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HUMAN HUNTING PARTIES AND SRA ABUSE SURVIVOR TESTIMONY Toos Nijenhuis is a ritual abuse survivor who explains her torture and experience with human sacrifice and human hunting parties in Holland. Here is her testimony, as received by the ITCCS. ⚠️ GRAPHIC ⚠️ https://t.co/lPqfuSsWFe
Video Transcript AI Summary
In this video, the speaker, Tosh from the Nailing House family in Holland, shares a harrowing story of ritualistic abuse and rape that began at the age of 4. They were subjected to various forms of torture, including sexual abuse by family members and a doctor, as well as witnessing the killing of other children during hunting parties. The abuse took place in different locations, including castles in Germany and Scotland. The speaker's siblings and their ex-husband also became abusers, and their children were victims as well. Despite seeking help from authorities, the speaker faced resistance and accusations of guilt. They eventually escaped with the help of their current partner and went into hiding. The speaker discusses the difficulty of pursuing a court case and expresses the desire to stop the abuse and hold those in power accountable. They also mention their daughter, Carmen, who experienced abuse and witnessed the deaths of other girls, involving both the speaker's father and Carmen's father. The speaker discusses deliberate markings on the ground and their attempt to capture evidence through photographs.
Speaker 0: Thank you for coming here today and being very brave to come and tell the story. I'd like you to first introduce yourselves to my audience so that they know who you are and we can get into your story.
Speaker 1: My name is Tosh from the family, Nailing House. And I live in Holland. 14. 54 years old. I have 5 children, and I've
Speaker 0: Okay. We'll start from the beginning.
Speaker 1: When I was 4 years old, I'm the young the oldest born from the whole family. And it's a church ritual from what is in the bible. The first or should be offered to God. And that's what was what did they tell me when I was 4 years old, although I'm saying here. It was in it was in February.
And They my mother told me there was a meeting with my family in the front house of my grandparents. And we went there and she said, it will be a kind of game and we will first, if you're above and Then afterwards, we won't be in. But and there when we arrived here, then It was not in the kitchen, but there is an a bigger, nicer room in all my aunts and uncle. Not the uncles who it was only the the the small family, the the sisters from my mother and
Speaker 0: Immediate family. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And my grandfather and grandmother while they are and, the tell me.
Speaker 2: Figure.
Speaker 1: The bigger. He did also came in. And my mother had already undone my clothes, so I was naked and put a towel around me. And then they were singing,
Speaker 0: George
Speaker 1: songs with the whole family and The Unconsciousness. Dissied. Dissied. And then they put me on my stomach on the On the on the table. And the vicar, he put his And it was bleeding.
And then my What? And then my my uncle did the same, and it took an hour Before they were already in the hall, it was a blanket, a white blanket. I
Speaker 3: was on
Speaker 1: the thing, but it was totally red. And then after it was done, they put me in the bath. There My grandfather, he placed The figure before is holy, Then My mother put my clothes on, mommy, mommy, and we went with a beggar in his car to I'm home. My mother broke into my bed and the doctor came to give me some They were raising the pills. Morphine.
And, that was a few times or a Few days with that. And after I got a step, I had to go And then he let me in. My uncle did the same to me, and Sometimes it was in the bedroom. Sometimes it was in the where the cows were.
Speaker 0: Who who were your grandpa and uncle and all of them connected to that they were involved in this ritualistic rape and abuse? What is the Connection. What is who is is it like a freemasons or cults or satanic organization?
Speaker 1: For me,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. But Which church?
Speaker 1: Protestants have formed. Netherlands, I fall in church. The days is healthy.
Speaker 2: The church reformances.
Speaker 0: Yes. The Netherlands. Okay.
Speaker 1: Not away from me. I have phones.
Speaker 3: Her her
Speaker 1: phone's now on, but it's it's nearly Yeah. The same. It's not
Speaker 2: Did you you said the vicar was present at the ceremony. How did you know he was the vicar? Were they were they calling by that name, did you recognize him or?
Speaker 1: I know it. I hear. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 0: Okay. Used to go to you, your grandpa, once a week. He used to rape and abuse you. Take it from there.
Speaker 1: And when I was 5 years old, I had to bring my The younger sister, she's 1 years younger than I, also to my grandparents and to I had to see what he did said to her. Trying to bring you to put you in a a position that you are unable And often The time when I was 5 years old, my, The house doctor did come who always also give me the pills when when after the 2, a ritual. And he, learned my already teach my parents How to torture me with electricity? Then he bound me on the table. As it was, when that was done, I was always needed.
So tortured and organized troops go together. And that was he came 3 times to to teach my balance then, and It was my mother who had to do it.
Speaker 0: So your mother used to give you an orgasm? Yeah. Your mother was sexually abusing you too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. Let's see. Did it not only with the fingers, but also with the tongue. That was also 4 years ago that I saw those pictures back from her, but I couldn't But, after the the 3 times that the doctor did that to me, he also said she But I wasn't always willing to tell my mother.
And once I And then my father came home after walking, and she thought What I did that it didn't function a day. And then after we had dinner, we had dinner and my sister wasn't He brought me on the table and he gave him so much It's, it wasn't a need to watch. My mother told him to stop it.
Speaker 2: Do you need a break? Okay. Do you need to stop for a little bit? Yes. Okay.
Speaker 1: I was scared. Mhmm. 2 years ago, I was telling him or I wrote a letter to him. I didn't know everything he did to me, but I didn't know anymore. No.
And then I told him that he tried to Ouch. You out of it. Out of it. And then I knew. And then I saw also the the thing where I was
Speaker 0: Right. Let's take it back to your childhood. How long did this go on for? And let's talk a little bit more about the details of where these things happened. Well, I've Those who already,
Speaker 1: they my mother trained me, and it was a training for 2 to, For the Yes. Freemasons for to, it's actually make examination, a kind of examination if they will come through or not. If they, are really,
Speaker 0: It says initiation.
Speaker 1: You mean? Okay. And that was, at about 5, 6 kilometers My father showed me to the director from the factory where he was Working and to the house stopped over. They they work together. There was a We had it when I was 6 years old.
We had
Speaker 0: Kind of. Basin.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And there we were, washing. But in this factory, there was Shower. And on Saturday, he took me there, but I only knew the shower and nothing more. So, yeah, it happened more, but I don't And then there was another room nearby.
There was a small yeah. It was a massive couch.
Speaker 3: Mhmm. It was
Speaker 1: So I'm not examination from the doctor. So and they are I gave I got something to drink, so I didn't know anything exactly or to be willing willing to do. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: What is it? Do you remember, The names of people. The names of the dogs.
Speaker 1: The house dog that he was talking to me then. Yes, sir.
Speaker 0: Pastor, priest, Israel, reverend. Let's talk about the castle in the forest.
Speaker 1: The house doctor, He was he was the one who took me there, and it was a around, there was a a tower. And in the tower, it was a round tower. There was a kind of bed or I Questions in white, clothes or white blankets. They have covered all day. That covers Still naked body.
And with caps like this, and only, whole here, but only the The doctor, he was like a a
Speaker 2: monk. Oh, that's
Speaker 1: But for me, it was a bock, but probably also a devil. I don't know. I always say he was a buck. So yeah. And he that was in he he was not while he wasn't brown, he was not white.
And they get went in a circle around me Walking.
Speaker 0: It's because the towels were out sitting around the wall in a procession. Mhmm. Okay.
Speaker 2: Sports is big.
Speaker 0: That thing you put into when you go to the gynecologist. Yeah. Old metal duck Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: How many do you call it?
Speaker 0: We call it a duck.
Speaker 1: A duck. He put a And then he used to know the agents, the kids rush. So, yeah, I got a a neurology. And the one who couldn't have who didn't get an erection fell Down in a there was somewhere in the there was 1 hole in in the circle, and then that hole When opened it, he felt out, through it. And the other Well, during that filming, how it was actually done, I don't know.
But they The man get the god of of his whole, together.
Speaker 0: Okay. So just Of course, he
Speaker 1: didn't get an erection looking at
Speaker 0: you having this done to you. Mhmm. They cut all his penis and Threw him down a hole. Okay. What happened to him?
Speaker 2: Sorry. Who who How exactly did that happen? How did they cut it off and who cut it off? I
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how it was supposed to be.
Speaker 2: With a with a rope with a rope.
Speaker 1: Yeah. They had a rope. Something. Yeah. If yeah.
There was A rope on there. But how exactly? Mhmm. There was a certain certain system that if they Didn't get an erection?
Speaker 2: By the fall.
Speaker 1: By the fall, it was cold off. Yeah. Off now. Okay. Yeah.
It is but to me, it is it sounds terrible. It was terrible, but to me, it wasn't Not that terrible because I had had such terrible things already before because my parents did there was no one. Only the doctor was kind to me because I had to work with them together to cooperate. And it's it's it's sounds how can you but if I didn't cooperate. And when the circle was going on and they they never moving, The book and me, we we had eye contact and we knew who was going.
We we After I've done that for for 4 years. Even 4 years, then it's a life and then it's a birthday order till I was
Speaker 0: So are there a lot of these castles here in Holland where this goes on?
Speaker 1: I'm not in in it anymore, so I cannot say it. I don't know.
Speaker 0: Do you do you remember where they are?
Speaker 1: I think they are still in that system or there are still those systems to to test the upper,
Speaker 0: I mean, the car the places castle where you were abused. Do you know where it is?
Speaker 1: Yes. I know where it is. Oh, yes. Exactly. I know I know it's like, ladies, and I know that is that it happened much more.
Okay. So, did Did you ever
Speaker 0: go outside of Holland to different places? Were you taken anywhere?
Speaker 1: Yes. I know all the places or a lot of places where I was taken, and not only in Holland.
Speaker 0: Well, so
Speaker 1: I will this story is not finished. Okay. Keep going. For me, that was the the the story with the house doctor because he he told me I was a kind girl and I was, And he loved me, so that was his way to make me cooperate or to work with him. And Because I didn't have anyone who I who I could rely on and who was there for me.
I didn't he He gave me the bills for not feeling so much pain. It was and that night we slept together, So we worked together. And When the man was falling down in a carne of salah, afterwards he was dead. And Not me. But later, the the doctor, he showed me the whole system, how it functions.
He it was as if you were
Speaker 2: yeah. Okay.
Speaker 0: Depends. That is how old were you?
Speaker 2: It's it
Speaker 1: was almost 66 still on my Thanks, brother. Hello?
Speaker 0: Yeah. So you were his child mother? Yeah. Okay. And you thought he was your boyfriend?
No. Okay.
Speaker 1: It's very strange. Mhmm. But The image is still exceeding for a human and it's
Speaker 2: Is he still alive?
Speaker 1: No. No. He died very, very infirm, very strange. But that is that comes because it's I don't I have always the idea that's because of the whole story what Interesting. Okay.
Speaker 0: Alright. Carry on. So,
Speaker 1: They went downstairs, and they are the man. They had to do necrophilia with that that part.
Speaker 3: This is
Speaker 0: the one who got his.
Speaker 2: Mhmm. So
Speaker 0: the other man had to do that with him.
Speaker 2: What did they do exactly? Did they when they did you watch it or did the doctor tell you?
Speaker 1: I Strange button.
Speaker 2: When they I I just have 1 other question about that. When they were doing that, were they saying anything while Well, they were doing it or were they were just doing it?
Speaker 1: Saying, I don't know. I cannot see it. I for me, it's it was silent.
Speaker 0: Was there ever in these rituals any kind of chanting or verse read, or was it just pure act?
Speaker 1: Pure Okay. Alright. And then the one who didn't come I I was upstairs or they and they put a a cross knife in my the the the the doctor did it, the bug
Speaker 0: So was it pointing down out? Not not inside. It was pointing out. Mhmm.
Speaker 1: Okay. No. It was in.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it was inside.
Speaker 1: The neighbors. The neighbors also. But it was, because I'm asking the direction me. Painful. It was for the care.
Speaker 3: What I'm
Speaker 0: trying to ask is the direction. Did the handle go in first or the blade?
Speaker 1: No. The blade was out.
Speaker 0: Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the that's about the head. I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 0: To penetrate necrophilia, had to then come to you. Yeah. You had a blade inside of you. And what happened?
Speaker 1: Did they he know what
Speaker 0: he was doing? Did they tell? Okay. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: Little break. Stop. Okay.
Speaker 0: You're doing very well. A tough story, You're very brave telling it, I must be honest. It's It's all the toughest I've had
Speaker 2: to listen to. When it came out, I explained details. Yeah. It was strange. I
Speaker 0: I It's alright. It's alright. The You're doing so well.
Speaker 1: Are you ready?
Speaker 0: So you're in this relationship with the doctor. Let's talk a bit more.
Speaker 1: Because those, examinations from the and freemasons, that was not very often, but it was once a year or I don't know. It It didn't take place ever.
Speaker 0: But
Speaker 1: I the doctor well, my father, he showed me more often to the doctor, and he took me to different places in Holland. A rumble. Nearby Alamo. There was also, a torture in the center. They were they it was a it was another house, and they were different.
It was a,
Speaker 3: I got
Speaker 1: the door. And then there were different, privacy rooms in in it. And They are I was also tortured with, electricity. It was so often electricity, What they put on me and and not only on my feet or my fingers, but also on my Marshall Dimes Day. They hit me in this, We're manning black.
The only clear mask. I think I did the wrong mask. Not always, but but also a a black shoot. Nothing is okay for sometimes you can't. It's just that and then there 2 or 3 men normally.
But it was always always that the doctor, he was with them. But I didn't know it. I didn't know that he was one To another room, and I got there was the doctor who gave me some more Thanks to to everything. And that It happened in different places. It's also in the south of Holland in Limburg.
It was in ice and and a small Castle. Where they brought me. And there there were more men together, and they they put my Thank you to the
Speaker 0: Were there other children involved?
Speaker 1: No. I I would like I had to have it all, like, man who raped me, but also in eyes, it was also a dog who wanted me. Sorry?
Speaker 2: A dog. Dog.
Speaker 3: And
Speaker 1: on the castle where For the cremation's examination wars, they were also it wasn't the first. They were they had some hunting. They hunted. I
Speaker 2: What did you do exactly on that honey?
Speaker 1: What I remember, I was naked and It is cold. And I they there was a on my, feet. I I put my feet in a. Yeah. So I couldn't go on any longer.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: I don't want. I know.
Speaker 2: We have a And
Speaker 1: I had a bear trap clamp.
Speaker 2: Like, you had a trap over here. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1: And they it was hunting with dog, not dogs, not not not with And, again, nowhere. But it was and they were horses.
Speaker 0: Prince Bernard.
Speaker 1: Cardinal.
Speaker 0: Alton. How do we spell that?
Speaker 1: R l. A l. F f f. F e n k.
Speaker 0: R I NK.
Speaker 2: He was a Catholic Cardinal?
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the prince part Bernhard.
Speaker 0: Yeah. Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands. The man who said of Bilderberg. And the World Wildlife Federation.
Speaker 2: How old were you when this happened? The honey. Exorcist.
Speaker 1: At about 9 9. 9, 10 years old, 7. During that whole period, it And it was not only in that forest, but they put them up the the dogs and then when you could not go on and there wasn't came around to my feet. The dogs stay. Right there Sunday.
We're laughing and
Speaker 2: How many men did this?
Speaker 1: What I know of Odyssey is 2 men, but Probably a little more. I don't know.
Speaker 0: Were there other children involved?
Speaker 1: Were you the only child or was the others with you? I know that I heard crying, crying, you know, screaming, and it was my sister. And she didn't take part afterwards On those, I didn't publish. But with me, they took me to England. Wales, Scotland.
Speaker 2: Who took you?
Speaker 1: The doctor.
Speaker 2: To answer Hunting parties anywhere else?
Speaker 1: In the Carnahan Castle. And in nearby Fort Williams in Scotland.
Speaker 2: Did you see the cardinal or the prince in Scotland and Wales too? Or were there other people?
Speaker 1: In Scotland, there was, Menachem Mendels Nielsen, the upper body of the Jewish people. Can you spell that? Manacham.
Speaker 2: Manacham. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mandel.
Speaker 0: Mendel snail. Essence. Yeah. She
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 0: Thanks, everyone for taking the notes.
Speaker 1: And In Carnarvon, they and it in the capsule in the in the
Speaker 2: Corridors. Yeah. Forest.
Speaker 1: Really? Oh, in the castle. That's interesting. And It was not only hunting. It was there was a special I'm sorry.
What was it again? A water basin.
Speaker 0: Oh, water basin.
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah. There was a A kind of, up and out often.
Speaker 2: An appliance.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And They found me there, naked. My arms like this and my feet like this, and there was An an an island. Bar. My own bar.
And 1st, they put me right up and then let me slowly down in the water and put electricity on the water. So They like to see you struggle.
Speaker 0: Then
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then So That was with my Doctor.
Speaker 0: Lord now and baton. Okay.
Speaker 2: Did you, at the time you couldn't know when they were did you recognize them later? Is is that how you know them?
Speaker 1: When I see a picture, I feel it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And
Speaker 1: you can let let a lot of pictures and I say, no. That is not Him, I have nothing to do. Yeah. And another, who I know, it is one of them. And
Speaker 3: it
Speaker 1: It is my buddy.
Speaker 2: Oh, do you I know.
Speaker 0: The queen's husband queen of England's husband is a Mountbatten.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I know. But there was more. There there was like, in the avatar, you have the the the, in the film, you have the, people Go in a a a kind of glass.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a coffin.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Coffin. And then they go to another time or another. They turn it into another. You know they feel bad time.
Yes. Yeah. Then you'll you'll see if they go in in a glass. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The glass chamber.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Done. Then you go to another place and another time or you'll be traveling another.
Speaker 0: This happened to you?
Speaker 1: Not exactly, but they they they they put some they put me in such a thing or it is it's Like that, but you get something on your head to and it's it's not it it doesn't hurt, but it it gives us a a feeling. I know that I at that time, I thought I would not let We do, change my my my my brain, but you cannot So it's it's it's there's also Marsha tells the same stories that they do with the kind of electrode or kind of, I think, to to make your, change your remembering or change your I don't know exactly what's missing, but it it it is an instrument so to change your
Speaker 2: Why was that happening, do you think, to you? Why did they do that to you?
Speaker 1: One thing I is that I shouldn't even remember anything.
Speaker 2: What how old were you when that happened?
Speaker 1: Come on then.
Speaker 0: How long is this abuse going on for?
Speaker 1: It stopped when I was 12 years old, but it I Can you tell the whole story? So then Yeah.
Speaker 0: Show me.
Speaker 1: You'll hear also at the end.
Speaker 0: Can you make the shorts? When you're ready,
Speaker 1: you carry on. I guess, I already told about the I was well, it was several times several times there, or it was at the same time, I don't know, but they bumped me also on a table and put needles under my fingernails. Tool. Tell us.
Speaker 0: What was the point doing that? Was it too cute? Because
Speaker 1: they like to see your that you cannot go away and told to move and but you cannot scream because they put Would always something in your mouth or, take to to over your mouth.
Speaker 2: Would they Studying you? Were there people taking notes? Or were they just doing this? I don't know. Okay.
I know that's
Speaker 1: but it will come in Melbourne. They filmed Everything. They filmed the torturing, and there is a secret, room where they hide their films. But here, I don't know. I I only know what they did to me.
10 years old. Well, oh, no. In in in Scotland, there There was also, hunting. And there was hunting with more and more children.
Speaker 0: What happened to the children
Speaker 1: when they were caught and
Speaker 3: killed? They
Speaker 1: are So, on the string there where I first had the where I was talking about hunting, The children who are killed, sometimes what they do, the Same with when they hunt on, rabbits or animals, they eat them. They do the same Did you say to see
Speaker 0: them kill the children and eat them? You actually see them?
Speaker 1: I have. I have Tell us the or they gave it to the dogs or both. Why were you never caught and killed? I don't know. I have no protector, I think.
When I was 10 years old, I suddenly became a war and was in in in the Not so far away from where I live where I lived, he, the bishop from Munster tortured me in During an evening, they were all in black. They were both in black and had only or that they wore a mask, but saw only their eyes. And after the torturing, There was my doctor again, but I saw that he had worn also a mask. There was the pressure from the mask on his face. So I I got such a great shock that he was one of the torturing men.
I could not love him, and I could not have. I I had sex with him, but not the way it was before. Before I had the idea he was my lover. I was not I've always I was Most of the times I was apart, they hunted me, but only with the dogs. K.
And not with,
Speaker 2: Did they use guns when they were hunting the other children or any weapon?
Speaker 1: I cannot give an answer. I I only know that there were children who we had to eat. Follow-up.
Speaker 2: There were dead children. You saw they were dead. And That
Speaker 1: was only part of the child was exposed. I didn't see them the whole part there. I knew that it was from a child. So you were forced to eat child meat. Help me.
It's always the same time. It's 9 at 10, 11.
Speaker 2: This was in Fort William in Scotland?
Speaker 1: There was also a hinting.
Speaker 2: In Fort William.
Speaker 1: I was talking about this mask. That's the doctor was not any longer. And that's made for me, the whole thing more worse because he tried to get my love again. He was not used to have love, not have to have the warmth of One more mountain. It's so very isolated life they live, and very cold life they live.
When I was 6 years old, I would always go to Jesus. It has been In a very long time, and I have that intention. Go to Jesus and be as Jesus, Helping people also love you and me. I remember A scene where it was with with Snyazimu had also tortured me, and then he had sex with me. And I Lonely lion and his sometimes through a very strange situations.
I know no problems at
Speaker 3: all so
Speaker 1: when I when I survived. I don't know. It's I mean but with a doctor, I don't know when the the when I when for me, again, I because at the end, there was a lot of feeling to each other again. And not only from him, to me. But The Cardina Alsang, the bishop from Utrecht, he became awarded doctor Erudwig Love me, and that's what the thing he could not, be So I was tortured from the back of the office.
After he became more, that there was a relation between the doctor They brought me to to the south of Germany. There are 2 castles Sorry. It is an Horswango. Horswango. Horswango.
Is an is an red castle in the south of Germany. And they are were different visuals from that Part of the country. There was also the Paul. And
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Is that near Munich? I mean, this castle near Munich?
Speaker 3: This one's near. Yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's Totally to the, Austrian border.
Speaker 2: I'm crossing over to New York. Yeah. Just Mhmm.
Speaker 1: I know knowing every name, I only
Speaker 2: knew what's good.
Speaker 1: Mhmm. And also the bishop.
Speaker 0: So it's all bishops. You've got all bishops, all and the pope.
Speaker 1: Bishops and the pope and and the The the the the the the upper upper. The the upper. The upper. The
Speaker 0: That's interesting. Altogether. Yeah. Altogether. Okay.
Speaker 2: What were they doing? They
Speaker 1: They were I I don't always wanna say anything. Put jokes on me. They he urinated on me. I have still doing this And once he put me on a table naked on my hands and my knees, And then there was something. I don't know exactly what it was.
He put it on my mouse Okay. So that he he could,
Speaker 0: took me
Speaker 1: back on my shoes. And then He put his hands in there. So I could not. It was here, Cooplin.
Speaker 2: This was the,
Speaker 0: What about the pope?
Speaker 1: Was there anything he did? Do you They all rape me. It's for sure. My mom didn't do anything. They they oh, did they go home?
Speaker 0: Did they all talk to you as
Speaker 1: well? No.
Speaker 0: So, Eric, did they take turns in a in a together in a group or was it 1 by 1?
Speaker 1: No. It was a group. And then you put jokes on me and
Speaker 2: like Sorry. Put what onion?
Speaker 1: Drugs, jokes, teased. They
Speaker 0: it's a taunter. K.
Speaker 1: You are nothing for them. Yeah. Only The toy. And they like to see yourself. The more On another place in Germany, also in the south.
It wasn't always with, electricity. They They put me in a place where near. Near. Hands. Ants.
Yeah. They look yeah. I was on a chia, and It was with snakes and with ants and all terrible things to to make Another time, they took me And nearby, there was a and the first thought, it It's not so bad. There were more children, but I had to go to a second room. There are also I was naked.
And I there was a But he had also another name. I know that it Was with an a, his first name, and was his Family name. And there was doctor. Vincent. Riddick, he told me that or he had told me that I I had to do all the things they asked me so I should not suffer so very much.
I had to make
Speaker 2: bow down.
Speaker 1: I had to bow down and sneers, and he went behind me, put his finger in my belly now, and He turned me on the ground, and then he urinated on me and It was always And it wasn't 5 times that they or 5 days that they they had During the day, they had, meetings, those men. They had other things to do, and in the evening, I lost their Toys or play with. Then normally, I was alone. The 1 one or other children.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Did they have you in a in like a cell? Where were they you kept?
Speaker 1: No. It was not a So it was a a room like this, and there was a bathroom. It was not when they were not there, it was not so bad.
Speaker 2: When when you're in Saudi Arabia, the other children, were there Eric children or other what kind of ethnic children Where were they?
Speaker 1: I've not I've only seen children and then I went through through that room, but I don't know what no. But they were not from from Africa. They were not not
Speaker 2: There were quite a few. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mhmm. Can I ask what blood type are you? What blood type? Yes.
Speaker 0: Do you know? I AB negative. I'm in the limousine. Can you speak to you? Yes.
Just out of interest. It's significant. It could be significant as to why you've survived. So I'd like to know if you could find that out for me, please.
Speaker 1: I think or for me, it was because of the doctor.
Speaker 0: Okay.
Speaker 1: Also, although it is very you cannot imagine that he's but at the end, that When I was in Nagua, he sent me there, my nurse in nursing, but he also, was the one who told the others that I should have to survive. So, they they Okay. We're not, allowed to come down.
Speaker 0: What was special about you that they were not allowed to kill you? Do you know?
Speaker 1: This is very, very old. It's not from this life. Okay. That is what I when you ask me, you know,
Speaker 0: This makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Carry on with Anne. This will come. What? Come on. Where are you?
I was in Saudi Arabia, and They they they it was very nice torturing. They they give electricity to my
Speaker 0: How about we and Savvy,
Speaker 1: I was there 2 times. But once I was there for 5 days, And the last torturing, it was very, very terrible because It was with electricity. I would hang on or They hang me on my ankles and my, wrist. So and they there was a they did a, twenty out. It took a day on me.
So it was a cramp from my muscles to come like this. And And then when I was unconscious, they let me float On the ground and then I was I didn't breathe anymore.
Speaker 0: How did you survive?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Every time I I've been to breathe again. Good. There is the last story is there was the Romeo. The room.
Yeah. I would
Speaker 0: like to have it.
Speaker 1: It would be my going
Speaker 3: So
Speaker 1: 3 day I came during the evening day or when we slept. Sometimes Nelson took me, and then there was torture In the night.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My name is to tell that's And the 3 bag had
Speaker 1: to to
Speaker 2: wash. What happens?
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the last time, he no. Before, that's that's very bad with the with the cheering me out and and and giving me electricity. The time before, he had to, to hit me with a a vibe and to give me also whether, an an a stick electricity. See, although I I was wounded and I could not and the others, they raped me.
And the last time when I was hung on my wrist and ankles and It was to to to, To pay him back what he have with me to to, what was it here? Offering.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Amen.
Speaker 1: So he I saw his tears in his eyes when they did it to me. He couldn't understand it also that they did. He also did that thing to me, but that was too much. Then another time And they brought me to Saudi Arabia. And then I was brought to the There was a a pipe or a a thing, A hole in the ground.
And we did. It was with and again with Alfred That's good. Those 3. And again, in front of me. And the redacty had to let me in a pipe still here And then sand in a pipe.
So I could not move. I couldn't.
Speaker 0: So head above the ground?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. It was also to pay him back that he had to do that. If you give me the word, they would. Can you if you did it?
It probably killed me. There was no way out. And now And then came. He was
Speaker 0: Yes. Take your breath.
Speaker 2: How do you spell that castle? The name of the castle in South Germany. It started with an h. And that's where you saw the pope and all the others? Yeah.
That's the name of the castle. Yeah. Okay. Tell the story How would this this conference? That's it was the
Speaker 1: Yes. We were in on a holiday last year in South Germany. Mhmm. And They are very famous castles, from all over the world. They come to to see those castles.
Millions of people. And if you know what happened there, it's it's a little bit. Yeah. That's when we did came there. I I I Although, 4 years ago, I was there, and it it didn't treat on me, but now and there are 2 castles near to each other.
And the one I say, no. I've never been there, but in, I was I I and when we were there, It was from one site we did come to to the entrance, and I told Casper, there's another entrance That you can go so and there is the the summer and
Speaker 2: you can In fact, you
Speaker 1: can Yeah. And when we took the other way, it was the way I I didn't have a good home day. But, no, because I didn't sleep at night, and I had a lot of stomach 1 week afterwards, I had
Speaker 3: a a a a
Speaker 1: plate on my back as if one I put a a burning cigar on my back. It was
Speaker 2: burning. Really expensive.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was Scott, did you have a hold of it? No.
Speaker 0: Alright. Let's go back But to where you were with as a child at this castle, Saudi Arabia. How old are we? Where where are we in your in your timeline? What age are you now?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in the story In
Speaker 1: the story, I'm 11 in years old.
Speaker 0: Still still 11. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Alright. Alright. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 0: So how many more years did this abuse go on for after 11?
Speaker 1: A time that stopped stopped. Why? Because, I I once go to that doctor's house. He is in our, town, our village. And I sometimes used to go there to beat orchard and have love with him.
You went by yourself, I hope you understood. Ask. I don't know exactly. But there is this and it's also on the paper. There is a a secret room in that house, especially built Process things.
And I was there, and I told him, If you love me, then don't touch me anymore. And if you don't love me, then I cannot go further this way this way. You it's too much.
Speaker 2: Did, what happened to him when he decided not to push you out? Or did anything happen to him as a result?
Speaker 1: It was the last time we we met. At the the the last 2 years, he couldn't do the work he did before. I mean, it was there was a change in him. Okay. I know also another man as a torturing man.
He is not only that man. He's also brought to it. A year ago, I Is it the costume? I think that is still inside of my heart. I know This there were very strange stories in the village about this man.
At the end of that he lives in that village, he left at, 1972. And he was a house doctor, and he went to another part of Holland to became a, a pharma doctor or to to that's in a lower degree, and he was at that time Oh, he lost also one of his children. It was by an accident, but I have to question if it was an accident. I think they And last part of that it wasn't a village.
Speaker 2: Sorry. What is the name of that village?
Speaker 1: Holton. H h.
Speaker 2: H o l t e m. Yeah. In home. Yes.
Speaker 1: So and when he watched it, Doctor. For
Speaker 2: Controlling physician. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 0: It's head doctor.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah.
Speaker 0: Like a chief surgeon, chief chief Chief surgeon or surgeon general or the head doctor.
Speaker 1: Would that be correct? No. No. He is only controlling if you are If you can go to work or,
Speaker 0: supervisor. Supervisor. No.
Speaker 2: He's he's he's got he's the guy that controls where he'd be fit to work or not. He's the arborist.
Speaker 0: Okay.
Speaker 1: But it's a lower degree as a house doctor. So, They they put the floor aside. And after a few years, there was a an at, in the paper, It was in the national paper that there was a doctor killed by, one of his patients. They shoot or they put him, when a knife died, but it was
Speaker 2: What year was that that he did? He
Speaker 1: Not for a long time anymore. I don't know exactly
Speaker 3: the year.
Speaker 2: I thought was here in the 19 seventies.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
Speaker 0: So so the patient didn't kill him or did?
Speaker 1: I was not there. I don't know. I I
Speaker 0: haven't seen I cannot say, So the paper said that he was killed by a patient? Right. Right. Okay. Interesting.
Do you know what Jim do we know who the patient is? What did they say?
Speaker 1: We're through. And, from abroad someone, not Interesting. And
Speaker 2: now when you said about 2 years after, so in nineteen.
Speaker 1: 2 years after, he went from that village away.
Speaker 3: So And
Speaker 1: he went to another park. He went to, Linde. Okay.
Speaker 2: You live in about 74. It got 70 74, 75 for the chronology. Wow.
Speaker 1: But after our relation was Oh, I'll think he was still jealous. And he and sneers him. They sent me to
Speaker 0: Did you travel on your own to Melbourne, Australia? No. Who went with you?
Speaker 1: Alfred. Okay. And your friend then? Alfred, he was a very They're all bad, but there are degrees. Every day it was not that bad.
And he's or he was he's also the the he was bad, but I I I I felt that there was, for him, there was a missing thing or He missed a lot. I was in that cult of a nation.
Speaker 0: So kind of Alfred was the worst. Was it my That was you know?
Speaker 1: There was nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Totally nothing. Boys.
Not even. Not even.
Speaker 0: Not even a man. No. Think he was possessed?
Speaker 1: Maybe? I don't know. But For him, with him, there is also in in that part with the, desert. Relate was there was confession and Although before he he pissed and cocks on me, but it was at that time, he but all Nothing. The washing.
Yeah. It's kind of more interesting.
Speaker 0: Let's talk. Let's go to Melbourne.
Speaker 1: Melbourne. I would like to tell about offering. Yes. It is strange, but In the airplane, and I don't know what kind of airplane it exactly was, But and how high it was when we were flying. What when that thing did Because it will remind me on the time when I flew with Alfred in a in an airplane.
Not me, but there were children out thrown out
Speaker 0: of the plane.
Speaker 1: Uh-huh. So this it is
Speaker 0: where did they land?
Speaker 2: This was a private plane then. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay. And then he always fly with So you were you were flown
Speaker 0: all the time in a private plane? Okay. And they just threw the they had Children know they're abusing them on the plane and then just throwing them out.
Speaker 1: Oh, cool. Oh, that's What I
Speaker 0: Do you know why they threw the children out?
Speaker 1: It's nice to get in the screen to see the feel.
Speaker 2: So from August, It's also used to make the others who are with them
Speaker 0: Scan them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's that's that they've a witness and if they tell, they're not. They're the only 2. So that means everybody has to
Speaker 1: It was a It is brown, but it can be also gray. It's, with thick They or I had to put my clothes out, and I had to take a black leather shoot on me. And then I was in the room where they bound me on my stomach on a table. And then they hit me with it. What?
So why? What? What? What what?
Speaker 0: While you dressed in leather on your stomach. Okay.
Speaker 1: So you cannot see it that later on. You you feel it.
Speaker 2: Was Alfred doing that too?
Speaker 1: There were different men. There that room, they were black with a mask and a black normal black shirt or Not a cave or something like that, but dressed in black. They wiped me, and the suit was also, like, only my eyes were free. And I cried and cried and I nearly I could not breathe. And then they brought me to another room, a a white room where there was a bed.
There was found on the table again. And then they put Yeah. I I didn't plan it.
Speaker 2: Heat plates. Heat them up. Heated iron plates.
Speaker 1: Oh, did they put heated iron plates on my feet? I was back in the screen like nothing because they It will always still still
Speaker 3: And
Speaker 1: a cream a cream on my feet. So it was not so painful anymore so I could walk. Then they put me Again, on a day long. And then I was naked again. And with a intense lump.
Speaker 2: Gardening host. Gardening host.
Speaker 1: Gardening host. Put on Oh, good to god. But you don't have scars of it. It doesn't When that was over, they brought me back to that recovering room. Yeah.
This
Speaker 2: is all being filmed. This is all filmed. Everything on the album.
Speaker 1: In every room is a camera.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Like this Education. Educate thing.
Speaker 2: Mark. Education.
Speaker 1: For for torture. It's So
Speaker 0: that you should you
Speaker 1: you yeah. So you learn to torture me. Torture your research.
Speaker 2: How do you how do you know that that they were teaching people?
Speaker 1: I know it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, I mean, did they say that? Were the people in uniform? Were the people in which it?
Speaker 1: Probably I hear it. Oh, I It it it it's it's they train the people there. It's a you know, to do it
Speaker 2: effectively. Right.
Speaker 1: And to know what is your, you know, to to tell how far you can go. It
Speaker 3: was
Speaker 1: And there were special fishes in it.
Speaker 2: Was he still alive in the region?
Speaker 1: The one was the one was the most in the night. Is he white and black or black? I don't know why they didn't There was always a torturing and then a recovering. A torturing and a recovering. Then after the recovering, they brought me to A white it was like an operation.
And there was like
Speaker 2: kind of kind of chair.
Speaker 0: What? The chair.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah. With your legs up. Yeah. Okay. And there I had to put my legs on the face and then about my legs.
The next torturing was there was a water basin, And I had to lay on my stomach. Yeah. And he put my head in the water. Tell me I didn't even What's wrong? They I I I got water.
I could see I could not breathe Last, I thought she recovered. Then I saw
Speaker 2: a stop. I didn't stop. A rope.
Speaker 1: There was a room. That was the the room where I was first also in. The 1st time I was in it. And now Last time I went again in it, but the the the the floor was not the way it was the first time. It was with 5 needles.
So it was your feet. You could not they had my legs like this, and I had to to walk, but After a while, they put my hands free then so I could go on knees and hands. So it It was what? The the pressure wash. Not The same as when I was with my whole body on my feet.
And in front of me, there was the rope hanging, and There was a kind of stage where I had to go up on before I can go to the rope, and I was I ran on my knees and my hands To that stage. I climbed on it, and I thought I Because also there were the needles. You do do the painful things on the floor. But at home, it was oiled, So I could not It's good. Yeah.
How you can it's Then I had to put a rope around my neck, and it bound. But they didn't. So I nearly was dead and dead. You are so blessed if you have to look around for me. Yeah.
It it sounds very silly, but it is. There's nobody. There's nobody to protect you. Right. And they do it.
They did it 3 times that way, And then it was over. It was over. I could go. And we grew up into that white room, the recovery. I
Speaker 3: was
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have In the 3 days of short or longer. But then after that time, they brought me to a child's hospital. And in a child's hospital, there were children, but there was also me. And I don't know if those children were From the same torch as what I was or or if they're from Melbourne. I don't know.
Speaker 2: The stones that was in Melbourne?
Speaker 1: Or nearby. It was Yeah. And at the same time, a man that came in. He was, again, from an iron clip or a round table, such kind of group. And he was, Prudence for children and it's all over the
Speaker 0: Words are really large, cover round table or related to Bilderberg and all of that. It's all cover organizations 4 networking cops.
Speaker 1: And his name was Kennedy. And he was one of the men who I've I don't know. I've I I heard his voice also in a bunker, in a fortunate one. Is that what was
Speaker 2: it? What
Speaker 1: Yeah. 75 or 40. Yeah. And then
Speaker 0: Okay. So you've come out of the scene at 12 years old.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Alright. Let's talk a
Speaker 0: little bit about how the period coming out, how you covered how you dealt this as a teenager. Did you suppress it? Were you aware of it through your whole life? Has this just come out recently in your mind? Let's talk a bit about that.
Speaker 1: It was all gone. It was not I was not, aware of all those things when I was after I was out of it. Because, also 1 or 2 years later, I saw that doctor There's another woman in the woods in the in the forest walking. No feelings. It was say goodbye and nothing else.
But When I was 12 years old, the doctor, I cannot Prove it. But for me, he had paid my father to keep me out of the whole scene. They they will protect me.
Speaker 3: It's
Speaker 1: it's still a feeling for that man. Yes. Okay.
Speaker 0: And your brothers and sisters and mother, are They in this,
Speaker 1: I have 1, yeah, my sister. She's what I now hear from my 2 younger youngest children. She's still in it and is doing Things with my also with my with my children. Doing things to them.
Speaker 0: Yeah.
Speaker 1: All sorts of things.
Speaker 0: So she was abused with you, and now she's become an abuser. Oh, okay. So your kids are
Speaker 1: One and a half year ago, Carmancy, that's the youngest, youngest And she's not she's not the same father as as the other 4. Yeah. But she would always after my divorce, she was not at that time because she's born after He got 5 children. I've got 5 children. Mhmm.
And 5 years younger than youngest one, Frank, my ex husband. And after the divorce, my ex husband tried to keep me in The town where we were living in, and I thought that it was because he would have his whole family together. Although, there's a lot of problems with the children who are going to school, all those things. It was always my work, and he did only his thing, and that was it. But after the divorce, it was as if he was or he Told with social workers and with
Speaker 2: Child Protection Services. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He tried to keep me there and he Started a court case against me to get the children I'm back by, in his house, and there was a child for Child protection. Himself To do an investigation if I was a good mother. And because of the German medicine, they tried to get my children away from me because I Should not go to a doctor when they were ill or something like that, but now I've 1 year 1 week ago, I read the report Apart from the, child's service investigate
Speaker 2: Child protection service.
Speaker 1: And, dear, he says after a few months when because They also, did an investigation in how he was functioning, and that was not what he would like to have. So then he, if all things were settled and he saw that I didn't went away, then he he said to the child's Good protection, miss Jarvis, that it could stop, that he would not go on with the court case against me. And if they ask him afterwards, if the, if the children were often ill or if They had to go to a doctor. If he did, no, they were always, healthy, and there was no doctor's help needed. So it was Only to to keep the children there to and now I what What Carmen told me, one and a half year ago and still things are coming,
Speaker 0: That he
Speaker 1: was sexually abusing them. I've never Because I thought that I was the the one who have problems on sexual things. I couldn't feel anything. I think I was cold and that is for me, When I had sex with my ex husband's wife later with another man, There was no feeling, and it's in our garden. It was only when I was having a fantasy with the system I did came out of only I didn't know it exactly, but I could only have knock out if I was thinking on ripping and people looking at me.
So it was very good function. Now I can tell is I'm out of it, and I don't need those Bad
Speaker 3: fantasies. That's it.
Speaker 1: No. That is one part of why I thought I was I was guilty. Yeah. I I was not a real woman. I I didn't feel a real woman.
And it was always one of more, like, I have special purposes is in my life. One of my purposes to to be A whole, a woman totally and not but not functioning.
Speaker 0: Let's talk a bit about your husbands. How were they involved, and how did your kids sort of get dragged into this?
Speaker 1: My husband, I was
Speaker 0: well, the first or second
Speaker 1: That's the first judgment here. I was playing the organ in the Catholic church in an small village nearby where we lived. And he was also one of the Young man went to the church, and, he was, doing some work in the church as a No. Not not a priest, but reading things from the Bible if the priest was not there. We did Right on horseback, and that was also his, hobby.
I was a cyclist. He you know, also cycling. So there were there's a lot of things where we met each And so we came to them. It was not my great love.
Speaker 2: This was also a family friend.
Speaker 1: He was, yes, at first, he was with my my my sister. It was my sister's, boyfriend. And then she finished
Speaker 2: And after This is the sister who went on to become an abuser.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was her boyfriend first.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Was this church under the control of or the, Cardinal, It
Speaker 1: was yes. Good question, Kim. That's where
Speaker 0: the connection is.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 0: So this through the church, connections again, and that's how the children got dragged into it. It's sort of ex husband. He sold your kids into this without your knowledge.
Speaker 1: How he it was first. I don't know if he he worked also in it, I think, but also my father. And I don't know in which connection they are together. It's because when you're out of it, you see and and when you See what did happen in it's it's not every day, but every week, nearly or nearly every week, we there Is oh, no. I know why that is sad or done or or why that person did come and so I had didn't have a camera to see all things there.
So but What Casper said in my first I thought it was my first time I had sex at 17. It was not my first time, but it was, a boyfriend. I was in love with him. I, lived with my grandmother, the the one who was also with And then, she lived because my uncle was first living with her after my, my grandfather died, and they had already sold their farmhouse and he went to a village and at their house there. My grandfather died.
Monk who was there with my grandmother, but he married, and she was known and asked if my parents would Come to us to be and live with her, and they didn't want to. And I said, I I will go, and I have lived but only 1 year with her. And when I lived for a few months with her, that that I I got a friends from an he was living not nearby. And at the time, it was too late in the evening, and he said, I, can I'm actually with you. I lost my train and, missing my train now.
Sorry. And he, he stayed with me, and I I wouldn't have sex at that time with him, And he he made me. And therefore, I felt guilty. I had always the idea. I Life.
Life that I would only have sex with a man I love, but often Not before. So it was I for me it was a The great trauma.
Speaker 2: Then you went to your parents. I I went after this. The president was also So they they know them know them also.
Speaker 1: Because, yeah, I don't know. Your thing is or if they know I'm I don't know. I could not get rid of him. I I wouldn't, but he always tried to to Me in his hand, hand in his grip, and it took 2 years before that relation was over. I if I think now, oh, I had so less self awareness and Mhmm.
Speaker 2: How old were you when you met your first husband in the church?
Speaker 1: 20? But at that time, I I only knew him, and it was I was 23 years old when Because I've also lived, 1 year abroad in Austria. That was a great time. I And I. It was strange.
In in Austria, I've I can always hear what And Is it falling out? Yeah. And problems with my, I'll take that down.
Speaker 2: And distance digestion? Yeah.
Speaker 1: And in the Austria, no problem. Nothing. And when I did came back, after 1 month, it was all back. So there were shots triggering All things. With my first husband, we We married in 1985.
And after 2 years, I was pregnant in 90 87, the eldest daughter was born.
Speaker 2: That's, Carmen?
Speaker 1: No. That's Emily. Emily.
Speaker 2: Henry is
Speaker 1: And And after 2 years, Manueline was born. And after another 2 years, the young was born. An Amory. At 4 years when she was in, college, I had a good beautiful. She was, there was a doctor playing with another A girl and she that girl put a, an injection.
Into her Wagner. With a needle. Not needle. The needle. Only less syringe.
Yeah. And because I she once she got, very ill with ill or very little bit much coughing. And then I phoned doctor from German medicine, and and I told him, oh, do I ask him, what what what is this, or can you help me? Must be something what is very, shocking has been very shocking for her. It was to give her a lot of fear.
And, Carlene and Ann Marie on the shower, they were looking at each other's Vaginas and Guinevere. And so then he told me, Did something did happen? I said, I don't know. And then I was I watched Anna Marie when she was in I asked her what how that does it come and what I don't she could not say it, and she didn't. She she told me she was thinking I was asking her what She was thinking about special things when she was doing that, and she said yes.
I'm thinking that the police is doing things with me. What is And what is
Speaker 2: it for 4 years?
Speaker 1: What's 4 years?
Speaker 3: She's 4
Speaker 0: years when she was doing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. 4, 5, 4, 5 years. I was pregnant from there. Yeah. It was within 5 years when the seed came out.
And then I asked her, what did happen? I I cannot tell you more. I cannot tell you. At at the end, I asked her, can you Draw it probably were things or what did happen. And then she Drawlights, the the places where it was.
It was in school, where the dolls, are, and there was special place where she was laying on and all that, girl did those things with her. And also in the house where the girl lived, She was, they were playing with this honor more often, and then she did all sorts of things to I asked Doctor Hama, what should I do? And he told me, the best thing is that you should not see that girl anymore and put her out of that school because it's cool if they let such Things happen. It was a a a man watching. It's I don't know, but it's
Speaker 2: odd. Mhmm.
Speaker 1: Then, she Went to another school. And at the beginning, sometimes she saw the girl, and then she says, oh, it's it's always not, Not the special word she used, triggering me, but then she was remembering these things. And but after a while, she became very ill. And for us, it was a sign that she had solved her problem with the sexual things. She could nearly breathe that she had And that is, when you knew joint medicine, that is the the localization in the the brain where The corona variant is, located, which which has to do with sexual frustration and sexual abuse.
So I thought he shows it, and it's over. But the third one, Marulan, when I see films from their And then doctor Now I don't know if it has been, but it can also be my expression. As I see what he has done to Carmen When she was later also with her elder sisters on this farm. So I asked, I'm gonna have few dance sets of things to Mariana, have your no. Now I don't know.
I I cannot trust my own children, and I don't really know. And,
Speaker 2: Karleen, was always Can you tell me the reaction of your husband?
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Well well, he was That was because I've put her on other school. I've been to the police. I've been to the director from the 1st school to, to throw in his persona. A special person who is, involved with such things when there is such in a school, I've met down the mayor from the town to tell that is such things did happen in school.
I've had on paper that I have had a talk with the mayor, and, my ex husband, he says Nothing did happen that this children do with each other. It's not, you are, they're a little bit,
Speaker 2: So And afterwards, as she and there was a and and, It was arranged that, the children would be after the divorce. Children will be 2 week I left the 2nd weekend, I think he's at his place. He was very strict in in, his every Yeah. You always face stick that's good at picking up the children?
Speaker 1: Normally, he he he didn't, care very much of them. And at that time that he was always able to like to happen more and and also during the week, a holiday and and on Wednesday when you have An afternoon of then he was yeah. Was he abusing the children
Speaker 0: at the time?
Speaker 1: I'm was not with them, and they will not me because they're still in it.
Speaker 0: Do you think this
Speaker 1: is going to be? Yes.
Speaker 0: So your kids are still in this now. Have you tried to get them out?
Speaker 1: We have this, Carmen, the youngest one. I have to tell the whole story because otherwise it's goes after the divorce, because, For me, it didn't function with my ex husband, and he has a head farm with pigs, and it was not my thing to have those. I was kept for He went that direction. I went that direction. So on a special time, after the time, we I Go to the I did go to a lawyer and ask Lamu, how can I arrange a a divorce or To stay with him, but and also he wants to make, more, the the farmer bigger and to ingest all the money and the source of my money?
And I would not have all my life the bang in my neck. So that was also a part of the divorce that I didn't want to have that thing behind me. And He was very angry. He was often angry. He beaming.
He tore my ear out of my heaven. After 2 years, divorce was done. And then he started with the What
Speaker 2: year of your son that you divorced?
Speaker 1: He was absent.
Speaker 2: What year did you divorce?
Speaker 1: 90
Speaker 3: 1995. And
Speaker 1: I went away. I stayed Yeah. Because, then he's he every time he did come back, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't want you to to hurt you, and I want don't want to do to see the or, don't want the children to see me this way and, stay with me.
So I went really went away in 90 1996, 1 o'clock here after the divorce was done, officer.
Speaker 2: Did you ever tell him that you were gonna Tell other people that you thought he was abusing the children.
Speaker 1: At the time, I didn't no. I didn't think it. I I only found his reaction strange, But my whole family is British. I'm not I'm used to such yeah. I'm not used to normal people.
Speaker 2: Wherever they are. Yeah. They need some normal people up.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No. I was it was on the screens. My my father, after the divorce or before the divorce after the divorce, my, husband or my ex husband, threatened me with, he would make a court case against me to get children to his side or in his house. And I phoned with my father.
I thought he was my friend, so I phoned him and asked him, can you not help him out with or I told him that, I will talk with him. And after a month, I got the papers from the court case that he done it, I've done it. And then I phoned him, I thought, what have you? You did you didn't do what your sets you would do. And he said, I didn't say anything.
I don't know anything. It was so it was so annoying. Weird. It was very confusing.
Speaker 2: And you began to wake up to what was happening by this and other things? Sir, how did you how did you No.
Speaker 1: It is since Carmen.
Speaker 2: Carmen, since since Since
Speaker 1: and this harmony, one and a half year. I always thought there was a divorce. We have been, on the cover on the on the cover on the diaper. Just a little.
Speaker 2: Yeah. For
Speaker 1: one and a half year with, After the divorce, I was living in the township, and the farm from my ex husband was 2 kilometers out of it. Then, And I would like to go to Spain because doctor Han from German Medicine who lived there to go far away To be with friends together, to help each other, and, and that was what he would not, like like me to do. So and when the whole thing was arranged and I when he thought I would stay there, Then, I was, in silence arranging my things for Spain, but, I think my phone was listened because I was the one in in in Holland who was working very near to doctor Hama. And, because in June 1970s 19 97. Suddenly, a man was with my neighbors, and he came from Spain.
He told them and he was looking for a woman because he had no woman, and he was has lost his, other, his daughter from 27 years old suddenly died of cancer, and he was now arranging the things after the Funeral. And, so my neighbor Wife did come to me and said, Toast, is it not, a person for you to probably, if you would like to And then he came to me and he talked, and I thought, If I would go away this is I have praying so much. I thought it was my He, after a few weeks, We got got a relationship, and Carmen is. We went, Away to the south of, Holland because my my ex husband became a mortgage. I had a new relationship and probably will would Go to Spain.
We asked the school if we could have holiday a few weeks or the 2 weeks earlier, And it was not a problem, they sent me. So we went to the south of Holland. And when we were there on a camping place, after a few days, we came back in the evening, and then the man from the camping place told us There was a certain
Speaker 0: I don't
Speaker 1: know his name anymore, but, was informing him if or asking the man from the camping place if we were we were there and if, he was searching for us. That man, we don't know. So go away. And then we took all of things. We had 2 cars with us and some clothes and went over the Belgian border, stayed there on a camping place for One and a half week and then go to Germany to in Czechia, to south of Germany nearby over in Schwanghau, and then to Belgium back And in Harland, we had to sold our cards because all my money was done after half a year.
And the Private investigator who's who has found us after Carmen was born hoping in the south of Holland. And we were back in Holland and already had one Karl Scholes and Lim may have her father. He was off in the way and he had taken a lot of my money because he himself, I think he had not or he would like me to be without money afterwards. And he when the private investigator, he He was sent for from my sister and the woman who was Gert's, married with. She was my earlier friend.
And after 94, she married him. I know she's one of the torturing people. It was If it's not so, then we do it from that way, but my children, you should have. And that is because Carmen's father is one of The biggest one in the whole system.
Speaker 0: Can we ask you I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Speaker 1: After the investigator had found us, I phoned the police to Keith of the get Carl's father. He's in he has been in prison if he has been. There was a court, there was a court case, But some core cases are not real, and they are big dishes. Yeah. So I have to inform myself now if it It's it has been a core a really core case.
And after a while, he in 1989
Speaker 2: In 1998,
Speaker 1: Or during that, on the cover, the father of from Carmen, he had also sexual I abused my own stuff. When I became aware of death, I, told him to stop it. And 6 years later, my sec my 3rd daughter told me, although I had asked her several times If he abused also her, she refused it, but when she was 12 years old, she told me, yes. The last month when we were, in a car, he also abused her. So they tried to Put that on my, my guilt.
They say I'm guilty for it. That's he abused In 1919 99, I went to the police to Tell the police what's the name of had done to my oldest daughter. And that is On paper, and theft?
Speaker 2: There were the file charges. Inter form. No foul charges.
Speaker 0: Foul's with foul charges
Speaker 1: Mhmm. At the police. Yeah. Yeah. And the police told me you can Try to get it a court case, but I don't know if it has a sin because so war against this war, and it will be a very difficult case.
And at that time, the children were young. Anurie was, 12 years old, and Carmen was So I had to arrange a lot of things starting in a new life with 5 g. I know. And Anre also agreed with let it be this way. It is there with the police.
We can I have the numbers from the case? We can always take it up and let it be a court case. Had not told me that she would like to have a court case, so till now, it has not been a court case. When the other War case was against him just after he was in 90 when the private investigator Has found us, at that court case, I have been spoken to his Older daughter, older daughter, who from whom he had told me she was dead. Now she was alive.
And he had sold her or, when he, played card, he she was Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: She was
Speaker 0: a gambling day. Passing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So all the police had, weeks to Protect for for other men. And now I think that must be also in the police files With the case at that time for me, it had been it had good have been a very good court case, but I didn't know it's all I if I had known the things I knew now, it would have been kind of other
Speaker 2: Let me
Speaker 0: ask you. Just, I think we should finish this off because it's been a very long interview. I wanna ask you. You've been through all this abuse and torture As a child, your family's gone through it. What do you think it's really all about in a bigger picture?
Speaker 1: 1st main people. To keep control over the the the the more of very important people by Yeah. And the other class to to have things against them and to have pedophiles in that class. If you are grown up, a real grown up does not do well things.
Speaker 0: Do you have any questions, Kevin?
Speaker 2: What do you wanna see happen? What do you like to see happen?
Speaker 1: To stop it first, but and then it's not so easy. It's it's very difficult. But to The one or the the the ones who who have the control over all the system. So
Speaker 0: Debbie here. Now look at this. That looks deliberate to you.
Speaker 2: Where do you think the topic?
Speaker 1: Being Carmen was here with, 2 3 other girls. The other girls are all, beaten to death. 1 is they they put at the moment, burned the body.
Speaker 2: Gas to burn the body? No. No. Consider the lion. And
Speaker 1: one is, beaten to death With an, sticks. And the third1, I don't know at this moment what happened to her. But and Carmen, she was very scared. She could not she could not say anything. She was on her knees laying and after that there were a lot of She told that about 20 people here around Loehr, one of them was my father and one of them was, her father.
And her father, he raped her on the observation?
Speaker 0: Yeah. In the spot.
Speaker 2: And this was, You say 2 years ago?
Speaker 1: When she was just 12, it was two and a half years ago. It was around November. Yeah. December cruise night. November
Speaker 2: 2010. November 2000 Wow.
Speaker 0: Okay. Is there anything else you'd like to say? Yeah. It's interesting to see This all looks very deliberately laid down, like they're trying to mark something.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Those are not natural. They're
Speaker 1: all No.
Speaker 0: They've been they've been aligned.
Speaker 2: Did, after they died, did she know if they were buried here or somewhere else?
Speaker 1: Currently, she doesn't know. No.
Speaker 2: She doesn't remember if there was a fax with her. No.
Speaker 1: But she was bound. First the dungeon on a on a on a tree or on a stick, I don't know. She was And she told me that, All what happened to her, it doesn't matter anymore because it was too terrible, and she felt also guilty herself that she let such things happen to her. And she had never told me, and normally she told everything to me and This thing and all the things that that did happen to her, she could not tell mama. It was a very hard time for her.
We had To, have some, tape for to open to hold his eyes open, to have to look towards what happened in front of him. So he could not close his eyes. They held him in his neck, so he had to stay there. And that was Also with, 2 of my other children, Annemarie and Caroline. They were with me.
They had to see the same.
Speaker 2: Did you get some stills of the ground with the configurations?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me see what I can pick up. It's
Speaker 2: really loose. Mhmm.
Speaker 1: The one is right here. The the the the soil is like this. Is it just
Speaker 2: Nope. Curious.
Speaker 0: I bet if you get up high, you could probably see some kind of formation on the ground.
Speaker 2: Showed that to her. Maybe she
Speaker 1: It's strange that it is here.
Speaker 2: Can you take a picture of that with the number on it? Yeah. Sure.
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