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One speaker recounts that he did not like Bibi Netanyahu, describing Netanyahu as a destructive force and saying he was appalled by what was happening in Gaza, and that Netanyahu was using the United States to prosecute wars for the benefit of his country, which he called shameful and embarrassing and bad for the United States, a view he resented. He also notes that he didn’t hate Netanyahu. After that speech, there was a sharp backlash against Charlie Kirk and, to a lesser extent, the speaker, with Kirk having about $100 million in donors and being heavily dependent on them because his project was nonprofit. They went after him and tormented him, while a small, very intense group offended by the speech tormented Charlie Kirk until the day he died.

Speaker 1 questions the letter's truth; Speaker 2 confirms, "Yeah. I mean, it's it's real." They reference Nick Fuentes claiming Israel killed Charlie and mention "the call, like, Israel called him and told him to to to." Speaker 2 summarizes Charlie's Israel stance as nuanced: "he wanted people who controlled The Holy Land to be civilized people" and "didn't want it to be in the hands of Islam," preferring "a civilized group ... friendly to the West" over hostile Muslim nations. He was frustrated at being unable to criticize Israel without being labeled an anti Semitic, and had vehement disagreements about how the war was prosecuted and messaged; he wanted it to be over and saw more freedom to criticize America than Israel. "Even Tucker Carlson" noted Charlie Kirk's anti Semitic labeling; "BB's comments" were odd; he hosted critics like Dave Smith and recognized that "young people were much more Israeli skeptic," arguing that silencing debate would be a "huge disservice to the conservative movement."

I was shocked and sickened by the reaction of the ghoulish and really repulsive reaction of the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, to Charlie's death. He basically made it all about him and redirected the grief toward support for his project. "Benjamin Netanyahu is not the same as the nation of Israel at all." "BB's defenders, on the Internet will call me a liar or a kook, but that's a fact." "what he said was completely untrue." "Charlie didn't hate Jews. He loved Jews. He loved the state of Israel. He loved going there." "He did not like Bibi Netanyahu, and he said that to me many times." "He felt that Bibi Netanyahu was a very destructive force." "He was resentful that he believed Netanyahu was using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country." "Shortly after that speech, there was a very intense attack on Charlie; he had $100,000,000 worth of donors." "Two days before he died, he lost a $2,000,000 donation because he had publicly pledged to bring me to the next Turning Point Conference in December." "They put out a flyer basically saying that I was going to be at this event giving a speech."

Asked about the last meeting with Charlie, it wasn't 'about, like, this is what you should say,' but 'talking through the issues' with Charlie asking questions and 'then saying, Okay, I think I'm going to approach this issue this way and this is going to be my position on it.' They discussed 'USA to Israel,' and 'I'm opposed to USA to Israel. I want it to be drawn down,' noting Netanyahu's stance. They talked through 'why is Israel actually an American interest?' 'Why is it in America's interest to support Israel?' Charlie was a listener, and 'the open marketplace of ideas' was a core fundamental. He believed in that, which is why he annoyed people by platforming Tucker Carlson and others, because for Charlie, 'the idea that you're supposed to silence any opinion was anathema.' 'Do I think he went too far with it? Well, yes.'

I was shocked and sickened by the ghoulish and really repulsive reaction of the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, to Charlie's death, basically made it all about him and his country, redirecting the grief toward support for his projects. Charlie Kirk did not hate Jews. "Charlie didn't hate Jews. He loved Jews." He did not like Bibi Netanyahu, and he felt that B. Netanyahu was a very destructive force; "he was above all resentful that he believed Netanyahu was using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country, and that it was shameful and embarrassing and bad for The United States, and he resented it." After that speech, there was an intense attack on Charlie; "He had $100,000,000 worth of donors." Two days before he died, he lost a $2,000,000 donation because he had publicly pledged to bring me to the next Turning Point conference in December. The American Jewish Committee called Charlie Kirk an anti Semite and "dangerous." He was not an anti Semite. He was the opposite, and he was a great lover of people and a purveyor of peace. Seth Dillon of the Babylon Bee was out there demanding that Charlie Kirk take me off the roster, pull me off stage, because I had said things that BB didn't like or that he didn't like or whatever. This is a trend.

He did a lot to stifle my career, and suppressed me in many ways. And I antagonized him a lot and mocked him and ridiculed him and attacked his credibility. He was my opponent. But I would never wish death upon him. It is undeniable that he was a towering figure in American conservatism. He died at 31 years old and left a legacy that many people could not achieve in many lifetimes. And ultimately, that is why he was killed. Anyone, everyone, fighting and winning that spiritual battle for Christ and for his kingdom will be persecuted for his sake. And for that, I consider him a true martyr. Charlie Kirk was a good man. God bless him. And I pray for the repose of his soul, for his family, for him.

Charlie was trying to navigate this to keep the Nick Fuentes, neo Nazi, groyper stuff at bay while meeting Gen Z on their terms and guiding them toward a better place without the outmoded rhetoric and talking points of the 1970s, 1980s boomers. He aimed to "hold the line, to keep the Fuentes, Ruiper stuff decidedly on the fringe, very much out of the tent, at the movement." Charlie saw himself as a coalition leader of really MAGA, of the American right there, and sought a middle-ground foreign policy between Ron Paul isolationism and George W. Bush neoconservatism. Ali is probably why he gravitated towards my book and the Trump doctrine—conservative realist nationalist middle ground between the two poles. Think that's kind of why Charlie and I kind of saw eye to eye to eye analysis towards the end of his life. I think Tucker Carlson is a malicious anti Semite. I think he is the most dangerous anti Semite in the history of The United States.

Charlie Kirk is described as one of President Trump’s closest advisers who actively advocated against a war with Iran. He was in the Oval Office in the lead-up to the twelve-day war. The speaker notes they weren’t particularly close, but Charlie was very gracious when the speaker was running for Congress and was supportive. The last time the speaker saw Charlie Kirk on Earth was in June in the West Wing, in the stairwell, where Charlie, upon greeting, looked the speaker in the eye and, very loudly in a small, tight space, said, “Joe, stop us from getting into a war with Iran.” Charlie then walked off and is believed to have entered the Oval Office. The speaker emphasizes that Charlie Kirk, a close adviser who vocally urged rethinking relations with Israel and opposing war with Iran, was suddenly publicly assassinated, and there are questions about the lack of ability to investigate further. The speaker says it’s a data point that needs examination and questions what it means to say that people are not allowed to ask questions about the incident. The speaker mentions that they were part of an investigation involving the National Counterterrorism Center, but they were stopped from continuing to investigate. The FBI stated they stopped and turned everything over to Utah State Authorities because the matter would go to trial and was very sensitive, but the speaker asserts there was still information to look into and linkage for further investigation that could not be pursued. The speaker clarifies they are not drawing conclusions about who was responsible or the exact circumstances, but asserts there were unanswered questions. There is reference to “text messages that have been made public” showing that Charlie was under a lot of pressure from pro-Israel donors. It is reiterated that Charlie was advocating to President Trump against the war with Iran. In summary, the speaker presents Charlie Kirk as a former close adviser who urged restraint on a potential Iran war and a reevaluation of relationships with Israel, describes a sudden assassination with restricted inquiry, and cites a halted investigation by national security entities, noting publicized pressure from pro-Israel donors as part of the context.

Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss Charlie's approach. They note his genuine affection for Israel, and his private belief: "I love I don't think we should have another forever war, regime change war against Iran," which helped him bridge foreign-policy gaps because "this person doesn't hate me" and "it's not about disliking me or some weird bigotry." They caution against outsiders claiming to represent his cause. Charlie is described as a hardliner on immigration—"why aren't the deportations higher?"—yet he remained a constructive voice, saying, "I'm a free citizen. I love you guys," and using pressure to push for good outcomes rather than divisiveness. He worried about turning Iran strikes into a "regime change war," supported Israel, and, while backing strikes on a nuclear facility, insisted "no more" and "this can't become a bigger thing." He "never bent. He never became better" and kept integrity to the very end.

"It doesn't feel real." "I was not even a fan, not a friend, and actually an adversary, a foe." "We had a lot of differences, ideologically, politically, and we fought viciously." "Charlie Kirk never had a kind word to say about me in his life." "Now that he has died, I'll say some kind words about him." "In spite of that, it is undeniable that he was a towering figure in American conservatism." "He would take on almost any challengers." "And he did it all before the age of 31." "And ultimately that is why he was killed." "He was clearly a loving father, a loving husband." "He was beloved by millions of people." "God bless him." "I pray for the repose of his soul, for his family, for him."

Speaker 1 describes Charlie Kirk’s Christianity as sincere, saying it informed every part of his life—from his marriage and the way he treated his children to how he approached disagreement and thought of others—always primarily as people. He was younger, which made him hard to take seriously at first, but over more than ten years the speaker learned from him, especially how to disagree with people on topics they take seriously without hating them or feeling bitterness. Behind-the-scenes tensions existed in foreign policy debates within the GOP, but Kirk liked people. He would say privately that he agreed with them on some points. The speaker was struck that there was a person behind the views, which inspired him, and he believes God commands that and that Kirk lived it. Speaker 0 adds that Kirk treated everybody with respect, loved people, wanted their salvation, and sought their relationship with God, when disagreeing.

Benjamin Netanyahu is not the same as the nation of Israel at all. "Bibi is despised by many people, in Israel." There are "huge divisions within the Israeli government," and "parts of the intel world in Israel that do not support some things Benjamin Netanyahu has done recently." "his attempt to hijack Charlie's memory and use it for his own political ends, particularly because what he said was completely untrue." "Charlie didn't hate Jews. He loved Jews. He loved the state of Israel, loved going there." He "did not like Bibi Netanyahu, and he said that to me many times, and to people around him many times." "He felt that Bibi Netanyahu was a very destructive force." He was "appalled by what was happening in Gaza," and he "resented Netanyahu using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country, and that it was shameful and embarrassing and bad for The United States."

He did not like B. B. Netanyahu. He felt that B. B. Netanyahu was a very destructive force and was appalled by what was happening in Gaza. He was resentful that he believed Netanyahu was using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country, and that it was shameful and embarrassing and bad for The United States. He resented it and didn't hate Netanyahu. "There's no question that BB's defenders, on the internet will call me a liar or a kook. But that's a fact." "Enough text messages exist that I think it can probably be verified in pretty short order." Shortly after that speech, there was "a very intense attack on Charlie" and "I have no donors." He had "$100,000,000" worth of donors. "They went after him and tormented him ... until the day he died."

Speaker argues that 'you and the Likud party are cut from the same ideological cloth as Trump and the GOP in America.' They reference 'Charlie Kirk's assassination, who was a big mentor of mine' and say 'Evangelicals, from all my research, evangelicals are the reason that Israel has been supported in public sphere outside of just Jews.' They note 'So with Charlie's assassination and with the kind of trajectory that we see with, like, Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson.' They ask 'what's another game plan if we lose evangelical support for the state of Israel.' 'What's our backup plan to be strong, like outside of the diaspora?'

Charlie was loyal to people with whom he had shared history. He would never say an ill word about Candace and refused moral blackmail. He stayed loyal to old donors and Turning Point colleagues, avoided airing dirty laundry, and, though he disagreed with Candace and Tucker on the Israel issue, he recognized Tucker’s value and invited him to events. He could not be controlled or bought, and when faced with threats to cut large donations, he reacted with defiance: “screw me. No. Screw you.” He loved Israel and the Holy Land, and, amid a surge of anti-Israel sentiment on the right, he tried to chart a path forward for sympathizers. He wrote to Bibi: “You are losing the PR war. You need to change how you do your PR. You need to change your messaging to the American right,” suggesting a more passive relationship and opposing Islamic migration. He vented privately when accused of antisemitism, but publicly avoided such disclosures.

Charlie Kirk and I were not friends; the last week of his life we were beefing hard. But the day before he died, he sent me a personal message calling for personal dialogue, wanting me to come on the show. He said, 'We could be gentlemen together.' He said, 'we could deal with our disagreements agreeably.' In the past week and a half, watching talk of civil wars and censorship surrounding his death, I thought it was important to tell people: 'Don't put that on Charlie Kirk' because the last day of his life, he was reaching out to have not more censorship, more conversation, more dialogue with somebody who honestly was one of his adversaries, me. And I just wanna share that with the world. And I hope that maybe it might help somebody on both sides deal with issues more like he did.

Speaker recounts meeting with Charlie: it wasn’t about 'this is what you should say,' but 'talking through the issues' as Charlie asked questions and began forming positions. He would 'approach this issue this way' and decide his stance on topics like 'USA to Israel,' which speaker opposed, wanting it drawn down; Netanyahu has said he wants it drawn down. Charlie would articulate his position more quickly than the speaker. They discussed why is Israel actually an American America's interest to support Israel and explored approaches to justify it, not just those favored by Israelis or the Israeli government, but ways to help Charlie feel comfortable with a position. Charlie is a 'listener' who believes in the 'open marketplace of ideas'—his existential core—and he platformed Tucker Carlson; silencing any opinion was 'anathema' to him because of truth seeking. 'For all of us, our best traits we often have to a fault.'

I don't think we should have another forever war, regime change war against Iran. Don't do that. That turns everybody off. You don't help your own cause by doing that, and it's also literally untrue. The spirit that he operated in, which is one of love for other people, including people we disagree with, and don't make it, you know, as small bore as that. Charlie was a hardliner on immigration. He wanted us to control our borders as much as possible. He wanted us to ramp up the deportations. Why aren't the deportations higher? Why aren't you doing more? I'm a free citizen. I love you guys. I supported you guys, and I'm going to use my platform to try to accomplish as much good as I possibly can. I think that made him such an effective operator. And I would talk to Charlie.

As he was preparing for his campus tour, he decided that he wanted to have a meeting. Josh Hammer was on the call. I was on the call and a couple of Charlie's staff to talk through Israel issues. He was he was really grappling with these issues. I remember right after October 7, I was a little concerned about some of the things he was saying afterwards, and I wasn't so emotional. But I realized Charlie was looking at a lot of the Israel America stuff through the America first lens. The fact that he was meeting with you to refine his talking points, I assumed there was a lot of pushback. When when, you know, that reporter asked me what the mood of the meeting was, and I said it was combative. There's also within him a very faithful, bible believing evangelical Christian.

Good faith is the measure: 'If you were good faith, you're on his team.' They warn against appropriating his memory for parochial ends. He bridged foreign policy gaps with genuine affection for Israel: 'I love Israel. I don't think we should have another forever war, regime change war against Iran.' Charlie was a hardliner on immigration, wanting to 'control our borders' and asking, 'why aren't the deportations higher?' He believed 'Pressure is a friend. Pressure is somebody who cares deeply about the issue.' He warned that Iran strikes could become a regime change war: 'This can't become a bigger thing. This can't become a broader thing.' He could support Israel and 'did eventually support the strikes on the nuclear facility while simultaneously saying no more.' Donors to Turning Point were 'very tough on him... under enormous pressure.' 'He never bent. He never became better.' His integrity 'to the very end.'

Charlie Kirk's perspective on Israel was not starting to shift. It had shifted entirely. Israel knew that. Turning Point USA knew that because Charlie was explicit. He wrote of his deep love for Israel. About forty eight hours before Charlie Kirk died, Charlie informed people at Turning Point, as well as Jewish donors and a rabbi that he had no choice but to abandon the pro Israel cause outright. Charlie was done. He said it explicitly that he refused to be bullied anymore by the Jewish donors. Did he express that? Did he also express that he wanted to bring me, Candace Owens, back because he was standing up for himself? And then did he, just forty eight hours later, conveniently catch a bullet to the throat before our on stage reunion could happen?

On a Zoom call the night before his death, I was giving Charlie advice for how to message on this issue on his forthcoming campus tour, and he joked, “Josh, I'm gonna mention your book, Israel and civilization, and it's so good.” He referenced a letter to Netanyahu read in June or July; the opening sentence is, “As a Christian, one of my greatest joys in life is making friendships with the Jewish people and defending the state of Israel.” After his death, critics claimed he was turning on Israel, but that letter begins this way: “As a Christian… defending the state of Israel.” “Filth. Okay? Absolute filth. I I don't understand it.” “There was no truth in him.” He says three people claimed Charlie said within twenty four hours he thought they would kill him, and questions Josh Hammer about “the night before.” He warns: “if I get a text message… I will release it instantly. There'll be no place that you can hide.” He sent around a life insurance policy package with “text messages, emails, private communications, videos, and private legal documents.” He says, “If anything happens to me, … they have my explicit permission to release it all, detonate it all, expose all of these people in politics and in the movement who behave like this behind the scenes. It's necessary.” He cites Kanye: “Everything that Kanye said was so real. … Kanye was right” and urges to “leave me alone. Let me say what I believe, you say what you believe. Fight fair.”

I was shocked and sickened by the reaction of the ghoulish and really repulsive reaction of the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, to Charlie's death. Basically made it all about him and all about his country immediately trying to take the energy, the sadness, the grief that people felt over Charlie's murder and redirect it towards support for whatever project he's involved in. Benjamin Netanyahu is not the same as the nation of Israel at all. Bibi is despised by many people in Israel. There are huge divisions within the Israeli government. I mean, are certain parts of the intel world in Israel that do not support some things that Benjamin Netanyahu has done recently. Charlie didn't hate Jews. He loved Jews. He had tons of friends who were Jews. He loved the state of Israel. Loved going there. He did not like B. B. Netanyahu, and he said that to me many times, and he said to people around him many times. He felt that Bibi Netanyahu was a very destructive force. He was appalled by what was happening in Gaza. He was above all resentful that he believed Netanyahu was using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country, and that it was shameful and embarrassing and bad for The United States, and he resented it. There's no question that BB's defenders on the internet will call me a liar or a kook, but that's a fact. Enough text messages exist that I think it can probably be verified in pretty short order.

Charlie was loyal to people he had shared history with; he would say, "We're friends." He would never say an ill word about Candace, and if pressed to attack Tucker, he would be defiant because he didn't wanna be morally blackmailed. He remained loyal to donors and Turning Point staff and would not air any dirty laundry. He did disagree with Candace on the Israel issue and with Tucker on Israel, but "Tucker was a useful voice in the conservative movement on many things," and he invited him to events. "You could not buy him he was not bought and paid for." He loved Israel and cared about the holy Land, aware of anti-Israel sentiment on the right. He wrote to Bibi: "You are losing the PR war," signaling PR changes, including American support and opposing Islamic migration. He vented to pro-Israel peers and kept it to avoid betraying friends.

Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 address a group text shared by Kent Owens; the text grab is authentic and, though private, was released to show public frustrations and pursue justice for Charlie. They say they wanted no stone unturned in the first 33 hours of the investigation. As Turning Point USA spokesman, they caution that public statements could affect an ongoing case. Charlie's Israel views are described as nuanced and public: he cared about Israel, read a 700-page history, wanted the Gaza war to end, did not want American troops or Palestinian refugees, saw Hamas as the aggressor, and noted antisemitism rising. A Megyn Kelly clip is cited: "I love Israel. I want Israel to win." Charlie remained defiant, refusing to be cowed into deplatforming Tucker, upholding "free speech be our north star."