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Jim Rickards joins Julia for an in-person discussion that covers macro trends, political strategy, financial markets, gold, and the evolving role of the dollar and eurodollar system. Rickards argues Trump’s first year in the second term featured a deliberate “flood the zone” tactic, part of a playbook from Steve Bannon and others. He says the aim was to push a large number of initiatives daily, outpacing Democratic responses with a steady stream of actions and executive orders, while loyalty among staff was vetted through a detailed process. He highlights Project 2025, a Heritage Foundation initiative with over 200 contributors, as the playbook for post-2016 planning, with a cadre of loyalists in key positions (e.g., Kash Patel, Pam Bondi) and a strategy to act quickly, using an aggressive communications and policy cadence. He notes that while district court injunctions have blocked some moves, the administration has enjoyed success at the appellate and Supreme Court levels, where they have more favorable outcomes (roughly 50% reversal rate at appeals, 9 out of 10 at the Supreme Court). On the economy, Rickards rejects the notion of chaos and uncertainty, arguing the administration’s economic program is coherent and grounded in three pillars. First, debt dynamics: the national debt is around $39 trillion with a roughly $2 trillion annual deficit, and the critical metric is the debt-to-GDP ratio (about 125% currently). He emphasizes that debt can be rolled over rather than paid off, and the ratio can be reduced if nominal growth outpaces deficits. He recalls post-World War II and 1980’s bipartisan efforts that reduced the ratio from 114% to 30% over ~35 years, driven by nominal growth (including inflation), not by eliminating debt. The objective is to achieve deficits at or below 3% of GDP, nominal growth at or above 3% (real growth plus inflation), and a goal of increasing oil production to about 3,000,000 additional barrels per day to spur growth. He stresses this requires bipartisan cooperation and a unified budget strategy (budget reconciliation helps bypass the filibuster). Second, the “debASement trade” narrative is challenged. Rickards argues the Wall Street narrative that foreign holdings of treasuries imply a coming dollar debasement is false. He cites the Treasury Tick Report showing that foreign holders have not been dumping treasuries; rather, if anything, they are quietly managing maturities and facing a global dollar shortage, not a broad withdrawal from treasuries. He explains reserves are securities, not cash, and that central banks and sovereigns hold U.S. Treasuries to back their own banking systems, not to hoard cash. He also explains the eurodollar market—where banks lend to each other using dollars—as the driver of real money in the economy, with the Fed’s actions largely sterilized on its own balance sheet. Third, gold as an anchor and hedge: Rickards has long argued gold’s price path is a signal of dollar purchasing power relative to gold, with gold acting as a store of value in both inflationary and deflationary environments. He reiterates his case for gold moving toward 5,000 and potentially much higher, even to 10,000, 25,000, or higher under certain macro scenarios. He notes that central banks have shifted from net sellers to net buyers since 2010, with large accumulations by Russia, China, and others, providing a base support for gold. He emphasizes that the dollar’s value is better measured by weight in gold than by nominal price, arguing that a dollar collapse would be reflected in the gold price by a significant multiple. He contrasts the historical path from 35 in 1971 to 800 in 1980 as a 94% devaluation, suggesting a similar trajectory could yield extreme gold prices if the dollar continues to lose purchasing power. On gold’s drivers beyond inflation, Rickards discusses Russia’s gold holdings and sanctions. Russia’s central bank, led by Elvira Nabiullina, allocated 25% of reserves to gold, contributing to resilience despite sanctions and frozen assets. He notes the Russian ruble’s relative strength and argues the sanctions environment created incentives for nations to diversify into gold. He also points to military and defense spending as catalysts for gold and silver dynamics, with silver possibly outperforming gold due to its industrial uses and defense applications, even in a bear market. He highlights the global risk environment, including geopolitics and defense tech concerns, and asserts that gold’s role extends beyond simply hedging inflation. Toward the end, Rickards shares a bold and provocative forecast: a potential future shock could arise from unexpected political moves (examples include unilateral actions like seizing disputed territories or reconfiguring NATO), with a broader commentary that geopolitical shifts could alter alliance structures and economic arrangements. He emphasizes diversification across asset classes as prudent—stocks plus gold, treasury notes, and cash—to weather unforeseen events. In closing, Rickards reiterates that the key to resilience is a diversified portfolio and a practical, not token, approach to risk management. He and Julia thank the audience as the discussion wraps, underscoring the complexity and interconnectedness of macro policy, geopolitical risk, and financial markets.

Speaker: The thing that makes the current system what they would call slavery is debt-based and secrecy. And the failure of their elected representatives to require, you know, to get obey the law. So you have lawlessness, you have debt-based, and you have secrecy. The problem is not that the currency is fiat. Because if you go back through history, if you read Alexander Del Mar, the most effective currencies in the world are fiat currencies that are well governed. We have a debt-based fiat currency that is not well governed in my opinion, but it could be. Now remember, there has been almost no support in the general population for managing it responsibly. Everybody was like, no. Don’t manage it responsibly. Get me my check. And if that means you’re irresponsible, that’s okay. I want my check. But you are not gonna fix this situation by going to gold and silver. You’re gonna make it much worse. Because while we’ve done this sort of hear no evil, see no evil, you know, speak no evil for thirty years, the central bankers have accumulated all the gold. So now that they have all the gold, you’re gonna tell me we’re gonna go to a gold system? Are you out of your mind? Because now they’ve got the gold. And if you start a gold transaction system, now you need gold from them, and they’ve got you over a barrel. Right? And what are you gonna do to get gold? You’re gonna have to sell your land. You’re gonna have to sell your kids. You’re gonna have to sell real assets to get their gold. Right? Why would you do that? Why would you create, you know, you’re dependent on your enemy now. You’re gonna increase your dependency on your enemy now? You’re out of your mind. Okay. That’s not a sound money system, especially because they wanna make it digital. And so they’re gonna have fiat gold, which is even— I mean, if you think fiat is bad, where do you see fiat gold when they own all the gold? So, what we want is we want a fiat system, and we want it with, you know, lawful and no secrecy or minimal secrecy. You’re gonna have to have some secrecy and a good governance system. Can we get there? Of course, we can get there. But we can’t get there if you have an entire population that is absolutely committed to corrupt short-term behavior.

Speaker 0 says that while businesses will accept US dollars, they prefer pesos, even though both are worthless fiat currencies backed by nothing. He then asks Speaker 1 if he is still waiting for the Iraqi dinar to increase in value. Speaker 1 expresses disbelief that the Iraqi dinar conspiracy theory is still circulating. He recalls people asking him years ago if they should buy dinar based on the theory that it would be backed by gold, which he dismissed. He recommends J Proof over the Iraqi dinar, US dollar, and Euro. He also suggests Monero because it is untrackable. Speaker 0 asks if Speaker 1 would only buy J Proof if the choice was between it and the Iraqi dinar. Speaker 1 responds that he already owns some J Proof.

XRP is believed to have significant advantages both inside and outside the US. Outside the US, Russia, facing SWIFT sanctions, has expressed its intention to use XRP as an alternative. This move could potentially impact the gold price and weaken the dollar. Inside the US, there are concerns about the rejection of treasury bonds at ports, which could lead foreign nations to demand gold or a gold equivalent from US vendors like Walmart and Target. While the US may not accept the gold token, there is a possibility of compromise with XRP. It is believed that XRP could play a crucial role in saving the US economy and maintaining import supply.

Speaker 0 and Speaker 1 discuss the Ukraine conflict as part of a broader geopolitical strategy attributed to a globalist elite. Speaker 1 contends that globalists in the White House, in Congress, and in European capitals want BlackRock to take over Ukraine to strip its resources and subjugate it to a globalist agenda, and they also aim to destroy Russia. The claim is that the war has never been about Ukraine itself, but about destroying Russia. According to Speaker 1, the people in charge failed to perform strategic analysis, underestimating Russia by treating it as if it were the post-Soviet state of 1992—weak and prostrate. The reference to John McCain’s description of Russia as “Spain with a gas station” is invoked to illustrate this hubris. The argument continues that Russians warned against NATO on their border and about the dangers of Western actions in Eastern Ukraine, but these concerns were ignored. Speaker 1 asserts that the outcome is a dangerous, ongoing war that could become regional or global, with a consequence that the White House is not fully grasping. He predicts a massive Russian offensive when ground conditions permit, foreseeing that much of what is currently identified as Ukraine—especially the Kyiv government—will be swept away. He claims the Kyiv government represents the interests of the globalist elite seeking resources to exploit, not the Ukrainian people. The discussion shifts to broader economic implications, including the potential loss of the petrodollar as Putin engages with Saudi Arabia and China. Speaker 1 frames the war as both military and financial, suggesting that BRICS could expand dramatically and move to a gold-backed currency, whether a single currency or a basket. He asserts that this shift threatens the current global financial system and that the globalists are desperate as a result. The speaker fears that once Ukraine’s fate becomes clear, there will be pressure to deploy US forces into Western Ukraine, with Polish and possibly Romanian troops, which would escalate into a full-scale war with Russia. According to Speaker 1, Putin has shown restraint and does not want a war with the West, but intervention in Western Ukraine could end in open conflict. Speaker 1 also argues that Putin has repeatedly warned against advancing the border toward Russia and transforming Ukraine into a hostile actor, framing what happens in Ukraine as an existential strategic interest to the United States. He contrasts this with a claim that Biden’s stance has prioritized regime change in Russia and the division of Russia to exploit it, while alleging that oligarchs like Kolomovsky, Soros, and others are part of this globalist project. The discussion concludes with criticisms of U.S. military recruitment practices, suggesting the Army and Marines are not prepared for such a conflict, including comments about recruitment of illegals encouraged by the administration.

"the dollars, days as the reserve currency are numbered." "we shortened that number ourselves with a self inflicted wound when Biden announced those crippling sanctions or hope they were intended to be crippling against, Russia." This sent "a strong message to the world that you don't want to hold dollars, that you don't wanna have the US dollar and US treasuries as your reserves because, you know, you run the risk of being punished by the US government." "And so we told the world, get rid of dollars and buy gold, and that's exactly what they've been doing." "That's why the of gold is at an all time record high, you know, despite the fact that retail investors have been selling gold all year." "Gold keeps going up, setting one record after another." "Gold is on pace for its best year since 1979." "That is not a coincidence."

It's interesting how countries are still investing in gold despite the rise of technology and crypto. Gold has been a reliable store of value for 6,000 years because of its high stock-to-flow ratio, making it the most money-like commodity. Central banks have been buying gold since 2014, while not increasing their holdings of treasury bonds. Gold's privacy is another appealing element of the currency. Official data on global gold flows is not transparent, which leads to speculation on movements between countries. China is buying gold to internationalize the renminbi and challenge the dominance of the dollar and euro. The US doesn't want gold in the system because they are managing currency systems.

Speaker 0: The United States just lost a war it didn't even know it was fighting. While Washington celebrates military victories and economic growth numbers, the real battlefield has shifted to the global payment system. This week, something unprecedented happened in the shadows of international finance. Brazil quietly activated the Brixbridge system. For the first time in eighty years, major economies completed cross-border transactions without touching a single US bank. The American media is not reporting this story, but I can tell you, as someone who spent decades inside the system, this is not just another trade deal. This is the financial equivalent of splitting the atom, and the explosion is coming. The United States has enjoyed what we call monetary imperialism for nearly a century. Every time you buy oil, coffee, or electronics anywhere in the world, those transactions flow through New York banks. Washington collects a tax on every trade, every investment, every breath of the global economy, but that monopoly just ended, and most people don't even realize it happened. My name is Paulo Nogueira Batista junior. I served as executive director at the International Monetary Fund. I sat across the table from finance ministers of collapsing nations. I know how empires fall. They don't collapse from outside invasions. They collapse when their money stops working. And the American money is about to stop working. And the explanation of what happened this week in Brazil: President Lula signed an executive order that sounds boring to most people, but this order just declared independence from The US financial system. Brazil can now trade directly with Russia, China, India, and South Africa using our own central bank digital currencies. No dollars. No swift system. No permission from Washington. Think about what our country has achieved. Every international bank transfer in the world flows through this Belgian company controlled by the US Treasury until now. Till the BRICS Bridge is not just an alternative to SWIFT. It is a declaration of war against monetary colonialism, and it's working. In November 2024, Russia and China settled $20,000,000,000 in bilateral trade using this new system. In December, India and Brazil completed energy transactions worth $15,000,000,000. By January 2025, South Africa joined the network. The numbers are still small compared to the global economy, but remember, every revolution starts with small numbers. The Internet started with a few university computers.

The speakers discuss the idea of a common currency for the BRICS countries, led by China and Russia and potentially backed by gold. They question the realism of Sergei Glasyev's optimism about Russia becoming the third financial power after China and India. However, they emphasize that the BRICS countries are not looking to create a separate economic bloc but rather seek reforms within existing global organizations like the World Health Organization, World Trade Organization, and IMF. They also mention Russia's oil exports to India and the potential impact of a gold-backed BRICS currency on the average person, suggesting it may not have much significance.

The speaker argues that "the dollars, days as the reserve currency are numbered" and claims this was worsened by "a self inflicted wound when Biden announced those crippling sanctions or hope they were intended to be crippling against, Russia." This, they say, sent a strong message that "you don't want to hold dollars, that you don't wanna have the US dollar and US treasuries as your reserves because, you know, you run the risk of being punished by the US government." "If you do something that the US government doesn't approve of, you could be sanctioned, and you may lose, those reserves at a time when you really need them." Consequently, "And so we told the world, get rid of dollars and buy gold, and that's exactly what they've been doing." They note "that's why the of gold is at an all time record high, you know, despite the fact that retail investors have been selling gold all year." "Gold keeps going up, setting one record after another." "Gold is on pace for its best year since 1979." "That is not a coincidence."

Larry Johnson and Glenn discuss the shifting dynamics of the US dollar, the international financial system, and the rise of competing powers. - Johnson recalls the 1965 term exorbitant privilege describing the US dollar’s reserve-currency advantages. In 1971, the US closed the gold window, ending fixed gold value for the dollar; the dollar later became backed by “our promise,” enabling the petrodollar system as oil purchases were conducted in dollars. The dollar’s dominance rested on predictability, a stable legal system, and non-abusive use of the dollar as an economic tool rather than a political weapon. - Trump-era sanctions expanded broadly, impacting friends and adversaries alike, and BRICS nations began moving away from the dollar. Russia’s disconnection from SWIFT after its 2022 actions is noted as a turning point that encouraged the BRICS’ development of alternative financial infrastructure, including China’s cross-border interbank payment system (CIPS). This shift accelerates the decline of the dollar’s dominance. - Nations like Russia and China (and India, Brazil) are unloading US Treasuries and increasing gold and silver holdings. This is tied to concerns about the dollar’s reliability and the reduced faith in paper promises. The BRICS countries reportedly plan a currency tied to gold, with components of their reserves backing individual BRICS currencies, signaling a structural move away from the dollar. - The paper-gold issue is central: for every ounce of real gold, there is a range of 20-to-1 to 100-to-1 in paper gold. This disparity can undermine trust in the paper promise and create a run on physical gold. The price gap between New York (lower) and Shanghai (higher) for gold demonstrates a market dislocation and growing demand for physical metal. - Glenn emphasizes that a unipolar dollar system allows the US to run large deficits via inflation, which acts as a hidden tax on global dollar holders. Weaponizing the dollar through sanctions challenges trust and accelerates decoupling, prompting other nations to seek alternatives to reduce exposure. - Johnson argues that the US is confronting a historic realignment: the Bretton Woods order is dissolving, the dollar’s international dominance is waning, and sanctions and coercive policies are provoking pushback. He highlights Japan as a major remaining dollar treasuries holder that is now offloading, further increasing dollar supply and depressing its value. - The geopolitical implications are significant. Johnson warns that potential US actions against Iran—given their strategic position and the Gulf oil supply—could trigger a severe global disruption, including a price surge in oil. He notes that such actions would complicate global stability and magnify inflationary pressures. - The discussion also covers NATO’s cohesion, Western attempts to shape global alignments, and how rapidly shifting leverage could undermine existing alliances. Johnson suggests that Russia’s strategic gains in the war in Ukraine, combined with Western missteps, may prompt a rapid reevaluation of settlements and borders, while also noting that Russia’s position has hardened. - On Venezuela, Johnson argues that the stated pretexts (drug trafficking, oil control) were questionable and points to economic motives, including revenue opportunities for political allies like Paul Singer, and to Greenland’s strategic interests as possible motivators for US actions. - Looking ahead, Johnson predicts hyperinflation for the United States as the dollar loses value globally, while gold and silver retain value. He asserts that the ruble and yuan may hold value better, and that a mass shift toward de-dollarization is likely to continue, potentially culminating in a new multipolar financial order. - Both speakers agree that trust and predictability are crucial; the current trajectory—threats, sanctions, and unilateral actions—undermines trust and accelerates the move toward alternative currencies and stronger physical-commodity holdings. The overall tone is that a pivotal, watershed moment is unfolding in the global monetary system.

Speaker 0 argues that Venezuela may not want to ally with this Western form of economic exchange, noting they have tried to join BRICS twice but were vetoed by neighboring Brazil. They describe Venezuela as one of the few countries not controlled by private equity oligarchs and central banksters, and say Venezuela pushed back on a monetary exchange that relies on high-interest promissory notes back to Rothschild Boulevard, like Saddam Hussein, Bashar al-Assad, and Muammar Gaddafi. They claim Maduro has effectively been kidnapped, and that Trump said, “kidnapped is fine.” The question is how such events can be real and presented as beneficial to Americans, asserting that economically, there is no benefit to the average citizen or to national security, and that it puts the United States in more imminent, grave danger as the U.S. “agitates around the world,” including in relation to Israel’s enemies. Speaker 1 adds that there will be a political and economic reset, suggesting that silver and gold are at record highs and that gold and silver have tripled historically in short periods, leading to a system reset of sorts. They say Venezuela’s attempts to join the system were to be part of a new framework that Russia, China, Iran and BRICS were trying to create, which would go against the dollar as the global reserve currency and directly affect the U.S. economy. They ask whether this should change. Speaker 0 elaborates that the issue is about flipping countries into the same central banker–controlled monetary exchange system. Speaker 1 notes that Trump, from day one, warned that if you mess with the U.S. dollar or trade outside of the dollar, the U.S. will punish you via sanctions or strikes, and that this is what has been happening. They discuss the possibility that if the system resets and a combination of gold, silver, and possibly crypto or other minerals backs a new dollar or digital currency emerges, the entire game could reset and eliminate these types of issues. In such a scenario, countries might have a looser ability to choose or replace the type of system their country is under.

Jeff and Mario discuss what a trade war, dollar dominance, gold, and de-dollarization mean for the US and the world. They emphasize that gold is a portfolio asset and a safe haven, not a monetary instrument intended to replace the dollar, and that gold’s strength comes from concerns about risky assets rather than inflation alone. Gold’s recent rally is explained as a response to macroeconomic downturn risks and questions around equities like Nvidia, rather than as an inflation hedge, with gold resuming strength as conditions signal downturns. Key points on the dollar and eurodollars: - The dollar remains dominant because there is no replacement for its functions; replacing the dollar system would be like recreating the internet from scratch. - The eurodollar system is a vast, opaque, ledger-based network of offshore US dollar balances that enables global money movement. It is not tied to physical dollars and operates as bank ledgers and interbank communication, making it hard to measure and control. - De-dollarization is described as a political narrative rather than a mechanical monetary shift; central banks sell dollar assets primarily to cope with dollar shortages and liquidity constraints, not to replace the dollar with gold. - The eurodollar system began partly to protect against asset seizure and to provide flexible settlement outside the US jurisdiction; it remains central to global finance and is resistant to rapid replacement. On dollar reserves and central banks: - The share of US dollars in official foreign reserves has declined from about 72% to 58%, but this is not considered a meaningful shift in reserve mechanics; the real impact is in settlements and the dominance of the dollar in 90% of FX settlements. - Yuan and other currencies have risen in FX settlements but do not displace the dollar; they compete to be on the other side of US dollar transactions. - The dollar’s dominance is maintained by the depth and liquidity of Treasury markets; gold serves as a store of value but is not liquid collateral in the same way as Treasuries. Gold, debt, and safety: - Central banks buy gold to diversify reserves and stabilize currencies (e.g., China as a reserve diversification tool and yuan stabilizer). Gold is a store of value, not a primary liquidity instrument. - US debt is criticized as a long-term restraint on growth, but the speaker argues that demand for safety and liquidity keeps demand for US Treasuries robust, preventing a collapse of the Treasury market despite rising deficits. - Gold’s surge is tied to deflationary pressures, banking fragility, and concerns about consumer and corporate credit risk. If collateral quality deteriorates and credit risk grows, demand for safe assets rises, pushing gold higher. On the US and global economies: - The US faces deteriorating credit conditions, with concerns about consumer and corporate credit and collateral issues (e.g., Tricolor, First Republic-like risks); this supports gold’s role as a safe haven. - China faces deflationary pressure, overproduction challenges, and difficulty stimulating domestic demand; this weakens its growth and complicates its role in global demand. - The US and China are in a global trade tension, with potential shifts in productivity and supply chains; the discussion suggests a move toward a multipolar world rather than a simple US decline. Alternative payment and currency developments: - Bitcoin is viewed as a store of value akin to a Nasdaq stock, not a widely usable currency; it could be a modernized version of gold but lacks practical liquidity at scale. - Stablecoins are expected to evolve toward genuine stable value systems, potentially maturing into independent stablecoins that do not rely solely on the dollar. Implications for Russia, Argentina, and other economies: - Russia’s economy remains resilient due to structural factors and, crucially, support from China; fears of quick collapse have not materialized as feared. - Argentina’s experience illustrates eurodollar system constraints; IMF support can be transient, and sustained relief requires more than policy fixes, as the eurodollar network ultimately governs outcomes. Future scenarios and conclusions: - If China and the US escalate, the eurodollar system would likely shrink to a rump, with greater demand for the eurodollar settlement; instability could rise as the system reallocates around non-cooperating powers. - The emergence of private digital currencies and evolving stablecoins could gradually replace some functions of the eurodollar, but a complete replacement would be slow and complex. - The overall outlook is for a more multipolar world, with the US economy continuing to face structural challenges but not a complete collapse; the eurodollar system would gradually adapt to new technologies and currencies, potentially enabling continued but transformed global monetary flows.

The speaker discusses the misuse of money sent to Ukraine, hinting at corruption and depopulation efforts. They mention a digital future for Ukraine by 2030, focusing on technology and AI. The goal is to create a model for a new world order. The speaker urges viewers to consider preserving wealth with gold due to economic instability. They recommend Allegiance Gold for investing in physical gold and silver. Visit protectwithvnn.com or call 855-324 Gold for more information.

Mario: Let's start with Venezuela. Do you think this is a strategy by Trump? Larry: I saw something similar back in 1988. The CIA was involved with trying to provoke Manuel Noriega into taking some sort of action. They could say, oh, well, we gotta go respond to this to set the stage for our military invasion, which I believe that in 2018, Donald Trump signed a finding authorizing a covert action by the CIA to get rid of Maduro. That attempt failed. And now the objective, get control of the oil. That's the number one priority. And I think it's being done with an eye looking forward, recognizing the potential risk. If conflict is renewed with Iran, prospect of the shutdown of Persian Gulf— Mario: Ukraine defeated Russia. Larry: Yeah. That was the plan. Russia's military is now around 1,500,000. Mario: Let’s talk Venezuela. What’s your initial reaction? When John Kuriaki suggested the best indicator is naval movements, and the buildup off Venezuela is significant. I’ve heard they have 14, twelve warships, including the Gerald Ford. Do you think they are bluffing? Is this Trump strategy? Larry: It could be a bluff. I saw something similar in 1988. I was in the CIA’s Central America branch. They tried to provoke Noriega into action to justify invasion, which happened in December 1988. What’s different now is the base infrastructure. In Panama, Quarry Heights was full; Southern Command was there. Southern Command has moved to Miami. The weaponization of the idea of a “supported vs. supporting” commander is reversed here: Southern Command would be subordinate to Special Operations Command. SOCOM cannot fight a conventional war; they’re light infantry, raids, hostage rescue. So the question is: what will the ships actually do? Shells into Venezuela won’t defeat Venezuela. Ground forces would require mass, and Venezuela is three times the size of Vietnam with rugged terrain that favors ambushes. If US troops ashore, you’d stack body bags far beyond Iraq and Afghanistan. Mario: Do Venezuelans have the will to fight Maduro? Larry: Yes. It will rally insurgents from Brazil and Colombia. If we decapitate Maduro, there are loyalists with weapons; an insurgency could follow, and the US would be hard-pressed to pacify it. The State Department’s INL/INSCR reports on narcotics note Venezuela as a transit point for marijuana and some cocaine, with fentanyl less central than claimed by Trump. The 2018 emphasis on Trendy Aragua looked CIA-driven. Trump reportedly signed a covert action finding in 2018 to remove Maduro, leading to the Guaidó fiasco; that covert action included some public diplomacy via USAID. The objective now, as you asked, is oil control and curtailing Russia, China, and Iran’s influence, with an eye toward BRICS. Mario: Could there be a decapitation strike on Maduro, and would someone like Maria take over? Larry: A decapitation strike could spark insurgency; the US would not be able to pacify it. The broader agenda seems to include a strategy to seize oil and reduce regional influence by Russia and China. Venezuela’s role as a transit point and possible BRICS alignment complicates any straightforward regime-change scenario. Mario: Moving to general foreign policy under Trump. The national security strategy (NSS) for 2025 signals a shift, but you question how binding NSS papers are. What did you make of it, and how does it relate to Ukraine? You’ve noted Trump isn’t serious about peace in Ukraine on some occasions. Larry: The NSS is a set of guidelines, not a blueprint. Europe is being asked to step up, the US distancing itself from Europe, and the strategic relationship with Europe is damaged by the perception of long-term reliability and sanctions. The document highlights China as an economic rival rather than an enemy; it criticizes Europe’s defense spending and censorship, and it frames Russia as less of a direct threat than before, though the reality is nuanced. The US-EU relationship is strained, and the US wants Europe to shoulder more of the burden in Ukraine while maintaining strategic pressure. Mario: What about Ukraine? Zelensky’s negotiation posture, security guarantees, and the Moscow terms? Larry: Putin spoke on 06/14/2024 with five Russian demands: Crimea, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, Donetsk, and Luhansk are permanently part of Russia; Ukraine must withdraw its forces from those republics; there must be an election in Ukraine with a legitimately elected president (the Russians argue Zelensky is illegitimate for not holding elections); they suggest a successor to Zelensky and elections within 90 days. Freezing lines in Donbas is not accepted by Russia; the Russians claim further territory may be annexed with referenda. If peace talks fail, Russia is likely to push to occupy Kharkiv, Sumy, Mykolaiv, and Odessa, potentially Kyiv. Western support is insufficient to alter that trajectory, given Russia’s large artillery and drone production. The US and Europe cannot match Russia’s drone and shell output; even if they supply Tomahawks, escalation risks, including nuclear considerations, grow. Russia’s economy and war capacity remain robust, and the BRICS poles are strengthening as Western leverage wanes. Mario: What about sanctions strategy and Russia’s oil revenues? Larry: Oil remains a significant but not decisive portion of Russia’s GDP. The West’s sanctions are not enough to force collapse; Russia has endured the 1990s and remains resilient. BRICS cooperation and the shift to the Global South are changing the global order, with Russia and China deepening ties and reducing Western influence. The war in Ukraine has not produced a decisive Western victory, and the global south is moving away from Western-led sanctions, reshaping geopolitical alignments. Mario, it’s been a pleasure.

On December 9, 2022, Xi Jinping reportedly stated during a state visit to Riyadh that Palestine should be addressed as a state with 1967 borders and a capital in Jerusalem, a claim not covered by Western media but reported in Middle East press. In the afternoon, he invited the six Gulf Cooperation Council states to trade oil and gas in Shanghai for yuan, signaling the end of the Bretton Woods system. The speaker published a commentary on their website asserting that Bretton Woods ended that day, a claim they felt Western media ignored, leading them to develop multicurrency mercantilism as a handbook for understanding future developments. The alternative to the dollar, according to the speaker, is the dollar plus all other currencies and commodities. The ruble, yuan, rand, UAE dirham, Malaysian ringgit, or any currency that two parties to a transaction accept, along with gold, oil, and recently silver and other commodities, can serve as stores of value or economic inputs. The transition to alternatives could be stable unless there is wider war. Historically, transitions from a hegemonic currency to a rival currency have been accompanied by world wars. The dollar replaced sterling after World War I and established dominance after World War II. The central question is whether a new hegemon will emerge and how the United States’ willingness to use violence to preserve hegemony will fare given its growing economic dependence on China and vulnerability. China is not forcing use of the yuan; it invites use, but participants are not obligated. Globalization, the speaker argues, accelerates as more than 40% of the global economy under sanctions (e.g., Iran, Russia) gains optionality to use other currencies, re-integrating with global trade. Russia is engaging in substantial trade with India and China, selling oil and gas, while Iran trades with China as its main oil buyer. Venezuela, previously a major oil supplier to China, faced sanctions; the speaker notes it was invaded yesterday, implying altered trade dynamics. The “Angel Paradox,” named after Norman Angell, posits that sanctions harm the sanctioner more than the sanctioned when interdependent economies go to war; this paradox has been reinforced, particularly with Russia, which has become more sovereign and less dependent on Europe after 19 rounds of sanctions, emerging stronger and contributing to Russia becoming the world’s fourth-largest economy, with the ruble performing well in 2025. Europe, the speaker contends, has weakened due to energy costs, and 19 rounds of sanctions have diminished its growth and industrial capacity. The concept of resiliency, stability, and inflation is highlighted: trading in one’s own currency with partner currencies yields more predictable flows, reduces volatility, and may lower inflation while enabling steadier long-run growth. The speaker notes that more countries have moved to local currency trade since 2022, illustrating the ongoing shift away from hegemonic currencies. Speaker 1 adds that Russia did not anticipate SWIFT exclusion and responded by mandating ruble payments for oil and gas, accelerating the development and globalization of Russia’s own payment system, MIRS, akin to SIPs, and praising Central Bank Governor Elvira Nebolmina for stabilizing the transition.

Mario and Jeff discuss what the current geopolitical and monetary environment means for gold, the US dollar, and the broader system that underpins global finance. - Gold and asset roles - Gold is a portfolio asset that does not compete with the dollar; it competes with the stock market and tends to rise when people are concerned about risky assets. It is a “safe haven store value” rather than a monetary instrument aimed at replacing the dollar. - Historically, gold did not reliably hedge inflation in 2021–2022 when the economy seemed to be recovering; in downturns, gold becomes more attractive as a store of value. Recent moves up in gold price over the last two months are viewed as pricing in multiple factors, including potential economic downturn and questionable macro conditions. - The dollar and de-dollarization - The eurodollar system is a vast, largely ledger-based network of US-dollar balances held offshore, allowing near-instantaneous movement of funds. It is not simply “the euro,” and it predates and outlived any single country’s policy. Replacing it would be like recreating the Internet from scratch. - De-dollarization discussions are driven more by political narratives than monetary mechanics. Central banks selling dollar assets during shortages is a liquidity management response, not a repudiation of the dollar. - The dollar’s dominance remains intact because there is no ready substitute meeting all its functions. Replacing the dollar would require replacing the entire set of dollar functions across global settlement, payments, and liquidity provisioning. - Bank reserves, reserves composition, and the size of the eurodollar market - The share of US dollars in foreign reserves has declined, but this is not seen as a meaningful signal about the system’s functionality or dominance; the real issue is the level of settlement and liquidity, which remains heavily dollar-based. - The eurodollar market is enormous and largely offshore, with little public reporting. It is described as a “black hole” that drives movements in the system and is extremely hard to measure precisely. - Current dynamics: debt, safety, and liquidity - The debt ceiling and growing US debt are acknowledged as concerns, but the view presented is that debt dynamics do not destabilize the Treasury market as long as demand for safety and liquidity remains high. In a depression-like environment, US Treasuries are still viewed as the safest and most liquid form of debt, which sustains their price and keeps yields relatively contained. - Gold is safe but not highly liquid as collateral; Treasuries provide liquidity. Central banks use gold to diversify reserves and stabilize currencies (e.g., yuan), but Treasuries remain central to collateral needs in a broad financial system. - China, the US, and global growth - China’s economy faces deflationary pressures, with ten consecutive quarters of deflation in the Chinese GDP deflator, raising questions about domestic demand. Attempts to stimulate have had limited success; overproduction and rebalancing efforts aim to reduce supply to match demand, potentially increasing unemployment and lowering investment. - The US faces a weakening labor market; recent job shedding and rising delinquencies in consumer and corporate credit markets heighten uncertainty about the credit system. This underpins gold’s appeal as a store of value. - China remains heavily dependent on the US consumer; despite decoupling rhetoric, demand for Chinese goods and the global supply chain ties keep the US-China relationship central to global dynamics. The prospect of a Chinese-led fourth industrial revolution (AI, quantum computing) is viewed skeptically as unlikely to overcome structural inefficiencies of a centralized planning model. - Gold, Bitcoin, and alternative systems - Bitcoin is described as a Nasdaq-stock-like store of value tied to tech equities; it is not seen as a robust currency or a wide-scale payment system based on liquidity. It could, in theory, be a superior version of gold someday, but today it behaves like other speculative assets. - The conversation weighs the potential for a shift away from the eurodollar toward private digital currencies or a mix of public-private digital currencies. The idea that a completely decentralized system could replace the eurodollar is acknowledged as a long-term possibility, but currently, stablecoins are evolving toward stand-alone viability rather than a wholesale replacement. - The broader arc and forecast - The trade war is seen as a redistribution of productive capacity rather than a definitive win for either side; macroeconomic outcomes in the 2020s are shaped by monetary conditions and the eurodollar system’s functioning more than by policy interventions alone. - The speakers foresee a future with multipolarity and a gradually evolving monetary regime, possibly moving from the eurodollar toward a suite of digital currencies—some private, some public—while gold remains a key store of value in times of systemic risk. - Argentina, Russia, and Europe - Argentina’s crisis is framed as an outcome of eurodollar malfunctioning; IMF interventions offer only temporary stabilization in the face of ongoing liquidity and deflationary pressures. - Russia remains integrated with global finance through channels like the eurodollar system, even after sanctions; the resilience of energy sectors and external support from partners like China helps it endure. - Europe is acknowledged as facing a difficult, depressing outlook, reinforcing the broader narrative of a challenging global macro environment. Overall, gold is framed as a prudent hedge within a complex, interconnected, and evolving eurodollar system, with no imminent replacement of the dollar in sight, while the path toward a multi-currency or digital-currency future remains uncertain and gradual.

Jeff: Gold is not a monetary instrument the way people often think. It’s actually easy to understand once you move away from the idea that gold is tied to dollar inflation. Gold is simply a portfolio asset, a store of value, and the preeminent safe haven store value. Gold doesn’t compete with the dollar; it competes with the stock market or risky credit markets. The notion of “de-dollarization” largely comes from political context rather than monetary mechanics. Mario: So gold prices rising—how should we think about that trade? Jeff: Gold tends to go up when people are concerned about risky assets because it’s a safe haven. It performed poorly as an inflation hedge in 2021–2022 when the economy seemed to recover and policymakers seemed to have hit the right policy mix. Now, with conditions leaning toward an economic downturn and “Nvidia AI stocks” looking bubbly, gold has revived as a safe haven. The last two months reflect the factors I’ve cited being priced into the gold market. Mario: People talk about the death of the US dollar. Is gold not tied to that? Jeff: They’ve been talking about de-dollarization for twenty years. The dollar remains dominant because there is no replacement for its functions; replacing it would be like recreating the Internet from scratch. The Eurodollar system grew because it could meet many needs in a flexible way, including for asset-holders who want to keep things in US-dollar terms. If you’re trying to hide assets, you keep them in US-dollar terms, and there are places to do so. Mario: The dollar’s share of foreign reserves has fallen from 72% to 58% in recent years. Doesn’t that show a shift away from the dollar? Jeff: That drop isn’t necessarily meaningful for reserve mechanics. What matters is the level of settlement and payments, which are still 90% in US dollars. The yuan is rising in FX settlements, but it’s not replacing the dollar; it’s competing with other currencies on the other side of the dollar. The dollar is as dominant as ever, and there’s no easy replacement because you’d have to replace all its functions. Replacing the dollar network would be like recreating the Internet—massive, complex, and gradual. Mario: What about the Eurodollar market itself? How big is it? Jeff: Nobody knows. It’s offshore, regulatory offshore, with little reporting; it’s a black hole. Eurodollars are “numbers on a screen,” ledger money, not physical dollars. The Eurodollar system lets money move quickly worldwide through bank-ledger networks, integrating various ledgers. It’s the global settlement mechanism, and its size is effectively unknowable, yet it’s the currency the world uses. Mario: Why do central banks buy gold now, especially China? Jeff: Gold is a portfolio asset, a diversification tool. Central banks must diversify reserves; they still need some US Treasuries for the eurodollar system, but gold helps balance risk. In China’s case, gold supports yuan stability and diversifies reserves beyond US assets. Mario: What happens if a conflict with China disrupts the system? What replaces the dollar or the eurodollar plumbing? Jeff: It’s the great unknown. If there’s a real shooting war, China could be cut off by many, and the dollar system would shrink to those willing to participate. The eurodollar would strengthen as a settlement medium, though with a smaller global footprint. The idea of replacing the eurodollar with a Chinese-led system is unlikely; gold’s role in cross-border settlement remains limited, and gold alone isn’t a reliable settlement instrument. Mario: Is China building a “gold corridor” to decouple from the dollar? Jeff: The gold corridor theory reflects ongoing speculation. There have been many schemes—Petro-dollar, digital currencies, Belt and Road—that have not proven game-changing in defeating the dollar system. Gold in that context is not a robust settlement mechanism across geographies; the eurodollar system arose to move away from gold settlement. Mario: Why are people hoarding gold? How does the US debt situation affect the dollar’s safety? Jeff: US debt is a concern, but safety and liquidity demand still drives demand for government debt, not gold. Gold is safe but illiquid as collateral; liquidity is why Treasuries remain central. The debt grows, but the treasury market has remained robust because it’s the deepest market and the safest liquid asset. The larger risk lies in the federal government's expanding footprint and the potential debt trap, where stimulus doesn’t spur growth and leads to rising debt. Mario: What about Bitcoin as a store of value? And how about Russia? Jeff: Bitcoin behaves like a Nasdaq stock—more of a store of value tied to tech equities than a broad currency. It’s not likely to become a widespread medium of exchange. Russia remains connected to the US system; it’s less about the Russian economy collapsing and more about how energy and sanctions interact. The eurodollar system has kept Russia afloat through channels like the UAE, and it’s unlikely that Russia’s fate hinges on a single currency shift. Mario: Will the US empire fall or evolve into a multipolar world? Jeff: Likely a multipolar world, not a complete fall of the US empire. I’m long-term optimistic on the US and global economy. The eurodollar system could slowly be replaced by private digital currencies, with stablecoins evolving toward independence. The transition would be gradual, with multiple private digital currencies emerging, while the eurodollar would persist in a rump form if needed.

The speaker criticizes the idea of the digital ruble, dismissing claims that it will be voluntary and highlighting the Russian government's history of contradicting itself. They argue that the digital ruble is similar to other centralized digital currencies being developed by the EU and the US, controlled by the Russian Central Bank and obedient to the IMF. The speaker expresses concern about the potential for abuse and the creation of a control grid, where every aspect of people's lives will be monitored. They believe it is unacceptable for any government to introduce such a currency. The transcript ends with a question about the BRICS common currency.