire families. It was alleged that the IDF did not want to waste expensive bombs on “unimportant people,” and it was decided that for every low-level Hamas operative Lavender marked, it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians; for a senior Hamas official, more than 100 civilians could be killed. Most AI targets were never tracked before the war. Lavender analyzed information collected on the 2,300,000 residents of the Gaza Strip through mass surveillance, assessing the likelihood of each person being a militant and giving a rating from 1 to 100. If the rating was high enough, the person and their entire family were killed. Lavender flagged individuals with patterns similar to Hamas, including police, civil defense, relatives, and residents with similar names or nicknames. The report notes that this kind of tracking system has existed in the US for years. Speaker 1 presents a counterpoint: a “fine gentleman of the secret service” claims to provide a list of every threat made about the president since February 3 and profiles of every threat maker, implying that targets could be identified through broad data collection including emails, chats, SMS. The passage suggests a tool akin to a Google search but including private communications. Speaker 0 adds that although some claim Israel controls the US, Joe Biden says Israel serves US interests. Speaker 2: A speaker asserts, “There’s no apology to be made. None. It is the best $3,000,000,000 investment we make,” and claims that without Israel the United States would have to invent an Israel to protect its regional interests. Speaker 0 closes reporting for Infowars, credited to Greg Reese.

The speaker addresses the use of artificial intelligence or Lavender by the IDF in identifying Hamas targets. They state they are not on top of all the details of what’s happening in Israel and that their bias is to defer to Israel. They say it’s not for us to second guess everything. They conclude that broadly the IDF gets to decide what it wants to do and that they’re broadly in the right.

Speaker 0 questions Speaker 1 about condemning the killing of civilians. Speaker 1 defends Israel's actions, claiming they have the right to defend themselves. Speaker 0 argues that terrorists also claim the same right. Speaker 1 disagrees, stating that Hamas and Bin Laden were not defending themselves. Speaker 0 questions how an occupier can defend itself in the first place. Speaker 1 tries to respond but is interrupted. Speaker 0 continues to argue that an occupier cannot claim self-defense. Speaker 1 acknowledges Israel's mistakes but defends their actions against terror attacks. Speaker 0 questions if killing civilians is justified, and Speaker 1 argues that Hamas can be targeted if they hide among the public. Speaker 0 dismisses this argument as a fallacy and questions the necessity of bombing densely populated areas.

"The events of October 7 were so catastrophically horrendous, such an appalling act of terrorism. You know, twelve hundred people killed, two hundred and fifty plus kidnapped, seven thousand more wounded." "They had a moral duty to defend their people, and I still believe that." "The bombardment has been utterly relentless all over Gaza." "They've obliterated 70% of Gaza." "At least 60,000 people have been killed, including reportedly over 20,000 children." "Ethnic cleansing— to displace and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians." "This is horrific." "It is a both sides problem." "When artificial intelligence learns to self design, in other words, think for itself, that's the end because it will pretty rapidly work out human beings are pointless." "I thought it was outrageous." "America's taken a view. We are all in with Israel because Israel would be all in with us."

Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss the situation in Gaza. Speaker 0 argues that Israel is defending itself after a massacre, while Speaker 1 highlights the civilian casualties and calls for a temporary ceasefire. Speaker 0 questions why France considers the numbers provided by a terrorist organization reliable. Speaker 1 mentions alternative military strategies to minimize civilian casualties, but Speaker 0 dismisses the idea, stating that Israel knows how to conduct its military operations. The conversation becomes heated as Speaker 0 accuses Speaker 1 of treating Israel like a child and disregarding its military expertise. Speaker 1 clarifies that the information comes from American sources. The discussion ends with Speaker 0 questioning why Israel would give advice to the French military when they don't fund it.

- Shortly before the attack, the government allegedly ordered the removal of all military presence from the area, giving Hamas a “free pass” to enter and begin their operation. In the following videos, former Israeli Defense Force (IDF) members warn that something very concerning is happening in Israel. - Afat Fenningzon reports, dated 10/07/2023, that Israeli defense forces around Gaza were instead positioned around the West Bank due to security concerns, leaving the Gaza envelope unoccupied. He says about 60 to 80% of that area was left without IDF forces. He notes that a year earlier there was a Gaza operation to prepare for such events, and ongoing trainings for these scenarios exist. This raises questions about Israeli intelligence: two years ago there were successful deployments of underground barriers with sensors to alert on terrorist breaches, yet there was zero response to the border and fence breaching. He emphasizes that Israel has a highly advanced military and questions how there could be no indication of what was coming, given that a cat moving near a fence would trigger forces. He asks, “What happened to the strongest army in the world? How come border crossings were wide open?” He describes the chain of events as very unusual and not typical for the Israeli defense system. He calls the current government highly corrupt and asserts the previous one was no better, stating his goal is to expose evil forces. He characterizes the surprise attack as seemingly a planned operation on all fronts and, if he were a conspiracy theorist, would say it feels like the work of the deep state. He suggests the people of Israel and the people of Palestine have been sold to “higher powers,” acknowledging how difficult the reality is to fathom. - Speaker 2 questions how the strongest army and the most sophisticated intelligence in the world could allow a few hundred Hamas fighters to enter Israel and cause the attack, while Hamas fighters did not meet any Israeli resistance in the area. He asserts it is not logical and implies there is more behind it, suggesting Israel sacrificed its own people and civilians on the Gaza border, removed protection and the army, and allowed Hamas to carry out their actions. He reiterates that Israel has the most sophisticated intelligence and a strong army, yet such an incursion occurred, implying hidden mechanisms or plans at work.

Speaker 0 opens with "we wanna see the maniacs of Hamas be defeated" and notes "Israel, bombed Qatar, which houses a lot of Hamas officials," asking "What happened here? ... Will this potentially endanger America's own interest in The Middle East?" He contrasts Israel's aims with "unconditional surrender" and asks, "Is that what Israel is aiming for here?" He wonders what "success look[s] like" in Gaza after about twenty-three months and what could have been done differently "on the PR front" or "conduct front." A claim heard is "Israel is committing genocide." The discussion touches on media skepticism, accusations that Israel wants to "ethnically cleanse," and asks for a five-year outlook. The remark "you can't be MAGA if you're anti Israel" prompts Ben Shapiro's response: "And it is totally fine to say to people who wish to destroy our civilization, no, your values suck, and they don't belong here."

- The speakers claim that American financial institutions and tech companies are deeply involved in the Gaza killings. They name banks, pension funds, Amazon, Google, and Microsoft as having provided services and access to Palestinian data that enabled Israel to set up systems to mass target and kill Palestinians. - They describe an application called Where is Daddy, asserting it allows the army to randomly track people and reach them even when they are with their families, facilitating harm. - The discussion characterizes Israel as possessing the most sophisticated military in the region, knowing precisely what it is doing for two years, and notes that many Israeli soldiers are breaking down, with rising suicidality among young soldiers who have served. - They argue that soldiers have been indoctrinated into becoming executioners of genocide, and that intervention is necessary to prevent further brutality. - The speakers contend that much of this action is driven by people outside Israel who defend the regime, which they describe as having imposed a military dictatorship on Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza (the latter until 2005), and also affecting Israelis who are part of the system. They state that brutalizing others compromises humanity. - Speaker 0 presses for clarification about the existence of the Where is Daddy app, asking if it was a dream or a claim already stated. - Speaker 1 clarifies that Israel has developed an automated system to determine targets through computing, with data supplied by tech companies. He mentions Palantir as one company that publicly supports Israel. He references a public debate in which a Polish person protests that he is killing families, and the response is “you are killing civilians in Gaza,” to which the other person replies that the targets are “most probably terrorists.”

Speaker 0: Do we need this connection with Israel? What is it? No one ever explains what it's for. I feel like. Right? That would help everybody have a much better understanding, you know, because it starts to feel like America is just a shell company, an LLC for Israel. That's what it starts to feel like a lot of times, you know? Do you feel like that that's realistic, or do you feel like that that's off base? Speaker 1: I would I wouldn't send them a dime. Like, that's my position. I don't think whatever we're getting isn't worth it.