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Ep. 15 Former Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund reveals what really happened on January 6th. Our Fox News interview with him never aired, so we invited him back. https://t.co/opDlu4QGlp

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In this video, former Chief of Capitol Police, Stephen Sund, discusses the intelligence failures and lack of support during the January 6th Capitol attack. He reveals that the intelligence he received did not accurately convey the severity of the attack, and that key agencies like the FBI and DHS had more concerning intelligence that was not shared. Sund also highlights the delayed response in providing National Guard assistance, questioning the motives behind these decisions and suggesting a deliberate effort to downplay the intelligence. He further raises concerns about potential political influence, the presence of federal agents in the crowd, and the lack of arrests for those instigating violence. Sund emphasizes the need for an independent investigation to uncover the truth.

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Speaker 0: You've described us as an intelligence failure, but a failure is something that happens accidentally. Speaker 1: None of the intelligence that was coming up talking about the stormy of the capital, killing members congress, or killing my police officers was ever discussed at the conference calls that I was on at least. Speaker 0: That doesn't seem to make sense at all. Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. I'm looking at my men and women having their asses handed to of and and my first thought was fuck it. I will take whatever discipline there is. Speaker 0: Once things got out of control, for 71 minutes, Pelosi of Refused to allow you to bring in the National Guard. Why don't we have Speaker 1: answers? It it doesn't seem like people really wanna get to the bottom of it, and it gets worse from there. I had a conference call of the leaders of all the law enforcement. It was a call. I coordinated. Not 1 person on that call talked about any concerns for the the intelligence, the attack from the Capitol. That we were seeing that was out there. That's what's that's what's scary. Speaker 0: This sounds like a setup to me. I'm sorry. It does. Speaker 1: New Jersey state police beat DC National of Speaker 0: National Guard to the Capitol. Wait. Cops drove from New Jersey before the National Guard could get from the armory on Capitol Hill to the Capitol. Speaker 1: Why isn't this story everywhere? Speaker 0: I have no idea. If you wanted to understand what happened on January 6, 2021 at the US capital, One of the first people you'd talk to, maybe the first, would be Stephen Sund. Sund was the chief of capitol police that day. He knew more about what happened than virtually anyone else in the United States. And yet, congressional investigators weren't interested in talking to him. The media, not interested in talking to him. But we were. So earlier this year, we did a long sit down interview with Stephen Sund about January 6th. That interview was set to air on April 24th of this year. And it never did. We don't own that tape so we can't show it to you. So instead, we invited Stephen Sund back of To explain what he saw and experienced that day. What he has to say is shocking. We recommend you watch. Mister Sun, thank you very much for coming back. Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Speaker 0: So, wanna start with the days before January 6, 2021. It was commonly known there was going to be a demonstration or believers can be demonstration in front of the capital that day. You were the chief of capital police you're in charge of security At the capital. So it would seem logical that you would have the most intelligence, the most up to date, most of accurate intelligence about what was likely to happen that day because you're consulting with all kinds of other agencies, intel agencies, law enforcement agencies, lots of federal agencies. But it doesn't sound like you did have the most information about what was going to happen. Speaker 1: You're absolutely correct. I mean, what we've learned that it was out there at of time versus what we had coming into it night and day. And when you talk about the intelligence agency, I have my own intelligence agency up at, of, Capitol Police, IICD, Interagency Intelligence Coordination Division, that coordinates with the other intelligence agencies. And now, you know, we're seeing the intelligence I was getting coming into it was indicating this was going to be just like the previous MAGA rallies, the November December rallies that we had. We had limited skirmishes. We had some skirmishes afterwards, down by, BLM Plaza with some of the, Antifa groups, some of the BLM groups. Of but coming into it, absolutely zero with the intelligence that we know now existed, talking about attacking the Capitol, killing my police officers, attacking members of Congress and killing members of Congress, none of that was included in the intelligence coming up too. That you received? Correct. Speaker 0: But others received that intelligence? Speaker 1: Well, we now know of FBI, DHS was swimming in that intelligence. We also know now that the military seem to have some very concerning intelligence as well. Speaker 0: Of It's hard to overstate how strange that is because you were in charge of the actual facility That was the focus of the protest. Speaker 1: Well, think about it. I'm the chief of police at the United States Capitol, probably one of the most prominent and should be the most secure building in the United States in the world. You know, you'd like to think of that. But when you look at it and and don't take my word for it, look at there's now 4 at least 4 congressional reports talking about the intelligence failure, of IG reports, GAO reports talking about various intelligence failures. But coming into it, you know, think about it. FBI, The Washington field office didn't put out a single document, a single official document specific to January 6th DHS didn't put out a single official document, specific to January 6. That's very unusual. I've been through many other events in Washington, D. C. FBI would host a joint conference call at the least. Of it may be a executive, JTTF, joint intelligence, joint terrorism task force briefing or and for all these big events, DHS and FBI would get together and put out something that was called a JIB, a joint intelligence bulletin. 0 for January 6th. Speaker 0: Of So you've described this as an intelligence failure, but a failure is something that happens accidentally. And I don't see how this could be accidental. So of Walk us through the contact that you had with DHS and FBI in the days before January 6th Speaker 1: So my contacts with those 2 with those agencies or the other of law enforcement agencies, would have always been through my IICD. Speaker 0: They Speaker 1: were the ones that were the conduit. We're a consumer of intelligence. We had turned to the intelligence community to get the latest intelligence. I know Metropolitan was hosting a conference call, every couple of Mondays, and I was on a couple of those conference calls. Nothing none of the intelligence that was coming up talking about the stormy of the Capitol, killing members of Congress, or killing my police officers was ever discussed in those, the conference calls that I was on at least. And think of this. Speaker 0: Of And so you never heard that? Speaker 1: Never heard it. And then Speaker 0: But how could you not have I mean, I I mean, I'm I don't work in a federal bureaucracy, but that That doesn't seem to make sense at all. Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. Think about this. On January 5th, the day before the attack at 1 pm, I of things 1 or noon. I had a conference call with the leaders of all the law enforcement, Conti from, Metropolitan Police Department, of, Steve D'Antwono, the, director of the Washington field office for the FBI. Nobody from DHS was on. I hadn't thought about that, but of all the law enforcement that was down there. I had the military disc of Washington, General Omar Jones, on the phone with me. I had the, head of the National Guard, William Walker, General William Walker of her on the call. It was a call I coordinated. Not 1 person on that call talked about any concerns for the the intelligence, the attack on the Capitol, the threats to officers, of that we're seeing that was out there. That's what's that's what's scary. Speaker 0: But and and but to to be clear, do we now know for a fact that the people on that call knew of About those threats and didn't mention them to Speaker 1: you? So this is what we know, for a fact. And I'll tell you, I'm not the only chief that was in the dark. You you look at Robert Conte, head of the largest police department in Washington, DC. He also said the same thing. He wasn't getting the same notifications like the Norfolk memo that came out the day before. He didn't get it. So, Steve D'Antuano, who's the Washington field office, of FBI director. You look at the GAO report that came out February of this year, it talks about multiple emails. Is the G. O. Report or maybe and no, it's a Senate report that just came out, in July, just last month, talks about multiple emails going of Steve D'Antuano on Sunday, Monday, and some probably Tuesday, just the days before, talking about the violence that they're predicting coming up to the capital. And I have a video call with him on that Tuesday and nothing said about it I mean that's He didn't mention that. Not a word. Speaker 0: Not a word. So of Not to repeat myself, but that just does not Speaker 1: make sense. It doesn't. It doesn't. Especially when you think about think about this, the military, the United States military. Of and this gets really convoluted once you get into the the response on January 6 and how I was delayed getting resources. You have the United States military, Secretary of Defense or Acting Secretary of Defense Miller and acting and, General Milley had both discussed locking down the city of Washington, D. C. Because they were so worried about violence at the Capitol on January 6. On Sunday and Monday, they had been discussing locking down the city, revoking permits on Capitol Hill because of the concern for violence. You know who issues the permits on Capitol Hills for demonstrations? I do. Of you know who wasn't told? Me. Instead, on January 4, what does Miller do? He puts out a memo restricting the National Guard from carrying various weapons, of any weapons, any civil disobedience equipment that would be utilized for the very, demonstrations or violence that he sees coming. It just doesn't make any sense. Speaker 0: Wait, wait. So the military says we're so concerned about potential imminent violence that we of Considering shutting down the city, but at the very same time they decide that the National Guard can't, of Adopt an aggressive posture to protect it. Speaker 1: Right. They're deploying because they're going to be deploying National Guard to assist Washington D. C. With crowd control at metros and some of the traffic, control areas. But they put this out on January 4th specific to January 5th 6th, and this direction affected the National Guard in Virginia and Maryland. When I was calling begging for assistance on January 6th, they weren't allowed to respond at first. If you look at, Governor Hogan, he did a press conference saying he was begging to respond, and he was not being denied by the Pentagon, all because of the memo. Speaker 0: So why? Speaker 1: You begin to wonder why. And especially when you look at things like something that I recently came across when you talk about the military. General Milley, you know, we're now now finding out, and it's not not for me. This is from Carol Leonning, you know, investigative reporter with the Washington Post, has found that he was using DataMiner on his own coming across intelligence talk. Speaker 0: Tell tell us what DataMiner is. Speaker 1: So DataMiner is an intelligence of platform. It's not something your average citizen would have on their, computer. I I guess it goes in and does, crawling across webs. I'm not really sure how it works. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: But it's not your it's a it's an intelligence platform. He's picking up intelligence talking about killing members of Congress and attacking the United States Capitol, and he's not telling me. He's telling select members of Congress I mean, Carol Wenning writes about in her book. That's concerning as hell because as the chief of police, You know, he's there's a duty to warn there, and I should be told so I can take the necessary action. I don't know who else he was telling, but he sure wasn't telling me. Speaker 0: Of Again, what could possibly be the explanation for that? Speaker 1: You know, I'm not really sure, you know, people are Well, you've Speaker 0: done this for over 30 years. Of your very familiar. You've been in law enforcement in DC specifically for over 30 years. So you know how the city runs. You know how the federal agencies respond to protests. This is not the 1st violent protest. Speaker 1: Not at all. Speaker 0: There have been many. Speaker 1: I've I've done many national special security events, and this was handled differently. Of no no, the intelligence, no jib, no coordination, no discussion in advance. It's almost like they wanted it to be watered down, the intelligence to be watered down for some reason. You know, I talked about a little bit in the book that maybe they were concerned before the, Trump invoking the Insurrection Act, and they're worried about that. But I've had people there's those other thoughts out there. Of but luckily, we still have people investigating this because I still think there's puzzle pieces missing. Someone's going to find out what's really behind all this because It wasn't right. The way the intelligence was handled and way out we're we're set up on the hill. Speaker 0: Big picture just to restate, you've seen many things like this of And as you just said, this was very different. This was handled very differently. By whom? Speaker 1: By by the intelligence. I'd say 1 by the intelligence agency, 2 by the military. So the reason why I say the military, think of this. By federal law, of Congress passed a law that requires me to go to the Sergeant Arms Capitol Police Board in advance of an event and to request federal resources such as the National Guard. So Congress passed a law. It's two U. S. Code 1970. Look it up. Just make sure you look it up before of December 22 when they changed it. So what was in effect on 6th, that requires me to go and get approval for bringing in National Guard or federal assistance in advance, have to go to the Capitol Police Board and get approval from congressional leadership in advance like I did on January 3rd. I'm denied twice because of optics and because the intelligence didn't support it, so think about that. Speaker 0: Let me ask you a question. Who made that decision? Who denied you? Speaker 1: I was denied by Paul Irving, House Sergeant Arms, of and also Mike Stenger, Senate Sergeant Arms on January 3rd And who Speaker 0: do they work for? Speaker 1: It would have been working for Pelosi on the House side, and that Pelosi was the number one boss, and then, McConnell on the senate side. Speaker 0: So we So effectively, Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi shut down of your request. Speaker 1: My request was shut down, one, because of because of optics, which is interesting. You're going to hear that term come up a couple more times, optics over the look of the National Guard on the hill. But, yeah, in the Capitol Police Board, I mean, it it's it's unbelievable that I'm I'm the only chief of police in the United States that has a law preventing me, not just regulations, rules that say I gotta go and need approval to bring in the national art, a law. So that's crazy that congress is gonna pass a law that controls of what I can do to protect the capital and even in emergencies. So think of this, even while we're under attack, I have to go to those same 2 people to request the National Guard to be brought in. I have 3 40 National Guard that have been activated, at least 150 to 180 of those are in the city, many of them within eyesight of the capital, okay? We get to come under attack at 12:53. 12:55, I call the Washington DC Police Department, I talked to their assistant of Chief Jeff Carroll. Thank God, I had talked to him at 10:59 in the morning and asked him if he could possibly put some additional resource on Constitution Avenue, and he had some CDU, platoons up there. Called him, said, hey, please send those in right away because we knew as soon as they they came to their west front, they started attacking, it was gonna be bad. 12/58, I make my 1st call to the sergeant in arms asking, saying, hey, it's bad. We need assistance. I need a declaration of mercy. I need to bring in the the military immediately and federal resources. I'm told by Paul Irving, quote, of I'm gonna run up the chain, I'll get back to you Speaker 0: The chain is Pelosi Speaker 1: The chain is his chain would be up to Nancy Pelosi of he didn't have to do that, but he wouldn't give me authorization. The law says in a mercy, he can grant me authorization, but he didn't. He said he'd run up the chain. My next call was over to Mike of Stenger. He's the now with the chairman of the Capitol Police Board. Told him the same thing. We're getting our asses handed to us on the left front. I need federal resources. He says, what did Paul tell you? Of cities. Run up the chain, let's wait to hear what we hear from Paul. Sorry. So for the next 71 minutes, I make 32 calls. Of I'm in the command center, I'm calling my partner agencies, and by law, you know, one of the first people to offer assistance was United States Secret Service, and by law, I shouldn't have requested their of assistance. You know, I shouldn't be until I had approval, but I'm looking at my men and women having their asses handed to them, and and my first thought was fuck it. I will take whatever discipline there is. Of send me whatever you got. No. That's the 1 text secret service turned over. You know how they lost all their texts? Yes. It's the text between their, chief chief Sullivan and myself. Thank god for him. Speaker 0: Of I don't so can we just so Yeah. You make this call immediately Immediately. To the house sergeant at arms who reports of Mister Irving, who reports to Nancy Pelosi, Speaker 1: he Speaker 0: says, I'll call Pelosi. Speaker 1: He says, I'm a run it up the chain. Speaker 0: Run it up the chain, but that is the chain. Now here, Speaker 1: now here, now I got you on this. I wanna tell you exactly what we told you. Speaker 0: Of What happens then? Does he get back Speaker 1: to you? So over the next 71 minutes, it makes the 32 calls to tie a number of agencies. 11 of those calls are follow-up calls. And look in the the of senate combined report from from 2001. They have a great infographic of the call after call after call after call. 11 times I call, and the next several minutes going, where are we on the approval? Where are we on the approval? Just any minute now. Any minute. I'm gonna get any minute. Finally at 209, 71 minutes later 209, I'm finally given approval. Of Think about that 71 minutes later, I immediately called Mike Stinger, say we've got approval I was so pissed off I made sure that this Watch commander, I'm in the command center. I yelled to John Wisham, the lieutenant that's my watch commander. I said, John, mark the time as 2:10. I finally got approval for the National Guard. I was that mad. Speaker 0: Of So what is the I just wanna pause on this for a minute. That's, like, it's almost unbelievable. So this is an event that Pelosi herself has likened to Pearl Harbor at 911. You know, the worst thing that's ever happened on American soil, and she's in charge of allowing the National Schlegard to come in and respond, but she doesn't for 71 minutes. What is that? Speaker 1: You know, I can't fathom why. Of I mean, they had to have known what was going on. I was telling them how bad it was. Well, it was on TV. It was on TV. It was right outside of Mike Stinger's office, of and they had a meeting in his office saying, hey, where's the National Guard? They're like, oh, we're trying to make the fighting is going on right outside his office, and I'm still getting delayed. Speaker 0: This is an unbelievable story. Speaker 1: Oh, it is? Now get a kick out of Speaker 0: the Wait. Has anyone ever explained this? Speaker 1: It's it's verbatim in my book. I have of details. The whole the whole chapter on, January 6th is almost a 100 pages long. Speaker 0: But I don't understand. So we it just I don't We're only 10 minutes into this, and you've told me two of things. One, the other federal agencies withheld critical information from you in charge of security at the capital before January 6th. And once it started and things got out of control, for 71 minutes, Pelosi refused to allow you to bring in the National Guard. So those are just, of Those are 2 of the biggest questions from January 6th. And my question is, why don't we have answers to why that happened? Speaker 1: It it doesn't seem like people really wanna get to the bottom of it. It really it it really doesn't. It, it and it just gets worse. It gets worse from there. Speaker 0: I'm I'm sorry to step on your story. I just Yeah. Of it. It's shocking. Speaker 1: It is. It is shocking to think that, we should be a coordinated security apparatus. There's regulations, there's there's procedures for defense support for civil authorities. I've taught it for the military. They don't realize they brought me in to actually ask me to actually teach us for, of, foreign governments coming to visit. There's a process for when when law enforcement needs help and we dial 911, it's through it's through the military, and that failed. That failed miserably because of the law congress passed and the denial I was receiving. Speaker 0: Well, it sounds like it was prevent it was prevented. Of So Paul Irving, the guy who had, you're saying, the statutory authority to to give that okay to, Has he ever explained why he didn't? Speaker 1: Oh, his you know, they had him and and he testified at the, senate hearing in 2001. Of, 2021? I'm sorry. 2021. My apologies. Thank you for catching. And, a couple of times, he he, disagreed with my recollection. I I can tell you my phone records. I turned them over immediately. I fought to testify. They didn't want me to testify in the senate hearing. I fought to testify. Speaker 0: Why wouldn't the oh, there's there's so much here. Of What why who didn't want you to testify? So when they first chief of Capitol Police on January 6th, Speaker 1: I mean you and me are on lockstep with with this, and my story hasn't changed in two and a half years. So when they first put out the notice and when they were talking about having the hearing, it was only for current of employees that were still in place, no long no one that was no longer in place in their position in security, so think about that. Initially, when they put out the request to have the and they put up the they were talking about having the hearing, it would have excluded Paul Irving, would have excluded Mike Stenger, and it would have excluded of only 3 people, the 3 people at the top of the security apparatus. Speaker 0: So the Democrats, I think Well, it Speaker 1: was it was joint. It was a a combined joint. I hear you. Speaker 0: I'm sorry. You're absolutely right. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 0: Of course. The unit party intentionally excluded the the 3 people who would know the answers to the key questions. Speaker 1: Yeah. The original plan was to to exclude them. I immediately called somebody I knew on the rules committee and said, please let me testify. I will be there in person. And I still remember, she said, you'll you'll show up in person. I said, I promise you, I will be there in person. I wanna testify. But and I was the only one that showed up in person. Speaker 0: It just seems like the denial of your request To have national guardsmen who were within eyesight, you saw them, to have them help. That is it that's a of Pivotal moment on that day. Mhmm. And we know the name of the man who made that decision, and we'd still don't know why he made that decision. And that's just shocking to me. Of Has he ever answered that question? Speaker 1: No. He's he's, never answered that question specifically that I'm aware of. And I do know when they were talking about the j6 of committee coming out, I think it was, Representative Bennie Thompson that had said Speaker Pelosi is off limits. So they wouldn't get any of her records, her phone records. What do you Speaker 0: mean she's off limits? Speaker 1: I believe that was one of the things he said that that her coming into this was she was off limits to the, inquiries to the Janier's. Speaker 0: Well, she was running the house that day. Speaker 1: I hear you. I hear you. That I mean, if we're truly trying to get to the bottom of this, trying to find out what happened Speaker 0: Other than that, missus Lincoln, I mean, it's insane. Speaker 1: You know, you would be getting everyone's records. I've been forthright. All my phone records have been turned over. And like I said, there's a a description of all the numerous calls I made requesting approval. Think about it. In that in the 71 minutes, I called in 17 police agencies, 1700 officers to help us get the capital back. And then also made those 11 calls trying to find out where Speaker 0: You are as of precise as an airline pilot in in your recollection of things I've so yes I and I think everything you you have said is is provable I mean these are Speaker 1: the the book's all based on fact. You can go through it. I've rec reference all the facts I have, footnote. You get access to all a lot of the intelligence. I mean, of you know, it's it's back to my my story hasn't changed in two and a half years. So the I'm just to circle back to this Paul Irving who played played a pivotal role, I think whose name is Speaker 0: of Unknown to most people, even people who follow what happened on January 6th. What happened to him? Speaker 1: No idea. He, he disappeared shortly thereafter. I haven't heard much from him. Had a couple of conversations with Mike Stenger before he passed away, but nothing from Mr. Irving. Speaker 0: Of So he was House Sergeant at Arms? And then when did he leave after January 6? Speaker 1: So of it's interesting. So he officially left, 7th, but his signature is on a document making the, of us. My assistant chief of intelligence to the chief of police on 8th is kinda weird the way it worked. But so I guess he was out the 7th or 8th. Was he close to Pelosi? Of oh, yes. Was he oh, yeah. He was a very loyal he it's interesting. He was able to go between Republican and Democrat pretty pretty well. He knew how to play the political games. Speaker 0: On some level. Speaker 1: Of but he was he was extremely, extremely loyal. To Nancy Pelosi. Speaker 0: And it's unclear what happened to him after he left. Speaker 1: No idea. Of the capital. Yeah. Speaker 0: Has he done to your knowledge we we haven't found anybody in interviews about Not Speaker 1: not that I'm aware of, no. Speaker 0: Of Was he called to testify before the before the January's Committee? Speaker 1: Do you know? I believe he was. I believe he there may be, of I'm just drawing a blank right now, written testimony of his. I know he was one of the 2 that showed up in 2021 for the senate hearing. He was on video, so was Mike Stenger. Of and they were asking him about, you know, his recollection of when, when I called him. And he was like, I don't recall that. Now I had my first My first timing wrong when I went and asked for the initial, National Guard. I originally thought it was January 4th, which was Monday, it was January 3rd when he denied me the first time. Speaker 0: Even though he apparently or certainly federal agencies had intel suggesting this was Going to be a bigger than normal protest and could be violent. Speaker 1: Absolutely. Now, you know, when you look back and you see some of the intel that was out there and I reference a lot of it in the book, There's intel talking about going up and killing the palace guards Those are those are my officers There are intel talking about using chemicals at some of the entry points. There's intel indicating that they've done surveillance on some of the entry points, at the Capitol. None of that's been included. They talk about burning down the Supreme Court. They talk about of different attacks on different members of congress, and they talk they talk about storming the building. Not a single word of that is included in any of the intelligence assessments. And a matter of fact, my intelligence unit is putting out documents on the 4th, 5th, and 6th indicating a low probability of civil disobedience. What? Yeah. Speaker 0: So, I mean, if you were and I'm not. But if you were conspiracy minded, you might think that Certain agencies concluded there was likely to be chaos at the capital, and that served their political purposes. And so they let it happen, and they prevented you from stopping it. Speaker 1: Of you know, when you tie that into a number of other things that happen, and, if you haven't, I mean, I'd love to take you through some of the military stuff really quick. Speaker 0: And I I hope you will at length. Speaker 1: Of is Speaker 0: And and can I just ask, I think most people don't understand that the US military would have a role in a domestic political of Protest? Why would the US military, which we pay to fight wars abroad, be involved in a protest in the United States? Speaker 1: Of the country. So the way it would work is, like I said, through a program. A lot of times, the military will come out. They'll do support for civil authorities, whether it's COVID of Vons. They did it during the avian flu, but they'll also do it during civil disobedience. We've used them for I've activated and sworn in hundreds, if not thousands, of National Guard troops for IMF World Bank, for inauguration. So we'll have them to help line the parade route, just to help us fortify the perimeter. We'll have sometimes we'll have with their their QRF, quick response force, in reserve in case we need additional civil of civil disturbance support. So that's how they'll kinda support law enforcement. So 340 were activated, for crowd control not crowd control, traffic control and management of crowds around, like, metro stations, so they weren't backed up and stuff like that. Not for specific civil disobedience. So we knew we had national guard in in the defense support facility authorities program is if we become overwhelmed, our backstop for law enforcement and I've used up all my resources and I was overwhelmed, would have been the military, specifically the National Guard. So 209, I get approval to, bring in the National Guard Probably 210, 211, my first call well, I've already called General Walker Called General Walker at 151. I was like, I can't wait any freaking longer. I call him. I said, send me the National Guard as quick as you can. I'm gonna get approval any minute because he asked, will you have approval from the Capitol Police Board. And I said, I'll have approval any minute. Please just get them coming this way. So they're within eyesight. Shortly after 209, I talked to them. 234, I get a notification to get on that call with United States Pentagon. I have to sell my request to the National Guard. I'm on the call with a lieutenant general Pyatt Piat. I'm trying to make sure I have his name pronounced right and a, general Flynn is on the call. And it's mainly a pilot that I'm, that I'm speaking with. I I get on the call, mayor Bautista on the call, Chief Conti is on the call, of and I said, I need the National Guard immediately. This is an urgent urgent situation. I still remember saying urgent twice. This is urgent urgent. They gotta be looking at the same TVs I'm looking at. Of I need the National Guard immediately. You know what his response is? Don't like the optics of the National Guard on Capitol Hill. Like, because I would rather have your officers in the fight and we can backfill your officer somewhere else. I said, I don't have that option. Of all my officers are in the fight. He goes, I'm telling you, I don't like the option of the National Guard. You know, I don't like the optics of the National Guard on the Hill. I said, sir, were having our asses hand to us. This is life or death. I need assistance immediately. And I still remember, he said, you know, of my recommendation is not to support the request. I still remember Robert Conte going, woah, woah, hold on. You're denying the chief of the Capitol Police? Of and, he goes, Vegas said, not that we're denying them. I just don't like the optics of the National Guard on Capitol Hill. Of and he goes, I'd rather and he goes back to that again. I'd rather backfill your people. I said, sir, I don't have that option. Speaker 0: This sounds like a setup to me. I'm sorry. It does. Speaker 1: It gets better. So of I beg and beg, and he goes, well, I'm gonna walk down the hall and, you know, we'll we'll talk to the secretary of defense or whoever he's gonna he's gonna talk to. Of right then, I get notification. Oh, so I'm still still on the call. We have the shooting of Ashley Babbit. And I said, we have shots fired. I still remember yelling over the phone. We have shots fired on the USCI Capitol. Is that urgent enough for you now? Hang up the phone because now I gotta go start making a notification. I gotta call of the, sergeant arms and, hey, we got what looks like maybe a confirmed shooting. Do you know when the National Guard finally arrived? 6 PM 6 PM, they're sworn in on post Do you know those National Guard, the 150 to 180 that are within eyesight of the capitol? You know what they do with them? Of they put them in vehicles, drive them around the Capitol back to the DC Army. You know where the DC Army is. Oh, it's far away. Yeah. Washington, White House is on one side, of the United States Capitol, DC Army almost equated on the other side RfK Stadium Yeah, RfK Stadium They drive them back then and they send me in the evening troops Speaker 0: Not real Can you frickin' believe it? Speaker 1: No, that's real That's real And you know what else I do? While I'm begging for assistance, depending on sending resources to generals' houses to protect their homes, but not me. So you begin to think it seems a little conspiratorial. I can see where somebody I'm not a cons you know, a conspiracy theorist, But I could see where people begin to go down that rabbit hole real quick. Speaker 0: That rabbit hole. I mean, I don't know what the other conclusion is. Because, of Look. Under pressure, people make mistakes and make bad decisions. But you're describing a of Systematic denial of intelligence and then of support Mhmm. Defense Through a whole bunch of different agencies, a whole bunch of different people, all reaching the same baffling conclusion That we're not going to protect the capital. Speaker 1: That's right. Multiple agencies with people with extensive experience, and you're getting this type of response. You know, and when you look at the level of intelligence, it's baffling that nobody put anything out ahead of time. Speaker 0: Maybe it's not baffling. I mean, remember, this was the end of the Trump administration. Again. You know, a month almost 2 months 2 months into a contested election. This is a politically charged moment with of Ramifications that we're now living through, but, there's a lot at stake here. This is not just your average protest. Correct? Speaker 1: Correct. Of there is Speaker 0: Did you feel that? Did you feel a a a political vibe coming off these decisions at the time? Or are you just showing your lawn Speaker 1: Oh, no. I was I was I was So when I was looking at these cameras that were surrounding me with my officers, my the men and women of the capital police and the other law enforcement agencies, you know, in in in a fight for their life. All I wanted to do was get them resources. And that I hadn't even sat back and at that point, started thinking about the political aspects of it. Speaker 0: I I should say just because it's this is our 2nd conversation. I feel like I know you at this of You're not political. I mean, you were a beat cop who rose and became a chief of police, a very prominent one. And so but you never, of You know, you weren't, like, working in politics on the side like a lot of these people. Speaker 1: No. And you'll you'll find if you look through it and I talk about it in the book, I am I try and be as apolitical as possible Speaker 0: I can tell. Speaker 1: Because I think that is extremely important in the application of law. I'm a rule of law type of guy, but especially being in Washington, DC in special ops. We did, demonstrations all the time, first amendment activity. You have to be apolitical. You gotta go in. It doesn't matter. You know, you have a right first amendment freedom of speech. Doesn't matter if I agree with you or not, but I have to take an apolitical approach to provide you security. And I believe it's important. You don't need to know what the political leanings of a cop are that's and stopping you on a traffic stop. You shouldn't. You should never know that. So I'll always be apolitical when it comes into, law enforcement because that's how it has to be. Amen. Speaker 0: So, by the time the National Guard actually show up at 6 PM Speaker 1: Mhmm. Speaker 0: They're not needed. Of Correct. Speaker 1: The fight the fight's over. So the whole time, they were concerned they were concerned about the optics of the National Guard showing up. They show up. I have to my I have an official swearman as a special police officers. They take them. They line them up with their shields. All the protesters are off. They line them up with their shields, and I could take a couple of pictures for military magazines and stuff like that of them lined up with the Capitol in the background. Very optics because they said they were so concerned about Speaker 0: They took pictures from military magazine? Think about it. Speaker 1: You can look it up. You can look it up on some of the, go online, look up Like, Speaker 0: we're the heroes of January 6th? Yeah. Speaker 1: We're the heroes of January yeah. Of so you know, and I appreciate my men I come from military, family. I appreciate the men and women in in, military and I will tell you when they finally showed up, of New Jersey state police beat them to the Capitol before the DC National Guard arrived at the Capitol. Of I had DC National Guard's men and women that were infuriated. They were so pissed off that they weren't allowed to respond. They were extremely upset. Speaker 0: Wait. Of the cops drove from New Jersey before the National Guard can Speaker 1: get an Speaker 0: armory on Capitol Hill to the Capitol. Speaker 1: I put out a request, a mutual aid request that went all up and down the, national capital region went up to why isn't this story everywhere? I have no idea. I have no idea. General Walker even said he he called me up. He said, of Steve. I felt so bad. I pulled up on the scene. He's the head of the DC National Guard. He said, I pulled up on the scene, and the, New Jersey State Police beat us to the Capitol. He said he wasn't allowed to go. He repeatedly wanted to go, and the Pentagon wasn't allowed. Speaker 0: And yet the Pentagon celebrated of The guardsmen who showed up at 6 PM when everything was done as heroes, meanwhile, they did they send other guardsmen to protect the homes of generals. Speaker 1: Of yeah. Send other resources. I don't know if they're guard or or depending on force protection or what. But the kicker is this, the Department of Defense, when they interviewed me, all I would've been interviewed by anybody. Of the eye, because I I'm telling the truth. They interviewed me. I provided them all my phone records. They were part of the all all the records. You know, they put out a report saying the actions of the United States military was appropriate, considering the circumstance. Speaker 0: Was appropriate? It's it's online. Yeah. Go look up the deal. No one apologized. Speaker 1: No one apologized. They said their actions fired. Of their actions were appropriate. You know? They had an emergency response authority under DISCA to respond immediately, and they didn't. Speaker 0: Of Do you think that the Pentagon was gathering intelligence before and during January 6th? Speaker 1: Of well, when you look at the fact that, you know, Milian Miller, you know, specifically, Milian was talking about locking down the city, he had to have some pretty damn concerning intelligence. Of that's a pretty big stretch for the government for the military to talk about locking down the capital city and revoking First Amendment permits. Speaker 0: In a in a democracy, that would be a big stretch. Speaker 1: I mean, that's a that's a big stretch. Of It's Speaker 0: close to a coup, actually. Yeah. Speaker 1: That was And then when you hear, you know, about some of the stuff he was getting online and he was only talking to members of congress, it raises it raised a lot of concerns. Speaker 0: Of Does the does the Pentagon does Defense Intelligence Agency, have undercover intel of operatives that you're aware of. Speaker 1: I have no idea. And I think it is important to us that you bring up the the intelligence. It's important for people to realize, again, as United States Capitol Police, we're not part of the intelligence community, the technical IC. There's 18 agencies. 9 of those agencies are military agencies. So that gives you an idea of how heavily weighted of half Speaker 0: Half are of the IC is military. Half of Speaker 1: the IC is military. So But I Speaker 0: think the average person imagines that military intelligence of is not allowed constitutionally to function on American soil. Speaker 1: Yeah. You would you'd think I don't ruled by junta. Yeah. I mean, I I don't know the specifics, but you But Speaker 0: but in your career, have you seen evidence that the half of the IC, half of those 18 intel agencies, the military ones, are working in the United States. Speaker 1: I've I've never received in my times of doing the special events, demonstrations, of, intel briefings. I've never received intel from the military. So it's always been, you know, the DHS, FBI. It's always been. Of Right. And those folks never never and anyone said, hey, we got this from military intelligence. Speaker 0: So, in in the aftermath of January 6th, there's been a huge debate over of To what extent, you know, there were, federal agents or people who are working in some way for federal agencies of In the crowd. And the initial, explanation was, well, none, and you're insane if you think that, you know, you're Alex Jones. You're crazy. And then over the last couple of years, we've seen people confirm people in authority confirm actually, yeah, there were a lot, of In the crowd that day. I mean, that's now a fact. Did did you know that going in? No. They were no. So, just for perspective, since you've been to a lot of these events, there's a huge a planned demonstration in Washington DC. Will there always be of Assets, agents, people working for federal agencies in the crowd and civilian close. Speaker 1: There there always could be. And if like like inaugurations, There would usually be some combined teams, out there, one for communications, but just, you know, for situational awareness. So it wouldn't be surprising, you know, of them, 4th July, different things like that where we have thry threat pictures or concerning threat pictures. Speaker 0: And what does that look like? Does that mean, you know, FBI agents dressed in dockers and of 10 issues, trying to Speaker 1: Well, it'd just be yeah. Just, yeah, plain clothes, you know. Plain clothes. Plain clothes to blend in. So that that wouldn't be unusual, and it it'd be, you know, just standard police work. That'd be good police work. So coming into January 6, and I talk about it in the book with the fact that shortly after January 6, I'm driving through Loudoun County. I'm coming I actually just, talked to somebody from the Hill, and I get a call from overseas. And it say it's press. I don't remember which what it was. It's somebody from, Great Britain. And they start asking me about feds in the crowd. And I was like, well, no. I would have been told. So now we're getting word that there of the feds in the crowd. I said, no. They I would have been told. I've got lots of friends with the, with the bureau. They all have my cell phone number. They they would have told me. You know, Thinking about that in Jill Sanborn's testimony in 2021 where she said they were taking over action to keep certain people from coming to January 6th to to watch DC, that's that's big for see for FBI to start taking over action. I mean, that's not covert, over. That's a big that's a big deal. Fast forward to February of this year, 2023, and the GAO report that says on January 4 January 3rd, the FBI was tracking 4 domestic terrorists that were talking of that coming to Washington, D. C, the Washington field office, their AOR, area of responsibility. By January 6, they were tracking 18 or 19, it's in the GAO report, of domestic terrorists. So think about that. They have 18 or 19 domestic terrorists coming to this event, So, of course, they're gonna have resources on them. And they're not you know, they you're not gonna be just putting 1 agent. You're gonna have multiples. So, you know, it'd be multiple with that. And I don't know how many they actually had so that would be regular standard police work. So I I would be surprised by that. But not to share that in the intelligence? That's concerning. Speaker 0: Of So, I mean, it seems like common sense suggests anyway that you would have to tell the chief of Capitol Police that, hey, we've got our guys in the crowd. Of Like, just because I mean, you you would wanna know the difference. Correct? Speaker 1: You would absolutely wanna know the difference and, you know, deconfliction. Of you want to have things like that. A lot of the, folks will will already know there's a lot of standard procedures for ways to deconflict so you don't have blue on blue type of situations. You'll have that. You know, I I will say this and just really Speaker 0: So that that would just just to because you have perspective, that would be the conventional way to the by the book way to do it. FBI would call you and say, hey, we've got these we're worried about people in the crowd, and we've got our guys there too. Here's who they are. Speaker 1: Yeah. So you so just to deconflict operations, They wouldn't necessarily call me. They might call my, deputy chief that's in charge of my intel and their Or should Speaker 0: but they would call me. Speaker 1: You would coordinate. You coordinate with DC police. You coordinate with park police. You coordinate with the service just so everyone kinda knew what was going on. And and really quickly, I do wanna say this, you know, you know, nowhere do I wanna imply or, indicate that I feel that, of, agents instigated this or in any way like that. I'm never never saying that. I haven't said that. And a lot of these, agencies came to my defense on January 6th, FBI Secret Service, stuff like that. So I just want to make sure it's clear, but there would have been some coordination. And when you look at it and you think with the intelligence coming in, if you think there's 19, of domestic terrorists coming to Washington DC, somehow that would have been included in some type of report. And when you look at the FBI's procedures, policies and procedures, and again, of go online. The, attorney general's guidance for domestic operations of the FBI specifically says the FBI has to do an assessment, an assessment which includes intelligence assessments of events that are they're identifying as being the target of possible threats and possible violence. I think that would have in the United States capital on January 6 Look through that document, I outlined it in the book and see all the repeated failure after failure after failure of fire on procedures to to start identifying intelligence and making the proper notifications. Speaker 0: So it but it does raise a and I I don't have the answer to this question and I hope I don't ever pretend that I do but Speaker 1: of It it does raise questions about Speaker 0: the behavior of some of the people in the crowd who were instigating others to to break the law, and who weren't arrested. And, you know, given our facial recognition software capabilities, hard to believe they can't be found. And I would specifically cite a man called Ray Epps, who's now a hero on the left and funded by the Democratic Party, etcetera. But take the politics out of it. Of What is that? Here you have a guy on camera repeatedly saying, we're going to the Capitol. Speaker 1: We need to go into the Capitol. Hang on. Into the Capitol. Speaker 0: And he's not in jail when people who who didn't go into the Capitol are in jail? I I don't what do you make of that? Speaker 1: Of the Capitol. Again, that's something I actually address in the book. It's funny. There's a lot in here. So my concern with that, now I look at it from a chief of police point of view, is you I have somebody that's down, and I believe he's right near the old executive office building on 5th, the day before January 6th, talking to a group of people, talking about we have to get into the building, we have to get into the building. And then the next day to see him at what's called the Pennsylvania Avenue Gate. It's one of the 2 fence lines I had down at the west front. Of, and he he's there and he clearly sees the banner the, metal crowd control barriers that are up with the sign saying restricted, you know. So he knows that's a restricted area And he's up there, and you see him lean in, and he whispers in somebody's ear, and he covers his mouth in such a way so you can't read his lips or anything, whispers in somebody's ear, and that person, moments later, is attacking my officers, that's suspicious hell to me. I I it raised a lot of concerns. Speaker 0: What is that? Speaker 1: You know? And what's interesting is I believe, Speaker 0: And and that's that's verified. The person of the Yeah. I think if Speaker 1: you watch the video, you see that, yeah, that person immediately go and start start pulling on the gate and start, you know, fighting with the officers. And what's interesting is of when I believe he went on 60 minutes. And on 60 minutes, what he said was he went up to the officer, and he told that officer, these officers are on our side. Don't have hurt these officers. I believe that was pretty much not verbatim, but don't hurt these officers. They're on our side. Don't don't hurt these officers. Well, if that's the case, Why would you cover your mouth and not yell it to everybody? Because it didn't seem like that protester was the only one that was possibly gonna be hurting the officers. We had a whole bunch of people of why wouldn't you tell it to the whole group? Speaker 0: I don't I don't know. I I I know that EPPSA is being encouraged by partisan democrats to sue people who raise these questions, but of their fair questions and I'm gonna raise them anyway. How given that tape could the January 6th committee of Defend RE Aps, which they did. Doesn't make any sense to me. Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm having trouble answering that one. I I don't know. Interesting. Speaker 0: Of How many, peep how many federal agents, officer officers, of assets, people connected with federal agencies. Do you think we're in the crowd? Do we have any idea? Speaker 1: I have I really have no idea. Speaker 0: More or fewer than normal, would you say? Speaker 1: Of well, if you have, again, going back to what I'm reading now in the G. O. Report with 19 domestic terrorist possibly coming in, I haven't I've never seen anything like that in Washington, D. C. So I you know, you may have a larger than usual presence. Speaker 0: Amazing. Who's Yogananda Pittman? Speaker 1: Of Yoganand Pitman was my assistant chief for intelligence and, secure security. Speaker 0: Okay. Of So, did she have the intelligence that you didn't have? Speaker 1: I I don't know. What do you mean you don't know? I I don't know. I you You don't know what you don't know. Speaker 0: I don't know. Speaker 1: Well, no. I don't know what she what she had and what she didn't have. But I do know that when you look at it and we immediately knew, I mean, anybody immediately knew, one of the first things you start to think about is this an intelligence failure. So think about it. We go through January 6. I was begging for the National Guard, refused of 4, refuse during it. We get the, capital under control. You know, I get them to where they can go back into session, of 7:30. They elect to go in at 8 and then the house goes at 9, but nonetheless so think about this. The very next day, less than 24 hours after we got control of the of the, of the Capitol Nancy Pelosi goes on national TV, blames leadership at the top of Capitol Police, of calls for my resignation on national TV and then the lies about me, okay? The very next day the very next day puts Yogananda Pittman as acting chief. Speaker 0: But Yogananda Pittman, you just described her as the head of intelligence for the Capitol Police. Correct. So if there was an intelligence failure, which again doesn't seem like a failure, it seems very intentional to me. But if there was such a failure, she'd be responsible. Correct? Or she'd be in the chain of responsibility anyway? Speaker 1: Well, I mean, she was she was the head of intelligence. So if there's intelligence failure See, my thing is do a proper analysis. You know? You know, why do a knee jerk reaction? I mean, putting her in charge, I mean, she ended up getting a a vote of no confidence, so she didn't get the position from the, from the police officers because many were upset with what happened. Where where did she wind up? Where is she now? Yeah. She's chief of police for the University of California, Berkeley. Interesting. Speaker 0: So right across from Nancy Pelosi's district Speaker 1: That is correct, sir. Speaker 0: In the Bay Area. Speaker 1: That is correct. Speaker 0: So you just kinda take the Bay Bridge over there, and that's Yeah. That's where she is now. What does that position pay? Do you know? Speaker 1: I think it pays, pays pretty well. There was, you know Speaker 0: Pays extraordinarily well. Speaker 1: I'm sure it pays I'm sure it pays pretty good. It's it's interesting. There was a hearing just recently, that was on it's on TV. You can look at it. Where the chief of police, Tom Manger, was asked about her position. It turns out that she was given some type of a of secret leave. So she'd leave, start her job on February 1st as the chief of police, and not retire from the Capitol Police for months later. Speaker 0: Of Oh, so you should get the benefits. Speaker 1: Yeah. Think about that. Yeah. It appears to be against department policy, you know, and nobody allegedly Speaker 0: was What you're saying is that the of head of intelligence for the capital police which demonstrably didn't have the intelligence that needed to protect the building. That person was first elevated to acting chief of capital police and then given a very high paying job right across from Nancy Pelosi's district at at the University of California Berkeley Speaker 1: That is correct and I will say this Speaker 0: So that looks like a reward to me Speaker 1: Well, I do know that the unit had significant intelligence and I know many people within the unit were pushing that intelligence up to the to the leadership of the unit, so I do I do know that Many of them became whistle blowers, and many of them were punished of and forced to resign. Yep. Speaker 0: This looks like a scam. Speaker 1: I mean, it's just saying. It it just gets more convoluted. Of you know, I I do. I feel so bad for the men and women in the police department, what they went through. I feel so bad for the intelligence analysts and what they went through. Many of them, you know, It was it was really, really bad. I feel bad for the officials that were either demoted, forced to resign over this, forced to retire early. There's a lot of people that need someone I think an outside entity, needs to come in and do some investigation about what what went on with Speaker 0: We already had. We already we've had many entities doing investigations. I believe we empaneled this of Committee or commission, this this body of members of Congress, that went on for about a year and was on the news every single night. Of Did they address any of these questions? Speaker 1: No, sir. Speaker 0: How could you how could you have a January 6th commission whose job it is to figure out what happened on January 6th, Not get to the bottom of, like, why the head of intelligence at Capitol Police didn't pass on the intelligence, where the chief of Capitol Police was kept in the dark and denied of support from the US military, why Yogananda Pittman wound up after failing on January 6th, getting a high paying job right across Nancy Pelosi's district, like, who wouldn't ask these questions? Speaker 1: Of the Capitol. Yes, well, I know there's people on the Hill still trying to ask those questions, and hopefully, they can get answers. But it looks like they keep running into roadblock after roadblock after roadblock. But but it's hard to believe two and a half years later, we're still at this point. I still think somebody along the line is going to find, you know, the smoking gun, the missing puzzle piece that puts us together, but it does. When you look at it and there's still so much more to it, it just begins to raise more and more questions. Speaker 0: It's just it's interesting to to talk to you because, This again, this is my assessment. You seem like a very straight arrow guy. Speaker 1: I try. Speaker 0: Well, I could it it it comes off you in waves. So and I mean that's a compliment but of how long how long did it take you to realize there's something very strange going on here? Speaker 1: I knew there was something strange going on pretty pretty soon. When I when I was running into the issues with of them not wanting me to testify. I was like, this is this starts getting a little weird. And then when I started sitting down and and talking to officers and getting information and finding out from some of the of some of the intelligence that was out there and where it was and seeing some of the emails of the intelligence analysts pushing up to their officials, I knew something was something was fishy. I I mean, think about it. How how how can somebody not look at all this and think something's something's odd? Speaker 0: So, I mean, we have a media whose job it is, of to get to the bottom of questions, like, these are at least to ask the questions of knowledgeable people with relevant experience and you you're at the top of that list. Of We interviewed you, never aired, at a previous job. But, how many other long interviews have you done with media outlets? Of Speaker 1: long ones, not not very many. Not, I actually can't think of any. I've done 60 minutes. That's probably about the longest. Speaker 0: And how long from your 60 minutes interview, How much of your account wound up on television do you think? Estimate. Speaker 1: 3 or 4 minutes. Speaker 0: 3 or 4 minutes. Of 3 or 4 minutes. So you're the chief of capital police on January 6th. Common sense suggests you'd be the 1st person Speaker 1: of That any reporter trying to figure out Speaker 0: what happened on January 6th would call. Speaker 1: You'd think. Speaker 0: Is your cell phone buzzing day and night of No. Curious reporters trying to find the truth? Speaker 1: No. No. It's, it's calmed down. I mean, 1st couple of days were something else, but, it's really it's really calmed down. And, you you know, I'm not stupid when it comes to law enforcement. I've been in law enforcement for 30 years. I've done everything from capturing homicide suspects to doing, you know, barricade situations. Of this didn't have to happen. This was screwed up from the get go, didn't have to happen, numerous opportunities to prevent it from of numerous opportunities from printing bringing my men and women from going through what they had to, and it never happened. There was never that opportunity to stop that train. Speaker 0: Have, of You know, there's always a concern that politics will infect law enforcement and the justice system more broadly. And and I and I think You thought about this as one of the reason. I think you said we need to be strictly apolitical in the way we administer law enforcement. It does seem like things have changed, of And it does seem like politics affect the way we enforce the law. Does it feel a way to you? Speaker 1: Yeah. And again, you know, one of the that's one of the things that many things that that are here. I talk about the 2020 riots versus the 20 the the January 6th attack. Speaker 0: The riots in front of the White House where famously St. John's Church was set on of Speaker 1: the fire. Oh, White House, across the country. You know, I talk about the White House, and I talk about an agency that was formed by Congress specifically for the protection of the United States president, of, the Washington DC Police Department. The White House is under attack, and they are prevented. They are prevented. I know it's not from Chief Newsom. It's from his you know, he was the chief at the time, would have been from, above him, therefore prevented from going on cap on White House grounds and helping the United States seek its service and defending the the White House. So think about that. You know, who made that decision? Of again, all I know is, you know, Nutrien's hands were tied. So Baer Bowser? Higher? Speaker 0: I don't know. Of but think Speaker 1: about that. Speaker 0: Somebody told when there and there was real rioting. In fact, I I think Well that more officers were injured At that riot, they were injured on January 6, I think. Speaker 1: Yep. Yep. Again, don't take my word. Jail report. More officers injured at the, of the protests up by the White House and on January 6th. And I'm told by Park Police, all charges were dropped according to the, the fighting at Lafayette Park and at the, at the White House. There were Secret Service agents bloodied and battered over there. There was a number of federal agencies that were hurt, structures set on fire. They tried to light the Hay Adams Hotel on fire that was occupied. Think about that. Charges dropped. No no such situation. I mean, when you look at the disparity of how justice is being applied, Again, that's that's scary. That becomes really scary when it becomes politicized like that, and that's what appears to have happened. Speaker 0: I mean, it sounds like Trump is the key to all of this. If Trump hadn't been the president, things would have been very responses would have been very different. Don't you think? I mean, if Barack Obama had been president, do you think That someone would have told MPD that Washington DC Police Department, they couldn't protect the White House? Speaker 1: Again, I don't of protect the White House? I don't know. I see what you're saying there. I I don't know. I mean, I think not. Speaker 0: Just look. I mean, it's a I I shouldn't ask you to answer hypothetical of their questions, but it does seem Seems so amazing. La last question. Thank you for doing this. Again, of I really appreciate this is important, and I hope that everyone who's interested in January 6th and its aftermath, which really has changed the country, will will watch this, of Watch this interview. But looking back after spending your entire life in law enforcement, how have your views of changed after January 6th? Speaker 1: Yeah. That's a big question. I mean, my views of law enforcement, I still think Law enforcement is a very honorable, profession. I really, really do. Screwed up in a lot of cities. I feel bad for a lot of people that are going into it. We need good cops. But right now, their hands are being tied. When you look at, what law enforcement's going on, I mean, I was just talking with somebody who, one of their officers in Washington, D. C. Arrested Somebody went to a scene of a robbery, recovered a weapon, recovered somebody else's wallet in possession with the, with the suspect, made the arrest, paper a gun, went in a person's pocket. And during the search, found a loaded handgun, went down to papers. No paper. No paper. Armed hand armed robbery means all charges were dropped. That's bad. That's bad when we're seeing the type of crime that we're seeing in some of these cities and They're not prosecuting some of these cases. I feel sorry for the officers. It's, you know, very dangerous for them. You know, I still, you know, love the professions, still love the officers, with the, Capitol police, Washington DC police still talk to them regularly. They're going through a lot, and I just don't think they're getting the back and they need. No. Speaker 0: They're not. And the effects on the rest of us are are We're seeing it. Steven Sund, former chief of Capitol Police, thank you so much. Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me on the of A dozen air people say the news is full of lies. On Kennedy's motorcade. 200 of And 39 people know the death of Jeffrey Epstein. Of