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Andy Lowry’s appearance on the Shawn Ryan Show centers on Epirus and its Leonitis system, a high-powered, field-ready counter-electronics and counter-drone solution built to create a protective electromagnetic bubble around critical assets. The conversation covers how Leonitis uses a large, phased array of gallium nitride elements to generate a directed energy field that can disrupt or disable drones and other electronic systems at close range. The hosts and guest discuss the evolution from an RF transmitter concept to a full “system of systems” approach, including integrated sensing, radar, electro-optical and infrared targeting, and a software-driven command-and-control stack. Lowry explains the shift from traditional defense primes to nimble neo-primes that move quickly, prototype rapidly, and use simulation tools to test layered defenses, much like a tower-defense game, to validate protection schemes before field deployment. He emphasizes the importance of a multi-layered defense, where Leonitis acts as a last-line goalie that can complement radar and kinetic systems, handle swarms and leakers, and scale from small, platoon-level units to larger, building- and base-scale installations. The episode also touches on deployment realities, including ITAR constraints, wartime needs accelerating procurement, and the strategic value of mobility with the AGV-enabled Epirus vehicle. Throughout, the narrative contrasts the agility and iterative innovation of smaller defense tech firms with the slower procurement processes of larger primes and the broader strategic implications for homeland security, military bases, embassies, and even potentially strategic chokepoints like airfields and ports. The discussion frames ongoing battlefield shifts in drone warfare, the economics of shooting down drones (cost-per-shot versus system cost), and the potential for such technologies to reshape how protection is organized in high-threat environments, while acknowledging the non-panacea nature of any single solution and the necessity of a layered, globally coordinated defense posture.

In this episode of Relentless, Michael LaFramboise, cofounder of Aurelius, discusses a future dominated by mass drone warfare and why traditional missile defenses are unsustainable as drone swarms grow. He explains their pivot to laser-based directed energy weapons that can destroy drones at a tiny marginal cost, arguing that electricity to power the laser is far cheaper than expensive missiles. The conversation covers why counter-UAS is lagging behind drone proliferation and how Aurelius is building a scalable defense network capable of autonomously detecting and neutralizing drones with a “silent” hard kill that minimizes collateral damage and avoids public alarm. LaFramboise delves into the evolution of drone warfare, citing Ukraine, Red Sea incidents, and the sheer dominance of Chinese drone production. He emphasizes the need to shift defense industrial strategy from a missile-centric model to a distributed, cost-effective laser network, capable of defending critical infrastructure and forward bases. The discussion broadens to the defense ecosystem, the role of government partners, and the ongoing shift toward autonomy across land, sea, and air. They detail Aurelius’s roadmap from small, mobile counter-UAS turrets to larger, higher-power systems that could eventually address strategic threats in space, while stressing the importance of domestic laser manufacturing in the United States. The interview also chronicles the founder’s personal journey from a challenging upbringing in Detroit and Alaska to a career in engineering, sales, and startups. He candidly reflects on his early struggles, pivotal moments that pushed him to drop out and pursue a laser startup, and the brutal realities of fundraising in defense tech. The conversation reveals a pragmatic founder who prioritizes execution, partnerships, talent selection, and a relentless work ethic. It closes with a look at production plans in Detroit, the procurement landscape, and how Aurelius plans to deploy and scale quickly in a market that’s increasingly receptive to defense innovation.

The episode centers on Emil Michael, the Under Secretary of War for Research and Engineering, who discusses the Pentagon’s approach to modern warfare, autonomous weapons, and the evolving role of AI in national security. The conversation covers recent U.S. and allied actions in the Middle East, including the Iran operation, and explains the administration’s emphasis on avoiding boots-on-the-ground deployments while pursuing strategic achievements such as disabling the regime’s capacity to fund and supply militant groups. Emil emphasizes that the mission is framed as weeks, not months, with a target to reduce capability gaps and dissuade adversaries by demonstrating precision, speed, and overwhelming force when necessary. The dialogue then shifts to how technology shapes future combat—particularly drones, AI-enabled targeting, and autonomous systems. Emil outlines a multi-layer approach to defense, combining space, air, land, sea, and cyber assets, and describes a “drone dominance” program to field low-cost, capable unmanned systems. He explains that AI will play a growing role in edge-level operations, from automatic target recognition to coordinating drone swarms, while stressing the need for robust human oversight and clearly defined rules of engagement to minimize civilian risk. The panel probes how policy, ethics, and national security intersect in the private AI sector, with Emil recounting tense negotiations with Anthropic about lawful use, model governance, and the risk of supply-chain dependence. He argues for diversified, multi-model redundancy to guard against unilateral changes by a single provider, and he highlights the critical importance of a reliable partner capable of operating under classified constraints. Throughout, the hosts explore broader questions about China’s strategic posture, energy markets, and the global implications of technologically enhanced warfare, including how breakthroughs in defense tech could reshape geopolitics, industry funding, and domestic manufacturing. The discussion also briefly touches on the potential for space-based sensors, hypersonics, and the evolving defense industrial base, while acknowledging the role of allies such as Israel and the importance of a capable, ethical, and predictable national security framework.

Palmer Luckey discusses a range of topics with Joe Rogan, beginning with quirky tech setups like underwater VR coding rigs and the benefits of float tanks for mental clarity and focus. Luckey recounts his early ventures into virtual reality, starting with building VR headset prototypes as a teenager and eventually founding Oculus, which he later sold to Facebook. He shares anecdotes about working with John Carmack, a childhood hero, and the surprising fitness aspects of VR gaming, particularly boxing games and Beat Saber. The conversation shifts to the potential of VR in combat training, with Luckey mentioning Logan and Jake Paul's use of VR for boxing. They explore the idea of AI-controlled robots emulating famous fighters, even sparring partners with controlled force. This leads to a broader discussion about the flaws of the human body in combat and the design of robots for the Department of Defense, which Luckey is involved in. He touches on the philosophical implications of AI and its potential self-perception, drawing parallels to humanity's creation in God's image. The podcast delves into the topic of UAPs and potential alien life, with Luckey expressing skepticism about easily explained phenomena like drones. He shares his thoughts on a recent NASA release regarding biosignatures and the need for multiple sensor confirmations in UAP sightings. The conversation touches on a famous alien encounter in Varginha, Brazil, and Luckey's personal ambition to investigate such phenomena after retirement, envisioning a privately funded X-Files operation. Luckey criticizes government spending on defense, highlighting inefficiencies and waste. He praises the new Secretary of the Army for cutting wasteful programs and promoting innovation. The discussion extends to the competitive landscape with countries like China, where government and private companies are closely integrated. Luckey emphasizes the importance of competing entities and accountability in national security programs, cautioning against private companies dictating foreign policy. The conversation shifts to social and political issues, including censorship and cultural differences in the UK and China. Luckey shares a personal story about early internet forum moderation and the cultural acceptance of policing offensive content in the UK. He and Rogan discuss the lack of political power and the resulting cynicism in countries like China and Russia. They also touch on the power of media and propaganda, citing examples from the Ukraine war and past US interventions. Luckey expresses concerns about China's manufacturing capabilities and the potential threat to the US automotive industry. He advocates for the US to become more competitive by lowering energy and resource extraction costs. The discussion touches on protectionist policies and the need for the US to innovate and compete effectively. The conversation shifts to the potential for conflict with China over Taiwan, with Luckey advocating for the US to become the 'world's gun store' and arm allies to defend themselves. Luckey introduces his company's new product, Eagle Eye, an integrated ballistic helmet with augmented reality capabilities for military use. He explains the various features, including night vision, thermal sensors, gunshot detection, and the ability to share a view of the world with other soldiers and robots. He emphasizes the importance of lightweight, integrated designs and the potential for AI-powered fighter jets to revolutionize air combat. He also touches on the potential for laser weapons and the need for modular protective measures. The podcast concludes with a discussion about simulation theory, the nature of reality, and the potential for genetically engineering animals to be more intelligent. Luckey shares his thoughts on the role of a higher creator and the human desire to create things in our own image. He and Rogan discuss the importance of seeking novelty and the potential for nostalgia to inform future innovation. Luckey also touches on the importance of ethical considerations in weapons development and the need for competent and ethical people to be involved in the process.

The episode takes listeners on a guided tour of Skydio’s headquarters, highlighting how autonomous, networked drones are reshaping public safety, infrastructure inspection, and industrial operations. The hosts and CEO Adam Bry discuss drones that operate 24/7 from docks, with software that plans missions, avoids collisions, and adapts to wind, rain, and complex environments. The interview underscores the shift from manual piloting to cloud-like drone infrastructure, where customers interact with intuitive interfaces to commission missions, monitor real-time data, and benefit from rapid feedback loops between hardware testing and customer deployments. Demonstrations cover indoor and outdoor capabilities, including an indoor R10 designed for confined spaces and a fixed-wing F10 for long-range, high-speed work. The conversation emphasizes safety, transparency, and collaboration with agencies, illustrating how autonomous drones become force multipliers that deliver timely intelligence during emergencies while reducing risk to human operators.

Zipline’s headquarters tour centers on a highly automated, rapidly scaling drone delivery network that the hosts describe as the company’s core competitive advantage. The conversation highlights a large, integrated operation where design, manufacturing, software, and flight operations are tightly linked, enabling fast iteration and constant updates across the fleet. The Rock, Zipline’s Remote Operating Command Center, is shown as the nerve center for flights across the US, with live dashboards tracking uptime, site performance, and real-time deliveries. The hosts explain how autonomous drones are supervised by humans, not piloted directly, and how Zipline has built a comprehensive testing regime that includes hardware-in-the-loop simulations, tens of thousands of simulated flights, and global software updates every six weeks to ensure safety and reliability before deployment. The dialogue emphasizes the end-to-end control Zipline maintains over components, software, and supply chain, which supports precise tracking, traceability, and rapid scaling as more sites come online. A substantial portion of the visit delves into manufacturing—carbon-fiber primary structures, battery and avionics, motor design, and the line’s ability to produce and test 700 distinct components—and the company’s philosophy of validating every part through accelerated life-cycle testing, vibration rigs, and extreme conditions to minimize risk in real-world operation. The episode conveys a culture of pushing engineering velocity while prioritizing neighborhood safety, quiet operation, and user-friendly experiences for customers and families watching from the Ground, including the idea of a future where observer-friendly aesthetics and streamlined operations dominate the market, much like a next-gen factory ecosystem where software, hardware, and logistics are inseparable.