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Speaker 1 questions the letter's truth; Speaker 2 confirms, "Yeah. I mean, it's it's real." They reference Nick Fuentes claiming Israel killed Charlie and mention "the call, like, Israel called him and told him to to to." Speaker 2 summarizes Charlie's Israel stance as nuanced: "he wanted people who controlled The Holy Land to be civilized people" and "didn't want it to be in the hands of Islam," preferring "a civilized group ... friendly to the West" over hostile Muslim nations. He was frustrated at being unable to criticize Israel without being labeled an anti Semitic, and had vehement disagreements about how the war was prosecuted and messaged; he wanted it to be over and saw more freedom to criticize America than Israel. "Even Tucker Carlson" noted Charlie Kirk's anti Semitic labeling; "BB's comments" were odd; he hosted critics like Dave Smith and recognized that "young people were much more Israeli skeptic," arguing that silencing debate would be a "huge disservice to the conservative movement."

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Charlie mentioned Tucker and Candace forty eight hours earlier as they were trying to control who he's allowed to speak to. He was worried that Israel was infringing upon speech in America; "I have text messages to that effect." He was genuinely pro Israel; "there was nothing. there was not payment that was coming in." Toward the end, he was "over it towards the end because of Jewish behavior". Less than forty eight hours before he died, "Charlie announces that he has no choice but to abandon the pro Israel cause because of Jewish donors and their behavior living up to these stereotypes." We never said "Israel killed Charlie Kirk." "I am uncomfortable with how many lies people that support Israel have been telling in the wake of his death."

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Asked about the last meeting with Charlie, it wasn't 'about, like, this is what you should say,' but 'talking through the issues' with Charlie asking questions and 'then saying, Okay, I think I'm going to approach this issue this way and this is going to be my position on it.' They discussed 'USA to Israel,' and 'I'm opposed to USA to Israel. I want it to be drawn down,' noting Netanyahu's stance. They talked through 'why is Israel actually an American interest?' 'Why is it in America's interest to support Israel?' Charlie was a listener, and 'the open marketplace of ideas' was a core fundamental. He believed in that, which is why he annoyed people by platforming Tucker Carlson and others, because for Charlie, 'the idea that you're supposed to silence any opinion was anathema.' 'Do I think he went too far with it? Well, yes.'

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Speaker 0 says Charlie bridged foreign policy gaps due to "genuine affection for Israel," and he privately expressed that he "love Israel." He argued, "we should not have another forever war, regime change war against Iran," and that view made him approachable because "this person doesn't hate me. It doesn't need to get existential. It's not about disliking me or some weird bigotry." He urged continuing in "the spirit that he operated in, which is one of love for other people, including people we disagree with." Speaker 1 notes Charlie was "a hardliner on immigration" who "wanted us to control our borders as much as possible" and who "wanted us to ramp up the deportations." He recalls Charlie asking, "why aren't the deportations higher? Why aren't you doing more?" He adds, "I'm a free citizen. I love you guys. I supported you guys, and I'm going to use my platform to try to accomplish as much good as I possibly can." He concludes, "I think that made him such an effective operator."

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- "Charlie Kirk is the pro Zionist guy." - "What if they were listening in to him and he was in communications with people saying, hey. I think I'm gonna go this direction and they knew his intentions or saw this pattern." - "Here's this pro Zionist guy with this incredibly powerful platform that they built, by the way, that Charlie has, thanks to them." - "So if he's gonna take what they gave him and turn it against them, that could literally destroy Israel because the youth is people they're most concerned about." - "We can't let him turn." - "Israel was never my top suspect until, you know, I've spent twenty four hours thinking about it, I'm like, it's not unreasonable. It's not even out of the question in terms of would Israel do this." - "it's in their wheelhouse."

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Charlie was trying to navigate this to keep the Nick Fuentes, neo Nazi, groyper stuff at bay while meeting Gen Z on their terms and guiding them toward a better place without the outmoded rhetoric and talking points of the 1970s, 1980s boomers. He aimed to "hold the line, to keep the Fuentes, Ruiper stuff decidedly on the fringe, very much out of the tent, at the movement." Charlie saw himself as a coalition leader of really MAGA, of the American right there, and sought a middle-ground foreign policy between Ron Paul isolationism and George W. Bush neoconservatism. Ali is probably why he gravitated towards my book and the Trump doctrine—conservative realist nationalist middle ground between the two poles. Think that's kind of why Charlie and I kind of saw eye to eye to eye analysis towards the end of his life. I think Tucker Carlson is a malicious anti Semite. I think he is the most dangerous anti Semite in the history of The United States.

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The speaker says a figure has annoyed the Jewish community over the last few months with criticisms of Israel. He cites a Jerusalem Post piece about backlash after Tucker Carlson spoke at SAS, where people were calling him an anti Semite. "I know Charlie and here he's little do they know half the time he's on college campuses, all he's doing is Hasbara and defending Israel. And he doesn't even wanna be. He doesn't even know the issues that well, but he's forced to." "But he dutifully with a smile on his face, defends Israel left and right." We saw him in England, at the debate, passionately defending Israel. And that's not even what he wants to be doing. Now he's getting criticized as an anti Semite. So I wrote that piece in the Jerusalem Post basically saying, listen, everybody. Stop with the purity tests for every single view that he has to line up with, I don't know, B. B. Cabinet decisions. "Relax. Okay? This is our greatest ally. Yes, he has questions. Yes, he's influenced by the other side as well." "Good. I'm talking to him."

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From Israel's perspective, "Charlie Kirk is the pro Zionist guy. He is the pro Israel guy." The speaker notes that without context it wouldn’t make sense to claim Israel would kill him, but asks what if they were listening and he was in communications with people saying, "hey. I think I'm gonna go this direction and they knew his intentions or saw this pattern." They describe "this pro Zionist guy with this incredibly powerful platform that they built, by the way, that Charlie has, thanks to them," and warn that if "he's gonna take what they gave him and turn it against them" it "could literally destroy Israel because the youth is people they're most concerned about." Charlie "is the dude when it comes to Israel." "We can't let him turn" and if he starts to turn and "we take him out before he ever really genuinely turns, and then he's the Zionist martyr"—blame on the Palestinian—could "unify the right" and silence critics. The speaker concedes: "I Israel was never my top suspect" but now thinks "it's not unreasonable" and that "it's in their wheelhouse." It shows how much they needed Charlie Kirk—"nobody's gonna be defending them anymore" and "their reputation is in the toilet."

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Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss Charlie's approach. They note his genuine affection for Israel, and his private belief: "I love I don't think we should have another forever war, regime change war against Iran," which helped him bridge foreign-policy gaps because "this person doesn't hate me" and "it's not about disliking me or some weird bigotry." They caution against outsiders claiming to represent his cause. Charlie is described as a hardliner on immigration—"why aren't the deportations higher?"—yet he remained a constructive voice, saying, "I'm a free citizen. I love you guys," and using pressure to push for good outcomes rather than divisiveness. He worried about turning Iran strikes into a "regime change war," supported Israel, and, while backing strikes on a nuclear facility, insisted "no more" and "this can't become a bigger thing." He "never bent. He never became better" and kept integrity to the very end.

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Benjamin Netanyahu is not the same as the nation of Israel at all. "Bibi is despised by many people, in Israel." There are "huge divisions within the Israeli government," and "parts of the intel world in Israel that do not support some things Benjamin Netanyahu has done recently." "his attempt to hijack Charlie's memory and use it for his own political ends, particularly because what he said was completely untrue." "Charlie didn't hate Jews. He loved Jews. He loved the state of Israel, loved going there." He "did not like Bibi Netanyahu, and he said that to me many times, and to people around him many times." "He felt that Bibi Netanyahu was a very destructive force." He was "appalled by what was happening in Gaza," and he "resented Netanyahu using The United States to prosecute his wars for the benefit of his country, and that it was shameful and embarrassing and bad for The United States."

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Charlie Charlie's position on Israel was very clear. "I like them more than I like Hamas." He added, "I just wish I was free to criticize Israel and not be labeled an anti Semite, because I can criticize my own government and not be called anti American." "But why do I have more freedom to do that and not criticize, you know, a foreign government?" He felt his bona fides in that respect were unassailable and that he should have the freedom to say, "hey. It's time to end the war." On Tucker, "we took some pushback. We lost some donors." It's not necessarily Jewish donors. A clip described: "I don't appreciate being morally blackmailed." Was Charlie offered $150,000,000 from Israel? "As far as I know, no." "We would have said no. We only took American money." During the pandemic, he refused to do mass layoffs that everybody else in the country was doing, "Said no to the stimulus check." "Deal with them. Get rid of them."

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Speaker argues that 'you and the Likud party are cut from the same ideological cloth as Trump and the GOP in America.' They reference 'Charlie Kirk's assassination, who was a big mentor of mine' and say 'Evangelicals, from all my research, evangelicals are the reason that Israel has been supported in public sphere outside of just Jews.' They note 'So with Charlie's assassination and with the kind of trajectory that we see with, like, Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson.' They ask 'what's another game plan if we lose evangelical support for the state of Israel.' 'What's our backup plan to be strong, like outside of the diaspora?'

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Speaker 0: Is the media totally presenting the truth when it comes to Israel? Just a question. You know, look at Maybe we shouldn't believe everything. Look at that. Maybe we shouldn't believe everything. Here too, but they got Charlie Kirk, and it's just heartbreaking. Who's they, b b? Who's they? You got Charlie Carter.

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Charlie was loyal to people with whom he had shared history. He would never say an ill word about Candace and refused moral blackmail. He stayed loyal to old donors and Turning Point colleagues, avoided airing dirty laundry, and, though he disagreed with Candace and Tucker on the Israel issue, he recognized Tucker’s value and invited him to events. He could not be controlled or bought, and when faced with threats to cut large donations, he reacted with defiance: “screw me. No. Screw you.” He loved Israel and the Holy Land, and, amid a surge of anti-Israel sentiment on the right, he tried to chart a path forward for sympathizers. He wrote to Bibi: “You are losing the PR war. You need to change how you do your PR. You need to change your messaging to the American right,” suggesting a more passive relationship and opposing Islamic migration. He vented privately when accused of antisemitism, but publicly avoided such disclosures.

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As he was preparing for his campus tour, he decided that he wanted to have a meeting. Josh Hammer was on the call. I was on the call and a couple of Charlie's staff to talk through Israel issues. He was he was really grappling with these issues. I remember right after October 7, I was a little concerned about some of the things he was saying afterwards, and I wasn't so emotional. But I realized Charlie was looking at a lot of the Israel America stuff through the America first lens. The fact that he was meeting with you to refine his talking points, I assumed there was a lot of pushback. When when, you know, that reporter asked me what the mood of the meeting was, and I said it was combative. There's also within him a very faithful, bible believing evangelical Christian.

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This transcript describes a discussion with Orthodox friends about Charlie inviting Tucker Carlson. It notes there is nowhere safe for them in the world, and they have an inclination to trust no one, yet Charlie remains patient, engaging in dialogue with Tucker and Candace Owens, while also texting with Orthodox rabbis. The speaker commends Charlie for his patience and dialogue. The speaker responds to an Orthodox brother who claimed Candace is far right and Ocasio-Cortez far left, and that they both hate Jews. The speaker says Candace and AOC appear to operate their influence by pathos and ethos, and apply very little logos. They use pathos and ethos to judge and condemn an entire race of people. This is not framed as a political polarization issue (far right or far left) but as mob rule by emotion and perceived legitimacy void of the pursuit of truth. The speaker asserts that this dynamic is a reason America, for now and hopefully more in the future, is a somewhat safe haven for Jews because it is a republic. A link to a video was provided to illustrate or support this point.

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Charlie Kirk faced mounting pressure about Israel debates. "I'm an American citizen. Yes. I want Israel to win. Yes. I'm a Christian." He says "the sum of the mess" and that "my moral character is now being put into question" while insisting "I love Israel. I want Israel to win." He recalls "thousands of tweets" and a pattern "similar to what my grandparents saw in nineteen thirties Germany online?" as well as threats to "pull out money" and "nasty text messages." The discussion centered on Tucker Carlson and why Charlie would allow voices like "Dave Smith, who by the way is Jewish" on stage. Beebe Netanyahu allegedly staged "an intervention" by "Bill Ackman" with "threats" after which Charlie "denied that funding" and was invited to Israel, an invitation Charlie "said no to Bebe." "Just take the last step, Charlie." Charlie was praying the rosary. Charlie was going to mass.

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Over the past year and a half I became closer to Charlie Kirk, joining a group chat he called his 'brain trust.' We discussed Israel, Jewish–Christian relations, antisemitism. He was an adamant opponent of antisemitism. Campus talks exposed him to questions, including about the Talmud, and he provided 'very good answers'—'better answers than probably 98% of Jews probably could offer there.' We strategized to turn back the tide against rising antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiment. Charlie said roughly half, 50% of the questions that he got asked were all on Israel, Jews. He organized a Zoom call the night before Utah Valley University event, the first stop of a tour, with me, Pesach Willicki, producers, and one Christian pastor. The fact that he was seeking our counsel... calls into question this narrative that he was getting ready to renounce his lifelong support for the Jewish people, for the state of Israel.

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Good faith is the measure: 'If you were good faith, you're on his team.' They warn against appropriating his memory for parochial ends. He bridged foreign policy gaps with genuine affection for Israel: 'I love Israel. I don't think we should have another forever war, regime change war against Iran.' Charlie was a hardliner on immigration, wanting to 'control our borders' and asking, 'why aren't the deportations higher?' He believed 'Pressure is a friend. Pressure is somebody who cares deeply about the issue.' He warned that Iran strikes could become a regime change war: 'This can't become a bigger thing. This can't become a broader thing.' He could support Israel and 'did eventually support the strikes on the nuclear facility while simultaneously saying no more.' Donors to Turning Point were 'very tough on him... under enormous pressure.' 'He never bent. He never became better.' His integrity 'to the very end.'

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Charlie Kirk's perspective on Israel was not starting to shift. It had shifted entirely. Israel knew that. Turning Point USA knew that because Charlie was explicit. He wrote of his deep love for Israel. About forty eight hours before Charlie Kirk died, Charlie informed people at Turning Point, as well as Jewish donors and a rabbi that he had no choice but to abandon the pro Israel cause outright. Charlie was done. He said it explicitly that he refused to be bullied anymore by the Jewish donors. Did he express that? Did he also express that he wanted to bring me, Candace Owens, back because he was standing up for himself? And then did he, just forty eight hours later, conveniently catch a bullet to the throat before our on stage reunion could happen?

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Speaker 1 says he met Charlie when he was a teenager, connected to Foster Freeze, “the wonderful man from Wilmington, Delaware… the only investor I've ever had in anything.” Foster told him Charlie “he's not going to college,” which the speaker, opposed to college, found initially skeptical yet saw him as smart. After a backstage Q&A turned into an intense exchange—“I was gonna give a speech and we have a debate”—they began spending time together; Charlie “never used any drugs in his whole life” and was libertarian on the subject. Their conversations on economics, foreign policy, and marijuana led to mutual re-evaluations; “I was totally wrong about everything” and “the things you thought were gonna work didn't.” Charlie's honesty is celebrated: “Only belief in God allows that” and “admitting the truth about yourself in public is the most edifying and important thing you can ever do.”

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Charlie was loyal to people he had shared history with; he would say, "We're friends." He would never say an ill word about Candace, and if pressed to attack Tucker, he would be defiant because he didn't wanna be morally blackmailed. He remained loyal to donors and Turning Point staff and would not air any dirty laundry. He did disagree with Candace on the Israel issue and with Tucker on Israel, but "Tucker was a useful voice in the conservative movement on many things," and he invited him to events. "You could not buy him he was not bought and paid for." He loved Israel and cared about the holy Land, aware of anti-Israel sentiment on the right. He wrote to Bibi: "You are losing the PR war," signaling PR changes, including American support and opposing Islamic migration. He vented to pro-Israel peers and kept it to avoid betraying friends.

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Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 address a group text shared by Kent Owens; the text grab is authentic and, though private, was released to show public frustrations and pursue justice for Charlie. They say they wanted no stone unturned in the first 33 hours of the investigation. As Turning Point USA spokesman, they caution that public statements could affect an ongoing case. Charlie's Israel views are described as nuanced and public: he cared about Israel, read a 700-page history, wanted the Gaza war to end, did not want American troops or Palestinian refugees, saw Hamas as the aggressor, and noted antisemitism rising. A Megyn Kelly clip is cited: "I love Israel. I want Israel to win." Charlie remained defiant, refusing to be cowed into deplatforming Tucker, upholding "free speech be our north star."

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During the segment, the speakers address a private text exchange released by Kent Owens. They confirm the screen grab is authentic but say it was private; it was shared with a few government officials because rapid events followed the incident. They note that authorities identified a suspect within 33 hours and emphasize “no stone unturned” in pursuit of justice for Charlie. One speaker, an eyewitness, says they avoid public comments to not affect a trial. They affirm free speech as a guiding principle and defend Charlie's public stance on Israel as nuanced but consistent. Charlie wrestled with Israel for months; he read about the conflict and warned against anti-Israel sentiment online. He believed Hamas started the war and could end it; Israel represented European civilization, Hamas Middle Eastern barbarism. He loved and cared about Israel.

This Past Weekend

Tucker Carlson | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #628
Guests: Tucker Carlson
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The episode centers on a wide‑ranging exchange between Theo Von and Tucker Carlson, blending politics, culture, media, and personal candor. Carlson sits with Von to reflect on leadership, sincerity, and the fragility of modern institutions, moving from jokey banter about wellness products to earnest debates about how truth, power, and influence shape public life. They discuss Carlson’s brand and the pressures of being perceived as an agitator or reformer, with him describing sincerity as a dangerous weapon in a media landscape prone to branding dissent as hate. The conversation then pivots to substantive political issues, including how Israel and Gaza are discussed in U.S. media, the ethics of intervention, and the responsibilities of public figures when asked to defend or question official narratives. The dialogue explores fear, meaning, and moral clarity, arguing that love for the people close to you and telling the truth are the anchors of a meaningful life amid systemic decay. It closes with reflections on the future of media, the role of leadership, and a personal resolve to resist cynicism by engaging with ideas honestly, even when they provoke controversy or misinterpretation. Weaving through the footage of contemporary conflicts and online discourse, the hosts critique how power brokers, tech platforms, and cultural gatekeepers shape what counts as acceptable speech. They debate the integrity of institutions, the perils of censorship, and the temptation to simplify complex geopolitical crises into neat narratives. The episode also scrutinizes how fame, money, and corporate influence interact with public opinion, including candid remarks about the business of nicotine products and the personalities who propel or undermine legitimacy in media, politics, and entertainment. The long discussion delves into questions of control, perception, and adaptability in a world that feels unstable and opaque. It touches on moral philosophy—the idea of meaning derived from loving real people and speaking honestly—and contrasts it with a modern climate of fear, labeling, and factionalism. The guests also examine how technology, social media, and conspiracy theories influence political engagement, urging a pivot toward principled dialogue, personal responsibility, and creative resilience in the face of a changing information ecosystem.
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