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Megyn Kelly hosts a discussion on transitioning and de-transitioning, featuring Walt Heyer and Grace Ladinsky-Smith, both of whom regret their transitions. Walt transitioned to Laura Jensen in his forties but de-transitioned after realizing he needed therapy for childhood trauma rather than surgery. He recounts how adverse childhood experiences, including emotional and sexual abuse, influenced his decision to transition. He emphasizes that many individuals who transition may be dealing with unresolved trauma rather than genuine gender dysphoria. Grace, who began questioning her gender in her twenties, underwent a double mastectomy and hormone therapy but later recognized her mistake. She describes her experience as being influenced by social media and a mental health crisis, leading her to believe that transitioning would resolve her issues. Both Walt and Grace face backlash from trans activists for sharing their stories, highlighting the societal pressure to affirm transitions without exploring underlying psychological issues. The conversation shifts to the medical perspective, with Dr. Julia Mason and Dr. Erica Anderson discussing the implications of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones. They outline significant risks associated with these treatments, including bone density issues, cognitive effects, and irreversible changes to sexual function. They express concern over the lack of thorough evaluations before medical interventions are prescribed, noting that many young people may be seeking transition as a solution to broader psychological problems. The discussion also touches on the increasing number of young girls identifying as trans and the potential societal factors influencing this trend. Both doctors advocate for a more cautious approach, emphasizing the need for individualized assessments and addressing underlying mental health issues rather than rushing into medical treatments. They call for a systematic review of the scientific evidence surrounding these practices, similar to actions taken in countries like Sweden and Finland, which have begun to reassess their approaches to gender-affirming care for minors.

Chris Moritz discusses the financial aspects of what he terms "Transgender Inc.," highlighting the $7.5 billion market for sex reassignment surgeries and hormone therapies. He notes the absence of long-term studies on the efficacy of these treatments, particularly for minors, and emphasizes the invasive nature of procedures like vaginoplasty, which can lead to irreversible loss of sexual function. The number of transgender youth has doubled in five years, raising concerns about the medical community's approach, which often relies on guidelines from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH). Moritz argues that the shift in defining gender dysphoria from a mental illness to a condition requiring medical intervention has facilitated this trend. He points out the financial incentives for healthcare systems and pharmaceutical companies, with significant revenue generated from surgeries. Moritz warns of the potential long-term health consequences of hormone treatments and the societal implications of these medical practices.

Dr. Jared Ross, affiliated with the organization Do No Harm, discusses alarming findings regarding gender-affirming treatments for minors in the U.S. Their recent database revealed that between 2019 and 2023, approximately 14,000 minors underwent sex change treatments across nearly 2,000 hospitals, including 6,000 surgeries and 63,000 prescriptions for cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers, amounting to $120 million in insurance claims. Ross criticizes the medical community for endorsing these treatments, arguing that minors cannot provide informed consent and that these practices represent a significant moral failing. He highlights the psychological and physical harm inflicted on vulnerable children, particularly those from broken homes or with histories of abuse. Ross emphasizes that the medical profession has become complicit in a "growth industry" focused on gender transition, often prioritizing profit over patient welfare. He calls for a reevaluation of these practices, suggesting that the medical community has failed to self-regulate and that such surgeries should be banned. The organization aims to raise awareness and mobilize public action against these treatments, urging people to visit their website for more information and involvement.

In the last decade, there has been a significant increase in teenage girls without prior gender dysphoria identifying as transgender, often influenced by peers and social media. Between 2016 and 2017, requests for gender surgeries among young women in the U.S. quadrupled. Abigail Shrier, author of *Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters*, discusses this alarming trend, emphasizing the lack of medical oversight in the current affirmative care model, which encourages doctors to affirm a teenager's self-diagnosis without thorough evaluation. Shrier highlights that many of these girls, often from supportive backgrounds, are experiencing mental health issues and find validation in transitioning. She argues that the current medical regime lacks safeguards, leading to potentially irreversible decisions made by young individuals. The influence of social media and the allure of being part of an oppressed minority contribute to this phenomenon. Parents, particularly those who are politically progressive, often feel helpless and fear losing custody if they question their child's decision to transition. Shrier notes that many parents are blindsided by the rapid changes in their children's identities and the aggressive push from activists and educators. The conversation around gender identity has become a cultural battleground, with significant implications for women's rights and the experiences of transgender individuals.

Jordan Peterson interviews Abigail Shrier, author of "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters." Shrier explains she wrote the book after a mother reached out about her daughter, who transitioned to transgender without prior symptoms of gender dysphoria. Shrier highlights a surge in teenage girls identifying as transgender, claiming this demographic shift is unprecedented and likening it to an epidemic. She notes that traditional gender dysphoria primarily affected boys, but now teenage girls are the leading demographic, often influenced by social media and peer pressure. Shrier criticizes the affirmative care model adopted by major psychological associations, which she argues lacks medical judgment and oversight. She expresses concern that therapists are compelled to affirm a patient's self-diagnosis without thorough investigation. Shrier cites a significant increase in young women seeking gender transition, with statistics indicating a rise from 0.01% to 2% among high school students identifying as transgender. The conversation touches on the role of social media in shaping identity and the potential for psychological contagion among adolescents. Shrier argues that many girls are encouraged to falsify their narratives about gender dysphoria, complicating the diagnostic process. She also discusses the long-term risks associated with medical transition, including irreversible changes from testosterone and surgeries like double mastectomy, which she claims lack adequate medical oversight. Shrier emphasizes the need for scrutiny in medical practices surrounding gender transition, advocating for a more cautious approach to treatment. She reflects on the backlash she has faced for her views, asserting that the truth must be prioritized over ideological commitments. The interview concludes with a call for open discussion and critical examination of the current trends in gender identity treatment.

J. Michael Bailey discusses the retraction of his article on Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) from the *Archives of Sexual Behavior*, attributing it to pressure from transgender activists rather than academic misconduct. He claims the retraction has increased the article's visibility, with nearly 100,000 downloads. The article, co-authored with Susanna Diaz, explores a surge in gender dysphoria cases, particularly among adolescent girls with pre-existing mental health issues, who suddenly identify as transgender. Bailey argues that many of these girls demand serious medical treatments, often leading to worsened mental health after social transition. He contrasts two theories explaining the rise in transgender identification: increased societal acceptance and social contagion, particularly among females. Bailey emphasizes the need for further research on ROGD and plans a new study with Lisa Littman and Ken Zucker to gather extensive data on gender dysphoric adolescents. He also touches on the complexities of sexual orientation, paraphilias, and societal influences on gender identity, advocating for open discussion and research in these areas.

In a conversation between Joe Rogan and Abigail Shrier, they discuss Shrier's book, "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters," which addresses the rising trend of teenage girls identifying as transgender. Shrier emphasizes that her concerns are not about adult transgender individuals, whom she supports, but rather about young girls who may be influenced by social media and peer groups to transition without fully understanding the implications. Shrier recounts how she became involved in this topic after hearing from parents whose daughters suddenly identified as transgender after experiencing mental health issues. She notes that many of these girls are high-achieving but socially isolated, leading them to seek identity through transitioning. Shrier highlights the alarming increase in teenage girls seeking hormone treatments and surgeries, citing a study by Lisa Littman that found a significant rise in such cases, particularly among friend groups. The discussion touches on the influence of social media, which Shrier argues exacerbates mental health issues among young girls, leading them to view transitioning as a solution to their problems. She points out that many girls who transition do not have a history of gender dysphoria and may be influenced by trends rather than genuine feelings of being in the wrong body. Rogan and Shrier also discuss the lack of medical oversight in the transitioning process, with Shrier noting that some clinics allow minors to access hormones without thorough psychological evaluation. They express concern about the long-term effects of hormone treatments and surgeries, particularly for those who may later regret their decisions. Shrier argues that the current approach to transgender issues often overlooks the complexities of adolescent mental health and the potential for social contagion, where young girls may adopt transgender identities as a response to peer dynamics. She calls for a more nuanced discussion that considers the mental health of these girls and the societal pressures they face. The conversation also addresses the backlash against those who question the prevailing narratives around transgender issues, with Shrier sharing her experiences of being criticized for her views. Both Rogan and Shrier emphasize the importance of open dialogue and the need to protect young people from making irreversible decisions without adequate support and information. Ultimately, Shrier advocates for a careful examination of the factors influencing young girls' decisions to transition and the potential consequences of those decisions, urging society to prioritize the mental health and well-being of these adolescents.

Michael Shellenberger discusses the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) and the release of internal documents revealing troubling practices regarding gender dysphoria treatment. He argues that WPATH lacks evidence-based support for radical interventions like puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and irreversible surgeries. The documents show discussions about treating minors, including a 13-year-old with developmental delays, raising concerns about informed consent and the long-term consequences of such treatments. Shellenberger describes the situation as one of the greatest medical mistreatment scandals in history, comparable to lobotomies and the Tuskegee experiments. He emphasizes that many medical professionals involved seem to be aware of the lack of informed consent but continue their practices without questioning their validity. He criticizes the medical and psychological associations for their complicity, suggesting they prioritize ideology over patient welfare. He highlights the confusion between gender distress and broader emotional issues like anxiety and depression, arguing that many who express gender confusion may simply be experiencing identity crises. He points out that most children with gender dysphoria will likely identify as gay if left alone until adulthood. The conversation also touches on the societal implications of these practices, including the role of maternal instincts in decision-making and the potential for political and ideological manipulation. Shellenberger calls for accountability, suggesting that those who have transitioned minors should lose their licenses and face legal consequences. He notes recent shifts in public opinion, citing the UK's National Health Service's ban on puberty blockers, as a sign that awareness and resistance to these practices are growing. The discussion concludes with a call for a return to values that affirm human development and the importance of protecting children's rights to grow up without medical intervention.