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If Russia and China form a military alliance and the US enters World War 3, there is a high likelihood that the United States could cease to exist. The foreign policy establishment that led us to Iraq and Afghanistan has failed to protect our borders and cyber defenses. A super EMP attack from a country like Iran could take out our electric grid, causing millions of Americans to become impoverished. Russia and China have advanced space-based offensive capabilities, while the US lacks both offensive and defensive capabilities. Russia is accumulating nuclear weapons at a faster pace than the US. Going to war would be a huge risk, especially when our own homeland is vulnerable and our industrial capacity is lacking. Both parties in the US support a pro-war agenda, increasing the risk of World War 3. The American people are not being informed about the potential consequences of such a war.

Gilbert Doktorov is asked how the Iran war is reshaping dynamics in the East, especially for Russia and China, and what the broader implications are for global order. - On Russia’s stance and reaction: Doktorov notes a gap between the Kremlin’s official positions and what “chattering classes” discuss. He observes astonishingly limited reaction from President Putin and his close foreign-policy circle to dramatic developments that could redefine regional and global orders. He contrasts Putin’s cautious, “slow-war” approach with sharper criticisms from other Russian voices (e.g., Salaviyev and Alexander Dugin) who urge moving beyond a gradual strategy. There is a sense within some Russian circles that a more assertive stance may be required, yet official channels show restraint. - On Iran’s strategic position and alliances: He points out that Iran has withstood intense pressure and maintained the ability to threaten Gulf energy infrastructure and the Strait of Hormuz, thereby sustaining global leverage despite severe attacks. Iran has managed to survive and press the global energy market, calling into question how meaningful Iran’s inclusion in BRICS or the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) is in practice. He notes scant evidence of meaningful Russian or Chinese military or intelligence support to Iran in public accounts, and cites Israeli claims of Russian arms shipments being denied by Moscow. - On the West’s behavior and international law: The discussion highlights what is described as the United States’ “might makes right” posture and the dismissiveness toward traditional international-law norms, including UN Charter commitments. The panelists contrast American rhetoric about legality with its real-world actions, and discuss how Russia’s and China’s responses have been cautious or critical rather than conciliatory or confrontational. - On potential military cooperation and bloc dynamics: The conversation explores whether a deeper Russia-China-North Korea alignment could emerge in reaction to US and Israeli actions against Iran. Doktorov mentions that North Korea is viewed as a, “will and determination to act,” supplying munitions such as underwater drones and missiles to Iran, whereas Russia and China are characterized as more talk than action. He argues Moscow benefits from maintaining broad, non-aligned diplomacy, but acknowledges a shift in Russian thinking after recent events toward more decisive posture. - On Europe and the US-European split: The panel discusses the European Union’s fragility and its leaders’ inconsistent responses to the Iran crisis and to US pressure. They consider European solidarity rhetoric as a cover for avoiding hard choices, with examples including Belgian leadership suggesting normalization with Russia post-conflict. The discussion reflects concern that EU leaders may be forced to confront realignments as Gulf energy supplies and US LNG leverage reshape Europe’s energy security and political calculus. - On diplomacy and pathways forward: The speakers debate the prospects for diplomacy, including possible three-way or broader security arrangements, and whether Alaska or other meeting points could offer reprieve. They note a public split within Moscow’s foreign-policy establishment about how to proceed, with internal figures pushing for diplomacy and others advocating a stronger balance of power. There is explicit skepticism about the utility of negotiations with Donald Trump and the idea that the war could end on the battlefield rather than through diplomacy. - On the Ukraine war’s interconnection: The discussion emphasizes that the Iran crisis has global ramifications that feed back into Ukraine, noting that Russia’s current posture and Western responses influence the Ukraine conflict. Doktorov highlights that the depletion of US air defenses observed in the Israel-Iran context affects Ukraine, underscoring the interrelatedness of the two wars and their combined impact on global power dynamics. - Final takeaway: The dialogue reiterates that the Iran war has a global dimension with the two wars being intimately connected; the Iran conflict reshapes alliances, energy security, and strategic calculations across Europe, the Middle East, and East Asia, while signaling a potential reconfiguration of Western alliances and multipolar governance.

Ukraine has been a path of invasion into Russia. To avoid this, Gorbachev agreed to allow Germany to reunify under NATO, but only if NATO didn't expand eastward. Despite this agreement, NATO expanded, and the US withdrew from nuclear weapons treaties, placing missile systems near Moscow. In 2014, the US allegedly overthrew Ukraine's government, leading Russia to annex Crimea to protect its naval base. When the new Ukrainian government attacked ethnic Russians, Russia intervened to protect them. Zelenskyy was elected on a promise of peace by signing the Minsk Accords, but he refused to sign the agreement. Russia intervened, seeking negotiations to keep Ukraine out of NATO. A treaty was drafted, but allegedly, Joe Biden sent Boris Johnson to force Ukraine to abandon it. The result has been a catastrophic loss of life, with the world viewing the US as the aggressor.

The Ukraine war didn't begin with Putin's invasion; it's rooted in broken promises. In 1990, the US assured Gorbachev NATO wouldn't expand eastward, a pledge violated starting in 1994. NATO expansion, coupled with US actions like the 1999 bombing of Serbia and the 2002 withdrawal from the ABM treaty, fueled Russian insecurity. The US involvement in Ukrainian politics, including the 2014 coup, further escalated tensions. Putin's 2021 security proposal, seeking to prevent NATO expansion, was rejected. The US's "open door" policy for NATO enlargement, and its support for Ukraine's continued fight, directly contradicts the assurances made to Gorbachev, leading to the current conflict. This is not a simple case of Russian aggression, but a culmination of decades of broken promises and escalating tensions.

In this discussion, Zhang Shuay Shin and Speaker 1 analyze the evolving U.S.-Iran confrontation through the lens of global power dynamics, the petrodollar, and the shifting balance among major powers. - The war is framed as primarily about preserving the petrodollar. Speaker 1 argues the United States, burdened by enormous debt, seeks to maintain the dollar’s dominance by controlling energy trade through naval power and strategic choke points. The belief is that the U.S. can weaponize the dollar against rivals, as seen when it froze Russian assets and then moved to stabilize oil markets. BRICS and others are moving toward alternatives, including a gold corridor, challenging the petrodollar’s centrality. The aim is to keep Europe and East Asia dependent on U.S. energy, reinforcing American hegemony, even as historical hubris risks a global backlash turning growing powers against Washington. - The sequence of escalation over six weeks is outlined: after the American attack on Tehran and the Iranian move to close the Strait of Hormuz, the U.S. eased sanctions on Russian and Iranian oil to maintain global stability, according to Treasury statements. Escalations targeted civilian infrastructure and strategic chokepoints, with discussions of striking GCC energy infrastructure and desalination plants. A U.S. threat to “bomb Iran back to the stone age” was countered by Iran proposing a ten-point framework—encompassing uranium enrichment rights, lifting sanctions, and security guarantees for Iran and its proxies. The Americans reportedly suggested the framework was workable, but negotiations in Islamabad stalled when U.S. officials did not engage seriously. - The broader objective is posited as not simply a tactical war but a strategic move to ensure U.S. imperial supremacy by shaping energy flows. Speaker 1 speculates Trump’s motive centers on keeping the petrodollar intact, potentially forcing China and other partners to buy energy with dollars. Iran’s willingness to negotiate in Islamabad is linked to pressure from China amid China’s economic strains, particularly as energy needs and Belt and Road investments create vulnerabilities for China if Middle East energy becomes unreliable. - The proposed naval blockade is discussed as difficult to implement directly against Iran due to ballistic missiles; instead, the plan may aim to choke off alternative routes like the Strait of Malacca, leveraging trusted regional partners and allies. Iran could respond via the Red Sea (Bab al-Mandab) or other leverage, including the Houthis, challenging Western control of energy corridors. The overarching aim would be to force a global energy reorientation toward North America, though it risks long-term hostility toward the United States. - The roles of great powers are analyzed: the U.S. strategy is described as exploiting Middle East disruption to preserve the petrodollar, with short-term gains but long-term risks of a broader alliance against U.S. hegemony. Europe and Asia are pressured to adapt, with China’s energy needs especially salient as sanctions tighten Middle East supply. Russia is identified as the principal challenger to U.S. maritime hegemony, while China remains economically entangled, facing strategic incentives to cooperate with the United States if required by economic pressures. - The dialogue considers NATO and Europe, arguing that the real contest is between globalists and nationalists in the United States, with Trump viewed as an agent of empire who may threaten the existing globalist framework. The speakers discuss whether this competition will redefine alliances, the future of NATO, and the possibility that a more Eurasian-led order could emerge if Western powers fail to maintain their maritime advantages. - Finally, Russia’s role is emphasized: Moscow is seen as the key counterweight capable of challenging American maritime dominance, with the war in Iran serving, in part, to counter Russian actions in Ukraine and to incentivize alignment with Russia, China, and Iran against U.S. leadership over the next two decades.

The speaker suggests they rely on Putin's worldview due to their knowledge of the United States' actions, citing the US bombing of Belgrade to create Kosovo and install a NATO base. They claim the US has repeatedly engaged in illegal wars, including in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Libya, and that the US overthrew Yanukovych in Kiev in 2014, despite an EU agreement for early elections. The speaker says that in 2015, Russia advocated for peace through negotiations, leading to the Minsk 2 agreement, which was unanimously approved by the UN Security Council. However, the speaker claims the US government laughed at it, and Angela Merkel admitted it was a holding pattern to allow Ukraine to build strength. The speaker distrusts the US government and wants both sides to agree on terms publicly. They propose that the US and Russia commit to not overthrowing governments or expanding beyond agreed boundaries, and that NATO halt its enlargement.

- Democrats' spending caused inflation, and Biden's administration ignited global unrest after a peaceful period under Trump. Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal was botched, and NATO expansion talks provoked Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Opportunities for peace were rejected, leading to a prolonged war with mass casualties and depleted US stockpiles. - The US has a history of military interventions, including the bombing of Belgrade, and illegal wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, as well as involvement in the 2014 coup in Kyiv. The US government cannot be trusted. - NATO expansion was promised not to move "one inch eastward" but Clinton signed off on plans to expand NATO to Ukraine. The US unilaterally withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002, leading to missile systems in Eastern Europe that Russia views as a threat. - Putin sought to force Ukraine to negotiate neutrality, aiming to keep NATO off Russia's border. The US rejected negotiations, and a draft Russia-US security agreement proposing no NATO enlargement. - Germany has aligned with the US, supporting NATO expansion, but previously had an independent foreign policy. Merkel knew NATO expansion was a bad idea but gave in to US pressure. - The US is in a hot war with Russia, with US personnel on the ground in Ukraine. Russia could disable critical American infrastructure. - The war in Ukraine is a US-Russia conflict provoked by the US with the aim of NATO enlargement. The American people have been told the opposite. - The war started in 2014 with US involvement in the overthrow of Ukraine's government. The US rejected off-ramps and continues to fund the war, resulting in Ukrainian deaths and territorial losses. - The US should negotiate with Russia, acknowledging mutual security concerns and halting NATO enlargement. - The US is trying to destroy Russia through CIA operations in Ukraine. Russia is defending its right to survive. - Globalists aim to exploit Ukraine's resources and destroy Russia. The BRICS nations are moving towards a gold-backed currency. - The US has invested billions in Ukraine since 1991 to support a democratic government. Zelenskyy's team is adding fuel to the fire. - The US blew up the Nord Stream pipeline, as promised by Biden. - The US is turning Ukraine into a de facto member of NATO.

China and Russia have a non-confrontational relationship that promotes world peace. The US, on the other hand, is seen as a warmonger, having been involved in numerous armed conflicts and interfering in other countries' affairs. It has supported over 50 foreign governments, meddled in elections, and attempted assassinations. The US-led NATO has caused wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, resulting in a high death toll and millions of refugees. The US's focus on Asia Pacific security is also a cause for concern. As long as US aggression persists, global peace will be hard to achieve.

The ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine is not just a battle between two countries, but a larger struggle between democracy and dictatorship, specifically involving the Chinese Communist Party and the United States. The CCP's strategy includes creating chaos in multiple regions to overwhelm the US, with conflicts in the Middle East, Russia's aggression towards Ukraine, and CCP's intimidation of Taiwan. These actions highlight the global impact of the Chinese Communist Party's influence.

The speaker suggests the US has a history of interventionism, citing the bombing of Belgrade to create Kosovo and establish a NATO base. They claim the US illegally engaged in wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, with the Obama administration tasking the CIA to overthrow Bashar al Assad. They also allege the US, along with right-wing Ukrainian military forces, overthrew Yanukovych in Kyiv in 2014, despite an EU agreement for early elections. The speaker states that in 2015, Russia wanted peace through negotiations, leading to the Minsk II agreement, which was unanimously voted on by the UN Security Council and signed by Ukraine. However, the speaker claims the US government laughed at it, and Angela Merkel admitted it was a holding pattern to allow Ukraine to build strength. The speaker distrusts the US government and wants both sides to agree to terms publicly, with the US agreeing to stop overthrowing governments, Russia agreeing to not advance further, and NATO agreeing to not enlarge.

China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea are working together to disrupt the world. China funds Russia's war against Ukraine, while Russia obtains weapons from China, North Korea, and Iran. Iran sponsors terrorism globally, including Hamas and Hezbollah. The speaker supports helping Ukraine for two reasons. Firstly, the US promised to defend Ukraine when they returned Soviet nuclear weapons to Russia. Keeping this promise is crucial for maintaining credibility. Secondly, the speaker believes that Russia's aggression will not stop at Ukraine. By providing Ukraine with a small portion of the Pentagon budget, they have significantly degraded Russian military hardware, making it a worthwhile investment.

In 1994, the U.S. initiated a project to expand NATO eastward indefinitely, despite assurances given to Mikhail Gorbachev in 1990 that NATO would not move "one inch eastward." This expansion continued under multiple presidents, with seven more countries added in 2004. In 2007, Putin urged the U.S. to halt expansion, reminding them of the earlier promise. In 2002, the U.S. unilaterally withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and began installing anti-ballistic missile systems in Russia's bordering territories. In 2008, George Bush Jr. aimed to include Ukraine and Georgia in NATO, which led to conflict. The U.S. also played a role in the 2014 overthrow of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, who favored neutrality. Recently, President Trump had a call with President Putin, signaling a respect for Russia's concerns. The new defense secretary stated that Ukraine will not join NATO. Additionally, Secretary of State Marco Rubio acknowledged a multipolar world, marking a shift from the U.S. mindset of sole superpower dominance. These events signal a potential shift towards peace.

Putin's worldview contrasts sharply with the reality of his war's brutality. The U.S. has a history of military interventions, starting with the bombing of Belgrade under Clinton, which aimed to alter European borders without UN authority. The U.S. also engaged in illegal wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Libya. In 2014, the U.S. supported the overthrow of Yanukovych in Ukraine, disregarding a prior agreement with the EU for early elections. The Minsk II agreement, intended to bring peace, was ignored by the U.S. government, which viewed it as a mere delay tactic. Trust in the U.S. is lacking, and a clear, public agreement between the conflicting sides is necessary to prevent further interventions and ensure stability. Treaties can hold if respected by all parties involved.

The speaker suggests they rely on Putin's worldview due to their knowledge of the United States' actions, citing the US bombing of Belgrade to create Kosovo and install a NATO base. They claim the US has repeatedly engaged in illegal wars, including in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Libya, and that the US, along with right-wing Ukrainian forces, overthrew Yanukovych in Kiev in 2014, despite an EU-brokered agreement for early elections. The speaker says that in 2015, Russia advocated for peace through negotiations, leading to the Minsk 2 agreement, which was unanimously approved by the UN Security Council. However, the speaker claims the US government laughed at Minsk 2, and Angela Merkel admitted it was a holding pattern to allow Ukraine to build strength. The speaker distrusts the US government and wants both sides to agree to terms publicly, with the US agreeing not to overthrow governments and Russia agreeing not to advance further, with NATO not enlarging.

The term "unprovoked" used by journalists regarding Russia's actions is misleading. This war has numerous provocations, stemming from U.S. actions like NATO expansion plans since the 1990s, the 2002 withdrawal from the ABM Treaty, and the 1999 bombing of Belgrade. The overthrow of Viktor Yanukovych in 2014, supported by U.S. officials, and the failure to uphold the Minsk II agreements also contributed to the conflict. By the end of 2021, after nine years of tension, a major war could have been avoided if the U.S. had engaged in negotiations over Russia's proposal for Ukraine's neutrality and NATO non-expansion. I urged the White House to pursue diplomacy to prevent war.

The U.S. has a history of intervening in foreign conflicts without UN authority, such as the bombing of Belgrade, wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and the overthrow of Qaddafi in Libya. In Ukraine, the U.S. supported the ousting of Yanukovych despite a prior agreement for early elections and national unity. The Minsk II agreement, aimed at resolving the conflict in Eastern Ukraine, was ignored by the U.S. government, which viewed it as a means for Ukraine to strengthen militarily. Trust in the U.S. is lacking, and there is a call for both sides to negotiate openly, with clear terms that prevent future interventions and respect existing boundaries. Treaties should be upheld for lasting peace.

My skepticism towards Putin's narrative stems from my extensive knowledge of US foreign policy. The US has a history of illegal interventions: bombing Belgrade to alter borders, wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, and the overthrow of the Ukrainian government in 2014, despite a prior EU agreement. The Minsk II agreement, unanimously adopted by the UN Security Council, was essentially disregarded by the US and Ukraine, delaying a peaceful resolution. This history makes it difficult for me to trust the US government. A lasting peace requires transparency and accountability. Both the US and Russia need to publicly commit to ending regime change operations, respecting existing borders, and halting NATO expansion. Then, the world can judge the terms of any agreement.

China, Russia, and Iran are seen as the new axis of evil and pose a significant threat. China, in particular, aims to rebuild its empire and challenge the US as a global superpower. They are establishing outposts, buying farmland and land near military installations in the US. Meanwhile, the US is the only nation with the ability to project power globally. The concern is that China is encroaching on this power. Additionally, there have been questionable decisions made by the Biden administration, such as allowing a Chinese spy balloon to float across the country for 8 days.

Russia is consistently portrayed as acting against American interests, particularly with its alliance with China and its invasion of Ukraine. This action, while wrong, was driven by Russia's concern over Ukraine potentially joining NATO and becoming a satellite of the United States with American weapons. The speaker argues that Ukraine's government isn't fully sovereign, alleging it was installed by a CIA coup. They highlight that during peace talks in Istanbul, a potential agreement was disrupted by the US, leading to further devastation and loss of life in Ukraine. The speaker questions why the U.S. is at war with Russia.

The war in Ukraine and potential conflict over Taiwan are driven by misguided policies in Washington. There's a belief that the U.S. must prevent China from becoming the dominant power in East Asia, which could lead to nuclear war. Game theory suggests cooperation is often overlooked; real people tend to cooperate more than expected when they communicate. Historical examples, like Kennedy's approach during the Cuban Missile Crisis, show that dialogue can lead to peace. Current leaders, however, focus on military solutions and insults rather than diplomacy. The notion that China poses an intrinsic threat is misguided; it has not invaded other countries in its long history. Instead, the U.S. has been continuously engaged in wars, reflecting a militarized mindset that hinders the possibility of peaceful resolutions.

The war is fundamentally about security for Russia, not territory. Since 1992, Russia has opposed NATO's presence in Ukraine due to historical invasions. Promises made during the Soviet Union's dissolution to not expand NATO eastward have been broken, leading to tensions. In 2014, the U.S. supported the overthrow of Ukraine's elected government, inviting NATO, which prompted Russian responses. Attempts at peace, like the Minsk Accords and later negotiations in 2022, were undermined by Western interference. The conflict has resulted in significant casualties, and the U.S. has spent substantial resources on it, which could be better used domestically. Trump aims to resolve the situation, preferring negotiation over conflict, while Russia's fears of being attacked through Ukraine have been validated by recent developments.

Russia has 6,000 nuclear warheads, 1,600 that are deployed. Russia is under attack by The US and UK. I say that because while Ukraine nominally presses the button or, makes the attack, it's US weaponry, US satellites, US intelligence, US tracking, US logistics. And so we have an active hot war going on right now. It's insane. So far, no American president, has had, either the bravery or the decency to tell the truth, which is that from the time of the end of the Soviet Union in December 1991 until now, The US has been on a campaign to weaken Russia, to divide Russia, to surround Russia, to put US military all around Russia, to break apart Russia if possible, to sanction Russia to its knees, whatever it is. That's been The US campaign. So if this war is gonna stop, The US has to stop its campaign against Russia. That's the story.

Scott Ritter and the interviewer discuss the looming end of the New START treaty and the broader implications for global arms control, stability, and security. - The New START treaty, described by Ritter as the remaining nuclear arms control framework, expires, and without a moratorium on deployed caps or a new treaty, the risk of nuclear war between the United States and Russia, and also with China, could rise significantly. Ritter calls this “earth ending significant” and says the six-decade arms-control legacy would be at risk if no replacement is negotiated. - Ritter emphasizes that New START has provided a framework of stability through on-site inspections, data exchange, and verifiable limits. He notes that the treaty’s value rests on confidence that numbers are correct, which requires robust verification, something he argues was compromised by the lack of inspections in the last two years and by political gamesmanship during negotiations. Rose Gutermiller’s warning about needing a confidence baseline for a potential one-year moratorium is highlighted. - The historical arc of arms control is traced from the Cuban Missile Crisis to the ABM treaty, which Ritter says was foundational because it established the concept of mutually assured destruction. He argues that many subsequent arms-control efforts, including START and particularly INF, were intertwined with the ABM framework and mutual deterrence. The INF treaty is highlighted as the occasion where Ritter was the first ground-based weapons inspector in the Soviet Union, underscoring the value of on-site verification. - Ritter recounts how START was negotiated amid a collapsing Soviet Union, and how post-Soviet realities (nuclear weapons in former Soviet states under Russian control) affected negotiations. He contends that Soviet/Russian leaders perceived START as potentially “bullying” and that Western confidence in Russian strategic deterrence diminished after the end of the Cold War, which contributed to tensions over missile defenses and strategic postures. - The dialogue reviews the evolution of U.S.-Russian relations and how perceptions of threat or weakness influenced policy. Ritter recalls that Russian leadership warned of consequences when the ABM treaty was abandoned and that fear and respect shaped early arms-control cooperation. He asserts that American arrogance toward Russia, including dismissive attitudes toward Russian concerns about missile defenses, harmed trust and contributed to instability. - The involvement of China is treated as a separate but connected issue. China’s position, as outlined in its white paper, is not seeking an arms race and endorses a “no first use” policy, but argues that the United States and Russia must first resolve their bilateral arms-control arrangements before China would join in a broader framework. China argues for all parties to reduce numbers, while insisting China should not be treated as a mere subset of a U.S.-Russia framework. - Ritter asserts that the current U.S. approach to modernization and expansion of strategic forces could precipitate a three-way arms race (U.S., Russia, China) and notes a planned shift in U.S. posture, including potential reactivation of underground testing and revamping warhead delivery systems. He argues that if the process proceeds, other nations might follow with their own nuclear programs, eroding the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) framework and undermining decades of nonproliferation efforts. - He contrasts the current situation with past arms-control muscle memory. He laments the loss of experienced negotiators and Russian area expertise, arguing that today’s policymakers and some academics treat arms control as transactional or overly adversarial rather than as a reciprocal, trust-based process. He claims there is a shortage of genuine arms-control specialists and describes a culture in which the media and academia have overlooked or mischaracterized Russia’s behavior, often blaming Moscow for cheating when, in his view, the problem lies with Western overreach and a lack of mutual understanding. - The conversation ends on a bleak note: without renewed treaties, verification, and mutual recognition of security concerns, the world could regress to a “Wild West” dynamic of proliferation and competition, with Europe’s security umbrella eroded and a broader risk of renewed testing, modernization, and potential conflict. Overall, the discussion frames the expiry of New START as a pivotal moment with potentially catastrophic consequences for strategic stability, arguing for renewed arms-control engagement, better verification, and a recognition of the intertwined histories and motivations of the United States, Russia, and China.

Glenn: Welcome back. We are joined today by Professor John Mersheimer to understand what is happening in the world with this new great power rivalry and how the outcome of the Ukraine war will impact this new Cold War. Have we entered a new Cold War? Who are the players, competing interests, and the rules? Mersheimer: I think we have entered a new Cold War. We're in a multipolar system, and the United States, China, and Russia are the three great powers. The United States is certainly in a cold war with China. China is powerful and threatens to dominate East Asia, and the United States will almost certainly go to great lengths to prevent that from happening, which axiomatically creates an intense security competition in China. An intense security competition is a cold war, and the name of the game is to make sure that security competition does not turn into a hot war. We are in a cold war with the Chinese, or the Chinese are in a cold war with us. The hot war is avoided. Regarding Russia, since we moved into multipolarity, the Russians and the Chinese have been close allies against the United States. This is largely a result of the Ukraine war, which has pushed the Russians into the arms of the Chinese and caused closer Sino-Russian cooperation. The United States, through the Biden administration, was involved in a cold war with both Russia and China. Trump tried to change that, seeking good relations with Russia to form a Russia-plus-US alliance against China, but he has been unable to make that happen. The result is that the United States is basically still in a cold war with both Russia and China. The war in Ukraine has made me worry greatly that the Cold War in Europe could turn into a hot war, even as the U.S.-China relationship remains cooler so far. Glenn: European leaders hoped the United States and Europe would unite in this new Cold War, with liberal hegemony fading and a return to unity against Russia. But Ukraine has instead divided Europe. How do you explain this? Is it the US not seeing Russia as the same threat as Europeans, or a concern about pushing Russia toward China, or Europe’s costs of the partnership? Is this uniquely a Trump-era approach? Mersheimer: From an American point of view, good relations with Russia make sense. China is the peer competitor, and the United States wants to pivot to East Asia to prevent China’s dominance. Russia is the weakest of the three great powers and not a major threat to Europe. The Americans believe Europe can deal with Russia, freeing them to focus on China. Europe, by contrast, is threatened by Russia’s proximity and thus prioritizes Russia. NATO expansion into Ukraine is seen by many Europeans as a disaster, poisoning Russia–Europe relations, making Europe deeply committed to using Ukraine to weaken Russia. The transatlantic alliance becomes strained, especially with Trump raising the possibility of leaving NATO. Europeans fear losing the American pacifier that keeps centrifugal forces in check, which would complicate European coordination with Russia. Glenn: If the United States signals a departure, won’t Europe face greater challenges in managing Russia? And is Russia truly an empire-building threat, or is this a post-2014 narrative that intensified after February 2022? Mersheimer: Bringing Ukraine into NATO was destined to cause trouble. The crisis began in 2014, and the 2022 war is ongoing. The Ukrainians and Europeans want a security guarantee for Ukraine, essentially NATO membership, while Russia demands territory and rejects a security guarantee that would enshrine NATO’s presence near its borders. The Europeans see NATO expansion as threatening, while the Americans view Russia as the weaker power and the need to pivot to China. The controversy over responsibility for this disaster arises from competing interpretations of NATO expansion and Russian aggression. Glenn: Do you see Russia changing course soon? There has been escalation—Odessa blockades, port attacks, and targeting infrastructure. Could this signal a new stage of the war? Mersheimer: The Russians believe Ukraine is on the ropes and expect to win on the battlefield in 2026, possibly expanding fronts in Kharkiv and Sumy. They may consider increasing conventional force and possibly using nuclear weapons if the war drags on. They view the conflict as existential and fear losing, which could push them toward drastic measures to end the war. The Russians could escalate if they think they cannot win conventionally. Glenn: What are the non-nuclear options to win quickly? Could the Russians deliver a decisive conventional victory? Mersheimer: It’s a war of attrition. If Ukraine’s army is weakened, Russia could surround large Ukrainian formations, disrupt logistics, and open larger fronts. They may build up forces in the rear, potentially for a breakthrough or to deter Western escalation. The battlefield outcome may determine the next steps, including whether nuclear options are considered. Glenn: How will Ukraine end? Is it a military defeat, economic collapse, or political fragmentation? Mersheimer: Ukraine is likely to be defeated on the battlefield. Its economy is in desperate shape, and losing Odessa or more territory would worsen it. Politically, Ukraine will face internal divisions once the war ends. Europe will face a broken Russia–Ukraine relationship, with some European states viewing the conflict differently. Ukraine’s demographic decline compounds its bleak outlook, and the country may become a problematic rump state. The war should have been settled earlier; the negotiators in Istanbul in 2022 could have sought a different path. Zelensky’s choice to align with Western powers and walk away from Istanbul negotiations deepened Ukraine’s predicament. Glenn: Any final reflections? Mersheimer: The war’s outcome will reshape Western unity and European security. Historians may view this as a major mistake in weakening the West. The blame for the disaster will likely be attributed in the West to Russia’s imperialism, but the expansion of NATO is also central. Europe’s economic and political landscape will be altered, and Ukraine’s future will be deeply challenging.

The current situation marks the end of the post cold war order. The reasons behind this will be analyzed for years to come. It is now widely acknowledged that some fundamental beliefs that guided us during this era are no longer valid. Beijing and Moscow are collaborating to promote autocracy worldwide through their partnership. As this rivalry intensifies, many countries are adopting cautious strategies.