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When the government told us vaccinated people couldn't get the virus, were they guessing or lying? There was evidence of natural reinfection during the pandemic. Since the vaccine was based on natural immunity, one can't definitively say vaccination is superior to natural infection, even if it's often slightly better. I can't rule out the possibility that the government wasn't truthful when they stated vaccinated individuals couldn't contract the virus. While I ensured my susceptible family members were vaccinated, we still used layered protection during surges, knowing vaccine immunity could wane. The hope was that the vaccine would prevent transmission. Scientists and public health leaders must clearly communicate what's known versus what's hoped. When the government said the vaccinated couldn't get it, it wasn't the truth, but possibly a guess, a lie, or just hope.

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Today, the speaker discusses the transmission and viral load of vaccinated individuals compared to unvaccinated individuals. They mention the example of Israel, where a professor from Tel Aviv hospital stated that 75% of hospitalized patients were vaccinated. The speaker argues against the narrative that vaccinated individuals are solely responsible for immunity. They emphasize that the disease has a low mortality rate and question the need for continued booster shots. The other speaker counters by stating that vaccines protect against severe forms of the virus, particularly for those under 60 years old. The conversation ends with a disagreement about the percentage of vaccinated individuals in hospitals.

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The speakers emphasize the importance of vaccination in reducing transmission and returning to normalcy. They mention that vaccinated individuals do not carry the virus or get sick. Getting vaccinated and receiving booster shots can save lives, protect loved ones, and prevent the spread of infection. The vaccines effectively stop the virus with each vaccinated person, preventing it from using them as a host to infect others. However, the speakers acknowledge that the initial data on vaccine transmission was limited, and they did not have a clear answer on whether the vaccines would stop infection. They stress the need for people to take the vaccines to break the chain of transmission.

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One speaker states that you cannot conclude vaccines will do better than natural infection, although they can often do slightly better. When asked if the government lied about vaccinated people not getting the virus, the speaker responded that they don't know about the task force's discussions. They vaccinated their susceptible family members but still used layered protection during surges, knowing vaccine immunity could wane like natural immunity, with reinfection occurring every four months in South Africa. When asked if the government's claim that the vaccine prevented transmission was a lie or a guess, the speaker said it was hope. They added that the original phase three trials only measured symptomatic disease, not proactively testing for mild or asymptomatic infections, so there was never data showing protection against asymptomatic infection. Another speaker expressed frustration that government agencies were guessing, hoping, or lying to the American people, calling them the biggest purveyors of misinformation.

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Dr. Redfield stated that over 90% of the population is still susceptible to the coronavirus. However, the other speaker disagrees, pointing out that the data used by Dr. Redfield is outdated and only accounts for the presence of antibodies. The speaker explains that there is also immunity from T cells and cross-immunity from other infections, which means that the number of people with antibodies is only a small fraction of those with immunity. When asked who to believe, the speaker emphasizes that the science supports their viewpoint and mentions several epidemiologists who share the same perspective. The conversation ends with the acknowledgement of taking a break.

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Dr. Menares and an interlocutor debate the science behind pediatric COVID vaccination and routine immunizations, focusing on transmission, hospitalization, and risk. - The interlocutor asks whether the COVID vaccine prevents transmission. Speaker 1 answer: the vaccine can reduce viral load in individuals who are infected, and with reduced viral load, there is reduced transmission. The interlocutor reframes, insisting that the vaccine does not prevent transmission and notes decreasing effectiveness over time, citing Omicron data showing around 16% reduction when there is a reduction. - On hospitalization for children 18 and under: Speaker 0 asserts the vaccine does not reduce hospitalization for 18-year-olds; statistics are inconclusive due to small numbers of hospitalizations in that age group (approximately 76 million people aged 18 in the country, with 183 deaths and a few thousand hospitalizations in 2020–2021; numbers have since dropped). The argument emphasizes a need to discuss the issue. - On death for children 18 and under: Speaker 0 says the vaccine does not reduce the death rate; claims there is no statistical evidence that it reduces deaths. Speaker 1 responds with a more cautious stance: “It can,” but Speaker 0 counters, calling that an insufficient answer. - The discussion references the vaccine approval process and ongoing debates in vaccine committees. The interlocutor states that when the vaccine was approved for six months and older, the discussion acknowledged no proof of reduction in hospitalization or death. The argument asserts that the justification for vaccination is based on antibody generation rather than clear hospitalization/death data. The interlocutor contends that immunology measurements (antibody production) do not necessarily justify vaccination frequency. - The core debate centers on what the science supports for vaccinating six-month-olds and the benefits versus risks. The interlocutor argues there is no hospitalization or death benefit for vaccination in this age group, and notes a known risk of myocarditis in younger populations, estimated somewhere between six and ten per ten thousand, which the interlocutor claims is greater than the risk of hospitalization or death being measurable. - The exchange then shifts to changing the childhood vaccine schedule, particularly the hepatitis B vaccine given to newborns when the mother is not hepatitis B positive. The interlocutor asks for the medical or scientific reason to give a hepatitis B vaccine to a newborn with an uninfected mother, arguing that the discussion should focus on whether to change the schedule rather than declaring all vaccines as good or bad. - Speaker 1 says they agreed with considering the science and would not pre-commit to approving all ACIP recommendations without the science. Speaker 0 disagrees, asserting their position that the debate should center on the medical rationale for these specific vaccines and schedules, not on a blanket endorsement of vaccines. - Throughout, the dialogue emphasizes examining the medical reasons and evidence for specific vaccines and schedules, rather than broad generalizations about vaccines.

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The speakers discuss the lack of attention given to lifestyle diseases and lifestyle medicine in relation to unvaccinated individuals. They mention that many people who end up in the ICU or die from COVID-19 have pre-existing chronic illnesses. However, not everyone with severe illness has a chronic condition, and it is difficult to predict who will become seriously ill. One speaker shares their personal experience with COVID-19 and argues that natural immunity is superior to artificial immunity from vaccines. Another speaker emphasizes the importance of getting vaccinated not only for personal health but also for the well-being of vulnerable individuals. The discussion touches on the use of recovery certificates and the effectiveness of natural immunity compared to vaccines. The speaker concludes that they will not get vaccinated because natural immunity is believed to be lifelong, unlike vaccine-induced immunity, which diminishes after a few months.

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In a study of 1,000 people in Israel, it was found that those who received two vaccine doses were 27 times more likely to get reinfected. The vaccine does not prevent infections or transmission, as seen in studies from England, Scotland, and other European countries where triple-vaccinated individuals are most likely to die. On the other hand, natural immunity from previous infections, such as SARS CoV-one, can last for 18 years and provide long-lasting and broad protection. In conclusion, natural immunity should be considered as an important factor moving forward.

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A discussion takes place about the risk assessment for a teenage male who has had COVID and is considering getting vaccinated. The speakers agree that it is not a fair risk assessment to ignore the previous COVID infection and just keep vaccinating. They mention that if a person is healthy and under 75 years old, having received three doses of an mRNA vaccine or two doses of the vaccine plus a natural infection may provide sufficient protection against severe disease for years. They also mention that some colleges and universities still have mandates for booster doses before allowing students back on campus.

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The speaker asks if there is a higher incidence of myocarditis among adolescent males aged 16 to 24 after taking the vaccine. The other speaker responds by saying that the data from the CDC shows that there is actually less myocarditis in people who get the vaccine compared to those who get COVID. The first speaker disagrees and presents six peer-reviewed papers that contradict this claim. They also mention speaking with the president who privately acknowledged the increased risk of myocarditis. The conversation then shifts to discussing the rationality of mandating three vaccines for adolescent boys and the timing of myocarditis after the second dose. The first speaker criticizes the CDC's recommendation to vaccinate individuals who have recovered from COVID and experienced myocarditis. They argue that many countries do not offer the vaccine to children unless they are at risk for severe disease. The first speaker concludes by stating that the risk and benefits of vaccination need to be weighed, and that parents are unlikely to comply with mandatory vaccination for their children.

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Doctors' fallibility and the lack of consideration for natural immunity are discussed. The conversation touches on mandatory vaccination, anecdotal evidence, and the risks and benefits of vaccines. The speakers debate the number of children who died from COVID and the importance of vaccines. They also mention the potential harm caused by vaccines and the need for individual choice. The conversation ends with a mention of the COVID vaccine's testing and the speaker's personal experience with it.

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The speaker asks if there is a higher incidence of myocarditis among boys aged 16 to 24 after taking the vaccine. The other speaker responds that the data from the CDC actually show that there is less risk of myocarditis for those who get the vaccine compared to those who get COVID infection. The first speaker clarifies if they are saying that males in the 16 to 24 age group who take the vaccine have a lower risk of myocarditis than those who contract the disease. The second speaker confirms this.

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During a meeting, Dr. Fauci and four others discussed whether natural immunity should be recognized. The attendees had similar views on mandates and other policies. The vote ended in a tie, so Dr. Fauci chose to align with the government's stance. According to the government, only antibodies from the vaccine are acknowledged, while those from natural immunity are not recognized.

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A study in Israel found that individuals who received two vaccine doses were 27 times more likely to get reinfected, indicating that vaccines do not effectively stop infection or transmission. Research from England, Scotland, and northern Europe shows that those who are triple vaccinated may have a higher risk of death. In contrast, natural immunity is shown to be long-lasting and robust, with evidence from SARS CoV-1 patients who retained immunity for 18 years. Therefore, natural immunity should be legally recognized as at least equal to vaccinated immunity, and it is likely to be lifelong.

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Mr. Becerra, the speaker questions his knowledge of an Israeli study involving 2.5 million patients. The study reportedly found that the vaccinated group was seven times more likely to get infected with COVID compared to those who had recovered from the virus naturally. The speaker criticizes Mr. Becerra for insulting Americans who have had COVID and made their own decision about their immunity. He accuses Mr. Becerra of arrogance and authoritarianism, highlighting his lack of medical or scientific background. The speaker argues that numerous scientific studies demonstrate robust and long-lasting immunity after COVID infection. He urges Mr. Becerra to apologize for being dishonest about naturally acquired immunity and expresses a shared desire to increase vaccination rates and reduce hesitancy.

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The speakers discuss the need for vaccines to combat the spread of the virus. They mention that traditional vaccines require booster shots to increase protection over time, but it is uncertain if the same applies to the RNA vaccines. They mention the possibility of a fourth dose and the uncertainty surrounding the duration of immunity. They acknowledge that the situation with the virus is unique and express a tolerance for doubts and questions.

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Speaker 0 expresses clear personal hesitation about vaccines, stating that they are not jabbed and would not touch the experimental mRNA and gene therapy experiments, asserting there is a lot of concern about these technologies from many medical people. They reference political figures and media narratives, saying Kennedy in the United States will expose much of this material and that Donald Trump is keen to see it as well. Speaker 0 then recalls personal health concerns related to vaccination, mentioning friends who have experienced myocarditis, blood clots, strokes, and other problems after receiving the COVID jab, and emphasizes the idea of long-term effects being unknown. Speaker 1 counters by saying they still believe in vaccinations, but notes that no one on that side would discuss possible problems with vaccines, and they themselves got vaccinated multiple times and are now open to the idea that there might have been problems. They acknowledge the complexity of the issue and state they do not object to vaccines inherently. Speaker 0 clarifies their stance further, stating they are not a medical expert but their instinct was not to have the vaccine, and they acknowledge how difficult it was to avoid it since the state appeared to force people to receive it. Speaker 1 adds that their own vaccination status includes having been vaxxed several times, and they feel okay today, though they recognize the complexity of the situation and that long-term effects are uncertain. Speaker 0 then discusses the notion that the state and public health authorities pressured people to vaccinate, naming the NHS, Matt Hancock, and portraying the messaging as a duty to vaccinate “because you might kill granny,” mentioning Trudeau and the World Economic Forum Brigade as part of the broader narrative. Speaker 0 proposes an alternative approach: those who are vulnerable should isolate themselves. They reference Anders Tegnell’s approach in Sweden, which did not impose lockdowns. They claim Sweden’s economy hardly missed a heartbeat, in contrast to “ours,” and argue that the pandemic greatly disrupted young people’s lives and education, with knock-on effects described as huge. Speaker 0 concludes that those who made the lockdown decisions are not ready to admit they got it wrong, for a host of reasons.

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Speaker 0 advises getting the shot, but it's optional. Speaker 1 agrees to get it and wear a mask. Speaker 0 plans to get the shot but won't wear a mask. Speaker 2 is surprised and asks how many shots Speaker 0 has had. Speaker 0 mentions having had six shots so far and will soon get the seventh. They also mention having had COVID three times.

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The speaker questions whether the government was guessing or lying when they said that vaccinated individuals couldn't get the virus. The other speaker, who was part of the previous administration, acknowledges that there was evidence of natural reinfection during the global pandemic and that the vaccine was based on natural immunity. They suggest that the vaccine may not necessarily outperform natural infection. The first speaker then asks if the government was lying when they said the vaccine couldn't transmit the virus, to which the second speaker responds that it was more of a hopeful belief. The first speaker concludes that the government's statements were not truthful, leaving the options of guessing, lying, or hoping as possible explanations.

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The speaker mentions being part of a meeting in February 2021 where the administration considered allowing individuals who had been naturally infected with COVID-19 to be exempt from vaccination mandates. They believed that natural infection could provide protection against severe disease. However, the administration decided against this idea due to bureaucratic concerns and the need for individuals to prove their natural infection status. The speaker suggests that people could potentially obtain fake PCR positivity cards to bypass this requirement.

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When someone is naturally immune to COVID-19, they likely have more antibodies against the virus compared to those who received the vaccine. The vaccine only targets a specific part of the virus, whereas natural infection triggers the production of antibodies against multiple parts of the virus. This suggests that natural immunity may provide better protection than the vaccine. It is important to be cautious when discussing this topic publicly, as there is a prevailing belief that the vaccine is safer. Having proof of antibodies can be helpful in certain situations. One person expresses concerns about working for an organization that benefits financially from the pandemic, while another mentions signing non-disclosure agreements.

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In a study of 1,000 people in Israel, it was found that those who received two vaccine doses were 27 times more likely to get reinfected. The vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission. Similar studies in England, Scotland, and other European countries show that triple vaccinated individuals are most likely to die. Natural immunity, on the other hand, is long-lasting, wide-ranging, and durable. There are cases of SARS CoV-one patients still having immunity 18 years later. Therefore, natural immunity should be legally considered equal to vaccinated immunity, and it is likely to last a lifetime.

The Megyn Kelly Show

COVID Numbers Game & Toxicity of Big Tech | Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Vivek Ramaswamy, & Scott Galloway
Guests: Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Vivek Ramaswamy, Scott Galloway
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Megan Kelly opens the show discussing a new COVID study that suggests nearly half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 may not be as sick as previously believed, with many being admitted for unrelated reasons. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, a Stanford professor and co-author of the Great Barrington Declaration, explains that hospitalizations are overstated due to financial incentives from the CARES Act, which provided hospitals with bonuses for COVID diagnoses. He emphasizes the need for the media to provide context around COVID statistics to alleviate public fear. The discussion reveals that 25% of COVID deaths may have other contributing factors, and many hospitalized patients have mild or asymptomatic cases. The study indicates that 57% of vaccinated patients hospitalized had mild symptoms, while 45% of unvaccinated patients were also mild or asymptomatic. Bhattacharya argues that the media often misrepresents hospitalization data, leading to unnecessary panic. Megan and Dr. Bhattacharya also touch on the conflicting studies regarding natural immunity versus vaccine-induced immunity, with Bhattacharya asserting that natural immunity provides strong protection against severe disease. He criticizes public health messaging that fails to acknowledge the benefits of natural immunity and the need for vaccine mandates to consider those who have recovered from COVID. Vivek Ramaswamy joins the conversation, discussing his departure from corporate America to speak out against what he sees as the ideological monopoly of big tech and stakeholder capitalism. He argues that corporations are increasingly acting as political entities, suppressing dissenting views and aligning with government agendas. Ramaswamy highlights the need for accountability in big tech and suggests that they should be treated as state actors when they coordinate with the government to censor speech. Scott Galloway later joins the show, discussing the decline of young men in college and the impact of social media on mental health. He emphasizes the need for more competition in the tech space to counteract the negative effects of social media on youth. Galloway also critiques the education system, arguing that it has become a mechanism for reinforcing social stratification rather than providing equal opportunities. The conversation shifts to the influence of China, with Galloway noting that China is learning from the U.S. and taking steps to control its tech companies to prevent them from undermining national interests. He highlights the need for the U.S. to recognize the challenges posed by China and the importance of maintaining a competitive edge. Overall, the discussions cover the complexities of COVID-19 statistics, the role of big tech in shaping public discourse, the challenges facing young men in education, and the geopolitical implications of China's rise.

The Peter Attia Drive Podcast

COVID-19: Current state of affairs, Omicron, and a search for the end game | Peter Attia, M.D.
Guests: Marty Makary, Zubin Damania
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In this episode of The Drive podcast, host Peter Attia welcomes Dr. Marty Makary and Dr. Zubin Damania to discuss the evolving landscape of COVID-19, particularly focusing on the Omicron variant, vaccines, natural immunity, and public health policies. Attia expresses frustration with the current state of COVID science and messaging, prompting the discussion. The conversation begins with an overview of Omicron, highlighting that it appears to be less severe than previous variants like Delta, based on laboratory and epidemiological data. Makary explains that Omicron does not infect lung cells as efficiently, leading to milder symptoms primarily affecting the upper respiratory tract. Damania raises the question of whether the perceived mildness of Omicron is influenced by the high levels of natural and vaccine-induced immunity in the population. Attia and his guests explore the implications of distinguishing between pandemic and endemic states, questioning whether COVID-19 could become a seasonal virus similar to other coronaviruses. They discuss the potential for Omicron to act as a natural vaccine for many, particularly in low-resource settings where access to vaccines is limited. The discussion shifts to vaccines, particularly mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna, and their associated risks, including myocarditis in younger populations. Makary emphasizes the importance of understanding natural immunity, which has been downplayed in public health messaging. He cites studies showing that natural immunity may provide robust protection against reinfection, raising concerns about the lack of acknowledgment from health authorities. The hosts critique the current public health approach, which they feel has become overly rigid and dogmatic, particularly regarding vaccine mandates for young people. They argue for a more nuanced understanding of risk, especially for healthy children, and advocate for a focus on individual risk factors rather than blanket policies. Attia highlights the importance of measuring outcomes that matter, such as hospitalizations and deaths, rather than solely focusing on infection rates. He questions the sustainability of widespread testing and the impact of policies that may not align with the current understanding of COVID-19. Throughout the conversation, the hosts express a desire for more open dialogue and critical thinking in public health discussions, emphasizing the need for humility and adaptability in the face of new information. They call for an end to mandates that do not consider the evolving nature of the virus and the population's immunity. In conclusion, the episode underscores the importance of balancing public health measures with individual freedoms and the need for a more rational approach to managing COVID-19 as it transitions to an endemic state. The hosts encourage listeners to engage in thoughtful discussions about the future of public health and the lessons learned from the pandemic.

Mind Pump Show

1642: COVID Vaccine Skepticism?
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In this episode of Mind Pump, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews engage in a controversial discussion about the fitness and health industry's skepticism towards vaccine recommendations, particularly in light of COVID-19. They highlight that the industry has historically pushed back against various health recommendations from the government and pharmaceutical sectors, citing past inconsistencies in dietary advice, such as the food pyramid and misconceptions about fats and cholesterol. The hosts emphasize that skepticism arises from a long history of conflicting health information, leading fitness professionals to question new mandates. They discuss the importance of data, noting that while vaccines reduce the risk of severe symptoms and hospitalization, natural immunity from prior infections may offer stronger protection. They also point out that many individuals in the health space feel confident in managing their health through lifestyle choices, which influences their views on vaccination. The conversation touches on the politicization of health topics and the pressure on influencers to take stances, stressing the need for objective analysis of data. Ultimately, they argue that the fitness and health community's skepticism is rooted in a desire for informed decision-making based on historical experiences and current evidence.
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