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Speaker 0 references an email exchange between Jeffrey Leeds and former Secretary of State Colin Powell in which Powell allegedly acknowledges that Israel “has 200 nuclear weapons” and that “the nuclear non proliferation treaty has not been signed by Israel,” and asks whether under US law the United States should cut off support to Israel because it is a nuclear power that has not signed the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. Speaker 1 declines to engage: “Shouldn't you ask Colin Powell that? I I'm not gonna speak to this particular traffic, and I'm certainly not discuss doesn't have nuclear weapons? I'm certainly not going to discuss matters of intelligence from the from the podium, and I'm not I have no I have no comment.” Speaker 0 reiterates: “the email says the boys in Tehran know Israel has 200. All we targeted on Tehran, and we have thousands. I mean, that that seems to indicate that that there's a knowledge of an Israeli nuclear program, which would make USA to Israel illegal.” Speaker 1 responds: “I think I've answered your question.” Speaker 0 asks again whether the understanding is correct: “am I do I have the correct understanding of US law that that we are we are not allowed to support a nuclear power that has not signed the nuclear nonproliferation treaty?” Speaker 1 says: “Look, we obviously support the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. I'm not a I'm not a legal expert on all the tenets of it, and I'm certainly not going to speak about the the details that you've revealed here in this email traffic. That would be inappropriate for me to discuss one way or the other. I'm not gonna There do” Speaker 0 notes that sanctions have been imposed on North Korea and Iran for nuclear proliferation, and asks why Israel is not facing any consequences in light of Powell’s alleged email. Speaker 1 reframes: “That's a very colorful way of getting back to the same question you just asked me, but I'm going to refer you back to the transcript when you see it this afternoon to what I said before to your question. So you're familiar with this email. Right? I'm not. Oh. I have not seen it. I'm not I can't speak to the email. Frankly, even if I'd seen it, Zurich, I wouldn't engage in that kind of a discussion from the podium.”

Speaker 0: Were I a Jew, I would be a Zionist. And my father pointed out to me, I did not need to be a Jew to be a Zionist, for I am. Israel is essential to security of Jews worldwide. Speaker 1: That this is not theoretical. This is not just about things that happen on Twitter. Antisemitism kills. Hate kills. Speaker 2: I come before you not only as The United States Secretary of State, but also as a Jew. My grandfather, Maurice Blinken, fled pogroms in Russia. My stepfather, Samuel Pizar, survived concentration camps, Auschwitz, Dachau, Maidanic. Speaker 3: We have a common agenda to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and preventing Iran's aggression, maintaining the security and prosperity of this region, and seeking to expand the circle of peace. Speaker 4: On October 7, Hamas terrorists murdered nearly 1,200 people, including over 40 Americans, and kidnapped hundreds of civilians. They perpetrated the deadliest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. Speaker 5: Holocaust. Holocaust. My grandfather fled Nazi Germany. Fled Nazi Germany. If we wanna create peace in the Middle East, resolve the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, we don't need boycotts. We need business. We don't need divestment. We need investment. We don't need sanctions. We need startups. We need startups. They met with several Israeli companies looking to expand into The United States. Speaker 1: Actual, literal, no shit, Jews will not replace us anti Semites as very fine people. Speaker 6: I support Israel's ability to defend itself. Speaker 7: It's about time we stop those of us who support as most of us do, Israel and this body for apologizing for our support for Israel. There's no apology to be made. None. It is the best $3,000,000,000 investment we make. $3,000,000,000 investment we make. Speaker 8: two of us were brought together by Apex Education Foundation for a mission to Israel. We hear the call of our Jewish brothers and sisters. Israel was this place I had always felt an, I don't know, unexplainable pull. Speaker 5: And the Jewish people have been the recipients of boycotts for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Speaker 6: So I just had a frank and constructive meeting with prime minister Netanyahu. I told him that I will always ensure that Israel is able to defend itself, including from Iran and Iran backed militias such as Hamas and Hezbollah. Speaker 3: Israelis do not need to be lectured about the importance of peace by foreign leaders. Speaker 9: Why does Israel need our help? We need to get out of their way. Speaker 6: I've said it many times, but it bears repeating. Israel has a right to defend itself. Speaker 2: The message that I bring to Israel is this. You may be strong enough on your own to defend yourself, but as long as America exists, you will never ever have to. We will always be there by your side. Speaker 1: He is a friend of the Jewish people by aligning not even with Israel, but with a certain kind of politics within Israel. And I just think that the American Jewish community are a lot smarter than that. Speaker 7: And even suggested breaking from the long standing US policies on settlements. Jerusalem. Jerusalem. Speaker 9: I was one of the few in congress that said it's none of our business, and Israel should take care of themselves. Speaker 8: Perhaps he does not know that I am the child of a holocaust survivor. Perhaps he does not know that my mother lost almost all her family at the hands of the Nazis. At the hands of the Nazis. Speaker 9: Israel has 200, 300 nuclear missiles, they can take care of themselves. Why should we commit? We don't even have a treaty with Israel. We don't even have a treaty with Israel. Speaker 7: Were there not an Israel, The United States Of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region. Speaker 9: Why why do we have this automatic commitment that we're gonna send our kids and send our money endlessly, to to Israel?

Speaker 0 describes a dynamic of collaboration and tension around Iran, noting that the Israelis are “very American” and that they could have shouting matches in meetings over whose idea is best, but then go have lunch and remain amicable. He emphasizes that Israelis are good allies that the U.S. needs to protect, and asserts that CIA and Al Qaeda “worked closely together in Iraq. And Syria.” Speaker 1 adds that in Syria the aim was to overthrow Assad. Speaker 0 explains that there were times when covert action findings allowed meetings to talk to the “quote, unquote, enemies” to try to bring things down, as CIA officers. Speaker 1 observes that most of the world has a problem with Al Qaeda and ISIS (Daesh), but implies the CIA’s cooperation with ISIS and Al Qaeda lowers that problem. Speaker 0 argues that if the plan is for the U.S. to work with them, to work on a security agreement, which has been done with enemies before, the U.S. would have played that role side by side with diplomats and other involved countries, and he wouldn’t be surprised if that were happening; he calls it possibly hopeful. Speaker 1 notes that newspapers in the United States once celebrated Qasem Soleimani as a fighter with American troops against ISIS and Al Qaeda, and now that stance has changed. The speaker concludes with the reversal of priorities: “Now we have to go to Als ISIS and Al Qaeda to go back against Iran.”

Speaker 0 asks why President Trump unleashed Prime Minister Netanyahu to resume genocide in Gaza, resulting in the intentional killing of 400 civilians. Speaker 1 believes Trump has no choice, due to agreements with major donors beyond Miriam Adelson, obliging him to underwrite Netanyahu's actions. Speaker 1 notes Netanyahu arranged a meeting between the U.S. and Azerbaijan, not the State Department, indicating the Israel lobby's grip. Speaker 1 believes Trump is obliged to comply and won't diverge. Speaker 0 asks if Trump has no choice but to militarily back Israel if it attacks Iran. Speaker 1 thinks so, noting the possibility of Israel precipitating a war with Iran. The expectation is the U.S. will reinforce Israeli actions, with joint strike planning and intelligence sharing already in place. Speaker 1 believes it's a foregone conclusion, though the timing is uncertain.

Speaker 0 argues that Israel, through its lobby, has manifested so much power over the United States Congress that the country is embroiled in wars they believe they should not be in. He states that whenever Israel is mentioned, someone claims you’re an anti-Semite, and he contends that policies in the Middle East have been one-sided and subjective, leading to many enemies and the importing of terrorists as a consequence. He asserts: “Israel through their lobby has manifested total power of the congress of the United,” and expresses a concern that taxpayers and the citizens of the United States should control their government, not a foreign entity. Speaker 1 challenges these assertions, saying: “You did. That’s not what you said. You said they’re controlling our foreign policy. They’re controlling our domestic policy.” He presses back, stating: “That quote, they are influencing and the sole control of influencing of our domestic policy is an absurdity. It sounds like you are a kook.” He explicitly disputes the idea that Israel controls the Congress and domestic policy. Speaker 0 clarifies, “I believe they control the senate and the house foreign affairs committee.” Speaker 1 repeats that claim as insane, prompting Speaker 0 to insist: “I’m not suggesting it. I served in congress for seven…,” implying a longer service and experience to support his concerns, though the sentence is cut off. The exchange centers on claims of disproportionate Israeli influence in U.S. federal policy, the objectivity of Middle East policy, and the contention that foreign lobbies, particularly related to Israel, have undue power over congressional decision-making, contrasted with direct rebuttals labeling such claims as irrational or insane.

Speaker 1 acknowledges that intelligence sharing between the U.S. and Israel is not total and that allies spy on each other, including domestically. Speaker 1, identifying as conservative, says this is expected because people act in their rational self-interest. Speaker 0 asks if it is in America's interest for Israel to spy on the U.S., including on the president. Speaker 1 responds that the close alliance with Israel provides huge benefits to the U.S. Speaker 0 presses on the issue of spying, asking why an American lawmaker wouldn't tell a client state that spying on the U.S. is not allowed. Speaker 0 expresses that it is weird not to say that, but Speaker 1 seems unable to.

Speaker 0 argues that "Israel's our greatest ally. We should never ask anything of them." They echo: "Protecting Israel's most important thing. They're our only real ally." They question, "If they're our only real ally, why does Israel have a long history of transferring military technology, including American military technology to China? To China?" and ask, "Why is China running the Port Of Haifa, Israel's biggest port?" They claim "From Israel's perspective, we're not a close ally" and "The loyalty is not requited. It's one way." They say Netanyahu "has pushed it too far" and that "the governor of Israel, in particular, the prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, has pushed it too far." They add "I control Donald Trump. I control the United States Congress. I control The United States." They cite Trump on West Bank annexation: "No. I will not allow it. It's not gonna happen." and "I will not allow Israel to annex the West Bank." The speaker concludes "It's been enough. It's time to stop" and that "This is why Donald Trump has lost support over this Israel question."

Speaker 0 questions Speaker 1's focus on defending Israel, suggesting it represents foreign influence in US politics. Speaker 1 accuses Speaker 0 of singling out Israel and implying Jewish control over foreign policy, labeling it an antisemitic trope. Speaker 0 denies antisemitism, stating the concern is about a foreign government's influence, not Jews or Judaism. Speaker 1 challenges Speaker 0 to provide another reason for focusing on Israel. Speaker 0 cites the potential for war with Iran and Speaker 1's stated goal of defending Israel upon entering Congress. Speaker 0 asserts that a lawmaker's job isn't to defend any foreign government's interests, regardless of ancestry, and condemns the antisemitism accusation.

Speaker 0 questions Speaker 1 about the population and ethnic mix of Iran, which Speaker 1 is unable to answer. Speaker 1 defends his lack of knowledge, stating he doesn't memorize population tables. They then argue about whether Iran is trying to murder Donald Trump and whether the U.S. is supporting Israel's military actions. Speaker 0 claims the U.S. government denied acting on Israel's behalf. The discussion shifts to whether it is acceptable for Israel to spy on the U.S., including the president. Speaker 1 says allies spy on each other and that it's in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel, despite the spying. Speaker 0 asks why Speaker 1, as an American lawmaker, doesn't object to the spying. Speaker 2 criticizes Speaker 1's stance, calling it insane and not conservative to defend being spied on.

In 2002, before the Iraq invasion, Netanyahu testified to US Congress, stating Saddam Hussein was developing nuclear weapons and hiding facilities underground. This was allegedly false and led to war. Netanyahu also stated he wanted regime change in Iran and questioned how to achieve it. Speaker 0 asks: How can we trust someone who goaded the US into war in Iraq based on falsehoods? Given recent events, why are we confident Netanyahu won't do the same with Iran, given his 20-year call for regime change? Speaker 1 says the President and Secretary have close working relationships with Netanyahu. The US commitment to Israel's security transcends any government. The US condemns Iran's attacks. Speaker 0 notes Netanyahu heads the Israeli government and there's a difference between condemning actions and the US getting into a war with Iran. Speaker 1 says the US is not interested in an all-out conflict with Iran, but is committed to Israel's security.

Speaker 0 questions Speaker 1's focus on defending Israel, suggesting it represents foreign influence over US politics. Speaker 1 accuses Speaker 0 of obsessing over Israel and implying Jewish control of foreign policy, which Speaker 0 denies. Speaker 0 refutes being antisemitic, stating the concern is with a foreign government's influence, not Jewish people. Speaker 0 points out Speaker 1's stated goal to defend Israel upon entering Congress. Speaker 0 asserts that a lawmaker's job isn't to defend foreign governments, and accuses Speaker 1 of being "sleazy" for implying antisemitism. Speaker 1 questions why Speaker 0 is only asking about Israel. Speaker 0 reiterates that the issue concerns a foreign government, not Jewish people.

Speaker 0 describes a 2021 claim by the commander of Israeli intelligence to design a machine to resolve a human bottleneck in locating and approving targets in war. A recent investigation by Plus 972 Magazine and Local Call reveals that the Israeli army developed an AI-based Lavender system to designate targets and direct airstrikes. During the initial weeks of the Lavender operation, the system designated about 37,000 Palestinians as targets and directed airstrikes on their homes. The system reportedly had an error rate of about 10%, and there was no requirement to verify the machine’s data. The Israeli army systematically attacked targeted individuals at night in their homes while their whole family was present. An automated component, known as “where’s daddy,” tracked targeted individuals and carried out bombings when they entered their family residences. The result, according to the report, was that thousands of women and children were killed by Israeli airstrikes. Israeli intelligence officers allegedly stated that the IDF bombed homes as a first option, and in several cases entire families were murdered when the actual target was not inside. In one instance, four buildings were destroyed along with everyone inside because a single target was in one of them. For targets marked as low level by Lavender, cheaper bombs were used, destroying entire buildings and killing mostly civilians and entire families. It was alleged that the IDF did not want to waste expensive bombs on “unimportant people,” and it was decided that for every low-level Hamas operative Lavender marked, it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians; for a senior Hamas official, more than 100 civilians could be killed. Most AI targets were never tracked before the war. Lavender analyzed information collected on the 2,300,000 residents of the Gaza Strip through mass surveillance, assessing the likelihood of each person being a militant and giving a rating from 1 to 100. If the rating was high enough, the person and their entire family were killed. Lavender flagged individuals with patterns similar to Hamas, including police, civil defense, relatives, and residents with similar names or nicknames. The report notes that this kind of tracking system has existed in the US for years. Speaker 1 presents a counterpoint: a “fine gentleman of the secret service” claims to provide a list of every threat made about the president since February 3 and profiles of every threat maker, implying that targets could be identified through broad data collection including emails, chats, SMS. The passage suggests a tool akin to a Google search but including private communications. Speaker 0 adds that although some claim Israel controls the US, Joe Biden says Israel serves US interests. Speaker 2: A speaker asserts, “There’s no apology to be made. None. It is the best $3,000,000,000 investment we make,” and claims that without Israel the United States would have to invent an Israel to protect its regional interests. Speaker 0 closes reporting for Infowars, credited to Greg Reese.

Speaker 0 asserts that they have never taken money from the Israel lobby and asks if Speaker 1 has. Speaker 1 clarifies that APAC raises a lot of money for him, but emphasizes that the fundraisers are individuals, not the PAC itself, meaning it’s a misnomer to say the PAC raises money. He describes APAC as an American lobby and explains that APAC stands for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. He admits APAC is not a “foreign lobby” and says its purpose is not effectively defined as a single objective. He states his own entry into Congress thirteen years ago with the goal of being the leading defender of Israel in the United States Senate and says he has worked every day to that end. He notes that APAC is sometimes more effective than he wishes and then characterizes APAC as “a fever swamp of terrified of APAC.” Speaker 0 challenges the idea that APAC lobbies on behalf of the Israeli government, insisting that APAC lobbies for a foreign government. Speaker 1 responds that APAC is not lobbying for a foreign government; it is lobbying for a strong US–Israel relationship and for America and Israel to be closely allied. Speaker 0 maintains that APAC is lobbying for the interests of another country and reiterates that it is not true that APAC has nothing to do with the government. Speaker 0 asks about how much contact APAC leaders have with the government of Israel, and Speaker 1 acknowledges some contact, suggesting that the government of Israel is often frustrated with APAC, and asks whether they talk. He compares the situation to lobbying for more US–Mexico trade, noting that one would talk to both sides. Speaker 0 accepts that there are many countries that lobby Washington, including Israel, and expresses familiarity with how lobbying works, including knowing Americans who lobby on behalf of foreign governments and even being related to some. The central question for Speaker 0 is not whether foreign governments lobby the United States, but why it isn’t admitted as a common practice. He states that it’s true that many countries lobby Washington, including Israel, and asks why they aren’t registered as foreign lobbies. Speaker 1 responds that they are not registered as such.

Speaker 0 believes the Jewish lobby in the United States is too powerful, even for Israel's interests, because they pressure too many people. This pressure, exerted through various means, ultimately doesn't help Israel. The president of the United States pays attention to this lobby because they are strong and control many things. When asked to elaborate on what they control, Speaker 0 lists newspapers, media, banks, and finances. Speaker 1 expresses surprise and asks if Speaker 0 really believes the Jewish community in the United States is that powerful.

Speaker 1 describes the damage: at least three bases in the Gulf have been devastated, including the fifth fleet headquarters; satellite imagery suggests the base in Bahrain looks like Gaza and has been “moonscape.” He says he doesn’t know about casualties because he isn’t sure if the base was evacuated, but the imagery indicates it has been flattened. He notes the base was expensive and long a hub for the U.S. Navy in the Middle East and has been “completely taken offline.” He mentions a Middle East expert who doubts a quick rebuild, suggesting that Arabs will be irate and not want the U.S. to build back in their countries after the war ends. Speaker 0 adds that the Arabs “give us billions in foreign investment” and in exchange the U.S. promised to protect them, but asks why we would defend them given the current actions. Speaker 1 states there are credible reports that whatever air defense systems were in Arab countries were sent over to Israel and left American bases and people vulnerable, implying the U.S. prioritized protecting Israeli targets over U.S. troops. He reflects that, a year or two ago, he wouldn’t have believed this, but after watching a Huckabee interview, he thinks the United States is being led by its proxy and calls it the proxy being the housekeeper while the U.S. is the homeowner. He says the U.S. is “being led around the nose… by what should be its proxy.” Speaker 0 questions the dynamic, saying, “they’re the housekeeper. We’re the homeowner,” and asks for clarity on the situation. Speaker 1 adds a personal note: a Gulf-based colleague sent a State Department warning to get out, with the message that people are “on your own” for evacuation—no flights provided. He contrasts this with the British government evacuating its people “no questions asked” until twenty-four hours ago. He concludes that the sole superpower is picking a fight with Iran’s missile city and not providing exfiltration for its people, and asserts that this indicates a decline of the empire. He mentions that the Chinese view is that their time is at hand due to what he calls national suicide with this insanity.

In this exchange, Speaker 0 raises the issue of the USS Liberty attack in 1967, arguing that if truth matters, the Israeli government must be held accountable because the American flag was flying on that ship. Speaker 0 presses why, in a discussion of modern Israeli–American relations, Speaker 1 would deem the attack “irrelevant” to current ties. Speaker 1 responds that when assessing today’s relations, citing the 1967 attack as a basis for judgment is irrelevant—comparable to using evidence from World War II or 1776 to define present-day relations with Britain or Germany. He emphasizes that while the attack was horrible and tragic for those involved, and that Israel paid reparations, the actual naval record indicates the incident was a mistaken and tragic event. He notes that those who reference the USS Liberty often do so to suggest Israel deliberately harmed America, and asks if that is Speaker 0’s broader point. Speaker 0 reiterates that truth requires accountability from the Israeli government, given the American flag on the ship. Speaker 1 points to the naval investigations, stating that multiple investigations exist and that the Israeli military at the time was flying Mirage planes and the USS Liberty was operating off-grid. He explains that the Israeli forces mistook the ship for an Egyptian vessel and believed it was shelling Al-Arish, which was not true. He describes the sequence: the American flag was knocked down in the initial attack, the engagement lasted about ninety minutes, and once it became clear the vessel was American, the attack was halted and a ship was dispatched to assist the Liberty. He also notes there have been other unfortunate friendly-fire incidents in war, such as during the Gulf War when US forces killed British troops. Speaker 0 asks about the broader agenda behind raising the incident, suggesting that it is not limited to that specific event. Speaker 1 acknowledges the question but questions the motive and implies that it is not an appropriate basis for evaluating current U.S.–Israel relations. Speaker 0 asserts that there are ongoing problems in the relationship, but again emphasizes the six-decade-old incident as relevant to the discussion. Speaker 1 maintains that, in the same way that many histories exist, there are many countries and contexts, and reiterates that the question is not answered satisfactorily. The exchange ends with Speaker 1 indicating this will be the last question.

The discussion centers on US support for Israel, with Speaker 0 stating that the US provides Israel with $3 billion annually in military aid, which benefits US national security through intelligence sharing, particularly from Mossad. Speaker 1 questions the cost of military actions to protect Israel and whether Israel spies on the US, including the president. Speaker 0 acknowledges that allies spy on each other and defends the alliance with Israel as beneficial for the US. The conversation shifts to AIPAC, with Speaker 1 questioning whether it lobbies on behalf of the Israeli government and why it isn't registered as a foreign lobby. Speaker 0 denies this, stating that AIPAC is an American lobby that promotes a strong US-Israeli relationship. Speaker 1 suggests AIPAC's goals are shaped by the Israeli government, while Speaker 0 denies coordination and accuses Speaker 1 of being obsessed with Israel. Speaker 1 denies being anti-Semitic and defends their right to question foreign influence on US politics.

The discussion centers on how politicization of intelligence has manifested in different eras, comparing past and present administrations. Speaker 0 asks whether the politicized weapons claims about Iraq and the CIA’s statements in the 1990s can be compared to today’s politicization of intelligence under John Ratcliffe and Tulsi Gabbard as head of DNI, arguing it is much worse now because of the mediocrity of those in control of key agencies. Speaker 1 counters by recalling the 1980s, noting that there was significant politicization of the Soviet threat to justify Reagan’s defense buildup, and adds that this is why he testified against Robert Gates in 1991. He asserts that politicization is bad, and insists that the current situation is worse than in the past. Speaker 1 explains: “It’s Because I look at the people who are ahead of these groups. Come on. Let’s be serious.” He targets the leadership of the director of national intelligence, the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and the CIA, saying, “Have you ever seen a cabinet in The United States of such mediocrity, of such venality?” He emphasizes his background, stating, “I haven’t,” and that nothing compares to what is going on now, warning that “a lot of damage is being done to The United States and to the constitution of The United States and to the importance of separation of powers and the importance of rule of law and the importance of checks and balances. This is very serious stuff.” Speaker 0 attempts to steer toward historical figures like Robert Maxwell, but Speaker 1 dismisses that concern as off point, insisting he is making a point about Israel. The exchange then shifts to U.S. support for Israel, with Speaker 1 asserting that “Israel gets what it wants from The United States. It gets it from democratic presidents and from republican presidents.” He also criticizes Barack Obama for signing what he calls “that ten year $40,000,000,000 arms aid agreement,” arguing that Obama “never should have signed” it “because they treated Obama so shabbily in the first place.”

Speaker 0 questions Speaker 1 about Iran, including its population, which Speaker 1 does not know. Speaker 1 defends his lack of knowledge, stating he doesn't memorize population tables. Speaker 0 suggests this information is relevant given Speaker 1's stance on the country. The discussion shifts to whether Iran is trying to murder Donald Trump, which Speaker 1 believes. They also discuss military strikes and US support for Israel. Later, they discuss whether Mossad shares all intelligence with the US, and whether they spy domestically in the United States. Speaker 1 says allies spy on each other, which Speaker 0 questions. Speaker 0 asks if it's in America's interest for Israel to spy on the US, including the president. Speaker 1 says it's in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel, and Speaker 0 questions why Speaker 1 won't say he doesn't want to be spied on.

Speaker 0 asserts that Donald Trump decided to bomb Iran because Israelis said, for the first time, that if Trump did not bomb Iran to take out deep bunkers, Israel would use nuclear weapons; they had never threatened that before, and bombing Iran might save them from the start of World War III by preventing Israeli nuclear use. Speaker 1 asks for clarification, restating that Israelis told the U.S. president to use military power to bomb Iran’s nuclear facilities, or Israel, acting on its own, would use nuclear weapons. They note the problem with that statement, since Israel has never admitted having them. Speaker 0 concurs, and Speaker 1 points out the contradiction: they are saying Israel just admitted to having nuclear weapons, yet the U.S. does not have them in the IAEA treaty. Speaker 0 adds that, if Israeli nuclear whistleblowers are to be believed, Israel has had nuclear weapons, and began working on them in the 1950s.

Speaker 0 discusses working with the Israelis, describing them as “very American” and noting that they could get into shouting matches during meetings over whose idea was best, followed by casual lunch and reconciliation. He emphasizes that Israel is a good ally that the U.S. needs to protect and support, and he asserts that CIA and Al Qaeda had worked closely together in Iraq and in Syria, and that there are times when covert action allowed meetings with the “quote unquote, enemies” to try to bring things down as CIA officers. Speaker 1 adds that most of the world has a problem with Al Qaeda and ISIS/Daesh, but there is less of a problem because the CIA worked with ISIS/Daesh and Al Qaeda. He suggests that if the CIA worked with them, it would be better to understand what they were doing, and if the plan is for the U.S. to work with them on a security agreement, which has been done with enemies before, then this has been done in concert with diplomats and other countries involved. He indicates he wouldn’t be surprised if that was happening and would call it possibly hopeful. Speaker 0 continues by noting that newspapers in the United States once celebrated Qasem Soleimani as a fighter with American troops against ISIS and Al Qaeda. He states that Soleimani “was, and now it's switched,” implying a shift in perception or policy. The overarching theme is the idea of collaboration or coordination with hostile or extremist groups in pursuit of broader strategic objectives, including countering Iran, and the possibility that such collaborations could be framed as necessary or hopeful within a complex web of alliances and covert actions. Speaker 0 ends by reiterating the shift in stance: “Now we have to go to al ISIS and Al Qaeda to go back against Iran.” This underscores a cyclical or ironic pivot in U.S. strategy, moving from partnering with certain adversaries against common threats to reengaging those same groups to counter another adversary. The dialogue presents a candid view of realpolitik, suggesting that relationships with seemingly incompatible actors and shifts in alliances occur as part of broader geopolitical objectives, with collaboration sometimes described as acceptable when it serves strategic goals, and public narratives sometimes contrasting with behind-the-scenes actions.

Speaker 1 acknowledges that Mossad likely doesn't share all intelligence with the U.S., just as the U.S. doesn't share everything with them, but emphasizes it's a close alliance. Speaker 1 assumes all allies, including Israel, spy on the U.S., and attributes this to people acting in their rational self-interest. When asked if it's in America's interest for Israel to spy on the U.S., including on the president, Speaker 1 states it's in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because the U.S. gets huge benefits from it. While acknowledging the spying takes place, Speaker 1 does not express disapproval, but rather focuses on the benefits of the alliance.

Speaker 0: Do we need this connection with Israel? What is it? No one ever explains what it's for. I feel like. Right? That would help everybody have a much better understanding, you know, because it starts to feel like America is just a shell company, an LLC for Israel. That's what it starts to feel like a lot of times, you know? Do you feel like that that's realistic, or do you feel like that that's off base? Speaker 1: I would I wouldn't send them a dime. Like, that's my position. I don't think whatever we're getting isn't worth it.

Speaker 0 expresses the belief that as long as Israel exists and is supported by America, there will always be Muslims who pose a threat and seek to harm us. Speaker 1 disagrees, stating that they do not support Israel and do not believe it is worth American lives or dollars. Speaker 0 questions this stance, arguing that Israel is not comparable to other countries like Saudi Arabia. Speaker 1 clarifies that their main concern is the survival of the United States and expresses concern about the influence of APAC and the lobby on American support for Israeli actions.

Speaker 0 asserts Iran attacked without provocation and insists America must wage war on Israel's behalf, even if it costs American lives. Speaker 0 claims these lives were promised to Israel two thousand years ago. Speaker 1 objects to their children dying for Israel. Speaker 0 dismisses this concern as selfish, stating American children will fight for Israel, who Speaker 0 identifies as America's greatest ally. Speaker 0 urges listeners to send their sons to war, acknowledging Israel funds Speaker 0's paycheck.