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Marjorie Taylor Greene said she found the situation in a building that was “basically empty” and questioned whether members of Congress own real estate and rent to the federal government in Washington, DC. She claimed the answer was “Yeah,” and argued this should have been the beginning of addressing corruption. She emphasized she would be different and would be on the front end, aiming to eliminate corruption that has infiltrated committee systems. She acknowledged politics’ current back-and-forth dynamics but said the goal is to reduce that tension and focus on reform. Speaker 1 asked Greene, as Doge chairman, to continue the work on what appears to be a massive scandal: big federal buildings owned by members of Congress and leased back to the federal government—private buildings owned by members of Congress leased to the government—describing it as “the snake eating its tail” and “the tip of the iceberg.” Greene described the broader problem as a frustration with the system and warned against a “shotgun approach,” saying they must not be neutralized and must focus on a few targets. She identified the first focus as the IRS, noting that the big complaint with the IRS, besides “stealing your money,” is that you can’t ever reach them and that their technology is not intermingled. Speaker 1 referenced Greene’s statements about government duplication. Greene said she found through government duplication a chart that “my staff has uncovered basically over a trillion dollars of just simple duplication within these departments that nobody is willing to tackle.” She reiterated the plan to tackle this issue, even if it’s not “sexy,” and to “tackle it,” showing it to the American public, with the hope they will back efforts when changing the structure of government. Greene reiterated that the aim is to focus on a few issues, start with IRS problems, and address the broader duplication and inefficiencies uncovered by her staff. She expressed a determination to reveal these findings to the public and pursue structural changes in government.

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The Treasury's main payment system, PAM, handles about $5 trillion a year, roughly a billion dollars an hour. When we first looked at it, payments could be processed with no categorization or description – basically, untraceable blank checks. If this were a public company, it would be delisted, and the executives would be in jail. We recommended making payment categorization codes mandatory with some explanation required for each payment. This radical change is being implemented now, and I think it probably saves $100 billion a year. Where was that money going? It's hard to say what was waste and what was fraud. If the government sends money to someone who doesn't deserve it, is that waste, or fraud?

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We found that the government was essentially sending untraceable blank checks. If a public company did this, they'd be delisted and executives would go to prison, but it's normal in the government. We recommended to the Treasury and Federal Reserve that payment categorization codes be mandatory, not optional, and that every payment need some explanation, even if we don't judge the quality of it. This is a radical change that's now being implemented. I'm guessing it probably saves about $100 billion a year. Where was that money going? It's hard to say if it was waste or fraud. Many payments were just approved and kept going even after the approving officer changed jobs, retired, or died. It's like forgetting to cancel a gym membership, but instead of $20 a month, it's $20 billion a year.

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The federal government uses only one bank account, the treasury general account, to disperse all monies. There is allegedly $500 billion of fraud every year, and hundreds of billions of dollars in improper payments. The consolidated financial report produced by the treasury cannot pass an audit due to material weakness. Until recently, the federal government could not pass an audit because it lacked necessary payment information, such as payment codes, explanations, and contact information. Previously, over 580 agencies could make payments without verification, and the treasury would send them out as fast as possible. This is likened to a household where many people can access the bank account and disperse funds without justification or verification.

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There's no incentive in government work because the payment system rewards simply asking for money. If you ask for money, you're just going to get it. Incentives decide outcomes.

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Governments lack the incentive to adapt and improve because they can't fail like private sector organizations. The technology revolution has transformed private sector organizations, but government organizations have not fully adapted. Government financial systems are decades old. It is claimed that $2.3 trillion in transactions cannot be tracked. Information cannot be shared within a single building because it's stored on dozens of different, inaccessible, and incompatible technological systems.

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Our financial systems are antiquated. We're unable to track trillions of dollars in transactions. Information sharing is severely limited by outdated and incompatible technological systems.

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Speaker 0 recounts discovering a secret SCIF on campus, a secure facility with files nobody knew existed. An employee walked by a door, inquiries were made, the room was entered, and individuals were found working there with secret files on controversial topics. Those files have been turned over to attorneys and the speaker is pursuing what happened. The speaker notes that Customs and Border Protection (CBP) knows every traveler entering the country and every good that comes in, and they assess and collect tariffs. They highlight that information about travelers during COVID was with national labs under the speaker’s jurisdiction, and that scientists at those labs participated with the Wuhan lab. The speaker claims these scientists traveled back and forth between each other and worked on those experiments, describing this as eye-opening. Addressing Elon and his team, the speaker says they were extremely helpful since the speaker’s arrival in office, assisting in identifying a troubling issue: some of the speaker’s own department employees had downloaded software on the speaker’s phone and laptop to spy on them and record meetings. The speaker states that this had happened to several politicians and notes that bringing in technology experts helped reveal this software; without examining laptops and phones, the activity would still be ongoing. The speaker emphasizes a need to continue partnering with technology companies and experts to bring them in for assistance, as government work—especially within the department under the speaker’s jurisdiction—has been neglected and lagging behind what it should be. The speaker recalls that in the first four months, they couldn’t even email a PowerPoint from Department of Homeland Security servers if it was longer than six pages, illustrating what they view as backwards thinking that hindered national security. The speaker reflects on the concept of a deep state, admitting that they previously believed it existed but didn’t realize how severe it was. They describe daily efforts to uncover individuals who do not love America and who work within the Department and across the federal government. The overall message conveys uncovering secrecy, internal surveillance concerns, cross-agency connections involving CBP and national labs, collaboration with tech experts, and a strong critique of past departmental conduct and systemic protection failures.

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There's no incentive in government work because the payment system is set up so that if you ask for money, you're just going to get it.

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I discovered that 20 million dead people are marked as alive in the social security database. Most fraud doesn't come directly from social security payments, but from disability, unemployment, and fake medical payments because these individuals are incorrectly marked as alive. We need to implement a simple "are you alive" check to prevent these fraudulent payments. This type of negligence would result in a public company being immediately delisted, and its executives imprisoned, but it's considered normal within the government. Therefore, I recommend that the Treasury and Federal Reserve make payment categorization codes mandatory, requiring an explanation for each payment, even if it's basic. This change would significantly improve the current system and potentially save hundreds of billions of dollars annually.

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A basic search of the Social Security database revealed 20 million dead people marked as alive. While it's unclear if they're directly receiving Social Security payments, their "alive" status allows them to fraudulently obtain disability, unemployment, and fake medical payments. The fraud occurs because government databases don't communicate well. For example, the Treasury's main payments computer, PAM, handles $5 trillion in payments annually, roughly a billion dollars an hour. We discovered payments lacked categorization codes and descriptions, essentially untraceable blank checks. If a public company operated this way, it would be delisted, and executives would face imprisonment.

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The speaker was asked to help fix retirement in the government and discovered that all paper documents for the retirement process are housed in a mine in Pennsylvania. This mine contains 22,000 filing cabinets stacked 10 high, holding 400 million pieces of paper. The retirement process, largely unchanged since the 1950s, involves physical paperwork and can take many months. Currently, the government can only process about 8,000 retirements a month, with processing times taking six to nine months, and calculations are often incorrect. The goal is to digitize the process, creating an online system that takes only a few days. The speaker believes civil servants are subjected to outdated processes and aims to provide a modern, user-friendly experience. The overhaul is expected to be completed in the next couple of months.

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The discussion centers on the main payments system, referred to as PAM, described as the “payments computer” and commonly called PAM by everyone. PAM is responsible for almost $5,000,000,000,000 in payments per year, which equates to roughly a billion dollars every hour. The speakers indicate that, upon their arrival, they observed what they describe as a severe lack of payment metadata: payments could be processed with no payment categorization code and no description, effectively creating payments that were “untraceable blank checks.” The speakers contrast this situation with how such conduct would be viewed in the private sector, stating that if this were a public company, the company would be immediately delisted and the executive team would be thrown in prison. They emphasize that, in the context they are discussing, this kind of exposure is considered normal within the government. The overall point is that the payments system operates with extremely little traceability or descriptive data attached to transactions, creating a scenario they characterize as highly problematic and unacceptable in the private sector but commonplace in the government.

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Our financial systems are outdated, making it difficult to track trillions of dollars in transactions. Additionally, the lack of compatibility between different technological systems prevents us from sharing information within this building.

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Transnational fraud rings, terrorist organizations, and even nation-states are being funded with taxpayer dollars. During the pandemic, one trillion dollars was stolen, with 70% going overseas. For example, one state had more unemployment claims than adults. Romanian criminals used stolen funds for fentanyl and to undermine our democracy. While most public servants are honest, some exploit the system. In one recent case, individuals stole $50 million from Medicaid in under four months. These aren't individual thefts, but organized criminal groups, both domestic and transnational, that we need data and technology to stop.

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Speaker 0 stated that people on LinkedIn take themselves too seriously and avoid risk, so they decided to do the opposite. Currently, they are working on payment computer initiatives to root out fraud and waste. Speaker 0 found that there is no accounting of where payments actually go within the payment computer. When looking at a specific line item, like $20,000,000, it is often unknown where the money is going. Speaker 0 believes this lack of accountability is a huge cause for concern because the upstream entity distributing the money has no checks and balances, making it a significant vector for fraud, waste, and abuse. They claim there is no incentive to respect taxpayer money when working in the government, and incentives determine outcomes.

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Improving government is incredibly difficult. The most difficult challenge is overcoming entropy, a battle physics tells us is impossible to win. The second most difficult is overcoming bureaucracy. It's a monumental struggle; bureaucracy is the penultimate battle in the fight for better government.

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Our government needs new incentives for bureaucracy to adapt and improve since they can't fail like individuals can. The technology revolution has changed private organizations, but our government is lagging behind. Our financial systems are outdated, unable to track trillions of dollars in transactions, and information sharing is hindered by incompatible technological systems.

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We're streamlining the federal bureaucracy, aiming to reduce the workforce. We found a surprising bottleneck: the retirement process. Currently, the maximum number of retirements per month is capped at 10,000 due to a completely manual, paper-based system. The paperwork is stored in a 1950s-era limestone mine, and the speed of the mine shaft elevator limits processing. This antiquated system employs thousands of people whose efforts could be far better utilized elsewhere. The situation is absurd; we need to modernize this process immediately. Imagine the increased efficiency and contribution to the country's goods and services if these employees were redeployed.

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Our financial systems are outdated, hindering our progress. It is estimated that $2.3 trillion in transactions cannot be tracked. Additionally, we face challenges in sharing information within this building due to incompatible and inaccessible technological systems.

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A lot of Americans' money has been stolen through fraud and improper payments. In one of my first hearings, we discovered criminals using social security numbers of dead people or people over 115 years old to get small business loans and steal money from federal programs. We need to work to fix these issues in our legislation, budgets, and appropriations. This is a bipartisan issue; we're addressing money being fraudulently used and stolen. The American people are being robbed blind through improper payments, fraud, and outdated systems. Some federal agencies hire third-party vendors to hold data instead of communicating within the government. We are currently $36 trillion in debt, and we can't afford to keep losing money this way.

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We've found some odd things, like bureaucrats with modest salaries somehow accumulating millions while in their positions. It makes you wonder where that money comes from. It seems taxpayers are footing the bill for this wealth. Basic controls that any company would have are missing at Treasury, like payment categorization codes or comments explaining payments. The "do not pay" list, meant for terrorists and fraudsters, takes up to a year to get on and isn't even used. Departments fail audits because of these missing controls. It boils down to complaint minimization. Approving all payments avoids complaints, even from fraudsters. But we need to complain when money is misspent and demand taxpayer dollars are used wisely. It's just common sense. We even see people claiming Social Security who are 50 years old!

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Our financial systems are outdated, hindering our progress. It is estimated that we are unable to trace $2.3 trillion in transactions. Additionally, the lack of compatibility between various technological systems prevents us from sharing information within this building.

Modern Wisdom

Inside DOGE, The IRS & How to Scam the US Government - Sam Corcos

Guests: Sam Corcos

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Sam Corcos describes a leap from private-sector tech to government service, joining Treasury to fix the IRS’s sprawling, famously troubled modernization program. He was brought in under a Doge-adjacent arrangement to help land the plane on a multibillion-dollar IT effort that had run years past its original five-year target. He explains that, in government, the chief information officer is not simply a CTO but a leadership role often filled by nontechnical career staff, because there were no rigorous standards for the job. Believing in structural change, the administration authorized sweeping action: around 50 people from IRS IT were placed on administrative leave and replaced by technically capable engineers. Corcos emphasizes that this shift was intended to inject real technical authority into decisions about contracts, vendors, and architecture. Within weeks the dialogue turns to the realities of government procurement, where incentives and process can block meaningful reform. Corcos describes a world where a single vendor drama—where prices can surge from pilot pricing to multi-year renewals—exposes how the system can price gouge while pretending to be fixed. He cites examples such as do not pay lists for fraud prevention and the repetition of 20x price hikes after contract renegotiations, revealing a misalignment between decision-makers who rarely pay the money and engineers who understand the systems. The procurement process itself is described as a labyrinth: competitive bidding, value-added resellers, and a heavy reliance on contractors who often commute billions of dollars of spending without commensurate returns. The result, he says, is mounting complexity, 108 sources of truth across IT, and chronic delays. Corcos also highlights broader cultural and leadership issues. He contrasts the bureaucratic inertia with Doge’s high-agency ethos, yet notes the fragility of reforms when leadership changes or when salaries and hiring lanes discourage talent from staying. He cites the mainframe-heavy reality of IRS systems, the need for data integrity, and the push to stop shadow IT by aligning engineering talent with mission-critical work. He stresses that progress depends on leadership that values technical competence, reallocation of resources, and cross-agency collaboration—an area where the Treasury, IRS, and other agencies are beginning to work together to fix procurement, hiring, and technology lifecycles.

My First Million

What’s truly going on inside DOGE?

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The discussion centers around Iron Mountain, a company that stores vast amounts of paperwork, including government files, in a limestone mine. The hosts highlight that Iron Mountain is valued at over $30 billion, surpassing companies like Snapchat and Twitter. They recount a story about its origins, starting with a mushroom farmer who transformed his cave into a secure storage facility for documents in the 1950s. The company now manages around 80 million square feet of storage, housing everything from legal documents to priceless art. Elon Musk's recent comments about the federal retirement process reveal that the government relies on Iron Mountain for storing retirement paperwork, which is still largely manual. The inefficiencies in this system lead to delays in processing retirements, taking up to 90 days. Despite attempts to digitize the process since the 1980s, these efforts have repeatedly failed due to bureaucracy and the nature of the workforce. The conversation also touches on current events involving Elon Musk, including his interactions with Donald Trump and his interest in acquiring OpenAI. Musk's approach to business and layoffs is critiqued for lacking empathy, especially as it affects real people's lives. The hosts express fascination with Musk's energy and the chaotic nature of his ventures, while also discussing the broader implications of government spending and the challenges of balancing efficiency with compassion in the workplace. The episode concludes with a light-hearted proposal for field trips to observe various companies and industries firsthand.