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It is suggested that a small group was involved in something "off the charts bad." The speaker hopes someone like Whitney Webb will one day explain exactly how it was formulated, what they were doing, and how they were getting information out of people. The speaker believes that those involved have to age out and die before the truth comes out, using the JFK assassination as an example of a truth that remains hidden.

Speaker 0 notes that the last administration was not transparent on the issue, but with the task force created, they have guided members within what they're cleared for. He asserts that they have encountered alien beings and recovered vehicles, with physical proof, and that he was partially cleared into those activities, having read intelligence reports from those programs. Speaker 1 reflects that online discourse about encounters and videos is plentiful, and asks if there is belief that the US government knows about alien beings coming to Earth. Speaker 0 responds that he doesn’t like to characterize where they came from, but they are definitely some kind of nonhuman sentience. He claims to have recovered vehicles and physical proof and says he had partial access to the data and to intelligence reports. He confirms seeing with his own eyes according to his account. Speaker 2 says NASA speaks for itself and claims transparency with data, and asks whether to believe David Crush or if he is lying, and where the evidence is. Speaker 0 asserts that members of the current administration are very aware of this reality and the current president is knowledgeable on the subject. He trusts the president’s leadership and believes the president has assembled a team; he says if Trump wants to be the greatest president and the most consequential leader in world history, he certainly has the knowledge, capabilities, and understanding of some of these sensitive government transparency issues. Speaker 3 says he has access and has had meetings with very smart people who believe there is something out there, and it makes sense there could be. He is not convinced himself. He asks if the person believes one, that he knows, and two, that he’s open to transparency on UAPs. Speaker 0 reiterates that the president is very well informed on the issue, and avoids revealing more than the president might want to reveal. He notes a role to cover this up through administrations. Speaker 1 asks about years of threat and testimony. Speaker 0 says he was physically threatened even before submitting his intelligence community inspector general report under the previous administration, and sought legal protection because of professional and personal fear. Speaker 1 asks about recovering pilots or remains and whether that was seen with his own eyes. Speaker 0 confirms there were pictures and says yes, there were remains. Speaker 1 questions whether the origin is from another planet or outer space, and if it is interdimensional, seeking clarification. Speaker 0 explains he has talked to many veterans of the program and keeps an open mind on origin. He acknowledges an extraterrestrial hypothesis but does not usually go there because he did not see the data, and he is not conversant in the high-confidence theories the US government has. He is not aware of any remains or signs of extraterrestrial beings or technology by his department. Speaker 3 says the US government knows, but asks whether other governments know. Speaker 0 says they know and have their own programs, and notes that two and a half years ago the US has been in an arms race with peer competitors like Russia and China, who have their own programs. He says he was able to view intelligence discussing adversarial programs and will leave it at that. Speaker 3 states that they’ve recovered things, and Speaker 0 confirms, noting there were bodies and physical remains. They discuss whether the motive or intent of the visitors was peaceful or not, acknowledging a mixed bag of activity and motive. They consider whether Earth’s genetic material could be a reason for visits, even jokingly proposing Jurassic Park as a tourist attraction for genetic material on Earth.

The speaker was asked if Jeffrey Epstein worked for an intelligence agency and why a minute was missing from the jailhouse tape on the night of his death. Regarding the client list, the speaker stated the file is sitting on their desk to be reviewed, along with the JFK and MLK files. The tens of thousands of videos turned out to be child porn downloaded by Epstein and will never be released. The speaker has no knowledge of Epstein being an agent. Evidence showed he committed suicide. The missing minute from the video was due to the Bureau of Prisons resetting the video every night, and every night should have the same minute missing. They are looking for that video to release.

Speaker 0: If these assessments are correct, they are very covert weapons, aren’t they? Speaker 1: That’s correct. There’s no entry or exit wound. How they’re designed is to make the target feel like they’re crazy, like they’re imagining things. Speaker 0: And you also said these attacks are happening right here in this city. Is that correct? Speaker 2: I mean, have been some that have gone public with respect to Washington DC. Speaker 0: I think it was Mister Grozov said you spoke to a Russian agent who said that they believe that Americans are using the same weapons on them. Is that correct? Speaker 3: That is correct. Speaker 0: Might that have something to do with part of the CIA’s motive to cover up the existence of the this tech and these weapons? Speaker 3: That is a very logical possibility. Speaker 0: Thank you. Mister chairman, I yield back. Speaker 2: Gentleman yields. Chair now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mister Goldman, for his random questioning. Speaker 3 (Mister Goldman): Thank you, Mister chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for being here. Mister Grosev, I want a follow-up on the interactions you’ve had with Russian intelligence about these AHIs. Mister Zaid, I want to ask—this is hypothetical—but I’m trying to understand why the U.S. government would try to block information sharing or conceal information that they have. One thing that comes to mind is whether there’s an operational risk to revealing any of the details of their investigation. Is that something you have come across in any of your work? Speaker 2 (Mister Zaid): There are a lot of reasons why the information might not be publicly released. I do think that’s something we could address more in a classified environment to explain that, but there are understandable reasons why the U.S. government has not revealed much of what it knows. Speaker 1: There’s some long-term things that needs to be done in terms of new acts. But in the short term, we need to do things like implement the original Havana Act.

- Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss the possibility that a friend was murdered and suggest that both victims died suddenly from fast-moving cancer, a method they say the agency uses overseas to eliminate people. Speaker 1 admits he cannot prove this but notes the sudden deaths. - The conversation asserts that the US government has technology to infect people with fast-moving cancer and to perform cognitive and directed-energy warfare. Speaker 0 states the government has the technology to infect with fast-moving cancer and to do so absolutely. - In 1997, Speaker 1 describes a hearing on asymmetric threats where he chaired the research committee and focused on four threats: drones, cyberattacks, electromagnetic pulse (EMP), and cognitive warfare. He asserts that cognitive warfare is now being labeled by some as Havana syndrome and that directed-energy weapons are the underlying technology. - Speaker 2 recounts a recent homeland security hearing about foreign adversaries using direct weapons against US citizens, enabling incapacitation. He emphasizes the chilling nature of the briefing and criticizes current domestic leadership as foolish, corrupt, incompetent, and wicked. - Speaker 3 notes that up to 40% of the Air Force equipment budget in the 1990s was classified, making much of it “black.” He emphasizes that military and security research often precedes civilian medical science, and that servicemen were used in experiments without fully informed consent, referencing NK Ultra-era disclosures of thousands of service members used as subjects. - Speaker 4 discusses MKUltra, describing a Canadian experiment involving psychic driving with massive LSD doses, eye-tracking, and memory loss, funded by MKUltra and affecting civilians. He mentions Project Midnight Climax, where Johns were observed in brothels while subjected to LSD, and notes similar experiments by the British Royal Air Force and Army. The results of Midnight Climax are unknown, with no published after-action reports. - Speaker 3 adds that Secretary of Energy O’Leary stated under Clinton that over a half a million Americans had been used in human experiments over four decades without informed consent, including mind control, with no accountability. He argues that mind-control technology has advanced, and questions who should govern its use, given the lack of legal frameworks. - The discussion covers mind-effects research and the lack of treaties governing such technologies. They reference a European Parliament security and disarmament resolution (1999) addressing mind-effects and mind-control technology, and Russian Duma resolutions (2002) seeking similar safeguards. Zabigniew Brzezinski’s Between Two Ages is cited regarding electronically stroking the ionosphere to influence behavior over geographic areas, connecting it to HARP and other electromagnetic carriers capable of mass or individual influence. - Speaker 6 explains historical demonstrations of electronic mind control, starting with Jose Delgado’s remote manipulation of a charging bull using radio energy and electrodes, and notes later work showing noninvasive techniques to influence behavior using low-power magnetic fields. Speaker 7 reiterates Delgado’s animal studies and the potential for noninvasive methods to affect emotions and memory, with broader implications for humans. - Speaker 3 discusses the progression of research funded by DARPA and others toward higher-resolution control of brain activity, enabling controlled effects that override senses and create synthetic memories, raising questions about future justice and evidence. They describe European Parliament and NATO/US military interest in mind-control technologies and the absence of robust legal protections. - Speaker 9 presents advances in AI-enabled brain-reading and memory-altering devices, including mind-reading and emotion decoding, while Speaker 10 and Speaker 12 discuss privacy concerns, brain-data privacy laws (Colorado’s law adding brain data to privacy protections), and the availability of consumer devices that decode brainwaves. They warn that brain data can be misused by insurers, law enforcement, advertisers, and governments, with private companies often sharing data without clear disclosure. - The segment concludes with a note that devices can infer attention and thoughts, and that DARPA’s N3D program aims for noninvasive neuromodulation with implantable electrodes read/write capabilities. It references 1980s–1990s discussions of RF energy as a potential nonlethal mind-control technology, and a 1993 Johns Hopkins conference listing low-frequency weapons as attractive options.

Speaker 0 argues about K Ultra, saying they were sued and denied its existence, then said it exists but isn’t used anymore, and expresses disbelief in the denial. He claims a kid with access to guns or some knowledge was programmed, stating that Christy Noem, Cash Patel, Bongino, and others are reporting facts as they know them, while those who knew the truth are buried, burned, or dead, and suggests they are likely dead. He asserts this is what happens in Washington, says it’s too deep, and wishes for firing everyone to restart, but security concerns prevent that because dangerous people or terrorists could be let go. He says Cash Patel and Bongino are having a hard time due to this, and that he doesn’t care which side, but at their level that’s what happened. He claims the CIA said they don’t have this thing, then brought in, in court of law, that they have it but don’t use it anymore, and suggests somebody is using it and knows to contact these people. He recalls the American Taliban case and asserts that the kid in that case was programmed, noting that nobody talks about it anymore and suggesting it involved American parents and a Greek church. He describes Knoxville crime scenes with local police blocking off scenes, tarps, and keeping people away, and mentions his own sponsorship of legislation on cremation, implying laws may have been violated by quick cremation of the body, possibly eleven days after death, and that if an investigation was ongoing there would be rules about disposal of the body. He adds that he called a marine sniper who said he could have made the shot with iron sights without a scope and that the team got lucky; he references biblical notions about divine awareness of sparrows and hairs on heads, suggesting the sniper might believe it. Speaker 1 asks if Speaker 0 is alleging that Thomas Crooks was groomed by some dark intel program, MK Ultra or otherwise, to commit an assassination on that day. Speaker 0 responds affirmatively, saying he has said so all along and is glad Tucker Carlson’s credibility has brought it out, noting that he often yells this stuff and is disregarded, but urges looking at history, the deep state, and the current state of the country. He claims 12% of the population voting leaves them vulnerable and that there are few people in position who could damage them like Trump, saying they are not after Trump but after “us,” and that Trump is standing in their way.

Speaker 1 claims MK Ultra caused suicides and that CIA shrinks were used on operations, including one where a man's arm was hypnotized in the air for two hours. The CIA, post-9/11, shifted from intelligence gathering to a paramilitary organization focused on high-tech surveillance rather than recruiting spies. Speaker 1 was approached by an FBI agent posing as a Japanese diplomat attempting to elicit espionage. Speaker 1 went to jail for revealing in an ABC interview that the CIA had a torture program, authorized by the president, who then lied about it. No torturers were prosecuted. After Obama's election, John Brennan allegedly reopened the case against Speaker 1 due to personal animosity, seeking an espionage charge, despite lacking evidence. The FBI then tried to set up Speaker 1 to commit espionage. Speaker 1 believes the CIA uses psychological profiling on presidents, manipulating them. Congress is now cheerleaders for intelligence agencies instead of providing oversight. The CIA is forbidden from spying on American citizens, but NSA leaked Speaker 1's information to the New York Times. Torture doesn't work, and the CIA used techniques that led to deaths. Speaker 1 was charged with espionage, making a false statement, and violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. The speaker took a plea deal to avoid a longer sentence. The CIA objected to Speaker 1's placement in a minimum-security prison. The speaker believes elements of the CIA were responsible for JFK's assassination. The speaker also claims mind control is not science fiction and that the CIA talked about infecting people with cancer.

The discussion centers on concerns about the CIA’s influence over American media and how covert connections abroad could affect news domestically. Speaker 0 states a real concern: planted stories intended to serve a national purpose abroad could come back home and be circulated and believed in the United States, implying the CIA could manipulate the news in the U.S. by channeling it through a foreign country. The participants agree to examine this matter carefully. Speaker 1 raises a targeted question about individuals paid by the CIA contributing to major American journals, effectively asking whether there are CIA-paid contributors to prominent news outlets. Speaker 2 acknowledges that there are people who submit pieces to American journals and asks about whether any are paid by the CIA who are working for television networks, indicating a potential broader reach across media. Speaker 2 suggests that detailing “this kind of getting into the details” is something they would prefer to handle in an executive session, signaling a desire to limit public discussion at that stage. Speaker 3 provides historical context from CBS, noting that “the ships had been established” by the time the speaker became head of the news and public affairs operation in 1954, and that he was told to carry on with them, implying an established framework of CIA involvement or collaboration. Speaker 0 reiterates the need to evaluate the information and to “include any evidence of wrongdoing or any evidence of impropriety in our final report and make recommendations,” indicating a plan to compile findings and address possible abuses. The question is revisited: “Do you have any people being paid by the CIA who are contributing to the national news services, AP and UPI?” Speaker 2 again wants to move the discussion to an executive session, suggesting sensitivity about the specifics and possibly broader implications. Speaker 0 notes that the final report’s content or title “that remains to be decided,” leaving unresolved how the findings will be presented. Speaker 3 asserts that correspondents at the time “made use of the CIA agent chiefs of station and other members of the executive staff of CIA as sources of information which were useful in their assessments of world conditions,” indicating direct use of CIA personnel as information sources. The question is asked whether this practice continues today, and Speaker 3 responds affirmatively, though with caveat: due to revelations of the 1970s, a reporter “has got to be much more circumspect” and careful, or risk being looked at with considerable disfavor by the public. The speaker emphasizes the need for greater prudence in contemporary reporting in light of those revelations.

- The conversation centers on Congress’s upcoming hearing about MKUltra, prompted by Representative Anna Paulina Luna. The hosts note Luna’s history of revisiting old conspiracies that later proved real and caution that expectations for the hearing should be modest, recalling past revelations about JFK. - Kevin Shipp, a CIA whistleblower and author of Twilight of the Shadow Government, joins the discussion to discuss MKUltra, CIA secrecy, and the current relevance of past programs. He notes that MKUltra was a covert CIA program that ran for decades, focusing on mind control, behavior modification, and interrogation techniques with experimental drugs like LSD, sensory deprivation, and hypnosis, often conducted without consent or knowledge. He emphasizes that the program’s full details remain murky because the CIA destroyed large portions of records in the 1970s. - Shipp asserts that while the CIA claimed MKUltra ended in 1973, there is no evidence they actually did end it. He cites Victor Marchetti, author of The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence, who suggested the program continued under a different cover name. He argues that the same “matrix of secrecy” and “special access programs” persist today in the CIA, and oversight committees have failed to reform the agency; they meet less frequently and are subject to CIA secrecy agreements. - On historical exposure, Shipp mentions Operation Paperclip, where Nazi war criminal scientists’ files were falsified and handed to Truman; some of these scientists were hired by the CIA and used in MKUltra and related programs. He claims the CIA has a “bloody and deceitful track record” and questions whether the CIA has terminated MKUltra, suggesting it could continue in a different form. He also references his interviews with Carol, the daughter of John Warner, who says her father resigned in response to the CIA’s actions, including MKUltra, and that she has counseled patients who exhibit MKUltra-like damages. - The discussion turns to the possibility that MKUltra exists today outside the CIA’s direct umbrella, via NGOs and other facilities. Speaker 2 mentions an upcoming MKUltra whistleblower interview revealing astonishing claims about experiments on children and ongoing concerns about the hearing being sabotaged by false information to distort public perception. - The speakers discuss the plausibility of “Manchurian candidates”—mind-controlled operatives at high levels of government and industry. Shipp confirms that MKUltra involved training in forensic psychophysiology and manipulation of the mind, and that former agents could still be operating under new programs. He argues that the CIA’s morality is lacking, that “human life is cheap,” and that the agency would engage in such activities, though not all CIA personnel share these views. - The conversation covers the shift to more covert technologies: targeted energy weapons, nanobot and drone-like surveillance, and the integration of the CIA into an “ Directorate for Digital Innovation” merging with artificial intelligence. Shipp warns of risks associated with AI and nanotechnology, arguing for Congress to conduct a genuine church-style committee to break up the CIA or place its functions under the DIA. He asserts that many elected officials are influenced or controlled by the CIA, and that public pressure is essential to demand thorough investigation and reform. - The program closes with praise for Shipp’s book, Twilight of the Shadow Government, and with well-wishes regarding his son’s recovery after directed-energy-related incidents. The hosts encourage viewers to subscribe and share the video.

The discussion shifts to the JFK assassination following news coverage of released documents. One revelation discussed is that James Angleton, the CIA counterintelligence chief, used Israelis to monitor Lee Harvey Oswald prior to the assassination. JFK was allegedly concerned with Israel acquiring nuclear weapons in the summer of 1963, and sent letters to David Ben-Gurion demanding inspections. Ben-Gurion resigned when pressed on the issue. The speaker asks if the current administration will acknowledge Israel's nuclear arsenal. The response states that 80,000 pages of unredacted records related to the Kennedy assassination have been released by order of President Trump, and that this is all the material. There will be no comment on speculation or conspiracy theories about the assassination.

Director Deutch and Congressman Julian Dixon are interrupted by audience members as they discuss allegations of CIA and agency involvement in drug activities. A former Los Angeles Police narcotics detective, Mike Rupert, asserts that the agency has dealt drugs across the country for a long time. He directs his comments to Director Deutch and references specific agency operations named Amadeus, Pegasus, and Watchtower. Rupert states that he has Watchtower documents that are heavily redacted by the agency, and that he was personally exposed to CIA operations and recruited by CIA personnel in the late 1970s to help protect agency drug operations in the United States. He asks, in the context of the IG’s investigations and Fred Hitz’s work, whether, if evidence of severely criminal activity is found and it is classified, the classification will be used to hide the crime or to tell the American people the truth. The moderator then defers to Director Deutch to speak first and then to Congressman Dixon. A speaker on the panel (Speaker 2) suggests that if there is information about CIA illegal activity in drugs, it should be brought to the Los Angeles Police Department, the inspector general, or to a congressperson. The moderator emphasizes that the audience wants to hear the answer. Another speaker (Speaker 3) adds that if information turns up wrongdoing, the proper recourse is to bring those responsible to justice. Congressman Julian Dixon expresses appreciation for the visit. He thanks the attendee and acknowledges the interest in discussion, inviting the guest to provide information privately or through the committee staff so it can be contacted that evening. A staff member (Speaker 3) asks for the information to be handed up so it can be seen by all. Rupert identifies himself for the record as Mike Rupert, with the spelling of his name given, and notes that he brought this information out eighteen years ago, was shot at, and forced out of the LAPD, and has been on the record for eighteen years. He offers to provide Congress with anything he has. The exchange ends with the acknowledgment of Rupert’s statement and an expression of thanks from Congressman Dixon.

In 1992, Congress passed the JFK Records Act, mandating the release of all records related to the assassination unless national security was at risk. The Assassination Records Review Board tried to get records released until 1998, but the CIA did not cooperate, claiming national security concerns. The speaker claims the CIA has revealed nothing of importance, despite evidence of illegal activities in foreign policy. The speaker asks the committee to reopen the investigation into President Kennedy's assassination, citing issues with the Warren Commission's findings. The speaker calls for reinvestigation of the crime scene, chain of custody of evidence, and Lee Harvey Oswald's connections to intelligence agencies. The speaker demands a true interrogation of the CIA, whose "muddy footprints" are all over the case. Quoting CIA member James Angleton, the speaker suggests some CIA members deserve to "end up in hell." The speaker concludes by saying the presidency belongs to the people and asks to be treated with respect.

Speaker states that, as documented, the conversations between the CIA and Ishi led to every doctor from Unit 731 walking free, while the victims were forgotten and erased for the sake of national security.

The task force could also consider whether a new incarnation of MKUltra exists today. Sidney Gottlieb concluded that after MKUltra’s main phase ended in the early 1960s, it had failed and that there is no such thing as mind control. Even if he was right at that time, advances since then—especially in cyber technology, artificial intelligence, and neuroscience—mean covert agencies may now have access to mind-control tools Sidney Gottlieb could not have imagined. It may have been true in 1963 that mind control is a myth, but whether that remains true is uncertain. The question of whether mind control might now be possible under new circumstances has presumably occurred to scientists working for secret services, including the group’s own. The task force has a chance to connect the past to the future by renewing efforts to locate MKUltra documents from the 1950s and to fill in redactions of released materials, which could shed new light on how the CIA operated during that period. This approach could also support a new inquiry into whether any mind control projects are currently underway within the US security apparatus. The speaker suggests that such an inquiry might help prevent the emergence of a 21st century MKUltra that could be even more destructive than the original. Thank you, Dr. Kinzer.

The speaker states the FBI handed over hundreds of pages of documents, but a source indicated more existed in the Southern District of New York. The speaker gave the FBI a deadline of Friday at 8 AM to release everything. Thousands of pages of documents arrived by the deadline and are now in the FBI's possession. Kash Patel and his team will produce a detailed report explaining why the documents were withheld. The speaker says the documents included flight logs, names, and victim names, but they are looking for the rest of the information. The speaker identified over 254 victims in phase one. The speaker says they believe in transparency and that America has the right to know. The speaker claims the Biden administration said no one did anything with the documents and questions why they were in the Southern District of New York. The speaker says national security and grand jury information may be redacted. The speaker says the public has a right to know about the JFK and Martin Luther King files as well. If something is redacted, the line will be noted, along with the reason for the redaction.

Speaker 0 introduces the topic of Israel allegedly having influence over the US government and mentions that Israel assassinated JFK, pointing to William Cooper as the source who was also assassinated by Israel. Speaker 0 references Cooper’s book Behold a Pale Horse and notes that Cooper was the first to obtain original footage from a CIA whistleblower showing who shot Kennedy and how they shot Kennedy. He says the media’s clips started at a cropped frame, and that Cooper’s release prompted further questions. Speaker 1 explains that the assassin was the driver in the car with Kennedy, visible in a film with public help. He brings the film, saying it shows the motorcade on Elm Street in front of the Book Depository Building, Kennedy having been shot in the throat, Jacqueline pulling Kennedy toward him in shock, and the driver turning around with a pistol in his left hand, firing over his right shoulder and shooting the president in the head. Speaker 2 asks for a repeat and then the duo watches the film. Speaker 1 identifies the driver as William Greer, noting he was a secret service agent. He describes the weapon as an electrically operated gas-powered assassination pistol built especially for the Central Intelligence Agency, asserting there is no puff of smoke. Speaker 2 questions whether the weapon is indeed a pistol in the lower right corner of the frame. Speaker 1 confirms it is an air-operated pistol (pneumatic) and claims it fired an exploding pellet that injected shellfish toxin into the president’s brain, so that if the pellet’s explosion did not kill him, the toxin would. He states that he read all of this in the documents. Speaker 0 asks what type of weapon was used to assassinate JFK and references the 1963 time frame, saying that intelligence agencies would have such weapons. He then questions whether intelligence agencies could have used such weapons to assassinate Charlie Kirk. He suggests listening to Jack Posobiec and others who are “carrying water for this administration,” implying time will tell.

The discussion centers on concerns that planted stories intended to serve a national purpose abroad could come back and be circulated in the United States, potentially allowing the CIA to manipulate U.S. news by channeling it through a foreign country. There is emphasis on looking at this very carefully. Questions were raised about whether any people paid by the CIA contribute to major American journals or to television networks. One speaker notes that some individuals submit pieces to American journals, and asks about whether any are paid by the CIA who work for television networks. The response indicates that this is a level of detail better addressed in executive session. It is stated that at CBS, the CIA had contacted the organization, and that by the time the head of the news and public affairs operation was appointed in 1954, “the ships had been established,” and he was told about them and asked to carry on with them. Regarding final reporting, there is a commitment to evaluate all the detailed information and to include any evidence of wrongdoing or impropriety in the final report and to make recommendations. The question is raised again about whether there are people paid by the CIA contributing to national news services such as AP and UPI, with the response again preferring to handle those details in executive session. When asked whether the new organization’s final report would be named, the speaker indicates that this remains to be decided. It is asserted that correspondents at that time were allowed to make use of CIA agent chiefs of station and other CIA executive staff as sources of information useful in their assessments of world conditions. The question is asked whether this continues today. The response acknowledges that it probably does for a reporter, but notes that due to revelations of the 1970s, a reporter would need to be much more circumspect now, and must be careful not to be viewed with considerable disfavor by the public.

It continued after that. When the church committee happened and Frank Church brought it out that MKUltra existed, well, the stuff hit the fan, and everybody started screaming, we need more of this. Well, Richard Helms, the director of the CIA, immediately destroyed 10,000 MKULTRA documents so that Congress couldn't see them and then threatened the CIA officers who were due to testify with prison if they violated their secrecy agreement. They tried that with me. So that's one of the means of control. So MKULTRA, they said after the church committee, well, we don't do that anymore. It's been done away with. Victor Marchetti, who wrote CIA and the Cult of Intelligence, I don't know if you're aware of that book. He was the first real CIA whistleblower. He said they claimed MK Ultra stopped at 1973, but he said that's just a cover story. It continued after that. He believes MK Ultra still exists, and one of the classic examples is Sirhan Sirhan, who was one of the shooters that killed Robert Kennedy senior. Sirhan Sirhan claimed he didn't remember anything about the event at all afterwards, and they went in there and tested him psychologically. And he was so programmable, they had him climbing his cell like a monkey. I have become friends because of our both of our kinds of disenchantment to say that with the CIA. And Bobby met with Sirhan Sirhan. He said he did he had no idea of what he'd done at all. No memory of it at all. And the psychiatrists were so easy, it was so easy rather to program him that they had him climbing the cell, like I said, like a monkey. And he was, I'm convinced, an MK Ultra subject. I'm absolutely convinced of this. I don't wanna speak for Bobby Kennedy Jr. We've become friends since, but I think he would probably agree with that as a classic case of it still existing. And why would Why would they give up such a powerful weapon? You can mind control individuals who can carry out assassinations or pretend to be an assassin as a patsy and be caught while actual CIA agents are actually shooting and killing JFK or shooting and killing RFK in a kitchen in Los Angeles. So it's a very convenient

After finishing the book *Zapping of America*, Speaker 0 says everyone should read it. Speaker 0 claims the book is about Raytheon and the television, stating “Raytheon” created the television, microwave, and cell phone. Speaker 0 then focuses on television radiation hazards, saying Raytheon paid John Osipchuk to study radiation hazards coming off televisions and using this as a reason Speaker 0 does not have a television. Speaker 0 describes “tons of electromagnetic pollution” coming off televisions and compares television broadcast exposure to microwave ovens: “The television broadcast industry irradiates the country of the population by a factor of more than 40,000, greater than the radiation due to microwave ovens,” while also stating there are “a million microwave ovens operating a half hour per day.” Speaker 0 addresses regulation by saying someone might ask whether the government would regulate such radiation, but claims there is no regulation because “the health hazard from such radiations have not been defined” and that “radiation hazards have not known to have been existing.” Speaker 0 further claims the government knew that microwave radiation generated at television frequencies could penetrate deeply into the body and affect the central nervous system, referencing “mk ultra.” Finally, Speaker 0 says Raytheon “decided never to formally publish or distribute this study,” and claims the sequence was that they “create the technology,” “poison the people,” then “tell them it’s safe” so they could sell more. Speaker 0 compares this to “vaccines.”

Speaker 0: We have a problem with the CIA and FBI in Washington. Speaker 1: What's your plan to start over and fix them? Speaker 0: They've gotten out of control, with weaponization and other issues. The people need to bring about change. We were making progress, but more needs to be done.

Good evening. After Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald, many Americans questioned the official narrative of the Kennedy assassination. The Warren Commission concluded that both acted alone, but doubts persisted. The term "conspiracy theory" emerged in 1964 as skepticism grew. Psychiatrist Louis Joylan West, who assessed Ruby, was a CIA contractor involved in mind control programs, raising further questions about his motives. A 1976 House committee suggested a conspiracy in Kennedy's murder, with the CIA as a prime suspect. Despite laws mandating document disclosure, recent administrations have withheld thousands of pages. A source with access to these documents claimed the CIA was involved in the assassination. This suggests a powerful, unaccountable force within the government, undermining democratic control. Trust in government has eroded since Kennedy's death, and many key figures have been aware of this troubling reality.

Operation Paperclip brought over 1,600 German scientists into the United States government after World War II, including individuals who had conducted human experimentation in concentration camps, and the CIA military were aware of their backgrounds but recruited them anyway. Speaker 0 asked whether there was direct documentation linking Paperclip scientists to the development of M-cultures and experimental protocols, including mescaline hypnosis and sensory deprivation—techniques also documented at Dachau. Speaker 1 said there was a connection, citing Kurt Bloma, chief of Biological weapons development for the Nazi government, who went to work for the CIA, and Walter Schreiber, surgeon general of the Nazi army, who also worked for the CIA. Speaker 1 then described a research finding involving a chalet-like site in Germany, where the current owner took them into the basement and identified cells as those where MKUltra officers worked side by side with Nazis to carry out “gruesome experiments,” described as continuations of experiments conducted by Nazis only a few years earlier nearby. Speaker 0 asked for timeline clarification, stating that the experiments were happening after the Nuremberg trials and that the CIA would have known they were crimes against humanity. Speaker 1 responded by saying they looked for an episode in which Nuremberg doctrines were posted on the wall in an MKUltra or CIA office, but they found no indication that Nuremberg principles were consulted or obeyed.

Speaker 0: Wikipedia is a propaganda operation, and one of its founders told me that the CIA or the American intel community is heavily involved in shaping the message, on Wikipedia. Did you come across evidence of that? Speaker 1: On the weaponization working group, as it's described by attorney general Bondi and the president's direction, intelligence community is one of the groups who was weaponized against the people, obviously. It's obvious. The question is, how are we gonna get to the bottom of it? Right? How are gonna get to the bottom of some of the weaponization of the government intelligence community against the citizens? And that's what I that's where I'm going now.

Speaker 0 recalls the public back-and-forth around MKUltra: initial discussion about it breaking, followed by lawsuits where the CIA and the federal government said it did not exist, then later statements that it does exist but they were no longer doing it. Speaker 0 asks which “lie” to believe. Speaker 1 frames the issue from the perspective of a senior CIA officer in the 1950s, describing the mindset that other people must be doing similar work, that the organization would “fall behind” if it did not, and that no one is looking over their shoulders. Speaker 1 says their job is to address that lack of oversight. Speaker 1 emphasizes “urgency and total secrecy,” adding that if any current research is occurring and it is conducted at a comparable level of secrecy to original MKUltra, it is “very deeply secret.” Speaker 0 comments that it will be hard for Congress to act “when there’s a dadgum compromise.”