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In Israel, there is evidence of casualties and grieving families, leading to growing frustration with the government. Some people are leaving the country due to concerns about underground forces and unknown supply routes. The speaker warns against starting another conflict with neighboring countries, particularly Lebanon, who have combat experience and knowledge of the terrain. The speaker reflects on their own past arrogance and urges Israel to pursue peace negotiations and restore dignity to Palestinians. They predict that Israel will lose territory in this conflict.

Israel may need to send troops into Gaza to deal with Hamas. Concerns about Hezbollah attacking from Lebanon with rockets are high. The speaker suggests holding Iran accountable if Hezbollah attacks Israel, even threatening to destroy Iranian refineries. The speaker emphasizes supporting Israel and criticizing Saudi Arabia and Qatar for blaming Israel for the conflict.

The discussion opens by critiquing mainstream media narratives about Iran, contrasting them with “neocon run” outlets and highlighting one-sided portrayals. Condoleezza Rice is cited as arguing that Iran started the war forty-seven years ago, with the implication that the current actions are a finish. Speaker 1 (a guest) adds that Iran has been at war with the U.S. since 1979, noting the embassy hostage crisis, the killings of Marines in Lebanon, and Iranian-made roadside bombs in Iraq, suggesting longstanding Iranian hostility. Speaker 0 and others reference this framing as propagandistic, while noting Pentagon claims of US air power over Iran. Speaker 2 describes the view of US bombers flying over Tehran and the IRGC, with the assertion that Iran will be unable to respond while US and Israeli air power dominates. Talk then shifts to the possibility of US boots on the ground in Iran. Polymarket is cited, giving a 65% probability of US forces on the ground in Iran by December 31. Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi (spelled Ogracchi in the transcript) says he is waiting for a US ground invasion and claims Iran is prepared, while an NBC anchor appears surprised by the statement. A dialogue follows with a reporter asking an Iranian interviewee whether Iran is ready for a US invasion; the interviewee responds that Iran is ready and willing to confront US ground forces, insisting that Iran’s missiles and upgraded capabilities were demonstrated in prior conflicts. Colonel Douglas MacGregor appears to discuss the likelihood of US boots on the ground. He states zero probability of large-scale ground forces, noting the army’s reduced size since the 1990s and the Marines’ limited numbers. He argues a half-million troops would be needed for a meaningful ground campaign, with sustainment, drones, and missiles making a ground invasion impractical. He describes the challenge of moving forces through Israel, Syria, and into northern Iran, and asserts missiles and unmanned systems would deter such an operation. He also dismisses the idea that special operations could be the exception, noting concerns about extraction and the overall feasibility. Speaker 6 adds that Israel reportedly wants boots on the ground but lacks generals to lead such a mission, framing the move as potentially suicidal. The panel discusses perceived indicators of US military “success,” but MacGregor cautions that such signals—like a White House meeting with aerospace leaders and Israeli mobilizations—do not necessarily indicate a decisive victory. He argues that Iranian missiles and drones have inflicted damage on bases, radars, Patriot and THAAD batteries, and that Israel’s mobility and readiness are strained, with reservists mobilized but not guaranteed to show up. He emphasizes that Iran’s capabilities could prolong the conflict, and notes a broader geopolitical risk, including potential Russian and Chinese involvement. The conversation critiques Washington’s strategic planning, questioning whether the US or its allies had a systematic analysis of the likelihood of success in striking Iran, arguing that assumptions were evidence-free. MacGregor predicts a prolonged conflict, possibly extending for weeks, and warns against a broader regional collapse. He emphasizes that Iran’s strategy may be to endure and avoid a quick tactical defeat, while the US contemplates escalation or potential engagement with carrier groups. Regarding naval operations, there is debate about escorting ships through the Strait of Hormuz. The idea of US insurers covering shipping is discussed, with concerns about the risk to US taxpayers and the feasibility of naval escorts near Iran. MacGregor and the others argue that such an approach would be dangerous and unlikely to be pursued by naval leadership, pointing to the risk of being sunk and the logistical challenges of carrier air operations at long distances. Toward the end, the participants reflect on information integrity in wartime, noting that casualties and damage are often under- or mis-reported, and referencing Napoleon’s adage that the first casualty in war is the truth. The final segment promotes MacGregor’s Substack piece, MacGregor Warrior, and MacGregor TV, acknowledging shadow bans and encouraging listeners to seek out his material. The host and guests close with a candid acknowledgment of ongoing uncertainty and the prospect of a drawn-out conflict.

The region is currently facing its greatest danger in years. There is a credible threat of an attack by Hezbollah and other Iranian allies, potentially leading to a nuclear war. Israel, in response, could defend itself using all available weapons, including nuclear capabilities. This situation is extremely perilous.

No country seems willing or able to stand up to Israel, including the United States. The Biden administration's support for Israel is losing him support, especially among young people. Even within the Democratic Party, there is division over this issue, with protests and opposition from members of Congress. The left wants to restrain Israel but is unable to do so. Israel's number one enemy, Iran, also fails to challenge them effectively. With no country able to stand up to Israel, it raises the question of whether Israel is the most powerful country in the world.

Hamas is stronger despite Israel's belief that they dealt them a decisive blow. The Israeli government's goal to wipe out Hamas seems unlikely without a significant change in their approach towards Palestinians. The government's focus on controlling the land exclusively for Jewish people, rather than ensuring security, fuels the ideology of violent resistance. Seeking revenge on Hamas will only strengthen them and perpetuate the cycle of violence. This will ultimately radicalize another generation of young Palestinians. The lack of an alternative solution from the government contributes to this ongoing problem.

If Israel faces annihilation, they might use their nukes. Iran and Hezbollah need to understand they cannot wipe out the Israeli people. If Israel is about to be totally destroyed, they need to be thinking about all their options. The US military being stretched is not Israel's fault. The US should fund its military and not treat it like a secondary agency. This country has a lot of problems, but that's not on the head of the Israeli people who are trying to survive. When the US looks weak, violence and threats increase. Israel's gotta do what it's gotta do.

The path to peace over the past 50 years has centered on a two-state solution, establishing a Palestinian state alongside Israel, with East Jerusalem as its capital. This approach is rooted in international law, yet Israel's current leadership opposes it, influenced by illegal settlers. The enforcement of international law is crucial for peace, but the U.S. and the Israel lobby hinder this process. Israel faces significant challenges, including the Palestinian issue, Hezbollah, and Iran. Military intervention from neighboring countries is unlikely if Israel escalates actions in the West Bank. The real danger lies in potential conflict with Iran, which could involve the U.S. Israel seeks U.S. support to weaken Iran militarily, especially concerning its nuclear capabilities. The future of U.S.-Iran relations will significantly impact regional stability.

Israel wants to save lives and bring hostages home. The main threat is Iran, who influences Hamas to harm Jewish people. Iran must know there will be consequences if they harm Americans. The difficulty lies in the tunnels where hostages could be held. These tunnels are located under schools, hospitals, and civilian sites because Hamas doesn't value life. Israel should not be told to pause, but rather allowed to defeat Hamas, as they pose a threat to both Israel and the US. Iran also poses a threat due to their actions in Gaza.

Israel rejected a ceasefire deal with Hamas despite CIA Director Bill Burns' involvement. Hamas remains confident in their ability to withstand Israeli attacks in Rafah. Hamas has gained recruits and explosives from unexploded Israeli bombs. Challenges to Hamas' control in Gaza have been thwarted, including a failed attempt by PA Secret Service to infiltrate Gaza. Hamas believes Israel's destruction in Gaza will backfire internationally. The upcoming battle in Rafah will be bloody, with potential massacres and high human costs. Netanyahu faces a dilemma on how to claim victory in the face of potential defeat. Translation: Israel rejected a ceasefire deal with Hamas despite CIA Director Bill Burns' involvement. Hamas remains confident in their ability to withstand Israeli attacks in Rafah. Hamas has gained recruits and explosives from unexploded Israeli bombs. Challenges to Hamas' control in Gaza have been thwarted, including a failed attempt by PA Secret Service to infiltrate Gaza. Hamas believes Israel's destruction in Gaza will backfire internationally. The upcoming battle in Rafah will be bloody, with potential massacres and high human costs. Netanyahu faces a dilemma on how to claim victory in the face of potential defeat.

Israel is facing a crisis, with suspicions of a planned attack due to military negligence. An ex-IDF member questions the lack of response to border breaches, highlighting corruption and instability in the government. This surprise attack is seen as a failure to protect Israel's people, reminiscent of past wartime failures.

The speaker discusses the changing dynamics in the Middle East since Israel's last major war in 1973. They highlight the significant increase in rocket and missile arsenals, particularly from Hezbollah. The speaker warns that if Israel were to march into Gaza, they would face a difficult and unrewarding battle, as they would not be able to eliminate all Hamas fighters and would not gain support from the people. The speaker also mentions the potential involvement of Iran, Turkey, and Pakistan, emphasizing the risks and challenges Israel would face. They conclude by stating that the fight would be unwinnable for Israel, even with US air power support, as there are not enough troops on the ground.

If Hamas isn't defeated in Gaza, it will inspire groups worldwide. They'll see that a few thousand extremists can manipulate the international community and bring democracies to their knees. Many are watching and pleased with the world's response. They're satisfied to witness the confusion, fear, and anxiety. It's crucial for us to unite because if Israel fails in Gaza, we all will.

In the discussion, Speaker 1 argues that Iran’s objective is simply to survive; their strategy is to continue lobbing missiles, launching drones, and striking back as the U.S. approaches within Iran’s vicinity. He contends Iran has maintained command and control, dispersed forces, and possesses a large and enduring supply of missiles and drones, so the minimal victory for Iran is to endure the conflict. When asked what the U.S. should do to win, Speaker 1 criticizes bombastic rhetoric about U.S. superiority and questions the efficacy of regime change through bombing. He suggests that killing the supreme leader backfires by galvanizing the population and Shiites worldwide, noting Iran’s developed succession mechanisms that compensate for leadership losses. He argues that attempts to destroy Iran or disintegrate its society are misguided and that, if the U.S. pushes toward such aims, it may trigger greater confrontation with China and Russia. He also implies mixed signals from U.S. leadership, contrasting expectations under Biden with actual actions, and contemplates a similar pattern under Trump. Speaker 2 adds that President Trump could claim success by neutralizing key figures like the Ayatollah, but suggests that Israel’s preferences are driving U.S. policy, implying limited autonomy for America. He notes the risk of being drawn back into conflict and emphasizes uncertainty about public perception as the war continues. He remarks on the presence of pro-war voices and social media pushback, interpreting it as a sign that the audience may be “over the target.” Speaker 0 seeks a military assessment of the current state: the Iranian capacity, the Israeli position, and American casualty figures. Speaker 1 assesses Israel as internally distressed: internal unrest, exhausted armed forces, and a large exodus of citizens; he predicts Israel faces an ominous future and foresees Israel possibly deteriorating before Iran. He describes Israel’s use of mercenaries and acknowledges substantial damage on both sides, with Netanyahu’s visibility limited. In the broader Persian Gulf, Speaker 1 states that deterrence has failed among regional powers such as the Emirates and Saudi Arabia. The United States is perceived as hampered by a long logistical footprint; uncertainty about missile stocks and intercepts persists, but Speaker 1 asserts that Iran can sustain war for a long time and that bombing alone will not compel Iranian capitulation. He foresees intensified U.S. troop and firepower deployment, including three carrier battle groups over the next two weeks, to replace the current forces. Overall, the conversation centers on Iran’s resilience, the limited likelihood that bombing will force regime change, the risk of broader great-power involvement, and growing weariness and strategic complications for all sides, with Iran poised to endure and possibly prevail in the long term.

The speaker discusses the difficulty of predicting the situation in Gaza, particularly regarding whether Israel will send ground forces. They mention that while there has been talk of eradicating Hamas, the Israelis may have realized that it would cause more trouble. Military force is not seen as a solution to the political problem, and the speaker highlights the dilemma Israel faces. They mention that bombing Gaza is disastrous and does not solve the problem, but not taking action allows Hamas to continue causing trouble. The speaker suggests that a two-state solution was the solution, but it is unlikely to happen due to Israel's right-wing politics. They conclude by stating that even if they were to advise Netanyahu, he wouldn't listen or be able to execute a two-state solution due to the current political climate in Israel.

Host: Welcome back. We’re joined by Larry Johnson, a former CI analyst, to discuss what looks like a war with Iran coming sooner rather than later. The world is watching as the US mobilizes more military assets to the region. How should we read this? Is this preparation for war, or a show of strength during negotiations? Larry Johnson: I hoped it was intimidation, but people I trust in national security say this is far more serious. It’s described as one of two things: either a reprise of Midnight Hammer, when US and Iran coordinated two raids into northern Iran, or they’re preparing for an Israeli attack and to back Israel. It’s not just to force concessions at the negotiating table; it’s a warning indicator. Steve Bryan, a former undersecretary of defense, reacted emotionally to US–Iran negotiations, arguing that Iran is using a rope-a-dope strategy. This pressure toward attacking Iran is enormous, and Netanyahu’s visit suggests coordination. The issue has moved beyond nuclear weapons to ballistic missiles and support for Hamas and Hezbollah. The rhetoric around Hamas and Hezbollah is, in my view, a red herring; Israeli claims don’t match the facts. Trump is under heavy pressure from the Zionist lobby to act, and I think a violence outbreak in the next two weeks is plausible, though I hope I’m wrong. Host: The debate you referenced about motives is revealing. If the goal is to destabilize or create chaos to justify action, which past interventions show that hasn’t produced sustainable stability. If the aim is negotiation leverage, what can be achieved now? It seems the US insists on tying any nuclear deal to Iran abandoning its allies and deterrence. Johnson: Iran has built a formidable arsenal: 18 types of ballistic missiles, a recently reportedly successful intercontinental ballistic missile test, five types of cruise missiles, and over 15 types of drones. They’ve learned from decades of conflict with the US and see themselves as at war with the United States. The US narrative of Iran as the aggressor clashes with historical US actions that damaged Iran’s economy and civilian life. Iran’s patience has been tested; they’ve drawn a line in the sand and are prepared to defend themselves, retaliating massively if attacked. They now have support from China and Russia, including advanced radar and air defense, with Chinese and Russian ships headed to the Arabian Sea for a joint exercise. If conflict escalates, Iran could retaliate across the region, with regional actors potentially joining in. Host: You mentioned the tactical realities of the region. The US has deployed many F-35s to the region, including land-based F-35s for SEAD. There are reports of a large US presence in Armenia, and Iran’s potential to strike Haifa or Tel Aviv if attacked. The geopolitical picture is complex, with Russia and China providing support to Iran. The US carrier fleet in the Gulf would face Iranian, Russian, and Chinese air defenses and missiles, including hypersonics. The question is whether the US can sustain a prolonged, scalable war against Iran. Johnson: The US’s sea-based strength is being tested. In the Red Sea, the US faced difficulties against the Houthis with two carriers and a robust air-defense screen; in the current scenario, Iran’s capabilities—air defenses, missiles, drones, and support from Russia and China—make a quick, decisive victory unlikely. Moreover, Israel’s own readiness for a broader war is uncertain; Netanyahu’s visit to the US could signal coordination, but Israeli media note that they may join only if Iran is on the back foot. There’s concern about intelligence reliability: Mossad assets that aided last year’s operations in Iran may be compromised, while Iran benefits from new radar and integrated air defenses. Host: Regional reactions could be pivotal. Iran has contingency plans against regional targets, and Armenia/Azerbaijan might be used as launch pads. Saudi Arabia and Qatar may sit this out if possible, while Iraq has aligned with Iran. The broader question is whether diplomacy can prevail, or whether the cycle of treating conflicts with force will continue. There’s a critique of Western policy: the idea that Iran wants to destroy the US is simplistic, and the region’s dynamics are far more nuanced. Johnson: Iran’s potential to escalate, regional dynamics, and great-power backing mean this could be more than a localized conflict. The overarching point is that there are limits to military power; politics and diplomacy remain essential, and the West’s current posture underestimates the complexity of Iran’s deterrence and regional links. Host: Thanks, Larry. I’ll link to Sonar 21 for more of your writings.

It is not in the U.S.'s or Israel's interest to get involved in another major war in the Middle East. It's false to say that when Israel was attacked, America was attacked. Adopting that mentality leads to situations like Iraq. The U.S. shouldn't put boots on the ground in Israel, and many Israelis agree. The U.S. is limited in how it can support Israel right now due to resources given to Ukraine and military drawdown after twenty years of war. The U.S. drew down artillery prepositioned in Israel and gave it to Ukraine, and it will take years to rebuild the capacity to adequately support partners like Israel and Ukraine while preparing for a potential conflict with China. Israel is going to need a lot of artillery shells just like Ukraine does. Early in the Ukraine war, Israel was attacked for taking a neutral stance and resisting pressure to send its Iron Dome to Ukraine. Had Israel caved, more Israelis would have died. Israel deserves credit for prioritizing the safety of its citizens.

General Douglas McGregor recently stated that Turkey has the ability to mobilize millions of troops within a few weeks. In a regional conflict, Hamas would be no match for Israel. However, if Turkey, Hezbollah, and Iran join the fight, it could escalate into a full-scale world war involving NATO and the US. The situation becomes even more dire with the presence of nuclear-armed Israel, which allegedly obtained its weapons from the US. Russia and China, who have expressed support for Palestine, may also intervene. In summary, the speaker finds the entire situation to be foolish.

Israel is facing deep trouble with no way out. They couldn't defeat Hamas in Gaza, are stuck there, and lack a military solution against Hezbollah. A war with Iran won't solve their problems. Internal issues, like reservists' misconduct, could lead to civil war. Israel heavily relies on the US for support, receiving $18 billion in 2024.

Following the Hamas attack, the Israeli army created a video to justify their response. The video shows war crimes committed by Israeli troops, including killing civilians and torture. The world is witnessing these atrocities, leading to a shift in public opinion and a growing movement for a free Palestine. Israel's supporters are becoming more critical, with even Jewish activists denouncing the occupation. The strategic defeat for Israel is evident, as public opinion wanes and legal challenges for genocide mount. The cost of reoccupying Gaza is proving higher than anticipated. Israel is on the brink of becoming a pariah state.

Israel is constantly under attack, relying on intelligence to avoid mistakes. A former Israeli military intelligence member discusses the recent conflict with Hamas in May 2021. Hamas aims to destroy Israel, launching missiles into Israeli cities. Israel defends itself using technology like the Iron Dome, but faces violent attacks from Palestinians. The speaker emphasizes that strength does not equate to aggression, urging a nuanced understanding of the conflict.

Chas Freeman and Glenn discuss the broader geopolitical implications of the ongoing war with Iran, focusing on perspectives from China, Russia, and the United States, and then turning to regional dynamics involving Israel, Japan, Brazil, South Africa, and others. Freeman argues that China does not have a unified view on the Iran war. He notes that some in the Chinese People’s Liberation Army are pleased to see the United States seemingly disarmed by its own stalemate and by depleting weapons stockpiles, including the pivot away from stationing intermediate-range missiles in the Pacific. Geopolitical thinkers fear the war destabilizes a central region for global commerce and energy, with the Hormuz Strait now effectively impassable. He asserts that Azerbaijan has become a primary route for Asia-to-Europe transit, while Iran’s control of the strait and safe passage for Chinese tankers complicate sanctions regimes. China, he says, is also recalibrating its economy toward renewables and away from fossil fuels due to the war’s effects. Freeman highlights how Asia-Pacific dynamics are affected: Japan is highly dependent on oil and gas imports and is stressed; Taiwan faces limits due to its own energy constraints; South Korea is economically hurt by the strait closure; Southeast Asia suffers from reduced petroleum exports; and the war pushes China closer to Russia, with Russia’s planned Siberia gas project gaining traction as a diversified supply route away from maritime routes. He also mentions Brazil and South Africa increasing military cooperation, noting potential Brazilian-Japanese collaborations and rising defense spending in Japan, with implications for US influence and global supply chains. Freeman then discusses Russia, noting Trump’s call with Putin and the possibility that Russia is seeking to influence or assist in ending the war with Iran. He asserts Iran seeks to deter or destroy Israel and to decolonize West Asia, including removing American forces from the Gulf. He emphasizes that Russia and China do not want Iran subjugated and abstained on a Security Council resolution condemning Iran, aiming to avoid offending Gulf Arabs while not endorsing the war. The war has drawn Iran closer to Russia, with Iranian drones and technology transfers now in Russian use, and Russia increasing influence in Iran as Gulf reconstruction becomes necessary. Freeman also points out that Iran has demanded reparations and sanctions relief, and that sanctions have deeply distressed the Iranian population. He argues that Russia benefits from higher oil and gas prices and European energy dependence on Russian supply, while the conflict complicates Western weapon stockpiles and European defense needs. He contends Putin benefits from divisions within the US and diminished American global leadership, while the war is not advantageous for the United States overall. Freeman emphasizes a broader moral and strategic dimension, criticizing what he sees as a departure from international law and ethical norms, including the suspension of targeting guidelines and collateral-damage assessments in certain operations. He cites concerns about human rights and humanitarian law, warning that the erosion of a universal moral order could have long-term consequences for Western diplomacy. He invokes historical and religious ethical frameworks (Kant, Grotius, and others) to argue for a return to principled conduct in war and postwar reconciliation. The conversation turns to Israel, with Freeman suggesting that Netanyahu’s long-standing aim to reshape Israel’s security and borders faces a difficult reckoning as Iran becomes a tangible military threat. Freeman contends that Israel’s plan for regime change in Iran is failing, and he questions what Plan B might be if Israel cannot secure its strategic goals. He warns that Israel could contemplate extreme options, including nuclear considerations, if it feels existentially threatened, while noting the potential for Israel’s positions to undermine American public support for Israel and complicate US domestic civil liberties and freedom of inquiry. Glenn and Freeman close by acknowledging that the situation has created a shifting web of alliances and rivalries, with European willingness to appease Trump waning and broader questions about coexistence in the Middle East. They stress the need for a more sustainable approach to regional security and a reconsideration of diplomatic norms to avoid escalating toward broader conflict.

Israel and Hamas are engaged in a war, causing distress for both Israelis and Palestinians. Hamas terrorists breached the border fence, leading to terror attacks and kidnappings in Israeli towns. Over 100 casualties and more than 100 kidnappings have been reported, with some individuals trapped in shelters for hours. The Israeli Defense Forces were not present in the Gaza envelope due to security concerns, leaving the area vulnerable. Mainstream media has been criticized for a lack of transparency. Questions arise about Israeli intelligence and the failure to respond to the breach. The situation raises suspicions of a planned operation and a failure to protect the people of Israel.

- Shortly before the attack, the government allegedly ordered the removal of all military presence from the area, giving Hamas a “free pass” to enter and begin their operation. In the following videos, former Israeli Defense Force (IDF) members warn that something very concerning is happening in Israel. - Afat Fenningzon reports, dated 10/07/2023, that Israeli defense forces around Gaza were instead positioned around the West Bank due to security concerns, leaving the Gaza envelope unoccupied. He says about 60 to 80% of that area was left without IDF forces. He notes that a year earlier there was a Gaza operation to prepare for such events, and ongoing trainings for these scenarios exist. This raises questions about Israeli intelligence: two years ago there were successful deployments of underground barriers with sensors to alert on terrorist breaches, yet there was zero response to the border and fence breaching. He emphasizes that Israel has a highly advanced military and questions how there could be no indication of what was coming, given that a cat moving near a fence would trigger forces. He asks, “What happened to the strongest army in the world? How come border crossings were wide open?” He describes the chain of events as very unusual and not typical for the Israeli defense system. He calls the current government highly corrupt and asserts the previous one was no better, stating his goal is to expose evil forces. He characterizes the surprise attack as seemingly a planned operation on all fronts and, if he were a conspiracy theorist, would say it feels like the work of the deep state. He suggests the people of Israel and the people of Palestine have been sold to “higher powers,” acknowledging how difficult the reality is to fathom. - Speaker 2 questions how the strongest army and the most sophisticated intelligence in the world could allow a few hundred Hamas fighters to enter Israel and cause the attack, while Hamas fighters did not meet any Israeli resistance in the area. He asserts it is not logical and implies there is more behind it, suggesting Israel sacrificed its own people and civilians on the Gaza border, removed protection and the army, and allowed Hamas to carry out their actions. He reiterates that Israel has the most sophisticated intelligence and a strong army, yet such an incursion occurred, implying hidden mechanisms or plans at work.

There are concerns about Israeli intelligence and the lack of response to the recent border breaches in Gaza. The speaker, who served in the IDF 25 years ago, finds it hard to believe that Israel was unaware of the situation. They question how the strongest army in the world could have open border crossings. The chain of events seems unusual and suggests a planned operation. This failure to protect the people of Israel is seen as a significant failure, possibly even bigger than the Yom Kippur War. The speaker mentions the coincidence of the timing and suggests a conspiracy involving the deep state. However, they admit that it is still difficult to fully comprehend.