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Joe Rogan hosts Mike Benz, who discusses his work on internet censorship and the evolution of government involvement in controlling online narratives. Benz, a former corporate lawyer and Trump White House speechwriter, became focused on censorship after the 2016 election, which he believes marked a turning point in how the government and private sectors collaborate to suppress free speech. Benz traces the origins of modern internet censorship to 2014, during the Ukraine crisis, where the U.S. government began to actively promote censorship as a means of controlling narratives. He explains that the U.S. has a long history of promoting free speech internationally, but this shifted after the 2014 coup in Ukraine, which led to a new doctrine of hybrid warfare that included controlling media narratives. This doctrine was formalized by NATO in 2016, coinciding with the rise of populism and the election of Donald Trump, which prompted a redirection of censorship efforts back to the U.S. The discussion highlights the establishment of the Disinformation Governance Board and the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), which Benz argues were already functioning as censorship bodies before being publicly acknowledged. He emphasizes that the government has used vague definitions of misinformation to justify censorship, often conflating dissenting opinions with threats to democracy. Benz also discusses the role of various organizations, including the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and the Global Engagement Center, in promoting censorship under the guise of protecting democracy. He points out that these entities have been instrumental in shaping narratives and influencing elections globally, particularly in countries with rising populist movements. The conversation touches on the implications of censorship during the COVID-19 pandemic, where narratives around vaccines and origins of the virus were heavily monitored and suppressed. Benz argues that this period served as a proof of concept for large-scale censorship, with government and private sector entities working together to control the narrative. Benz highlights the financial incentives behind this censorship apparatus, noting that many individuals involved in government positions transition to lucrative roles in private sectors, creating a cycle of influence and profit. He cites examples of former officials who have moved to major corporations, leveraging their connections and knowledge gained while in government. The discussion concludes with Benz expressing hope for reform and transparency within these institutions, emphasizing the need for public awareness and accountability. He believes that the current political climate presents an opportunity for change, particularly with the rise of alternative platforms and growing public scrutiny of censorship practices.

Tucker Carlson emphasizes that freedom of speech is the defining characteristic of the United States, rooted in the First Amendment. He warns that this foundational right is rapidly eroding due to modern censorship, which is often justified as a fight against disinformation, regardless of the truth of the statements being censored. Carlson introduces Mike Benz, an expert on censorship, who explains how the U.S. government and defense contractors have shifted from promoting internet freedom to enforcing censorship, particularly in the context of foreign policy and military interests. Benz details how the internet was initially used to support dissidents globally, but after events like the 2014 Crimea annexation, NATO began to view media control as essential to maintaining power. This led to the establishment of a censorship industry aimed at suppressing dissenting voices, particularly those associated with right-wing populism in Europe and the U.S. Benz highlights the role of organizations like the Atlantic Council in coordinating censorship efforts, particularly during the 2020 election, where they preemptively targeted narratives around mail-in ballots. He describes the creation of the Department of Homeland Security's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, which redefined misinformation as a cyber attack, allowing for widespread censorship of dissenting opinions. Benz argues that this represents a fundamental inversion of democracy, where the will of the people is subverted in favor of protecting established institutions. He concludes by discussing the ongoing threats to free speech, particularly in the context of upcoming elections and international pressures on platforms like X (formerly Twitter).