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The speaker recalls that Charlie once said, "guns save lives after school shooting" and was willing to debate and downplay the death of George Floyd in the hands of Minneapolis police, "you called him a scumbag." They note that Charlie also "downplay slavery and what black people have gone through in this country, by saying Juneteenth should never exist." The speaker counters that many claim he only wanted a civil debate, a complete rewriting of history. "Yeah, there is nothing more effed up than to completely pretend that, you know, his words and actions have not been recorded and in existence for the last decade or so."

The American Jewish Committee called in a statement Charlie Kirk an anti Semite and 'dangerous.' 'Charlie Kirk, an anti Semite.' He was not an anti Semite; he was the opposite, and he was not dangerous. He was a great lover of people and a purveyor of peace. He was the opposite, and he was very stung by that. Charlie was deeply offended by that and expressed some feelings on Megyn Kelly show and in other places, but that did not let up. He called me and then came to see me at my house about this topic. And I said to him, every single time, 'look, I've got my own way to communicate my views. This is actually not the most important issue to me.' There are lots of things I can talk about; I don't need to come to Turning Point. I can take a year off no problem.

Charlie may have been marked since he was a child. We've discussed these gate programs that they have in school. And I just think on the basis of what he told me that when he was really young, they wanted to drug him, but his mother said no, and he was really grateful for that. And instead, they decided that they could send him to this X Men school. That's the best way I can describe it. I would certainly, by the way, for you Internet sleuths, I'd like to find out which school Charlie had to attend. So he was pulled out of regular school he was attending, and he had to go to some special school for the gifted like he was next man.

The scene centers on a group of characters wrestling with sobriety, addiction, and the pressures of family and recovery. Speaker 0 opens with a stark line about confronting a death sentence sober, suggesting that sobriety can stretch time into “an eternity.” The conversation shifts to gratitude and endurance: Speaker 1 asks Charlie to thank God for “Six months of sobriety,” prompting silence from Charlie about what he wants to say. A tension-filled moment follows as Speaker 0 teases a lingering smell of weed, while Speaker 2 notes Charlie’s appearance, saying “You look like you came from a funeral.” The group moves to practical matters, with Speaker 2 offering space to use the bathroom and then referencing “my mother's oxies,” hinting at the pervasive presence of drugs in their environment. Charlie asserts his resistance to being labeled a drug addict, telling Speaker 0, “Dad, I'm not gonna listen to you tell me what a drug addict I am,” and contrasts his loyalty to continuity in governance with his family’s expectations, asking if his father will learn about Charlie’s situation when elected and pointing out that he’d be in Sacramento, governing. A moral choice emerges: “You can either head back to treatment or live on the streets. It's your choice. Charlie.” The dynamic teases loyalty and blame, with Charlie asked whether his dad would know about the situation if he remains involved with the governor’s race, leading to the insinuation that familial and political pressures collide. The dialogue acknowledges that “You're taking their side? Right. You're right. Go shoot up. Prove everyone right.” The group contemplates thirty days as a decisive period. The discussion broadens into the realities of outpatient treatment, emphasizing freedom paired with responsibility, and the necessity of ongoing group participation. The tone suggests hope and failure, with remarks such as, “We think he'll stay. He has no choice.” The theme of relationships—friendship in sobriety versus romance—emerges, and Speaker 0 notes the temptation to drink: “You know what would be so great right now? Drink.” The group grapples with the disease’s hold and the consequences of denial, as Speaker 0 warns, “If you continue to refuse to accept the disease that put you here, you will continue to be a repeat offender,” while another voice counters with, “Don't you mean repeat customer?” The tension culminates in a grim sense of confinement versus danger: “Rehab or jail, you know, quite a wide selection there. One of us had to keep him safe.” The room’s atmosphere suggests a claustrophobic, prison-like environment, contrasted with the possibility of escape. Speaker 0 reflects on the core motive behind addiction, “It's never about the drugs. All I ever wanted was a way to kill the noise.” The conversation closes with a bleak, dark humor about stigma and status: “Who is this kid with the silver spoon in his mouth and why does he keep cooking heroin in it? Total waste of a good utensil.”

Asked about the last meeting with Charlie, it wasn't 'about, like, this is what you should say,' but 'talking through the issues' with Charlie asking questions and 'then saying, Okay, I think I'm going to approach this issue this way and this is going to be my position on it.' They discussed 'USA to Israel,' and 'I'm opposed to USA to Israel. I want it to be drawn down,' noting Netanyahu's stance. They talked through 'why is Israel actually an American interest?' 'Why is it in America's interest to support Israel?' Charlie was a listener, and 'the open marketplace of ideas' was a core fundamental. He believed in that, which is why he annoyed people by platforming Tucker Carlson and others, because for Charlie, 'the idea that you're supposed to silence any opinion was anathema.' 'Do I think he went too far with it? Well, yes.'

Charlie Kirk was brought to the golf course to meet me about a month ago, in town to set up this turning point thing. It was around an 08:45AM start, and they brought him out as I prepared to go to the range and loosen up. I spoke with him for about a half hour; he told me how he grew up in a home where my program was on all the time. He was effusively complimentary to me, which I understood, and told me he's wise. His family is wise. He chuckled. He laughed. This is the kind of guy that you can see really becoming big in politics as he gets older. He has the carriage, the personality, the charisma. I remember when Bill Clinton became president; there were stories about him, and there were stories that people were saying the same things about Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 0 says Charlie bridged foreign policy gaps due to "genuine affection for Israel," and he privately expressed that he "love Israel." He argued, "we should not have another forever war, regime change war against Iran," and that view made him approachable because "this person doesn't hate me. It doesn't need to get existential. It's not about disliking me or some weird bigotry." He urged continuing in "the spirit that he operated in, which is one of love for other people, including people we disagree with." Speaker 1 notes Charlie was "a hardliner on immigration" who "wanted us to control our borders as much as possible" and who "wanted us to ramp up the deportations." He recalls Charlie asking, "why aren't the deportations higher? Why aren't you doing more?" He adds, "I'm a free citizen. I love you guys. I supported you guys, and I'm going to use my platform to try to accomplish as much good as I possibly can." He concludes, "I think that made him such an effective operator."

Speaker 0 notes they’ve faced attacks followed by calls to unite, asking, 'Is it is it still time to come together, Jack? Are are these people capable of coming together with?' Speaker 1 recounts a friend who tried to talk to them and was killed 'in cold blood.' Charlie tried sitting down and having conversations, and many people came; thousands came. But there is 'a social cancer, a cancerous ideology that is spread throughout this country.' It's gone mainstream, acting as if 'they are completely dissociated with humanity.' Shunning family members, canceling, and censorship are linked, and it 'ended with my friend shot on campus.' Speaker 0: 'We should have put our foot down a long time ago,' perhaps when they glorified Luigi for sticking a bullet in the back of the guy's head at 6AM. 'Thanks for coming on, and thanks for carrying Charlie's torch for all of us.'

Charlie was trying to navigate this to keep the Nick Fuentes, neo Nazi, groyper stuff at bay while meeting Gen Z on their terms and guiding them toward a better place without the outmoded rhetoric and talking points of the 1970s, 1980s boomers. He aimed to "hold the line, to keep the Fuentes, Ruiper stuff decidedly on the fringe, very much out of the tent, at the movement." Charlie saw himself as a coalition leader of really MAGA, of the American right there, and sought a middle-ground foreign policy between Ron Paul isolationism and George W. Bush neoconservatism. Ali is probably why he gravitated towards my book and the Trump doctrine—conservative realist nationalist middle ground between the two poles. Think that's kind of why Charlie and I kind of saw eye to eye to eye analysis towards the end of his life. I think Tucker Carlson is a malicious anti Semite. I think he is the most dangerous anti Semite in the history of The United States.

"It doesn't feel real." "I was not even a fan, not a friend, and actually an adversary, a foe." "We had a lot of differences, ideologically, politically, and we fought viciously." "Charlie Kirk never had a kind word to say about me in his life." "Now that he has died, I'll say some kind words about him." "In spite of that, it is undeniable that he was a towering figure in American conservatism." "He would take on almost any challengers." "And he did it all before the age of 31." "And ultimately that is why he was killed." "He was clearly a loving father, a loving husband." "He was beloved by millions of people." "God bless him." "I pray for the repose of his soul, for his family, for him."

Charlie Kirk's death is a moment for America. It's also a turning point for you and me, a call to action. Charlie was Turning Point USA. He was the least hypocritical man I've ever known and he practiced what he preached. He was a Buckley-Limbaugh figure. Kierkegaard said, 'the most painful state of being is remembering the future, particularly the one that you'll never have.' I met him in a Chicago diner in 2012; he spoke about building a movement of young people. At the Turning Point Faith Conference, he summoned me on stage to pray for me, 'as if it depended on God.' He helped me make payroll. Charlie answered, 'courage from my faith.' He did not point left or right but up. The price for his message was his life. Without accountability, we live under the illusion of freedom. A million more Charlie Kirks are gonna be born.

I met Charlie for the first time in July 2001. I went on his podcast, and I think we approached each other with a lot of trepidation at that time. But by the end of the podcast, we were soulmates. We were spiritual brothers, and we were we were friends. And over the next couple of years, our friendship blossomed. He ended up being the primary architect of my unification with president Trump, which I which I did my endorsement at his rally at the Turning Point rally in in Scottsdale. And he was the one who put the sparklers on the stage when I when I show that. He made a big show of it, but

Charlie Kirk and I were not friends; the last week of his life we were beefing hard. But the day before he died, he sent me a personal message calling for personal dialogue, wanting me to come on the show. He said, 'We could be gentlemen together.' He said, 'we could deal with our disagreements agreeably.' In the past week and a half, watching talk of civil wars and censorship surrounding his death, I thought it was important to tell people: 'Don't put that on Charlie Kirk' because the last day of his life, he was reaching out to have not more censorship, more conversation, more dialogue with somebody who honestly was one of his adversaries, me. And I just wanna share that with the world. And I hope that maybe it might help somebody on both sides deal with issues more like he did.

Speaker recounts meeting with Charlie: it wasn’t about 'this is what you should say,' but 'talking through the issues' as Charlie asked questions and began forming positions. He would 'approach this issue this way' and decide his stance on topics like 'USA to Israel,' which speaker opposed, wanting it drawn down; Netanyahu has said he wants it drawn down. Charlie would articulate his position more quickly than the speaker. They discussed why is Israel actually an American America's interest to support Israel and explored approaches to justify it, not just those favored by Israelis or the Israeli government, but ways to help Charlie feel comfortable with a position. Charlie is a 'listener' who believes in the 'open marketplace of ideas'—his existential core—and he platformed Tucker Carlson; silencing any opinion was 'anathema' to him because of truth seeking. 'For all of us, our best traits we often have to a fault.'

I don't think we should have another forever war, regime change war against Iran. Don't do that. That turns everybody off. You don't help your own cause by doing that, and it's also literally untrue. The spirit that he operated in, which is one of love for other people, including people we disagree with, and don't make it, you know, as small bore as that. Charlie was a hardliner on immigration. He wanted us to control our borders as much as possible. He wanted us to ramp up the deportations. Why aren't the deportations higher? Why aren't you doing more? I'm a free citizen. I love you guys. I supported you guys, and I'm going to use my platform to try to accomplish as much good as I possibly can. I think that made him such an effective operator. And I would talk to Charlie.

What what I do know for sure is that, you know, Charlie was someone who once said, you know, guns save lives after school shooting. He was willing to debate and downplay the death of George Floyd in the hands of Minneapolis police. 'you called him a scumbag. Right.' There are a lot of people out there talking about him just wanting to have a civil debate, a complete rewriting of history. There is nothing more effed up than to completely pretend that, you know, his words and actions have not been recorded and in existence for the last decade or so. And there are people downplaying slavery and what black people have gone through in this country, by saying Juneteenth should never exist.

Over the past year and a half I became closer to Charlie Kirk, joining a group chat he called his 'brain trust.' We discussed Israel, Jewish–Christian relations, antisemitism. He was an adamant opponent of antisemitism. Campus talks exposed him to questions, including about the Talmud, and he provided 'very good answers'—'better answers than probably 98% of Jews probably could offer there.' We strategized to turn back the tide against rising antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiment. Charlie said roughly half, 50% of the questions that he got asked were all on Israel, Jews. He organized a Zoom call the night before Utah Valley University event, the first stop of a tour, with me, Pesach Willicki, producers, and one Christian pastor. The fact that he was seeking our counsel... calls into question this narrative that he was getting ready to renounce his lifelong support for the Jewish people, for the state of Israel.

"The American Jewish Committee called in a statement Charlie Kirk an anti Semite and quote dangerous. 'Charlie Kirk, an anti Semite.' 'Yeah. He was not an anti Semite. He was the opposite, and he was not dangerous.' He was 'a great lover of people and a purveyor of peace,' 'the opposite,' and he was 'very stung by that.' 'Charlie was deeply offended by that' and expressed some of those feelings on Megyn Kelly show and in other places, but that did not let up. The story is told because he called me and then came to see me at my house about this topic. And I said to him every single time, 'look, I've got my own way to communicate my views.' This is actually not the most important issue to me. There are lots of things I can talk about. I don't need to come to Turning Point. I can take a year off no problem. I hated seeing how much he was suffering, the hassle he was getting from people, and I was attacked too. By the way, it was a huge effort. I wasn't fully aware of it actually because I don't go online."

He was dependent on donors, and a small, intense group tormented Charlie Kirk until the day he died. Two days before his death, he lost a $2,000,000 donation after publicly pledging to bring me to the next Turning Point conference in December. A flyer announced I would speak, and he texted he was taking heat. The American Jewish Committee called in a statement Charlie Kirk an antisemite and, quote, dangerous. Charlie Kirk, an antisemite. Yeah. He was not an antisemite. He was the opposite, and he was not dangerous. He was a great lover of people and a purveyor of peace. He was deeply offended by that and expressed some feelings on Megyn Kelly show and elsewhere. Seth Dillon of Babylon Bee pressured Charlie Kirk to pull me off stage because BB didn't like what I said, shocking that someone whose persona is about free speech.

Speaker 1 says he met Charlie when he was a teenager, connected to Foster Freeze, “the wonderful man from Wilmington, Delaware… the only investor I've ever had in anything.” Foster told him Charlie “he's not going to college,” which the speaker, opposed to college, found initially skeptical yet saw him as smart. After a backstage Q&A turned into an intense exchange—“I was gonna give a speech and we have a debate”—they began spending time together; Charlie “never used any drugs in his whole life” and was libertarian on the subject. Their conversations on economics, foreign policy, and marijuana led to mutual re-evaluations; “I was totally wrong about everything” and “the things you thought were gonna work didn't.” Charlie's honesty is celebrated: “Only belief in God allows that” and “admitting the truth about yourself in public is the most edifying and important thing you can ever do.”

Charlie may have been marked since he was a child. We've discussed these gate programs that they have in school. And I just think on the basis of what he told me that when he was really young, they wanted to drug him, but his mother said no, and he was really grateful for that. And instead, they decided that they could send him to this X Men school. That's the best way I can describe it. I would certainly by the way, for you Internet sleuths, I'd like to find out which school Charlie had to attend. So he was pulled out of regular school he was attending, and he had to go to some special school for the gifted like he was next man.

Shortly after that speech, there was a very intense attack on Charlie. He had $100,000,000 worth of donors and was dependent on them, since it's a nonprofit and he worked on projects beyond yapping on the Internet. A small, intense group tormented Charlie Kirk until the day he died, though many were supportive. Two days before he died, he lost a $2,000,000 donation because he had publicly pledged to bring me to the next Turning Point Conference in December. He told me over the past couple of months, he was losing a lot of donations over that pledge. They put out a flyer basically saying that I was gonna be at this event giving a speech, and he would text me, 'man, I'm really taking a lot of heat for this, and people are really mad.'

We had our disagreements. Where we did agree is that he would go to these college campuses and proclaim the name of Jesus Christ. And ultimately, that is why he was killed. The gunmen that killed him, they hated him because of his defense of Christian morality. Charlie Kirk cannot call himself a Christian anymore. Sorry, you forfeited that. I do not wanna hear and you cannot allow Charlie Kirk to go to one more public event, one more question and answer, one more ask me anything without being protested, without being shouted down, without being interrogated about this. This guy goes around from campus to campus in the most artificial and phony and fake way talking about, oh, God, God made me very blessed that I control $500,000,000. And then you go around from campus to campus making excuses for a famine?

The term "controlled opposition" exists for a reason. Meeting people in real life gives you a better sense of who they are, though it's not foolproof. Take Alex Jones, for example. People accuse him of being controlled, but I know his staff, and I've known him for years. Is he really faking his entire life? I've been on his show and seen his prep work; it's the same even when no one's watching. I was really woken up by his video on the World Trade Organization protests in Seattle. He showed masked men in military uniforms creating chaos, which allowed the police to move in. These people then negotiated with the police and were released, just like Patriot Front. Sometimes you just have to relax a little bit and activate your animal instinct while driving your cerebral cortex with emotion, like Emperor Palpatine.