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In this episode of The Megyn Kelly Show, Megyn Kelly interviews Dr. Leonard Sax, a physician and psychologist known for his books, including *Why Gender Matters*. They discuss the inherent differences between boys and girls, emphasizing that these differences extend beyond physical traits to aspects like brain wiring, sensory perception, and learning styles. Dr. Sax cites recent research showing distinct brain connectivity patterns in boys and girls during the third trimester of pregnancy, suggesting that gender differences are hardwired. Dr. Sax shares anecdotes from his practice illustrating how these differences manifest in everyday situations, such as a boy's inability to detect odors compared to a girl’s heightened sensitivity. He argues that educational approaches often fail to recognize these differences, leading to a growing gender gap in academic achievement, with boys increasingly disengaged from school. The conversation shifts to the impact of societal changes on gender identity, particularly regarding transgender issues. Dr. Sax criticizes the American Academy of Pediatrics for endorsing guidelines that he believes lack evidence and harm children. He discusses the phenomenon of rapid onset gender dysphoria, suggesting that many young people who transition may later regret it, emphasizing the importance of a cautious approach to gender identity issues. Dr. Sax advocates for parental involvement in children's lives, stressing the need for strong family relationships and limiting screen time. He encourages parents to prioritize family meals and create supportive environments for their children, particularly in the face of societal pressures and the influence of social media. The episode concludes with a call for parents to assert their authority and guide their children through the complexities of modern life, reinforcing the idea that understanding gender differences can help break down stereotypes and foster healthier development.

Joe Rogan and Dr. Debra Soh discuss the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, with Rogan sharing that several of his friends have contracted the virus, while Soh notes she has not known anyone who has. They touch on the importance of maintaining health and the potential benefits of vitamin D, C, and zinc in relation to COVID-19. Soh introduces her book, "The End of Gender," clarifying that it does not advocate for a purely self-identified view of gender but rather critiques the misinformation surrounding gender and its implications on society. She emphasizes her background in sexual neuroscience and her transition from academia to journalism, driven by concerns over the academic climate regarding discussions on gender transition in children. The conversation shifts to the societal pressures surrounding gender identity, particularly for children, and the potential consequences of early transitioning. Soh argues that many children who express gender dysphoria may not actually be transgender but could be experiencing other influences, such as social pressures or mental health issues. She highlights the lack of nuanced discussion in the media and academia about these topics, which can lead to harmful decisions. Rogan and Soh discuss the rise of rapid onset gender dysphoria, particularly among adolescent girls, and the implications of this phenomenon. Soh expresses concern over the medical community's approach to gender dysphoria, suggesting that many professionals are hesitant to challenge the prevailing narratives due to fear of backlash. They also explore the stigma surrounding discussions of sex and gender, with Soh advocating for a more open and fact-based dialogue. The conversation touches on the complexities of sexual orientation and the differences between biological sex and gender identity, with Soh asserting that there are two genders based on biological sex. Soh discusses the societal implications of sex education and the need for comprehensive approaches to sexual health, arguing that misinformation can lead to negative outcomes for both men and women. They conclude by reflecting on the importance of open discussions about these topics and the need for a balanced perspective in media and academia. The conversation also delves into the challenges of discussing pornography, with Soh acknowledging the potential negative effects of excessive consumption while advocating for a more nuanced understanding of its role in society. They discuss the cultural differences in attitudes toward sex and the impact of societal norms on individual behavior. Overall, the dialogue emphasizes the need for open discourse on gender and sexuality, the importance of scientific inquiry, and the potential consequences of societal pressures on individual identity and health.

In the last decade, there has been a significant increase in teenage girls without prior gender dysphoria identifying as transgender, often influenced by peers and social media. Between 2016 and 2017, requests for gender surgeries among young women in the U.S. quadrupled. Abigail Shrier, author of *Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters*, discusses this alarming trend, emphasizing the lack of medical oversight in the current affirmative care model, which encourages doctors to affirm a teenager's self-diagnosis without thorough evaluation. Shrier highlights that many of these girls, often from supportive backgrounds, are experiencing mental health issues and find validation in transitioning. She argues that the current medical regime lacks safeguards, leading to potentially irreversible decisions made by young individuals. The influence of social media and the allure of being part of an oppressed minority contribute to this phenomenon. Parents, particularly those who are politically progressive, often feel helpless and fear losing custody if they question their child's decision to transition. Shrier notes that many parents are blindsided by the rapid changes in their children's identities and the aggressive push from activists and educators. The conversation around gender identity has become a cultural battleground, with significant implications for women's rights and the experiences of transgender individuals.

Jordan Peterson emphasizes the importance of self-acceptance while also advocating for personal responsibility and growth. He argues that identity is multifaceted, shaped by relationships with family, community, and societal ideals, and cannot be reduced to mere self-perception. Sara Stockton, a therapist with extensive experience in transgender issues, shares her concerns about the current approach to gender dysphoria treatment, particularly in children. She recounts her background in developing assessment guidelines for transgender youth and her shift away from gender-affirming practices after observing troubling trends in her practice. Stockton discusses her experiences with children questioning their gender identity, highlighting the confusion and disorientation these discussions can cause. She expresses alarm over the rush to medical interventions, noting that the current standard of care has shifted from thorough assessments to quick evaluations, often leading to irreversible decisions made without adequate understanding of the implications. She raises concerns about the lack of informed consent regarding the long-term effects of hormone treatments and surgeries, particularly for minors. The conversation touches on the societal pressures surrounding gender identity, including the influence of social media and the normalization of diverse identities. Stockton notes that many children presenting with gender dysphoria do not have a clear understanding of their feelings and that the current environment encourages rapid transitions without sufficient exploration of underlying issues. She warns against the potential for psychological epidemics, drawing parallels to past trends in mental health crises among adolescents. Both Peterson and Stockton critique the current therapeutic landscape, where affirming a child's self-identified gender often takes precedence over comprehensive psychological evaluation. They discuss the implications of this shift for the mental health of children and the ethical responsibilities of therapists. Stockton concludes by expressing her commitment to advocating for children and ensuring they receive appropriate care, free from the pressures of societal trends and medical interventions that may not be in their best interest.

Jordan Peterson interviews Abigail Shrier, author of "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters." Shrier explains she wrote the book after a mother reached out about her daughter, who transitioned to transgender without prior symptoms of gender dysphoria. Shrier highlights a surge in teenage girls identifying as transgender, claiming this demographic shift is unprecedented and likening it to an epidemic. She notes that traditional gender dysphoria primarily affected boys, but now teenage girls are the leading demographic, often influenced by social media and peer pressure. Shrier criticizes the affirmative care model adopted by major psychological associations, which she argues lacks medical judgment and oversight. She expresses concern that therapists are compelled to affirm a patient's self-diagnosis without thorough investigation. Shrier cites a significant increase in young women seeking gender transition, with statistics indicating a rise from 0.01% to 2% among high school students identifying as transgender. The conversation touches on the role of social media in shaping identity and the potential for psychological contagion among adolescents. Shrier argues that many girls are encouraged to falsify their narratives about gender dysphoria, complicating the diagnostic process. She also discusses the long-term risks associated with medical transition, including irreversible changes from testosterone and surgeries like double mastectomy, which she claims lack adequate medical oversight. Shrier emphasizes the need for scrutiny in medical practices surrounding gender transition, advocating for a more cautious approach to treatment. She reflects on the backlash she has faced for her views, asserting that the truth must be prioritized over ideological commitments. The interview concludes with a call for open discussion and critical examination of the current trends in gender identity treatment.

J. Michael Bailey discusses the retraction of his article on Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) from the *Archives of Sexual Behavior*, attributing it to pressure from transgender activists rather than academic misconduct. He claims the retraction has increased the article's visibility, with nearly 100,000 downloads. The article, co-authored with Susanna Diaz, explores a surge in gender dysphoria cases, particularly among adolescent girls with pre-existing mental health issues, who suddenly identify as transgender. Bailey argues that many of these girls demand serious medical treatments, often leading to worsened mental health after social transition. He contrasts two theories explaining the rise in transgender identification: increased societal acceptance and social contagion, particularly among females. Bailey emphasizes the need for further research on ROGD and plans a new study with Lisa Littman and Ken Zucker to gather extensive data on gender dysphoric adolescents. He also touches on the complexities of sexual orientation, paraphilias, and societal influences on gender identity, advocating for open discussion and research in these areas.

Half of children report being online almost constantly, leading to a significant shift in childhood experiences. The introduction of smartphones and social media platforms like TikTok and Instagram has created an environment that resembles addiction, particularly detrimental for children aged 12 to 14. Jonathan Haidt discusses the negative impact of technology on youth, emphasizing the decline in positive emotions and the rise in anxiety and depression, especially among young women. This trend accelerated around 2014, coinciding with the widespread adoption of social media. Haidt notes that prior to 2012, rates of internalizing disorders were stable, but they sharply increased thereafter, particularly among girls aged 10 to 14. This demographic has seen alarming rises in self-harm and suicidal behavior, which correlates with increased social media use. The addictive nature of these platforms, driven by algorithms that optimize for short-term attention, exacerbates these issues. The conversation highlights the need for children to engage in real-world play and social interactions, which are essential for healthy development. Haidt proposes four norms to combat these challenges: no smartphones before high school, no social media until age 16, phone-free schools, and encouraging more free play and independence in real-world settings. He argues that these measures can help restore a healthier childhood experience and reduce anxiety and depression rates. The discussion underscores the importance of addressing the collective action problem parents face when trying to limit their children's screen time, as peer pressure often leads to conformity in smartphone and social media use. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the urgent need for societal change to protect children from the harmful effects of technology and to foster environments that promote healthy development and resilience.

In this episode of The Megyn Kelly Show, Dr. Lisa Littman discusses her research on the surge of transgender identification among teenagers, particularly girls, which she terms "rapid onset gender dysphoria." Dr. Littman, a physician and researcher at Brown University, observed a statistically unusual increase in teenagers, especially girls, identifying as transgender and sought to study the phenomenon. Her findings suggest that social and peer influences may play a significant role in these identifications, leading to concerns about a potential social contagion effect. Dr. Littman faced significant backlash from trans activists and some members of the medical community, who accused her of bigotry and conducting shoddy science. Despite this, she received support from many parents who felt their children were being rushed into transitions without adequate evaluation. Her research indicated that many of the teenagers identifying as transgender had pre-existing mental health issues, raising questions about the underlying causes of their gender dysphoria. She emphasizes the importance of thorough evaluations before transitioning, noting that many detransitioners reported feeling pressured by healthcare providers to pursue medical interventions. Dr. Littman highlights the need for a balanced discussion about gender dysphoria, advocating for the inclusion of diverse experiences and cautioning against the oversimplification of the issue. The conversation also touches on the role of social media in shaping perceptions of gender identity among youth, with many parents reporting that their children were influenced by online communities. Dr. Littman calls for a more nuanced understanding of gender dysphoria that considers various factors, including mental health and social dynamics, rather than solely affirming a child's self-identification. She concludes by stressing the need for open dialogue and research to ensure that young people receive appropriate care and support.

The discussion centers on the rapidly growing movement among millennials identifying as non-binary or a third gender, with about 10% of this demographic embracing such identities. Dr. Debra Soh, a neuroscientist and author of "The End of Gender," expresses concern that many young people may be misdiagnosed as transgender when they are actually just exploring their sexual orientation, particularly in the context of gender dysphoria. Soh argues that transitioning at a young age can lead to negative outcomes, including the potential for regret and mental health issues later in life. She emphasizes the importance of allowing children to explore their identities without rushing into medical interventions. Soh critiques the current academic climate, noting that many researchers avoid discussing controversial topics due to fear of backlash. She highlights the phenomenon of rapid onset gender dysphoria, particularly among young women, suggesting that social pressures may play a significant role. The conversation also touches on the implications of trans women competing in women's sports and the potential dangers of placing individuals in prisons based on gender identity rather than biological sex. Soh advocates for a return to evidence-based discussions about gender and sexuality, warning that the denial of biological realities could have serious societal consequences.

In a conversation between Joe Rogan and Abigail Shrier, they discuss Shrier's book, "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters," which addresses the rising trend of teenage girls identifying as transgender. Shrier emphasizes that her concerns are not about adult transgender individuals, whom she supports, but rather about young girls who may be influenced by social media and peer groups to transition without fully understanding the implications. Shrier recounts how she became involved in this topic after hearing from parents whose daughters suddenly identified as transgender after experiencing mental health issues. She notes that many of these girls are high-achieving but socially isolated, leading them to seek identity through transitioning. Shrier highlights the alarming increase in teenage girls seeking hormone treatments and surgeries, citing a study by Lisa Littman that found a significant rise in such cases, particularly among friend groups. The discussion touches on the influence of social media, which Shrier argues exacerbates mental health issues among young girls, leading them to view transitioning as a solution to their problems. She points out that many girls who transition do not have a history of gender dysphoria and may be influenced by trends rather than genuine feelings of being in the wrong body. Rogan and Shrier also discuss the lack of medical oversight in the transitioning process, with Shrier noting that some clinics allow minors to access hormones without thorough psychological evaluation. They express concern about the long-term effects of hormone treatments and surgeries, particularly for those who may later regret their decisions. Shrier argues that the current approach to transgender issues often overlooks the complexities of adolescent mental health and the potential for social contagion, where young girls may adopt transgender identities as a response to peer dynamics. She calls for a more nuanced discussion that considers the mental health of these girls and the societal pressures they face. The conversation also addresses the backlash against those who question the prevailing narratives around transgender issues, with Shrier sharing her experiences of being criticized for her views. Both Rogan and Shrier emphasize the importance of open dialogue and the need to protect young people from making irreversible decisions without adequate support and information. Ultimately, Shrier advocates for a careful examination of the factors influencing young girls' decisions to transition and the potential consequences of those decisions, urging society to prioritize the mental health and well-being of these adolescents.