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Speaker 0 recounts being told at synagogue while offline that Candice is really going after him, and that heads-up sealed him a little. When he finally turned the phone on, he truly saw all the notifications. He was up until 3AM local time that night dealing with all the messages and emails. It’s not fun. He says, to an extent, it’s part of the nature of the business—when you put yourself out there, you’re going to get pushback. But this is not pushback. This is not someone responding to a legal theory of mine or making an intelligent point about the two-state solution or not two-state solution. No. This is literally just picking a Jewish person and calling him subhuman filth and sinking your band of millions and millions of neo Nazi zealots on a Jewish person who happens to be a husband and father to a young child. So, he says, it’s just awful, awful stuff. And he adds that he’s talking to lawyers. “Aaron, I think I’ve said this publicly already.” He’s a lawyer with his background, he clerked for a federal appeals judge, and he knows a thing or two about United States constitutional law. He thinks that there is a potentially serious case here for defamation, and he is very much speaking with lawyers, and we’ll see what happens.

Antisemitism is “you know, it’s always kind of lurking underneath, and you need sometimes sometimes events over the years, you know, pull it out.” The speaker recalls Captain Dreyfus being accused of treason in France and Theodor Herzl watching, and suddenly, “kill Dreyfus, kill all the Jews.” The question is, where did “kill all the Jews” come from? The response is that, from one guy, antisemitism can surge. The speaker notes that today we have our Dreyfus again. We have the war. We have Jeffrey Epstein, who, the speaker says, “hated Israel,” and “had nothing there was nothing about him that was Jewish. Didn’t observe Judaism, didn’t practice Judaism.” The speaker adds as a side thought: “If you don’t mind me jumping in on this,” and then discusses a common claim: people say you can be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic, arguing that Judaism is just a religion, not a nationality, so they are not against the religion but against the nation, and it “shouldn’t be considered a nation.” The speaker then contends that Epstein is not a Jew under that standard because there is nothing about him that identifies with Israel. The only related claim is that “one of his emails says, I hate Israel. Right? There’s nothing about him that is religious at all.” However, when it comes to antisemitism, the speaker asserts, “he’s a Jew.” That is presented as the final point on Epstein’s case. The speaker mentions Epstein “tried to work with a former prime minister,” calling that his only connection. The former prime minister referred to is David Barak, described as not in politics for many, many years and having no influence in Israel, and “is the, kind of, the main political antagonist of Netanyahu.” The transcript notes that Epstein’s only connection was with David Barak, and that Barak is viewed as Netanyahu’s main political antagonist, despite Barak’s long absence from active politics. The passage ends with that acknowledgment of Epstein’s connection being limited to Barak.

One speaker recounts that he did not like Bibi Netanyahu, describing Netanyahu as a destructive force and saying he was appalled by what was happening in Gaza, and that Netanyahu was using the United States to prosecute wars for the benefit of his country, which he called shameful and embarrassing and bad for the United States, a view he resented. He also notes that he didn’t hate Netanyahu. After that speech, there was a sharp backlash against Charlie Kirk and, to a lesser extent, the speaker, with Kirk having about $100 million in donors and being heavily dependent on them because his project was nonprofit. They went after him and tormented him, while a small, very intense group offended by the speech tormented Charlie Kirk until the day he died.

"BB's holding it up like Charlie just in May said, hey, you know what? I just want to write a love letter to Israel." "I'm an American citizen. Yes. I want Israel to win. Yes. I'm a Christian." "But my moral character is now being put into question, Megan." "But no. I am a bad person if I do this." "Thousands of tweets and text messages." "the people that are attacking me are in a hyperparanoid state because they're at war, and war tends to make things black and white, and you're a hammer looking for a nail." "What would it be like if all of a sudden I'm starting to see a pattern of behavior similar to what my grandparents saw in nineteen thirties Germany online? How would I behave?" "Tucker Carlson was really the focus when it came to America Fest."

I've lost a lot of friends. I've particularly in the Israel question, I've never talked about Israel. I'm not a hater of Israel. Netanyahu is really hurting The United States and the world. It's completely out of control. Over twenty years, twenty five years. And, so I've always had that view, but I've kept it to myself because it's not worth it. But we've been pushed so hard and used so much by him that it's just terrible for the country that I I grew up in. And so I've said something and, you know, you do that and people you really, like, had dinner with and really liked are all of a sudden denouncing you as a Nazi or whatever. I never wanted that and it makes me sad now.

"If Bibi Netanyahu, if he does something I don't like and if I criticize it, am I, like, a bad Christian? Absolutely not." "What I find strange is that we're able to criticize the American government sometimes in the Christian world with more freedom than the Israeli government." "To be pro Israel means you believe in the nation of Israel Mhmm. Not necessarily the government of Israel." "When you when Joe Biden was president, you and I were what we loved America, but we detested our government." "If they challenge a foreign government, which is what happens so often. Right. Like you're a bad Christian if you have a question about a foreign government." "Right. That creates backlash that I don't think people understand."

If Bibi Netanyahu does something I don't like and I criticize it, am I a bad Christian? Absolutely not. What I find strange is that we can criticize the American government sometimes in the Christian world with more freedom than the Israeli government. To be pro Israel means you believe in the nation of Israel Mhmm. Not necessarily the government of Israel. When Joe Biden was president, you and I were what we loved America, but we detested our government. You never you never once said, hey. I'm I'm out on America. And what they don't want is they don't wanna be called bad Christians Mhmm. If they challenge a foreign government, which is what happens so often. That creates backlash that I don't think people understand.

If Bibi Netanyahu, if he does something I don't like and if I criticize it, am I, like, a bad Christian? Absolutely not. What I find strange is that we're able to criticize the American government sometimes in the Christian world with more freedom than the Israeli government. To be pro Israel means you believe in the nation of Israel Mhmm. Not necessarily the government of Israel. When you when Joe Biden was president, you and I were what we loved America, but we detested our government. And those two those two things beautifully coexisted. And what they don't want is they don't wanna be called bad Christians Mhmm. If they challenge a foreign government, which is what happens so often. Right. Like you're a bad Christian if you have a question about a foreign government. Right. That creates backlash that I don't think people understand.

Speaker 0 discusses the nature of the allegations surrounding Epstein and the broader “pedo” discourse. They begin by asking whether the situation is essentially pedophilia, noting a reluctance to voice this directly but concluding that they feel compelled to say it. They state: “This whole pedo thing, it's like, isn't it really pedophilia? I don't wanna be the one that has to say it, but I guess I'm being forced to say it.” They then attempt to distinguish between what some describe as trafficking and what they consider the case to be, saying: “It's not really pedophilia, okay? They weren't trafficking five year olds, it was like they were technically not legal. Big difference in my opinion.” They acknowledge this as a controversial perspective and proceed to articulate a position: “I know that's a controversial take, but that's not really the issue there, Okay? The issue is not that they were barely legal teens, which is what it is. It's horrendous, it's awful, it's pedophilia.” The speaker then shifts the topic away from the legality of the ages to a related, more conspiratorial claim, emphasizing that the core issue, in their view, lies in an alleged association between Epstein and a broader espionage context. They insist: “Okay, relax. No, the issue is that Epstein is a Jewish spy probably working with Israel.” They frame Epstein as being connected to Israeli intelligence, presenting this as the central dilemma rather than the specifics of the sexual exploitation allegations. Throughout, Speaker 0 presents a sequence of framed assertions: first, a provocative reframing of the ethical category involved (from illegal but not strictly illegal acts to pedophilia), then a qualitative judgment about the severity and nature of the acts themselves, and finally a shift to a geopolitical and intelligence-related conspiracy claim about Epstein’s possible affiliation with Jewish identity and Israeli intelligence. The speaker explicitly acknowledges the controversial nature of their viewpoint but maintains that the primary concern is not the legal characterization of the victims’ ages but the asserted espionage connection. No further context, evidence, or qualifiers are provided in the excerpt, and the speaker does not offer evidence supporting the espionage claim within this transcript. The emphasis remains on contrasting opinions about how to categorize the behavior, followed by a bold assertion regarding Epstein’s alleged role as a Jewish spy associated with Israel.

"If Bibi Netanyahu, if he does something I don't like and if I criticize it, am I, like, a bad Christian? Absolutely not." "What I find strange is that we're able to criticize the American government sometimes in the Christian world with more freedom than the Israeli government." "To be pro Israel means you believe in the nation of Israel Mhmm. Not necessarily the government of Israel." "When you when Joe Biden was president, you and I were what we loved America, but we detested our government. And those two those two things beautifully coexisted." "Exactly. And what they don't want is they don't wanna be called bad Christians Mhmm." "If they challenge a foreign government, which is what happens so often. Right. Like you're a bad Christian if you have a question about a foreign government." "Right. That creates backlash that I don't think people understand."

The speaker says a figure has annoyed the Jewish community over the last few months with criticisms of Israel. He cites a Jerusalem Post piece about backlash after Tucker Carlson spoke at SAS, where people were calling him an anti Semite. "I know Charlie and here he's little do they know half the time he's on college campuses, all he's doing is Hasbara and defending Israel. And he doesn't even wanna be. He doesn't even know the issues that well, but he's forced to." "But he dutifully with a smile on his face, defends Israel left and right." We saw him in England, at the debate, passionately defending Israel. And that's not even what he wants to be doing. Now he's getting criticized as an anti Semite. So I wrote that piece in the Jerusalem Post basically saying, listen, everybody. Stop with the purity tests for every single view that he has to line up with, I don't know, B. B. Cabinet decisions. "Relax. Okay? This is our greatest ally. Yes, he has questions. Yes, he's influenced by the other side as well." "Good. I'm talking to him."

Speaker 0: "We're just gonna try to we're we're gonna just stamp out everything type type of practice, but it goes to the point where if, for example, if I I have less ability sometimes online to criticize the Israeli government about backlash than actual Israelis do. And that's really, really weird, isn't it, Megan?" Speaker 1: "That's not right. Wrong headed." He says he faced blowback after saying, "Mossad, possibilities with Epstein," a comment he stands by, and that he "reported what Alan Dershowitz has said as his lawyer." He writes, "He says, I think he would have told me. He didn't say he had any of those connections. I hear all that. That doesn't mean it's not true." "I think all these things should be explored." "It's one of the many things that should be explored around Epstein." He finishes, "But saying that and also saying he might be a US asset, etcetera, doesn't make you antisemitic."

Republicans are reminded that not all Jewish people support Israel, and it is important not to express hatred towards all Jews. The speaker discusses the ties between Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein, and Israel, highlighting connections to Mossad and various individuals. They mention the influence of Israel on discussions about Epstein and claim that Israel controls the platforms where Epstein is discussed. The speaker also brings up the financial ties between Israel and US politicians, including the president and the Clintons. They criticize the Israeli offensive against Palestine and suggest that Israel is responsible for a large human trafficking ring. The speaker questions the support for Israel and argues that calling out a genocide is not anti-Semitic. They mention the cognitive dissonance on the internet and briefly mention TikTok's commitment to freedom of speech.

Speaker 0 expresses that "The behavior by a lot, both privately and publicly, are pushing people like you and me away" and that he is accused of being an anti-Semite despite "I honor the Shabbat, literally the Jewish Sabbath." He notes online backlash, "thousands of tweets and text messages," and that his "moral character is now being put into question" for supporting Israel. Speaker 1 agrees the treatment is unfair, saying "Dave Smith isn't allowed to criticize Israel" and that "the Israeli side was overrepresented." They discuss Americans first, resisting accusations, and the difficulty of criticizing the Israeli government online. They reference Epstein's controversial topic and say they hosted a debate giving "equal time to Josh Hammer, equal time to a pro Israel advocate." They observe a "hyperparanoid state" online and wonder if patterns resemble "nineteen thirties Germany."

Jeffrey Epstein's wealth and connections raise questions about who he was working for, possibly foreign intelligence services. It's acceptable to ask if he worked for a foreign government, such as Israel, without it being considered hateful or anti-Semitic. Criticizing a government's actions is a right of citizenship, not an act of disloyalty. Many in Washington believe Epstein had connections to Mossad and ran a blackmail operation for a foreign government. The speaker questions why this can't be openly discussed. The speaker believes avoiding the topic creates resentment and hate. The Israeli government should be asked directly if they were involved, and their refusal to answer is unacceptable. As long as the U.S. provides financial aid, citizens have a right to know if crimes were committed on U.S. soil.

"We're just gonna try to we're we're gonna just stamp out everything type type of practice, but it goes to the point where if, for example, if I I have less ability sometimes online to criticize the Israeli government about backlash than actual Israelis do. And that's really, really weird, isn't it, Megan?" "That's not right. Wrong headed." "I So got some blowback after saying Mossad possibilities with Epstein, a comment behind which I stand." "I've, of course, reported what Alan Dershowitz has said as his lawyer." "He says, I think he would have told me." "He didn't say he had any of those connections." "I hear all that. That doesn't mean it's not true." "It's one of the many things that should be explored around Epstein." "But saying that and also saying he might be a US asset, etcetera, doesn't make you antisemitic."

Megan and Charlie Kirk, both vocal defenders of Israel, say the pro-Israel camp overreacts to criticism by labeling dissenters as anti Semitic, which they believe undermines credibility: "the behavior by a lot, both privately and publicly, are pushing people like you and me away." They recount personal harassment, including "you must be anti Semitic" when raising Epstein/Mossad discussions, and say "What the hell? That's such bullshit." They defend their American-first stance: "We are Americans first, period. End of story," and insist they want Israel to win, even as they note the debate harms Israel's standing. Megan warns that "Israel has made itself the villain of the world" and cites Trump's remark "time to wrap it up." They cite shifting U.S. public opinion: GOP 76% to 71%; Dems 36% to 8%; independents 47% to 25%. They discuss broadcasts, focus groups, and backlash on social media.

Speaker 0 raises a question about accountability for Israel and mentions Jeffrey Epstein’s dealings with Mossad. Speaker 1 asks, without specifics, whether there are forces that tried to influence him to stop what he’s doing now. Speaker 0 responds that they wouldn’t vote for foreign aid and foreign war funding, and they were upset because he said no. He states: “I’m not voting to fund the Ukraine war ever,” and “Israel’s doing just fine. We don’t need to give them a penny, not a single penny, nor do we need to give it to any other country, but they get mad at me for that.”

"If Bibi Netanyahu, if he does something I don't like and if I criticize it, am I, like, a bad Christian? Absolutely not." "What I find strange is that we're able to criticize the American government sometimes in the Christian world with more freedom than the Israeli government." "To be pro Israel means you believe in the nation of Israel Mhmm. Not necessarily the government of Israel." "When you when Joe Biden was president, you and I were what we loved America, but we detested our government." "And those two things beautifully coexisted." "If they challenge a foreign government, which is what happens so often." "Right. Like you're a bad Christian if you have a question about a foreign government." "Right. That creates backlash that I don't think people understand."

The speaker discusses various connections between Jeffrey Epstein, Israel, and influential individuals. They mention Epstein's ties to Mossad, Ghislaine Maxwell's connections to Israel, and the involvement of Jewish individuals in Epstein's circle. The speaker emphasizes that not all Jewish people support Israel's actions and condemns any hatred towards all Jews. They also mention the influence of Israel on discussions about Epstein and the financial support received by US politicians from Israel. The speaker raises questions about the motivations behind the recent escalation of violence between Israel and Palestine and criticizes the support for Israel despite allegations of human trafficking and the killing of innocent civilians. They urge people to think critically and not blindly follow their party's beliefs.

Speaker 0 addresses the topic of the Epstein situation, expressing a controversial viewpoint about labeling the matter. They begin by saying, "This whole pedo thing, it's like, isn't it really pedophilia? I don't wanna be the one that has to say it, but I guess I'm being forced to say it." They then attempt to clarify their stance by asserting, "It's not really pedophilia, okay? They weren't trafficking five year olds, it was like they were technically not legal. Big difference in my opinion." The speaker acknowledges that this interpretation is controversial, adding, "I know that's a controversial take, but that's not really the issue there, Okay, the issue is not that they were barely legal teens, which is what it is." They continue to differentiate between the legality and the ethical horror, insisting, "It's horrendous, it's awful, it's pedophilia, okay." However, despite labeling it pedophilia, they pivot to a different focal point, stating, "No, the issue is that Epstein is a Jewish spy probably working with Israel." The speaker characterizes Epstein as being "probably working with Israel" and frames this as the underlying dilemma. They conclude by reiterating their position, "He's working with Israeli intelligence," emphasizing that this supposed affiliation constitutes the core of the dilemma discussed.

Republicans who support Israel are being reminded that Jeffrey Epstein, who had ties to Mossad, was an Israeli spy. Epstein had connections to various individuals with ties to Israel, such as Ghislaine Maxwell, Leslie Wexner, and Ace Greenberg. However, it is important to note that not all Jewish people are Zionists or support Israel's actions. The speaker emphasizes that expressing hatred towards all Jews is unjustified. The speaker also suggests that the reason Epstein is not openly discussed is due to Israel's control over the platforms where discussions take place, rather than the influence of billionaires on his list. The speaker further mentions the financial ties between Israel and US politicians, including the president and the Clintons. The recent escalation of violence between Israel and Palestine is highlighted, with the speaker questioning the narrative that Hamas initiated the conflict. The speaker accuses Israel of being responsible for a large human trafficking ring and using it to influence politicians. The speaker concludes by urging Republicans to consider what they are supporting and questioning the morality of supporting a ring of pedophilia and the killing of innocent people in the name of a Jewish homeland.

The speaker condemns Ian Carroll for making videos that claim Israel is behind conspiracies about Red Lobster, Applebee's, and Burger King, and for a live stream asking, “Where are you Nick? … Why are you with them?” He asks where the evidence is and notes the tendency to attribute almost every event to Israel, stating, “the heuristic seems to be Israel is behind literally everything,” past and future, which he calls ridiculous. He points to a September 7 tweet where Carroll said Charlie Kirk is “working for the Jews that killed Jesus,” and contrasts it with Carroll’s certainty on September 11 that Israel killed him to silence him, questioning what changed in those four days and suggesting Carroll may have ESP or telepathy. He accuses Carroll of grifting, intellectual laziness, and dishonesty, and refuses to be pulled into blaming Israel for killing the number one Israel defender in America. The speaker asserts personal history and credibility, saying, “I’ve been over here. I was at Charlottesville” in 2017, and that in 2019 he led the Gruyper war against Charlie Kirk, labeling Kirk as an “Israel shill.” He claims that from Turning Point’s founding in 2012 to today, the organization has been “owned by Israel and served Israel.” He recounts a June text in which Charlie Kirk told Dinesh D’Souza, “Nick Fuentes is vermin,” and notes the ongoing fight against him for six years, including Kirk’s August statement calling him “anti Semitic garbage” and his refusal to debate. The speaker describes Charlie Kirk’s inner circle and media connections: Kirk’s right-hand man Andrew Colvin comes from Salem Media, a Christian Zionist outlet aligned with Israel, with Melissa Strait having connections to Salem and Prager University and IDF unit 12082. He notes Colvin led a “struggle session about Israel” after a Turning Point SAS conference in July. He claims that when Israel bombed Qatar in contravention of Trump’s foreign policy, Kirk invited Ben Shapiro to present Israel’s position, while Kirk acted as moderator, and on the day Kirk “was shot,” he prepared to defend Israel with his rabbi at Provo as he drafted a book on the Jewish Sabbath. The speaker emphasizes that the person accused of fighting Israel was “the guy that was murdered,” and expresses pity for those who would believe that. He asserts, “I’m right here where I’ve always been, following the facts, following the money, looking at the information,” claiming to be light years ahead of Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson, and rejecting the idea that their ideology is about Netanyahu or Israel’s foreign policy, concluding, “No, sorry. Absolutely not. That’s totally ridiculous.”

Speaker 0 rails against dissent: “Like, if you disagree with me, fine. If you think Israel killed Charlie Kirk and then vanished beneath the trap door and flew to Tuba City on a private jet, fine.” He adds, “But then people start to say, you disagree with me? You're you got the memo.” He asserts, “every event that happens in America or the world is the doing of Israel,” and says if you disagree, “you got the call[.]” He notes, “you’re out,” and, “They will. And they will.” He proclaims, “I can’t wait for the apology forms” and, “cannot wait to humiliate you more, because more than anything, what I love is humiliate people who are wrong. I live for it actually.” He concludes, “So please, please, I can’t wait to never speak to those people again.”

Jeffrey Epstein was working on behalf of Intel Services, likely not American, and it's valid to question on whose behalf he operated. How did he go from a math teacher to owning multiple airplanes, a private island, and a large Manhattan house without a college degree? Epstein had direct connections to a foreign government, and while people avoid naming Israel, there's nothing wrong, hateful, antisemitic, or anti-Israel about asking if he worked for Mossad, running a blackmail operation. Everyone in Washington D.C. suspects this, but feels unable to voice it. The speaker believes open discussion is better than suppressed resentment and hate. The question of whether this happened has been posed to the Israeli government, who declined to answer. The speaker argues that as long as the U.S. sends Israel money, the U.S. has a right to know if Israel committed crimes on U.S. soil.