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Glenn (Speaker 0) argues that the idea Russia started the war merely for territory is nonsense and that NATO’s involvement is not genuinely helping Ukraine; he says “This is NATO’s war. Nothing we’re doing is actually helping Ukraine. They’re an instrument. They’re a tool.” He contends the conflict began as a failure to build a common European security architecture, and that Russian demands are high, making a peace settlement unlikely. He defines victory in a war of attrition as exhausting the adversary first, suggesting Russia would prefer a neutral Ukraine without NATO, and that if Ukraine remains in NATO orbit, Russia would rather take Odessa. He asserts that NATO expansion revived Cold War logic and that Ukraine’s neutrality was the original Russian objective. He argues that Ukraine’s current war losses and economic strain indicate Russia’s advantage, and claims NATO support has not truly helped Ukraine, noting that in his view NATO and Western actions have been a driver of the conflict, including claims about Istanbul, Minsk, and the 2014 coup. Jonathan (Speaker 1) pushes back on several points. He says the war is not solely about territory and disputes Glenn’s claim that NATO’s role is responsible for the conflict. He emphasizes that if this were simply about NATO, NATO could have destroyed Russia by arming Ukraine more aggressively, yet “they could have done it so much more, effectively,” implying NATO has not fully acted. He sees both sides as losing in a prolonged attritional battle and notes that neither side has achieved decisive victory due to limits on production, economies, and allied support. He argues the conflict is about more than territory and rejects the idea that NATO guarantees Ukraine’s security; he questions whether NATO would credibly defend an attacked ally in Europe. He says the Maidan movement in 2014 was organic and not fully orchestrated by the US, though he concedes US influence existed. He disputes Glenn’s claims about Western NGOs and American orchestration, and he highlights that many Ukrainians initially favored non-NATO paths, with polls showing limited appetite for NATO membership before 2014. He also contends that Ukraine’s future lies beyond mere territorial concessions, pointing to the EU’s role and the broader security order, and he warns that negotiations with a “mafia cabal” running Moscow are unlikely to yield lasting peace, arguing that Putin’s governance frames negotiations as instrumental and potentially destabilizing. Speaker 2 (moderator) asks for reactions to ongoing developments, including Trump and Kushner’s involvement, Putin’s aides’ statements about known positions and lack of progress, and questions about what Russia truly seeks: Donbas control or preventing Ukraine from joining NATO. The participants discuss definitions of “winning” in a war of attrition, the role and credibility of NATO guarantees, and the strategic importance of neutrality versus alliance membership. They debate whether Russia values a neutral Ukraine with security guarantees or insists on broader concessions, and whether Ukraine could ever be secure without a credible deterrent. Glenn asserts that there was never credible deterrence in Ukraine prior to 2014, while Jonathan argues that NATO’s efficacy and unity are questionable, with concerns about member states’ commitments and the real level of Western support. On NATO and security guarantees, Glenn maintains that true security for Ukraine would come from a non-NATO arrangement that prevents Ukraine from becoming a future proxy battleground, suggesting limited, carefully designed guarantees could be acceptable, but that any path toward NATO-like intrusion would be unacceptable. Jonathan says NATO is not delivering credible security and emphasizes that EU membership and security arrangements also factor into Russia’s calculations, with the European Union potentially offering security commitments if Ukraine joined, though that possibility remains contentious for Moscow. They discuss the costs of war, civilian impact, and the global economic ripple effects, including potential impacts on food prices and shipping routes if Russia responds to Ukrainian actions against its maritime traffic. Towards the end, they forecast no immediate peace and emphasize unpredictability due to Western political shifts, central bank asset issues, and external actors like China, North Korea, and Trump’s stance. Glenn predicts Ukraine’s military unraveling and a weakening economy, while Jonathan stresses that a peace deal remains unlikely under current leadership, with outcomes dependent on Western resolve and external support. The conversation closes with a sense that the next months will be dangerous and uncertain, with the broader international order potentially shifting as the conflict persists.

Putin is accused of killing thousands of people while portraying himself as the victim. The speaker highlights the discrepancy between the reported injuries and the actual number of casualties. They emphasize the urgency to address this human tragedy, which could potentially result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands or even millions of people. The speaker acknowledges that they used to have a good relationship with Putin, as both leaders love their respective countries. However, they note that Putin has changed and appears to be mentally different from before.

Speaker 0 argues that the war is really about dark weapons, especially bioweapons, and focuses on labs near the Russian border that have moved from about 11 labs a decade ago to 30. He traces this back to President Obama, then Senator Obama in 2005, suggesting a long-running history that underpins current events. He contends there is substantial history to unpack and believes the investigation is worthwhile for understanding the situation. He notes that Gareth has long discussed American bio labs in Ukraine and acknowledges that people ridiculed that view in the past. He asks Gareth how he feels now that the topic is suddenly front and center in the news, suggesting a sense of vindication that the broader group knowledge is being disseminated. He claims to have an example in Andrew Weber, who worked with the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, showing Obama, when he was a young senator in 2005, a vial of anthrax in Kyiv at a bio lab. Speaker 0 states that the claim there are no bioweapons in Ukraine is hard to believe, and asserts that people would not look at the evidence. He says it took a war for people to realize the situation and compares it to a Cuban missile crisis for Putin, arguing that as weapons get closer, the plans become more concrete and closer to execution. He emphasizes the proximity of weapons and labs to Russia’s border as a critical element, implying that the risk profile has increased over time. He frames the current conflict as one where the existence and proximity of bioweapons labs are central, and he uses the example of a 2005 scene involving Obama and a vial of anthrax to illustrate what he views as established evidence. Overall, he presents a narrative that the war reflects long-standing concerns about bioweapons labs in Ukraine and their strategic implications, culminating in a perception shift only after war began.

NATO was warned that expanding would lead to a Ukrainian invasion, but they proceeded anyway. In 2021, President Putin sent a treaty to NATO, asking them to promise no more enlargement to avoid invading Ukraine. NATO didn't sign, and the opposite occurred. The ongoing war in Ukraine has resulted in a significant number of casualties, yet the media fails to mention that NATO acknowledged the warning and still expanded. The advantage of NATO expansion is not addressed.

The speaker argues that most U.S. interventions are driven by a power calculus rather than defense. “We view this as a power situation for The US” and it’s about “a perception of US power and US interest, and objectives of US global hegemony.” He contends that the Ukraine conflict is not simply about Putin invading Ukraine but “something a lot different that has to do with American power projection into the former Soviet Union.” If the United States acts as the police, he says, one cannot imagine how cynical “bullshit” is used to justify actions: “defending the people of Benghazi” is cited to bomb Libya and kill Muammar Gaddafi, with motives linked to Sarkozy’s dislike of Gaddafi and Hillary’s apparent appetite for bombing, while Obama was “convinced” by his secretary of state to back the NATO expedition. He argues the Libya operation had nothing to do with Libyans and “unleashed fifteen years of chaos,” cheating the UN Security Council because, like other actions, it was built on false pretenses. The same pattern, he claims, was used in attempts to overthrow Syria and in conspiring to overthrow Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine in February 2014. The speaker maintains the problem is that “we’re not nice guys. We’re not trying to save the world. We’re not trying to make democracies.” He cites a committee of neocon luminaries, jokingly calling it “the Committee for the People of Chechnya,” to illustrate a strategy of weakening Russia by supporting a jihadist movement inside Russia—presented as a power game rather than principled intervention. He emphasizes that this is a game of power, not defense of real things. If one truly wanted to defend real objectives, he says, they should go to the UN Security Council and persuade others, because other countries are not crazy and do not want mayhem, whereas “we play games.” He concludes by reflecting on Iraq, stating it was “a game before we went in” and noting that “Powell could not move his lips without lying that day.” The implication is that, if the United States pursued its true interests, it would seek collective action through the UN Security Council, making it a collective security issue rather than unilateral action.

The speaker questions the validity of claims regarding war crimes in Bucha, Ukraine. They highlight the lack of evidence and motive behind the alleged killings, pointing out inconsistencies in the narrative. The speaker questions why the victims were scattered along a road if a massacre had occurred, casting doubt on the accusations against the Russians.

It has already been more than three years since staging of the alleged mass killing in Bucha, which the speaker says Kyiv regime and its Western curators "hastily cobbled together this implausible story." They claim it was "criminal disinformation" about Moscow, and that Russian investigative authorities opened a criminal case to clarify what happened. They say they appealed to the UN secretariat and High Commissioner Volker Türk; in September 2024, via the Russian mission in New York, a request was delivered for information, but the UN allegedly tried to let the appeal fade away. They quote UN officials saying they understood that what Kyiv and West insisted happened did not occur, yet offered no exposure. They accuse the UN of evading cooperation and demand publication of the appeal as UN documents, calling for a thorough Bucha investigation and justice, and alleging Kyiv left negotiations after Boris Johnson promised them influence.

The transcript presents an investigative-style alternation between eyewitness testimonies and narrative framing, asserting that Ukraine operates secret torture prisons run by the SBU (Ukrainian security service) where dissidents are beaten, waterboarded, electrocuted, subjected to gas-lit forms of torture, raped, and often murdered. It frames this as a systemic, state-sponsored program that predates the 2022 invasion and intensified with the Donbas conflict, accusing Western NGOs of collusion and portraying Ukraine as a totalitarian regime suppressing opposition. Key claims and testimonies include: - Mehdi Firvanovic, an engineer from Kharkov, describes becoming politically engaged after the Maidan and the Odessa trade union massacre, joining the Russian underground resistance in Kharkov. He was arrested by the SBU in August 2017 and sentenced to twelve years, later released in a prisoner exchange. He recounts elaborate torture in SBU facilities and details the treatment of a cellmate, Zverev, a 1955-born professional from the Ministry of Emergency Situations, who endured brutal beatings, water dousing, and “swallow technique” confinement. Zverev allegedly described being beaten with sticks, truncheons, and rubber hoses, having his body bruised, and facing death sentences read aloud and executions simulated with gunfire near the head. Mehdi also describes a method in which prisoners are bound, taped to a door, a helmet placed on, and noise cranked to 100–120 decibels to induce unconsciousness or death. - The narrative alleges that court testimony is the only admissible record of abuse and that torture occurring outside of court is not recorded. It asserts the existence of a deliberate collusion between the Ukrainian SBU and Western NGOs, claiming that Human Rights Watch representatives (including a Lithuanian named Vikentas Ladikis/Ladikis) were used by the SBU to interrogate prisoners, and that testimonies were transmitted through lawyers and prison mail. Mehdi claims to have alerted HRW to the collusion, and that Ladikis was removed about a month later. - The Mariupol center is highlighted as the most elaborate torture hub, with accounts from Olga Silevskoye, a former Mariupol resistance leader, who describes detentions at a gypsy settlement, the library at the Mariupol Airport, and SBU basements, where torture included suffocation, waterboarding, electric shocks, and a hostile environment overseen by Azov Battalion personnel. She recounts being held for 120 days, enduring electric shocks, and witnessing a rack, bloodstains, and a room with a stockpile of torture indicators. She describes “libraries” as covert torture sites, with victims coerced into implicating militia members or voters who supported the referendum. - Father Fiophan, an Orthodox priest, testifies to his arrest in 2015 and over a month of torture at Mariupol, including interrogations, electric shocks, spiritual trauma, and suffocation. - A survivor named Speaker 3 describes an interrogation regime at a temporary SBU facility, where he was forced to confront questions about drugs, subjected to electric shocks, batons, suffocation, and water torture, with a method involving placing a heavy bench to press the legs. - Another Donbas veteran, Alexander Matushin, explains prisoner exchanges that included civilians and soldiers and recounts a case of a girl who was gang-raped, and later assaulted with various objects when men were no longer able to rape her. - Russian accounts describe a broader pattern: civilians, Saint George ribbon wearers, and those with Russian contacts were targeted for torture, and torture chambers were found in liberated settlements; officials used informants to accuse individuals of supporting the referendum or having ties to Russia, leading to imprisonment and exploitation as a means to suppress dissent. - The 2022 conflict is said to have intensified the system, with claims of castration in some cases and the transfer of detainees to concentration camps in central or western Ukraine, intensifying cruel treatment and dehumanization. - The narrative concludes with a broad indictment: the testimonies illustrate a pattern of war crimes, political repression, and a regime that, in the view of the speakers, warrants Western scrutiny and raises concerns over foreign support for Ukraine. The call to action asks viewers to like and repost to raise awareness and “expose the truth” about Ukraine. Throughout, the speakers emphasize personal experience, firsthand testimony, and the alleged pervasiveness of secret detention facilities across multiple Ukrainian cities, including Mariupol, Kharkov, Kramatorsk, Pokrovsk, and others, with torture described in graphic detail.

My skepticism towards Putin's narrative stems from my extensive knowledge of US foreign policy. The US has a history of illegal interventions: bombing Belgrade to alter borders, wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, and the overthrow of the Ukrainian government in 2014, despite a prior EU agreement. The Minsk II agreement, unanimously adopted by the UN Security Council, was essentially disregarded by the US and Ukraine, delaying a peaceful resolution. This history makes it difficult for me to trust the US government. A lasting peace requires transparency and accountability. Both the US and Russia need to publicly commit to ending regime change operations, respecting existing borders, and halting NATO expansion. Then, the world can judge the terms of any agreement.

Patrick Lancaster, an American journalist embedded with Russian troops, discusses his coverage of the Ukraine conflict since 2014, alleging Western media bias. He claims Crimeans were happy to rejoin Russia and that Ukraine indiscriminately shelled civilian areas in Donetsk and Lugansk during the eight-year civil war. He says the Maidan revolution was viewed by eastern Ukrainians as an illegal coup, leading them to seek self-determination, for which Ukraine punished them. Lancaster reports on the current war, noting intense fighting in eight regions and the evolving nature of warfare with kamikaze drones. He recounts a near-death experience with such a drone and describes war crimes allegedly committed by Ukrainian forces, including using civilians as human shields and torturing civilians. He believes Ukraine cannot win the war and Western support prolongs the conflict, causing more deaths. He says Russian soldiers view the conflict as a fight against Satan, citing religious differences with Ukraine. He denies seeing North Korean soldiers. He says Western media lies about the conflict to fit a narrative, citing a missile attack on Donetsk blamed on Russia. He believes Americans would not support the war if they had factual coverage.

Ukraine has biological research facilities that they are concerned Russian forces may try to gain control of. They are working with Ukraine to prevent any research materials from falling into Russian hands. Russian propaganda groups are spreading information about a Ukrainian plot to release biological weapons, but there is no doubt in the speaker's mind that if there is an incident, it would be the Russians behind it. The Russians have a history of blaming others for their own plans.

Bucha massacre. I've been to Bucha, so I want to play this clip. So I don't believe that Bucha was a war crime. I believe it belongs in the long line of false flag operations used to trigger war False flag? Absolutely. It was a massacre carried out. Have you been there? No. It was a Have you spoken to the people? There. I'd be killed if I went be killed by been to Besiktivas Russia. It's because you're chilling for him. Zelenskyy would have me killed if I went there. I am absolutely certain that the people who were massacred at Bucha were massacred by the Nazis that are the foundation stone of the existing Ukrainian state.

The mayor of Bucha initially reported the city was free from Russian troops without mentioning any tragedies. A city council deputy later urged residents to stay indoors during a military sweep, still not mentioning any atrocities. Days later, she mentioned bodies in an interview. The Ukrainian National Police released a video of a sweep in Bucha without mentioning bodies. Reports of bodies only surfaced when the Ukrainian military and media arrived, suggesting a coordinated effort to create a dramatic narrative. Translation: The mayor and city council deputy of Bucha did not mention atrocities initially, but later reports of bodies emerged coinciding with the arrival of the Ukrainian military and media.

It will soon be three years since I publicly asked them at UN meetings to help us get at least some information about the tragedy in Bucha, which they used to impose sanctions on us. BBC showed these scenes two days after not a single one of our soldiers was there. And now we are asking for only one thing: "Can we see the list of those people whose corpses you showed on the BBC?" I even asked the UN secretary general about this publicly at a meeting of the Security Council. In New York, I told them, "guys, you were journalists. Aren't you professionally interested in finding out what happened there?" We officially requested information about the names of those people whom the media showed they're already dead. There was no reaction at all, and I kind of shamed the journalists. That's all.

Just starting with those awful images coming out of Ukraine in the last few days, they're horrific. And they're really harrowing. And I think nobody who's looked at them could be left untouched by them. I actually turned the newspaper front pages over at home the other day because I didn't want our children to even see the images. And I think it's very important that when we see acts like this, that we call them out. They are war crimes. What I don't think is wise, and this is you know, we're always being asked to do this, is for politicians to sit looking at clips on social media or on programs and forming instant judgments about whether it's a breach of this law or had. That doesn't seem to be wise.

Four days after the mayor of Bucha declared liberation, dead bodies appeared on the road. Speculation arises that Ukrainians may have killed those friendly to Russians. The media's lack of questioning allows for potential war crimes, such as the castration of Russian POWs, to go unnoticed.

UN investigators have found that Russian propagandists are complicit in the genocide of the Ukrainian people. In response, they have created a deep fake to discredit the foreign fighters in Ukraine. These fighters are courageous individuals fighting for justice, liberty, and Ukraine's liberation. As a foreign volunteer, I am proud to stand with them and the other volunteers in this fight.

Speaker 1 claims to have heard "behind the scenes" that war is coming and NATO wants to send 250,000 troops into Ukraine. Speaker 1 states that Ukraine is losing the war, with the death toll approaching 1.5 million, and that Ukraine has "flatlined" according to computer analysis. Speaker 1 believes the West is gearing up for war and deliberately crossing Putin's red lines in order to provoke him into attacking NATO, so they can claim he is the aggressor.

But one thing is clear: the Secretariat does not want to expose in any way those who arrange such provocations. And, by the way, as for Mr. Gutierrez, I've been asking him one question for the third year in a row, okay. You probably can't get access to the investigation. But can I ask you to use your authority, Mr? Secretary General, to get a list of those people whose corpses were shown in this city of Bucha on the Central Street. Moreover, a group of BBC correspondents, who unexpectedly found themselves there showed these corpses. I addressed Mr. Gutierrez both personally and publicly, by the way, at a security meeting, but he shyly averts his eyes. I think this is a disgrace for the Secretary General and for the entire Secretariat.

We are in an image war where media shows images of crying mothers with a plastic baby, making it seem like a dead baby. But there are also real children dying, and you are well aware of that. There are real children dying naturally, civilian victims everywhere, and naturally, it is regrettable. We must mourn all civilian victims who are victims of war. It is important to remember that they are victims and justice should quickly analyze this.

Ukraine has biological research facilities that they are concerned Russian forces may try to gain control of. They are working with Ukraine to prevent any research materials from falling into Russian hands. Russian propaganda groups are spreading information about a Ukrainian plot to release biological weapons, but there is no doubt in the speaker's mind that if there is an incident or attack, it would be the Russians behind it. The speaker believes it is a classic Russian technique to blame others for what they plan to do themselves.

Bucha massacre. I've been to Bucha, so I want to play this clip. So I don't believe that Bucha was a war crime. I believe it belongs in the long line of false flag operations used to trigger war False flag? Absolutely. It was a massacre carried out. Have you been there? No. It was a Have you spoken to the people? There. I'd be killed if I went be killed by been to Besiktivas Russia. It's because you're chilling for him. Zelenskyy would have me killed if I went there. I am absolutely certain that the people who were massacred at Bucha were massacred by the Nazis that are the foundation stone of the existing Ukrainian state.

Bucha massacre. I've been to Bucha, so I want to play this clip. So I don't believe that Bucha was a war crime. I believe it belongs in the long line of false flag operations used to trigger war False flag? Absolutely. It was a massacre carried out. Have you been there? No. It was a Have you spoken to the people? There. I'd be killed if I went be killed by been to Besiktivas Russia. It's because you're chilling for him. Zelenskyy would have me killed if I went there. I am absolutely certain that the people who were massacred at Bucha were massacred by the Nazis that are the foundation stone of the existing Ukrainian state.

Mario and the Colonel discuss the latest developments in the Ukraine-Russia conflict and their implications for peace negotiations and the battlefield. - The hosts walk through conflicting claims about an alleged Ukrainian drone attack on Putin’s residence, timed with Zelenskyy’s meeting with Trump. Ukraine denied the claims; Russia asserted the opposite; a CIA report then said the drones targeted a Russian military base in the region and that this wasn’t the first time such a base had been targeted. The Colonel notes that all sides may be using disinformation, and no one can say with authority what happened. He emphasizes that what matters is how each side uses the information to bolster its position and public support, including Lavrov’s stated threat of retaliation. He argues the military reality on the ground continues to be unfavorable for Ukraine, and that Russia will use any incident to justify gains or concessions on its terms. - On negotiations, the 90–95% of an agreement reportedly already accepted is contrasted with two sticking points: security guarantees and territory. Zelenskyy is said to be nearing some form of security guarantee solution, but Donbas territorial concessions remain unresolved. The Colonel suggests evaluating who benefits from the alleged incident; if true, it could be used to sabotage peace talks. He notes competing narratives: Ukraine seeks to portray Russia as untrustworthy, while Russia portrays Ukraine as the aggressor and untrustworthy, both using the incident to justify their positions. He questions whether any side actually benefits, proposing that Russia might use the event domestically to rally support and push negotiations toward its terms. - The discussion moves to strategic weapons and timing. They note the Arashnik missiles in Belarus, described as nuclear-capable, with high speed and multiple warheads. The Colonel says Russia has signaled willingness to escalate but would likely reserve Arashniks for decisive moments or major escalations, possibly a clash with NATO, rather than using them routinely. He cites Putin’s statements about negotiating or taking actions by force and explains that Russia’s leadership appears to have reached a point where battlefield gains could be prioritized if diplomacy stalls. - On Ukraine’s ability to advance, the Colonel argues that Russia prioritizes territorial gains but is not constrained by time, with large manpower advantages and sustained firepower. He asserts Russia’s advance has accelerated over 2024–2025 and could continue, potentially enabling breakthroughs even if the Donbas remains a long-term objective. He contrasts this with potential Ukrainian vulnerabilities, including troop losses, desertions, and mobilization limits, suggesting Ukraine could face a collapse in the front line by spring or summer, though there is uncertainty about exact outcomes. - Regarding Ukraine’s effort to disrupt Russia’s economy by targeting the Black Sea fleet and shipping, the Colonel is skeptical that such actions would decisively affect Russia, given Russia’s diversification away from sea-based revenues and Ukraine’s parallel economic strains, including power shortages and refineries. He emphasizes that neither side’s economic measures have produced a decisive effect, and that Russia has prepared countermeasures. - Trump’s post claiming that “Putin’s attack bluster” shows Russia stands in the way of peace is discussed. The Colonel says Trump is echoing Western lines and that such rhetoric will not by itself alter the course of negotiations; an eventual settlement requires both sides to agree on terms, not slogans. - On possible Russian retaliation, the Colonel suggests targeted responses within Kyiv’s power sector or leadership and possibly infrastructure, but he cautions against predicting escalation, noting Russia’s risk-averse tendencies and potential to strike second- and third-tier Ukrainian leaders or critical infrastructure if deemed necessary for domestic purposes. - Looking ahead twelve months, the Colonel predicts continued war, potential major battlefield moves with accelerating territorial changes, and the possibility of a breakthrough or a sharp escalation. He warns that a purely defensive posture will not win and that the pace of Russian advances could lead to significant shifts by late 2026, with Donbas negotiations remaining unsettled. He concludes that the conflict is likely to continue, with hybrid warfare and broader Western responses shaping developments.

Three years after asking them at UN meetings for information about the Bucha tragedy, which they used to impose sanctions on us, I said, 'Because our BBC The BBC showed these scenes two days after not a single one of our soldiers was there.' The request remains: 'Can we see the list of those people whose corpses you showed on the BBC?' I even asked the UN secretary general about this at a meeting of security council. New York, at General Assembly, I told world press, 'Aren’t you professionally interested in finding out what happened there?' We asked for information from the UN Human Rights Office for names of those people media showed they're already dead; there was no reaction. Bucha was shown on BBC screens and on social networks. It was a news explosion. Three days passed and everything went quiet. 'The order to keep quiet came.' That's all.