TruthArchive.ai - Tweets Saved By @TCNetwork

Saved - January 10, 2026 at 12:29 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

“[Ron DeSantis] flew to a foreign country, Israel, to sign a hate speech law for Florida.” @j_fishback and Tucker on Ron DeSantis: https://t.co/YbwjId1u7d

Video Transcript AI Summary
Tucker questions the foreign flag policy and DeSantis’ ties to donors like Ken Griffin, noting a moment when DeSantis signed a hate speech law abroad in Israel. He views that move as unconstitutional and part of an humiliation ritual. The other speaker responds that the origins trace to Randy Fine in Florida, who introduced the bill that effectively criminalizes antisemitism in the state. He emphasizes that any form of religious hatred should be condemned unequivocally, but notes an important legal concern: the statutory definition of antisemitism in Florida is written as 1010.5 in the state statute, and it says that criticizing the Jewish state, Israel, or holding them to a double standard, would be punished. The speaker highlights that this could affect student speech: a college student at Florida State University engaging in an earnest, good-faith debate about Netanyahu, Israel, or the Palestinian cause could say “Netanyahu is a war criminal” or “Israel is committing genocide” and potentially be punished and expelled from a taxpayer-funded university. He characterizes this as “messed up” and “unconstitutional” and “un American.” The conversation notes that the lawmakers from both major parties in Tallahassee supported the bill because donors wanted them to. Randy Fine introduced the bill and proposed having it signed in Israel. The host reiterates that he condemns antisemitism and attempts to separate condemnation of religious hatred from the issue of criminalizing attitudes, underscoring that people’s own attitudes can be ugly, but should not be criminalized. Key points raised: - The hate speech law in Florida, introduced by Randy Fine, could criminalize antisemitism, including certain criticisms of Israel. - The statute (referenced as 1010 five) defines antisemitism in a way that could punish debates or discussions about Israel on campus. - The law could lead to punishment or expulsion of students at taxpayer-funded universities for statements like “Netanyahu is a war criminal” or “Israel is committing genocide.” - The decision to sign the law in Israel and the involvement of donors (including Ken Griffin) are central to the critique. - The speakers emphasize the distinction between condemning antisemitism and endorsing the criminalization of attitudes, arguing the latter is unconstitutional and un-American, while noting bipartisan alignment in Tallahassee driven by donors.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: So I wanna ask about the foreign flag thing. I always admired DeSantis certainly during COVID. I thought he was just a a remarkable leader, interviewed him many times. I know him and his wife. And it was the foreign policy stuff that made me wonder, like, what is this, and how controlled is he by Ken Griffin and the rest of his donors? And then he had this moment where he signed a hate speech law Yeah. Out of the country. He flew to a foreign country, Israel, to sign a hate speech law for Florida. And I thought, well, this is obviously unconstitutional, it's immoral, but it's also part of an elaborate humiliation ritual where you have to go, not just like enslave your own people with a hate speech law, which that is, it's slavery, but you have to go kiss someone else's wall to show your obedience. And I was like, I'm out. Like, how did that happen? Speaker 1: Well, it started like most things, terrible things start here in Florida with Randy Fine. Randy Fine? Quite literally. Speaker 0: The genocide guy? Speaker 1: Yeah. The genocide guy. The starved away Gaza kids guy. I can't even believe he's real. Speaker 0: So what how did what did he have to do with So Speaker 1: he introduced this law, which effectively criminalized antisemitism in Florida. Now look, Tucker, I think you and I and your viewers recognize that any form of religious hatred should be condemned unequivocally. Speaker 0: Well, of yeah. I have condemned it. I've been condemned antisemitism. I've condemned attacking people for being Muslim with their kids for evil too. Right. I was called a jihadi for that. I'm against all of it, and I'm certainly opposed to the anti Christian hate from Speaker 1: Which is perhaps the most virulent. That's for sure. Speaker 0: So, no. I'm of course, I'm a totally I'm a Christian. I'm opposed to that, but you can't criminalize attitudes. Every person's free Speaker 1: to have his own attitudes, ugly as they may be, period. Correct. And the issue is if you look at if you look at the statutory definition of antisemitism here in Florida, which is one zero one zero five in our state statute, it actually says that criticizing the Jewish state, that would be Israel, holding them to a double standard, denying them their place on the world stage. That's literally in state statute one zero Speaker 0: one the law to criticize Israel. Speaker 1: About that. So if you're a college student at FSU and you're having an earnest good faith debate with someone who sympathizes with the Israeli cause, you with the Palestinian cause, whatever the case is, and one of you says Netanyahu is a war criminal or Israel is committing genocide. You could literally be punished and expelled from your taxpayer funded university by that. And that is that is messed up. It is unconstitutional. Speaker 0: It's totally Speaker 1: un American. It's totally un American. And of course, the Republicans and Democrats in Tallahassee got along with it because their donors wanted them to get along with it. Speaker 0: And so Randy Fine is the one who introduced that? Speaker 1: Introduced it. And it was his idea to have it signed in Israel.
Saved - December 12, 2025 at 12:18 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Human rights attorney Francesca Albanese: “I have exposed Amazon, Google, Microsoft” in helping Israel kill Palestinians. https://t.co/8daCV4cPmy

Saved - December 12, 2025 at 12:18 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

We remain grateful that @tedcruz gives so much attention to our podcasts and newsletters. It really means the world. Want to read what the Canada-born senator is so whipped up about for yourself? Sign up to have the TCN Morning Note sent straight to your inbox here: https://watchtcn.co/MorningNote

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@tedcruz - Ted Cruz

Nothing says America First like bear-hugging America-hating terrorists….

@AGHamilton29 - AG

Tucker can’t go one episode or newsletter without promoting lies about Israel or Jews. Latest episode with an antisemitic anti-American guest who was literally sanctioned by the Trump admin for her pro-terror agenda.

Saved - December 12, 2025 at 12:06 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Francesca Albanese is debanked and is banned from traveling to the US. Why? She criticized Israel. https://t.co/d1YdSw3W7D

Video Transcript AI Summary
The conversation centers on punitive measures allegedly imposed by the United States and the accusations surrounding who is responsible for violent crime and support of extremist groups. Speaker 0 accuses Speaker 1 of being shut down because of criticisms of people profiting from mass murder. In response, Speaker 1 details a cascade of sanctions and restrictions: “I’m banned from travel to The US. I am financially censored. I cannot have a a credit card. I cannot be receive payment. I cannot make payments.” Speaker 1 adds that health insurance has been suspended “because I’m sanctioned by The United States,” indicating a broad range of denials tied to U.S. sanctions. Speaker 0 challenges Speaker 1, asking if anything is being left out and probing whether Speaker 1 has engaged in activities such as sending money to Hamas or participating in actions against the IDF, labeling Hamas as “A terror group.” The implication of the question is to suggest that Speaker 1’s sanctions might be connected to support for hostile or criminal activity. Speaker 1 responds by reframing the accusation, stating, “The only one who’s aiding and abetting someone else committing crime is The United States.” This assertion presents the United States as the active party in aiding or abetting crimes, according to Speaker 1. Speaker 0 concludes the exchange with a soft expression of concession, saying, “I’m sorry. I’m sorry to agree with you on that,” implying reluctant agreement with Speaker 1’s critical stance toward U.S. actions. Key points emphasize the scope of Speaker 1’s sanctions: travel ban to the United States, financial censorship, inability to use a credit card, inability to receive or make payments, and suspension of health insurance due to U.S. sanctions. The dialogue also highlights a dispute over responsibility for violence and crime, with Speaker 1 asserting that the United States is the one aiding and abetting crimes, while Speaker 0 questions whether Speaker 1 has engaged with or supported extremist activity such as funding Hamas or opposing the IDF. The exchange ends with Speaker 0 acknowledging agreement with Speaker 1’s critical position on U.S. involvement, albeit reluctantly.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: You were shut down because you criticized all the people profiting from mass murder. Speaker 1: I'm banned from travel to The US. I am financially censored. I cannot have a a credit card. I cannot be receive payment. I cannot make payments. My, health insurance has been suspended because I'm sanctioned by The United States. Speaker 0: Is there anything you're leaving out? Did you send money to Hamas? Did you shoot at the IDF? I don't understand how you could have been treated like this without actively aiding Hamas? IDF? A terror group. Speaker 1: Look. The only one who's aiding and abetting someone else committing crime is The United States. Speaker 0: I'm sorry. I'm sorry to agree with you on that.
Saved - December 11, 2025 at 11:08 PM
reSee.it AI Summary
I note Tucker reads Donald Trump’s executive order, “Assuring the Security of the State of Qatar,” shielding Qatar from foreign attacks like Israel’s September bombing, and that Trump took the side of Qatar over Israel—here’s why Tucker explains.

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

“I bet not 100 people know this even happened.” Tucker reads Donald Trump’s executive order, “Assuring the Security of the State of Qatar,” protecting Qatar from foreign attacks like that of Israel, who bombed Qatar in September. “Donald Trump took the side of Qatar over and above Israel.” Why is that? Tucker explains.

Video Transcript AI Summary
Donald Trump was working to bring peace between Iran and Israel, and Israel didn’t want that at all. They tried to murder the negotiators in that round of peace talks from Hamas in Doha, and they tried to tell the world that Trump signed off on this, that Trump knew, totally false. Trump did not know. Not only did they do this, they tried to implicate Trump in it. A couple of weeks later he responded with an executive order that I’m going to read verbatim because it’s bet not one in a hundred people knows this even happened. This was in September: he signed an executive order called the Assuring the Security of the State of Qatar. The order states: The United States and the State of Qatar have been bound together by close cooperation, shared interests, and the close relationship between our armed forces. The State of Qatar has hosted The United States forces, enabled critical security operations, and stood as a steadfast ally in pursuit of peace, stability, and prosperity both in The Middle East and abroad, including as a mediator that has assisted The United States attempts to resolve significant regional and global conflicts. Listen: In recognition of this history and in light of the continuing threats to the state of Qatar posed by foreign aggression, it is the policy of The US to guarantee the security and territorial integrity of the state of Qatar against external attack. The United States shall regard any armed attack on the territory sovereignty or critical infrastructure of the state of Qatar as a threat to the peace and security of The United States. Oh, wait a second. What was the last act of foreign aggression against Qatar? What happened that exact same month? It was a bombing by Israel. So Israel bombs Qatar and Donald Trump issues an executive order saying if you do that again, reading by the language here, we’re going to war with you. Donald Trump took the side of Qatar over and above Israel and told Israel, and who knows if he’d actually do it, it’s in the executive order, If you do this again, that’s tantamount to an attack on us. That’s a security guarantee. Keep that in mind because there are a lot of Trump voters who are upset about nine eleven; the residue was still in their mouth. That part of the world did it to us. Islam did it to us. And anyone who wants to have a normal relationship with an Islamic country is probably pro Al Qaeda. I get it. I know those feelings. Had them. But here Donald Trump, the guy that you voted for taking Qatar’s side against Israel. Why is that? Because Donald Trump is a secret Islamist? No. Because Qatar is a lot better for The United States than Israel has been.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Donald Trump was working to bring peace between Iran and Israel, and Israel didn't want that at all. And so they tried to murder the negotiators in that round of peace talks from Hamas in Doha. And then they tried to tell the world that actually Trump signed off on this, that Trump knew, totally false. Trump did not know. Not only did they do this, they tried to implicate Trump in it. And he responded a couple of weeks later with an executive order that I'm gonna throw on my glasses and read this because it's bet not one in a 100 people knows this even happened. So this was at the September year. Listen to this. He signed an executive order, and this is verbatim, called the assuring the security of the state of Qatar. So next time you hear someone on Fox News, be like, the terrorist state of Qatar. If only Trump knew. Right? Assuring the security of the state of Qatar. And we're quoting, over the years, The United States and the state of Qatar have been bound together by close cooperation, shared interests, and the close relationship between our armed forces. The state of Qatar has hosted The United States forces, enabled critical security operations, and stood as a steadfast ally in pursuit of peace, stability, and prosperity both in The Middle East and abroad, including as a mediator that has assisted The United States attempts to resolve significant regional and global conflicts. Listen to this. In recognition of this history and in light of the continuing threats to the state of Qatar posed by foreign aggression, it is the policy of The US to guarantee the security and territorial integrity of the state of Qatar against external attack. The United States shall regard any armed attack on the territory sovereignty or critical infrastructure of the state of Qatar as a threat to the peace and security of The United States. Oh, wait a second. What was the last act of foreign aggression against Qatar? What happened that exact same month? It was a bombing by Israel. So Israel bombs Qatar and Donald Trump issues an executive order saying if you do that again, reading by the language here, we're going to war with you. Donald Trump took the side of Qatar over and above Israel and told Israel, and who knows if he'd actually do it, hard to believe, but it's in the executive order, If you do this again, that's tantamount to an attack on us. That's a security guarantee. That's unbelievable. So keep that in mind because there are an awful lot of Trump voters, really nice, sincere people who are still upset about nine eleven. The residue was still in their mouth. That part of the world did it to us. Islam did it to us. And anyone who wants to have a normal relationship with an Islamic country is probably pro Al Qaeda. I get it. I get it. I know those feelings. Had them. But here's Donald Trump, the guy that you voted for taking Qatar's side against Israel. Why is that? Because Donald Trump is a secret Islamist? No. Because Qatar is a lot better for The United States than Israel has been.
Saved - December 11, 2025 at 8:06 PM
reSee.it AI Summary
I recall a lot of weird COVID stuff: kids masked, NYC firefighters fired for not taking vaccines, Colbert dancing in syringe outfits. Amid it all, the medical establishment resisted non-vaccine treatments. An FDA report said the Big Pharma shots killed at least 10 children, yet officials scolded those seeking alternatives. This Tucker Carlson Show with medical historian John Leake offers insights you won’t want to miss. Watch the full episode below.

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Looking back, a lot of weird stuff happened during COVID. The government forcing children to wear muzzles. New York City firefighters losing their jobs because they didn’t take the vaccine. Stephen Colbert dancing with men in syringe costumes. Amid all of that madness, perhaps the strangest part of the pandemic saga was the medical establishment’s refusal to embrace non-vaccine treatments for the virus. A recent FDA report revealed that the Big Pharma shots killed at least 10 children, but officials scolded Americans who looked for alternative options. Why would they do that? This episode of The Tucker Carlson Show, featuring medical historian John Leake, offers insight you won’t want to miss. Watch the full episode below.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

Ritual piercing of the body. The shedding of blood. The promise of salvation. John Leake explains the religion of vaccines, and why its adherents are dangerous. (0:00) The Vaccine Hesitation Heresy (8:11) The Bribing of Churches to Promote the Covid Vaccine (14:20) The Religious Annunciation of the Vaccine (21:03) Vaccine Worship (33:58) Why Do Vaccine Developers Have Legal Immunity? (39:26) Tyrannical Humiliation Rituals (45:49) The Demonic Forces at Work in the Medical Industry (1:07:25) Lucifer, Pride, and Tribalism (1:25:44) Man's Attempt to Replicate the Language of God (1:31:46) Are We Changing People's Genetic Code? (1:48:46) The Original War on Handwashing (1:56:00) The Cancer Coverup of the 1950s Includes paid partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
- The discussion opens with a critique of how public health authorities in the United States and much of the media discouraged experimentation with COVID-19 treatments, instead pushing vaccination and portraying other approaches as dangerous. The hosts ask why treatments were sidelined and treated as heretical to question. - Speaker 1 explains that the core idea was to stamp out “vaccine hesitation,” which he frames not as a purely scientific issue but as a form of heresy. He notes a broad literature on vaccine hesitancy and contrasts it with the perception of the vaccine as a liberating savior. He points to a Vatican €20 silver coin (2022) commemorating the COVID-19 vaccine, described by Vatican catalogs as “a boy prepares to receive the Eucharist,” which the speakers interpret as an overlay of religious iconography with vaccination imagery. They also reference Diego Rivera’s mural in Detroit, interpreted as depicting the vaccine as a Eucharist, and a South African church banner reading “even the blood of Christ cannot protect you, get vaccinated,” highlighting what they see as provocative uses of religious symbolism to promote vaccination. - They claim that the Biden administration’s COVID Vaccine Corps distributed billions of dollars to major sports leagues (NFL, MLB) and that many mainline churches reportedly received money to push vaccination, with many clergy not opposing the push. The implication is that monetary incentives influenced public figures and organizations to advocate for vaccines, contributing to a climate in which questioning orthodoxy was difficult. - The speakers discuss the social dynamics around vaccine “heresy,” using Aaron Rodgers’ experience with isolation and shaming in the NFL and Novak Djokovic’s experiences in Australia to illustrate how prominent individuals who questioned or fell outside the orthodoxy faced punitive pressure. They compare this to a Reformation-era conflict over doctrinal correctness and describe a psychology of stigmatizing dissent as a tool to enforce conformity. - They argue the imperative driving institutions was the belief that the vaccine was the central, non-negotiable public-health objective, seemingly above other medical considerations. The central question they raise is why vaccines became the sole priority, seemingly overriding a broader, more nuanced evaluation of medical options and individual risk. - The conversation shifts to epistemology and the nature of science. Speaker 1 suggests medicine often relies on orthodoxies and presuppositions, rather than purely empirical processes. He recounts a Kantian view that interpretation depends on preexisting categories, and he uses this to argue that medical decision-making can be constrained by established doctrines, which may obscure questions about optimization and safety. - They recount the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act and discuss Sara Sotomayor’s dissent, which argued that liability exposure is a key incentive for safety and improvement in vaccine development. They argue that the current system creates minimal liability for manufacturers, reducing the incentive to optimize safety, and they use this to question how the system encourages continuous safety improvements. - The hosts recount the early-treatment movement led by Peter McCullough and others, including a Senate hearing organized by Ron Johnson in November 2020 to discuss early-treatment options with FDA-approved drugs like hydroxychloroquine. They criticize what they describe as aggressive pushback against such approaches, noting that McCullough faced professional sanctions and lawsuits despite presenting peer-reviewed literature. - They return to the concept of orthodoxy and dogma, arguing that the medical establishment often suppresses dissent, citing YouTube removing a McCullough interview and the broader pattern of silencing challenge to the vaccine narrative. They stress that the social and institutional systems prize conformity and punish those who deviate, creating a climate of distrust toward official health bodies. - The discussion broadens into metaphysical and philosophical territory, with references to the Grand Inquisitor from Dostoevsky’s The Brothers Karamazov. They propose that elites—whether religious, political, or scientific—tend to prefer “taking care” of people through control rather than preserving individual responsibility and free will. The Grand Inquisitor tale is used to illustrate a recurring human temptation: to replace personal liberty with a protected, paternalistic order. - They discuss messenger RNA (mRNA) technology as a central manifestation of Promethean or Luciferian intellect—humans attempting to “read and write in the language of God.” They describe the scientific arc from transcription and translation to mRNA vaccines, noting Francis Collins’s The Language of God and the idea of humans “coding life.” They caution that mRNA vaccines involve injecting genetic material and point to the symbolic and ritual power of vaccination as a form of modern sacrament. - The speakers emphasize that the mRNA approach represents both a profound scientific achievement and a source of deep concern. They discuss fertility signals and potential adverse effects, including myocarditis in young people, and cite the July 2021 NEJM case study as highlighting safety concerns for myocarditis in adolescent males. They reference the FDA deliberative-committee discussions, noting that some influential voices publicly questioned the risk-benefit calculus for young people, yet faced pressure or dismissal within the orthodox framework. - They describe post-hoc investigations and testimonies suggesting that adverse events (like myocarditis) might have been downplayed or obscured, and they assert that public trust in health institutions has eroded as a result. They mention ongoing debates about whether vaccine-induced changes might affect future generations, referencing studies about transcripts of mRNA in cancer cells and liver cells, and they stress the need for independent scrutiny by scientists not “entranced” by the vaccine program. - The dialogue returns to the broader human condition: a tension between curiosity and restraint, knowledge and humility. They return to Dostoevsky’s moral questions about free will, responsibility, and the limits of human knowledge, concluding that scientific hubris can lead to dangerous consequences when it overrides open inquiry and accountability. - In closing, while the guests reflect on past missteps and the need for integrity in medicine, they underscore the ongoing questions about how evidence is interpreted, how dissent is treated, and how society balances scientific progress with humility, transparency, and respect for individual judgment.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Thank you, John, for doing this. All through the COVID experience, tragedy, I had this kind of recurring question in my mind, which no one's ever answered, and I think that you have gotten to the answer or or close to the answer. And the question is this, why were public health authorities in The United States and acting in concert with the media so intent on discouraging Americans from treating COVID? There was this persistent and very aggressive and at times really vicious campaign to get people to stop thinking about how to treat this illness, which we were told was gonna wipe out a huge percentage of humanity, and is to accept the vaxx. But no treatment at all because that's fish tank cleaner. It's horse tranquilizer. What was that? And I'm gonna stand back and let you tell the story. What was that? Speaker 1: Well, the short answer is that it was to stamp out the heresy of what is called vaccine hesitation. So vaccine hesitation, there's a huge literature on it. It's a psychological analysis of all of the factors that would cause anyone, a man, a woman, a young person, to hesitate to get the vaccine. And I wanna emphasize this, you Google vaccine hesitancy, you're gonna get a million search results. So what is vaccine hesitancy? And I think it's best understood not so much in scientific terms, not in empirical scientific terms, it's a form of heresy. And this was the thing that my co author, Doctor. Peter McCullough and I, we had conversations about this for the last five years. Why is it heresy? And conversely, why is the vaccine a kind of, in the minds of so many people, something like a savior? Well, a liberator and a savior. And I I hope I'm not out of line by showing you this on the cover of the book. I know this kinda sounds like a, you know, plugging the book, but there's a reason for this. That do you know what that is? Speaker 0: I don't. Speaker 1: That is a €20 silver coin issued by the Vatican in the year 2022 commemorating the COVID nineteen vaccine, specifically the messenger RNA vaccine. Actually? Mhmm. And you will observe the traditional Catholic iconography, the the three, the Trinity. You could you could go into, for example, the the art history museum in Vienna. There's a Raphael painting, Madonna of the Meadow, and it's this tripartite figures. I think in Madonna in the Meadow, it's the Virgin Mary, Christ, and John the Baptist. So that three, and then here you have the cross, when somebody looks at that, particularly if they're Roman Catholic, they immediately have all of the iconography and all the feelings and thoughts. Speaker 0: That's the most resonant image possible. Speaker 1: For sure. So, if you look at the New Mystic catalog, the the coin catalog for the Vatican, it it issues different metals and coins and so forth. It is described as a boy prepares to receive the vaccine. Speaker 0: Not really. Speaker 1: A boy prepares to receive the vaccine. Speaker 0: This is his first vaccine. Speaker 1: Sorry. Excuse me. You got it. Yeah. I mean, the grammar, the number of words, it's identical. A boy prepares to receive the Eucharist. So what Francis did with this, and I don't know if he's the guy making the decisions, is let's take the existing religious iconography, the idea of Christ the Savior, the one that will protect you or at least your soul, And how are we supposed to interpret this other than what's the vaccine that's the savior? So I saw that and I thought, that's rather remarkable. I wonder if there are any other indications of this overlaying vaccine iconography on top of existing religious iconography, and I just started finding them everywhere. Speaker 0: Really? Well, there's that famous, not famous enough, but still famous Diego Rivera mural that I believe hangs in Detroit, painted in the thirties, which presents the vaccine as a kind of Eucharist. Speaker 1: Right. The in that iteration I think that's a funny painting, by the way. I'm glad that you mentioned that. In that iteration, it would seem that the central figure is the Virgin Mary, she has the sort of Christ child, like in a manger, there are these different animals around the manger like the Nativity. What he's actually doing with that is the different animals around the Nativity scene, there's a horse, there's a cow, I think there's a goat, that's in the way it's described is a reference to the serum that back in those days, I think this was in the thirties. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And that's a reference to the serum that is, for example, extracted from horses, with diphtheria. The cow is obviously smallpox. So, it's taking the nativity scene and it's making it a celebration of this great human achievement, but they're everywhere. So Really? This kind of iconography, I mean, it's a big world and there's a lot of images, obviously. But we found a church in South Africa, and I think it's a Roman Catholic church, it might be an Episcopal Church of England, but I think it's a I should remember this. But there's a huge banner hanging from the facade that said, even the blood of Christ cannot protect you, get vaccinated. And what's interesting about this, it shows Speaker 0: For real? For real. Speaking of heresy. Speaker 1: In it, the subliminal quality of this piece of propaganda is remarkable because blood, it's all black block script except for the word blood, it's blood red, and then the word vaccine, the script isn't blood red. So you see the equivalence, but it's not really an equivalence, there's the association of equivalence, but in fact the vaccine is more effective than the blood of Christ in protecting the beneficiary. So what is this? This is Well, it's shocking. Speaker 0: I didn't know any of this. Speaker 1: Yeah. It is shocking. Speaker 0: Are there churches in The United States that have spread this Speaker 1: idea? Well, I've not seen anything quite that crass, that extreme and of of course this is, you know, the context at South Africa. Somebody at that church seems to think you have to hit people with a sledgehammer in order to to get them Right. To overcome their vaccine hesitancy. But one of the things that doctor McCullough and I discovered was very alarming that the so called Biden administration I believe it was called the COVID Vaccine Corps, which dispersed billions of dollars to various recipients. The major sports leagues, the NFL, I think Major League Baseball, they received just an outright bribe. I don't see how else you can characterize this. It's just uncle Sam is going to give you a bunch of dough and you're going to basically force this on your league, and and there's a reason for that that we will get into. But also the mainline Episcopal mainline Episcopal Protestant evangelical churches, Roman Catholic churches, all of their clergy receives money to, I don't know how else to put it, push the vaccine. And there were very few, pastors or or priests or rector what was it in the Episcopal church? Speaker 0: Rectors. Speaker 1: Rectors who refuse. And, you know Speaker 0: But how how I mean, that right there strikes me as a as a violation, well, of the First Amendment, which prohibits state religion, but also of their their duties as Christian leaders. You can't take money from the government to push something like that. I mean, I don't understand are these people still in leadership? It was only five years ago. Speaker 1: I mean, would I would you're asking questions now that Peter and I have been asking for five years and we've been profoundly puzzled by this. It's very confounding. And, you know, ultimately, well, I wanna mention the NFL as as well, and then the the tennis league, the professional tennis league as well. So Aaron Rodgers, the Green Bay Packers quarterback, he goes on to Joe Rogan, and he describes this sort of struggle session that the NFL, that the management, the administrators of the Green Bay Packers put him through. Extreme isolation, shaming, I don't know if you saw the interview, but he's this kind of good natured tough guy who's just sort of speaking in a matter of fact way with with Joe Rogan, and I began to realize whether Aaron Rodgers conceptualized this way or not, it's very apparent. He was perceived as being guilty of heresy. It it's like I mean, the most obvious example of this is like Martin Luther in Germany. It's like your I think he was in a Dominican or an Augustinian friar. I can't remember which order. But he posts his theses on the door of the castle church in Wittenberg and it's like the game is on. Okay, you just committed heresy, you know the story, the the holy office, the the pope himself excommunicates him and there's sort of no hope for him. In the case of Aaron Rodgers, I believe it's the same psychology. It's you're a very prominent person now, in the case of Martin Luther, he's hanging around with, I think, a Saxon duke, you can't do this. If you do this, because now people are looking up to you, if you commit heresy and you get away with it, the whole stamping out of vaccine hesitancy will be imperiled. Does that make sense? It makes absolute sense. So this this, you know, just under the thumb, just make your life as miserable as possible. Speaker 0: Everything serves the imperative. Speaker 1: The imperative. Which is the Speaker 0: way organizations work. They all have an imperative. Usually, imperative is self preservation, expansion, accumulation of power, whatever. But whatever the imperative is, whatever the goal is, everything is subservient to that. That's just that's how people are. That's how organizations are. It doesn't answer the question, why is giving people the vaccine the only thing that matters? I think that's and I'm jumping so far ahead in the story, and I and I hope that you can shed some light on that question, but it all goes back to the fact that public health authorities, political leadership, clergy, everyone with any power at all in the West, not just The United States, decided the only thing that matters is getting this needle into the arms of our populations. That's it. Speaker 1: That was it. You know But why? Well, let's let's Speaker 0: start Sorry. I said I would shut up. I'm not. Well, this Christmas, give the gift of sleep with Eight Everybody needs good rest for most of their days, but few know how to actually get it. Eight Sleep's pod five is the answer to that. Pod five is a smart mattress that automatically regulates your body temperature throughout the night. It's proven to deliver up to an extra hour of good sound sleep every single night. That will change your life if you get it. Plenty of people on our staff use the pod five and they are very psyched. That's why they're so focused and well rested. I can see them humming around right now. The full body feeling of comfort, that's what keeps you in the sack and fully crashed out. We recommend it strongly. So we are all in an Eight Sleep. As we've told you, they extended their biggest sale of the year. Use the code Tucker at this address, 8sleep.com, eight,sleep.com/tucker for $400 off the Pod five Ultra. And there's a reason Eight Sleep has won the Men's Health Sleep Award, the coveted sleep award, because it's awesome. 8sleep.com/tucker. Speaker 1: Let let's start with the Annunciation. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: Okay. So the annunciation happened in April 2020. So Bill Gates makes the rounds, CNN, MSNBC. So call it the Angel Gabriel. He he makes the annunciation. He says, you know, the world is all, you know, turned on its head and, you know, we're gonna have a hard time going back to normal and the economy is, you know, a a mess. And so it's a kind of depiction of the wasteland, you know, fertility, the the the happiness of the kingdom, it's it's all just going straight to hell. The only way we're going to be able to go back to normal is basically when essentially everybody on the planet gets the vaccine. Okay. So I hope I'm not pressing on this metaphor too far, but the annunciation. So all is bleak. The world is a mess. You know, normalcy has been completely turned on its head. We can only go back to normal. He actually uses that phrase. We can only go back to normal when everyone gets the vaccine. Well, remember, this is April 2020. There's no there's no I mean, the the the clinical trial for the Moderna vaccine, which Moderna made with had had developed with the NIH, with Anthony Fauci's NIH, I mean, had just gone in to human trials. I say just. It actually went into human trials very quickly. We can talk about that as well. But how does mister Gates already know in April that this is going to come quickly enough? A, usually takes years to develop a new vaccine, quickly enough, and that it will be safe and then it will be effective. Well, the answer is he already knew it was a fait accompli. It was a foregone conclusion. It's coming. It's coming quickly. And when everybody gets it, then and only then will we be able to go back to normal. So consider all of the assumptions in this proposition. It's it's just perfectly astonishing. The Department of Defense and Health and Human Services in July 2020, they say, well, we've already inked the contract. We've already signed the contract to purchase I can't remember how many 100,000,000 doses of Pfizer BioNTech's vaccine. And you think we've already written it's not we don't have it yet. It's not been developed fully. Human trials for phase two haven't even commenced. This is a fait accompli. It's already been decided and it's already been decided by the second richest man in the world that everybody's gonna get it. So it's done. It's a done deal. So when Doctor. Peter McCullough writes an editorial in The Hill in August 2020 saying, this is just a big gamble. Our public health authorities, our military, our health and human services, they've all decided that this is coming, but it's a complete gamble. This is a new technology. It's a genetic technology. We don't know the long term effects. We don't know how it's going to affect children. This is a gamble. And what happened to McCullough when he started talking this way? Same thing with Aaron Rodgers. Relentless persecution. Relentless. Fired from his job at a major university hospital. Sued all of his editorships of various academic journals pulled, his professorships pulled, just canceled, annihilated, sued, encumbered with attorneys, you know, the whole thing. So you're probably asking, okay. Where is all of this going? Let me just give you one more example to make my point. I think professional athletes are considered particularly in the eyes of young men who are potentially the most dangerous people to those in power. Like, if the young guys kind of get together and say we're not putting up with this, you know, then we've really got a problem because they're harder to control. So I think the attitude of professional sportsmen is of particular interest. So Novak Djokovic has recovered from COVID nineteen. He had the illness, it was symptomatic, PCR confirmed, he's done, he got through it. It's not surprising that a man of his physical conditioning got through it without a problem, but he's done. His body has been infected, his immune system has mounted a response, it's overcome the the infectious agent, then he's recovered. There's no better immunity than that. I mean, if you wanna understand how vaccines work in theory and in practice, it is to induce the body's immune system or stimulate the body's immune system to respond to an invading microorganism. So there's no better vaccine than actually getting through the illness. Why do we have vaccines? The the thought going back to Jenner is there are diseases which are extremely dangerous, which could cause horrible disease and and mortality. The idea of a vaccine is induce natural immunity without putting the recipient through the trials and and and the danger and possible death that he would experience if he just got the bug. Okay? Does that make sense? Speaker 0: Of course, it does. Speaker 1: So this proclamation, vaccine immunity for COVID nineteen, it's better than natural immunity. That is prima facie totally preposterous and absurd, no one that's ever spent any time studying immunology would believe that for one Speaker 0: No epidemiologist could believe that. Speaker 1: No immunologist. Well, how could you? I mean, it just on the face of it is totally preposterous, but this is what we were told. Now it's very interesting, because I immediately perceived this just from reading a textbook of immunology. So I knew like this is on the face of it insane. It's only been in the last few weeks, I mean, I mean the last few weeks. Here we are kind of Speaker 0: getting In 2025? Speaker 1: In 2025. That Sanjay Gupta and Paul Offit, who's a very prominent vaccine vaccinologist, had made the rounds and said, you know something? That that that really wasn't correct to smear natural immunity in the case of COVID nineteen. That technically wasn't true. Speaker 0: How could those men still have jobs in medicine? If you watch this show, you know that we love PureTalk. It is amazing wireless service with absolutely the best prices. 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Puretalk.com/talker to switch today. Puretalk.com/talker to switch to America's wireless. PureTalk. Taxes and fees not included. Go to the site to get all the details, but those are the basics. I don't know. That's to me, it's really these are social questions. It's questions about the system in which we live. How could you defend a system that allows that level of dishonesty and levies no penalty against people who promote lies. I just don't understand that. Speaker 1: Because the factual truth of the matter is secondary, perhaps even tertiary tertiary is secondary or perhaps even a distant third place to to the Orthodoxy, to maintaining the Orthodoxy. Right. What I wanna, you know, so I'm I'm telling you the story, I mean, realizing this is something that came about through, I mean, we're now five years into this. Years of reflection and and and conversation and and debate with with my co author doctor Peter McCullough, and so the question is, could it be that we're constantly being told follow the science? Science is the thing that governs rational decision making. We're always being told that, but I think the big realization is most human affairs and decision making, it's actually not outside of something like Newtonian mechanics, like the weights and balances on an aircraft or engineering a building or, you know, all of the things in which mechanical forces can be measured and engineered in accordance with the the force that's being exerted on it. Apart from, let's keep it simple, Newtonian mechanics, there's so much in human existence, the way the body works, the mysteries of of why do some people get sick, why do some people don't, why do some people live longer than others? All of these questions, we call it medical science, but in fact, it is so multifactorial. There are so many different known and unknown factors at play that none of this can be measured. So what the medical mind has done is, I I think perhaps without even being fully conscious of it, it's basically adopted orthodoxies, a doctrinal view of medicine. And if if if you if you look at the history Speaker 0: Can I just ask you to pause? I hope that people watching this, if they didn't fully understand what you just said, will rewind it and listen to that again. That's the that's the best explanation I've ever heard for what's gone wrong, what you just said right there. Speaker 1: One starts with presuppositions, and then that's how you interpret the world. Your interpretive framework begins with your presuppositions and that's how you actually view the world. Now I come out, my formal training was in philosophy and this was, I mean, I I won't bore the audience with rehashing academic philosophical debate, but there was a very very big debate in the eighteenth century between what philosophers called empiricism, the foremost representative of this was David Hume, and then rationalism, the foremost representative being, Descartes, Rene Descartes. So Imma Immanuel Kant, this sort of unusually scholarly guy living in Koenigsberg, Germany, which back then was part of Prussia. It was actually a Hanse city, a free city in in the Hanseatic League. Very thoughtful, contemplative guy. I mean, that's kinda all he did was contemplate. And he came to the conclusion, which he presented in a book called The Critique of Pure Reason, that in fact it's not it's a combination of both. In order to interpret the world, to make any sense of it at all, It's true that we have sensory data coming in and you can pay attention to it and observe patterns, but you can't really interpret it unless you have certain categories that are already in your mind. Exactly. This Speaker 0: was our breakfast conversation this morning, and it has such effects on the way we live and understand things. Speaker 1: It does. And so, we live in a world now in which I think an increasing number of Americans, of our citizenry, those who are awake and have some sense that paying attention, if they're paying attention, if they have been paying attention for the last few years, And COVID-nineteen is an interesting story because I think what happened with COVID-nineteen, much of the fraud that was presented to us was so extreme and so crass that it prompted, it sort of Kant talked about reading David Hume. He said it it awakened me from my dogmatic slumber. And and and I like that phrase. It's like people began to think our government is acting so weird and people with any familiarity, for example, with immunology, I hope I'm can say something slightly vulgar. They're thinking this is such colossal bullshit that, like, what is the government doing? What what is this weird priesthood of vaccinologists telling us? It's just it just can't be true. So I think that awakened a lot of people from their dogmatic slumber about our institutions. And now we're in this weird moment where a lot of American people have started to view the US government in a way that a wife with a philandering husband might start to view his representations. Like, she's caught him 10 times running around on her. He swears up and down that he's seen the light, that he he tells the truth, that, you know, he's sworn off the girls. But at that point, even if he has sworn off the girls, the trust has been totally demolished. Speaker 0: So, Speaker 1: we're in a weird, very unhappy moment right now, In which Well put. In which Speaker 0: Weird and unhappy. That's exactly right. Speaker 1: In which we just don't believe anything that our institutions tell us. And and I don't rejoice at that. I don't see how this republic is going to survive if we don't have some faith in our institutions. Speaker 0: I agree completely. Speaker 1: But the question is how can it be won back? Anyway, that's another question. So, vaccines, like other things that we've seen in medical history, are now an object of orthodoxy. And you go to medical school, you read your textbooks, you attend your lectures, and you are told this is the reality of this product, of this technology, and that's it. It's axiomatic. There's no questioning it. There's no examining it. There's no critically evaluating it. There's no even going back just to ask, is it optimized? I mean, so a car manufacturer could say, well, it's axiomatic that a car has to have functioning brakes. And you say, well, are they optimized brakes? Or the materials? Is is the the calipers? Is all of that the best brakes that we could put on a car to make sure that a good reaction time, the driver's not drunk, if he hits the brakes, the car is gonna stop. Are they the best brakes? Well, you can't ask that about vaccines. You you can't say, well, some of these vaccines, you know, they go back to the nineteen thirties when they were developed. Are they optimized? You can't even ask that. So what is that telling us? The other thing is don't ask any questions and observe that since 1986, the vaccine manufacturers have received full liability immunity in the event that their products injure or kill. Speaker 0: Christmas season is here, and although it's a bit of a cliche, it really is important to keep Christ in Christmas. 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You will not regret it. Get three months for free at hallowed.com/tucker to experience greater peace and stillness this Christmas. Speaker 1: So this is a very notable moment in this story that I found rather stunning. So that 1986 Vaccine Injury Act was questioned in court. The case was Brusowitz versus Wyeth. There was a girl who was badly injured, I believe it was a pertussis vaccine, developed encephalitis, severe brain damage, basically destroyed the child for the rest of her life. So the parents Sue Wyeth, which had in the interim been acquired by I'm not gonna say who they'd been acquired by, I don't want to to risk, you know, saying the wrong but but Wyeth had been acquired by one of the major pharmaceutical companies. The case was Bruzelwitz versus Wyeth, and and the question was, and it went to the Supreme Court, is the liability protection provided by the 1986 Vaccine Injury Act, Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, is that constitutional? So the court ruled in favor of Wyeth, and mister and missus Brusowith were told, you know, sorry, there's nothing that can be done, the act is upheld. But there was a dissenting justice. It was Justice Sotomayor, and she wrote a dissenting opinion, and it's an excellently reasoned dissenting opinion, it shows how far the liberal mind has come since 2010. She writes the most reasonable, sensible, dissenting view of vaccines. And what she says is liability, product liability, being subject to tort litigation is the primary incentive for optimizing the safety and the efficacy of the product. If you just tell somebody, oh, looks great, you know, it's been around for thirty years, Cool. Everyone has to get it zero liability. What is the human nature being what it is? What's the incentive to improve it? Speaker 0: There isn't any. Speaker 1: None. I mean, what are are we to expect the CEO of Pfizer, which has very long civil and criminal rap sheet for fraud, for concealing bad safety data, for overstating efficacy? Are are we to believe that suddenly the corporate board of Pfizer is going to develop such a strong conscientious approach to business that they're just going to say, well, we don't have any liability, but I think we ought to just get busy optimizing it anyway. It it's it's not a it's it's not a realistic. Speaker 0: No. It's not. It's not. People respond to the systems in which they live and work. So I'm not even blaming Pfizer though, you know, obviously, I'm opposed to Pfizer on every level, but it's not Pfizer's fault No. That that's the law passed by congress. Right. Speaker 1: Right. So, I mean, this is our story. We started off, a first phase of this was something that hit Doctor. McCullough so hard and there's an interesting coincidence here. I had heard about him. I had heard about his senate testimony on 11/19/2020. A very good man, senator Ron Johnson organized senate testimony senate hearing to discuss the question of early treatment. Is there anything with a good safety profile that could possibly help to keep people from falling badly ill, going to hospital and possibly dying in hospital? Is there that's what doctors do. Is there anything that we could do to help? Now the first principle is safety, but what these guys were looking at were FDA approved drugs with some of the best safety profiles, you know, in the business. Hydroxychloroquine, it was FDA approved in 1956. There's a wide range of indications for it. The most common one in The States for decades was rheumatoid arthritis. People had taken hydroxychloroquine against rheumatoid arthritis for a decade and suddenly were told that it's dangerous? So it was actually the eye doctors, the retina doctors, that first recognized that's not true. Because one of the things that retina doctors have to look out for is if someone has been taking hydroxychloroquine every day for over a decade for treating rheumatoid arthritis, sometimes retinal doctors will see a toxicity that starts to affect the retina, okay? Every day for over ten years, We're talking a five day course of hydroxychloroquine. So so this is again, it's this is absurd. And and one of the things that I think you've talked about, you've touched on in your other programs, is a tyrant will often and and where tyranny comes from in the human mind and and and how it develops and takes over institutions is a subject we could discuss. But one of the things the tyrant does is insists on total absurdities. And what happens to the people is they either accept that it's patently ridiculous or they become so demoralized that the government is making this assertion that they just give up. It's like, okay, you know, I guess I'm just going to have to tune all of this out and, you know, go surfing in Mexico or something. Like, just forget it. It's and I think that that's actually intentional. So I don't really like partisan politics, but remember that this is happening during the Biden administration when the first vaccine mandates get underway. So you look at the Biden administration and starting with the president himself, I mean, we're told that he's sharp as a tack. So either you come to accept that and you think, well, you know, I I guess he's, you know, he's he's sharp as a tag. I guess, I mean, that's what we're being told. Or you're so demoralized by that monstrous absurdity that you just say, I guess we're done. I mean, I guess the republic is finished. That there are people apparently behind the scenes pulling the strings, the marionettes that run the show. I don't know who the hell they are. I don't need to run afoul of them, so I'm done. I'm I'm checking out. And I I think this vaccine ideology and religion that has been erected, it's a species of this just demoralizing anybody that asks questions. We're going to eliminate the inquisitive mind from the public forum. Speaker 0: And it's also I agree with everything you're saying, and I think it's profound. It's not just on display during COVID. It's just like a feature of tyranny always and everywhere. It's the basis of the novel nineteen eighty four. But I think it's also worth saying that when you participate in these humiliation rituals and when you go along with it, you change. There's something about you that dies. Speaker 1: For sure. Speaker 0: You are diminished, and, you know, you hope it's not permanent, but it seems to be. But whatever, permanent or not, it's absolutely real and people who went along with Speaker 1: that are different people. Well, takes us to the big theme. So I did I did wanna quickly mention Djokovic just to give you an even more luminous illustration of this. So he gets through COVID. It's PCR confirmed. He's fine. The Australian authorities give him the green light. They say you can get on a plane and fly across the Pacific to Sydney to participate in the two thousand twenty two Australian Open. Okay. Well, you know, you've flown to Australia. I mean, it's kind of it's not exactly the most pleasant experience even if you're in first class. Speaker 0: It's very long. Speaker 1: It's it's so long and you're going through all of these time zones and your internal clock is turned on its head and I mean, it's kind of a rough voyage. It's not what Captain Cook went through, but it kinda sucks. So, just consider the psychology of this. You're a professional tennis player, you've been given the green light, because your COVID recovered, you can compete, and you had to go through a bunch of hurly burly in order to get to that point. You get on the plane, you relax, you take a deep breath, you start thinking about your game. Like, what are you gonna do when you get to Sydney? You know, who are you competing against? And this is what's running through your mind. You you then arrive in Sydney, you get off to clear passport control and customs, and your pool decides and they say, you know something? We've decided to rescind that special dispensation to you. You're gonna have Upon landing, he hears this? Landing, you're gonna have to go into quarantine. So I don't see any way of characterizing this apart from sadism. Was a sadistic action. That was turning the screws on him. And then one of these people that participates in this, I remember one of the the most revolted I I've ever felt was this BBC reporter in the most condescending, smarmy, repugnant way, then does a struggle session interview with Djokovic. Are you really going to stake your entire career? You could be the greatest ever. You could be the GOAT, Djokovic. Are you really prepared to set all of that aside just so you don't have to receive the vaccine? Speaker 0: Bow down before me and all of this will be yours. Speaker 1: It's true. Well, there you go. Alright. So you're seeing where this is headed. Yes. Speaker 0: I saw it then. Bow down before me and all of this will be yours. Right. This is totally the oldest offer there is. So, Speaker 1: you know, I grew up in the Episcopal Church. I didn't really take religion seriously. Speaker 0: Mean, it's not a serious religion, I grew up in it too, I know. Speaker 1: I started getting interested in kind of as a scholarly, you know, the Hellenic Greek in which the Bible's philosophical approach, and the deeply religious concepts were something I hadn't spent a lot of time with. This contrasted me with doctor McCullough. He's a very religious person. And we're having dinner one night at his house, and he says, John, how do you explain this? He said, I I don't think I mean, all these guys like money, everybody likes money, money's fun, whatever. But I don't think money is sufficient to explain this. Speaker 0: I agree completely. Speaker 1: There he said there must there must be something else. Speaker 0: Totally. That this is the fabled red pill, when you realize it's not really about bribery. I mean, that is heavy. Speaker 1: Well, let's put it this way. If you trickle down the pyramid, I think a lot of your infantry Speaker 0: Yeah. I know. Are they're Speaker 1: like, oh, money. You know? Speaker 0: You pay off the guards. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. Speaker 1: I could use that, you know. But you start getting to the top, you know, to the inner kind of presidium of this thing. Speaker 0: Are they bribing Bill Gates? Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: Right. Exactly. Speaker 1: So, but what is it? Like, what are we bumping up against? Exactly. And we can't quite see it, I mean, I remember Speaker 0: I've been obsessed with this for five years, all this other stuff is just these are the symptoms of something very deep. Speaker 1: It's it's true. So I am my first interview with Peter McCullough, a buddy of mine has a studio down not too far from the hospital where he was at the time Vice President of Internal Medicine. Now he was on the way out, like they were about to scoot him out. No, actually, he'd already lost his job as Vice President of Internal Medicine at Baylor University. He then got a job at what was called Hart Place, which happened to be on the Baylor campus but a different institution. He was about to lose his job at Hart Place, but at the moment he was still there as a cardiologist. And he came down to this little studio that belongs to a friend of mine and we shot this beautiful interview. The lighting, the camera, the audio, I mean it was just absolute prone. And I removed myself from the interview. It's just like this chiaroscuro lighting on on doctor McCullough, he's wearing a beautifully tailored suit, and he's just on it. I mean, every question cites all of the peer reviewed literature, you know, totally circumspecting everything, every remark, every no speculation, just the facts supported by the evidence cited. I put it on my YouTube channel and the studio the guy that ran the studio, he had some friends in the independent media that helped to kind of get this thing going. I mean, he he distributed the tape to the guys at The Blaze, the guys at I I can't remember. A bunch of independent media podcasters and networks and stuff. So this thing starts to go viral. And I'm thinking, well, this is great. I mean, he spoke very cautiously and he spoke very well. And about four hours later, YouTube takes it down with no explanation. So I called Doctor. McCullough and I said, we've just bumped into something that is really big and it's really dark. It's like a black hole, like you know how you see a black hole in space? It's actually light is bending into it. You can't see it through an optical telescope, but what you can see is that the gravitation of the black hole is so strong that it's actually warping time space so that light is bending into it. I said it's like we've just bumped into a black hole. We can't see it, but we know it's there. What the hell is it? And so this is actually what began the discussion. And ultimately, I don't see any other conclusion that's plausible, and I'm not saying this is the conclusion, I try and stay within the realm of physics and and empirical observation. So I'll ask you, how else could you explain it other than what you just said a moment ago? This appears to be Speaker 0: No. You go from physics to metaphysics the more you think about it. Speaker 1: That's it. So that's that's Speaker 0: what I Speaker 1: told Peter. I said, I think we're going to have to leave the realm of physics and enter the realm of metaphysics even though it's something I I'm not comfortable doing. Speaker 0: Exactly how I I think if you grew up Episcopalian, like, the one thing you don't wanna talk about is, you know, the supernatural. You just don't. It's true. It's deemphasized. It's embarrassing. There's a kind of social stigma to it, you're handling snakes in your trailer park, I mean, there's just a whole suite of disincentives to even think about stuff like that. It's kind of interesting, but I I feel I feel you on this. Yes. Speaker 1: Well, I grew up in the Bible Belt. I grew up in Dallas, Texas. And this was the era in the eighties of a guy named Robert Tilden. He was this completely bizarre charlatan who would speak in tongues and and it would always end every episode by saying, the way, if you send me a check and close a prayer with it, I'll see to it that your prayer is answered. Now, the bigger the check, you know, I'm not saying that, you know, my intercession is necessarily gonna be affected by the sum, but, you know, it might well be. So this is the era in in which in which I just complete Speaker 0: True corruption. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Just total charlatans, false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing, guys who themselves weren't in control of their, you know, personal lives, kinda masking all of this, hiding it from themselves with, this embrace of religiosity. So and I remember my mother who grew up in the Episcopal Church just saying, this is just the way these guys wear their religion on their sleeves, it's it's it's just so unseemly. And so, this this is what I grew up in. Speaker 0: I I I know precisely what you're talking about. Yeah. So Not our kind of people. Speaker 1: No. I thought, alright, you know, kind of kicking and screaming, well, let's enter the realm of metaphysics. So what I did was, when I was in graduate school, just because he was canonical, I I read the novels of of Dostoevsky. Yes. So I was like, I'm gonna have to go back Speaker 0: You read the Grand Inquisitor in the middle of the Brothers Speaker 1: K Alright. Alright. So there it is. Speaker 0: Yeah. You read that, and you're like, first of all, this is a truly deep culture. This is not a gas station with nuclear weapons. No. I mean, this is like, wow. Speaker 1: No. And remember, remember, he himself had done ten years a hard time. He faced a false execution. Right. Yeah. Right. I remember reviewing that and thinking, God, that's hard. It's like eight months of solitary, then talk about sadism, like talk about Djokovic is, you know, flying first class to Sydney, and then he arrives and it's like, okay, we have something in store for you. It's like you're gonna face death, and then it's called off at the last second. This is just terror. Speaker 0: Oh, after, you know, marching you all the way from Siberia to Moscow takes like two months, and then you get there, like, gonna execute you and then, oh, just kidding. Yeah. No. It's heavy. Speaker 1: And then and then, you know, the you know, we were talking earlier like the the just the misery of being separated from from women for months on and he's then sent to six years of military service in some provincial town inside. It's like we're just not going to end the punishment for attending some liberal, you know, know, group of guys talking about the latest ideas out of Germany. Like, we are going to make you really suffer for this. So it's not that it's not that Dostoevsky hadn't experienced this on his person, Speaker 0: like He had. Speaker 1: He knows what he's talking Okay. So the Grand Inquisitor. So for those of your audience that are on on this is what I was gonna talk, you're you're a step ahead of me. So, Eloysha, the youngest boy of the brothers Karamazov This Speaker 0: is a scene within the novel. Speaker 1: Right. Right. So he's talking with his brother Ivan, who is the sort of rational imperialist empiricist who is reading all these ideas out of France and Germany. I mean, I think it's probably around the year 1860. Exactly. So Ivan says, I have a story for you, and I think it's kinda charming, think it's kind of original, it has a certain flair and it's almost in a playful way. He says, so second coming of Christ, he drops down into Seville, Spain in the midst of the Inquisition, the dark days of the Inquisition. He's walking down the street around the old Seville Cathedral. He's sort of blessing people and groups are gathering around him and, oh my goodness, you know, he's returned in Sevilla, Spain during the Inquisition of all places. Suddenly the Grand Inquisitor himself is drawn out of his office, goes down to the square in front of the cathedral and says, Arrest that man. Arrest him? Arrest him. He's an impostor. So this is where it has such literary power. So the inquisitor puts Jesus in jail, and he comes into the cell, and he looks at him and he says, is it really you? And Jesus sort of looks at him, and I think he just simply answers yes or or nods. He says it really is you. This is this is just remarkable. He says, but I always kinda thought this might happen and so I have a message for you. I cannot allow you to come walking around on Earth, like talking to people. He said it's it's not it's not something that we, the church, or the the rulers of the church can allow. And he says, and I'm gonna be fair and I'm gonna tell you why. He says, do you remember back when you were presented with these temptations by the opposer? Speaker 0: Do you remember? Yeah. Speaker 1: He says, you see, what he offered to you was the ability to assume responsibility for all of these people to make rocks into bread and water into wine and all you had to do was just make the deal and you could have then assumed all worldly power in order to just take care of these fools. These humans with all of their flaws and their ignorance and their limitations, you could have just taken care of them, but instead you chose to ask of them to maintain their responsibility and their free will. This was an absurd decision that you made. Humanity humanity is not capable of assuming this burden. You asked too much. So what we are going to do is we are going to do the deal that you should have taken. We're going to take care of them. We're going to make sure that they're provided for, and in return, they shall give us their obedience because it's obedience that we need in order to run this ship properly. So that's why I'm arresting you, and that's why you're not going to see the light of day under my watch. So it's a great scene. What do you have to say to that? So in the scene, The Grand Inquisitor, Jesus stands up. He walks up to the Inquisitor, and he kisses him. And it's like, it's such a cool scene because this is an old, vain, cynical guy. He's he's just so accustomed to everything going his way. He doesn't believe in anything anymore. But that kind of melts his heart a little bit. And so he leaves he then the the inquisitor then leaves the cell and leaves it open. So anyway, Ivan says, you know, what do you think of my little story? And Eloysia then says, it's kind of interesting. Let me think about it for a moment. I'm happy to see you, brother. I think I have to go. And then Eloysha gives Ivan a kiss. And Ivan says, that's plagiarism. Anyway, I I love the scene, but but why am I getting kind of a model in telling this? There's a reason. I think this is a very plausible explanation. Those who rule this world, there seems to be a perception there are certain things that are nonnegotiable that we just won't accept any resistance. And one of those nonnegotiable things is apparently vaccines. Everybody has to get them. No one can question them. He who questions them will be relentlessly persecuted like a heretic. Speaker 0: Is there you've made the case for that. I believe every word that you have said, I think, the last five years stands as testimony to the truth of what you said. But we still are alighting the quest the core question, which is, is there something about vaccines that makes them, you know, really important, the most important thing to the people who run the world? What because it is the world. It's not it's the world. It's the whole Right. So what and whatever this thing is about vaccines has been noted for close to a hundred years. I mean, Rivera painted that mural, and what's interesting about it is a funny picture. I agree. And Diego Rivera had very little talent. Speaker 1: By the way, I think the Christ child is a self portrait. Speaker 0: I'm I'm sure that it is, and he's a ludicrous figure and, you know, got more claim than he deserves, but he was, if nothing else, sort of an indicator of what the people in charge thought. He was their sort of pet muralist. Right? So they understood then, ninety years ago, that vaccines were at the center of some like, what is it about vaccines? Is it the piercing of the skin, the the the blood? I mean, is it a is it a ritual? I mean, clearly it is, but is there something inherent about the vaccines? Speaker 1: I think that the entire edifice of our everything that pertains to public health policy, which includes the ability to invoke a public health emergency Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: To quarantine people, to put them under house arrest, in effect under house arrest. I mean, I remember I went to this march in in Washington DC in January 2020 opposing the vaccine mandates, and I wasn't allowed to enter a restaurant in DC. I couldn't stay in a hotel in DC. I had to stay in Virginia. So it's a way I think this is just one way of looking at it. If you refuse to get injected, I mean, it's kind of the ultimate people could say, well, if you come to work, you have to wear a uniform or I mean, there are these different sort of restrictions on personal freedom and personal space that we sort of accept as just sort of part of a reasonable set of expectations to participate in institutional life. But getting injected and you don't know what's in the injection, you don't really know anything about it. I mean, when you go to get your vaccine or your child vaccinated, the package insert isn't presented to you. There is no informed consent. I mean, it's just the pediatrician says you gotta get this for your kid to attend school, so here we go. You've you've, you know, free will contemplation of the reality of the it's just not even in it. You just agree. So I think it's the ultimate form of obedience. I mean, what what could be I mean, consider that if there's a vaccine mandate, can lock you up. We can we can shuffle you off to some shitty hotel in in Sydney for two weeks. We could prevent you from playing in the tournament. So it's the ultimate the ultimate method of control. Speaker 0: So it's not I get so you're answering the question, I think, by saying it it almost doesn't matter what's in the vaccines or not. It's not inherent to the to the chemical formulation of the product. It's not that mRNA technology, whatever its effects are, that wasn't necessarily the point. It was the ritual of forcing people to do something against their will without their consent. And once you've done that, you are in control. It is a it's a Speaker 1: rape, basically. Or or a kind of inverted communion. You have to take the communion or you can't be a part of this congregation. Speaker 0: Well, in communion itself, I'll say this as a believing Christian, is not I mean, right? So we Jesus said this is my body and blood shed for you for the ills of sins. Take this in the remembrance of me. But the human mind cannot understand what that means, but we accept it. Speaker 1: We accept it. Speaker 0: Right. And I think the Catholics call that a holy mystery maybe or something to that effect, meaning that it the fact that you don't understand it is part of the point, or acknowledging that you can't understand it is part of the point and that therein lies its power, right? Speaker 1: It has immense symbolic power and I I think that you participate in communion and there is a mystery, you know, there's debates and theological sort of, is it transubstantiation or just symbolic? The thing about a vaccine is, it's injected into your deltoid muscle and you don't know what it is. Now what was particularly so it's it's the ultimate in terms of your your physical body, never mind the symbolic value of this, its meaning. And I think meaning is perhaps the the ultimate thing that we're seeking in this life. But this is a direct injection into your physical body and or that of a very small developing child. So what was really spooky about the COVID nineteen vaccine, and and remember, there were different iterations of this. There were attenuated, vaccines. There were inactivated vaccines such to say SARS CoV two cultured and then attenuated or inactivated. But but the what these guys really, really were interested in was this gene, this genetic product, messenger RNA. And I think this is really important. And we go into this in our book. Messenger RNA, the actual molecule was discovered in the sixties in France. And there's something very important about this that I think goes to the absolute heart of scientists, the long standing dream. It's the myth of of Prometheus or or or Lucifer. And I actually think that Lucifer should be viewed in some ways as a kind of he he's a close stepbrother of Prometheus in in some interpretation. He's a bringer of light. You know, if it weren't for Lucifer, you'd have this dumbass guy and girl sitting around eating mangoes or something and they'd they'd never awaken to the reality of the world. They would they would just be stuck kind of I mean, sounds kinda nice, just kind of perpetually in love walking around the garden. But the idea of Lucifer is, no, you have a brain, use it, explore, discover, you know, learn about your limitations. Maybe you can even transcend your limit your limitations. So I think that's the idea of Lucifer the bringer of light. Now I'm I'm not saying that Lucifer is a great guy. I'm I'm saying this is, I think, part of this scientific archetype to transcend the limitations of our mortality. So now you ask, what about these guys in Silicon Valley? The masters of the universe now. I mean, the electronic world that we wouldn't wouldn't be having this conversation if it weren't for the great lords of technology in Palo Alto or Menlo Park or whatever. So I think that a lot of those guys, you might say, and I don't say this to criticize them, I I just think it's a description, you might say that they're suffering from Luciferian pride. It's pride that, you know, I have discovered the way the universe works. You know, I can I can take electrons and create a picture and send the pic it's almost like magic? And I actually know a professional electrician, And you can ask him about electricity. And and, you know, I'll ask him a complex question, and he'll say, well, I would characterize that is that's a FM frequency. I was like, what do you mean FM? Like, frequent frequency modulation? He says, no. That's what we call an electricity fucking magic. I mean, there are certain things about our use of electricity that it is just it's just remarkable. So And Speaker 0: it but it's opaque even to the people who know the most about it. So this was actually and I went and looked this up because I'm very interested in electricity and what exactly it is. And there was a huge debate in The United States at the time of electrification. Not the TVA electrification, but but but nineteenth century. You know, Edison popularizes the light bulb, all of a sudden, it's amazing. No more oil lamps. We can stop killing the sperm whales, all this stuff, it's like great. But there were people in The United States, sane people, and a lot of them are Christian clergy, who were asking questions, and you can look it up, like, what is this exactly? And of course, none of them ever got a straightforward answer, and to this day, no one can really answer that question, what is this exactly? Because no one really knows exactly what it is. I'm not attacking electricity, I'm just noting, And I just find it so interesting that you can, like, base your whole civilization on this thing, but nobody, even like a master electrician, can explain every part of it. Right? There's So who's in charge? The reason that's interesting is because if you don't fully understand something, are you really its master? Speaker 1: Right. Right. Right? Right. Right. So but this idea yes. We don't and and I think so I'm gonna come back to messenger RNA, but but what I wanna say about the great lords of tech is I recently had the great privilege of meeting one personally, and I really liked him. He he was a brilliant man, a stunning intellect. And I've long admired him, it was a confidential meeting, but I've I've I have long admired him, I've read his biography. I think he's a miraculous guy, I mean, in terms of intellect. Speaker 0: I suspect I know him, yep. Speaker 1: But what struck me during our conversation in which he couldn't be couldn't have been more gracious and polite was and this is my subjective perception, Speaker 0: and I Speaker 1: I was with doctor McCullough in the meeting. There's nothing we could possibly tell this man that he doesn't already know. He already knows everything. It it it doesn't matter how much doctor McCullough has studied and observed and has worked sixteen hour days examining all this, this very distinguished, very impressive man, He already knows it. Speaker 0: Okay. Now I know who you're talking about. Because there's only one person I know like Speaker 1: this. Yes. He already knows everything. And one of the things he knows is that vaccines are safe and effective. Yeah. So, again, we're back to these axiomatic things. It's just Speaker 0: And you believed that he sincerely believed that? Speaker 1: I think he did. I mean, I I think he has some interests in believing that. I mean, it's not just it's probably not just intellectual intrigue that has caused him to believe this. Speaker 0: Can I say one thing about that? It's it's not it's it's too simple to say that when people have conflicts like the one you're describing, if in fact that's a real conflict, it's too simple to say it's only about the money. There is a phenomenon that I have lived personally over decades where if you're too close to something and you're benefiting from it and you like it, not it's not just about money, if you like it, if you like the world you live in, which I did, it's very hard, maybe impossible to see its real character. Speaker 1: It's true. You're you're you're in it. You're swimming in it. Speaker 0: And you know everyone in it and you like them. Yeah. And it's not just like they're paying you to say nice things about them as you like these people. They can't be part of something. Whatever they're part of, you can't fully see it. You Speaker 1: That's all I'm can't and, you know, something that has been a matter of great controversy and strife and anger and high emotion, that has come up in public discourse recently is the ancient anthropological constant of tribalism. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 1: Tribalism. And if you're not a tribalist, if if you don't see the world in terms of tribe, then and I beg your pardon for being academic again, but I I think Wittgenstein, the great linguistic philosopher, would have said, you don't understand the conversation. In other words, tribalists, guys who hate each other and are involved in reprisals and this kind of zero sum, you know, race to the bottom. Albanian mountain feuds. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Serbs versus Croatians. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I I was went sailing down on the Dalmatian Coast, pulled into a gas station just north of Dubrovnik to get some gas for my car, and I walked into this gas station and the whole gas station was like a shrine to the villainy of the Serbs. There's a Croatian guy just north of Dubrovnik, Croatia. Speaker 0: Slow but on Milosevic posters Speaker 1: or something? Just well, okay. To be fair, some lunatic Serbian artillery guy had actually direct hit on his gas station. So, okay. Alright. I I get it, you know, back during the the the Yeah. The Yugoslav war. And why these jerks decide to shell Dubrovnik? It's like, what do you got? Clearly, these guys had just completely lost their minds. Why are you shelling Dubrovnik? Why did you okay. A gas station. Okay. Alright. So just blow the shit out of that gas station. Yeah. So, you know, here we are like sixteen no. Twenty six years later, and the whole gas station is a shrine to Serbian villainy. So can you imagine every day walking in to your place of work and there is everywhere on the wall a reminder of the injustice that you suffered twenty six years ago at the hands of the Serbs. So I could I just this was fascinating. I said, I gotta talk to this dude. So he he spoke broken German, some of the Croatians from the old Austro Hungarian Empire, they can still speak a bit of German. And I said, why do you believe that they shelled Dubrovnik? Like that doesn't really make sense. Like what is the strategic value of shelling Dubrovnik? It's just like a World Heritage Site, you know? Speaker 0: It's Right. Speaker 1: He says he looks at me. He says, what reason? He says, there is no reason in these monsters. They're insane. They're deranged. They're demonic. There's no reason in in and he's furious. It's like, it's just can you imagine? I can Speaker 0: picture the scene. Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's hard for me, somebody who's I don't have a tribal allegiance. I mean, you could say, well, you know, I have a kind of sentimental affection for my English ancestors. Right. You know, I think I related to Sir John Leek was I think he was Queen Anne's admiral during the War of Spanish Secession. So there's a book about Sir John and, you know, I've read the book and it's like, well, he sounds like a cool guy, but the trials and travails of of his struggle in the War of Spanish Succession, I mean, it's like, who cares? Yeah. So I can't get into the internal logic of this conversation about, you know, this tribe did this and and then then that, and then we're back and forth, and who killed more than the other guy? Speaker 0: Would you say it's true that people without a tribal identity are at grave disadvantage against those with a powerful tribal identity because they don't they don't understand what they're what they're looking at at all? Speaker 1: You don't understand what you're looking at. I don't understand Speaker 0: what I totally agree. I have exactly the same views. Maybe it's the Episcopal Church who taught us this or something, but yes. Speaker 1: Well, I remember during before my grandfather died, he fought in Italy, he, you know, slept on the ground for two years, and and he slung it out with with with Jerry in in Italy. I mean, like, combat. And and my my great uncle, Bobby Weitzel, was killed in Italy and it was very traumatic to my to my great grandmother. But the thing that so and my great grandmother, by the way, her family was originally from Germany, so there was this kind of, you know, confusion about that. And I remember talking to my, grandfather and he said, one of the most disturbing things I remember, he said, we we there's a machine gun nest and we kind of were able to maneuver and get close and somebody tossed a grenade into it. And the grenade went off and then the guns fell silent. And he said, so then we entered the machine gun nest and the soldier manning it was just a boy. He didn't even have a beard. He was like a 14 year old. And he said the Germans were moving all of their manpower to the Eastern Front Speaker 0: Always. Yep. Speaker 1: To to to fight the Russians. And so they had just pulled back these positions in Northern Italy, North of Florence, and they're very clever. He said they kinda set these things up where just a little kid could operate it. He said they had these fascinating little little maps, and then you could actually with a lever, you could identify with binoculars where are the Americans, and then you could move a corresponding lever to put the gun to sight the gun. He said, it's very ingenious. He said, but I remember thinking, this is just friggin' awful. Awful. Like, it's like a little kid. So and this was my Speaker 0: Only The United States would do that, though. I think, and this might be wrong, but it's correct ish. I think in nineteen forty one, December when the war started, the largest ethnic group in The United States was German. Yeah. I think that was the if you ask people, wait, what's your ancestry? I think German was number one. Maybe number two after English, but I it was right up there. And the whole country so what other country which is fine. I'm very anti Hitler. Okay? But where else in history could you say to a population, go fight your distant relatives in the land of your ancestors and have them go do it? Only in a country where tribal identity had been discouraged to the point where it disappeared. Speaker 1: Completely. Completely. Speaker 0: And and by the way, that also happened in the first World War Right. Where millions of Americans of German ancestry changed their last names, called themselves Dutch, the Pennsylvania Dutch are obviously German, but they were so ashamed of their own tribe that they pretended they weren't part of that tribe, and I'm not criticizing it. I'm just saying I don't think that's ever happened in history. No. Speaker 1: No. The the American adventure or project has been unbelievably successful Yes. Until until, I don't know, 2,000? Yep. So why do I mention, war and tribalism and all of this? If you're in the vaccine ideology and you've completely 100% been indoctrinated in it. It's like there's I can't talk to you. It's it's like you're in another tribe. And I think that is perhaps the point of the whole thing. Let's divide, let's stamp out vaccine hesitancy, and then those who take the communion, who receive the boy who receives, those who receive it will then be permanently separate from those who are hesitant and refuse. So it's like you've just created a tribal identity. And he who hesitates, he who refuses, well, if he's in Washington DC, the nation's capital, he can't stay in a hotel. He can't have a steak dinner with senator Johnson near Capitol Hill because he's not vaccinated. So I think that's that's what this is about, but I wanna get we we might be running short on time, but I I do wanna talk about messenger RNA. So this Promethean or Luciferian intellect and the pride that is taken in that, there's no grander expression of this than messenger RNA. So the original idea was, well, if if if you think about messenger RNA, there there are there's a trinity of the way proteins, the building blocks of life, or proteins. Okay. So there's replication, which is a DNA strand replicates itself. There's transcription, which is the DNA using RNA, which is one half DNA strand to send information outside of the cell nucleus into the external part of the cell, the sort of watery part of the cell, RNA then instructs, that's called transcription, and then translation, that RNA instruction then tells the cell what to do. And, I mean, it's like you're talking about electricity. I mean, if you start studying molecular biology, you think, oh my god, like, this is this is so fascinating. It's so interesting. Like, in Francis Collins, who's the head of the NIH when COVID came, he wrote a book in 2006. Do you remember this book, Speaker 0: Francis No. I was not even aware he existed until COVID. I mean, all of this went way under my radar. Speaker 1: So Francis Collins wrote a book called The Language of God, and what he claimed was, with the Human Genome Project, with all the advances that had been made in understanding molecular biology, DNA, RNA, messenger RNA, that scientists were reading the code in which God had created life. So you're probably wondering why I mentioned the Silicon Valley guys. So code. You code things. You you enter a code, you transmit the code, and then and then that initiates an operation, an instruction to do something. And we're headed this way in a big way with artificial intelligence. But the idea is it's like God is a divine coder, and using nucleic acid, he coded up there in the celestial don't know, the celestial laboratory, he coded life. And now the human intellect has reached a point where we can read the code. Okay. So that's interesting. Okay. So I read the book, God's Language. That's cool. I mean, maybe we're reading God's language. I think Einstein said I want to know God's thoughts. Okay. So far so good. But what these mRNA vaccine guys did, they went one step further. We're not only going to read the language of God, we're going to start writing in the language of God using messenger RNA. We will now use pseudo urinated messenger RNA to instruct the body to produce the proteins, the building blocks of life that we want it to produce. Speaker 0: What could go wrong? Speaker 1: What could go wrong? Speaker 0: I think now it's just good to interject in one sentence and remind everyone that Adam and Eve were not expelled from the Garden for ignorance. Right. Well. Just the opposite. Speaker 1: So, but now, okay, I'm glad that you raised this, because now we come to a point that I think lies at the heart of the human condition. How do we recognize so we are curious. I mean, when I was a boy, my mother said, you know, your problem is you're so curious. Like you just like, if somebody tells you you can't look at something, the first thing you do is look at it. Somebody tells you don't go onto that piece of property, well then, you know, next minute you're climbing over the gate. I mean, it's like, what is it about telling us you you can't look into that? Speaker 0: Yeah. Just one piece of fruit you can't have. That's it. Otherwise, you're set. It's like it's perfect, but you just can't have this one thing. Speaker 1: But consider the contradiction of of that, because to go back to The Grand Inquisitor by Ivan Karamazov, it's a paradox because in a way what The Grand Inquisitor is suggesting is just give us all of your free will Yeah. And we'll we'll take care of you. It's like we're going back to the prelapsarian state where you're just taken care of. You don't have to ask any questions. You don't have to try and figure anything out. You're just told the way the world is and you accept and you obey. So this is the tension in in in being human. And the messenger RNA stuff where the whole thing becomes so fantastically absurd, And this is another really important point that we try to convey in our book. There's so much these guys don't know. So they get these little glimmers of insight. It's like, Toledo. Can you believe can you believe what we just observed? Where it becomes very childish and very intellectually challenged is the next thought, oh, now we've figured it all out. Now we can assume the helm. Yes. Speaker 0: That's right. Speaker 1: So why do you just on the face of it, that's preposterous, like, you just figured something out. You just got a glimpse of something. You need to recognize what that's telling you is how much you don't know. You don't know. There's so many things you don't know. Speaker 0: But the irony is that the scientific process, science, is designed as a counterbalance to those very human instincts. I know something, therefore I'm an expert, that's called hubris, and the process itself is, again, designed to rein that in, to show you how much you don't know. That's the whole thing. So how did that not work? Speaker 1: My favorite medical historian is Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr, a very very interesting guy and he once made an observation which I thought, God, if you could just frame that, put it on the wall of every library, excuse me, of every laboratory. He said, Science is the topography of ignorance. Exactly. From a few elevated points, we triangulate vast spaces of unknowns. So that is a person who's actually using his head. He's actually thinking. He's not just saying, oh, look how smart we are. Look at all of this brilliant stuff that we just discovered. Now let's start making a thousand assumptions that are totally unwarranted. Speaker 0: I'm gonna ask you one last specific question about messenger RNA. So I I think as you said a number of times, we don't really know its effects and we don't know certainly where it's going long term. But the one thing that strikes me we should be very concerned about is the possibility that it changes people in a way that they pass on to their children, that it changes their genetic code because that's, of course, destroying humanity as we know it. Is there any indication that that is happening or could happen? Speaker 1: Yes. There are a few things that I would say to that. The first highly alarming thing is there is evidence that it actually impairs fertility. So that's perhaps a paradox. It's actually preventing you from passing anything on to your kids because you're not having them. So that's one thing. The second Speaker 0: And there is there's real evidence of that. Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. So how in the world is it still legal in The United States to inject people with that? Well, fertility is just the start of it. How how about Speaker 0: That's all I need to know. That's all I need to know and that that's almost enough to make you think, you know, we have to kind of we have to we just stop this now. Speaker 1: For sure. Well, Peter McCullough has been proclaiming this for a while. Speaker 0: No. But for real. We can't have that. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I'm trying get my emotions under control. But, yeah, that's really Speaker 1: I'll I'll tell you something else when you talk about young people. So fertility. In July 2021, the New England Journal of Medicine, to their credit, published a peer reviewed case study of a young man, an adolescent boy, who developed myocarditis, inflammation of the heart. Now consider the symbolism of this. A young fit boy develops myocarditis, inflammation of the heart, shortly after receiving a messenger RNA COVID shot. I actually had dinner with doctor McCullough that night. He was very alarmed by this. He said, you know, I mean, I've been practicing cardiology for thirty years. I very, very rarely see myocarditis. And this preposterous assertion that, well, it's just a little bit of heart damage. He said this is ridiculous. You need your heart to keep beating every second or millisecond for the rest of your days. That poor muscle, it can't you can't afford to damage it. Speaker 0: There's no minor damage to Speaker 1: your heart. Speaker 0: Right? No. Speaker 1: So, he said this is really a disaster. And so, what is the the reasonable thing to automatically recognize in the '21? It's very simple. We already know we're over a year into this that young athletes are not at risk of severe COVID illness. It just they're just not. It's it has zero statistical significance as a purported threat to the health of young athletes. And one might I might add, you know, young athletes are kind of the hope. I mean, they're they're sort of not that they're athletes, but that they're young and strong and have full possession of their abilities and faculties, like, those are the young fellows that are gonna perpetuate our civilization. Speaker 0: That's our country, right? Speaker 1: That's our country, precisely. So why would you do anything? Why would you take any unnecessary risk that could damage young people? It's it okay. You could say in a nursing home, our risk benefit analysis is that, you know, take the risk with the vaccine because these people are very frail if they get. We could argue that. Maybe we should have a just to say all the young boys and little girls should get this shot even though they're not at risk of COVID nineteen. Speaker 0: It's the opposite. It's the most unnatural thing ever because the progression of nature is is really simple. You go through phases in life, and at a certain point, that's all you care about. I'm only 56. I already don't care about me at all, and I mean that. Not because I'm so selfless, I'm not selfless, but because that's just it's just natural. At a certain point, you pivot from worrying about you to worrying about your children and your grandchildren, what comes after you. That's I mean, that's the life cycle. Animals are this way. This is the most natural thing ever, and when that's subverted, then you know it's from hell. Speaker 1: It's true. So it gets it gets dark. Speaker 0: Doctor It gets darker? I don't know if I can handle that. Speaker 1: I mean, it it that's dark, but it's about to get darker. So the editor of the New England Journal of Medicine who's also an adjunct professor at the Harvard Medical School. So in terms of institutional prestige, it doesn't get any more prestigious. I mean, you're talking about number one public medical professional probably on earth. Professor at Harvard, editor in chief of the New England Journal of Medicine. I mean, that's like the Pope. His name is Doctor. Eric Rubin, and he was also an advisor on the FDA deliberative committee to decide whether we should approve the messenger RNA COVID-nineteen vaccine for young people. I think the original decision is people under the age of 18. We have the transcript of the deliberative committee meeting. The question is, should we should the FDA and I'm the in effect, he's the most prestigious adviser in the room, should it be approved for young people? So this is his reasoning. And I just quote the the transcript. Okay. So the question is, do we approve this for young people? He says two things. First of all, the risk benefit analysis is different from what it is for older people. And he doesn't need to spell this out, everybody understands is older people seem to be at greater risk of getting into trouble with the illness itself. So, yeah, we have a different risk benefit profile when it comes to young people. That's a euphemism. I mean, there's a big difference in the risk benefit profile. Young people aren't at risk of this at all. And we have something else. We have a signal. He said, I'm not sure if it's 100% real, but I think that it is. He's referring to myocarditis in young people. So the signal I believe is real. So you have a bad safety signal and then you have in terms of the the risk of the illness for young people, it's nil. So he said, so it's a tough decision. But I think in the final analysis, we won't really know until we just start giving it. Speaker 0: Ruben said that. Mhmm. Speaker 1: Those are his exact words. Speaker 0: So how was he punished for that? Speaker 1: That's the orthodoxy. He's Speaker 0: So not punished? Speaker 1: No. No. I mean, it's like Speaker 0: How could you show your face after saying something like that? I don't know. Don't It's like someone atop, you know, the public health infrastructure in America. How could you Speaker 1: And so So there was no Speaker 0: shame, professional shame attached to him for that? Well He wasn't sanctioned by anybody or fired. Speaker 1: To be clear, there's still the the the FDA and the CDC technically acknowledge that a adverse side effect of the COVID nineteen vaccine is myocarditis, particularly in adolescent males. Okay. So but that is so qualified with the assertion, but it's so rare that we needn't really concern ourselves with it. It's a very low risk outcome. So that is the assertion in order to prevent there from being any repercussion. Now, senator Ron Johnson held here a senate hearing in May. I actually attended with doctor McCullough. And the question was, has myocarditis been deliberately obscured? The risk, has it been covered up by the US government? The same agencies who approved it for young people? And the answer is yes. And I think that this is very, very important. There isn't going to be a public acknowledgment from the same group of guys that they've made catastrophic errors in all of this. That will never be admitted, it will never be acknowledged. It won't. Speaker 0: Well, then you have at that point no moral authority, no credibility, and you can't continue in the same way that you did before. Like, normal people will say, I'm not listening to a word you say, I'm not going to the doctor, that's where I am personally, but it's not just me. It's it's like any person who thinks about this. It's like, how could I ever believe you again? Speaker 1: Do you remember what I was saying earlier about a large percentage swath of the American people no longer believe anything their government agencies tell them, it's the same. And mRNA vaccines are still being given to young people Mhmm. Right now. Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. So yeah. I don't wanna marinate in rage because it's not good for me, and I don't think it doesn't elevate the conversation. But let me just just circle back to the original question, just to make sure we settle it. Do you think there's evidence that the changes to people to their genetic structure wrought by these vaccines could be passed on to their children? Speaker 1: The McCullough Foundation, of which I am the vice president, we just published I should say, we posted we we did an exposition of a paper that was recently published in which a patient it's a published paper, it's a published case study. It's not a question of speculation, it's been published. Now, molecular biologists, I'm sure, could debate about this, but the finding is a person who had cancer of the bladder, which is a very severe cancer, in that tumor, so in the bladder cells that had become dysplastic, that the when cancer begins to develop, remember I was telling you about the coding, you get coding errors and it starts forming these malignant cells which are chaotic and that don't work, but they keep replicating. That's the problem with cancer. It's like this dysfunctional thing that just keeps replicating. It's kind of a horror show. Now I don't pretend to be an oncologist, but the finding is, is that messenger RNA was found in the cancerous cells of this tumor. So it seems to be integrating. Now the question is, is it integrating in a way that is can be passed on to the offspring, or is it so dysfunctional that it's killing the host before it can be passed on? And and I don't know that we yet know that, but remember, the science is the topography of ignorance. I mean, there's a lot about this that is is very, very concerning. There's also a study that this messenger RNA seems to have transcribed into liver cells. So, you know, to really get to the bottom of this, you would have to have molecular biologists who aren't entranced by this, it would have to really be willing to seriously evaluate it without presuppositions, and I just don't know that we're there. That's the problem where we are. It's it's if you receive the vaccine, if you approved it, if you if you told your patients they need to get it, are you really going to be an unless you have a kind of damascene moment where you're like, okay, I totally screwed all of this up. Like, 100%, I'm an idiot. All of my assumptions were wrong. But there aren't very many people With with decency or integrity Speaker 0: in medicine? Apparently not. Apparently, there aren't. Speaker 1: I don't think so. Speaker 0: I don't think these are complex concepts at all. They're very human concepts. There's nobody who hasn't screwed it up and learned that his preconceptions were wrong, and he's given terrible advice or hurt people unwittingly. There's not one person who's, you know, past 14 years old who hasn't had that experience, and it is incumbent on us, it's obligation to admit that. And, like, if people with the power of life and death, physicians can't admit that, then we we need to eliminate the profession. You can't have that. That's the one thing you can't have. Dishonesty, lack of concern for other people, like, not acceptable. Where's the AMA? Speaker 1: So get a load of this story. Why did I become interested in this whole this whole story of of medicine and doctrine, medicine and and false orthodoxy. This goes back to when I lived in Vienna. I lived in Vienna for many years as a true crime author. I I became interested in in Speaker 0: Sorry. Your life story, which we haven't gotten into, but I would encourage people to look it up. So you you start as a German speaking philosopher, and you wind up as a true crime author. Just I just love the course of people's lives. It's so amazing. Speaker 1: Well, I mean, talk about money. I mean I mean, one, and and that the power of money to to direct people's attention. So I I think I would have liked to have been a philosopher. Two things happened. I didn't like hanging around with academics and b, I mean, I don't mind not being rich, but I didn't like being poor. Speaker 0: Oh, I hosted Fox and Friends weekend for four years, so I know what it means to have to make certain compromises to pay the bills. So I Speaker 1: get it. So so I got interested in forensic medicine, and I got to be pals with the pathologist, the forensic doctor at the Vienna Institute of Forensic Medicine. And she wanted to get some of her papers published in English, and she said, you know, I can I know the basic medical terms, but I don't know how to write in in in a good, nice, flowing style? This was before all these translate things. So, you know, I'll do my basic translation. I'll make sure the medical terminology is correct, but could you put this into a paper that somebody might wanna actually read? So I did a few translations for her, and I I got to be pals with her, and I got to where I was hanging out at the Vienna Institute of Forensic Medicine, you know, once every couple of months when I was researching my first book. And I became so fascinated. I even thought about writing a screenplay about this. So there was a professor of anatomy at the University of Vienna Medical School in the eighteen forties, and I'm I'm sorry that his his his name is suddenly slipping me, but he was an anatomy professor And every day he took his students to the the the Institute of Forensic Medicine for anatomy class. They would do anatomical studies of cadavers. And then from the anatomy class, the students would then go to the obstetrics department of the University of Vienna Medical School. And there, the head of obstetrics was a guy named professor Ignaz Semmelweis. Okay. So the year is 1848. Speaker 0: A pivotal year on the continent. Speaker 1: Right, right. So think about a revolution, it's interesting. So was it '48? It might have been '46. Anyway, 1846, '47, or '48, some of eyes is pals with the professor of anatomy. The professor of anatomy is doing a demonstration, is using a scalpel on a cadaver, and then accidentally cuts himself. That injury, that wound then becomes horribly infected and he dies. He gets sepsis and he dies. Some of I start thinking, that's interesting because his the the disease progression with the professor, it reminds me of what these girls in the maternity ward are suffering. It's called childbed fever. Exactly. Could it be might there be a connection? Now remember, this is before the germ theory of medicine. I think an Italian had proposed it, but it hadn't caught on. So Semmelweis says, could it be that the corruption that is transferred from the cadaver to my friend with the scalpel that the students, they're coming directly here from anatomy, could it be they're transferring the same corruption from the body to the genital tracts of my girls in the maternity ward? Could it be that if I have them wash their hands with chlorinated lime, it's what gravediggers or undertakers use to cut putrefaction, What'll happen? So he tells the kids, wash your hands with chlorinated lime before you examine the girls in my maternity ward. So let's test your powers of deductive reasoning. What happened to the incidence of child bed fever in the maternity ward when they started washing their hands? It fell. It fell. It fell almost to zero from twenty percent to damn well close to zero. So Semmelweis says, well, that's it. I mean, let's just have the kids wash their hands. So he publishes his study. He does an analysis of two different maternity wards. He does a nice comparative case series study. What do you think the immanence is of Europe, the medical universities, Vienna, Paris, Stockholm, what did they say? How did they greet Semmelweis's seminal study? Speaker 0: With cheering and tears of gratitude? Speaker 1: Is that what you believe? Speaker 0: No. Because I know people. They said that's fish tank cleaner. That's horse tranquilizer. How dare you? And then they went on CNN to denounce him. Speaker 1: They said you're crazy. Yep. You've been infected with a deranged superstition. Everybody knows it's got nothing to do with that. You're just putting stupid ideas into the heads of your young and naive students. Stop it. So Samovai says, no. I'm not going to stop it. I'm gonna continue researching this, and I'm gonna continue publishing this. So this turns into a battle royale in Europe. Okay. Now interestingly enough, Oliver Wendell Holmes is doing the same at the exact same time. I mean, I don't know. Maybe they heard of each other. He's doing it at Harvard and he, Holmes, is not getting a bunch of blowback at Harvard, but Semmelweis in Vienna is. Okay, so this is how badly this escalates and remember this, it'd be useful to remember given the current climate of things. So the eminences of Europe say, we have to silence the sky. Semmelweis then starts firing back. You guys at this point have reached a moment where you actually know that I'm telling the truth. Like like the reality is the evidence has now come in. It's so strong that you know I'm telling the truth, but you would rather than adopt my protocol of handwashing. You would rather that young moms, young mothers, and their infants in maternity wards all over the continent of Europe, you would prefer that they die rather than admit you're wrong. Wow, man. So you know what the response was to him? You're a dangerous lunatic and we're having a court in Vienna declare you insane and we're going to put you in the Vienna insane asylum. They admit him and Is this a true story? Speaker 0: This is Speaker 1: a true story. His wife says to him, I don't see, with all due respect, dear husband, I don't see how you can be right when all of these medical immanences are wrong. So she leaves him. No way. He's completely forsaken. He put it in a mental asylum or insane asylum, there's actually an insane asylum that still stands in Vienna, it's called the Narenthurm, the Tower Of Fools. It still exists, by the way, it's very interesting. Remember the end of Amadeus, the film where Salieri is being wheeled out? He's in the Nachenturm. Yeah. Anyway, so I don't think that Semmelweis is in the Nachenthurm. I think he's at a facility in the Vienna somewhere out in the Vienna woods. A guard strikes him with something. We don't know if it was a blunt object. We don't know if it was a a sharp object. He gets an infection and he dies in an insane asylum. No. It's a true story. Speaker 0: And how long was it until he was posthumously vindicated? Speaker 1: I think Robert Koch in Germany, in the eighteen seventies, vindicated. Speaker 0: Eighteen seventies? Mhmm. Speaker 1: So decades. So consider this, when we talk about you're up against censorship and you're up against the imposition of falsehood, and no matter what you say, you're just going to be told to shut up shut up shut up. Speaker 0: I'm familiar with that. Yes. Speaker 1: It may be thirty years. Speaker 0: Yeah, that's right. Speaker 1: I mean, we may may be all gone before. So, I'll give you another example. Smoking. Tobacco. So I know you like to smoke in your younger days, and my mother will hold this against me, but when I lived in Europe, I enjoyed an occasional cigarette. Speaker 0: Well, to be clear, I I've never stopped liking smoking. I love it. But no, I I realize it has health effects that are bad. Speaker 1: So so the question was, in the nineteen twenties and thirties in Germany, is there a link between long term use of tobacco and carcinoma of the lung, cancer of the lung. And, you know, here's where you have to be really particular. So it's not that everyone who smokes is going to get lung cancer, it's not true, but could it be that in some cases, among some of the population, there's an underlying susceptibility, and if that susceptibility is activated by years of heavy cigarette smoking, could in that susceptible population, could it cause carcinoma of the lung? There was an epidemiologist in Germany named Fritz Linkett, and he did a meta analysis of all of the data from pathologists to doctors to everybody you could talk to that ever made any observations on this, and he concluded, yes, not in everybody, but in a statistically significant susceptible part of the population, cigarette smoking causes carcinoma of the lung. So that's 1930. Speaker 0: Okay. And what year did the Surgeon General's warning appear on Camel cigarettes? Speaker 1: I think Speaker 0: 1964. '64. So That's that's that's quite a spread. Speaker 1: So so sir Austin Bradford Hill was probably the most famous epidemiologist of all time, and we have these Bradford Hill criteria of evaluating causation. So in 1950, he does a landmark study and he concludes, yes, again, not everybody, but in a susceptible population, smoking causes carcinoma of the lung. In spite of his prestige, the tobacco industry, all of its hired gun doctors and the tobacco industry did have hired gun doctors, that was systematically obscured for another sixteen years. So when interests are at stake, don't expect acknowledgment of error. Speaker 0: It's all shocking, but as I think the story, the amazing story you just told reminds us we should not be shocked because this is how people are and always have been. And even if the recognition you receive for telling the truth is posthumous or doesn't come at all. It doesn't it doesn't matter because it's a virtue in itself to tell the truth, and that's why I'm grateful for the book you wrote with Peter McCullough, and I'm grateful for this conversation, which is, like, twice as compelling as what I expected. So thank you. Thank you. You don't need to be an economist to see what's happening. The dollar is in trouble. It's getting weaker. It's sad, but we're not in charge of it, So we have to respond appropriately in ways to protect our families. When paper money dies, it's gonna be replaced by programmable digital currency or gold. Gold survives. The same Americans who think they're protecting themselves with gold are the ones getting ripped off by big gold dealers. After we left corporate media, we got offered tens of millions of dollars to promote gold companies. How do get the money to spend that much on marketing? Because they're scamming their customers. We didn't want anything to do with that. So we sought an honest broker, and together we formed a precious metals company that you can actually trust. It's called Battalion Metals. At battalionmetals.com, we publish actual spot prices. We're totally transparent about the vig, what we take, and we treat everyone with honesty. So if you've been watching what's happening, you know, it's not just about money. It's about sovereignty and holding something that endures and cannot be manipulated or taken from you. So if you've been waiting for the right time to act, this is it. Visit battalionmetals.com.
Saved - December 11, 2025 at 7:20 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Lindsey Graham is obsessed with killing people. https://t.co/rW8Igeb581

Video Transcript AI Summary
The speaker critiques the Republican stance of “cutting taxes and killing all the right people,” describing it as the marriage of libertarian economics and neocon foreign policy. They argue that cutting taxes is not inherently virtuous and depends on context, contrasting this with Lindsey Graham’s view that taxes and killing are always positive goods. The speaker insists that killing people must be of the “right” people, but emphasizes that the concept of killing is presented as a good thing in this framing. They deem such a mindset as one you don’t need to describe, comparing it to sex with one’s wife, and pose a provocative question: “Have you killed someone today? … You have? Okay. That’s how he thinks of it.” The speaker concludes that saying such things makes you a “sick fuck,” and that gleefully applauding killing in front of an audience is “really evil.”
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: I feel good about the Republican Party. We're killing all the right people, we're cutting your taxes. Cutting your taxes and killing all the right people. That really is the crispest way to describe the marriage of libertarian economics and neocon foreign policy, cutting taxes and killing. And if you think about it, who'd wanna be associated with that? Cutting taxes itself is hardly a virtue. It's a contextual matter. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is. It totally depends. But in Lindsey Graham's simplistic but heartfelt formulation, cutting taxes is just a positive good always and so is killing people. Killing the right people. No. They gotta be the right people, but killing people. Killing people is just it's just a good thing. Like, it's one of the things you don't need to describe. It's like sex with your wife. Just good. Have you killed someone today? Oh, good. You have? Okay. Good. That's how he thinks of it. You're a sick fuck if you say something like that, much less if you believe it. Killing people? And if you're gleefully in front of an audience applauding like seals bragging about the killing that you were doing, that's really evil.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

If Lindsey Graham gets reelected to the US Senate, there’s no reason to have a Republican Party. Here’s how to stop it. (0:00) Monologue (45:23) Why Paul Dans Decided to Run Against Lindsey Graham (1:00:01) How Globalism Destroyed the United States (1:05:45) Republicans Secretly Colluding With Democrats (1:09:55) Lindsey Graham's Failures and Killing Campaign (1:18:57) How Does Lindsey Graham Keep Getting Reelected? (1:24:55) How Much Money Has Lindsey Graham Made Since Being a Senator? (1:27:43) Lindsey Graham's Strange Psychosexual Relationship to Violence (1:42:32) How Lindsey Graham Tried to Undermine Trump in the Fight for Election Integrity (1:44:10) Can Dans Defeat Lindsey Graham? (1:50:09) How Can People Support Dans? Includes paid partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
The program marks the one-year anniversary of Donald Trump’s second election to the presidency, noting that he won a majority of the popular vote and built a coalition broader than any Republican coalition since 1984. The host argues that, in this moment, Republicans face a civil war over what comes after Trump: revert to the pre-Trump GOP or continue evolving into what Trump has steered it toward. The core debate centers on what MAGA means and whether America-first should guide policy, especially in foreign affairs and domestic priorities. America first, according to the host, means the US government should act foremost on behalf of American citizens, considering how policies affect those who pay for and are represented by the government. This message—America first—was described as not only popular but the most popular political message in generations, and it is credited with drawing broad support from Black voters, Latino voters, and other American voters committed to drain-the-swamp, no more pointless wars, and government that represents Americans. On the other side, the host describes a return to the pre-Trump Republican identity: a neoconservative foreign policy paired with libertarian economic policy, a party of Washington think tanks and editorial pages. The host characterizes this old guard as policing its own, seeking silence and expulsion of dissenters, and as being morally compromised by foreign-policy priorities seen as misaligned with American interests. A central claim is that US foreign policy has too often advanced foreign interests—particularly those of Israel—over American interests, citing examples such as the Iraq War; assertions that policy has been immoral, illegitimate, and unsustainable; and the suggestion that dissenting voices are silenced. A focal point of the discussion is Lindsey Graham, portrayed as the living symbol of the old Republican Party. The host describes Graham as affable in person but as representing a policy direction at odds with the Trump era. Graham’s record is summarized as revealing deficits in fiscal responsibility (deficit growth from $5 trillion to $38 trillion over his tenure), a willingness to push for foreign wars, and a pattern of defending or promoting foreign policy agendas that critics say have harmed the United States. The program emphasizes Graham’s role in endorsing and promoting aggressive rhetoric and actions, including his appearances with Zelenskyy, his references to “killing the right people,” and his remarks at a Republican Jewish Coalition event in Las Vegas where he claimed that “we are killing all the right people” and “we’re cutting your taxes.” The host argues these statements reflect a dangerous and violent mindset and a departure from traditional conservative restraint. Clip analyses highlight Graham’s emphasis on Israel and his belief that God commanded particular foreign-policy policies, with assertions such as “God commanded it” and remarks about God’s will guiding policy. The program points to Graham’s frequent travel to Israel (the guest claims Graham said it was his “fifth visit since October 7”) and his portrayal as a staunch defender of Israel, even while critics say this undermines American sovereignty or prioritizes foreign interests. Graham’s statements about “the blood libel,” his defense of Israel, and his call for violence against perceived political enemies are presented as evidence of his misalignment with the values the host associates with America-first conservatism. The discussion frames a broader shift in the Republican Party as a power struggle between the old establishment and a MAGA movement seeking to realign or redefine the party’s priorities. The anonymous or explicit allegation is that Graham has long acted as an agent for deep-state or foreign interests, having supported or aligned with policies that critics say weaken American sovereignty or accountability to American voters. The guest asserts that Graham’s reelection would signal a non-responsive political system and a failure to reflect voters’ concerns, particularly in South Carolina. Against Graham, the program introduces Paul Dans, a candidate running in the Republican primary in June, who frames his campaign as an “outsider” effort to replace what he calls the “establishment” with a movement anchored in God, family, and country. Dans describes himself as an “original MAGA” and as a long-time participant in Trump-era policy development, including serving as the architect of Project 2025, which Dans says helped Trump’s administration by organizing a coalition and providing a platform for policy and personnel ready to implement reforms. Dans emphasizes his immigrant family background, working-class roots, and personal hardships as the driving force behind his commitment to restoring the country. He presents his campaign as an effort to bring accountability to government—particularly with respect to investigations, the Russia hoax, the 2020 election, and COVID-19 handling—and to end endless wars and recalibrate fiscal policy. Dans argues that Graham’s reelection would reflect a political system that does not respond to voters, noting that Graham’s stance has often opposed Trump, including his early opposition to Trump’s nomination and his later criticisms. Dans recounts his own experiences in Georgia during the 2020 election, his engagement with MAGA activists, and the perception that the RNC and campaign leadership sought to “cut bait” on Trump during the Georgia recount. Dans frames his campaign as a test of whether the MAGA movement can sustain itself post-Trump and whether the Republican Party can be realigned toward a policy program centered on American interests, less foreign entanglement, and domestic renewal. The interview also includes rhetoric about the broader political environment: a culture war over identity and censorship, debates about free speech, and concerns about social media platforms shaping political discourse. The host condemns what he sees as censorship and calls for an openness to political discussion, while arguing that the new generation—especially younger voters—are attracted to a program that promises affordable life, rebirth of the American dream, and a return to traditional American values. The show closes with a plug for voting and a call to back the Paul Dans campaign, including a request to visit PaulDans.com, invest in the campaign, and spread the message via social media. It also introduces content about a “new nine-eleven commission” and urges listeners to visit newcommissionnow.com to join a petition, arguing that the original nine-eleven Commission was flawed and that a new commission is needed to force accountability and reveal foreknowledge and other aspects of the events of September 11. Overall, the transcript captures a confrontation within the GOP over the party’s future trajectory post-Trump, the moral and strategic implications of foreign-policy advocacy, and a campaign narrative centered on America-first priorities, faith, family, and a critique of the entrenched political establishment.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Good evening, and welcome, and happy anniversary. Tonight is the one year anniversary of Trump's second election to the presidency. It was a year ago tonight that Donald Trump not only won, but won a majority of the popular vote. And not only won a majority of the popular vote, but won with a coalition that was broader than any Republican coalition probably since 1984 with the Reagan landslide, so a forty year coalition. And at the time, looking at not just how many people voted, but who voted, it seemed really obvious if you were interested in keeping the left at bay and the Republicans in power for, say, the next generation or two, you would copy exactly what Donald Trump did because no one else has done it in forty years. He created this amazing, not just landslide, really a landslide, but it was an amazing victory in an environment in which most people assumed you couldn't have an authoritative victory because the country is just too closely divided. So it was it was an amazing thing that Donald Trump did a year ago. So the election was a year ago. That means the midterm election is a year from now, and the next presidential election two years after that. So it's probably not too early to start thinking through what comes after Donald Trump. No respect to the sitting disrespect to the sitting president, but, of course, there's gonna be something after him because he can't run again. And leads to say people are thinking about that, and now they're thinking about it. They're already arguing and fighting about it. There is what Politico is calling a civil war in the Republican Party, And it's over, of course, identity because the only wars we have in this country, the only sanctioned wars we have domestically are about identity, BLM, antisemitism. Of course, it's not really what they're ever about. These are proxy wars. These are wars waged on behalf of people who aren't directly participating for reasons that are never openly stated. And this war is actually about what comes after Donald Trump. Does the Republican party, the party that now has power and a lot of money, revert to what it was before Trump, or does it continue to evolve in the direction that Trump has steered it? That's the question. And on that question hangs a lot. Well, control of the most powerful country in the world, control of the free world such as it is, the shrinking free world, and, you know, an awful lot of jobs for people and an awful lot of military power. So there is a lot at stake in this contest. So consider the two choices here. You can go with the Republican Party as it was, just basically neoconservative foreign policy, libertarian economic policy, the, you know, Republican Party of the think tanks in Washington of the Wall Street Journal editorial page of all the deep thinkers in the Republican Party. Deep thinkers in the Republican Party, deep thinkers, the ones who are always invoking, you know, the same three Reagan quotes and quoting Tocqueville incorrectly and, you know, doing their little we're erudite impression. Or does it continue to become what it is currently becoming, which is the party of Donald Trump. Well, what is that? What is MAGA exactly? How do you make America great again? Well, Donald Trump, in his sort of signature way, which is to say never quite spelling everything all the way out because he's not very ideological, but instead sort of leading by implication and by action, the position of Donald Trump in the last election was America first. And what does America first means? America first means, very simply, the US government should act foremost on behalf of American citizens, which is to say every big decision the US government makes should keep in mind the top of the list of concerns, how does this affect the people who pay for this and who I represent? And, again, most people thought that was our system that we already had. Turns out it wasn't. Donald Trump awakened all of us to that. The system was not acting in the interest of the country. It was acting really without reference to the people who live in the country who didn't care, and it was acting on behalf of a bunch of other different imperatives. And Donald Trump steered it back to where it was supposed to be in the first place, which was acting on behalf of America. That's what America first means. This was not just a popular message. This is the most popular political message that any candidate has delivered in many, many generations. And it's popular because, excuse me, it's self evidently true. Who wouldn't want that? And that, exactly that message, is the message that drew a record high number of famously black voters, Latino voters, or voters of all kinds, just American voters united by a belief that the US government ought to represent them and drain the swamp and no more pointless wars, etcetera, etcetera. But they're all branches of the same tree, which is America first, which is not only a nonthreatening message. It's really the only legitimate message that a leader of America can send, and it's the only legitimate principle that can guide any American leader. So that is the winning message. If you're hoping to keep the Republican Party dominant or make it into something more positive than it currently is, cleave to that, and you will win. It's super obvious. There's like no person who thinks about this for six minutes who could disagree with that. On the other side is a return to the Republican party that we had before, which is a party that has all kinds of other agendas, most of which are never publicly revealed, and that spends a lot of its time policing its own members. Now what does it attempt to achieve by policing them? Well, it attempts to achieve silence It wants them to shut up about what is actually happening. What is actually happening is that on the foreign policy side, which is the side that Washington cares about because it's got the most money and the most power, you can literally kill people, and there's no power greater than that, Our foreign policy is not wholly dependent on the whims of Israel. Of course, we have you know, acting in lots of parts of the world that have nothing to do with Israel, but it is unduly influenced by the concerns of Israel. And in some cases, the US government has acted, and these are all well known. The Iraq war, for example, has acted in ways that hurt The United States in order to help Israel. It has put the aims of the foreign power above its own interests. And that's immoral. It's illegitimate. It's extremely unpopular domestically, and it just doesn't work over time. That's not sustainable. You can't there's no way to justify that. So rather than trying to justify it, they scream at people and tell them to be quiet and read them out of the movement and call them names and threaten them. But ultimately, because it's not a winning message, it cannot win over time, particularly if people are allowed or somehow manage to describe it accurately. And, unfortunately, for the guardians of the old system, the old Republican Party, people have been allowed to describe it accurately, mostly because Elon Musk opened up X. And, you when know, he did that, you get all kinds of filth and nonsense and lies, but you also get some truth. Actually, quite a bit of truth. And one of the main things that people are telling the truth about that they didn't tell the truth about before is that our foreign policy really doesn't have much to do with what's good for The United States. And once those words have been uttered, they can't be taken back, and they change people's minds, and the polls reflect the fact that they have. People's views are different. So in the face of this kind of inevitable change of heart, collective change of heart in America where both parties are like, wait. Why are we doing this? The people who are benefiting from the old arrangement, which only continued because it was maintained by threats and silence, those people are going absolutely bonkers. And they have been all week, and they're claiming it's about one thing, the Holocaust or something like that. But, no, really, it's about who controls the Republican Party after Donald Trump. That's what it's really about. So ignore the moral posturing. This is a power struggle as all political parties have from time to time, this one just happens to have a lot of emotionally unbalanced hysterical people with no limits who have access to social media, so they're scaring the crap out of everybody. But it's it's really kind of a conventional power struggle. So who are the players in this? Well, some of them are in the pundit class. The more ludicrous ones are in the pundit class, but some of them are actual sitting politicians. And if you were to choose one who symbolizes what we're actually debating and the stakes of this conversation, it would have to be Lindsey Graham. Lindsey Graham is a senator, a senior senator from the state of South Carolina, one the most conservative, reliably Republican states out of 50, and he has been in Congress since 1994, so that would be thirty one years. And he is running for yet another term as a US senator. He's 70 years old. He'd like to serve till he's 77. And he has the support, not simply of the White House. He has an endorsement from the president, but he has more donor support probably than anyone who's ever run-in the history of The United States. I mean, Lindsey Graham has so much donor support, and donors just as a numerical question probably represent, you know, a hundredth of 1% of the American population, but have a great deal, higher proportion of the money. He's the most popular candidate they've ever backed. He's like a higher IQ, less grading Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis. And so they'll be backing him. And all things being equal, he will be reelected. And so why does this matter? Well, it matters not because Lindsey Graham is, like, a horrible person. I mean, he may be a horrible person. The truth is Lindsey Graham is actually a very charming person and a very interesting dinner partner and a fun person to be with. Hilariously funny. I met him for the first time. I was his seatmate on a campaign bus in 1999. He was a member of congress, and we spent a couple of weeks sitting next to each other. And by the end, I thought to myself, I love this guy. He's hilarious. Always a joke. Always has a drink in his hand. Like, he's a he's genuinely a cheerful person, probably fun to play golf with. So the reason that this is an important race is not because Lindsey Graham is like Mark Levin, you know, someone you if you were stuck in an elevator with him, you'd have to obviously kill yourself because you couldn't handle. He's not that. You wouldn't you'd enjoy being stuck in an elevator with him. The reason it's so important is because Lindsey Graham is the living symbol of the old Republican Party, the Republican Party that did a lot, almost as much as the Democratic Party, to destroy The United States. And so if he is reelected next November, that will be a sign that actually the Democratic system doesn't work. Lindsey Graham's views are not popular. They are despised in the state of South Carolina. His views, If if you were to disaggregate Lindsey Graham from what he believes and just poll Republican primary voters in South Carolina, do you agree with this? Lindsey Graham would be less popular than the Democrat because his views are repugnant to Republican voters and to Trump voters. And so if he were to get elected anyway, it would tell you that the system doesn't respond to the concerns of voters. And, therefore, the system isn't working and isn't legitimate because the point of the system is to respond to those concerns. And so a lot is at stake. If Lindsey Graham wins, it will be the most dispiriting thing to happen in American politics in a very, very long time. So if Kamala Harris were to win in the last, you know, a year ago tonight, it would be horrible. She'd be an awful president, probably even worse than Biden, insecure, fragile, weird, dumb. You can just imagine. Nightmare. But at least you could say, well, she was elected by a party that kind of agrees with her. You know? Kamala Harris got elected because the Democrats are insane. Okay. What's the excuse if you're a Republican voter, if you're a Trump voter, for electing Lindsey Graham? Hard to think of one. So just wanna spend a couple of minutes before we go to one of the men challenging Lindsey Graham in the Republican primary next June, Paul Danz, who we're gonna talk to in a minute. We want to go through a couple of things you should know about Lindsey Graham. So if Graham gets reelected, it'll be because the true Lindsey Graham, his record, his views, his priorities, his dark impulses are all lost in the haze of propaganda that surrounds him, and people only know him through the political ads that, you know, his donors paid for. So we think it's important for people to know who he actually is. We're gonna start with a clip. We could do this for, like, eight hours, but we're gonna do this for, like, twenty minutes because we wanna get to the guest. But we're gonna start with a clip from this past Saturday, I think, this past weekend. And Lindsey Graham was giving a speech with the Republican Jewish coalition, I think, in Vegas. And he was one of many speakers who were getting hysterical and threatening violence against Republicans who don't agree with them and jumping up and down and raging about the Nazis. The Nazis. You know, eighty years after we defeated them. And Graham was probably in some ways less hysterical, but he was the kind of most important officeholder at this event. And he said a couple of things that really reveal the program precisely. Here is Lindsey Graham this last weekend. Speaker 1: He recognized Jerusalem as capital of Israel. Why? Because if you got a problem with that, take it up with God. He's the guy that did it, not Trump. So I just wanna say, I feel good about the Republican Party. I feel good about where we're going as a nation. We're killing all the right people. We're cutting your taxes. Speaker 0: So other couple things to notice about this that really tell you everything you need to about Lindsey Graham. First, he's and we left the context. He's defending Donald Trump. He's saying, not defending. Trump is probably pretty popular in the room, but he's saying, you know, remember, Trump's like a great president. Why is he great? Well, because he moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. What? I mean, okay. You can make a case for it or not, but, like, why should I care exactly? It's a purely symbolic move. It has actual consequences internally in Israel, but it doesn't even pretend to improve your life. Graham didn't get up and say, you know, he made prescription drugs cheaper. He's gonna lower your health insurance, make it easier for your kids to buy a home. He got the cities under control. They're now safe. You can use the parks. He's improving the schools. You couldn't send your kids to public school. Now you can. You couldn't use the emergency rooms again because he's deported 10,000,000 illegal aliens who were hogging the space, which is where we currently are. No. The reason you should love Trump is because he moved the embassy, the US embassy in a foreign country from one city to another. Why does that matter? Well, Lindsey Graham, explain why it matters. Because God commanded it. Oh, if you don't like that, take it up with God. So God, it turns out, and this may be in one of the noncanonical books in the scriptures, God wanted the US state department to move the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. I mean, it's, like, kind of a basic tenet of our faith. It may even be in the catechism. What? And, of course, given the venue, no one raised hand and said, I'm sorry, Lindsey Graham. Not a Bible scholar here, but how do we know that God wanted the State Department to move an embassy, you know, 80 miles or whatever the distance is from one city to another. How do we know that's God's preference? But Lindsey this is kind of a tick of Lindsey Grahamson. He explained recently that if you have a problem with Israel, God will kill you, and that would include The United States. He said, I'm almost quoting him here, if United States abandons Israel, God will abandon The United States and kill us all. We'll die if we don't support, as he calls it, Israel. Israel. This is the Mike Huckabee pronunciation, Israel, to which may be some kind of, like, dog whistle meant to telegraph that, like, I'm really on your side. It may be like the Kyiv rather than Kyiv. When you call it Israel, it's like, yeah. I got it. We're on the same page. But, anyway, so the first thing we learned is the most important fact to know about Trump. The reason you should love him is because he supports Israel. Second is God demands whatever sort of, like, policy at the moment is God's will. Lindsey Graham, like, just guessing probably not a bible scholar. And if he is, he's skipping over certain parts of the book. Excuse me. And the third thing to learn, and this really is the heart of Lindsey Graham, is that the Republican Party is doing what you voted for us to do, and that is, and I'm quoting now, cutting your taxes and killing all the right people. So that that's, like, that's the perfect distillation. Lindsey Graham is clever. He's hardly a genius. He's not like a philosopher or anything, but he has summed up the Republican Party that Donald Trump overthrew more precisely than any person I've ever heard in my life, cutting your taxes and killing all the right people. Because that really is the crispest way to describe the marriage of libertarian economics and neocon forum policy, cutting taxes and killing. And if you think about it, who'd wanna be associated with that? An argument for higher taxes. Higher taxes can be bad. But cutting taxes is not an a virtue in itself. The point is if people are overburdened by the tax system, it's hurting them. And we're not getting a lot out of it if it's growing like, you know, some completely impenetrable democracy that's hurting the country, which it is, by the way, then, of course, you wanna cut taxes, I guess, to starve the cancer or whatever. You make the argument. But cutting taxes itself is hardly a virtue. It's a it's a contextual matter. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is. It totally depends. But in Lindsey Graham's simplistic but heartfelt formulation, cutting taxes is just a positive, but always, and so is killing people. Killing people. It's gonna sum up foreign policy. Killing people. Killing the right people. No. They gotta be the right people, but killing people. Killing people is just it's just a good thing. Like, it's one of the things you don't need to describe. It's like sex with your wife. Just good. Have you have you killed someone today? Oh, good. You have? Okay. Good. That's how he thinks of it. And if you take three steps back mean, you're sort of tempted if you've known Lindsey Graham like I have for twenty five years. You're like, yeah. It's Lindsey Graham. You know, he's always saying these provocative things. But if you think about it for a second, like, you're a sick fuck if you say something like that, much less if you believe it. Killing people? Ever met anyone who's killed someone? You you probably have. You may be someone who's taken a human life. It's a very heavy thing, and it's something that even if you win the fight and walk away and the other man doesn't, it stays with you for life because it's the heaviest thing there is, and it's the most forbidden thing there is. It's the darkest thing there is. We don't create life. And except under very rare specific circumstances, we're not allowed to extinguish it because we're not God. And so if you're casually encouraging other people to kill, and if you're gleefully in front of an audience applauding like seals bragging about the killing that you were doing, you know, you're not on the team you think you are. That's really evil. And if that's what your party amounts to, cutting taxes and killing people, who's for that? I mean, some people are for it. All the the ghouls in the room are Speaker 1: for it. Know? Killing people. Okay. Speaker 0: But most people, especially when they have time to think about it, like you're on a plane, you have time to stare out the window and think about what something means, you're repulsed by that because it's repulsive. It's the most repulsive thing. And in fact, a good government, a government that really cared about its people, would do everything it possibly could to prevent people with that attitude like Lindsey Graham from ever holding power or wielding it over others because they're monsters. Cheerful monster, hilarious monster, good natured monster, but monster. There's kind of no way around it. And in a moment where people are being, you know, deplatformed and censored at and called names for their opinions. You know, some of those opinions are good. Some are bad. Okay. We can debate opinions, but just not we're not debating opinions. We're just crushing people for having opinions that, you know, we're characterizing a certain way and calling them bad, denouncing them. Here you have a guy who's really never denounced by anybody bragging about killing. And all the little ghouls are applauding. It's amazing moment. Breaking news. 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Eight hours uninterrupted with Beam Cyber Price, $1.08 per night. Shop beam.com/tucker. Shop beam.com/tucker. But if you're a Republican voter, if you're a Trump voter, for example, a Republican donor, or someone who thinks of himself as, like, kind of boxed in by the system and unable to vote for anybody but Republicans, you need to do whatever you can to make sure that that's not your party's platform, cutting taxes and killing people. And you need to make sure that the guy who's joking about it on stage and beaming with joy as he talks about murder is not one of your leaders. You really have to do that for your own sake and for the sake of your country. Now are we taking that out of context? Is that just like something we pulled and he was maybe drunk again, And it was a joke, and we're being unfair, Speaker 1: and no. Speaker 0: No. Not at all. Lindsey Graham, of all members, except maybe this the that weird guy from Florida, Randy Fine, who's, like, openly endorsing genocide. Lindsey Graham of every member of congress can be relied upon at every public event, every photo opportunity, every time you run into him on the street to be calling for the murder of somebody. Killing is the point of Lindsey Graham's political career. Trying to convince the rest of us to get on board with killing when we won't, screaming at us and calling us names, and you're the hater because you're not on board with killing this or that person. It's all about killing people. I wanna give you a second example. This is Lindsey Graham who's, from the very beginning, been a staunch supporter of really one of the most brutal dictators, let's just say it out loud, in Europe in eighty years, and that would be Zelenskyy, the unelected dictator of Ukraine, who's basically devoting half of his life to extinguishing Christianity in Ukraine. All of us were supposed to ignore that, but it's actually happening, putting priests in jail, killing his political opponents, murdering critics. That's happening right now. Lindsey Graham, of course, loves him because he's he's doing a lot of killing, killing the right people, as Lindsey put it. Here's Lindsey Graham in a conversation with Zelensky. And, sorry, another parenthetical note. Graham and Zelensky, both of whom are hardened warriors who run around in military uniforms talking about how tough they are. Neither one will ever sit for an interview that isn't a kiss ass interview. I've made about a 100 requests to each of them. No. So they interview each other. But here's Lindsey Graham talking to prime minister Zelenskyy about killing. Watch. Speaker 1: Free or die? Free or die? Now you are free. Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 1: And we will be. And the Russians are dying. It's the best money we've ever spent. Speaker 0: Thank you so much. The Russians are dying. It's the best money we've ever spent. Again, just encouraging you to think about what you're hearing for a second because all of a sudden we live in a moment when a lot of people are espousing violence. It's funny. A year ago, if you would ask a year on election night, if you would ask a lot of Trump voters, why are you voting for Trump? They would give positive reasons. I really think that the American government should serve American citizens. I believe in America first. But they would also, I think, say, I'm really afraid of the other guys. And two of the things that bother me most about them is they don't believe in free speech. They're constantly pushing for censorship, and their rhetoric is violent. Their rhetoric they're encouraging violence. They encourage the BLM riots. They encourage violence all the time. And yet, a year later, here you have all these leading Republicans doing what are they doing? Oh, demanding censorship. You should be fired for saying that. You shouldn't platform someone, meaning you shouldn't let them talk, and you shouldn't be allowed to talk to people we disagree with. Obviously, we're in charge of who you talk to. That's not totalitarian or anything. I can choose who you talk to. And we're gonna just openly say that people we don't like should die. Should die. And here's Lindsey Graham taking joy in and I'm quoting Russians dying. Best money we ever spent. If you can spend money to make people die, that is money well spent. You freak. By the way, it's not you know, here are the five generals or 10 generals or list of people we think are responsible for war crimes and the Donbass. Okay. Okay. I mean, we can debate whether they are or not. Probably not, but maybe they are. And you'd say, the person who committed the crime is being punished. But Lindsey Graham, who has a completely non Western understanding of justice, is saying, because they are in this group, they must die. So that's the distinction, and this is the actual fight. It's a fight between people who understand justice the way that Christians understand justice, which is on an individual basis, we punish the guilty. We punish the person for committing the crime. We don't punish his kids. People who share the same last name or live down the street from him or look like him or are somehow related to him speak the same language as him, because they didn't do anything wrong. We don't punish the innocent in Christianity because we believe in the human soul, the individual soul. We don't think we're judged as a group. We think we are judged as individuals who will stand alone, alone, before God to account for what we did. Not for what our kids did, not for what our grandparents did, not for what our neighbors did, our countrymen did, or our leaders did, but for what we did. And that is the basis of Western justice. And it's being abandoned And without a fight, because people don't understand what is happening. But make no mistake, the attitude that you just heard from Lindsey Graham is an Eastern understanding, a non Christian understanding of justice. The Russians. What does that mean? What what Russians? Just Russians. They're dying. Best money we ever spent. So you're watching two things. You're watching someone who's embraced collective punishment as Israel has, as most of the world has, by the way. It's not just Israel, and it's not just Lindsey Graham. It's most countries at most times in history believed in collective punishment and collective reward. You're the favored group. You're the Tutsis, and you get a better deal or whatever. You're the chosen people in whatever society or religion, but you're the Brahmins. You get, because of your DNA, a better deal. Diversity, DEI, affirmative action, they're all species of the same kind of thinking, which is collective thinking, which denies the reality of the individual human soul, and it is therefore anti Christian. And the entire West was set up as a bulwark against that kind of thinking. And that's why it succeeded, and that's why it's been free and prosperous and happy. And people like Lindsey Graham don't acknowledge that, and instead they worship death. And he has, as noted, a long career of doing this. This is not a conservative principle. This is not a Christian principle. This is a left wing atheist agnostic at best principle. This is the I am God. I'll kill whom I want when I want principle. And it's been on display his whole life. On January 6, Lindsey Graham said to a Capitol Hill police officer, you guys have guns. Why don't you shoot them all in the head? I wish you had. Shoot them all in the head? These aren't Russians. These are Americans. These are like 60 year old ladies with pocket constitutions in their handbags and diabetes and bad knees who thought their election was stolen from them because they believe in the system, and so they marched on the capital. They didn't know at the time that there were, like, 230 FBI's, whatever they were, agents, provocateurs, that the whole thing was managed. Some of us sensed that immediately. Lindsey Graham could find out. Maybe he has. He doesn't care. Those people, in some cases, lured into this trap allowed into the capital by security. That's on videotape. We're not guessing. Those people should be executed because what? They made him scared, and he was scared on 09:11. Talk to his colleagues. I have. Lindsey Graham was terrified. Lindsey Graham is a physical coward. Of course, he is. All the chicken hawks are. That's why they don't fight the wars, but they're also victims in this. When you call for the deaths of others, when you regard other people's lives as meaningless, when you think it's the best use of federal tax dollars to murder them as he does, you become more afraid for your own life. It's always true. Dictators are always paranoid and afraid. They're never brave, ever. And Lindsey Graham is no different. Shoot them in the face. So the idea that Lindsey Graham is a conservative with the caveat that, like, who even knows what a conservative is now? Conservative. Is Mark Levin a conservative? Dave Rubin, whoever that is, is he conservative? Okay. I guess. I mean, whatever. But if those are the people, Ted Cruz, conservative? I don't know. Let's take a close look at Ted Cruz's wife. What's conservative about it? Let's take a close look at Lindsey Graham's life. Is that conservative? And what what's the reference point for that? What do you even mean? People like that have a completely different set of values on the deepest level, not on a surface level. We're not arguing here about tax rates, you know, and whether we should allow reimportation of prescription drugs. I mean, this is not a policy debate. This is a debate that flows from deepest level convictions, from foundational beliefs, and that is evident in the way that people live. If I took a microscope to your life, what would I find? And in the case of almost every single warmonger, you find chaos and sadness and alienation and weird behavior and abusiveness and alcoholism. It's like if they're Speaker 1: a Speaker 0: disaster, and so they're projecting outward the hate that they feel on, in some cases, entire populations and increasingly on the American population on the American population. So when you think of, like, a conservative as, you know, buttoned down and has his act together and is committed to his family and his grandchildren, it's like, this is not that conservative. So are they conservatives? Who knows what they are? But the point is Lindsey Graham has sided with the Democratic Party from his earliest days in the Congress. I mean, this is literally the guy who convinced John McCain to turn over the ridiculous Russiagate, the original Russiagate private investigator slash intel agency files about Donald Trump, the pee tape, and the rest to turn it over to the FBI as if it was real. Lindsey Graham believed that the twenty twenty election or the twenty sixteen election was controlled by Russia. There was never any evidence for that at all. But he believed that he said it. He believed Trump was a Russian agent. How did he wind up in inner circle? I mean, god knows what's actually going on. But the point is, if that's the future of the Republican Party, it's gonna be a very small party, and it's gonna be a small party where, like, the worst people in the world are all, like, clustered together, jock sniffing, yelling at each other. Who knows who knows what they do? But if you wonder, like, who Lindsey Graham actually is, what his gut instincts are, take a look at his first reaction to the death of George Floyd. And in case you don't remember that story, it was Memorial Day twenty twenty, This convicted armed robber, home invader, drug addict from a porn star tries to pass a counterfeit bill in a convenience store, like this poor convenience store owners, in Minneapolis and gets arrested for it and then promptly dies of a drug OD. That was all pretty obvious from day one, actually, but that wasn't Lindsey Graham's view at all. Here's what Lindsey Graham said about George Floyd. Speaker 1: The topic for the country is what to do after the death of mister Floyd, and what does the death of mister Floyd mean? Well, it's a long overdue wake up call to the country that there are too many of these cases where African American men die in police custody under fairly brutal circumstances. Mister Floyd's case is outrageous on his face, but I think it speaks to a broader issue. I think this committee has the potential to reinforce things in society that will lead to better policing. And hopefully, one day, if you're a young black man and the cops pull up behind you, you'll be wondering if you were going too fast rather than you're gonna get beat up. Speaker 0: Do mean? Like, it is liberal white women like Lindsey Graham who are the real problem. I mean, here he is. What's his first instinct? By the way, that's June 2020. That's, like, days after it happened. It's congressional hearing Kamala Harris is looking like, as a fake black person, I'm really, really concerned about what you're saying, Lindsey Graham. But he's saying exactly the same thing she would say. Exactly the same. What's what's the core assumption? That everything you saw at NBC News is true. The story that you were fed was absolutely true, and it was a cop problem. It wasn't George Floyd's George Floyd had nothing to do with it. He was just like some random black guy who got pulled off the street for being black and executed, thank God, on camera so the rest of us saw it, but for being black. And this is, like, endemic in our society. Was, like, haplic every black person in America is just, like, murdered by the cops. These damn white cops making $50,000 a year. They have all the power. Yeah. So that was his gut reaction. He bought the whole thing, and there he is lecturing cops. Really, the problem is we need better policing in this country. Really? And, of course, none of that turned out to be true. And, you know, it was obvious to some of us on, like, day one that this was BS. It was a manufactured crisis designed to affect broad social change. It was a revolution, and it was. And it did affect broad social change. And hundreds of thousands of Americans have died of crime or drug ODs ever since because of the so called reforms that people like Lindsey Graham screamed about, screeched about. He and the other liberal white ladies demanded that we reeducate the police because it's their fault. Imagine having that response. You know, the response Nikki Haley had that response. Nikki Haley, also from South Carolina, also a crazed neocon. First thing she said, the riots happening are good for America. We need to watch what's happening and feel the pain because we deserve it. It's our fault. Really? When a convicted armed robber tries to pass a counterfeit bill at some convenience store and then dies of a fentanyl OD, it's our fault? Tell me how that works. But no one challenged her. No one challenged him. They immediately joined the chorus of the worst people in the world whose first instinct was to blame the people who did nothing wrong, in this case, the cops. And the consequences were terrible for Americans to study, and no one ever called them to account for it. Now why did they do that? Partly because all the ladies in a certain income class or many of them have just like the same gut reactions, and it's resentment toward men, and it's self hatred, and it's guilt, and the desire to seem virtuous in public, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Books have been written about this, though not enough. But, really, it has to affect they don't care what happens to The United States because it's not really that relevant because that's not their goal. Their goal is to improve The United States, which is why they haven't, not even a little bit. Their goal is to be power players in global politics because it makes them feel strong, to kill people because you get a real electric charge from that, and to serve the interests of Israel. Oh, it's Nancy Semenic's alert. No. It's what they say out loud all the time. Here's Lindsey Graham. It's an amazing clip. I I don't no one even noticed this. Watch this. This is Lindsey Graham describing his personal travel schedule and how often he's in Israel. Watch this. Speaker 1: Well, this is my fifth visit, I think, since October 7. Mhmm. I'm here for a reason, to show support to you, my good friend, the elected leader of the State Of Israel. I'm here also to take on, and I will talk about this tomorrow, a form of blood libel in 2024, that the State of Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war. Speaker 0: It's like an infomercial. Speaker 1: It's like Speaker 0: a badly shot infomercial for, like, prostate health cures or something, super beats or something. Like, stand there well, doctor. So what's that? You know? It's like, it's unbelievable. He is doing PR Speaker 2: for Speaker 0: a foreign country. And even Netanyahu, the prime minister of another country, not our country, another country, looks a little bit embarrassed. Like, who is this this weird kind of fawning guy? Is he gonna touch my chest? It's I'm uncomfortable. You can feel that. But the whole point of Lindsey Graham being there, because he tells us it's the point, is to defend Israel from unfair criticism on the Internet. Is that his job as a US senator? To be unpaid? And we're guessing about the unpaid part, but I do sense he'd do it for free, to be a PR shill for a foreign prime minister, not even really the nation, another politician who's not an American. What the hell is going on? And then he just admits out loud, this is my fifth trip to Israel since October 7. Fifth trip. So this was in March. So that's five months after October 7. This is in March 2024. October 7 was 2023. So five months, five trips to Israel. That's one trip to Israel a month. Is there any chance that Lindsey Graham has been in the, I don't state capital of South Carolina, Columbia, once a month during that time? No. There's no chance. In fact, he hasn't. By the way, Lindsey Graham was that same year in Ukraine more often than he was in Columbia, South Carolina. And what's he doing there this time? Well, he tells us he is there to refute the blood libel. It's exactly not exactly tell me what that is, but it's something to do with, like, antisemitism or it means you hate the Jews or you're defending the Holocaust or something horrible. You're a Nazi. Something like totally beyond the pale. And the blood libel is that Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war. Now who would say that? It does seem like a kind of a tough criticism. Well, let's see. Well, Israeli cabinet ministers, Smotrich and Smotrich and Ben Gavir have both said that out loud. And they're cabinet members in the current government. And they have said, yeah, starve them out. Starve them out. Kill them. I mean, they're all the same. They're Palestinians. Their their crime is their genetics. Their blood is tainted. We have magic blood. They have tainted blood. God loves us, hates them. And when they die, it's just a virtuous thing because they're not human. There's no doubt always and everywhere that that kind of thinking, thinking about other people in terms of the group into which they were born rather than in terms of what they do, what they're like as individuals, that that kind of thinking leads to mass killing, genocide, every single time. And not just in Germany in the forties, though it did lead to genocide there, but also in the Ottoman Empire in 1918 and also in Rwanda in 1994 and actually throughout history. When people start thinking of other people, not as people, but as components of some larger whole whose value is determined by their blood, you will inevitably wind up killing all of them if you can because they're not really people. And you will also wind up saying out loud that it's okay to starve their children to death as they have said repeatedly. And not just some random guy in the comments section on the Jerusalem Post, but at least two current cabinet members of the current government. But Lindsey Graham is telling us that's a blood libel? Why are you telling me that? I have Internet access. Why are you saying that? Because you're a liar, and nothing you say is true except what you say about yourself. And that's that you love another country more than you love your own, and you love killing more than you love living. And that's enough to know. You can't be a leader in the party I vote for. I'm sorry. And so with that in mind, and we hope you agree with that. We're sorry to say it, but this is not a very safe country. Walk through Oakland or Philadelphia. Yeah. Good luck. So most people, they think about this, wanna carry a firearm, and a lot of us do. The problem is there can be massive consequences for that. Ask Kyle Rittenhouse. Kyle Rittenhouse got off in the end, but he was innocent from the first moment. It was obvious on on video, and he was facing life in prison anyway. That's what the anti gun movement will do. They'll throw you in prison for defending yourself with a firearm, and that's why a lot of Americans are turning to Berna. It's a proudly American company. Berna makes self defense launchers that hundreds of law enforcement departments trust. They've sold over 600,000 pistols, mostly to private citizens who refuse to be empty handed. These pistols, and I have one, fire rock hard kinetic rounds or tear gas rounds and pepper projectiles, and they stop a threat from up to 60 feet away. There are no background checks. There are no waiting periods. Berna can ship it directly to your door. You can't be arrested for defending yourself with a Berna pistol. Visit bernabyrna.com or your local sportsman's warehouse to get your stay. Berna.com. With that in mind, Paul Dans is running against Lindsey Graham in the Republican primary, is in June. We don't know a ton about him. We're about to find out, but that's all we need to know. This is unacceptable. Ladies and gentlemen, Paul Dans, I'm grateful you're here. My pleasure. Thank you. And I'm grateful that you're running against Lindsey Graham, not just as a protest candidate or some, you know, 80 year old I'm fed up guy, but as someone who understands the policies, who's been involved in making policy, and who has a realistic chance of beating Lindsey Graham. And I just want to say out loud, yet again, my motives are not personal. I've always liked Lindsey Graham, but I think he's very obviously evil. And if he is the face of the Republican Party, normal people can't support it, including me. So it's so important to send the statement that we are not for killing of innocence or bloodlust or whatever weird demonic trip Lindsey is on. And I so I'm just I'm really praying for your victory. So how did you decide? Let's just start at the end. How did you decide to run against Lindsay Graham? Speaker 2: Well, I'm original MAGA. You know, I kinda go back to even HRAS PARO days, and we'll get in Speaker 0: a little bit about how I So you supported PARO? Speaker 2: Oh, I was a PARO. PARO is my first vote for president. I came from a kind of a traditional ethnic Catholic family, working class. My parents were the first to go to college Yeah. To actually speak English. My my siblings were the first. They my parents spoke Spanish and French at their households. But, you know, my why am I running ultimately against Lindsay is for God, family, country. I don't think we have a a choice at this stage. This is about the future of the movement, whether MAGA, America First Lives or Dies. We have to start thinking post Trump, and and this is gonna be the fight for the future of this country. I've I've I've I stand on the shoulder of giants, my family's tradition coming here as immigrants, living the American dream, building, working for it, fighting for it, dying for it, and I can't sit on the sidelines with all the gifts, you know, the Lord has has given me at this point in time. I'm a dad of four now to be five. And Well, you have a fifth child on that? I do. It's quite incredible. My wife is twenty two weeks pregnant, and it's a blessing from God. You know, this is so what happens when two folks try to work from home. Speaker 0: That that what happens? I wish I had five. I Speaker 2: meant this. No. My wife's a famous ballerina, and so she's you can imagine she worked does her workouts at home and everything like that. But I I've been very supportive of her of her business, and and I was, you know, working in the trenches, if you will, for the last five, seven years, really, with the Trump admin. I I was the architect of Project twenty twenty five. And, you know, right now, this is I I believe God has a plan for us all, and this is a calling, but it's it's also that I have the life experience. We I cannot sit back and watch somebody like Lindsey Graham represent our state. No. I live God family country. And when you live those values, that's how you can actually happen make them happen in Washington. That's exactly right Speaker 0: because it's sincere because you're defending your religious faith, your family, and your nation. It's not theoretical. It's not an ideology. It's not a personal fetish, which I think in his case it is. If I see one more homoerotic picture of Lindsey with Ukrainian soldiers, I'm just I'm I don't know what I'm gonna do. And I'm not attacking, you know, or attacking gays or anything like that, but, like, this is just this is a one man sick fetish being imposed on a nation of 350,000,000, and I'm just sick of it. But it's one thing to oppose that. I'm not running against Lindsey Graham. Like, how did you actually decide to put it on the line and start a a senate campaign? Speaker 2: Well, like I say, I I was a Trump guy before Trump knew he was running. I I I and we can talk more about my family's bio because I feel that that informs so much of who I am. Yeah. But, you know, I I was hoping Trump Trump won ran in 2012. Yeah. And I'm one of these guys who is kinda curious about the birthplace of a former president, if you will, which Trump was asking all those questions. I remember him going up to Vermont to New Hampshire here, and I thought he was gonna announce, and famously, he called on for the birth certificate. But, you know, Trump was Speaker 0: So you saw Trump even then in 02/1112 as a potential political leader. Speaker 2: Absolutely. You know, my my dad's family came up from a cold water flat in New York City, and, you know, my grandparents built that city. They were Emma Grays. My my they were born in The US, but their their parents weren't. And to see that city grow, you know, my grandfather was at sea for forty years as a as a marine, a merchant marine, and Yeah. And my grandmother was an interpreter. She spoke eight languages in in in the city. But the malaise that happened in the nineteen seventies, they never thought would change, and then it did change with Rudy Giuliani and Trump, and this a belief that we could rebuild in America. And so I knew of Trump long before that just from hearing the stories of my grandparents about, you know, facing being mugged on the subway and all the how the city has slid down, and finally people were digging out New York. And he's he's famous for the Wallman Rink there. Yes. But it's emblematic of somebody who basically comes in and reorders the system, and who kinda is a strong man in a way as a mayor or somebody who can actually come in and get things done when bureaucrats are running around doing nothing. Exactly. Speaker 0: It's it's funny that you you saw that so early. I didn't at all. And when Trump called me in 2015 to say he was running, I I knew him, of course. I always liked him, but I said, know, that's laughed at him because I didn't get it at all, and I didn't take it seriously at all. I mean, I assumed changed my views, but I just it's interesting that you saw it so early. Speaker 2: Well, like I say, you know, we we graduated my you know, if we can go back to to kinda how I evolved Yeah. As as to be, like, a Republican. My family dance is Spanish, is Gallego, and my grandparents were living down in the cold water flat. That means there's no hot water. This is Yeah. A tenement that they tore down. They moved my family into housing projects. And, ultimately, my dad was was his only child, but he was can think of it almost as a dookie house or a guy who was raised by his maternal grandmother because everyone was working. She was a a cleaning lady. And he made it to military school, graduated college in '19, and then Columbia Medical School at 23. So he became like a leading man in medicine. He was in the Berry Plan, which is the doctor's draft back in the sixties. They needed doctors for the military, so my dad was drafted into that and did his Vietnam service in the NIH. But this was you know, at the time my grandfather was at sea, and this is when New York was really its top mercantile existence where there were actually factories in New York City. He was later on on the Murmansk Run, which is the famous convoys in the North Atlantic, and grandpa was in the engine room, which, you know, this is if you want a definition of what a man is, because I know our culture struggles to define a woman, but you can imagine somebody like Popeye. I think my grandparents literally looked like Popeye in olive oil, but he literally had a tattoo on his forearm. But these were the people who were just brave and did it, you know. And he he went to to see in World War two, you know, Nazi torpedoes sunk in his boat. These guys, when they came home, the merchant marines, these were hardscrabble people, they didn't even get veterans benefits. So my family tradition is kinda like giving everything for this country and getting kicked in the teeth for it, and then coming and loving it even more. So ultimately, they did give veterans benefits in 1989, and I believe that Goldwater, Barry Goldwater was one of the chief champions of this. So my grandparents became Goldwater conservatives. Speaker 0: Really? Speaker 2: That's how they they evolved to be Reaganites. So they were kinda these hard hat outer borough New Yorkers who who moved from, you know, slum tenements to public housing, and then ultimately to a little piece of the rock up in the Bronx. So that's my dad's side of the family. And, you know, my mom's side is even more, you know, maybe not more patriotic, but the same sort of crew that came from working class stock. They were French Canadian immigrants. My grandfather was one of 22. That's kind of, I guess, runs in Speaker 0: our Speaker 2: blood. But my mom was the youngest of eight in a town called Woonsocket. They worked in the textile mill Woodsocket, Speaker 0: Rhode Island. Speaker 2: Woonsocket, Rhode Island. Textile mill workers. Right? And these guys were the mechanical geniuses. Five of her brothers went off, fought World War two. Their first language was was French. Yeah. So they actually went behind enemy lines. They cut the supply lines. They landed on d day. And these were the simple guys who kinda came back to the machine machine shops and stuff here to only see the factory town move abroad Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: In in the nineteen nineties. Speaker 0: The story of all New England. Yeah. The French you know, the the Arcadians coming down to staff the factories and then just getting marooned. Speaker 2: Yeah. It's it's the story of all over this country. You know? Yeah. And we had moved around like I said, my dad was in military. I know Lindsay's team likes to tag me as a New Englander, but I lived in Boston for all two months when I was a baby. But my dad was on orders from the military. So, you know, it's kinda like he's a Vietnam vet, and and we're a military family moving around. We we moved to Colorado in the early seventies, and this was post hippie Colorado. And dad wasn't quite a social justice warrior, but it was a little closer to kinda Archie Bunker dynamic where he they were, you know, kind of questioning the Vietnam War. Dad had done his service, but there wasn't something sitting right about it. And ultimately, he stood up the first migrant health clinic in and kind of because his first language was Spanish. So as well as, like, feedee walk in clinics. These were my dad revolutionized a lot how medical care is given that we take for granted. In the old days, you only had a primary care physician. Yeah. So we came east in the in the bicentennial year in 1976, and that was kind of my wonder years, and I think that's what really built the whole patriotic feeling because, you know, these were all I knew were these great quiet men and women who sacrificed for the country. And, you know, living in the in the footsteps of Mount Vernon, we came east. I was a health policy fellow on on the hill and got a taste of kind of public policy, and we got to go around Washington in in the bicentennial year. My parents were. My mom was chemist. She and she and my father were introduced by the parish priest in 1966 in in Washington. So they were Kennedy esque. They were the people who came to Washington and were not asking what their country could do for them, but what they could do for their country. So, literally, I'm I'm the spawn of two NIH scientists and very patriotic background. We, you know, learned back in those days, we used to sing songs, patriotic songs in second grade and third grade, and and kinda came up through that. Dad ultimately got recruited to Johns Hopkins where he stood up the first ethics in medicine course. So dad and mom, we were very faithful Catholics and always going to church. I was an altar boy after all. But that's how we kinda grew up. K through 12 public schools. My mom went and worked in the underprivileged schools in Baltimore, and I went to MIT. I was recruited to go to MIT, and and there I kind of encountered the first taste of globalism and what was happening, and this kind of struggle to hold on to your working class valued roots in your family in the face of kind of what they're telling you, a more global picture. And and that's that rubbed me the wrong way, and that's how I how I got to HRAS. Speaker 0: You never fell for it at all? Speaker 2: No. I didn't. I, you know, I think it was I was blessed with great parents. You know, I I I really respected mom and dad, and and ultimately, I think when you look at a politician, you want to you should have a right to value that person. Say that person could be a role model. I struggle in life, but I was blessed with the right direction early on, and I know a lot of people haven't been in those situations and have to overcome things. I certainly overcame a lot. It's been my childhood as well. But, you know, you the grounding that you get and and those values carry you for the rest of your life, and I didn't fall for it. And I saw, you know, my my twin brother, identical twin, Tom, went to Brown. So he's going to Brown at the same time I'm going to MIT, and I'm hearing about this kind of this is where they incubated cultural Marxism. Okay? My two sisters both went to Princeton. So we were like this kind of family of nerds. Right? That my dad was a professor, my mom was a public school teacher, and we were all about education, you know, gifted and talented, always always striving. But and we began to get this dosage of of cultural Marxism. What was interesting though was we came up at the end of kind of the cold war period. So in public schools in Baltimore County, they actually were teaching Russian, and my three siblings learned were Russian from probably a retired CIA agent. Oh, for sure. They were but we they were the last off the production line of kind of, you know, red blooded Americans who could speak Russian. And and, you know, my parents had this just a great ability to in inculcate us with values and arts, and my mom was a pianist. She she turned down the scholarship to Eastman School of Music to go to college at at Trinity in Washington first on the full scholarship. But so that's I never fell for it, and I felt quite the opposite. I I I pursued economics at MIT and and then ultimately a master in in urban planning, and that's where I became a, if you will, a community organizer. Later on, knocked Obama, was the community organizer in chief, but that's where they were training also starting a lot of this kind of indigenous people work and kind of questioning of American society from a social organizing sort of point of view. But to backtrack to the economics, this is at MIT in the early nineties was when they were putting up the theoretical basis for globalism. And I remember, you know, MIT economics is probably the top in the world. That's where all the Nobelists hang their hat. And my my macroecon professor, Solo, was literally receiving the the award that that year in in '91, I believe it was, or '90, and he was beginning to put the theoretical underpinnings for if we moved production out of The United States, but as long as the return to capital came back to United States citizens, we would be all set. And what they never factored in is what what they called externalities. Right. And the externalities are the mom and pops and all the families that have built their entire life around this factory town that have all their equity in that house that have their social Speaker 0: The idea was you could just move, and if you make it easy for capital to move, then human beings will move, and you'll also have a much more efficient system, and you'll take out all the friction, and everything will be great. We'll all be richer and happier. Yeah. Well, it was obvious immediate because Gary, Indiana had already happened. Detroit had already happened. So we Baltimore had already happened. The steel mill closed in Baltimore. So it's like you knew what would happen if you took the manufacturing out because it had happened. Absolutely. They didn't care at all. Well, I used Speaker 2: to take the train up from Baltimore to MIT, and that's how I I talked about seeing the passing scenery of these derelict factories. Yes. And I'm the guy who's staring out the window the whole time imagining going, what's happening here? And I'm knowing about my own family. You know, my my uncles, they they fearlessly fought World War two. They came back and, you know, the the the mill closed and the mill moved, and now he's literally a Maytag repairman. And, you know, the kids are getting into alcohol and drugs and and this, and you can kinda see it happening in real time. Speaker 0: Which is kinda weird for circa 1990, anyone to be trying to expand the the disaster that led to the pro campaign, ultimately led to two Trump presidencies. Like, we knew and I I lived here. We're the same age. I remember very well thinking, well, that doesn't work. If it worked, then what is the explanation for Gary, Indiana? Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we I mean, the giant sucking sound from the South, when when he put that in place, H. Raspero did, and basically talked about NAFTA and the fact Yes. Of moving all these factories over over the border, he was prescient about it. And to be sure, you know, we were we were coming out of this peace dividend. Clinton had just come up to be president, and we're talking about base closures and realignments. And this is kind of like we had a great opportunity to make this the country of milk and honey. Like, you have to back up and say, why are we not overflowing here? Why is why do we live in in a in a society where people are literally knuckle dragging right now with fentanyl in Philadelphia and walking around? Like, how could this be after we fought those wars and invested all that blood and treasure? Speaker 0: Yeah. I thought we won. We Speaker 2: would have thought. Right? But, you know, the struggle the fight never ends, and that's the point of why I'm running. That we need to there's just so much shared sacrifice over two hundred and fifty years from not only my ancestors, but pretty much everyone listening to this, they have a story. Some root back longer. My wife's family came three hundred years ago, and they were, you know, farmers in Eastern North Carolina and and kinda hardscrabble life. You wanna listen to the stories of my mother-in-law talk about the wall and, like, the deprivation after the civil war even. But, you know, it's it's to forget all that in a in a generation or two is is absurd. And and I have the ability now that I've I've worked on the front lines. I was a top attorney in Manhattan. I've I've facing off with the progressives. I understand how they think. And then I went into government and was able to re reinvent it in a way that now has allowed president Trump to come out, you know, as gangbusters. That's that's why I'm standing up. Speaker 0: As important as it is, politics is not the answer to this country's or man's greatest problem. The only solution is Jesus. Sorry. That's true. At its core, politics is a process of critiquing other people and getting them to change. Christianity is the opposite. Christianity begins with a call for you to change, me to change. It's called repentance, and it brings you back to God. When God is at the center, hearts change. Only that will lead to the end of abortion, the greatest atrocity this country's ever participated in. The normalizing of killing babies is a stain on this country. Our friends at Preborn are doing everything they can to stop it by providing free ultrasounds to pregnant women. Preborn has rescued over 380,000 children. Are a lot of nonprofits out there. A lot of them call themselves pro life, or I wouldn't trust all of them. Sorry. I do trust preborn. I know them well. What they do works. Once a mother hears her child's heartbeat for the first time, she becomes twice as likely to have the baby. The ultrasound saves lives. It's $28 for you to sponsor an ultrasound and join Preborn's movement. Just call 250 and say the keyword baby. That's 250, keyword baby, or pull it up at preborn.com/tucker. That's preborn.com/tucker. Defend the preborn. There's nothing, nothing more worth it. We hope you'll join us. It's interesting, though, because you I've you know, you look back to not to dwell on the past, but to, say, 1990, 1992, Clinton's election, 1998, I think, Lindsey Graham's election. And it just seemed like it was liberals versus conservatives. It was like normal people versus Clinton or later normal people versus Obama. You didn't really understand or I didn't understand that there were different kinds of Republicans, and some of them were actually aligned with the Democrats, secretly, Lindsey being the most obvious, and others were really for the country and for fixing the country. I didn't get that. You clearly did. If you're supporting tell me why you supported Perot, for example, in '92, his first run. Speaker 2: Well, you know, I I think it was my parents were this kind of, you know, push and pull with with Reagan. I mean, to your credit, you guys saw Reagan early on, and my grandparents saw Reagan early on. I I was John Anderson, if you will. If you want to really go back, in fourth grade, we had the, you know, the we did our mock debates, and I was there was Reagan, and and there was Carter, and and I was John Anderson in that. Speaker 0: To my neighborhood. Speaker 2: No kidding. Yeah. Interesting. I guess it was the independent streak was early on in me. And, you know, it it was really searching for the values that that I was never part of anyone's club. Okay? So I you know, we we had my dad was in academic medicine. We weren't wealthy, but we did well enough. And but we were public schools, and and I, you know, I was a nerd, basically. I I had glasses. I had headgear, if anybody remembers that. I had I had a tough time at dyslexia. And Headgear and dyslexia? Oh, yeah. I had it all. Speaker 0: Can you explain what for those who are, you know, not 56, what headgear is? Speaker 2: Well, that was an orthodontic thing where Speaker 0: Yeah. Sure was. It was also an aesthetic thing. Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, growing up in in the eighties was a magical time, really. I I wouldn't trade it for the world, and I think there's a lot. You know, I even talk about going back to the future now. But, you know, it's a little difficult junior high, but I was, you know, nurtured by my parents. I was, you know, a mass whiz. Speaker 0: Not to linger, but on headgear. Yeah. For those who don't know, they're like wires that went, like, around the back of your neck on your teeth. Right? Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. No. This was a a kind of a passage of of adolescence. You know? And But it's pretty Speaker 0: it was extreme orthodontia. It was like, it was the orthodontic equivalent of, like, the halo you get when you break your neck. Speaker 2: It's like Yeah. I it it was not flattering, but Speaker 0: Makes a tough man though over time. Speaker 2: Oh, sure. Sure. You know, I ultimately became an all American lacrosse player. You know, this is like we we had this nurturing I mean, the the guys who ran our our school system were the Korean War vets. So I really credit them in this kind of Cold War Baltimore upbringing where they were, like, you know, weak American teenagers. I remember my gym coach there in in in junior high talking about, like, you know, we had to do push ups and we had you know, you know, there was, like, the showering and and going out there and playing football and and just kind of, like, stuff nowadays, people would be like, no. That doesn't work. But they would take wrestling, and they'd like, you and you wrestle now in the in the center of the thing. And it was that was kind of what we were growing up with. But the my principal there in public school was this quiet man in terms of humble, a a war hero. He literally didn't have use of his arm, but he was doctor Cato, would say, you know, he saluted excellence. His entire thing was at Delaney, we do things just a little bit better, and he'd get on the Internet on the intercom and basically salute every time a student really excelled. So he it was it was merit based. It was all about excellence. It was always about pushing yourself just a little bit harder, And that's what I came up with, and and that's the sort of values I think that built our country, and we need them back. Speaker 0: Okay. So but to be fair, to Lindsay, if you were to ask Lindsay what makes you qualified to be a senator, he would say, well, fundamentally, I'm patriotic. I love this country. I'm from a patriotic family. I believe in the same values that founded this country. Like, he would say the same. I think any politician would say the same on on certainly the Republican party. But what is it about Lindsey that gives you the impression he's not telling the truth about that? Speaker 2: Well, look. He has a thirty two year record. He's actually elected in 1994. So he had Speaker 0: Oh, was he class of '94? Speaker 2: Wow. He had four full terms in the house, and now he's done four full terms in the senate. And so let's, like, break down his record here. When he came to Washington, it was $5,000,000,000,000. Now it's $38,000,000,000,000. So his entire time has been deficit spending without any regard for this death debt. He also you know, he is marked with these endless wars. Everything he's supported from, you know, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, you name it, he wants to invade it and bomb it. And then just this last couple of weeks, obviously, Venezuela and and Iran before that. So this this notion of patriotism for him only runs towards kinetic fighting abroad for and then we have to ask what is the purpose of that? Because every time we extend ourselves abroad, at you know, we are necessarily diminishing our ability to build this city on the hill back home. And and Well, yeah. He's never, you know, championed any of these things. Like, here, I have this life experience where my parents were NIH scientists. I like look. I I was at my mother's deathbed when she died of cancer, breast cancer at 65, you know, and I'll never use the term death throes when you've actually seen your mom pass. But why do we still have breast cancer? Why do we sell 300,000,000,000 to Ukraine? Why why you know, and I and likewise with my dad, like, great man of modern medicine at Hopkins. I had to say goodbye to dad in the moon suit, you know, with COVID in in February 2021. This is right after Trump left office, but, you know, they were the whole COVID thing was just so ridiculously foisted on us, and we need to get to the bottom of that. So but, you know, I I walked in there on day three, and they said, could say goodbye to your dad for, like, fifteen minutes. And then I go, well, he doesn't really have COVID. Could you test him? And, you know, they refused to test him. They kept you know, those tests didn't really work in after a fact, and they told us all all this transmissibility lies. But, you know, that ultimately expired seven on day seven, and they're like, well, you can use a, you know, a laptop if you wanna join him or whatever. So it's you know, I've suffered a lot of this personally where I I feel like we need that fire in the belly to get up there and use to to to use this perch in in congress, in the senate, to really drill down on these people and get Americans answers. What happened? Speaker 0: Do you see Lindsey as, like, an effective voice in any of these issues, the ones that matter to Americans? Speaker 2: Not at all. No. I think he's quite the opposite. He's run interference for the deep state. I I like to call him deep state Lindsey because if you trace back look. If Lindsey had his way, there never would have been a Trump, and we can't be gaslit to forget all this. He was the one of the most vociferous attackers on Trump early on. He said, Trump it would be the worst nominee in the history of the Republican Party. If you wanna make America great again, tell Donald Trump to go to hell. And, you know, he voted for the CIA stooge, Evan McMuffin, Evan McMullen. Like, he didn't even vote for Trump, guys. And then what happened was Speaker 0: He voted for Evan McMuffin? Yes. Did he admit that? Yes. He probably admitted it. You know, is a guy who is And Evan McMuffin was, like, literally connected to the CIA and Mindy Finn or whoever that deputy woman you ran was saying. Speaker 2: We can't forget history. I mean, I we're we shouldn't forget COVID. We can't forget nine eleven, but you can't forget what Lindsey Graham's been about. He did not change his stripes. This guy is a vehement, shape shifting, anti Trumper. In '17, when we had both houses of congress and the presidency, and remember the the seminal promise was to build the wall, what did this guy do? He went and reinforced that bogus narrative that the Russians had hacked the election. He literally had subcommittee hearings where he said the purpose of this hearing is to reinforce that the Russians had interfered with election, and that had the point of carrying water for the Democrats to delegitimize Trump. So instead of building a wall, which now fast forward ten years later, there's 20,000,000, you know, invaders in this country, this is how this guy used his seat in congress to actually delegitimize it, to basically support Ray. He he voted for Ray. He he voted for Comey. When the president threatened to fire Mueller, he threatened the president. And every every option that he ever had to do any oversight on this kind of spying mechanism, kind of deep state, he always abstained. So, you know, even you see a great thing where he was chairman of the committee in in 1920, and Maria Bart Bartiroma was asking repeatedly, when are you gonna issue subpoenas? When are you gonna get to the bottom of this? And he said, you know, I will send a strongly worded letter when they're wrapped on their investigation. Speaker 0: Yeah. When the Speaker 2: So it never happened, and, you know, this is a guy who's basically running interference for the other side. Well, he is. Speaker 0: Pure Talk customers are proud of their wireless company. Think about that. You never hear anyone with Verizon or AT and T say, I'm really proud to use Verizon or AT and T. No. They're a little embarrassed. They might be satisfied with the service, feeling proud? No. Probably not. And there's a reason. Americans with PureTalk feel proud to use PureTalk. It's not some soulless global corporation with call centers in Pakistan or Bangladesh. It's an actual American company built by Americans on American values, and they work to support veterans. This month, Pure Talk is using a portion of its sales to support K Nines for Warriors. 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And I remember walking in for lunch one day, and there was Lindsey sitting in a booth with James Murdoch, who is Rupert Murdoch's son, very left wing son, vehemently anti Trump, spent a ton of millions of dollars against Trump, you know, huge donor to the ADL, like, really, really a dark figure. And there was Lindsey, drunk, by the way, which is I don't think, you know, that uncommon for him, yapping away, laughing with James Murdoch. I was like, holy smokes. And I work for the Murdoch. So, like, I know who James Murdoch is. He hates me. And there's Lindsay, like, clearly plotting with him, and then Lindsay sees me, and, you know, he's very friendly, will say. And he comes up, and he's like, all, like, drunkenly talking to me. But I like, wow. You're eating with James Murdoch. Like, he is the deep stater. There's no question. Speaker 2: Well, I I mean, I think when he tried to stop Trump the first time and and then he was, you know, beholden to John McCain. When John McCain died, that's when he flipped, and he changed tactics. And it was like he was gonna literally grab his golf bag and try to cozy up to the president. Right. And he saw 2020 coming. Look. The whole state hates Lindsey. I mean, he's he's been booed in his own hometown for six minutes straight. He won't get on the stage with president Trump because he knows he'll face this booing. They literally turned their backs on him, But he he knew that everyone in South Carolina was rabid Trump, and that was gonna be the only way for him to reinvent himself. Speaker 0: But at the same getting reelected? Speaker 2: Well, you know, in in 2020, I think it was a fluke. I think it was undercover of COVID, and, you know, the the point was that we we had there was no viable challenger. There is a machine in South Carolina. Yeah. You know? And I'm running against the machine. I've never been part of anyone's club, and that probably goes back to the headgear and the glasses. But, you know, I'm an outsider, and I and I attack. But, you know, there is serious money involved. And Are Speaker 0: you getting the donors like Lindsey? Well, do they play a role in this? Speaker 2: Yes. I mean, it's it's incredible that I'm here to wrestle this senate seat back to the people of South Carolina. Speaker 0: It's So the donors shouldn't be totally in charge of the country. Is that what you're saying? Speaker 2: That's my proposition. Look. It's extraordinary that he got reelected in '20. And, you know, in short order, he was turning his back right on Trump. He famously you know, in on July on January 6, he incredulously said to the Capitol Police, we gave you guns. Why didn't you shoot more of those people in the head? This is a guy who, you know, notwithstanding you guns. Speaker 0: Why didn't you shoot more and I'm really trying not to be vicious or use slurs against on security. Certainly use them against me, but I wanna be I wanna be Christian. I don't wanna do that, but, boy, it's tempting when you hear that because that is so evil. Why didn't you these are Americans. Speaker 2: These are American these are protesters. They're exercising their First Amendment rights. They're also, Speaker 0: like, the most decent people in the country. They're, like, toting their little pocket constitutions. Like, they they believe in our system. They believe in the in the order that our founders created, and Lindsey Graham doesn't and doesn't care. And he's calling for their murder? Speaker 2: I mean, he he Speaker 0: That's unbelievable to me. Speaker 2: He's always calling for violence. It's it's almost a bizarre you know, it's killing at at the top of Speaker 0: his mind. He just did this, I think I don't know if it was violence against me. I know he was attacking me. That's not why I'm doing this. I don't care what he thinks of me, but I just he was calling for wasn't he calling for violence this past weekend? Speaker 2: Yeah. He was speaking it's it's actually a disqualifying speech. If you look at it, it's so unbecoming of The United States senator, and I and I think it's it's one for the books. But he got up there in Las Vegas, the Republican Jewish Coalition, and he definitely seemed to be under the influence of something. Well, he's drunk all Speaker 0: the time. It seems to me. I have noticed that look. Speaker 1: I'm not Speaker 0: calling him an alcoholic. I'm just saying as as an alcoholic myself who's recovered, I would say every time I see him, he's drunk. So there's something. Speaker 2: Well, he was feeling his oats, and he got up there and literally said to the audience who are, you know, Jewish in the main, and I I I think that this is a great slander, you know, in time to times in terms of characterizing your caricaturing your audience. He said about about the administration, we are killing all the right people, and we're cutting your taxes. Killing all Speaker 0: the right people. When you find yourself I mean, he's 70 years old. He's gonna have to face the consequences of this at some point, the eternal consequences. If you're bragging about killing people Speaker 2: Well, I think there is a sixth commandment against such a thing, the instruction Yeah. From our Lord many millennia ago, but, you know, let's break that down to, you know, it can his constituent parts as an attorney. You know, if I were taking a deposition of him under oath, I'd say, let's let's break this sentence down. Okay. We are killing. Who is the we in this? Okay? Are are we talking now about the United States government? Are we talking about the Ukrainians? Are we talking about the government of Israel? Who who is we? And then killing, you know, it's like, okay. Well, are we talking about bombing people, or how exactly are we killing them off? Doesn't matter. You know? And then all the right people and then you say to yourself, well, all the right people or you mean people on the right? Well, Charlie Kirk was just killed. Yeah. You know? Like, can you have a little bit of space from the man's actual wake before you're intoning violence? And then he he turns in the next sentences to actually threaten violence against the right. Now this is a guy who just said shoot people in the head on j six is now saying, if someone stands for office and critiques Israel, we're gonna beat their brains in. You said that? Yes. He said beat beat their brains in, and then he he later on used Speaker 0: We're gonna gauze them. Speaker 2: Well, he said cream them as well, which is, you know, kind of an unfortunate turn of phrase for him. But, you know, beat their brains in, and it's just like, who are you talking about? Like, why Speaker 0: would you that's be problem? He's talking about hurting Americans, killing Americans on behalf of another country, a foreign power. Okay? So, like, I I don't even know what to say to that. If if you're not appalled by that, go ahead and vote for him, but Speaker 2: where's your Celebrating this whole rant. It's it's extraordinary thing, and I guess you haven't seen it, but then he goes on to Speaker 0: I have not seen Speaker 2: both president Trump. We we we're all out of bombs. You know? We didn't even run out of bombs in World War two. It's like, China, if you're listening, you're sitting in United States senator just told you that we were all out of bombs. And, like, we know that we can't restock all those those, you know, shoulder fired missiles that they take seven to ten years to build, that we have no industrial base, but he's literally bragging about the fact that all of our munitions have been passed to defend this eastern border of Ukraine. For what? Speaker 0: But yet none of this benefited America. None of this had anything to do with America. Speaker 2: It's absurd. Speaker 0: We were invaded while he was in the senate. He said nothing. Speaker 2: Benefited some people in America. If you happen to own the defense industrial stocks and and, you know, you Has he Speaker 0: gotten rich in the senate? I haven't even checked. Speaker 2: Well, I who who knows? That's it's a it's a good question to ask, though. Speaker 0: It doesn't matter. He's 70 with no kids. So, like, why does he care? Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think that the point is that he has been supported. This senate seat is kind of wholly owned by a foreign interest or kind of in the defense industrial components, and and it's so far removed. The people of South Carolina are are a mere kind of imposition, really, the voters. And it's like, we will deal with you once every six years. We will gaslight you. I'll get a couple photos of me behind president Trump and, you know, just kinda move along. But, you know, meanwhile, South Carolina's 50 out of 50 in roads. Okay? People die on our secondary roads. The the actual infrastructure is thirty years behind, which roughly maps the time this guy's been in Washington. He's never brought the bacon home. He's when if unless you think of home as Ukraine or some foreign interest. But certainly, you know, South Carolina, you go off the main highways, which by the way, if anyone's driven through on the 95 or on the 20 or the 26, They're two line two lane death traps. They've never been expanded. Now they're being beginning to be expanded. But, you know, people's roofs are falling in. Rural America's decaying. The industry moved out, and this is what we get. We get a senator who's obsessed with foreign war. You know? I think it's half of 1% of of the South Carolina population is Jewish. So, yes, I mean, like, look, I I reaffirmed the right for for Israel to exist and, you know, and certainly always defending the Jewish people in the wake of the Holocaust, particularly. But I don't derive my foreign policy views based on my, you know, my theological understanding of the Bible. I'm America first guy. I'm this is the country my my family fought for, worked for, died for, and everyone else did. So this frame that a US senator would spend three days in Washington and then run off to Kyiv or Kyiv as we used to call it and hold hands with a foreign dictator who suspended elections, who's imprisoned the opposition, who shut down the press. Speaker 0: About a weirdly hot foreign dictator in a tight fitting military uniform or a track suit? I mean, that I I'm just saying they're mitigating circumstances here. Like, kind of a young Fidel or, like, Che in the Sierra Madre 1958, you know, cigar clenched resolutely in his teeth. Like, there is a kind of appeal there. Speaker 2: Well, maybe that's what the Venezuela thing can be explained that way. Should Latin. Can't. I actually said Speaker 0: to myself, don't be a jerk during this interview, but, of course, I can't. Have no self control. Speaker 2: Look. I mean, his his sexuality is is his own thing, but if it's if it's based on kind of his psychosexual urge for violence It Speaker 1: that's a Speaker 0: problem. It let's just be let's stop lying. Okay. Okay. I'm not being mean this is a very recognizable phenomenon Yeah. That has reoccurred throughout history, and it is tied up in your personal life. And I'm not not I'm not even talking about his sexuality. Just mean the way that you live reflects your values, and it affects your opinions on everything. And so if you have children and grandchildren, you have, by definition, a vested interest, in stability and peace. You're instinctively opposed to violence. You lie awake as the head of household thinking, if there's a home invasion, what do I do? Yeah. Like, that's how your brain Speaker 2: works. Absolutely. You know? Speaker 0: If you don't have that and if you're about Grindr or whatever the what was going on here, then you've got a completely different set of values. Like, it's just a fact. Like, I'm sorry. That's true. Speaker 2: Well, look. I mean, Steve Whitkoff, who is who has helped make the piece there, that this unstable piece, but made a piece, He tells in his sixty minutes piece how he first found common ground with his adversary on the other side was saying, we belong to an unfortunate club where both of our sons have predeceased us. Exactly. And so it's like he found common ground as a dad. But look, I I just say of Speaker 0: Steve Wittkopf, who I know well. Yeah. Steve if you watch Steve Wittkopf's relationship with his two surviving sons, you see, like, where Steve Wittkopf's instincts come from. He's very close to his boys, and one of whom I know well is like a like a genuinely great guy. He reveres his dad. The dad loves the son. Like, that's that's the goal. And Witkoff looks at the world that way. It's like, I have grandchildren. Like, I want I want to continue the good things in this world. I don't wanna blow it up tomorrow. Speaker 2: A 100%. It matters. What we need in The States, man. We need we need somebody look. I live these values. I have a family. I have a stake in the future. I've lived a life. I've lived with a woman. You know? I've we've we've suffered. We've we've survived. We've thrived. And that life experience, you know, watching my mom die in front of me, going in with the moon suit with my dad, you know, seeing kind of the setbacks my grandparents felt, only to see, you know, them ultimately succeed. These are things I every day, I walk in the office on the shoulders of them, but I carry that weight, the shared sacrifice. And and when you go abroad and you're with a culture that has, you know, maybe nothing to do with us, I'm not looking to convert them. I'm looking to find a little bit of humanity common ground. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 2: And that's where you say, look. Parents love their children, okay, in all cultures, and and that's an immediate thing where you can have some respect for life. You know? Look. He is the worst Lindsey Graham is the worst emissary or art real avatar for any of these values, whether it be kind of peace and and The United States values or what he's doing now with engendering, I think, antisemitism. He's actually making Well, that's for Speaker 0: sure. All these advocates advocates for Israel, I mean, from Bebe to Ted Cruz to Lindsay, they're all making people hate Israel. I mean, that is a fact as someone who's never hated speaking for myself, never hated Israel. I vacationed there. But these people are changing in their advocacy. Rabbi butt plug, all of them, they're all making people dislike Israel big time. Speaker 2: Well, I mean, his speech Speaker 0: How was this helping? Speaker 2: His speech was shameful, and it, you know, it should be repudiated to call for violence the way he did against the right, a sitting United States senator in the wake of Charlie Kirk. It's a you know, it it needs the president should distance himself from those remarks. But, you know, here, again, like, he intrudes into, like, women's health. Like, if there was ever one cohort in The United States who should sit this one out, it's a seven year old warmonger who's never shared a life as we can tell with a woman. You know? It's like the he does more damage than good. And with respect to those issues for life, it's like being pro life means also not killing people. I mean, to borrow a little bit from the pope Agree. But, like, having a sensitivity towards that as well. And, you know Speaker 0: Well, why? Because we think human beings are the most valuable thing God created. That's what we believe. And if you don't believe that, you shouldn't be in charge of human beings. Right? Speaker 2: Well, we're committed we are created in God's image. So every time I look. One of the great things my parents did was was name me after Saint Paul. I'm always trying to to walk in his in his way, the instructions. But What a man. You know, that we learned, you know, to have a mutual respect for our common man, to look at the beauty. If you look at a person, you say, look. You're creating there's something amazing about you. It may not be evident on the surface, but I know that there's something. And you you may have had a troubled life, but you can always improve and and to be able to to have that kind of fundamental respect. You know? I come from a long line of of janitors and chambermaids and people did the dirty jobs, and I never felt I never feel like I'm superior to them. I think that that's really the mark of liberalism, progressive government, is that there's a small group of us who know better than the rest of the world how Speaker 0: to live their credential from a credential factory. No. I couldn't couldn't agree more. There's a a real lack of nobility among people like that with Lindsey Graham, a true lack of nobility. And and that's fine, and he's gonna have to answer for that. But to have him in a position of leadership, particularly in a party that, you know, I voted for, don't have much option, actually. Speaker 2: This Not acceptable. Look. We look. This is a post Trump election. This senate term is six years. President Trump, you know, the 2028 trolling stuff is funny, but, like, he's he's out of office in in two years after this election. That's a lame duck president the day after the election, kinda cementing his legacy. And this is where does this movement go? All of us who fought in the in the early trenches, look, that that this whole thing could just be sucked right back into the swamp with the shape shape shifting establishment, really neocon deep state guy, you know, who's who's managed to somehow pull in Trump a little bit or at least the inner circle around Trump. Speaker 0: Do you think it's weird I'm sorry to jump around, but I'm just thinking about reminded us all that Lindsay said on after January 6, we gave you guns. Shoot them all. Of course, none of the protesters had guns. Not not a single gun. No guns, except for the 200 and something undercover FBI agents, all of whom are armed, but no actual protester had a gun. Lindsey Graham is only speaks in Marshall language. Kill them. Crush them. Bomb them. You know, he's a tough guy. Right? He's like some reservist or some fake rank in the military and whatever. But he's terrified, terrified on January 6. He's, like, afraid of unarmed protesters, half of whom are, like, 60 and have diabetes and bad knees, and he's terrified. He coward. I mean, I talked to people, his fellow senators who were there. He was scared shitless. What is that? Speaker 2: Well, you know Speaker 0: The guy who's always calling for violence against other people is a physical coward? Speaker 2: I think he knows what the 2020 was infirm. It was this rigged and stolen election, and he did nothing really for it. He did a lot of pretense, you know, the the famous call. Look, I was there. Okay? What what Paul Dance has is battle scars from every major MAGA battle. I was there in '16 in Pennsylvania in Moon Township when everyone had walked away from the president. They thought he was gonna lose, and we we pulled out the win there. We we brought Pennsylvania over the win column, doubled the vote there, the good people in Allegheny County. And, you know, I was there in '20. I went down to Georgia. I was at the time, I was chief of staff at office of personal management. We should talk a little bit about how project 2025 came to be and how I got to serve in in the Trump admin. But I had been there again in Allegheny County for the day on election day, and, you know, we've been saying those of us in in the admin, I think we got this as long as they don't steal it from us. And thinking, you know, that the RNC and the Trump campaign would have taken corrective protective measures. Well, you know, I was in the White House that evening and in PPO, it's a presidential office of personnel, And we were again getting excited for a period of time there. It seemed like we were gonna pull this out. They actually turned the volume off of the TV and put on some music. And then ultimately, everything slowed down. It was clear that something was totally awry. And ultimately, two days later, I would go on on paid leave, leave my group. I I basically ran this agency called Office of Personnel Management and go down and use my my work as an attorney to help out. But I got down to Georgia on the Friday morning. Thursday night was where they famously started counting ballots in Fulton County in the middle of the night, kinda I decided to take my car from DC and just start driving, and I'd see my wife in South Carolina and the kids and pick up some clothes and just get get there. So I got there by nine in the morning and kinda kicked myself for not flying because who would have known that they were counting ballots? But the bottom line is we were overrun. Okay? That that they had nothing in place. They knew this was coming. And if you dug in a little bit, you could tell that it was almost an inside job. You know, Raffus Raffusberger, the secretary of state, there's something odd with that dude. And and the guy, Gabe Sterling, there's something really off. But they had to be sure and said, you know, this was the cleanest election they had fought before they had finished counting the ballots. So the the secretary of state of Georgia was adverse to the president. Nonetheless, we got down there. There was no infrastructure in place. The president didn't even have a law firm retained. There was no national law firm. Yeah. And this was this was the whole thing that was a debacle, but I seen it with my own eyes. I stood up there. People knew what happened in in that Buckhead is called that's where the GOP headquarters were. You know, all eyes in the whole world had turned to Buckhead, this one office building where I was, and we didn't even have a desk. There wasn't a law firm. I went out and bought myself a computer, sat down there, and it's Saturday of of the election. Both senate seats are now underwater, so the US senate's in the balance as well. And, you know, finally, we're beginning to get some sort of ground control where people are now reinforcements are coming up from Florida, the lawyers, we can kinda get some command and control. And I have to go out and get lunch with a guy at Pizza. I come back, the office is dark. It's just like everyone left. It's like, wait a second. We're in the middle of a presidential election. The thing's obviously kind of rigged and stolen. You think people are working twenty four hours. Like, I've worked in these big law firms in New York. You know? I worked eighteen hour days. Like, we were just humming the whole time. Where was everybody? The office lights are off. They were at the Georgia football game. Go, Dawgs. Yeah. So So Speaker 0: there there there wasn't, like, a gut level commitment to the cause, it sounds like. Speaker 2: No. People had left, and it was like, what is going on here? So I I reached out to to Johnny Mac at at the White House. I said, we need a field general down here. Get me Doug Collins. Get him on you know, and ask the president to put Doug in. And sure enough, they you know, the next day, people had snapped too. They had gotten the word at the White House that everyone walked out. You know, the idea was we're gonna take a breather. I think the word had come down from the RNC headquarters to cut bait on the president in sometime mid Saturday morning. They had the famously Trump victory had, you know, shifted into senate victory, and they cut Trump off. And so he thinks people are fighting all around the country No. Speaker 0: I Speaker 2: remember. While people are walking out on him in real time. Speaker 0: And I'm There's a reason he hired Rudy Giuliani because there was no one else left. Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, Paul Dance is standing in the balance, and and that's where you know, I'm like, what is going on here? That Sunday morning, finally, people kinda began to come in, and it's I kinda liken it to almost like when Christ was crucified and who were the people who's who came first were without fear were the women, and that's where I met MTG for the first time. Met Marjorie Taylor Greene on a Sunday morning in Buckhead, and she could have been up in Washington. She had just won. She could be measuring her her drapes and everything. That woman wanted to get to the bottom of what just happened on Tuesday. That's Speaker 0: what she's like. So it Speaker 2: was her. It was Khalida. It was Jenny Beth Martin. These were the people standing up, and and we had no infrastructure in place. It was basically they had cut bait on the president. So I've been there when everybody gave Speaker 0: up doing at this point? Speaker 2: You know, he was making feckless phone calls or something, and he ultimately had this famous phone call with Raffesberger, which if you had actually been a lawyer, you'd be like, that's the last person you should be getting on the phone call telling the president to get on the phone with because that guy's adverse to us. Yes. They're gonna tape you. You know, they're gonna try to set you up. Don't you understand what went down here? So it it was almost extraordinary that he could kinda pantomime that he was doing something on election integrity. Speaker 0: He was undermining Trump. Speaker 2: Yes. Ultimately, he was leading. I think that this man's MO is when he couldn't frontally attack Trump, he said, I'm gonna infiltrate Trump, and then I'm gonna walk him in down the path of danger. And, like, hey, mister president, why don't you call up the secretary of state and see if you can find some votes? That's a great idea, sir. Why didn't you do that? And it's like it's like a setup artist almost. But, you know, for anybody with their head screwed on, it was it was asking for trouble. And, of course, you know, then j six precipitated after that. And so by the end of of the term there, everybody walked away from the man. And, you know, I was there January 20 at Joint Base Andrews to see president Trump off. Speaker 0: So I have I have got so I just wanna replay what what he said or just say it out loud. After January 6, like, Lindsey just absolutely abandoned Trump, like, immediately. Yeah, he blamed it. He said it'll be a major part of the presidency. It was Trump's fault what happened on January 6. And, of course, now we know with 230 FBI agents in the crowd, maybe it's not that simple. But we don't know that because Lindsey pointed that out. I mean, Lindsey could have, at any point, tried to get to the bottom of how many federal agents were in the crowd on January 6. Everyone knew that was happening. I said it, probably got fired for it, among other things, but it was just obvious from the very beginning that this was a setup. Speaker 2: No. He gave his famous I'm done speech. And, you know, the first part of that speech is interesting because he knocks South Carolina. He he likes to first start out by saying, my state's often the cause of the problem. So first, he throws South Carolina under the bus, and then he basically says he's done with Trump. And, you know, the meanwhile, those of us are, like, in the engine room, like my grandfather trying to keep this ship going, MAGA, keep the US government running, You know, we're in full peak COVID. And, you know, like I say, to have this guy now got full six years in in the senate, got everyone to say vote for him. I mean, I have my neighbors coming up to me and saying, Paul, should we vote for Lindsey Graham? Can you really do that? I mean, that's that's a heinous decision. When you go into the ballot box in 2020 and you're and you look at the Republican line, and it's Lindsey Graham, and you're a Republican. That's why I'm never gonna let that happen to me. Okay? No. No. Speaker 0: Please. Please. Speaker 2: That's why I'm standing up. But, like Speaker 0: because it's just all fake. Okay. So this is my last series of questions, which is, like, I have I asked around before this interview because I'm not a political expert despite being around it my whole life. I don't really understand it that well. I don't understand how Lindsey Graham could have a shot at reelection. I called around. Oh, no. Lindsey's in good shape. I think it's a measure of how much money he has. People assume the more money you have, the more likely you are to win. That's not true, asked Jeb asked Jeb Bush. But he does have institutional support. Like, there are there are office holders in South Carolina who are endorsing him. Right? Speaker 2: Well, not that many. Look. We we are gonna do this. I wanna make clear to people. We we announced in in August 1 or July 30, and our numbers have already doubled. Ultimately, yes, we need to get the financial backing to get people, your listeners, to get behind this. Like, if you You have a Speaker 0: year so we're taping this the first Tuesday in November. So you've Speaker 2: got 06/09/2026 is liberation day for South Korea. Ninth is the primary. Primary. And we are moving up on this guy. If the election were held tomorrow, we'd be in a runoff. Like, South Carolina, if you get less than 50%, it's an automatic runoff state. There's a reason why president Trump is doing his first fundraiser for Lindsey Graham, notwithstanding the fact that this man has 15,000,000 in the bank. Speaker 0: Where in South Carolina is that fundraiser? Speaker 2: Correct. It's in it's in Florida, interestingly. Yes. They're gonna do it on a golf course in Florida Oh, okay. Away from away from the actual South Carolinians. Look. There we need support, I'll be frank, but I think people bemoan the money that Lindsay has, and I I know that I've had confidential discussions with people saying that various, you know, interest groups are ready to come in for this guy to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. Speaker 0: It takes. Speaker 2: Whatever it takes. But, you know, I think I was thinking about the parable of of these three servants, really, and that you need, as Christians, we need to invest our money, you know, in in people who are gonna fight for our values. And that's that's why I'd ask folks out here listening, it's like, invest in our campaign, get behind us. We are our message is really clicking with both the youth, the 30 people who who they need to own a part of America. Not only do we need to end these endless wars, which I'll do right away, but make this life, this American dream affordable again for this generation Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 2: To come let them dream of having a family and actually be able to do it. And then, like I say, get to the bottom of j six, get to the bottom of COVID, get to the bottom of the Russia hoax, get to the bottom of 2020. Let's actually get accountability in government from a guy who who stood at project 2025. And and I changed the world through that, you know, that that as the architect of project twenty twenty five. Speaker 0: Yes. And just stop the humiliation. You know, South Carolina is one of the best states that we have. People move there. I have family who move there. People just like South Carolina. It's great. It's pretty well run, pretty reasonable, beautiful, of course. The Republican primary is the election. Republican's gonna have that sentencing. We know that. So it should be a great Republican. It shouldn't be the worst Republican, probably second worst after Ted Cruz because at least Lindsey is charming. But it shouldn't have the best state shouldn't have the worst senator. Like, this is a humiliation exercise meant to demoralize the rest of us. I really think that. Speaker 2: Well, if you wanna honor Charlie Kirk's memory, this is the best way to do it. Charlie was in South Carolina three weeks before he was killed saying exactly that. Yeah. He said, South Carolina, you need a new senator. And he'd said that, you know, turning point action was gonna be on the tip of the spear of turning out RINO senators and Lindsey Graham. Speaker 0: Well, Charlie and I talked about this topic quite a bit quite a bit until right before he died. Yes. And and so I hope that people will get behind your campaign, you know, because I think it's important that you're obviously much more qualified and much closer to the spirit of most Americans, but it's also just so important to stop this just to say no. Like, this is if you don't stop people like Lindsey Graham, and he can go be on the board of Raytheon and go to bath houses across Eastern Europe, whatever his future might hold, probably a lot more fun than serving in the senate, and and get sober. My gosh. But if you don't stop this, if you just, like, allow the guy to get reelected to the senate at 71 years old with an anti American platform, that's, like, a sign to everybody else that, like, oh, yeah. You can just piss on America. Like, there's nothing that people can do about it. Yeah. There's no changes possible. Speaker 2: This is the barometer for whether MAGA lives or Speaker 0: totally agree with that. Speaker 2: This is this is really look. I built project twenty twenty five. If you like what president Trump's done in these first nine months, it's because I organized couple thousand volunteers under the auspices of the Heritage Foundation, brought together 110 member coalition of the of the right, and basically made these building blocks, these prefabricated policy and personnel to go in and hit the ground running, and that's why he came out gangbusters. And it allowed him to get this head of steam going and get world peace. Like, this is why he's a world beater because we actually prepared. I was I'm the one who was able to use this platform and take my MIT training this, you know I was trained as a city planner in in the vision of Daniel Burnham, who's the famous architect who did did Union Station. It was this notion of we need to make no little plans. We we are saving this republic. We they lack the magic to stir men's hearts. We have to give them a bold vision, and that's what project twenty twenty five was. It allowed the president and now we know so much of what he's doing is coming right out of that book. Speaker 0: For sure, though no one wants to admit it. Yeah. So how can final question. How can people who support the program you just described and think that it's so essential to stop this insanity before we have, like, World War six. How can they support your campaign? Speaker 2: Look. Get get to pauldans.com. You know, we obviously love you to invest in the campaign. Support us if it's $20 a month, if it's a 100, or, you know, if everyone get get behind this. Like, this is the time you need to invest in your country. Lindsey is not a South Carolina problem, he's an American problem. Definitely. And all of us have to drive him out. There's good patriots all over the country. They know what Paul Dance did to build project 2025, and they know that that is why so much of what Trump's doing right now is coming directly from our work. Two, you know, get behind us on the media. If if you can't afford it, like, push out our message, You know? Share it on Facebook. Share it on X. And and prayers, finally, three prayers. We'll take prayers. But this is this is all within our reach. This is gonna happen. I believe you. And we have a a welling up of support, particularly the youth. They really need a future. So many people can't even envision getting out of their garden or apartment or being able to own anything, let alone get married and have a family. That's that's elemental American dream, and that we are sending our kids forward into this is outrageous. I I have to stand up in this moment of time. Look, I'm leaving five kids on this earth one day, and they they need the future that was that was their birthright, and that everyone who laid down and gave that ultimate sacrifice, whether they died on the battlefield or they died building something or they just labored as anonymous woman, they deserve a future in this country, and that's that's what we have to pass on to the kids. Speaker 0: Do you have any billionaire oligarchs backing you? Speaker 2: Well, hopefully, a few of them are listening to this show. But, look, I, you know, I would say Speaker 0: because Lindsay has that. That's one thing he's got. Speaker 2: Look. What Lindsay did Speaker 0: was made a fortune, I don't know, on debt, you know, putting people into slavery or, like, hooking them on gambling or something. You're definitely using your billions to support Lindsey Graham. Speaker 2: Well, look. This man got us a $38,000,000,000,000 breaking point. This country is in physical physical dire straits. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: If we collapse, the whole world goes down with us. This is all these foreign adventures that this man has led us on in the thirty two years of his his endless board cheerleading and the deficit spending, those are coming home to roost. And it's you know, life is tough out there, notwithstanding what some people in the White House are saying. It's expensive. Things have not like, I go to the grocery store every day. You know, I fill up, and and if if it's shocking me, what's it doing to the people who pay check to paycheck? And we have to get real. Like, today's election day. Let's see what happens tonight because the kids and the generation, they're moving left because the left is actually talking about real pocketbook issues. You know, the promise here with Trump was to return the government to the people, and and its time is burning. Like, we need not only action at the justice department and getting answers and actually doing things, but we need to, like, actually stop spending money on these follies abroad and start building America. Let's let's get the Amen. The country of milk and honey flowing here. You got my vote. Thank you, Tucker. Speaker 0: Personally, I appreciate it. Paul Dance, thank you very much. Speaker 2: My pleasure. Thank you, Speaker 0: We've got a new website we hope you will visit. It's called newcommissionnow.com, and it refers to a new nine eleven commission. So we spent months putting together our nine eleven documentary series, and if there's one thing we learned, it's that in fact, there was foreknowledge of the attacks. People knew. The American public deserves to know. We're shocked actually to learn that, to have that confirmed, but it's true. The evidence is overwhelming. The CIA, for example, knew the hijackers were here in The United States. They knew they were planning an act of terror. Speaker 1: In his passport is a visa to go to United States Of America. Speaker 0: A foreign national was caught celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote, to document the event. How do you know there would be an event to document in the first place? Because he had foreknowledge. And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor, shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on nine eleven, as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks. They made money on the nine eleven attacks because they knew they were coming. Who did that? Speaker 2: You have to look at the evidence. Speaker 0: The US government learned the name of that investor, but never released it. Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this, but there isn't actually. And by the way, doesn't matter whether there is or not. The public deserves to know what the hell that was. How did people know ahead of time? Why was no one ever punished for it? Nine eleven commission, the original one, was a fraud. It was fake. Its conclusions were written before the investigation. That's true and it's outrageous. This country needs a new nine eleven commission, one that actually tells the truth that tries to get to the bottom of the story. We can't just move on like nothing happened. Speaker 1: Nine eleven commission Speaker 0: is a cover. Something did happen. We need to force investigation into nine eleven almost twenty five years later. Sorry. Justice demands it. And if you want that, go to newcommissionnow.com to add your name to our petition. We're not getting paid for this. We're doing this because we really mean it. Newcommissionnow.com.
Saved - November 28, 2025 at 11:46 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

We put Piers Morgan’s views on free speech to the ultimate test. https://t.co/pZkMumOhH0

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

In the U.K., you can go to jail for using the F word. No, not that F word. Piers Morgan responds. (0:00) Monologue (21:20) How Has the U.K. Changed? (25:58) Was the U.K.’s Healthcare System a Success? (35:10) Did the West Really Win WWII? (46:14) The Suppression of Free Speech (52:00) Transgenderism (54:16) The F Word Debate (1:00:53) Abortion and Declining Birthrates (1:05:26) The Murder Rates in London (1:07:45) Is the British Economy Collapsing? (1:14:37) The Migrant Invasion (1:15:57) The Global Increase in Homosexuality (1:28:16) Will We See A Revolution in the U.K.? (1:33:28) Foreign Wars Includes paid partnerships.

Saved - November 26, 2025 at 4:27 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

“The Dollar Evaporates at That Point”- Gold Expert Warns of the Coming Global Monetary Reset https://t.co/xGKaevIwJ8

Video Transcript AI Summary
First speaker outlines that 1914, the year the Federal Reserve was created, coincides with the institution of the income tax, and argues these two developments are parts of the same tool. Since 1971, he says, every ill in society has expanded, and now the fruits of that system have come home to roost. He asserts the money system enables certain forces to enact their will without accountability, describing fiat money as giving those forces carte blanche to decide what money is and how much there is. He contends money is at the heart of many problems, alongside the spiritual realm, and emphasizes a strong connection between money and moral/spiritual forces, calling it a dangerous master. Second speaker asks what the US government prices its own gold at, noting that the US is the biggest gold holder. First speaker answers: $42.22 per ounce, which is far below market price (around $3,000). Second speaker asks how that discrepancy is possible. First speaker explains the Fed can choose how to value its assets, either marking to market or to cost, highlighting the Fed’s power to revalue assets on its books. He notes reports that the Fed’s balance sheet has been underwater on paper at times, and that gold on the Fed’s balance sheet can serve as an ace to revalue the balance sheet if needed. He describes it as “magic.” They discuss whether one could buy gold from the US government at $42, and acknowledge people watch the Fed’s balance sheet and market-to-market data. First speaker references James Rickards and his book The Death of Money, noting that the Fed could mark assets to market but not necessarily revalue gold, which could be used to rebalance the balance sheet. They contemplate what would happen to gold prices if the US held enough gold to back a new standard; under a 40% reserve ratio, gold price might range widely to restore a 1:1 parity with the Chinese yuan, possibly between $20,040 and $40,000 per ounce, depending on the balance sheet and reserves. Luke Groman is cited as saying achieving 1:1 parity with the yuan would require about $22,000 per ounce of gold, assuming the claimed gold stock is accurate. First speaker explains that achieving a gold-backed standard could force a reality-based discipline: a revaluation could alter international currency dynamics, reduce the ability to wage wars funded by fiat money, and end hollowing out of the industrial base and unchecked globalism. He argues that a return to an honest money standard would impose norms and transparency, forcing currency and national commitments to be truthful. Second speaker adds that lying is evil, and a society lacking truth is deeply problematic. He closes by expressing gratitude for the discussion and hope that their efforts chip away at the issue.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: It was during the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1914. That that's the same year that the income tax Speaker 1: Well, I did notice that. Speaker 0: Was instituted. So those two things seem to go together. They seem to be two part two parts of the same tool. And so we've watched that tool just expand grotesquely to the point where it is. And since 1971, just every ill that you can conceive of in society has expanded consistently from that date. And so now we're at a point where all of the fruits of that have come home to roost in every possible way. I'm convinced it's directly related to the money. And we can point to lots of other problems, which they are problems. You've got symptoms. You've got other secondary causes. But I think a lot of those symptoms and secondary causes would have never had the power that they do have if it weren't for the ability of certain forces to enact their will using the money system to which they're they're they're untethered to to any outside force or to to anything that should ever hold them account or check their power other than their own determination. Fiat money. We decide what percentage of the Fed's balance sheet should be gold. It used to be 40%. Then it was changed to 20%. Then it was changed to, I think, maybe 10 or 5%. And then finally, they said, whatever amount we want. We'll just call it whatever we want. So they've got carte blanche to decide what money is and how much money there is and to regulate its use in every possible way. So money really is at the heart of maybe almost every problem right next to the spiritual realm. Speaker 1: And they're connected. Speaker 0: And they are directly connected. Yes. There's a reason that there's a force called mammon that's referred to throughout scripture. So, yeah, it's it's a dangerous master. Truly is. Speaker 1: What does the US government, I've read this but I can't recall, price its own gold at? Biggest holder of gold in the world, I think, or supposedly. Speaker 0: Yep. $42.22 per ounce. Speaker 1: Is that less than the market price? Oh, quite a bit less. Like $3,000 less, almost. That's how how do you how do you do that? Speaker 0: Well, the Fed can choose how it wants to value its assets. Can either Speaker 1: So the Fed is magic? Is that what you're saying? Speaker 0: It is. Yeah. Yeah. They can mark their assets to market or they can mark them to cost. They they have the the amazing power to value or revalue different assets on their books. That's part of the magic that we all enjoy. So so, yeah, it's it's it seems undervalued. Now Speaker 1: Can I buy gold from the US government at $42? Is that Speaker 0: possible? Wouldn't Yeah. It be So there there are people who have you know, who watch the value of the Federal Reserve's balance sheet and market to market. Because there is enough information, I think, that people are able to do that. Or you could look at the money supplier or take other barometers of what is in circulation. But there have been a number of times, James Rickards, who is a famous commentator on these topics, he's written a few books about this topic. He describes in one of his books, I believe it's The Death of Money, where he discusses the fact that the the Federal Reserve, technically on paper, marking everything to market has been underwater a couple of times. You know, essentially insolvent. But that that didn't include marking the gold to market or revaluing it to some other price, which may be arbitrary or it may be an actual market price. And so it would appear that the gold on the Fed's balance sheet has always been sort of a standing tool, like an ace in the hole to say, if we need to revalue this asset to rebalance the balance sheet of the Fed, of our currency, then we'll revalue that asset. Speaker 1: What would happen to since The United States is supposedly the world's largest holder of gold, what would happen to the to the gold price if they It did Speaker 0: depends on what metric you would want to use. People talk about the old gold standard under the Federal Reserve where we had a 40% reserve ratio, 40% of the value of the dollar had to be backed by gold. There's other ways to determine it. So if the value of gold were set to say 40% or some other number, it's it's gonna be between maybe 20,040, as high as 40,000 to to get that ratio back. Now many things could happen between now and that point, which could change the the makeup of the balance sheet of the Fed. So who knows where that number would actually end up, but it would be multiples higher of where it is right now. I think it was Luke Gromen who said that if we wanted to get to a one to one parity with Chinese yuan, we would need roughly a $22,000 gold price. And that Per ounce? Per ounce. And and and and that's if we have the amount of gold that we actually say we have. If we don't have that much gold, then the price goes up because the dollar goes down in relation to what gold we do have. So and that seems to be one of Speaker 1: The dollar just evaporates at that point. Speaker 0: Depends how much gold we have in that scenario, but it would be a serious blow to the confidence of other central banks into what is the dollar really worth in some future scenario where international currency settlement gets tethered to gold of some type. And I think that there everybody's preparing for that. Are central banks net purchasers of gold since 2005 and just upped it since 2000 and So a revaluation and a rebalancing has to come for for peace and and for prosperity and for fairness. It's gonna If Speaker 1: you're I mean, if you were actually, as you so wonderfully put it, tethered to reality, gold is reality, if you were tethered to reality, you couldn't have a ton of neocon wars. They've never been popular. They wrecked the country. Everyone kind of hates them. But it doesn't matter what people think because you make up the money supply when you need it. I don't think we would have any of these wars if if we were tethered to gold. Speaker 0: Right. And we probably wouldn't have hollowed out our industrial base. Globalism wouldn't be possible, at least in terms of the American version of globalism without that fiat currency aspect. And and if we wanna have, say, Luke Groman, who you've had on the show here. Speaker 1: Very smart guy. Speaker 0: Yeah. Incredibly smart. And his idea of the revaluation of gold to obtain a parity of Chinese yuan to the US dollar of one to one, That would be good for us as well because the the Chinese yuan is so incredibly cheap compared to the dollar, and I think that's been people have accused China of being a currency manipulator to maintain that artificial cheapness because it makes Chinese imports so cheap, and American exports to China very expensive. So that's helped to fuel a lot of the offshoring of our industrial base to China over the last almost thirty years now, since roughly '97, I think is when that began in earnest. But that that also is sort of a side effect of maybe this fiat currency system that not only are we able to manipulate the world, but maybe other people are also able to use that system that's set up against us. And and and that's probably what's been happening too in in terms of our relationship with China. So I I think there's a lot of problems that we could solve internationally and even domestically if we were to return to some form of an honest money standard, an actual standard that everyone is held to. Yes. A set of norms. And and and that makes everyone forced to deal honestly so that your word is your word and your currency is your currency and we disclose what these things are and we're transparent. That would be a first step towards maybe rectifying so many of the the evil things that have happened. Speaker 1: Well, lying is evil. And if you're in a society that's or you just you can't even get to the truth, then you know you have a huge problem. Anyway, I hope our small effort moves the needle a tiny bit, and I'm grateful to be in it with you. So thank you.
Saved - November 19, 2025 at 11:45 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Dr. Daniel Amen reveals the results of a shocking study on young cannabis users. https://t.co/eV7rcqSr10

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

Once you understand just how destructive cannabis is to young men, it’s hard not to see it as a tool of social control. Dr. Daniel Amen explains. (0:00) How Does Marijuana Affect the Brain? (3:03) The Connection Between Marijuana and Psychosis (12:35) Why Is Brain Damage on the Rise? (15:18) Psychosis and Schizophrenia (21:58) Does Obesity Decrease the Size of Your Brain? (24:45) What Does Marijuana Do to Testosterone Levels? (25:11) Is This Contributing to the Rise of Autism? (31:41) Don't Believe Everything You Think (34:08) Is Marijuana a Medicine? (38:23) Should Marijuana Be Legal? (40:41) Is Marijuana Ruining Your Marriage? (44:51) Does Marijuana Increase Your Risk of Dementia? (55:00) Why Isn’t the Government Sounding the Alarm About Marijuana? (57:02) The Increase in Mushroom Use and Its Risks (1:02:14) What Is Kratom? (1:07:05) AI Is Destroying Your Brain (1:13:40) The Spiritual Impact of an Unhealthy Brain (1:16:10) How Hard Is It to Get Off Marijuana? (1:21:08) How to Protect Your Brain (1:28:48) Did Covid Damage Your Brain? (1:31:28) Can You Reverse Brain Damage? (1:34:31) Why Is There a Rise in Alzheimer's? (1:36:52) How to Manage Your Mind (1:47:20) Is Violence the Result of an Unhealthy Brain? Includes paid partnerships.

Saved - November 18, 2025 at 1:55 PM
reSee.it AI Summary
I notice most young people think marijuana is harmless, but a study says weed lowers blood flow in every brain area. I see this as social control, dulling people and making them easier to manipulate. Dr. Daniel Amen conducted the study and warns youth to stay off the weed; he spoke on Tucker Carlson about harms, the surgery/medical-industrial influence, and more. Watch the full episode below.

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Most young people think marijuana is a harmless drug. But it’s not. A recent study found that weed lowers blood flow in every single area of the brain. Once you understand how destructive this is, it’s hard not to see the devil’s lettuce as a tool for social control. It makes people duller, rendering them easier to manipulate and less likely to fight back. Dr. Daniel Amen is the man who conducted that study, and he has a stern warning for our country’s youth: stay off the weed. @DocAmen joined The Tucker Carlson Show to explain how damaging this drug is, why authorities ignore its harmful effects, how the surgery industry has taken over American medical care, and more. Watch the full episode below:

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

Once you understand just how destructive cannabis is to young men, it’s hard not to see it as a tool of social control. Dr. Daniel Amen explains. (0:00) How Does Marijuana Affect the Brain? (3:03) The Connection Between Marijuana and Psychosis (12:35) Why Is Brain Damage on the Rise? (15:18) Psychosis and Schizophrenia (21:58) Does Obesity Decrease the Size of Your Brain? (24:45) What Does Marijuana Do to Testosterone Levels? (25:11) Is This Contributing to the Rise of Autism? (31:41) Don't Believe Everything You Think (34:08) Is Marijuana a Medicine? (38:23) Should Marijuana Be Legal? (40:41) Is Marijuana Ruining Your Marriage? (44:51) Does Marijuana Increase Your Risk of Dementia? (55:00) Why Isn’t the Government Sounding the Alarm About Marijuana? (57:02) The Increase in Mushroom Use and Its Risks (1:02:14) What Is Kratom? (1:07:05) AI Is Destroying Your Brain (1:13:40) The Spiritual Impact of an Unhealthy Brain (1:16:10) How Hard Is It to Get Off Marijuana? (1:21:08) How to Protect Your Brain (1:28:48) Did Covid Damage Your Brain? (1:31:28) Can You Reverse Brain Damage? (1:34:31) Why Is There a Rise in Alzheimer's? (1:36:52) How to Manage Your Mind (1:47:20) Is Violence the Result of an Unhealthy Brain? Includes paid partnerships.

Saved - November 7, 2025 at 3:41 PM
reSee.it AI Summary
I note that Democrats did well in the election. The GOP should nominate candidates who put America first; Lindsey Graham doesn’t fit the bill. He’s charming, but his views are repugnant—he’s a death worshiper, as shown by his speech at the Republican Jewish Coalition summit. Paul Dans is challenging Graham for the Senate seat. This episode of The Tucker Carlson Show features his opening monologue and an interview with Dans; watch the full episode below.

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

The election went quite well for Democrats. If the GOP wants to change its fortunes, it must nominate candidates who will put America first. Lindsey Graham doesn’t fit the bill. That’s not meant as a personal attack against the senator. He’s a perfectly charming guy. But his views are completely repugnant. He’s a death worshiper. Just watch his speech at last weekend’s Republican Jewish Coalition summit. His eyes lit up as he spoke of America bombing the enemies of other countries. Nothing makes him feel more powerful. The sooner Graham’s ideology is out of Washington, the better. Paul Dans is fighting to make it happen. He’s running for Graham’s Senate seat, and we hope he wins. This episode of The Tucker Carlson Show, featuring Tucker’s opening monologue and an interview with Dans, is available now. Watch the full episode below.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

If Lindsey Graham gets reelected to the US Senate, there’s no reason to have a Republican Party. Here’s how to stop it. (0:00) Monologue (45:23) Why Paul Dans Decided to Run Against Lindsey Graham (1:00:01) How Globalism Destroyed the United States (1:05:45) Republicans Secretly Colluding With Democrats (1:09:55) Lindsey Graham's Failures and Killing Campaign (1:18:57) How Does Lindsey Graham Keep Getting Reelected? (1:24:55) How Much Money Has Lindsey Graham Made Since Being a Senator? (1:27:43) Lindsey Graham's Strange Psychosexual Relationship to Violence (1:42:32) How Lindsey Graham Tried to Undermine Trump in the Fight for Election Integrity (1:44:10) Can Dans Defeat Lindsey Graham? (1:50:09) How Can People Support Dans? Includes paid partnerships.

Saved - October 28, 2025 at 11:47 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

“I hear gunshots go off outside, and I literally jump to the ground!” Nick Fuentes recounts the night a man with a gun, responsible for three murders earlier that day, came to his home in an assassination attempt. https://t.co/4qVdwo7R0C

Video Transcript AI Summary
I’m doing my show like normal, and I’m reaching the end of the show when I see an alert from my Ring doorbell: somebody’s at the front door. I’m live, reading super chats and live chat messages, and I see that this guy has a loaded gun. He’s got a motorcycle helmet and a backpack, a gun drawn, and he’s knocking on the door yelling. I didn’t want to tip him off that I knew he was there, so I kept the show going for about a minute, then wrapped it up quickly. My producer runs in and I ask, who is that? What’s going on? He says, I called the cops. They’re here. The guy’s gone. Then I start getting changed out of my suit, and I hear gunshots go off outside. I jumped to the ground, not knowing what was happening. I step outside after the dust settles and there are about 10 cop cars up and down the street, the whole block locked down, the alley shut down. They tell me to get back inside. We’re not allowed to leave until the morning. That’s how late they were there. At the end of the night, after the cops left, I went out in the very early morning. Did anyone come and explain anything to you? No. Nobody said anything. It’s ridiculous. In the morning, I asked the guy what happened, and he told me the story. It turns out the shooter is a 23-year-old white man, a “white nerd,” short guy, who was at the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign, about two hours south of where I live. He killed three people earlier in the day: his roommate, killed the roommate’s sister, and killed the roommate’s mother. He then got in his car and drove directly to my house, parked outside, got out a .22 pistol and an automatic crossbow (a weird choice), and knocked on my door. He went around the house, tried the back door, tried the front door. The cops pulled up, he took off running through the gangway, hopped the fence, and ran into the neighbor’s house. I guess he went into the neighbor’s basement because the door was unlocked. He was hiding from the police. He shot two of the neighbor’s dogs, which is devastating. He ran back outside, and the cops spotted him. He shot at the cops. The cops shot him in the face, and he died on the spot. What was his motive? They never told me. To this day, I have no idea. There’s no explanation. There was no contact after the incident. The Illinois State Police came by about a week later to retrieve the Ring camera footage of the whole incident, and I downloaded that onto a thumb drive. That’s it. I never heard from the cops, never heard from the government. Not at all. A guy comes to murder you, kills three others and two dogs, and no one bothers to tell you anything? It’s ridiculous.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: I'm doing my show like normal, and I'm reaching the end of the show. And I see out of the corner of my eye, I get an alert from my Ring doorbell camera that somebody's at the front door. And so I'm reading through my super chats. I'm going through live chat messages. Yeah. I'm live. And, you know, I'm working through the messages, and I'm I'm keeping an eye on it. And I see that this guy has a loaded gun. The guy's laugh. Yeah. Well So you're live live, Speaker 1: and you see that there's a guy with a gun outside your door? Speaker 0: Yes. He's got a motorcycle helmet and a backpack. He's got a gun drawn, and he's knocking on the door yelling. And I the thing is I didn't want to tip him off that I knew he was there because I thought I don't want him to get the drop on me or something. You know, I just didn't wanna give him any information about you know? Because I don't know if he's listening to my show, if I start freaking out or cancel the show. I don't know. Maybe he knows more about my movements inside. So I I keep the show going for like a minute, and I wrap it up very quickly. I finish the show. My producer comes running in, and I say, who is that? What's going on? And he goes, oh, I called the cops. They're here. The guy's gone. I said, okay. Good. So I start getting changed out of my suit, and I hear gunshots go off outside. Damn. Yeah. And I literally, like, jumped to the ground because I'm like, I don't know what's happening here. And I step outside for a minute after the the dust kinda settles and the there's, like, 10 cop cars all up and down the street, and they have the whole block locked down. Police tape everywhere. There's like a dozen cops. Like I said, the whole block is shut down. The alley is shut down, and they go get back inside. Get back inside. We have no idea what's going on. We have no idea what happened, and they wouldn't let me or my producer leave until the morning. That's how late they were there. And finally, at the end of the at the end of the night, after all the cops left, I came out in the very early morning. Speaker 1: Did no one come and explain any of this to you? Speaker 0: No. No. Nobody said anything. Yeah. It's ridiculous. And finally, I go out in the morning, and I asked the guy, oh, okay. What happened? He told me the story. It's what turns out that it's it's this young guy. He's 23 years old, white nerd, short guy. He was at U of I, University of Illinois in Urbana Champaign, about two hours south of where I live. He killed three people earlier in the day. He went to his roommate's house, college roommate's house, killed his roommate, killed the sister, the guy's mother, got in his car, and drove directly to my house, parked outside my house, got out a 22 pistol and an automatic crossbow. Weird choice. And he knocked on the door, which is where I saw him. He went around the house. He tried he tried the back door, tried the front door, and the cops pulled up. He took off running through the gangway, hopped the fence, ran into the neighbor's house. I guess he went into the neighbor's basement because the door was unlocked. He was hiding from the police. He shot two of their dogs, which is devastating. He runs back outside, and the cops see him. He shoots at the cops. The cops shot him in the face, and he dies on the spot. Who Speaker 1: what was his motive? Speaker 0: They never told me. To this day, I have no idea. There's no They never told you? Speaker 1: No. So what contact did you have with the police after this? Speaker 0: They came by about a week later. Illinois State Police came to retrieve the ring camera footage of the whole incident. And so they had me download download that onto a thumb drive, and that's it. I never heard from the cops, never heard from the government. Not at all? No. Nothing. A guy comes to murder you. He's murdered three other Speaker 1: people and two dogs. He gets shot to death, and no one bothers to tell you anything? Speaker 0: Nope. Nothing. Is it really Speaker 1: a country at this point? No. I mean Speaker 0: It's ridiculous.
Saved - October 28, 2025 at 8:14 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

We should all be judged as individuals. https://t.co/KD6P4yywYT

Video Transcript AI Summary
The conversation centers on the role of identity politics and how individuals should be judged. The participants oppose broad, collective guilt and emphasize individual worth. Speaker 0 argues against the idea that “all Jews are guilty, or all anybody is guilty of anything,” calling that line of thinking untrue and noting that “God created every person as an individual, not as a group.” They describe this kind of broad attribution as identity politics and push the principle that people should be judged as individuals, with God judging each person accordingly. Speaker 1, identifying as Catholic, expresses strong agreement with the stance on universal love, saying, “I love all people.” They emphasize that, even for those who don’t like them, they must recognize and be capable of loving them, asserting that “We’re required to” do so. However, Speaker 1 offers a substantive disagreement: they contend that neoconservatism and Israel have a connection to Jewishness, asserting that “the state of Israel and the neocons are deeply motivated by that ethnic identity, and their allegiance to Israel proceeds from that.” Speaker 0 counters by labeling the line of thought as belonging to identity politics, comparing it to what they see in Black Lives Matter. They maintain that the objection is not about denying individual differences, but about applying a blanket principle to everyone. Speaker 1 responds that they would never say that all individuals are defined that way, signaling a disagreement about how the claim should be interpreted or applied. The exchange cycles back to the fundamental principle: Speaker 0 reiterates that people should be judged as individuals “by what we do,” and that “God will judge every one of us in that way,” underscoring the expectation that judgments should be individual rather than group-based. Speaker 1 maintains their view that Jewish identity and allegiance can influence political or ideological loyalties, while also affirming a personal commitment to loving all people. The dialogue highlights the tension between recognizing universal equality and acknowledging perceived connections between ethnic/religious identity and political motives.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: What I do think is bad is the all Jews are guilty, or all anybody is guilty of anything, because that's just, like, not true. God created every person as an individual, not as a group. Like, we hate that kind of thinking. Yes. Right? That's identity politics. Speaker 1: As a Catholic, I could not agree more with you. I love all people. Even the ones that don't like us, we have to love them all, and we have to recognize that We're required to. Yes. But I guess my substantive disagreement is the idea that neoconservatism and Israel has nothing to do with Jewishness. Jewish identity, the Jewish religion. Because clearly, the state of Israel and the neocons are deeply motivated by that ethnic identity, and their allegiance to Israel proceeds from that. Speaker 0: Well, this is, you know, just BLM. They're engaging in identity politics. But the problem in your response is it does not apply to every individual. Speaker 1: No, and I would never say that. Speaker 0: Okay. Well, just think it's important to say that, because just that principle that we're all judged as individuals by what we do, and God will judge every one of us in that way, and that's how we're supposed to judge.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

The Nick Fuentes Interview (0:00) The Origins of Nick Fuentes (17:10) The Daily Wire’s Efforts to Destroy Fuentes (35:02) Why Fuentes Decided to Challenge the Conservative Establishment (46:25) Why Did Fuentes Attack Joe Kent? (57:31) Identity Politics (1:01:55) Why Did Fuentes Attack Marjorie Taylor Greene? (1:04:21) Is Fuentes a Fed? (1:12:04) What Does Fuentes Actually Believe? (1:22:31) Fuentes’s Dinner with Ye and Donald Trump (1:29:48) The Assassination Attempt on Fuentes (1:42:28) Why Is Political Violence in America Rising? (1:45:21) Why Fuentes Hates Weed and Alcohol (1:48:10) How Porn Is Destroying Men (1:53:36) Toxic Feminism (2:11:18) What Does America’s Future Look Like? Includes paid partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
Nick Fuentes traces his political formation from high school through his college years and into the America First movement. He grew up in a working-class suburb of Chicago and attended Boston University starting in 2016, bringing a MAGA hat and early conservative-libertarian influences with him. In high school he was drawn to libertarian and Austrian-school economics, consuming material from PragerU and related currents, and he joined the Prager Force on Facebook. Initially, he did not like Trump, viewing him as statist, and preferred Rand Paul and Ted Cruz. He even door-knocked for Cruz in the Illinois primary. His Trump shift began during the 2016 primary season as Trump dominated early contests and the media reaction intensified. Fuentes reasoned that conservatives had to bypass the media to win elections, seeing Trump as a vehicle to break the liberal media monopoly. As he listened to Trump and reflected on immigration, he moved from skepticism toward endorsement, arguing that immigration and the media were the main obstacles to political power and that the solution was to elect Trump, build the wall, and deport illegals so that a constitutional republic could be restored afterward. He cites a moment listening to Mark Levin as a turning point: Levin’s remark about America becoming a majority non-white planted a seed, along with a visual map showing electoral outcomes by race, which Fuentes describes as illustrating the demographic problem. On campus at BU, Fuentes wore the MAGA hat publicly and faced considerable hostility, including verbal abuse and death threats from other students. He filed a police report after incidents in the dining hall and on Twitter. A campus debate he participated in—organized with a member of the Boston YAL (Young Americans for Liberty)—catapulted him into broader attention. After the debate, Cassie Dillon of Daily Wire connected with him; she and others in that circle helped him land a post-debate interview and a right-leaning platform role on Right Side Broadcasting Network (RSBN). This period marks a turning point toward a more explicit America First orientation. Fuentes describes a pivotal moment in January 2017: Trump’s inaugural address stating a new vision will govern with “America first” resonance with his own developing nationalism. Around this time, a clash over U.S. policy toward Israel intensified. Fuentes dissented from some conservative responses to Obama’s abstention on a Security Council resolution condemning settlements, arguing that supporting or condemning Israel in line with foreign policy commitments should not be equated with antisemitism. He published articles and tweets challenging what he saw as neocon influence, including criticism of AIPAC and foreign aid; Ben Shapiro publicly accused him of antisemitism in response to these critiques, which Fuentes interprets as the Daily Wire crowd seeking to shut down dissent on Israel. As his visibility grew, Fuentes encountered extensive pushback from major conservative figures and outlets. He described feeling that conservatives were “censoring” him, being “canceled” by the right, and facing systematic blacklisting and hit pieces—from the ADL, SPLC, and within the conservative ecosystem itself. He says this began in 2017 with his confrontations over Israel and escalated through a firing from RSBN and the end of his relationship with some Daily Wire affiliates after a clip in which he argued about first amendments protections for foreign nationals—comments that Daily Wire reportedly weaponized to attack him as antisemitic or Islamophobic. Fuentes recounts leaving college, dropping out due to the costs and the controversy, and attempting to secure a field-representative job at the Leadership Institute, which he was ultimately disqualified from after revealing an immigration-focused, exclusionary stance. He describes continuing his independent online work, building a YouTube channel from his parents’ basement with a green screen, and treating his isolation as an opportunity to operate outside the traditional conservative establishment. He frames his approach as choosing a “wilderness” path to challenge the establishment from the outside rather than recanting his views and joining the gatekeepers. He describes the pivot to an “America First” platform as moving beyond mere opposition to the Republican establishment: the aim became to push the movement to adopt his America First framework, which he construes as resting on demographic realities and a sincere commitment to national sovereignty and traditional values. He argues that the “gatekeepers”—in his view, Zionist or pro-Israel influence within the conservative media and political world—blocked the emergence of a blunt, consistent non-interventionist and anti-globalist American nationalism. He recounts his relationship with Cassie Dillon and Ben Shapiro as emblematic of the broader dynamic: early mentorship and subsequent repudiation. The discussion shifts to his current ideology and relationships within the America First ecosystem. He states his belief that Israel and neoconservatism are intertwined with Jewish identity and ethnicity in a way that cannot be decoupled from foreign-policy positions. He argues that the state of Israel and the neoconservative project are connected to a broader set of identities and organizational structures that transcend national boundaries, including what he sees as organized Jewish influence. He argues that, for him, this has to be acknowledged as a reality in political analysis, while stressing that he does not advocate blanket hatred of Jews as individuals and that not all Jews share these positions. He emphasizes the difference between identifying with a political program and endorsing antisemitic ideas about a people as a whole. Fuentes discusses the role of personal dynamics with other figures such as Marjorie Taylor Greene, Joe Kent, and Kanye West, noting past tensions as well as areas of alignment. He explains that his opposition to “inclusive populism” messaging emerged from concerns that it softens or dilutes the America First message, and he recounts a strained relationship with Greene after she publicly distanced herself from him in 2022, though he indicates he would support her if she aligns with his positions. Touching on culture and psychology, Fuentes argues that younger generations face a constellation of issues—pornography, weed, gaming, the internet, and a perceived decline in traditional masculinity and family formation. He contends these factors contribute to nihilism and social dysfunction, suggesting that abstention from or moderation of these behaviors could form part of a broader conservative-cultural restoration. He describes a broad concern about the safety of political discourse and the potential for real-world violence, recounting an assassination attempt at his home after a controversial tweet, the subsequent doxxing and public harassment, and the limited or delayed official communication from authorities. He characterizes the experience as illustrating the asymmetries in how political violence is treated and responded to in contemporary discourse. Fuentes concludes with a forward-looking, hardline perspective on policy and governance: if he were president, he says, the U.S. government must crush the opposition on the other side, including harsh enforcement of immigration laws and aggressive action against opposition actors who threaten order. He argues that without such decisive measures, the left will become bolder. He asserts that the core of his vision is America First, a commitment to national sovereignty, and a belief that foreign influence and identity-based political forces must be confronted directly in order to preserve a unified, ethnically conscious, Christian-national framework for the United States. In closing, the interview frames ongoing disagreements, the persistence of censorship and internal conflict within the right, and the persistence of Nick Fuentes as a significant and controversial voice within the America First movement, with a focus on clarifying his beliefs, the experiences that shaped them, and his view of the path forward for American politics.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Nick Fuentes, thank you for doing this. Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you for Speaker 0: having me. I wanted to meet you. I've heard about you. Speaker 1: I've heard about you. Speaker 0: So well, thank you. Want to understand what you believe, and I wanna give you a chance in a minute to just lay it out, not what you're pivoting against, which are a lot of the same thing. You know, I agree with you on some of the things you're pivoting against for sure, but what do you affirmatively believe? So I just wanna stand back and let you explain it. But first, I want to understand how you got to where you are, how you became Nick Fuentes. So here's I'm just this is my understanding of your life arc. And tell me if I'm wrong. You show up at Boston University. You grew up in a suburb of Chicago, kinda working class, suburb of Western Suburb, and you show up at Boston University in the 2016 at the height of the, well, the battle between Trump and Hillary. It's like this kind of pivot point in history, and you show up with a MAGA hat, and you have a Trump hat, and you have, like, basically off the shelf Republican views? Yes. And so describe what the views that you had then, and then describe what happened. Speaker 1: Yeah. So when I was in high school, I was very political. I was reading a lot of the libertarian stuff, Austrian school, Chicago school, economic type literature, because that's what was popular at the time. If you went online in the mid early twenty tens, that's all the conservative content there really was. That was the most extremely online type economics. Well, yeah. Yeah. Basically, kind of the remnant of the Ron Paul revolution. Yes. The young Americans for liberty, PragerU, which kind of skews a little more, I guess, conservative, but very basic small government individualism, libertarian type stuff. Speaker 0: So you you watch PragerU videos? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I was in the Prager force. Speaker 0: What's that? Speaker 1: It's a Facebook group for college kids, and they promote the PragerU videos. Wow. That's what the college students and high school Speaker 0: students were a product of the moment. Absolutely. And how'd you feel about Trump? Speaker 1: Well, initially, I didn't like Trump. When the primary started in 2015, I was I considered him to be a statist Yeah. Which sounds so ridiculous now. Speaker 0: No. A lot of people thought that. Speaker 1: Yeah. And I was a libertarian, so I saw him as a big government, nineteen nineties liberal. He when he was asked about health care, he said, well, we'll take care of everybody. And I said, I'm a Rand Paul guy, Ted Cruz guy. Those were kind of my people back in 2015. Speaker 0: You like Ted Cruz? Speaker 1: I was a cruise missile. Speaker 0: Does Cruz know that? Speaker 1: I don't think so. No. I was actually on his campaign. You're on the Ted Cruz campaign? I don't know if I was on the campaign, but I door knocked in a little village in Chicago in McKinley Park for Ted Cruz. No way. In the Illinois primary. Speaker 0: Did he write you a thank you note? Speaker 1: No. I didn't get a thank you. He lost. So I guess Speaker 0: He did he did in a very humiliating way. So wow. That's wow. That's amazing. So so what happened? Speaker 1: So I, like everybody else in 2016, went through this ideological awakening. And first, I shifted to Trump. And the first realization that I had is it started in 2016 actually. Because the primaries, you know, started in '15 around April or May, Speaker 0: I think, Speaker 1: was the first announcements. And I had very negative feelings about Trump. And like I said, pro Rand Paul, pro Cruz. When the actual Iowa caucus happened and the primaries began, I saw that Trump was dominating. And every night in the Super Tuesday when they had all the big contests one after the other, I remember the media was furious that he was winning one after the other. And I remember thinking to myself, like, structurally, if I'm a libertarian or a conservative and we wanna change the country, we have to win elections. You wanna win elections, you have to bypass the media. I sort of had this realization that the media was really standing in the way. They were the problem. And I had this realization that all the conservatives and Republicans up to that point were afraid to take on the media. They, like Mitt Romney, would cower before them and were so apologetic and so weak. And so initially, I said, you know, I don't I actually don't ideologically agree with Trump at all, but he will destroy the liberal media or at least their monopoly on thought and opinion. Yes. And then a breakthrough can occur. So that was kind of the first hump. And I said, you know, I could get behind Trump because he's a winner. He'll win for our side. And that was kind of the first big thing. And then as I listened to him more and more his speeches and his rhetoric, I started to think about immigration. Speaker 0: Which you hadn't really considered before? Speaker 1: Never. And the reason why is because I was from a 95% white suburb. So the diversity had not really reached my corner of Chicago yet. We were me and my family, not so much my family, they grew up in the city, but growing up in the suburbs, I was insulated from that. So it was just not even it's actually you're gonna love this. This is I don't know if I've ever even said this on an interview before. I was listening to Mark Levin's show. This goes to show how normie I was. Actually? I listen to him every day. You listen to Mark Levin every day? In high school. Yes. Wow. I was a fan. I loved the show, and I actually liked how he was kind of obnoxious and mean to his callers. Yeah. Vicious. And I like that. I thought that was funny. But I'll never forget one show. He goes live and he says, America's becoming a majority non white country. Does anybody think that's a good idea? And I was thinking to myself, yeah, that actually doesn't sound so good. I I didn't really even think that America's becoming majority minority like that. Speaker 0: And So you were radicalized on race by Mark Levin? Yes. Are you making that up? Or that's Speaker 1: That's a real story. Amazing. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 1: He planted the seed at least. And then I saw a graphic on 4chan or Twitter, and I'm sure you've seen something similar. It said, this is what the map looks like, the electoral map. If only men vote, if only women vote, if only whites vote, if only nonwhites vote. And it became very obvious what the electoral problem is. It's demographics. These immigrants are coming here. They're gonna turn Texas blue like they turn California blue. Speaker 0: Yeah. And saw it happen. Speaker 1: Yeah. And, you know, you look at even the opinion polls. These people don't believe in free speech. They don't believe in the constitution. The second amendment is a libertarian. The things that are and it's American. Things that are important to you, they don't believe they don't understand these things. And so I said, that's another political obstacle. You've got the media. You've got immigration. So I'm thinking like, well, we're gonna vote for Ted Cruz. He's gonna be the constitutionalist. We'll vote for Rand Paul. He'll be the libertarian. But what stands in the way of political power for us, it's the media and it's immigration. So I said, well, we gotta get Trump to beat the media, build the wall, deport the illegals. And once we set the country straight, then we can actually have our constitutional republic back. That was kind of the idea. And that's the mindset that I had going into college. Speaker 0: Amazing. So then what happened? Speaker 1: So I go to college, and I'm just, at that point, a huge Trump supporter. And you gotta understand for me, for my generation so I was 18. I turned 18 in August 2016. And to us, Trump amazing. Yeah. Well, because we're like the first generation that was influenced by Trump coming of age in that moment. Speaker 0: No. I say it's amazing because when you're living in something, you don't appreciate its full significance. But to be 18 in August 2016, so this really is as you're forming your views and really your yourself Yes. In the middle of this. Would admit that we are not the most disciplined snackers. When the pantry calls, we answer. It can be cruel. But what if there was a way to snack like you wanna snack and not deal with the consequences? Heaviness, bloating. Well, there may actually be an answer to that. 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If you don't feel like ordering online, stop at your local Sprouts supermarket and pick up a bag. They're good. Speaker 1: It's transformative. And, you know, so for us, he was like the savior of Western civilization. We looked at him as like we and by we, I mean, me and all the online kids, teenagers that supported him, we really believe the hype. Like, Teflon Don, like, he could go into any scenario and win. Like, he was unstoppable, unflappable. Nobody could score points on him. He he just seemed like, you you know, they they said you can't stump the Trump. Like, he could not be stumped. And so we he just had this aura of inevitability, invincibility, and we I loved that. And so I went to Boston University. I got on campus in September, and I was wearing my MAGA hat everywhere, in the dining hall, walking down the street, and it's a city campus. So you're walking down Commonwealth Avenue and, you know, you're in the city of Boston, which is super liberal. And at that time, it's different than it was now. People were getting fired for wearing MAGA hats. People were getting punched in the face. It was like being a Trump supporter was it was out there actually back then. Was It was controversial everywhere, not even, you know, just in liberal Boston. But so I was wearing my hat everywhere, and I was just getting accosted constantly. In the dining hall, people would come up and yell in my face, some black girl in a hijab ran up to me and said, you know what you're supporting? You're racist. This and I'm trying to get my pizza, and I'm trying to get my oatmeal or whatever at the dining hall. This was happening constantly. And so I was going then on Twitter, and I had a small Twitter account with my real name and face, and I had, you know, maybe 200 followers, and I'm posting about my experiences. And I caught the attention of a lot of people on campus for wearing the hat, for posting on Twitter, and they found my Twitter. Speaker 0: Only been there, like, a month? Speaker 1: Less weeks. Maybe three weeks. This is starting to kick up. And I I catch the attention of my peers, and they start going at me on Twitter and giving me death threats. We're gonna kill you. How dare you? If I see you, I'm gonna beat your ass, that kind of thing. And this was my first experience with this. You know, now we're all kinda desensitized to it, but that was my first run-in with, like, you know, this intensity from the left. So I filed a police report. I get real nervous. And, you know, when you're a student, you can't really avoid other people. You're in a dorm room. You're in the you know? So you're vulnerable. And anyway, long story short, so one of these guys from the campus libertarian group, young Americans for liberty, he reaches out to me and says, hey, I'm I'm not gonna say his name, but he goes, I I go to a school in Boston. I'm from YAL. He said, and I'd like to set up a debate with you and one of these people that's been giving you a hard time on campus because they were doing a lot of events. He said, is that something you're interested in? I said, absolutely. And so he goes around and he asks some of the bigger people that are antagonizing me on Twitter, and everybody says no. And he goes, yeah, no one's going for it. I said, well, can you try again? Can you and so he finds one guy, and it turns out to be the student body president of the whole university. Speaker 0: It'd be you. Speaker 1: Yeah. The senior, this liberal douchebag progressive, and he's the student body president of the student government there. And so we set up the debate. It was about a week before the actual election. So I think it was October, November, and they hold it in this auditorium in the in the center of the campus, and, like, 300 people show up. So it turns into, like, this huge and they're all liberal. They all hate my guts. They're heckling me the whole time. They're yelling at me. We do this debate about Trump versus Hillary. And so I'm there and I'm I'm pro Trump and I say, you know, I think Trump's gonna win, and I'm straight up like ripping the Ben Shapiro talking points. I'm saying, you know, it's got everything to do with culture and nothing to do with race and diversity is a problem and all this. And I decisively win the debate. It's like not even close. The debate wraps up, and this girl who I I think I had talked to her on Twitter once or twice comes running up to the stage after the debate, and it's Cassie Dillon. And at this time, she's a fellow at Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro's company. And like I said, I I barely knew her. And she comes running up and she says, oh my gosh. I livestreamed this debate on Periscope on Twitter. She said, and 30,000 people watched it, and you have, like, five job offers. You did incredible. I said, wow. I don't know what to say. That that's great. She goes You're 18 years old. Yes. So it's, like, happening very quickly for me. You know? And she goes, do you wanna do a postgame interview after the debate? I said, sure. And so she asked me about how I thought the debate went and what my views are and things like that. And, you know, very normal stuff. And then at the end, she says, I just got back from doing study abroad in Israel. She goes, and it was amazing. Would you ever take a trip to Israel? And I said, no. I think I got everything I need right here in America. And she goes, oh, okay. And she wraps up the interview, and that was a little bit of foreshadowing. And this begins a relationship, not a romantic relationship, but we we become friends and we start talking. And she's plugged in, like I said, a daily wire. She's talking to people at Right Side Broadcasting Network, the College Republicans. I start to develop this friendship with her. And over time, she lands me this show on Right Side Broadcasting Network. And in this time, I'm really starting to lean into America first. I'm becoming more pro Trump as time goes on. And what really stood out to me was Trump's inaugural address in January 17. So this was just a couple months later. And in Trump's inaugural, he says famously, a new vision will govern our land. It's gonna be only America first. America first. And I said, that's me. Like, that's what I believe. I'm an American nationalist. Speaker 0: Me Speaker 1: too. Fully at this point. Not not even a conservative. And there was one thing that happened just before that that really struck me as strange, and I've told this story before. I'm gonna spend too much time on it, but suffice to say, Barack Obama in the lame duck period. So he he the Democrats lost the election. He's on his way out. There's a resolution in the Security Council condemning the settlements in the West Bank in Israel. And, typically, The US delegation will veto those resolutions condemning Israel. Well, Obama's on his way out. He's got nothing to lose. So The US delegation abstains from the resolution, and it passes. And Fox News and all the pro Israel conservatives are calling him an antisemite. They're saying he hates Jews. He's an antisemite. He hates Israel. And I saw that, and it struck me as strange because it seemed hypocritical. It seemed like how when conservatives would critique anything about race, we got called racist or anything about feminism, we got called sexist. All Obama did was uphold US policy on the West Bank that we've had since '67, which is we don't support the settlements. I said, how is it antisemitic to just be consistent on our US foreign policy, but like I said, which is a Republican Democrat consensus. And I got attacked for this. I wrote a big article about this. I tweeted about it. I tweeted to Ben Shapiro. I said, you know, I've never seen anything on the daily wire that's actually critical of Israel. And he quote tweets me. And at this time, I have a thousand followers on Twitter. How old are you? I'm 18. A freshman. Freshman in college. Yeah. And this is even before I started my show. And I don't know. I probably got a 100 likes on this tweet. It wasn't a viral tweet. He quote tweets me and says, to accuse a Jew of dual loyalty is the surest sign of antisemitism. And, like, this is how it sort of begins. And I see this tweet. And by the way, that was on Christmas Eve in 2016. He immediately called you an antisemite. Mhmm. So I'm driving to Christmas Eve mass with my family, and I see on Twitter, the notification comes up, Ben Shapiro quote tweets me calling me an anti Semite. And I was like, what is this? Like, why is this guy attacking me? You know, because I don't have a platform at this time. I'm not an influential guy or anything. And so then I put out another tweet similar. I said something like, if you're China first, you should live in China. If you're Mexico first, you should live in Mexico. If you're Israel first, maybe you should go live in Israel. And, again, he quote tweets me and says, you're an anti Semite. That same night? This was, I I think, a couple weeks later. Happened a little bit further down the line. And so Were you surprised that he knew you were? Yeah. I was. I was surprised at why he cared. Yeah. Because I'm thinking, how does he even know who I am or what I'm about? And it turned out that Cassie Dillon, she had texted him earlier and she wanted him to take me under his wing. She texted him after that debate and said, you know, you you really like this guy. He's amazing. He did this great debate. She goes, but he's a little too pro Trump. He's a little too Trumpy. And he goes, I'll take a look. And so I guess the two of them were kind of, like, grooming me in a sense. They wanted me to go maybe and be a Daily Wire or maybe looking me as a potential conservative activist or influencer. And so they started paying attention to me, and the more critical of Israel I was, I started to get this really intense pushback from the both of them and from a lot of the people at Daily Wire. Speaker 0: Why do you think so you're an 18 year old college freshman, you're clearly talented, and you're engaged, you're really interested, and you ask not not crazy questions, like, what what is this? Mhmm. And rather than explain it, they just call you a racist, call you an antisemite. Like, that's the first response. That seems like the least effective well, it turned out to be not very effective in your case, but that seems like the least effective thing you could do. Why do you think they did that? Speaker 1: Well, I I think that you have to look at it not in retrospect because hindsight is twenty twenty. And so looking back, you could say they made a terrible mistake because look at sort of what they provoked or what they catalyzed. But at that time, you gotta consider, I'm 18 with no following, with no network. I'm coming from the suburbs of Chicago. My parents didn't go to college. I have no connections. And so for them, it was very easy that if they detected that a promising young guy was gonna become anti Israel in the conservative movement, they could crush that person easily and grind them under the heel. So they sort of were alerted, oh, there's a precocious young guy that isn't on board with Israel. We'll keep an eye on him. And if he gets too vocal or popular, we'll cut him down. We'll crush him. Because at this time, as you know, in 2017, it's a very different time. Twenty sixteen, seventeen, any criticism or dissent on the subject was a death sentence. You became radio radioactive, unhirable, blacklisted, and that's exactly what happened. And basically, from then on, it was just this escalating series of blacklisting, censorship, hit pieces, rumors to try to ostracize me from the movement. 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Can a lot of companies say that? No. They can't. Visit blackrifle.com. Use code Tucker for 30% off your first order. That's blackriflecoffee.com. Code Tucker, or pick it up at your local convenience or grocery store. You will love it. So looking back with that 2020 hindsight, I mean, Ben Shapiro seems like a big part of your political evolution. Yes. You went from a fan slash accolade to an opponent and then just pivoted against everything Yeah. That he believes. Speaker 1: Yeah. It was because it was this new dialectic that Trump forced. Yeah. Trump planted the seed. Speaker 0: And the seed was America first. Yes. So once you accept that, a lot of the way we're doing things becomes impossible to support or justify. Speaker 1: Right. The contradiction becomes apparent. It gets moved to the center, and it becomes unignorable if you're consistent. Speaker 0: So what kind of efforts did they make to make you go away? Speaker 1: So this is a couple of months down the line. You know, first, they would try to dissuade me from asking questions because I was friends with a lot of the Daily Wire writers, not just Cassie Dillon, but many of them many of them were Jewish. And I would ask them point blank. I would say, so why do we give Israel all this money? $3,800,000,000 per year? What what is that for? And they would say, well, you know, there's a really good answer for that, but you're asking it in the wrong way. You're asking it in an antisemitic way. I'd say, I'm just I'm asking for the proof. You know, what's what's the argument there? And so first, it was the sort of, hey, man. Could you kinda tone it down? Maybe just don't bring that up so much. But I was persistent because at this time, I was genuinely inquisitive. I wanted to know, is there an actual reason? And I was actually expecting that there was a really good reason for all of it. And the more that I read, the more that I dug into the subject, the more I found out there's a lot of these neocon Jewish types behind the Iraq war. There's the foreign aid complex, which is really unique. There's APAC, which is this intense foreign lobby where it's bipartisan. It seems to be the only thing that the the parties can agree on. And so it just made me burn more with curiosity. So I I just kept asking them, and eventually they said, you know what? We're not gonna talk to you anymore. And these are my friends. I met them, went to Christmas parties with them, and all of them one day said, you're done. We're blocking you. We're never gonna speak to you again. We're never gonna have you on Speaker 0: our Speaker 1: show. And I said, wow. Like, this this seems like inhuman. I'm struck by how impersonal this is. Like, here, I thought we're friends. We're all conservatives. Maybe we disagree on one issue. Now I'm being canceled by the right. So I was shocked by this. Speaker 0: When was this? Speaker 1: This was February or March 2017. Speaker 0: So you're still a freshman in college? Yes. Do are you even paying attention to college at this point? Speaker 1: No. Not at all. And I my grades started to suffer because I was just really focused on this. Speaker 0: So that's pretty young to get canceled and pretty young to have friendships destroyed over politics. Like, that's usually, you know, like, decades down the line. Speaker 1: Right. What did you do? Well, I just became more emboldened, and so I I took this story on my show. At this time, I was on RSBN, and I had this show, which I named after the inaugural. It's called America First. And I would kind of subtly bring up the Israel topic and say, you know, this is something you're not allowed to talk about. This seems like an apparent contradiction. It's a big problem. And they escalated their attacks. Cassie Dillon would call my boss, who she was friends with, at RSBN every day for weeks saying, you'll never believe what Nick said on his show tonight. It's so racist. It's so bad. You gotta take him off the air. It's gonna make you look bad. And I would then get word from my boss, Joe Seals. He was the founder at Right Side, and he would call me up and say, I don't know what has gotten into Cassie. I thought you guys were friends, but she is calling me every day hysterically demanding that I fire you. And I was like, wow. Like, so it just keeps getting worse. It starts with this, like, they're very weird about the subject, then they don't wanna talk to me, then they're trying to get me fired. And I'm thinking, okay. So clearly, what I'm asking about, there's some truth there that they don't want. Speaker 0: Did any I should have asked you this early. Did anyone during the course of, you know, precancellization say to you, here are the reason. You you're not asking the question correctly, but there are reasons that our foreign aid to Israel is so high. Like, and here's what they are. Speaker 1: They did, but in a very general and vague way. As you know, it's never specific. They would say things like, well, they're they're our partner in The Middle East. They're a democracy in The Middle East. This is very vague. It's rhetorical. And I read the Israel lobby by Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, and they break it down very succinctly that there's no real strategic benefit. Actually, they're a strategic liability. Eastern Mediterranean is not a strategically important region. The intelligence that Israel provides is not useful. Actually, it's detrimental because they frequently lie. The technology we give them, they pass along to the Chinese, which was a big scandal. So so I would give them all this and say, yeah. That's not adding up. And they would say, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you really just can't talk about that. Speaker 0: Your friend said that to you? Yes. Wow. Okay. So what happened to your job? The right side broadcasting gig. Speaker 1: Eventually, I got fired. I got kicked out. Why? Because one of these clips that Cassie Dillon had a problem with, she ran it up the flagpole. She took it to media matters, actually, which is a left wing outfit. They're like a cancel mill. Speaker 0: And Wait. The Daily Wire person took it to media matters? Speaker 1: Yes. Are you sure? I'm 99% sure. Speaker 0: What was the clip? Speaker 1: It was a clip, ironically, where I was talking about the travel ban, the so called Muslim ban. Yeah. And I was defending it, and I said that the First Amendment does not protect foreign nationals. It doesn't protect Salafists, you know, Wahhabas. He's like you know, I said, they're saying that there's a constitutional right for radical Muslims to come here. And I said that, how are they protected by the First Amendment? They're they're foreign nationals. And the the authorial intent of the First Amendment was actually not even to protect that to begin with. You know, it's kind of anti Christendom, radical ideology. So it's something ironically that probably Shapiro and Cassie would agree with, but they recognize the currency that a clip like that would have with the left because the left could say, you're Islamophobic. You're racist. Speaker 0: So she brought that to the left saying, look at this guy. It's not that he's anti Israel, but he's anti Muslim. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: That's very interesting. Yes. And so that clip appears in Media Matters, which at the time, I was the subject of a lot of attacks from them at the time, and people kind of listened to them. Yeah. Including on the right, they listened to them. Yes. So what happened? Speaker 1: So I had to write an apology. My boss called me up and said, you need to apologize for what you said. Speaker 0: For being anti Muslim? Speaker 1: Yes. And so I I I didn't write, I'm sorry, but I I had to write something like, well, I should have chosen my words more carefully and this, that, and the other. And ultimately, then they fired me. Any couple weeks later. Yeah. Speaker 0: What what and what was the pre checks for that? Speaker 1: Well, they wanted to get in the White House press office. They wanted a press pass, and they said it's the stuff you're saying on the show isn't like a good look for right side. It it's they're not gonna let us into the White House if you're with us. Speaker 0: And that way and the but the pressure in this scenario came exclusively from the Daily Wire? Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Because and and here's how I know why. My show got maybe a 100 live viewers every night. Speaker 0: Not a powerhouse show. Speaker 1: No. So the me Media Matters was not onto me. They were put onto me by people in the right that wanted me canceled. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well, that's interesting. So then what do you do? You're failing in school. Your show just got canceled. What's your plan now? Speaker 1: So I dropped out. Speaker 0: Did College. Mhmm. Speaker 1: Yep. And I I hated college, and it was very expensive. Even I had a substantial scholarship, but it was still expensive, and I didn't like it. So my plan was that I was gonna go to a different college. I might work for a year, make some money. And eventually, I got the show back about a month later. They came back, and by popular demand from my 100 viewers who are very dedicated, Right Side offered me the show back. And so I I took the show again over the summer, and then I applied for a job at the Leadership Institute. That was kind of the next big saga. Speaker 0: But you didn't get that job? Speaker 1: No. I did not get the job. Why? Well, I was told because I knew people that worked there that were field representatives there. It was a field representative job. And so I went out for a job training at the July 2017. So after that second semester, and I applied for this field rep job, it was this two week training. I go there, and on the first day of the whole thing, they go around the room of all the prospective applicants. It's like a big tryout basically for two weeks, and they wanted to get everybody to break the ice and know each other. So we did introductions. They said, say your name, how old you are, and why you're a conservative. And at this time, people are not where, let's say, we are right now. They're not America first. They're not any anything like they're not talking about great replacement. That's not on the radar for them. So you go around the room and you hear stuff about small government, free markets, you know, personal responsibility, that sort of thing. And they get to me and I said, well, I'm a conservative because we're losing our civilization because of mass immigration. America doesn't resemble America anymore. France is no longer France. I said, and if we don't conserve the demographics, forget about the rest. That that's what we need to conserve. And I said that, and I was told later on that at that moment, I was immediately disqualified by the people that were running the job training. On what grounds? I said that was too far right. That was too extreme. Speaker 0: Worrying about who lives in your country is far right? Apparently. When we started this show, we were looking for a very specific sponsor. We wanted to find a company that could send us good meat better than anything you could buy in a grocery store that didn't have a lot of weird hormones in it or chemicals, just good meat from The United States. And we found one, and we are proud to partner with them. They're called Meriwether Farms, and they produce all natural beef, and we are proud to be in business with them. We eat it, our viewers have been buying it and loving it, we've got all kinds of positive reviews. 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We came from a relatively affluent suburb. I went to Lyons Township. That's like a very affluent high school. In other words, I didn't wake up as, like, the son of, you know, William Luther Pierce. I wasn't like a skinhead or something. You know? I was like a normal guy that was like, yeah. Like, country's too diverse. We're too pro Israel. Like, this is reasonable. And I was just getting sandbagged for it and blacklisted. And and what's more, nobody cared. Like because I remember going on Twitter and saying, like, you know, why isn't anyone sticking up for me? Where's Dave Rubin? You know, the free speech warrior. Where's he on this one? Where's Shapiro? Where's all these people? And and in some way, they were all sort of complicit in this. So I realized that the conservative movement was completely bankrupt in that way. Yeah. We were absolutely radical. Speaker 0: Well, it it you became mean, let me just say, I'm so familiar with you know, I was much older when it happened to me and much more much more insulated. I was not a college student. I was like 45. So, you know, and I was in a much better place to withstand the pressure. But I do think one and and I wanna this is my main question to you is when you get attacked, when people call you names, like they always call me racist, and I would always think to myself, I'm actually not. Would tell you if I was racist. I'm a little sexist, but I'm not racist. And I never understood why they did that. And then I thought, maybe the point is to make me racist. Where you just get to you get to a point where you're like, well, if you're gonna slander me, then I'll just become the thing you're calling me. I do think that's a feature of human nature, don't you? Mhmm. And if you stare too intently at the accusers, at the, you know, whatever Ben Shapiro's or Mark Levin's or Ted Cruz or whoever it is calling you names, it, like, distorts you, and you actually change and become what they say you are. Have you thought that ever? Do you worry that that happened to you? Speaker 1: No. I don't think it ever did because I I know who I am. I had a very firm grounding of what I'm about, which is that I was deeply Catholic, and I still am, deeply patriotic and pro American, and I don't consider myself temperamentally to be an angry or a hateful person. So I I never, in other words, lost my center. You know, they say this thing about you look into the abyss and the abyss stares back into you. That never really happened to me. I I was frustrated. I was frustrated because I felt like I was being denied a level playing field opportunity, and it it wasn't fair. I felt like I was right. And these people that were basically hypocrites, grifters, not really conservative, they were controlling the conversation, and and as a consequence, they were controlling the Republican movement. And I really perceive this as, an urgent crisis Because if we wanted Trump to deliver America first to realize it, it it had to the Trump movement had to transform the conservative movement to reflect the victory that Trump won. Speaker 0: So I won't keep torturing you with biographical questions, but I do wanna like, so you get your show gets canceled. You drop out of college. You have no money. You decide you wanna work at the Leadership Institute, which is like a conservative think tank of or some organization of long standing in Arlington, Virginia. Mhmm. Can't get the job there because you're worried about immigration. It's all pretty amazing. And then, like, where does that leave you? How did you succeed? Speaker 1: Well, I continued doing my show. I did it independently. Speaker 0: What does that mean? How do you do it? How do you do a show independently? Like, how did you do it? Speaker 1: I started a YouTube channel. Yeah. And I was in my parents' basement, and I put up a green screen. I got my computer webcam, and I just started going live every night in the same way that I did at RSPN. I just did it on my own channel where I had creative control over it. And and at that point, I I basically mounted an attack on the conservative establishment from the outside. I sort of realized that there's sort of two ways you could play this. You could infiltrate the conservative movement. I could recant all my views and apologize and pretend to be one of them and bypass the gatekeepers, the censors. I said, or I could kind of be in the wilderness, and I would be alone, and I would be radioactive. But I could challenge the credibility and legitimacy of the conservative movement and its claim to represent conservatives. And that was kind of the mission was to say, no. The immovable standard is America first. I'm gonna represent it, and the conservative movement is gonna have to move to me. I will not move towards them. And I thought maybe I'll make money and maybe I won't, but I'm gonna try it for a couple of years, and and I'll see how it goes. Speaker 0: So but the the sight picture in your head was enemy is conservative movement. Yes. Do you think do you think that was a good choice? Speaker 1: Yes. Absolutely. Speaker 0: Rather than, like, but why not, like, Antifa or, you know, I I don't know, into the formation league or there are a lot of institutions on the George Soros. Like, why would it be their conservative establishment? Why do you think that was important? Speaker 1: Well, I I kinda took a page from Trump's playbook, which is that you have to in the country, the left was hegemonic over all the institutions, and you have this organized opposition to the left and the Democrats and all the left wing controlled institutions, And the organized opposition comes from movement conservatism, the Republican Party, Fox News, you know, the the sort of constellation of conservative institutions. And I said, the problem is whether you go democrat or you go republican, you're kind of just like getting the same thing. You're getting the establishment effectively. The opposition is basically controlled or moderated. It's not authentic opposition. It's not a true alternative. And so I said, we and by we, I mean, the true America first nationalists, we need to fight for the mantle of the opposition. And then leading the opposition, then we can take the fight to the left as the conservatives, as the republicans, whatever. But first, you have to win that internal battle among the audience that the conservatives have. Because that's really the problem is that they have usurped. The base is extremely conservative, extremely anti left, but the Republican Party, like those that represent them, are are not at all. They're very a lot of them are atheists. A lot of them are gay. A lot of them are feminists. And so I said, like, we we kind of need to rally like Trump did, rally the base against the establishment, and then take the fight to the left as the true alternative. And if you could win that, then you win the country. That that was kind of Trump's model. Speaker 0: What what did you see as, like, the most important gatekeepers that needed to be overturned, pushed aside in order to do this? Speaker 1: It it was the Zionist Jews, like Dave Rubin, like Ben Shapiro, like Dennis Prager. It it was these the guys that were really controlling the media apparatus that seemed to me to be the biggest impediment. Speaker 0: Fox? Fox is not a Jewish business, though. Speaker 1: Well, Rupert Murdoch is an ally of Netanyahu, he's Yeah. And he owns the whole News Corp empire. So and, yeah, he's certainly a part of it also. Speaker 0: I mean, Dave Rubin, though, does he matter? Speaker 1: No. No. Not really. Speaker 0: Right. I mean, Dave Rubin is like I don't know. Do people watch Dave Rubin? Speaker 1: They did back then. I mean because you gotta consider, they they were kind of like the ascendant new media. You know? They represented the next big thing. Speaker 0: I mean and Ben Shapiro seems irrelevant to me now. Speaker 1: Now. But back then, further young, he was Speaker 0: huge. Mhmm. So maybe you won. Speaker 1: Oh, certainly. Speaker 0: Well, it wasn't that long ago that many Americans thought they were inherently safe from the kinds of disasters you hear about all the time in third world countries. A total power loss, for example, or people freezing to death in their own homes. 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Who are the voices who are sincere in their opposition to that, and who have some ability to to change the country's orientation on foreign policy, and those would include Marjorie Taylor Greene, J. D. Vance, Matt Gaetz, me. But you've attacked all of those people. Yeah. Why would you in an almost joke, Joe Kent. Speaker 1: Mhmm. Speaker 0: Those strike me as someone who's really interested in this topic. I'm not that interested in the Jews, but I'm very interested in the foreign policy question. Those seem like the most sincere those seem like the only hope of the country to get away from this destructive, really self destructive cycle. Why attack them? Speaker 1: Well, in short, they attacked me first. Speaker 0: Yeah. But, like, who cares? Speaker 1: Well, let's take Joe Kemp. Speaker 0: I mean, you attacked Speaker 1: me constantly. Well Speaker 0: And I'm like, I don't really give Speaker 1: a shit. Speaker 0: I wanna meet the guy. You Speaker 1: attacked me first too. Speaker 0: No. No. No. But I'm what I'm saying is that I'm not whining about it. I'm just saying, like, so? You know what Speaker 1: I mean? Well, I don't I don't say so because like, take Joe Kent, for instance. I supported Joe Kent, and I talked to Joe Kent. I got introduced to him by Matt Brainard. Matt Brainard went to my conference in 2021. He bought a table. Speaker 0: Is he his campaign manager? Speaker 1: He was. Okay. Or he was a consultant, but he was he worked on the campaign. Yeah. And so I met Matt Brainard. He he liked me a lot. He loved my conference in February 21, which he bought a table at for his organization, Look at America. And in 2021, we and by we, I mean, my nonprofit and myself and my team, we wanted to support America First candidates in the midterms. Like you said, authentic opponents Speaker 0: of Me too. Yeah. And that's how I found Joe Kent. Speaker 1: Yes. And so I I met a lot of the people in that sort of scene. Like Ryan Gerdusky, I know is very supportive of Joe Kent and and other people that are more private, I don't wanna name, but they put me on, not just to Joe Kent, but Patrick Witt in Georgia, Gibbs in Michigan, a lot of different people. And Joe Kent was one of them. And I had a phone call with Joe Kent, and I told him I had my assistant on the phone too, who's Jewish, by the way, just because I want you to know I'm cool like that. You know, I don't judge. But so I'm on the phone with Joe, and I said, look. We support you, and we wanna do everything we can to help you. We wanna have my followers knock on doors for you. We wanna boost your social media. Anything that you need, we wanna help you, I said, and we don't even wanna be publicly associated, I said, because we know that that might hurt you. I said, the only thing that we ask in return is you can't disavow me if the media asks. And you can say whatever you need to say, but you can't disavow. And he said, yeah. I totally agree with you because if we start disavowing each other, then we're just gonna eat each other alive and the left wins. We're in agreement. And a couple months later, Joe tweeted in support of me because I had been banned on all social media. I was on the no fly list. So he said something on Twitter like, you know, Nick Fuentes shouldn't be banned. He should not be censored. A month after that, I put out on Twitter. I said, Joe Kent is one of the most impressive America First candidates that's running in '22. Well, fast forward a whole year later. I do my annual conference, AFPAC, in February 22. Marjorie Taylor Greene attends. It's we had a 200 people, and it got a lot of media attention. And I'm driving home because I'm on the no fly list at this time. I'm driving home from Florida. Speaker 0: Can I ask you pause by no fly list, do you mean not extra scrutiny, but, like, not allowed to fly in airplanes in The United States? Speaker 1: Not allowed to fly. Yes. Speaker 0: How can that how can how old were Speaker 1: you? I was 23. Did you have any felony convictions? Speaker 0: No. Okay. How can I'm not I wasn't even aware that that could happen. How long were you not allowed to fly in airplanes in The United States? Speaker 1: One year. Speaker 0: It's really crazy. Speaker 1: Yeah. I was Sorry. Speaker 0: I just wanna get that up. Speaker 1: No. Yeah. It's brutal. Speaker 0: And you confirmed that you were not allowed to fly in airplanes? Speaker 1: Yes. I have the letter from the TSA. Yeah. I was on the do not board list. Sorry. Speaker 0: Sorry to interrupt you. Speaker 1: No. It's crazy. But so anyway, so I'm I'm driving home from Florida after my conference, and I get people start texting me. Joe Ken is on Twitter, and he says, I condemn Nick Fuentes, especially his views on Israel. That's the tweet. And I texted Joe, and I said, seriously? And he texts me back, and he says, we win by addition, not subtraction. I go, well, you just subtracted me out of the movement. I said, because I don't support you anymore. He goes back for seconds. He goes on Twitter and says, Nick Fuentes and his focus on race and religion does not fit with my message of inclusive populism. Inclusive populism. That doesn't sound like authentic America first. That sounds like bullshit to me. And I don't know. I know he's your friend, but I don't know him that well. And I'm not on the team. Speaker 0: Well, I I so my read on Joe Kent was he's totally sincere. He, like me, has always been committed to separating out, like, foreign policy views from ethnicity, not because I mean, obviously, I'm denounced as an anti Semite every day. Mhmm. Speaker 1: So I Speaker 0: don't I don't really care what ADL thinks of me, but my Christian faith tells me that there's no such thing as blood guilt, and virtue or sin is not inherited. It's not a feature of DNA. So every person must be assessed individually as God assesses each person individually, and that's like a foundational view. So I always thought it's great to criticize and question, like, our relationship with Israel because it's insane, and it hurts us. We get nothing out of it. I completely agree with you there. But the second you're like, well, actually, it's the Jews. First of all, it's against my Christian faith. Like, I just don't believe that, and I never will, period. And second, then it becomes a way to discredit. That's when I was like, this guy's a fed. Mhmm. I was totally convinced you were a fed because I was like, here he's bear hugging like the one sincere guy who lost his wife in Syria thanks to the fucking crazy wars, neocon wars, and he's discredited. He's doing the David Duke. Like, David Duke would always every time I rolled out a new show, he would issue an endorsement of the show. I've never met the guy. What's that? Well, it's the feds. Obviously, he's trying to destroy me by association. Whatever. You see the point? Speaker 1: Yeah. But so let me ask you this. So if I'm supporting Joe Kent, I'm David Duke bear hugging. If I attack Joe Kent, I'm attacking the only sincere America first voices. Speaker 0: Get it. I mean, I do get it, and I well, I just wanna say I love Joe Kent. I don't I can't get into having been denounced by a lot of people I like. I know what that feels like. Mhmm. So I definitely am sympathetic to that. Yeah. But it was denounced by someone, like, last night. I was like, hurt my feelings. You know what I mean? Whichever and I'm gonna say what her name is, but I helped her. I liked her. You know? It's like, why are you denouncing me? Why didn't you call me? Yeah. Right? I get that. I guess the two prob but then on the other hand, like, one of my favorite people in the world is Glenn Greenwald. Mhmm. Speaker 1: Yeah. I love Glenn. Speaker 0: Oh, what a good man. Glenn must have spent, like, ten years attacking me full time. Tucker Carlson is and he was some of his criticism was correct, actually. You know, tool of the neocons endorsing these fucking wars. Like, he was right, but he really hated me. And then when we started to agree on stuff, I was like, you know what? It's not about me. I don't care. Like, I don't want personal pique or my hurt feelings to govern my behavior. I guess that's what I'm saying. I'm not lecturing you. I get it, but I feel like, gay pissed you off. It's in a campaign. He's got 19 consultants. This gets a Nazi. Be careful of him. Like, I don't know. Let it go. Speaker 1: Well and I I totally agree with you, by the way. And and and that's why I don't take it personally at all. Like and I like you. I've said very positive things about you on my show as well. Don't care. And I know, but I I mean to say that my goal is America first. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: It's not about me. It's not about my personality. It's about winning for America, you know? And by winning, I mean, we wanna see our vision realized. But with Joe, for me, it was very specific that he said inclusive populism, and I really didn't like that. Because to me, there were a lot of similar phrases at this time, multiracial working class populism, this kind of stuff. And I said, you know, on some level, we do need to be exclusive, not inclusive. We do need to be right wing. We do need to be Christian. We do, on some level, need to be pro white, not to the exclusion of everybody else, but recognizing that white people have a special heritage here as Americans. And so the reason I opposed him in '22 was not because I was mad, but it was to say America first cannot backslide into this kind of inclusive populism message, which I perceive to be more like GOP slop. And I'll tell you, when he ran again in '24, I did not oppose him. I did not oppose him, and I would have supported him if he had reached out or something like that because for me, it it was very political and professional. I wanted to impose a cost. If you disavow someone because they criticize Israel, if you disavow someone for talking about white people and Christianity, I said, we can't let that slide because and you understand why he did it. Like, I don't on some level, I don't hold it against him in the sense that there is such a strong incentive. It's easy to say, I disavow all these crazy Christians and all these crazy white nationalists because it buys you wiggle room with people that are attacking you. It's like easy to throw them under the bus and say, I'm one of the good guys. And so I said, it's too easy. We need to push in the other direction and say, you should feel less comfortable saying that people shouldn't talk about their race and religion. Maybe you'll think twice next time. And that so I did it for a very specific reason. And Speaker 0: I I I get that. What I do think is bad, just objectively bad and destructive, is the all Jews are guilty or all anybody is guilty of anything, because that's just, like, not true. And we don't believe that as Christians. We I mean, my hero in life is Paul. Because you call him Saint Paul, Saul of Tarsus, a Pharisee Yeah. And meets Jesus and becomes this just incredible man, incredibly brave, smart, loving, like, everything you wanna be as a man, he was. Jew. Yeah. So, like, you know, and God did that to him. So it's like you can't I think that's an and I don't think it's like mushy liberal bullshit, which I hate. Mhmm. And I hate all the language that you're describing. I get why it offends you because it's code for I don't really believe what I'm saying. I Right. I have a PhD in this subject, so I know. But I also think there is, like, a a true, not just principle, but, like, spiritual reality that we have to defend, which is God created every person as an individual, not as a group. No woman gave birth to a community. Like, we hate that kind of thinking. Right? Collectivist thinking like that. That's identity politics. That's what Dave Rubin engages in. That's why Dave is like a just a child. Like, you don't pay any attention to Dave because he's, like, shallow. But we're not gonna be that. Right? Or no? Speaker 1: No. I I completely agree with you. And, you know, like and not to be that guy and say that thing, but, like, my best friend is a Jewish person. No. I here but here's my I guess here's my substantive disagreement because I as a Catholic, I could not agree more with you Yes. In what you're saying. I love all people. Even the ones that don't like us, we have to love them all, and we have to recognize that We're required to. Yes. Yes. And especially Aquinas says the Jews are a witness people, and so they actually have special protections under the law according to Catholic philosophy. But I guess my substantive disagreement, which I've said on the show also, is the idea that neoconservatism and and Israel has nothing to do with Jewishness, Jewish identity, the Jewish religion, because clearly, the state of Israel and the neocons are deeply motivated by that ethnic identity, and their allegiance to Israel proceeds from that. You know, the the plan of Greater Israel, the the blood and soil nationalism of Israel, it stems from this ethno religion, which is Judaism. Speaker 0: Well, this is, you know, just BLM, the new version. This is identity politics. They're engaging in identity politics. I I mean, that's just so obvious to me. It but the problem in your response so you're of I mean, I get what you're saying. Mhmm. But the problem in your response is it does not apply to every individual. Speaker 1: No. And I would never say that. Speaker 0: Okay. Well, I just think it's important to say that not to kind of, like, dodge the accusations against you. My best friends are Jewish. Like, okay. I agree. Embarrassing even though it's probably true, and it's true in my case, actually. But whatever. But because just that principle that we're all judged as individuals by what we do, that our faith, the decisions that we make, the way we live our lives, and God will judge every one of us in that way, and that's how we're supposed to judge. Like, is that I think that's true. Speaker 1: Yeah. And I and I totally agree. But I I guess the disagreement is you you say identity politics like it's a bad thing. I think identity is reality. Speaker 0: Identity is reality. Absolutely. You just can't have a country of 350,000,000 this diverse where it's just like warring ethnicities because then it's just it's I mean, it's Rwanda soon. And, you know, the people with the most force just kill the others, so, like, you can't have that here. Right? Speaker 1: Yeah. And but I I would say specifically as it pertains to you know, you, I think, have said it's it's the neocons. It's the neocons. And I think that neoconservatism, where does it arise from? It arises from Jewish leftists who are mugged by reality when they saw the surprise attack in the Yom Kippur War. Speaker 0: Yeah. That well, that's a lot of it for sure. But then, like, how do you explain Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz, and they're a lot like that. John Bolton. I mean, I've known them all. George W. Bush, like, Karl Rove. I mean, all people I know personally who I've seen be seized by this brain virus, and they're not Jewish. They're Most of them are self described Christians. And then the Christian Zionists who are, well, Christian Zionists. Like, what is that? Right. And I can just say for myself, I dislike them more than anybody. You know? Because, like, what? Because it's Christian heresy, and I'm offended by that as a Christian. That's why. So I don't like, why not like, I'm pissed at the neocons. Very pissed. I've said that a million times. I've been mad since December 2003 when I went to Iraq. And so, like, I went and hassled or hassled asked straightforward questions to Ted Cruz because that seemed like he was a sitting senator who was, like, serving for Israel by his own description. He seemed like a worthy target. I'm not going after MTG Mhmm. Who's, like, the most sincere per like, why not go after Ted Cruz? I don't understand. Speaker 1: Well, again, with Marjorie, I was a friend of hers, Speaker 0: and she Speaker 1: spoke at my conference. And then the day after, she pretended like she didn't know me, and that was in 2022. But it's a Speaker 0: things are it's a continuum. Like, you said yourself, you showed up in college, like, one set of views, they evolve as you interact with reality, as the reality itself changes, as, like, you learn things, you grow, like, whatever people change. Speaker 1: Well and and look. Now that everyone agrees with me, I I will graciously forgive them for being Speaker 0: so hostile. Personal? Like, who cares? Speaker 1: It's not personal for me. Like, with Marjorie, if she wanted to, you know, be aligned or whatever, I I would totally be on board with her. Speaker 0: But where do you disagree with her? Speaker 1: I don't know because I don't know what her new views are. She's really only come around on Israel this year, and I've been talking about this issue for ten years. And Speaker 0: Right. Okay. Alright. You win. But like Speaker 1: No. But it's not but it's not like that. It's just it it's a little it feels like BS to me that and I've said this on Twitter the other day. It's like I got treated like I didn't exist. Speaker 0: Right. I get Speaker 1: I'm canceled for ten years for saying these things. And that's really where all this drama comes from, a time when there was this intense censorship and nobody was on board with this stuff. Like, again, Marjorie, she fired one of my people was working in her office. She fired that guy because someone found out that a groiper was working in her office. And, you know, that guy got his life ruined, and she pretended like she didn't know me and lied and said, I had no idea the conference I was speaking at. She knew exactly what it was, and that's fine. But now that she's on the same page, there's, like, this expectation, like, okay. Well, you know, why why did you have a problem with her in the past? It's like because she was on the other team in the past. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well, so was so was everybody. Yeah. Speaker 1: I mean, so now Speaker 0: now are you. Yeah. I mean, what? I mean, what? Why not? You don't you want it's gotta be bigger than just like us. Right? And it's not I don't think well, I'll speak for myself. I don't feel like I'm at war with the neocons or Israel. It's much bigger than that. It's like you wanna restore America to a place where your grandchildren would enjoy growing up. That's it. Speaker 1: Yeah. Right? Well, and I've and as far as Marjorie So Speaker 0: it's not who cares? I don't you know what I mean? Like, okay. Lots of people hurt my if Dave Rubin called me tonight, which he would never do Mhmm. Though he has my cell, and said, you know, I'm really sorry I called you Hitler. Like, I didn't mean it. You're raising lots of legitimate questions, which I think I sort of agree with or I'm thinking about in a deeper way, I'd be like, great. Yeah. Like, I don't care. Speaker 1: That's and look, Tucker, that's why I'm sitting here. You know? Right. I mean, because we had a contentious dialogue Speaker 0: for one I'm fed. I was Yeah. Speaker 1: And I thought you were a fed. Speaker 0: I was a fed. Yeah. I'm not a fed. But whatever. Don't care what Speaker 1: people Yeah. We showed each other a badge as we know Speaker 0: we're No. But I thought you were a fed because I was like, why not it's not cucking to say you're not talking about all Jews when you oppose a foreign policy position. It's not. It's there's nothing liberal about that. It's just true. That's the Christian position. Okay? And two, why are you attacking, like, the best people and not the worst people? Speaker 1: Well, yeah. I mean, again, he he disavowed me for my views on Israel and said I talk too much about white people and Christianity. And to me, that's like a sincere ideological disagreement. And, you know, same thing with Marjorie. Marjorie fired my guy. She disavowed me. And, you know, and and you worked with Blumenthal on that article, but you called me on the phone. And I we talked. Speaker 0: I mean, I settled it. Like from my pers I mean, this is all so stupid and inside baseball and whatever, but for just for the record, I was like, how who first first of all, who is this kid? I'm working on Fox News. I'm I'm aware there's an Internet, but I'm more out of it than you may appreciate. And I'm like, out of nowhere attacking this I had Joe Kent to my house. Mhmm. I did this interview with him, and I'm always in search of a sincere politician. Not gonna have to agree on everything, but I really believe sincerity is the whole game. Mhmm. If someone's heart is pure, he will be brave. Mhmm. I always have thought that, and it's turned out to be true. Margaret is a perfect example. And because that's all that matters. If you're afraid inside, if you're weak inside, you will crumble when it matters. Mhmm. So I really felt like, wow, Joe I don't agree with him on everything, of course, but I was like, this guy is really sincere. He's like a good person. And then you show up, and you're like, he's a CIA officer, and I'm gonna I mean, he was a CIA contractor, but, like, really, like, crush the guy. And it's like, why, of all people, you you agree on 90% of stuff? Mhmm. You know? That was my view. And I was like, well, clearly, this kid's a Fed. Speaker 1: Right. But you didn't know the whole story. Speaker 0: I did. Yeah. Absolutely right. Speaker 1: And and look. And now that and I wanna be I'm not trying to be combative. I think Speaker 0: that Go ahead. I'm not you're covering my feelings. I mean No. Speaker 1: I mean, here here's what I'm trying to say is now that Marjorie is pushing in the right direction, I absolutely support everything she's saying, and I've not been critical of her at all this year. Yep. Because I think that what she's doing is extremely courageous, and I think you're right. She is sincere. Speaker 0: So it sounds like your not to put words in your mouth, but your just your life experience has left you so stung by the Republican establishment. You've you don't you don't trust anybody, it sounds like. Speaker 1: Well, no. I mean, the these people attacked me when the rules were different, and now they got better. And now I'm good with them. I mean, I'm I'm willing to be good with them, but I think that I don't know if Marjorie still has a problem with me or not. Speaker 0: I don't know. I don't know. I do know, though, and this is the last criticism I will level, and this maybe not even your fault, but I do know that, you know, the coordinated attacks against totally reasonable questions about what's in America's interest and what's not Speaker 1: Mhmm. Speaker 0: Those are all coordinated by the Israeli government. It's all come to light now. And they're against me. I've always thought I have the most world's most moderate position on Israel. Don't hate Israel. Just don't want to get involved in their wars. Don't want to pay for this. Don't want to pay for abortion on demand in a foreign country. Sorry. When we're cutting food stamps on our own, like, that's outrageous. It's not America first. That's my view. Not embarrassed of it at all. They are totally determined to take me out, I think because I'm reasonable. Who would disagree with that? And call me all these names, most dangerous anti Semite. I'm not even an anti Semite. And they're not doing that to you because, this is my view. Mhmm. And that's not initially your fault. Mhmm. But because they're like, Fuentes discredits the reasonable people because he's always banging on about the Jews, the Jews. And so he makes everyone else look like a Nazi. And so it's like he's playing a pretty valuable role in the same way that Israel has always funded extremism throughout The Middle East, including Hamas, because it discredits the reasonable people. That's a fact. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I I would just say disagree. I mean, you know, because you say you said the other day, they like me. I don't know what you're talking about when you say that because Well, I don't let know. Me just kinda reflect that. The ADL I'm Speaker 0: not saying you have anything to do with this. I'm just saying I noticed the phenomenon. Speaker 1: Totally. And I I just reject that because they have been messing with me for my entire adult life. I mean The ADL? The ADL got me banned on YouTube. The SPLC posted my house on their website. This What do Speaker 0: you mean posted your house? Speaker 1: They posted my a photo of my house on their website. How can they do that? I guess that's a free speech thing. Speaker 0: The SPLC posted a picture of your house on their website? Speaker 1: Yes. When? In 2022. Actually? Yes. They wrote an article. They said Nick Fuentes bought a building in this city, and they said we interviewed his neighbors and property records reveal this and that. And on the front page, the picture for the article is my house where I live. Speaker 0: That's crazy. And then someone showed up with a gun and tried to kill you at that house. Yes. Speaker 1: So that's why I say, you know, you say, well, they're not doing this to you. It's like the ZOA, the SPLC, the ADL, the Daily Wire. All these groups have been on me for years. So that's news to me if they're really endorsing my activities. Speaker 0: It could just be my perception. Mhmm. But I guess what I'm saying is, as someone who thinks his own views are, like, completely reasonable, pass every smell test, you could x-ray my soul, I don't think there's a lot of hate in there. And to the extent that they do make me feel hateful, ful, the people who attack me, I do, like, say prayers about it. I don't we're not allowed to hate people as we forgive those who trespass against us. That's, like, our core prayer. So I just feel like it's the I don't know. Am I being paranoid? I feel like going on about the Jews, like, helps the neo cons. Well, what Speaker 1: what about my views do you think are unreasonable, if yours are reasonable? Speaker 0: I think, again, I just I don't think it's cucky. I think it's reality to say that guilt is not inherited. Blood guilt is bad. One of the reasons that I'm mad about Gaza is because the Israeli position is everyone who lives in Gaza is a terrorist because of how they were born, including the women and their children. That's not a Western view. That's an Eastern view. That's a non Christian that's totally incompatible with Christianity and Western civilization. They say, Oh, we're the offenders of Western civilization. Not with that attitude. You're not. Collective punishment is the enemy of Western civilization. Yeah. And so I hate that attitude. It's genocidal. The current claims that I'm a cancer, you know, from Ben Shapiro, whatever, we need to be excised from the body of conservatism is a genocidal position, that it basically encourages violence, as they well know. The whole thing, I hate. Mhmm. So, like, anytime you say a whole group of people is responsible for the sins of some of its members, like, I'm out. Speaker 1: Yeah. But that's not my view. Speaker 0: It's not. Okay. So what are so tell me your views. Like, rather than you're one of those people. One of reasons I wanted to meet you is you're one of those people who is defined by clips. Yes. And I'm one of those people also. Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Speaker 0: So I get it. So I'm gonna just shut up, and you tell me what you actually believe. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well and and listen. I mean, and I appreciate you saying that because it's that's just a reality of the media environment we're in. So if you I don't expect you to know all my views. But, I mean, as far as the Jews are concerned, I think that, like I said, you cannot actually divorce Israel and the neocons and all all those things that you talk about from Jewishness, ethnicity, religion, identity. And let me give you, like, a perfect example. So you say on your show that we need to treat Israel like any other country, and I sort of understand that in principle because Israel is another foreign country. Yeah. But Israel is unlike every other country in the sense that because the Jewish people are in a diaspora all over the world, there are significant numbers of Jews in Europe, but also in The United States. And because of their unique heritage and story, which is that they're a stateless people, they're unassimilable. They resist assimilation for thousands of years, and I think that's a good thing. And now they have this territory in Israel. There's a deep religious affection for the state. It's bound up in their identity, the story of the exodus from Egypt, the promise of the land, all these things. So let's say in The United States, for example, somebody like a Sheldon Adelson. He's not Israeli. Is he an ideological neocon? Does he believe in the promise of democratic globalism? I don't think necessarily. His heart is in Israel, and it's because he is a proud Jewish person. And I guess what I'm saying is that if you are a Jewish person in America, you're sort of and, again, it's not because they're born, but it's sort of a rational self interest politically to say, I'm a minority. I'm a religious ethnic minority. This is not really my home. My ancestral home is in Israel. There's, like, a natural affinity that Jews have for Israel, and I would say on top of that, for the international Jewish community. They're extremely organized, and many of them are critical of Israel or Israel's current government or the project of Israel. But I guess what they have in common, unlike, let's say, like, Singapore, for example, is that they have this international community across borders, extremely organized, that is putting the interests of themselves before the interests of their home country. And there's, like, there's no other country that has a similar arrangement like that. No other country has a strong identity like that. This religious blood and soil conviction, this history of being in the diaspora, stateless, wandering, persecuted, and in particular, the historic animosity between the Jewish people and the Europeans. They hate the Romans because the Romans destroyed the temple. That's why Eric Weinstein goes to the arch of Titus and gives it the finger and takes a picture. We don't think like that as Americans and white people. We don't think about the Roman empire in two thousand years ago. They do. And and so I I guess that's really and and I don't think that's me saying the Jews, the Jews, Jews. I don't think that's me being hateful. I don't think that's me being collectivist. I think that's understanding that identity politics, whether you love it or hate it, whatever you feel about it, it's a reality that we live in a world of Jews and Christians, of whites and blacks. These identities mean something to us, and they mean things to each other, and we we can't sort of wish them away. And it feels like white people and Christians are the only ones that do that. Speaker 0: There's no question about that, your last point, for sure. One of the reasons they do that is because they've been taught to hate themselves, of course, since the Second World War. Another reason is, however, the reality of a multiethnic country requires you to sort of set aside community or group interests in favor of corporate interests, universal interests, national interests. And you have to do that or else it doesn't work. And so, you know, I agree those attitudes. I mean, certainly, in other parts of the world, people think this way, but you can't have that here. And so it's just important to remind everybody that, yeah, you know, things may be generally true, but, like, again, they're not always true. And there are people who just strongly disagree. And by the way, in the specific case of Israel, there are a ton of Orthodox who I know who are opposed to the state of Israel. They're just they're more Jewish than Dave Rubin, a lot more, and yet they oppose it. Jeff Sachs is, like, the most or a wonderful man, the most art Jewish, the most articulate kind of critic of the state of Israel that I'm aware of. So, like, I don't know. That's that's just meaningful. You you can't if it's if everything is inherited, then there's no hope for the continuation of America. Mhmm. Does that do you see that? Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't and I don't think it's genetically inherited. And and what you're saying about putting aside the tribal interest for the corporate interest, that's absolutely the case, and that's the only way the country's gonna stay together. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 1: That's my concern. And I absolutely agree with you. I would say, though, that the main challenge to that, a big challenge to that is organized Jewry in America. I don't think Bill Ackman is capable of that. I don't think Charl Naidleson is capable of that. I don't think Joram Mazzoni is capable of that for that matter. And and many other, you know, on the right and the left. And I see it I see Jewishness as the common denominator. And and you're right. It's not not all Jewish people feel the same way. I no one would say that, but that does seem to be the common denominator, and I just feel like it needs to be called out explicitly. And I like what you said if the other day, if you're serving in another country's military or have dual citizenship, you you really can't be a part of this project. Speaker 0: Well, that's just and that's an easy one, but I am much more comfortable as a Christian and an American keeping it on that level because, you know, it's easy to just set rules that universal rules that apply to everyone, not just the Jews Christians or the anybody, just like Americans, can only serve in the US military Mhmm. Or they lose their passport. I mean, I don't know. That's not hard. And I don't know. Why not why don't I just say that? Say what? That. Why not make every statement about how Americans ought to behave applicable to all Americans? Like, it's the defensive universal values that will hold the country together and emphasis on procular group values that will break it apart inevitably? Speaker 1: Because it's a this is a particular issue, and it's acute. Like I said, I think they are unique in that way. I think that's a unique issue, especially in the Republican Party, especially in the conservative scene. And, you know, the this is Speaker 0: So how would you like this all to be resolved? Speaker 1: What I would like is for the US government to not be influenced by these kinds of foreign allegiances, not with money that comes from, you know, American citizens like Sheldon Adelson, not from foreign lobbyists. So, I mean, in terms of tangible things, I don't think we disagree on any of it, like registering APAC and FARA, banning dual citizenship. Like, I'm basically in Speaker 0: 80% of the public agrees with those things. So that's kind of what gets me a little bit annoyed. It's like these are like America First, the concept, it's popular, self evidently true idea you could have. Like, don't let foreign powers, especially tiny ones far away, control your country. Like, of course not. Mhmm. Everyone agrees with that on both sides. Yeah. So the trick is not to let that idea get subverted. Does that make sense? Speaker 1: Yeah. And I'm I think we agree on that. Speaker 0: But it's subverted when they're like, that's hate. Speaker 1: No. That's hate. It's not hate. Yeah. Well and, you know, here's what I will say. I think that there is increasingly a contingent because what you're talking about exists. When you say that there are people that legitimately detract from this with there is legitimate racial hatred out there. Big time. And it's growing. And I know. People on our side are afraid to talk about it because they know like you said, they're gonna get called a cock or a squish or whatever. And I agree with you. The people that are detracting from that need to be called out, and I think there should be no harbor for cruelty, hatred, prejudice, those kinds Speaker 0: of things. And some of them I'm sorry to be a conspiracy nut. I really try not to be a conspiracy because it's embarrassing. You know? But after January 6 and just finding out the number of FBI personnel in the crowd, it's like and I've just seen this. David Duke is a great example. Some of these are the Charlottesville rally. Mhmm. Yeah. Had a bunch of feds there being like, we're white supremacists. We hate the blacks. You know? Using the n word, whatever. You know? It's like, that's not real. Like, there is some of that going on. Don't you think? Speaker 1: I think that I think that there's a lot of sincere people. Well, for sure. Speaker 0: Oh, I Speaker 1: completely agree. You know? And they're just numbskulls, and some of them are legitimately they see the opening that there's legitimate critique of this, and they see an opening to air out their grievances. They get a license to they think it's okay now. And and I do think it's important to differentiate and say that fundamentally I guess the word that I would use, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, is reassurance because I think there's a legitimate there is legitimate need to reassure people. And this is kinda what I've been doing on these podcasts that we don't wanna harm anybody. We don't wanna kill anybody. We don't wanna harm anybody. We just wanna put America first. And and I guess, you know, to the extent that I've been taken out of context over the years or things like that, I'm trying to set the record straight and say, you know, and I appreciate you've given me this opportunity. These are my real views. I'm not one of those haters, let's say. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well, I think people should be allowed to describe what they think. Mhmm. I mean, that's, like, a basic human autonomy question. Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, if I wanna Speaker 0: know what you think, I should just ask you and let you talk. Mhmm. Right? Speaker 1: Yeah. So what's gonna who's gonna Speaker 0: be president? Who should be president next? Speaker 1: Who should be president? Well, yay. Of course. Kanye. Speaker 0: You had dinner with Trump. I did. And Kanye. Yes. What did you think of that? Speaker 1: It was surreal because those are my two heroes. Those are my two, like, number one heroes of all time. I've always been a Kanye West fan. Speaker 0: You like the music first? Speaker 1: Yes. The music, the fashion, everything. Really? Yes. Do you wear Speaker 0: those weird one piece shoes? Speaker 1: I do. You actually do? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Like, in public? Yes. You don't think that's cool? Speaker 0: No. I do. I I don't know what I think. Speaker 1: I'll get you some. Speaker 0: I've worn the same clothes since high school. Don't ask me about clothes. I'm not good at that at all. That's hilarious. So but you so you've always been a fan. Oh, yeah. Huge fan. You described your love for Trump, like, sincere Yes. Childhood love for Trump. So what was it like to find yourself at dinner with them? Speaker 1: It would I mean, it was funny because it was literally Thanksgiving dinner. It was three days before Thanksgiving. So not only was it dinner, but it's I'm having Thanksgiving dinner with Ye and Trump at the same table, and these are like my heroes. And, I mean, the way that it went was sort of interesting. Ye is sort of shy. He deeply admires Trump. He loves Trump. And I like that about him because Yeh really admires anybody that's an industrialist. He loves builders, visionaries, architects. He's very into that. So he has a deep regard for Trump. And so at the beginning, it was a little awkward because he wouldn't talk, and he was sort of shy. Yay. Yes. Which is surprising, right, because he's so outspoken. But Trump was trying to get him to talk, and he was it was it was kinda like a boomer moment because Trump was trying to get him to talk about, like, opportunity zones. He was giving them, like, the black voter pitch, you know, the black Republican. Really? Yeah. And I was like, dude, like, he's not that kind of Republican, to say the least. You know? Fair. At this point, I think people So Speaker 0: what were you saying? Speaker 1: Well so eventually, you know, Trump didn't have a lot of luck with him, so he's kinda fielding the table, and he's talking to me. Speaker 0: And Trump does like other people to talk. Speaker 1: Yes. Well, he likes to talk too. He does, Speaker 0: for sure. Speaker 1: But he asked questions Yeah. He does. More than you would think. Well, he's a great he's a good guy fundamentally. Yeah. He's a very warm guy. So he was asking everybody, you know, what's up and who are you? And we got to talking. And, you know, I I guess it was going too well because I was being very complimentary of Trump. And Yeh was kinda kicking me and saying, like, you know, a couple days prior, we were talking about if Trump and Yeh wind up on the debate stage, what is that gonna look like? And I was coaching Ye, like, these are his weak areas. Like, this is where we gotta attack Trump. And so Ye was like, tell him what you were saying the other day. Tell him what you're saying last night. And I was like, dude, that's our playbook. Like, we don't wanna blow up our and Trump was like, go ahead. Don't be bashful. Tell tell me. What is it? And I said, you know what? I said I said, I think you're one of the greatest living Americans. I said, I I I'm a young guy. I said, I really have nothing to say other than thank you. I have nothing but gratitude for what you've done for the country. I said, it's really not my place, you know, to to give you advice or correct you. And he said, no. No. Don't be bashful. Tell me. And the story that I brought up was this was really what sent me. In the first Fox News debate in 2015 in the Republican primary Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: Brett Bear, the first question, said, raise your hand if you will not pledge to support the eventual nominee. Yes. And Trump raised his hand. Because that's what he was saying. He said, you know, if I don't win, I'll run independent, and I'll make Republicans lose. And so I brought that up, and I told that story, and I said, you know, I said, I feel like what was inspiring in '16 is that you were willing to let the republican establishment lose. Like, you were serious about blowing them up such that you are not gonna say like Pat Buchanan, who I respect, But Sam Francis acknowledged that was one of his great mistakes was ultimately endorsing Bush. I said, it showed you were serious. You were playing to win because you said I will let this Republican party crash and burn. I wanna run as the Republican, but if I can't, I'll run independent. I said, and that's how I knew you were serious, and that's how I knew you were the guy. I said, and I feel like lately this is right after Ronald McDaniel became the head of the RNC again. I was like, I feel like lately, you're just behind all these people. I said, we're not here for Kevin McCarthy. We're not here for Ronald McDaniel or Mitch McConnell. I said, we are here for you. Like, we will die for you. We are loyal to you. I said, and when you did that, that showed you could win and we rallied. I said, so I I wanna see more like that. I wanna see you hit DeSantis, let's say, who is running against him. And he was like, oh, okay. He goes, oh, so you like that? It was right after he called them to Sanctimonious. Yeah. I said, that was awesome. You should have kept hitting him. He's like, oh, you like that? He goes, this guy's hardcore. I like this guy he was saying about me. And so I was trying to just get, like, get his mojo back, you know, and, you know, gas him up a little bit. And so that that's how it went between me and him. Speaker 0: And what was Ye saying at this point? Speaker 1: Well, he he was sort of he was beaming with pride because Trump turns to him and says, who is this guy? This guy's great. And Ye was like, right? And I was like, this is just amazing. Speaker 0: Do you call your parents from the parking lot? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You'll never believe. Speaker 0: Yeah. I try never to think, like, how will this be perceived? It's better just to, like, be as honest as you can be all the time. And, you know, and honest people will respond, agree or disagree, but they'll they'll they'll feel your sincerity and your honesty. But there are always people who are gonna, like, distort it. And I recounted the basically, the Christian gospel at Charlie Kirk's memorial service, and everyone's like, you're an anti Semite. I I literally didn't have one thought about Jewish people. It had nothing to do with that. It was whatever. So and we but I was thinking about this conversation, which I'm sure I can't imagine what the in the ways that it'll be distorted, but I I do hope that people who wanna learn what's happening and who you are will watch the whole thing. It's probably naive hope that it won't be reduced to whatever you're saying something naughty and me laughing and see, they're both Nazis. I mean, you know that's gonna happen, of course. But I'm willing to take that risk because I just think it's important to know you're clearly ascendant. You're enormously talented. You're more talented than I am, for sure, as a talker. So and they've there have been a lot of attempts to silence you, and it hasn't worked. So my calculation always be as blunt as I can be. It's like, Jordan, wanna have Fuentes on. Everyone's gonna be like, you, but you're a Nazi just like Fuentes. Okay. But then I'm like, I don't think Fuentes is going away. Ben Shapiro tried to, like, strangle him in the crib in college, and now he's bigger than ever. So it probably would just be worth hearing what Nick Fuentes thinks. I just wanna be transparent about my my motives here. Yeah. So those are my motives. Let me ask you. I referred earlier to the assassination attempt against you, and it's very fashionable, you know, among, like, the permanent victim class. Like, every, you know, BLM leader was, oh, they're trying to kill me, or Seth whatever from the Babylon Bee. People are trying to kill me, and people use threats against them, which are, like, daily for a lot of us, as a way to kind of make themselves unassailable or immune from criticism Mhmm. Or to attack their enemies. Your words inspired violence. What is stochastic terror? I can't even pronounce it. You know? It's like some academic term, whatever. But you had a real assassination attempt, like an actual one, can which got no publicity that I recall. What happened? Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, it was it was after the election last year. I put out this tweet, and I said, your body my choice on election night. And, you know, I wasn't look. I'm not gonna apologize for it, but I thought it was, like, a weak joke. It's, a lame joke. It's kinda, like, the most obvious kind Speaker 0: of phrase. College joke. Speaker 1: Yeah. It's kinda funny. So I wasn't had other good jokes that night, but that was, like, the one that caught on because I just think it captured the imagination of liberals who were like, it's over for us, Speaker 0: you know, which Speaker 1: it kind of is, you know, but in some ways. But so I I put that out there. I didn't even vote for Trump, but I put that tweet out. Speaker 0: Vote for? Speaker 1: I didn't vote at all. I just recused myself. But that that's just what makes it ironic because I became, in some ways, emblematic of the election even though I didn't participate. But so it got a 100,000,000 impressions on Twitter, and and people were saying on the news that kids were saying it in school. It was on, like, the news that in middle schools and high schools, the boys were saying that to the girls. Your body, my choice. So it became this thing where it's like, he's creating this toxic environment for women. So the Internet lost its mind, and people then started posting my address online because they were so unhappy with the tweet. And so on TikTok and on Twitter, a screenshot of my address, my phone number, all my personal information, it went viral. And and when I say viral, I mean, were multiple tweets that got 20,000,000 views with my whole readout, all my information. Speaker 0: Like your actual address where you spend the night? Speaker 1: Yes. Where I where I live, where I do my show, all of it. Speaker 0: Damn. Did you know that? Speaker 1: Yeah. I started to see it. So the election Tuesday, obviously, it was, like, Thursday that my address starts blowing up. I was gonna do a show Friday, and someone shows up to my house. Some some weird looking guy shows up to my house and just walks through the yard, walks through the gangway into the backyard, and is just circling my house and then goes away. So we call the cops, me and my producer, and we said, maybe we shouldn't do a show tonight. And that weekend, we hired private security just for the weekend, like, 200 people. Speaker 0: Have security? No. No. Speaker 1: I don't have security. Well, I didn't then. Speaker 0: Of any kind? Speaker 1: Of any I didn't have cameras or anything even. I had nothing. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 1: I was raw dogging it. Yeah. Which was what was not smart, maybe, but never had a problem like that. Speaker 0: I've always lived that way too. Speaker 1: Yeah. But so that weekend, we hired a security guard just to park his car outside the house and monitor things. Literally, 200 people came. Speaker 0: To your house? Speaker 1: Yes. Not all at once, but one after the other. Driving by, yelling, walking by, throwing eggs, multiple people threw eggs in my house, ordering pizzas, ordering DoorDash, what you know, whatever, walking through the gangway. It was like a war zone. Like, the security guard was yelling at people all night, and it went on all weekend. And then it went on throughout the next week and the next weekend, And it was bad. I I got out of my house. I went to a hotel for a week while this was happening, waited for it to blow over. Speaker 0: Did do your show from the hotel? Speaker 1: No. I took a week off. Speaker 0: Wow. Did you announce any of this in public? Speaker 1: No. I had to keep it very Why? I didn't wanna track more of it. Speaker 0: Yeah. You Speaker 1: know? Because if you say, oh, they're here, then people go, oh, no. We gotta keep up the pressure, you know, or turn it up. And people at that time were talking about burning my house down. Like on TikTok, there were viral videos of people saying, we're gonna burn his house down. And then they doxed my parents' address. People showed up to my parents' house. It got really bad, and, eventually, it just blew over. About a month passed, and at that time so it was, like, mid December, mid late December. It's actually funny. Was December 18. I remember it because that's an important date to me. And as Joseph Stalin's birthday. Oh. I'm a fan. Speaker 0: You're a fan of Stalin's? Speaker 1: Mhmm. Always an admirer. But we we don't need to go into that. Guess. Like Speaker 0: Let's okay. Let's get back. Let's we'll circle back to that. Speaker 1: Was weird because the reason I mentioned that, it was almost like because I woke up that day and I was like, oh, it's December 18. And I I was just like very acutely aware of like, today's like a strange day. This is the day that the attempt happened. And so nothing had been happening for weeks at this point. So elections like, what, November 3, month and a half has passed. Nobody's coming to my house anymore, rarely. And I'm doing my show like normal, and I'm reaching the end of the show, and I see out of the corner of my eye, I get an alert from my Ring doorbell camera that somebody's at the front door. And so I'm reading through my super chats. I'm going through live chat Yeah. I'm live. And, you know, I'm working through the messages, and I'm I'm keeping an eye on it, and I see that this guy has a loaded gun. The guy's Sorry laugh. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well So you're live live, and you see that there's a guy with a gun outside your door. Speaker 1: Yes. He's got a motorcycle helmet and a backpack. He's got a gun drawn, and he's knocking on the door yelling. And I the thing is I didn't want to tip him off that I knew he was there because I thought I don't want him to get the drop on me or something. You know, I just didn't wanna give him any information about you know? Because I don't know if he's listening to my show, if I start freaking out or cancel the show. I don't know. Maybe he knows more about my movements inside. So I I keep the show going for like a minute, and I wrap it up very quickly. I finish the show. My producer comes running in, and I say, who is that? What's going on? And he goes, oh, I called the cops. They're here. The guy's gone. I said, okay. Good. So I start getting changed out of my suit, and I hear gunshots go off outside. Damn. Yeah. And I literally, like, jumped to the ground because I'm like, I don't know what's happening here. And I step outside for a minute after the the dust kinda settles and the there's, like, 10 cop cars all up and down the street, and they have the whole block locked down. Police tape everywhere. There's like a dozen cops. Like I said, the whole block is shut down. The alley is shut down, and they go get back inside. Get back inside. We have no idea what's going on. We have no idea what happened, And they wouldn't let me or my producer leave until the morning. That's how late they were there. And finally, at the end of the at the end of the night, after all the cops left, I came out in the very early morning. Speaker 0: Did no one come and explain any of this to you? Speaker 1: No. No. Nobody said anything. Yeah. It's ridiculous. And finally, I go out in the morning, and I asked the guy, oh, okay. What happened? He told me the story. It's what turns out that it's it's this young guy. He's 23 years old, white nerd, short guy. He was at U of I, University of Illinois in Urbana Champaign, about two hours south of where I live. He killed three people earlier in the day. He went to his roommate's house, college roommate's house, killed his roommate, killed the sister, the guy's mother, got in his car, and drove directly to my house, parked outside my house, got out a 22 pistol and an automatic crossbow. Weird choice. And he knocked on the door, which is where I saw him. He went around the house. He tried he tried the back door, tried the front door, and the cops pulled up. He took off running through the gangway, hopped the fence, ran into the neighbor's house. I guess he went into the neighbor's basement because the door was unlocked. He was hiding from the police. He shot two of their dogs, which is devastating. He runs back outside, and the cops see him. He shoots at the cops. The cops shot him in the face, and he dies on the spot. Who Speaker 0: what was his motive? Speaker 1: They never told me. To this day, have no idea. There's no Speaker 0: They never told you? No. So what contact did you have with the police after this? Speaker 1: They came by about a week later. Illinois State Police came to retrieve the ring camera footage of the whole incident. And so they had me download download that onto a thumb drive, and that's it. I never heard from the cops, never heard from the government. Not at all? No. Nothing. Speaker 0: A guy comes to murder you. He's murdered three other people and two dogs. He gets shot to death, and no one bothers to tell you anything? Speaker 1: Nope. Nothing. Speaker 0: Is it really a country at this point? No. I mean Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. And So what was his motive? Speaker 0: Do you have any idea? Speaker 1: I have no idea. I so the story that I read online, because the obviously, the news followed up on this, and they said that so he was, like, five foot five. He got I guess he was involved with drugs, actually, with his roommate. They sold drugs together, something like that. They had a falling out over the drug money or something like that. The roommate beat the shit out of him so bad he dropped out of school. He had this major falling out with the roommate, but they were close. Had a big falling out. The shooter took him to small claims court over some money. And I guess this guy was just in a downward spiral. He lost his job. He got in a hit and run crash and ran from the police, then he was swearing at the cops when they showed up to arrest him. And I guess his life just kept getting worse and worse and worse. I assume he took it out on the roommate and I got it. Off. Speaker 0: Yeah. Killed the whole family. Horrifying. But how do you fit into that? Speaker 1: So this is just my opinion, speculation. This is like a month after Luigi Mangione. He had on a and the shooter at my house had on a motorcycle helmet and, a costume. And so I think he was maybe like a copycat of Luigi Mangione. He thought he was gonna be like a hero and assassinate some reviled political figure who was going viral at that time being hated for that tweet. So I think that might have been the motive, but that's pure speculation. I have no idea. Speaker 0: I mean, it's a well documented fact that all kinds of bad actors use unstable people for political assassinations. Right? It's happened. We know it's happened. Mhmm. So do you think this might be an example of that? Speaker 1: I don't think so, but it's certainly possible. The reason I say I don't think Speaker 0: so funny. You're I mean, I think of you as conspiracy minded, but you don't have a conspiracy in mind here. Speaker 1: No. Because I I really believe that when you look at all these things and by these things, I mean, these, like, really disturbing instances of violence like Luigi Mangione or Charlie Kirk or these school shootings, there is something going on with these kids. It's nihilism. It's these people that are maybe mentally defective, extremely online. I think there's, like, a real problem there. And and I don't doubt that sometimes these people are involved with maybe a foreign government or they're being groomed or put up to it by an operative. But I think to assume that it's always that ignores that, like, there's a very real problem of nihilistic, surrealist violence that comes from young people. And, you know, like, this guy kill it's a triple homicide out of nowhere, and then he tries to kill me. I think he just went crazy, but I could be wrong. Speaker 0: Describe the circumstances that have led to this violence. Like, what how does a normal kid, young man go from being a normal young man to being a murderer? Speaker 1: I think that it has a lot to do. If you read through all these stories, they always have a few things in common, which is that and people have pointed this out. This is not new. SSRIs are always a big one. Of course. But what that points to is a depressive streak. It's always somebody that is a loner or socially dislocated or socially dysfunctional. You know, they don't have many real life friends, engage in real life activities, slip through the cracks. That's always how it starts. Then they get into either they're medicated by a therapist with SSRIs or they self medicate, which is extremely common with alcohol, weed, which is extremely potent now, and you could get THC from like a vape pen. So it's very powerful, very accessible. You know, when I was in high school, my stoner friends would have to, like, go on a walk to the park and roll a joint. Now with the vape, you can hit that anywhere, I guess. Speaker 0: Of Speaker 1: course. It's very discreet. They also do psychedelics. I think that's a huge part of it. Speaker 0: And How how is that a huge part of it? Speaker 1: I think that a lot of them get turned on. They'll do alcohol, marijuana, and then I think they get into psychedelics like LSD or MDMA. And I think those things induce psychosis. These psychoactive drugs, whether it's marijuana by itself or it's LSD, I think they tend to induce psychosis and exacerbate those, like, existing problems. And, basically, what happens, I I would say that that is maybe the next step. And then the other ingredient that's always there is although they don't have a social life in the real world, they have a social life on the Internet. Yes. And so they're deeply involved in obscure Internet forums, Discord, gaming communities. Increasingly, chat GPT is inducing psychosis. People talk to chat GPT all day, all night. And you you basically have between the three of these things, they kind of go into like a different world between the psychoactive substances, the make believe reality of the Internet totally disconnected from the real world. I I think they enter into, like, this delusional state. And I think that's where that shooter in Minneapolis, I think that's what that was. I think if Tyler Robinson is found guilty, there's been some interesting screenshots about him and his transgender boyfriend. It's the same story there, if that's true. And I would imagine it was not dissimilar with the guy that showed up and tried to kill me. I think those are always the ingredients that produce that kind of violence. Speaker 0: It's interesting. Your audience, as I imagine it, I've never seen any of your numbers. I don't even know how big your audience is. It seems big to me, but I think of them as young men. Mhmm. That's the bulk of your audience. Right? Yes. And yet here you are criticizing weed and video games and the Internet, and you work on the Internet. You are a creation. I mean, you wouldn't exist without the Internet. Speaker 1: Of course. Speaker 0: You didn't get a job at NBC News. So what kind of reaction do you get when you say when you criticize weed gaming and the Internet to young men? Speaker 1: A lot of them agree with it because they get it. It's their life. A lot of them, that's their life. Their life is and another thing we didn't even bring up is the porn thing, which is there also. This is their life. Weed, gaming, porn, and I think they know it's bad. I think they know there's, like, some sense of guilt. And so it's interesting. I would say it's maybe an eighty twenty split where 20% say, oh, you're against weed. Not cool, man. It's just a plant. Well, you know, they're very defensive about it, about these addictions. And I think 80% say, I know I have a problem. Like, I I have a guilty conscience. I know it's bad. I know it's terrible. Why are you against weed? Because I think that it compromises the integrity of your mental faculties. I think there's something deeply wrong with that when you I'm against alcohol too. I think it's wrong to numb pain. I think pain is a part of life. I think sobriety is like should be experienced. And I think that weed is even worse because I think that one, it's very dangerous. There's a lot of numbers now out of like California and Washington that people are going to the hospital for psychosis. People are going crazy because of that. Speaker 0: It's also more subtle and therefore more insidious. Like, you can't you know, I've done it. If you have a, you know, 12 pack for breakfast, like everyone knows. But if you take a hit off the dab pen, like nobody knows. Mhmm. So you can use it all the time. Speaker 1: Yeah. And it makes you a loser. It makes you lazy. You know, people that are people that are addicted to weed are not motivated, don't care about anything other than weed. You know, there's sort of like an irony there where I used to hang out with a lot of stoners in high school. I never smoked weed, but all my friends did. And they were so chill and relaxed and didn't care about anything. But if you criticized weed, they would freak out and get extremely defensive. Speaker 0: Yes. I've noticed. Speaker 1: Right? If you insinuate that it's addictive, if you say it's a problem, they get very, like, junky behavior. And so I've always hated it. I think it's disgusting. Speaker 0: What is porn exactly? Like, describe how available is porn? What is it? I know what porn is, but, like, you said it's a huge factor in the lives of young men and a bad factor. Why? Speaker 1: Well, this is another thing where it's it's reality distortion. That that's kind of the theme. Just like psychedelics distort reality, just like a kind of Internet society is a form of delusion, so is porn in the sense that, you know, a lot of people maybe don't realize, and we we talked about this a little bit. People are getting turned on to porn when they're, like, 10 years old. And it's when you are going through puberty, when you're developing your sexual faculties, how could you stay away from that? Every kid has a phone. Every kid has an iPad, and every iPad and phone is, if you, you know, if if you know what it is, loaded up with porn. And it's infinite, and it's ubiquitous, and it's you could get every kind of it you want whenever you want. It's in your pocket. And so something that is almost never talked about is that this is a generation that's totally sexually dysfunctional, I think, because of pornography. And some people are able to cope with it. Some people don't have a problem. But I think a lot of people, and maybe even a small minority, have a serious problem with it. The problem people sexually dysfunctional? I think that it's impossible for a real woman to compete with the availability and the novelty of pornography. A real woman, you know, like, without getting graphic, is she's only one person, and, you know, she's maybe she wants to do something sexual, maybe she doesn't. Porn is you could have a 10 a 100 different women in one sitting doing anything that whatever whatever niche or idiosyncratic thing a person might be into, it's there. And so I think that novelty combined with that availability, it makes it so that, you know, when you think about courting a woman, juice isn't worth the squeeze. And so there there's, like, also a problem of, like, erectile dysfunction. People that that can't enjoy regular sex because it it does not compare to the intensity, the novelty, and the availability of porn. It's it's hyperstimulation. And so I think that's sabotaging a lot of normal sexual relationships. Speaker 0: It seems like it's making a lot of people gay too. Speaker 1: Yeah. And trans. Speaker 0: You think that's true? Speaker 1: 100%. What is that? I think that the novelty is a huge part of that. I think that if you are somebody that uses pornography multiple times per day, which many people do. Speaker 0: Actually? Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. Speaker 0: That's a lot of jerking off. Speaker 1: It's a huge problem. Yeah. And, you know, if you're doing that multiple times a day, every day for years since you're a kid, well, eventually, you you get bored Yeah. And you wanna move on to something more extreme. And you you're kind of it's operates, I think, similar to like a drug. You you kind of have the same kind of resistance to it that you would to a drug or a tolerance for it, and you're always chasing that initial feeling the first time you used it or the first time you saw a certain thing. And I think eventually, you just chase more taboo, more transgressive. And I think maybe some people are more prone to that than other people going in this really true direction. Speaker 0: How Charlie Sheen got AIDS, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Through just being jaded and looking for something more transgressive. That's just a fact. Speaker 1: And there's something too about what it does when you look at it, when you because people don't realize that it is a fundamentally different experience being involved in intercourse versus watching other people have intercourse. And I think that actually does something to you. Speaker 0: Tell me, what do you mean? Speaker 1: I think that, you know, for example, I think Steve Saylor has written about this, that there's multiple kinds of transsexuals. And he says that one kind of transsexual is somebody that likes the idea of seeing themselves as a woman. It's autogynephilia. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, one of the theories for that is you you watch a man having sex with a woman that isn't you so much, you kind of achieve an identity with the woman in like a weird sick way. You almost identify with the woman. And so there's weird things that happen when you're Yes. Watching that and having such strong emotional and sexual experiences with it. Speaker 0: That's fascinating. I have always been I've sensed for a long time having had a lot of young male employees mention porn as a problem. I mean, the big porn companies give visibility to foreign intel services on the back end. So that means people know what you're looking at. There's likely video and audio of you watching. So that, you know, that's like so so such a deal killer for me. Not a huge expert on the topic, but I have always sensed this was a huge deal, but I've always been too embarrassed to, like, do a show on it. Mhmm. But it sounds like you're describing something that's everywhere that affects everybody, and that is do you think it's related to the, you know, the huge decline in, like, actual sex and relationships and marriage, screwed up dating? All of this derives in part from porn, Speaker 1: do think? I think it's a huge part of it. It's a huge factor. And it it's even on the other side too. It's become so destigmatized for women to actually participate in porn. Only people don't even recognize that OnlyFans is a whole separate category. It's a new it's an innovation in the realm of pornography because you have what everyone considers what everyone knows as porn, which is like videos of porn stars, like dedicated career sex workers having sex in a relatively controlled environment or something like that. But then you get OnlyFans, which is like Patreon for nudes or sex. And, basically, there's now a a very large subculture, much larger than people want to admit of women who the moment they turn 18, that is what they do is they make an OnlyFans account and they become an amateur porn star. And it is completely casual. You know? Because you you could say that maybe ten years ago, even at the heyday of Internet porn, to be in porn, you gotta be a porn star. Like, that's your life and that's your career and that's who you are, and it's very shameful. With OnlyFans, it's like it's like having a TikTok. It's like, here's my Linktree. Here's my Instagram account. Here's my Facebook account. Here's my YouTube, and here's my OnlyFans. Speaker 0: Why would any of this be legal? Speaker 1: I think that well, there's like you indicated, maybe there's an intelligence benefit to that. Yeah. Maybe there's a political benefit to that. I think that Speaker 0: Why wouldn't you arrest the people who run something like that? Speaker 1: You should be. If you had a Christian government. Speaker 0: Or how about just a government that cares about its people? I mean, is Iran a bigger threat, is OnlyFans Iran's not turning my daughters to prostitution that I'm aware of. Right. Right? I mean, that seems like one of the worst things that could happen to any society. Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. So how big is the support for that? Like, if Speaker 0: a candidate were to come out and say, we ought to arrest the guys who own Mind Geek, which is the biggest I think it's the biggest porn supplier in the world or the guys who run OnlyFans, what would the reaction be among, I don't know, people 50? Speaker 1: I think there would be broad support for that. Really? I do, actually. Yes. Speaker 0: I hope someone will say that. Someone needs to. I hope someone arrests them, like, right away. Speaker 1: Yeah. Was actually Speaker 0: Seizes their assets and puts them in prison. Speaker 1: Well, seizes their their their bodies, you know, puts them in jail. Yeah. I mean Speaker 0: The owners of that, people who are I mean, talk about human trafficking. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I thought we were against human trafficking. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well So you but Speaker 0: you think that young people because you always think of young people as so liberal, but, like, no. Wouldn't think that was crazy? Speaker 1: No. I I think especially among young men, they know it's a problem. It's ruining their lives, and they know it. Speaker 0: So what are the other factors that prevent I'm sorry I called you gay, by the way, but I'm always I think I'm just too old or something. I'm like, what? Why isn't anyone married? You tell me. Why isn't why aren't people married? Speaker 1: Well, I mean, honestly, it's the women. The women are extremely liberal. No one talks about that. They're increasingly, they do, especially after the last election. There's a 45 difference between men and women. The men are extremely conservative increasingly. The women are extremely liberal. Speaker 0: What are they liberal on what issues? Like, what does that mean liberal? Speaker 1: Oh, on on they're very feminist. Like, actually? Extremely feminist. Yes. Speaker 0: They don't believe that, do they? Speaker 1: I think they do. Really? Absolutely. Yes. Speaker 0: Believe that. I think gender roles are a construct that none of this is inborn. Like, you'd have to be an idiot to think that. Speaker 1: They like the idea of it. They they like the because, of course, I think all women naturally want strong men. Of course. Obviously. Naturally want a Chad. You know? They want, like, a tall, buff guy. But they I think they like the idea of none of them wanna work either. None of them actually wanna work. Speaker 0: I'm saying. Of course. That's Right. It's obviously true. It's always been work outside the home. Speaker 1: Right. They don't Speaker 0: have enough work at home. You know, there's a lot to do. But, no, I completely agree. So that's why I question, like, they're feminists in what sense. Speaker 1: Yes. And, you know, they like these vague appeals to equality. We we want a chance to work, and we want respect. And, you know, ultimately, I think the whole political system is just based around women never being accountable for any of their choices. Ultimately, that seems to be what that's what abortion is. Speaker 0: Yeah. Of course. Speaker 1: Because ninety nine percent of abortions are elective. So they say it's an unplanned pregnancy. You had sex out of wedlock with someone you didn't intend to have kids with, so now we have to kill the kids in the womb. And, you know, these no fault divorce laws. These women get married to guys maybe they never intend to stay with, and then when they're out, they're done. And they want child support, and they want half the stuff. And I think a lot of men are looking at women, and they're they're very liberal. They're overweight. They have a a very high estimation of themselves. I think that people call it hoeflation. Hoeflation? Yes. Their sense of their own looks and sexual value is very inflated. And so a lot of people are looking at these, like, frumpy, obnoxious, loud mouth, liberal women who are who are also very promiscuous and saying this is not actually appealing at all, and I don't I don't wanna start a family with a person. Off. Yeah. It is. Speaker 0: But if you believe in the patriarchy, as I fervently do because it's just reality, you know, we didn't choose the system. We were born into a system that is part of nature, can't get out of it. So if you believe that that's true, which it is, then you think that men should lead. And if it's gonna be better, men should make it better because that's their job. Right. So you don't wanna give them a pass, do you? It'd be like it's all the the girls suck. So Speaker 1: I I don't even blame it on the women because I think that it's it's the incentive structures. You know, women are allowed to do this by the legal system, by kind of social norms. Technology is a big part of it. The attention that is available to women. Women go on Instagram, and they get attention from thousands of men. So it's the incentives. But I would say that because I hear this all the time. People say, well, the men need to step up and be better and lead the women. Easier said than done. I agree. Know? Speaker 0: I agree with Speaker 1: They're at war with the system, and and not even just the system, but also society. Because let's say you find one of these so called good girls who's Christian and traditional, But through osmosis, wherever you go, she's gonna be in society. She's gonna be on TikTok. She's gonna be on Instagram. She's gonna be talking to other women. And maybe she's one way you when you married, but 10 down the road, fifteen years, twenty years down the road, people change. And I think that women as kind of the ultimate conformists, the ultimate enforcers of, like, social norms, I think eventually the pressure from society kinda gets to them, and a lot of them will go Speaker 0: into Depends what kind of husbands they have. I mean, if there's real leadership at home, I don't know a single happily married woman who's liberal, not one. I know a lot of married women. I mean, I'm 56, all the women I know are married. Mhmm. And every happily married woman is non liberal. Mhmm. I can't even imagine. There's there's no category for happily married middle aged liberal woman. There's never been one. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: So, like, maybe the job is to, you know, make a girl happy and, like, all this nonsense ends. Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know. I think that that that could be a bottomless pit too because the one critique I have of the men is, and you're right about this, they enable this behavior. Speaker 0: Well, that's for sure. Speaker 1: It's epidemic of simps who and especially with Christians, I've noticed this. This is why Andrew Tate has so much appeal, and the Christians are kind of losing this conversation. Andrew Tate's a Muslim polygamist who is very chauvinistic, and and you could even argue as someone who has ran an only fan site himself, like, is not an observer, let's say, of Christian sexual morality. No. But men are going with him because he's putting women in their place. He's talking about patriarchy and women's place in a society like that. Whereas Christian men, Catholics, Protestants alike, are both kind of tone policing the men, and they they worship their wives. They worship the women, put them on a pedestal, and they, you know, they they kinda get bossed around. They get henpecked by the women. Speaker 0: I think we're required to love our wives. Like, that's, I mean, all over the New Testament. Husbands love your wives. Wives respect your husbands. That seems like a very natural balance to me. Speaker 1: Yeah. And and I think that you have to love your wife as your wife. Yeah. A lot of men Speaker 0: As opposed to what? Your mom? Speaker 1: Well, no. Like No. Speaker 0: That is Speaker 1: like your buddy. No. Because I hear this all the time, and I I hate this. Guys will say, I I married my best friend, and I think, you know, she's your wife. She's not your best friend because there's a difference. What is the difference? I think that when you talk about your best friend, you're a peer, you're an equal, And I think your best friendships are with other men. And I think that your wife ultimately is subordinate to you. She's your helpmate. And, ultimately, as the man in the marriage and the as the father, you have authority, the final say over the household. Well, can give advice. It's not to say I'm not an a freak where you say, shut up, woman. I mean, of course, you discuss things with your wife and your wife gives input, but the authority rests with the man. Of course. Speaker 0: Of course. But there's God set up this kind of amazing system where men are physically stronger. Mhmm. So, like, of course, you could make your wife do whatever you wanted. You're bigger than she Speaker 1: is. Right. Speaker 0: But he also instilled in men this desire to please your wife. Like, that's a very natural thing. You want your wife to be happy. Absolutely. And the whole happy wife, happy life thing is is completely real. It's like you can't get away from it. It's not like, all of these things, it's not a choice. It's the biological reality that you live with, that you were born with. Like, you want your wife to be happy. And if she's unhappy, you're unhappy Mhmm. To a much greater extent than vice versa. Right? Yeah. I think men care about their wives being happy much more than wives care about their husbands being happy. Speaker 1: Yes. I Speaker 0: have noticed. And that's compensation for their lack of physical power. Mhmm. That's my view of it. And that's why it is this kind of perfect balance, but somebody needs to be the final decision maker. I completely agree. And when you when you give up that, when you abrogate that, there's no respect, there's unhappiness, and there's infidelity. Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's the ingredient that's missing. The way I would put it very succinctly is men right now are the responsible party, but have no authority, and that doesn't work. Speaker 0: No. It doesn't. Speaker 1: You know? If you are held if the buck stops with you and you're to blame and you're the responsible one, then you also need to be able to have the final say and call the shots. And one without the other doesn't work, and I think Speaker 0: that is I think that's really smart and and absolutely right. I do think I've just noticed this, that men who stay unmarried for too long become, like, kind of fragile. There's something about the give and take. There's something about living with in fact, I think it's the key to life, someone you don't fully understand that broadens you, that keeps you always thinking, that makes you wiser, more patient, more thoughtful, more self aware, and more flexible. And those are all good qualities. And and the and the absence of that, like in homosexuality or, like, men who are single too long, they get very rigid. Have you ever noticed this? I like things the way I like them, and they Speaker 1: just get like, no. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I certainly get what you mean by that. Speaker 0: You don't want that. Yeah. Speaker 1: I would say that when when you say you don't fully understand women, to me, I feel like women are very simple in terms of Speaker 0: You ever lived with one? Speaker 1: No. I haven't lived with them. But, I mean and and don't get me wrong. Maybe it's difficult, but I feel like they're pretty simple. We're all pretty simple. Speaker 0: I mean, that's you know, no one's more simple than I am, but yeah. We're all pretty simple. But what I mean is, like, on a day to day level of experience, like, you don't always understand what they're saying. What the because it's never about what they say it's about. Right. And men are just tend to be kind of dog like in their straightforwardness. You know? I'm hungry. I'm horny. Whatever it is. Speaker 1: I I disagree. I feel like men are complicated. I feel like women are like, I'm hungry. I'm horny. I feel like men are very complicated. Really? How? Because men have different men are masters of the universe. Women are the universe. You know? This is what Spengler says about them. And so I think that men have, like, a deep connection to things like math and space, and they wanna conquer the world. Speaker 0: Of Speaker 1: course. You know, things like this. And and women, I feel like, are actually very primal and instinctual. Speaker 0: Yes. They want security. Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Sonic. You know, Speaker 0: they're of the 100%. Never embarrassed by bodily functions. Men are so squeamish. Yes. Women are not at all. They give birth. No. That is absolutely true. But I mean in the way that women present their concerns, there's almost always something that's not being fully expressed. Like, I got mad at you last night because I was pissed about something last year. That's not a male thing to do. You can't remember what happened last year. Speaker 1: Right. Right. Right. Speaker 0: Right? And so but anyway, but whatever the point, men and women talk past each other constantly. Mhmm. They don't always know what the other one is saying, and that frustration actually gives way to, like, great beauty over time, I would say. Speaker 1: I don't know. I I I personally find women very frustrating Yeah. When they are not expressing, and I see that as way of it. I see the way I look at is, like, when you look at your favorite TV shows Right. Sopranos, Breaking Bad, it's like the wife is the villain because it's like the main character, if the wife could just get out of the way, would be running the shell. And that's kind of how I feel like Ayn Rand. I agree with her about this. She said that the wife's role is like hero worship. The guy is the hero. The guy is supposed to be the entrepreneur, the conqueror, whatever, and the woman is really supposed to support the man's goals and be in his world. I've felt that Speaker 0: thing successful men need is more power worship, more hero worship, more you're so great. When you get that at work, you don't want that at home. You become an unbearable asshole, and then you fall prey to what destroys every successful man, which is hubris, like you mistake yourself for God. You need someone who's not interested in what you do at all, only interested in you, and that's how you become balanced and wise. That's how you know your own limits. Because the ass kissing is what kills you. It's not I mean, you had someone come to murder you at home, and you've been it doesn't seem to have affected you that much. Speaker 1: And if I were married, dude, she would never let me hear the end of it. Speaker 0: Well, that's probably true, but but that's not that's not what destroys men. It's not adversity that destroys men. It's comfort and flattery that destroys men. Right? That's what happened to King David. It's what happens to them all. Yeah. So great. You can never go wrong. Speaker 1: I just feel like we do we have I don't feel like we have an abundance of affection from women. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, in terms of where the pendulum is at, I feel like the women are very unloving to the men. That's why, like, they don't cook because that's, like, the best way to express a love for a man. I said this on my show the other night. I'm like, the most beautiful words a woman could say is like, I made you dinner. I made you cookies. Yeah. Because that that is like an act of love. And I think that, you know, speaking as maybe from a different generation, the way that men feel now is like, you know, women are not really providing too much. They expect so much from the men. They wanna they want the man to be rich and provide. Yeah. They want the man to be fit and a real leader and a real man. They also wanna split the chores with the man. They want the man to do half the laundry and half the dishes and things like that. And it's like, so what do you do all day? You're on TikTok. You're, like, doom scrolling and eating Cheetos. Like, what what actually are you providing in the relationship? So I just feel like in terms of the deficit, it's like women are very emboldened. They're they're too, I think, assertive, always giving their opinions, always critiquing, always, you know, I I think that they're very bold right now, and I think and sarcastic. I think that's a big reason why they're not very attractive. Speaker 0: I get it. I all I would say is that in a happy marriage, all of that goes away. There's no arguing about who does what. People fall seamlessly into the roles they were born into. They acknowledge those, they're not insecure about it at all. They express love in a whole bunch of different ways by serving each other. It's like super easy. And and all of that obnoxious, entitled, you don't make enough money, all that crap just disappears. Mhmm. Anyway, that's been my experience. So last question. Where is all of this going in this country? Like, where are we in five years? Speaker 1: Not anywhere good. I'm I'm really concerned, and I'm not one of these doomsday sayers. You know, there's a lot of people there forever, you know, the sky's falling every day. But I really feel like the the things that concern me the most, it's the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Seemed like we crossed a Rubicon there. I agree with that. Because he's just a conservative guy, relatively moderate expressing his opinions. He's not the president. He's not a politician. And and it wasn't just that he got shot. It was what happened afterward, which is that a 100,000 liberals went on TikTok and celebrated. And that shows that the how can you integrate or or harmonize with people that hate you that much? They see some you know? And and I understand that liberals thought he was a jerk. Like, maybe he was a little rude or something like that, and he really wasn't. I mean, he was pretty patient, as patient as they got. Speaker 0: I just tried to fill in for him last week and immediately snapped at some kid and threatened to beat him up and went crazy. And and I had said a prayer for patience, by the way, and I still couldn't handle it. So, no, Charlie Kirk was a remarkably even keeled, patient, decent man. Speaker 1: Yes. And yeah. So whatever their perception of him was, to see him get his his face blown up in front of everybody like that, and your first the first reaction of someone in the crowd who is present, some guy with the beard jumps up and celebrates. Did you see this? No. Some liberal kid in the audience jumps up and says, right. Speaker 0: I literally can't handle it. I'm so upset by it. I haven't looked at anything. Speaker 1: It's disgusting. And you see I saw that and said, yeah. Like, there's no putting the genie back in the lamp here. That was one. The other thing I'm really worried about is what's happening at these ICE detention centers where it's happening not far from where I live in Broadview, Illinois, where they set up an ICE detention facility, and the administration is rounding these people up, which I support, but they're doing it in a very provocative way. They're broadcasting it. They're making hype edits on Twitter of, like, these raids on apartment complexes, which I think are very cool, but it's somewhat provocative. An Antifa showing up. In order to protect ICE, the administration's putting DHS. Well, now they're protesting the DHS presence, and and the administration of the governor of Illinois and the mayor of Chicago are telling Chicago police, don't help ICE, and they are encouraging the protesters. And what I see there is like a level of tension that just keeps increasing. Yes. And there's leadership. There's civilian leadership on both sides, like the governor and mayor who are Democrats won't back down versus a Republican president. There's a security division too, the police versus ICE, the police versus DHS. There's a constitutional question about the federal supremacy. You know? I see all the ingredients of, like, a low boil civil conflict, full blown civil war. And I'm not that guy, but I see all the ingredients Speaker 0: there I do too. Speaker 1: For that to happen. So I'm I'm deeply concerned about where that will go. Speaker 0: How how would you handle it if you're in charge? If you're the president, what do you do about that? Speaker 1: I think maybe this is controversial, but they have to crush the other side. They have to because you can do one or two things. You cannot challenge the left and let them do their thing, or you can utterly confront them and defeat them and and remove hope from the equation. If you resist, you will be arrested. Like, we're just this is an insurrection. There's 10,000,000 people here illegally. We're getting them out. You're rioting. You're going to jail too. Like, it has to be crushed. But if you do anything less than that, if you do in the middle, all you're doing is antagonizing and feeding the other side. And if they think there's a chance they can win, they will get bolder and stronger and they'll start to rally. And that's when it's sort of like people think it's close or like it's contentious. That's when it breathes. That's when oxygen is fed to this kind of fire. So if I were Trump, I would say, 200 national guard, like, arrest the mayor of Chicago, like, arrest the governor, shut it down, like, make it clear. Like, Washington, you know, bring in the troops and say the federal government is supreme. The immigration law is a law of the land. If you're not on board with that, you're going to jail. If you attack ICE or box them in with your car, you're going to jail for a long time. Anything less than that, you you might as well just not even bark up that tree at all. Speaker 0: Nick Fuentes. Thank you very much. Speaker 1: Thank you. It's nice to meet you. Likewise. Speaker 0: We've got a new website we hope you will visit. It's called newcommissionnow.com, and it refers to a new nine eleven commission. So we spent months putting together our nine eleven documentary series. And if there's one thing we learned, it's that in fact, there was foreknowledge of the attacks. People knew. Speaker 1: The American public deserves to know. Speaker 0: We're shocked actually to learn that, to have that confirmed, but it's true. The evidence is overwhelming. The CIA, for example, knew the hijackers were here in The United States. They knew they were planning an act of terror. In his passport is a visa to go to United States Of America. A foreign national was caught celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote, to document the event. How do you know there would be an event to document in the first place? Because he had foreknowledge. And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor, shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on nine eleven, as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks. They made money on the nine eleven attacks because they knew they were coming. Who did that? Speaker 1: You have to look at the evidence. Speaker 0: The US government learned the name of that investor, but never released it. Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this, but there isn't actually. And by the way, doesn't matter whether there is or not. The public deserve to know what the hell that was. How did people know ahead of time and why was no one ever punished for it? Nine eleven commission, the original one, was a fraud. It was fake. Its conclusions were written before the investigation. That's true, and it's outrageous. This country needs a new nine eleven commission, one that actually tells the truth that tries to get to the bottom of the story. We can't just move on like nothing happened. Nine eleven commission is Speaker 1: a cover. Speaker 0: Something did happen. We need to force a new investigation into nine eleven almost twenty five years later. Sorry, justice demands it. And if you want that, go to newcommissionnow.com to add your name to our petition. We're not getting paid for this, we're doing this because we really mean it. Newcommissionnow.com.
Saved - October 15, 2025 at 1:25 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Why would Israeli Nationals celebrate 9/11? Watch all five episodes of The 9/11 Files at http://TuckerCarlson.com. https://t.co/xPhTgfnCA4

Video Transcript AI Summary
The transcript presents a sequence of claims about Israeli individuals in relation to the September 11 attacks, drawn from different sources and presented without evaluation. It links eyewitness claims, alleged spying concerns, attitudes toward the attacks, documentary evidence, and a provocative arrest scene, attributing each element to specific sources. - "On the morning of 09:11, a group of five Israeli nationals purported to have witnessed the initial explosion of the World Trade Center and were seen to be celebrating the event." This statement asserts immediate eyewitness activity at the World Trade Center collapse and describes celebratory behavior by the group. - "Fox News has learned some US investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on The US, who may have known things they didn't tell us before September 11." This claim presents the assertion of renewed Israeli espionage involvement in the United States and suggests foreknowledge not disclosed before the attacks. - "It is true that some in Israel saw the attack as a good thing for them." This line conveys an evaluative stance attributed to segments within Israel regarding the attacks. - "A 09/12/2001 article in the New York Times quotes now Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu responding to the nine eleven attacks. Quote, it is very good, before adding, well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy." This portion provides a cited reaction from Israeli leadership, including the quoted phrase about the attack being “very good” and the caveat about generating immediate sympathy. - "According to FBI documents, the Israelis caught celebrating the nine eleven attacks had videotaped the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and may have possessed foreknowledge of the same." This claim attributes specific documentary evidence to the celebrants, alleging videotaping of the attack and possible foreknowledge. - "When the Israelis were arrested in New Jersey, they were carrying photos of themselves smiling with the World Trade Center burning in the background." This final detail describes the physical evidence found with the arrested individuals, illustrating the asserted celebratory conduct. The sources cited in the transcript include Fox News, The New York Times, and FBI documents, each contributing a separate facet: eyewitness celebration, alleged espionage implications, public sentiment within Israel, leadership reaction, documentary evidence, and incriminating photographs carried at arrest.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: On the morning of 09:11, a group of five Israeli nationals purported to have witnessed the initial explosion of the World Trade Center and were seen to be celebrating the event. Speaker 1: Fox News has learned some US investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on The US, who may have known things they didn't tell us before September 11. Speaker 0: It is true that some in Israel saw the attack as a good thing for them. A 09/12/2001 article in the New York Times quotes now Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu responding to the nine eleven attacks. Quote, it is very good, before adding, well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy. According to FBI documents, the Israelis caught celebrating the nine eleven attacks had videotaped the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and may have possessed foreknowledge of the same. When the Israelis were arrested in New Jersey, they were carrying photos of themselves smiling with the World Trade Center burning in the background.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

The 9/11 Files: From Cover-up to Conspiracy | Ep 4 https://t.co/pEYf7y8Rwe

Video Transcript AI Summary
The episode argues that conspiracy theories about 9/11 may flourish precisely because of deliberate actions by the US government: suppressing video evidence of the attacks, routing rubble overseas without inspection, branding critics as crazy or criminal, lying about the attacks, preventing an actual investigation, avoiding public trials, and using the raid that killed Osama bin Laden to justify unrelated wars. It claims these patterns mirror what happened after 9/11 and suggests that focused attention on directed-energy weapons distracts from the government’s central role in facilitating the attacks. Building 7 is a central focus. The North Tower collapsed at 10:28 a.m., and Building 7, a 47-story steel-frame building about a football field away, also collapsed the same day. It housed the NYC Office of Emergency Management, the US Secret Service New York field office, a secret CIA office, and a DoD office; its records were destroyed. The 9/11 Commission’s 577-page report offered no explanation for Building 7’s collapse, prompting questions for a Senate investigation. Witnesses suggested that a plane could not have caused such a collapse, and theories of controlled demolition emerged, reinforced by studies and testimony about symmetrical, global collapse. Independent investigations, including Leroy Hulsey’s 2020 University of Alaska study, questioned NIST’s claim that thermal expansion of steel caused the failure and argued that office fires could not have produced the observed collapse. Critics noted that the building’s rapid, all-at-once fall differed from typical progressive collapses. The unedited video evidence indicated a two-stage collapse, which raised further queries about the official narrative. Debris was removed and shipped overseas quickly; a New York Times piece noted that some steel columns were sent to mills in Asia without examination, hindering analysis of the building’s collapse. NIST attributed the collapse to progressive failure after a single girder failed due to thermal expansion, while supporters of alternative theories pointed to discrepancies in video, eyewitness accounts of explosions, and the fact that some testing did not reproduce such collapses under comparable fires. Witnesses claimed hearing explosions inside Building 7, and efforts to interview one witness were noted alongside the later death of the witness. Attention is drawn to the broader debris-handling and investigative gaps: FEMA and NIST provided different explanations for Building 7’s fire and collapse, yet neither fully reconciled with the video evidence. The film notes that a BBC report appeared to claim the building’s collapse before it happened, suggesting foreknowledge or misreporting. A key disputed issue is the presence of thermitic material found in four dust samples from the towers, reported in 2009 in Open Chemical Physics Journal, implying energetic compounds, though NIST argued that thermite would require prolonged contact and would be difficult to conceal. Foreknowledge by foreign intelligence is emphasized. The transcript asserts that allied nations, particularly Israel, had information about the plot and that signals intelligence was shared with allies but not fully with the US. It cites the interception and handling of al-Qaeda communications, NSA reluctance to share raw data, and the role of foreign assets in the US before 9/11. It highlights the reporting of five Israelis seen celebrating the attacks, FBI documents suggesting deception rather than foreknowledge, and allegations that Israeli art students were connected to hijackers, living near Them and near key sites. It argues that foreign intelligence may have known more than the US and did not fully disclose it. The episode concludes with a call for a new, independent commission to answer specific questions: who decided to ship debris overseas and why; the CIA’s involvement with Building 7; the NSA’s signals intelligence and its sharing with foreign governments; what foreign governments knew and did not share; and several other questions the 9/11 Commission allegedly did not address. It frames the 9/11 attacks as transformative for American freedoms and warrants public accountability, promising further exploration of who profited from 9/11 in the next episode.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: If you wanted conspiracy theories to flourish after the nine eleven attacks, here's what you'd do. You'd suppress video evidence of the attacks themselves. You'd ship the rubble from the attacks overseas immediately without looking at it. You'd call everyone who disputed the official narrative crazy or a criminal. You'd engage in a campaign of very obvious lies about the attacks. You'd do everything you could to prevent an actual investigation into what happened. You'd avoid any public trials. When you captured and killed the perpetrator, you'd show no photos or video evidence of the raid that killed him. Then you'd dump his body into the Noli Ocean. Then you'd use the attack to justify the invasion of a completely unrelated country on behalf of a foreign power. In other words, you do exactly what the US government did in the wake of nine eleven. It's possible that there are people who wanted conspiracy theories to thrive. Better. The more time people spend wondering about directed energy weapons, the less time they focus on the obvious, the facts hiding in plain sight. And the main fact that they are ignoring is our government's central role in facilitating those attacks. We established this in episode one of this series and the extreme levels of incompetence that made it possible for Bin Laden from Kandahar, Afghanistan to pull off the most sophisticated terror attacks in history. On the other hand, not all the wildest theories about nine eleven are crazy. Some of them raise legitimate questions about what happened. And in this episode, we'll go through those theories one by one and explain using primary source documents, interviews with CIA officials, contemporary news reports, exactly what we know about those theories. The North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed at 10:28 a. M. On the morning of nineeleven. And when it did, burning debris fell and damaged several of the buildings around it, including a building called World Trade Center Building Number 7. It was a 47 story steel frame high rise located about a football field's length away on the other side of Vesey Street. Interestingly, there was a building between the North Tower and Building 7. That building did not collapse. The collapse of Building 7 is completely unaddressed in the 09/11 commission report. 577 pages, but no explanation as to why Building 7 fell. And that provoked very obvious questions. People have been talking about it for the last twenty four years. Speaker 1: And if you watch some of these pieces, you can actually see them turning to dust before they hit the ground. Speaker 2: A steel building doesn't fall into its own footprint because the plane hit another building a couple 100 yards away. Speaker 1: I did not see a plane. I didn't they said the plane hit the first building. The second building just exploded. Speaker 0: The circumstances around Building Seven's collapse and the near total absence of an explanation for why it collapsed provoked, in the end, a senate investigation. Speaker 3: Start with Building 7. Again, I don't know if you can find structural engineers that would say that thing didn't come down in any other way than to control demolition. Speaker 0: Building seven had a pretty amazing list of tenants. They included, ironically, the New York City Office of Emergency Management. That would be the agency responsible for responding to the nine eleven attacks. On the Ninth And Tenth Floors of Building 7 were the New York field office of the United States Secret Service. The equipment and records they kept there were destroyed that day when the building collapsed. The building's 20 Fifth Floor was home to a secret CIA office. Its records were also destroyed. Across the 20 Fifth Floor was a Department of Defense office. It's unclear exactly what it was doing there. Building 7 was one of just three buildings that collapsed that day. The collapse of the other two, the Twin Towers, got extensive coverage in the nine eleven report, of course. But Building 7 was almost entirely ignored. It's worth remembering that even on the morning of the nine eleven attacks, there were very prominent people already doubting whether a plane could take down a steel frame building. Speaker 4: I said, how could a plane, even a plane, even a seven sixty seven or seven forty seven or whatever it might have been, how could it possibly go through this deal? I happen to think that they had not only a plane, but they had bombs that exploded almost simultaneously, because I just can't imagine anything being able to go through that wall. It just seemed to me that to do that kind of destruction is even more than a big plane, because you're talking about taking out steel, the heaviest caliber steel that was used on a building. I mean, these buildings were rock solid. Speaker 0: One reason the nine eleven commission may have effectively ignored the collapse of Tower 7 is because even now we don't really know much about it. On the morning of September 11, Lower Manhattan was cut off from the public with military style checkpoints. World Trade Center Building 7 collapsed that afternoon at 05:20PM. Video that has been widely circulated appears to show it falling symmetrically into its own footprint. Several buildings closer to the Twin Towers meanwhile remain standing. That's odd. And then the debris was removed immediately and shipped to Asia. That's even stranger. Speaker 5: Where is all the rubble gone? And have you have you been able to there any way you can answer that question? Speaker 6: I'm sorry, Peter. I didn't get the question. Speaker 5: Okay. I apologize. Jackie Judd and several other people keep asking us, when you look at where the towers used to stand, there is surprisingly so little rubble. Where did all the rubble go? Speaker 6: It's a very good question, Peter, and I have asked some people who've been doing some of the rescue and recovery work this morning. If you look behind me, you can see the very remains, the skeletal remains of the World Trade Center. And one volunteer, Robert Garlinski, explained to me the reason there's so little rubble is that all of it simply fell down into the ground and was pulverized, evaporated. Now I should say though, for the last several hours, there's been a steady stream of dump trucks and other very large vehicles carrying out debris. Speaker 0: According to a New York Times article published five months after the attacks, quote, an unknown number of steel columns has been sent off to mills as far away as Asia without ever having been examined or saved. This made it nearly impossible for engineers to answer the monumental questions of exactly why and how the buildings, designed to sustain a jet impact, completely collapsed. To the extent that any analysis of the debris was done at all, it was done by volunteers at a scrap yard in Jersey City, New Jersey. According to the New York Times, the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation involves extremely thin bits of steel collected from the trade towers and from Seven World Trade Center, a 47 story high rise that also collapsed for unknown reasons. The steel apparently melted away, but no fire in any of the buildings was believed to be hot enough to melt steel outright. Two agencies investigated the collapse. One was FEMA, which relied on volunteers, and the other was NIST, the National Institute for Standards and Technology, funded by Congress. FEMA's explanation is that falling debris from the North Tower damaged the outer facade of Building 7 and started a series of fires in the lower floors. According to NIST, the collapse of the towers in the morning had damaged water mains, so the building's sprinkler systems failed. Since the building had been evacuated earlier in the morning and the fire department's resources were stretched to a breaking point by ongoing search and rescue fire chiefs made the decision early on not to fight the fires that were burning in Building 7. According to the NIST report, thermal expansion of steel beams, not the complete melting of steel, caused connections tying a crucial girder, girder 2,001 to Column 79. And that joint failed. The girder walked six and a quarter inches off its seat and that precipitated what is known as progressive collapse. That means that the collapse started in one area and then spread downward due to gravity through the rest of the building. That's the explanation. There are two questions that come to mind and both are obvious. First, if there was just one failure point, then why does video evidence show the building coming down symmetrically all at once at free fall acceleration in what more closely resembles what's called a global collapse, where all the supporting columns are severed simultaneously? The second question is, how have other steel frame buildings around the world similar in design to that in Tower 7 fared during fires? In 1991, for example, the 38 story 1 Meridian Plaza in Philadelphia had an eight floor fire that burned for eighteen hours and yet the building didn't collapse. In 1988, the 62 story first Interstate Bank building in Los Angeles had a massive fire that started on the Twelfth Floor. There was no structural failure. In 2017, the 24 story Grenfell Tower in London burned for over twenty four hours, and yet the internal steel withstood the fire. So why then did Building 7 collapse after just seven hours of burning in a way that no steel frame building anywhere in the world has ever collapsed. With the support of a group called Architects and Engineers for nineeleven Truth, Professor Leroy Hulsey of the University of Alaska at Fairbanks conducted an independent study whose findings were released in 2020. Professor Hulsey found that office fires of the kind in Building 7 And 911 could not have produced sufficient thermal expansion to cause the crucial girder to fail. It's impossible, he found. And more significantly, he and his team found that NIST's explanation does not account for what anyone can see on video, which is that the entire building came down all at once. Not in a progressive collapse, but in a total collapse. Something else, therefore, must have triggered the downfall. There's only one thing that could have triggered a collapse like the one we saw on television, and that is a controlled demolition. That was his conclusion. Our ability to analyze the collapse is limited by the video that we have. We don't have footage of the south side of the building where the fires were because the cameras there were likely destroyed or obstructed by the collapse of the Twin Towers. One issue with the controlled demolition hypothesis is that the widely circulated video of the building coming down is selectively edited. In fact, the building did not exactly collapse all at once. It came down in two stages. What you're seeing now is the full video of the collapse. It shows the penthouse collapsing first and then very quickly, the rest of the building going. The unedited video leaves more questions than it answers. It calls into question the official NIST narrative, but it doesn't conclusively show a controlled demolition either. Because of how quickly authorities shipped the rubble overseas, we did not get a thorough investigation into the destruction. But one group of scientists did collect and test four samples of dust and debris collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the Second World Trade Center Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. In 02/2009, they published the results of their study in the Open Chemical Physics Journal. In those samples, the scientists found distinctive red gray chips full of highly energetic and thermitic material. In other words, they found traces of explosive compounds. To its credit, NIST report did investigate multiple hypothetical blast scenarios, but found to carry out on any floor in the building without detection and would have required removing or cutting columns with welding torches and placing wires for demolition. NIST found that window breakage patterns on visible floors was not at all like expected from a blast. NIST did not test residue from the attacks for thermite, but did note that thermite burns slowly relative to explosive materials and would require several minutes in contact with a massive steel section to heat it to a temperature that would result in substantial weakening. Additionally, they estimated that at least point one three pounds of thermite be required to heat each pound of steel section to approximately 700 degrees Celsius, the temperature at which steel weakens substantially. Which means that if Building 7 were demolished using thermite, many thousands of pounds of thermite would need to have been placed inconspicuously ahead of time, remote ignited, and somehow held in direct contact with the surface of hundreds of massive structural components to weaken the building, making it an unlikely substance for achieving a controlled demolition. NIST also says that an explosion big enough to take down the building would have been considerably louder than any noises recorded around the time the building collapsed. Yet eyewitness accounts say they did hear explosions inside the building. Speaker 4: All this time, I'm hearing all type of explosions. All this time, I'm hearing explosions. Speaker 0: We attempted to interview that witness. His name was Barry Jennings. But he died at the untimely age of 53, just two days before NIST released its report on Tower 7. The film director Spike Lee attempted to cover this story in an HBO docuseries entitled NYC epicenters September twenty twenty one and a half. In an interview with the New York Times, Lee said the amount of heat that it takes to make steel melt, that temperature's not reached. And then the juxtaposition of the way the Building 7 fell to the ground, when you put it next to other building collapses that were demolitions, it's like you're looking at the same thing. For saying this, Lee was excoriated by the press, which usually lionizes him. He suggested the official nine eleven narrative might be wrong, and for doing so, he was called an anti Semitic conspiracy theorist by the Times of Israel. In the end, Lee re edited his docu series and removed portions that were skeptical of the official story of the collapse of Building 7. Where do you keep your most valuable possessions? Not your necktie or a pair of socks, but things you wouldn't want to replace or maybe couldn't. Heirlooms from your parents, birth certificate, your firearms, your grandfather's shotgun. Where do you store those? Under the bed? In the back of a closet? No. That's unwise and maybe unsafe. Liberty Safe is the place to store them. I would know I have a colonial safe from Liberty Safe. It's in my garage. It's the best. I keep everything in there. It's a ProFlex system, allows you to design the inside of your safe in a way that works for you. It's not a fixed setup. Someone else puts the shelves in, you have to deal with it. You make it the way you want it. Have a stock of rifles? You can make room. Need more shells for handguns, for documents, for valuables, for gold. You can do whatever you want. You can refigure your safe in minutes. Maximum flexibility, maximum convenience. Liberty Safe is America's number one safe company made in The United States. Great people. I know them. Visit libertysafe.com. Use the code Tucker 10 at checkout for 10 off. Franklin and Colonial Safe featuring the ProFlex interior that you customize. You're gonna dig it. We definitely plus they're good looking, I will say. Another unusual aspect of Building Seven's collapse is that some media outlets reported it happened before it actually happened. Here's footage of the BBC reporting that Tower 7 was down. Keep in mind, this was filmed live twenty minutes before Building 7 actually collapsed. Speaker 5: Jane, what more can you tell us about the Salomon Brothers building and its collapse? Speaker 0: Salomon Brothers was Building Seven's major tenant. You can see the tower in the background of the shot. Was that just rushed reporting on the day of the attacks? Or did the BBC have advanced word that the building was coming down? If the media did have foreknowledge of the events that day, they weren't alone. Buried deep in the nine eleven commission report on page four ninety nine, one easily missed footnote says there was a surge in put options, investments that profit when stock prices fall. These put options were put against United Airlines parent company, They were placed on September 6 and then against American Airlines on September 10. Incredibly, the report goes on to note that 95% of the trade against United Airlines was made by a single US based institutional investor. So who was that investor? Well, we don't know. The US government is still hiding his name. They refuse to tell us. Why? No one will say. The commission report says an investigation by the FBI found out the trades were, quote, innocuous, whatever that means. Researchers have since discovered that these trades are far from innocuous, with trading volumes showing statistical significance, massive statistical significance. There were other trades too. On September 7, the number of put options placed against British Airways was four times the normal volume. The number of put options against American Airlines on the day before the attack was 285 times the normal volume. In the days before the attacks, put options surged against Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch. Both banks had sizable offices in the World Trade Center. There were also notable surges in gold and oil call options in advance of the attacks. But who could have known the attacks were coming apart from Al Qaeda? One highly significant, yet often overlooked aspect of the nine eleven attacks, is that foreign intel agencies, including those of ostensible allies, likely had detailed prior knowledge of the event. Speaker 7: These nine eleven hijackers had come from Germany. Were the Germans asleep at the switch, or did they just not tell us anything about these people? Speaker 0: John Kiriakou was chief of counterintelligence on the Bin Laden unit. Speaker 7: What about the Israelis? What about the Saudis? There is solid evidence that members of the Saudi royal family were working with Al Qaeda terrorists. Speaker 0: The nine eleven commission, not surprisingly, ignored this subject altogether. Here's what we know. As early as January 2001, France's foreign intelligence service learned that Al Qaeda was planning a hijacking plot involving a US airline. What did the French tell The United States and when? We don't know. But the French are not alone. Others knew. Well, there's no doubt that the Israelis and probably the British had better information than the people Speaker 8: working against Osama bin Laden and the agency much better information. Speaker 0: Michael Scheuer ran the CIA's bin Laden unit in the late 1990s. One reason foreign governments may have had superior information is that the NSA frequently shared signals intelligence details with them, details it withheld from our own CIA. Signals intelligence is a type of espionage that deals with intercepting phone calls and radio communications. Speaker 8: We needed the collection of signals intelligence out of Afghanistan, and since there was no central telephone company or communications companies, it was very limited. You had to be lucky to find the signal. Well, we found a couple of signals, and we shared the information with NSA, and they collected information and wouldn't share it with us in the raw form. NSA reports are generally summaries of what people say over the phone. You don't really know always who's talking to who. The first thing we did when we got the first copies of translated material, we sent them to NSA and said, can you please provide the other half of this to us? And they said, thank you very much, but under the 1947 act that created NSA, we don't have to share that with anyone and we're not going to. But somehow, the Israelis and the Saudis always were able to find out something was there that they wanted. And so when we refused, they'd call the White House, the White House had called the DCI, and the DCI would say give it to them. Speaker 0: We know very little about NSA's foreknowledge of nine eleven because the nine eleven commission barely investigated it. Keep in mind, the NSA is the largest American intel agency by far, And yet, the commission never assigned a staff member to research NSA files, in part because some of the nine eleven commissioners and staff simply did not understand what the NSA was and what it did. Even now, the NSA's terrorism archives still have never been thoroughly reviewed by outside investigators. If someone ever did go through those files, they'd likely find a treasure trove of previously undisclosed warnings about the nineeleven attacks. The NSA was the primary agency responsible for monitoring the switchboard through which Al Qaeda operatives communicated with each other. Speaker 8: It's certainly an absurdity for what American people pay for signals intelligence to be collected, translated, and supplied to the intelligence community to have the British, the Saudis, the Israelis getting information from our national security agency that we are, we and the agency were not privileged enough to get. Speaker 0: A number of foreign governments may have had foreknowledge of nine eleven, but the Israeli government stands out in particular. And here's why. On the morning of 09:11, a group of five Israeli nationals purported to have witnessed the initial explosion of the World Trade Center and were seen to be celebrating the event. At the time, the celebrations received quite a bit of mainstream media coverage. Speaker 9: Fox News has learned some US investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on The US, who may have known things they didn't tell us before September 11. Speaker 0: It's striking to see operatives from a supposedly allied country celebrating the mass murder of Americans. But it is true that some in Israel saw the attack as a good thing for them. A 09/12/2001 article in the New York Times quotes now Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responding to the nine eleven attacks. Quote, it is very good, before adding, well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy. Netanyahu predicted that the attack would strengthen the bond between our two peoples because we've experienced terror over so many decades, but The United States has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror. According to FBI documents, the Israelis caught celebrating the nine eleven attacks had videotaped the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and may have possessed foreknowledge of the same. When the Israelis were arrested in New Jersey, they were carrying box cutters, multiple passports, thousands of dollars in cash, and photos of themselves smiling with the World Trade Center burning in the background. Speaker 8: The Israelis are always for the Israelis first, last, always. They don't like The United States except, for the most part, our money. And yet our National Security Agency is producing information for them but not shareable with its own people. Speaker 0: Go figure. According to FBI records, polygraph tests administered by the FBI suggested that they did not have foreknowledge of the attacks, but did engage in deception and were likely involved in illegal foreign counterintelligence. They were spying in The United States. The leader of the group, a man called Dominic Suter, fled to Israel on or around 09/14/2001, and he was later included on an FBI anti terror watch list distributed to European allies in May 2002. Most of the Israelis were held in FBI detention for two and a half months before they were deported for visa violations, a common way to expel foreign intel assets from allied countries. Speaker 7: The Israelis pride themselves on having infiltrated every Arab intelligence service, every terrorist group. Did the Israelis know about nine eleven and not tell us? Speaker 0: One memorandum submitted to the nine eleven commission presented substantial evidence suggesting that numerous art students from Israel, who were in fact Israeli intel assets, have been strategically across The United States. It's hard not to notice that they lived near the future nine eleven hijackers. Speaker 8: There were groups of Israelis traveling around the country as artists, sketching things happened happened to be one time around Cape Canaveral, remember, and other places where there were certainly things to to paint and sketch, but also noticeably near military installations or some other kind of installation in the government. So I think that's an open question yet. Speaker 0: The so called Israeli art students centered their operations in Hollywood, Florida and Northern New Jersey. Those are the exact locations of the hijackers before the attack. According to the memorandum, quote, it is very difficult to believe based on the existing evidence and the location of their common central operating bases, that this group was not tracking the future hijackers and their collaborators as well. According to the Ford, a Jewish publication, quote, the Israeli government acknowledged the operation and apologized for not coordinating it with Washington. Within a week of the attack, Israeli intelligence officials claimed they warned The United States about large scale terror attacks on highly visible targets in The United States. But the specifics of those warnings have never been made public. There's no evidence they happened. Speaker 8: In fact, in the whole time I worked in counterterrorism from '92 till 02/2004, I never saw one piece of information from Speaker 0: the Israelis that was really worth anything. As Americans, we need Washington to create a new, truly independent commission, one that does not lie, and that instead investigates what happened on 09/11 and answers the questions we've posed in this episode: Who made the decision to ship the debris from the attacks out of this country immediately, and why? What was the role of the CIA office in Building 7? What signals intelligence did the NSA have in relation to the plot? And how much of it did they share with foreign governments? What did those foreign governments know and fail to tell The United States? The American public deserves answers immediately to those questions. These are all questions the nineeleven Commission itself ignored. Why did the FBI's most wanted poster for Osama bin Laden, updated in November 2001, omit any mention of the nineeleven attacks? Why did it take the government five years to release footage of the Pentagon? And why were there only two publicly available videos of the Pentagon crash? The Pentagon was one of the most heavily secured and surveilled buildings on planet Earth. And yet, even now, more than twenty years later, there are only two videos. Why did US forces abruptly bury Osama bin Laden at sea and never release any photograph of his body? How hard, by the way, would it be for amateur pilots with only to navigate to Lower Manhattan and crash into a building? The majority of hijackers were flagged for additional screening at the airport. How did they get on those watch lists? And why didn't security slow them down? Why wasn't there substantial wreckage of Flight 93 at its supposed crash site in Shanksville, Pennsylvania? We were told the crash of that aircraft was so powerful that it vaporized the aircraft's hull, and yet the hijackers' passports were found intact at the site. How does that work? And who was being protected by the commission's unwillingness to answer these questions? Someone was. None of these questions were even asked by the nineeleven Commission. It's time that someone asked them and that the government answers them. On 09/11/2001, nearly 3,000 people were murdered. In the years that followed, hundreds of thousands more perished as a result of our response to those attacks. The government enacted measures that suspended constitutional protections. The freedoms this country was created to protect are gone now. The government employed illegal warfare tactics, including torture and the murder of innocent individuals. Those attacks fundamentally altered the way America operates, the way all of us live here. And yet not everyone suffered in the aftermath of nine eleven. Some emerged the winners. Reveal who profited from nine eleven in the next installment of our series. Thank you for watching the nine eleven files. The next episode drops next week, or you can unlock the entire five part series right now, ad free, by becoming a TCN member. Members also get access to the watch companion, a guide to the timeline, the key figures, the primary sources that we went to to bring you this documentary. You can read along as you watch. Join us today at tuckercarlson.com for the whole series all at once to support our investigative work. We couldn't do any of this without our members. We're grateful for you, so thanks.
Saved - October 11, 2025 at 1:38 AM
reSee.it AI Summary
I believe UFOs are real, and they’re here. I say forces have sold lies for 70 years to keep us from talking about UFOs. Why are they so desperate to hide the truth? Do they know more than they’re letting on? Representative Tim Burchett is one of the few who wants answers, joining The Tucker Carlson Show to reveal what he’s learned in Congress. He talks UFOs, insider trading, political blackmail, and more. Watch the full episode below.

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

UFOs are real, and they’re here. Government forces are selling lies to get the public to not talk about UFOs. They’ve been doing it for 70 years. Why is that? How come they’re so desperate to keep people from the truth? Do they know more than they’re letting on? Is the threat greater than anyone imagines? Representative Tim Burchett is one of the few political figures earnestly interested in uncovering what’s really happening, and he joined The Tucker Carlson Show to blow the whistle on the shocking things he’s learned as a member of Congress. Watch this conversation on UFOs, why Congress hasn’t banned insider trading, how political blackmail works, and more. Watch the full episode below.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

Rep. Tim Burchett wants the government to tell the truth about UFOs, and stop insider trading in Congress. He hasn’t had much luck with either one. (0:00) What Is the UAP Phenomenon? (11:15) Why Is the US Government Lying About UFOs? (19:36) Why Tech Companies and Defense Contractors Want UFO Documents to Stay Classified (25:32) Non-Human Technology and Underwater UFOs (29:20) The Disinformation Campaign (39:13) Sworn Testimonies Claiming They Identified Aliens (44:22) Will Donald Trump Declassify UFO Documents? (45:27) What Were the New Jersey UFO Sightings? (48:39) Insider Trading Is Out of Control (1:02:53) The Attempts to Destroy Burchett (1:11:35) Has Burchett Been Threatened in Congress? (1:13:40) Will America’s Debt Be Our Downfall? (1:15:03) Are Members of Congress Compromised? (1:21:19) Burchett’s Friendship With George Santos (1:30:36) Are We Alone in the Universe? Includes paid partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
Tim Birchett contends there is a “seventy year ongoing disinformation campaign by the US government to sow confusion” about UFOs/UAPs. He says Ezekiel’s wheel describes a landing gear and “modern day flying saucers,” drawing on Bible interpretation. He recounts pushing for disclosure, a hearing with large attendance, and a redacted “fluff piece” report. On the UAP disclosure act of 2023, he notes it “required disclosure” but “did not pass in the Senate”; Schumer’s commission would be “a Warren Commission” analogy. He argues secrecy stems from the “industrial war complex” and defense contractors who “do not want this released,” aided by compartmentalization and FOIA limits. He criticizes insider trading in Congress, claiming leadership blocks reforms, and discusses George Santos, who he says is “in solitary confinement” for “campaign finance violation.” He calls for a new nine eleven commission at newcommissionnow.com.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Thank you, congressman, for doing this. I never talk about It's Tim. Thank you, Tim. Never talk about UFOs. We don't do shows on UFOs, UAPs, whatever they're calling them, these mysterious lights, these objects, because I know for a dead certain fact that there is an ongoing seventy year ongoing disinformation campaign by the US government to sow confusion. Some people participating in that effort, I don't think they know they're participating in the effort, but they are nevertheless selling lies in an effort to get people off the trail of what this really is. There is something going on. What is it? It's so hard to know. You're one of the few people, from my perspective, who seems sincere. You're also informed as a member of Congress, and so I'm just grateful that you're doing this because I think you're gonna be telling the truth. So what are these things? Speaker 1: Well, don't know. I think there's a lot of different misconceptions about them. I kinda came into it organically, guess. I had pretty cool parents, they would just take me to the library and just let me stay or I'd ride my bike over and stay a couple hours and grew up in the seventies in Tennessee and I guess now you'd probably taken to DCS or something for that. Yeah. I went in there and I can remember there was a stack of books on a thing and you know, they had all the, you know, something on maybe the occult or something like that, and then Bigfoot, and then there's something on UFOs. And I picked up the UFO books, started reading about it, and it it just fascinated me. I read the Bible, I'm a Christian, I'm not a very good one obviously, but my chosen profession. But the Bible talks about Ezekiel saw the wheel and Yep. People always say, well, that was a dream. You know, they always try to over explain things in the Bible and I just think it was it's written for simple folks like me. And I agree with that. And it was a translation though. And at the time, the most technologically advanced item that they had was a wheel, and it describes a wheel within a wheel. Exactly. And it describes a landing gear and all these other things that we would today say are modern day flying saucers. Speaker 0: And it's pretty specific, and it's a pretty the Ezekiel passage you're referring to is it it it's not just like a parenthetical note. It's like a it's like a whole description. Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. He goes into it. He describes, I think, the landing gear, in some translations, talks about it being hooves of animal, like the hoof of an animal, which if you see, you know, you see when we went to the moon that there's the landing gear, the you know, it's got a pad, if we actually went to the moon. I know there's a lot of people out there who don't believe it. Speaker 0: I'm arching my eyebrows, but we'll refrain from comment. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. But the but but I'm laying on my couch, fast forward, I'm in congress. I'm laying on my couch and I'm getting ready to go to sleep, I sleep in my office and shower in the gym. I'm not, as my banker says, he called me one day and said, said, brother, he said, I'm pretty sure that you're the most honest member of Congress, but I know you're the poorest. So I do that. And so I was watching, there was a thing on UFOs, they were talking about some former members were involved in some stuff trying to find out something. I thought, you know, I'm gonna start asking some questions. And then I'm walking down the street and the center of all media in Washington DC, TMZ, his name's Colin, he's a good friend of mine. We've been to lunch and hang out some, but he stopped me and I didn't know who he was and he said, hey, I'm with TMZ. He said, what do think about this UFO report that's getting ready to come out? And I said, brother, it'll look like it was shot with a shotgun because it'll be it'll be all redacted. Oh, yeah. And and then and I said, and if it and it won't come out when they say it's gonna come out. And I said, really? Why? And I said, well, probably because the original report is probably gonna have something in it and they're gonna pull it back. And sure enough, they did, redacted and it was just a big fluff piece, nothing. And then I said the magic words, which I end up putting on one of my t shirts, which I sell on my website, that more people believe in UFOs than believe in Congress. And And for good reason. And for great reason. And so people started calling me, you know, all these national figures that you see, reporters, legitimate reporters like yourself, people from all over the country. And so I start asking questions, and and I get with Luna and some other folks. Matt Gates was involved in it at the time. And we went to the chairman and said, let's have a let's have a hearing. And I think they really Tucker, I think they just pat us on the head and said, sure, we'll have the hearing, you know, and they're gonna make fun of you and go on. Turned out, I talked to some old timers that were there, reporters, they said that was the most attended hearing they'd ever had. They had to open up another room and there were people lined up down the hall. When I walked out at I see it was, I guess, in the morning, I walked out of office, had to be on an early show about it. At 04:30 in the morning, people were already lined up outside the building, and they come from all over the country. One guy came on his vacation, and there was ministers there, there's people, so it really touched a nerve. You're not hoping for disclosure. That's exactly right, the truth, and they're tired of being told they're idiots. And the funny thing about it all is, is that when I go to speak to groups, it never fails that somebody of prominence will come, a doctor, a lawyer, a PR person will come up to me and say, hey, I had an experience. I was sitting at a I was helping out a colleague, rarely go out of town. This is kind of unusual for me, this is kind of a interesting deal for me up here. But I went to another congressman's district to help him run for reelection. We were sitting in a country club, and I'm not a country clubber type, as you can probably tell. Jackie Gleason said, wouldn't join a country club but have somebody like me, I'm sort of like And that I sit next to this lady and she was classy. You could tell she was she was old money, she wasn't new money, she wasn't she had nice jewelry on and she had the clothes you could tell were were nice, and she was she was just a classy lady. And she said she said, Kyerson, about those UFOs? And I thought, oh, here it comes, I'm gonna get popped. And she said, I had an experience when I was in college. She said she talked about going to pick up her brother, and this thing followed them down for several minutes. It was cylindrical shaped and it followed them, I think it was close to dark and it was kinda lit up, it had a I think a bluish tint to it or something and it followed them for quite some time. And then it just took off and they were like, what in the world was that? And this was in the seventies. And she said, I really haven't really told many people that. And I get stories like that. I had a and and when they film you, when I was early on in Congress, I had plenty of time, obviously, had been the four hundred and thirty fifth most powerful member of Congress. And you know, these history channel, these folks would come interview me, and they would do one time they interviewed me for like an hour. So they would take segments of that and put that out for just multiple issues of their TV show, hunting UFOs or whatever. And I remember I was in Nashville at the time, and a colleague, a former state legislator, a guy who was in leadership, called me up, and I remember he and it was kind of ironic that he was back back in East Tennessee, and I was in Nashville for a get together. Was throwing for our state legislators because nobody ever when I was in legislature, nobody ever did anything for us from congress, and I just get down there and throw them a spaghetti dinner or something. And the phone rang and it was him and he said, Timbo, he said, I just saw you on TV on the UFO show. And I said, really? And I thought, here it comes, he's gonna pop me. He said, let me tell you a story about when I was in the navy. And he's older, and he was hollering back at his wife, what year was that? And she would holler. It was I think it was in the late fifties. And he was on a I believe it's a tin can, but that's a destroyer. You probably know more. But anyway, he was in the navy, and he said they were it was early on when they were first putting nuclear missiles on subs, they were unloading a missile for the sub, and he said the sub got out there, and then this thing just flew over the top of him. He said, I remember when he said, Timbo, if that thing was two city blocks, it had to be two city blocks wide. He said it was cylindrical, and he named it, and he described it, and then he said, and he just took off, no noise, no heat, no vapor, nothing. And they all just stood there and we're talking and they're going, what the heck was that? Yeah. You know? And then they get back on shore, they go back to shore, and he said that, you know, the man in the sea, he said, I figured it was CIA or something. And they said, if y'all don't this is national security. If you ever talk about this, you'll be busting rocks for the rest of your life if you're lucky. 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It begins at cozyearth.com. Use the code Tucker for 20% off. That's cozyearth.com. Code Tucker. And if you get a post purchase survey, let them know that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on this show. Because home is not just where you live, it's how you feel. Cozy Earth, the best. So that attitude has not changed? Speaker 1: Not one bit. Speaker 0: No. And the question is, why? Know, why would the US government have an interest in lying about something that's visible to millions of people around the world? So many people, as you just said, have had the experience of seeing them in person. Why would they have an interest in hurting those people, calling them crazy Right. Threatening them, etcetera. So tell us about your experience as you've pushed for more disclosure. What kind of reaction have you received? Speaker 1: I think the arrogance from the federal government, there's a control thing that you see in every aspect of government. Everybody in power wants to keep you out of their little circle of power. Speaker 0: Yeah, of course. Speaker 1: And I think the monetary concern is there. Could you imagine if they had something that could heat homes in the summer in the in the winter and cool them in the summer and had zero cost. I mean, it's something that we could it it would put everybody out of business. The war pimps at the Pentagon would have to go out of business. They wouldn't we wouldn't have to be in wars all over the world, which are if you get down to it, it's about oil. It's always about oil. And so you've got the greed factor, you got the power factor, and then you've got just the arrogance. The Bible talks about professing themselves to be wives that became fools. That's right. And there's nobody in Washington that doesn't think they're wise. Speaker 0: I wonder though, I mean, for sure, so you think this is an effort to hide the existence of superior technology because it's a threat to existing industry? Speaker 1: I think that's part of it. And also but it's like this. We're motorcycle guys. Say I took a Say if took a brand new Indian or Harley Davidson down to back in time to the Mayflower or whatever and gave it to them, they would maybe shine it. They wouldn't know how to do anything. Mean, course, we don't have carburetors, they wouldn't know how to do anything with fuel injection. They probably couldn't ever make the fuel high enough octane where it'd kick it off. They maybe could get it started if they got lucky at some point. But that would be a rarity. I think that's sort of if there is something that they can't they don't know what it is. And I think too, they have compartmentalized this stuff. So you think FOIA, I'm gonna freedom of information. Everybody says, well, just freedom of information at Birchick, go to Area 51. There's nothing at Area 51. They moved it to Right Pad or something else since then. But the point is is that everybody in government is looking down the barrel or looking in their little area, and to their knowledge, most of those people are telling the truth. And they send it off to these these there's five or six corporations that it's been in it's been disclosed in in hearings that we think probably has some of this technology. But it has been so compartmentalized. The people I mean, there's nobody alive that was around when in Roswell of '47. That's right. An instance that happened in Texas and others all over the all over the world. And so they don't really know what they're looking at. They're looking at something, and they've they've associated it or given it to these corporations that have a quasi governmental connection, but they're far enough apart where I can't go foyer, I can't go foyer forward. I mean, I could, but they're just gonna tell me go jump in the lake. I'm not gonna tell you. Speaker 0: But I'm I guess I'm stumbling over kind of the most basic claim that they make, which is that all this information is classified. Yep. On what grounds could the federal government justify classifying reports of things that its servicemen have seen? Speaker 1: Every time it's national security, Tucker. What does that mean? I I don't know, but they but you have a group of people that are so afraid of the, well, the industrial war machine that funds their campaigns. So you go to these you look at all the people that that that stop. When I have a disclosure bill, I just wanna know. Yeah. I'm not saying they're out there, but we're spending tens of millions. Every department, FBI, CIA, I'm pretty sure TVA doesn't, but they probably should. But there's probably every every alphabet agency in the country has a have a has a wing that's investigating these things. NASA. They are all doing it. They're all doing they'll admit that they're they're looking at something, but then you come to them, they say they don't exist, but we need the money to do it. And now the interesting thing is Speaker 0: And that's in the budget. Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. And now the interesting thing is is that the is that they've seen that the opinion polls are showing that over half the people in the country believe something else is going on. Of course. And so now they're saying, hey, we need money to study this. I mean, it's it's the cat going after its tail, really, and it's just a circular thing that they're just after money and they don't really care. Speaker 0: Of course. They don't well, that's for sure. But there is a process by which the congress demands disclosure, and that process has been thwarted. And I'm just interested in getting details on how that happens. So the UAP disclosure act of 2023, I think? Speaker 1: Yeah. Required disclosure. That passed, right? Allegedly. But again, who's gonna enforce it? Speaker 0: So but what did that do you remember what that act required? Speaker 1: It is I do not believe it passed the one that I'm thinking about did not pass in the senate because remember I had the bill, it was two pages long for disclosure. Speaker 0: What did it say? Speaker 1: And then it just said, if it dealt with UAP's UFOs, it disclose it. If it if a file contains it, America has the right to see it unredacted. And Chuck Schumer's was several 100 pages long and it was celebrated by everybody, and it set up a commission very similar to the Kennedy assassination, which here we are, sixty plus years later and still, they're telling us this single bullet that was in You're Gunman that they found on a gurney that was basically unscratched an hour and a half after the assassination in the hospital at Lakeland. Speaker 0: After going through two bodies. Speaker 1: After two bodies and bone and everything else, and it doesn't it Speaker 0: just Schumer's solution was we needed a Warren Commission to tell us Speaker 1: the truth about Who can decide? And that basically would just cover it up. And I trust So why would Speaker 0: of course, of course, there's but why would Chuck Schumer do that? Like, what's his motive? Do you have any idea? Speaker 1: I think his staffers drew up the bill, and I think, honestly, in their in their mind, they probably thought it was the right thing. But here's my thing about staffers. Everybody wants to talk about the swamp, and I always go through this. A swamp is something pretty cool. God created a swamp. I grew up frog gigging and fishing around swamps, they're pretty cool. They attract animals for good reason. And so Washington DC is not a swamp, it is a sewer. It is a man made creation. Now figure this, you've got a staffer and Republicans were supposed to be less government. I look at these we get these pictures made every year, every couple years, I don't know why. I've never seen the picture, I'm not gonna hang it up my dadgum office of your committee, and all the people on the committee and then all the staffers behind it. I counted one time on ours, I think it was close to in one of my committees, close to 50 people, and I guess for the Democrats who get 49 people. We're supposed to be less government, So you have a staffer, say that the committees are just too big, and too many of these chairman, the biggest mistake they make is we're gonna be different, we're gonna be different. And what do they do? They keep almost every dadgum staffer, and the staffer is already plugged in with the lobbyists, with the K Street crowd, and they're the ones probably getting a little trip somewhere, maybe going out for a steak dinner, going out for drinks, and they're compromised. And so I can't tell you how many times I've seen a good bill become a steady bill. Speaker 0: I completely agree, except in most cases, it's like obvious why industry would want to subvert the legislation. Like, they don't want the regulation. They don't want competition. You know, there are a lot of different obvious reasons, and you sort of see how the staffs are paid off, I get it. But UFOs, like, there a UFO lobby? Speaker 1: Well, there's that. Speaker 0: Who wants that? Who's paying for Speaker 1: that? I think And why? I think you've got major technology corporations, aeronautics, some of our missile defense people. For some reason, they do not want this released. Speaker 0: That's very weird because whatever is going on is clearly or would seem to be a threat to them. Speaker 1: Well, look at the Speaker 0: You don't control your airspace, which we don't. Right. Why is that not a problem for Raytheon? Speaker 1: Look at the financial disclosure of the people that always fight me on these bills. That's what I would tell you to do. Speaker 0: And if we were to do that, I Speaker 1: can think of one You see the names of a couple of those with those a couple of those corporations. Speaker 0: So it's defense contractors are the bottom line is Speaker 1: I think so. Speaker 0: Think what you're saying is that the defense contractors, for some reason, we can only speculate, don't want this information disclosed. That's correct. Well, that's Speaker 1: a very powerful lobby, of course. It's one of the most powerful ones. That's why we're that's why we're sending $600,000,000 to Ukraine and the National Defense Authorization, which I didn't vote for. I wanted to give our military more money, military fighting men more money, but I didn't wanna give the war pimps any more reason to Ukraine or any of these other wars we're in. No. And interesting about the $600,000,000, I was told by our leadership in conference that the president had requested that, and then I talked to the White House, and guess what? The president had not requested No, that's right. $600,000,000 though, Barton. What's that? Were they gonna do with that? Speaker 0: I watch people jump I mean, I'm not the world's great Trump expert, but I feel like I paid pretty close attention. I hear these people jump up and down. Trump want this is in the name of Trump. It's like, that's the opposite of what I think he wants, but whatever. Well, Grand Canyon University is not like most American colleges. It focuses on the things that actually matter. It is not a rip off. It is the real thing. It's private, affordable, Christian university located in the heart of Phoenix, one of the largest universities in the country actually. At Grand Canyon University, education is more than academics. It is about opportunity, the chance for every student to live out the right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. Rights are not given by the government. They were bestowed at birth, at conception by God. That's just a fact, and Grand Canyon University is not gonna lie to your kids and claim otherwise. It tells the truth. So, you know, you're thinking a quality education is rare, so this probably costs a fortune. Colleges constantly jack up their costs. They probably do the same. Well, they don't actually. GCU has maintained the same tuition for 17. They're not in education to get rich at the expense of students. The whole thing is actually about learning. How refreshing. With flexible online classes, hybrid learning options, GCU offers three forty academic programs. Students benefit from a collaborative learning environment, dedicated faculty, personalized support to help them achieve their goals. The pursuit to serve is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University private, Christian, affordable. G c u dot e d u. So I'm not surprised by anything that you've said, but I do think it it raises, like, the the core question, which I still am confused by. It's like, why would Raytheon be so opposed to the disclosure of this information? So what exactly hap where are we with disclosure? Speaker 1: A lot of people think that they're that these folks are the ones that have the material from whatever craft or whatever it is. That's what I've been told by people in government that are in the know. And it was funny, it was like These Speaker 0: companies have benefited from technology from Speaker 1: whatever these things are. Apparently, that's what they're telling me. Speaker 0: Yeah. And inform people, not Speaker 1: just people No, not just some guy on the street. And it's funny, I've had the deep throat moment where Nixon was overthrown and somebody comes up to me in the hallway, in a crowded hallway, somebody who I would consider a friend and said, Birchit, man, you really don't need to be doing this stuff, don't you? Man, you're kicking the hornet's nest on this thing. Speaker 0: On the UFO stuff? Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. And I've had them try to use it against me in campaigns and things, but, you know, they don't we don't ever raise enough money to to matter anyway. Speaker 0: Use it against you in campaigns? Speaker 1: Yeah. And the Whisper campaign or they put it on the Internet, Birch, you know, all he cares about is this. No. I just care about where's the tens of millions of dollars going. Speaker 0: I have a Speaker 1: right to know. Speaker 0: Well, it's not like this is the biggest story in our in human history Yeah. I would think. Speaker 1: I mean, like, what is that? Are we alone? Yeah. Speaker 0: Clearly not. And so you're satisfied, just to get to basics here quickly, you're satisfied that whatever we're seeing in the skies and have since at least the Second World War, since at least the development of nuclear weapons Yep. Since Hiroshima, whatever that is, is not foreign military. Speaker 1: No. Because here here it is. If it was Russian, I mean, honestly, Putin with his ego, he would ride bare chested down Pennsylvania Avenue, get out of UFO, wrestle a bear on the front porch of the White House and get back in his UFO. Mean, he wouldn't be bogged down in Ukraine. If it was China, they would own us. They clearly partially own us now. And if it was America, you wouldn't see Trump standing on an aircraft carrier, and a jet flies by and breaks the sound barrier, and everybody freaks, thinks that's the coolest thing in my mind. Mean, it would be something a lot cooler than that. And so I just don't think we have that technology or we're able to utilize it. Speaker 0: So you've so in the course of your probing into this, no one's ever taken you aside and said, hey, Birchit, back off a Speaker 1: little bit. This is our stuff. We don't wanna disclose it. Pretty close to that. Pretty close Speaker 0: to that. You don't believe it? You don't think this is our technology? Speaker 1: No. I do not. There's no way. It is our tech no way is our technology. There's and I've talked to too many pilots. Why would we risk why would we risk our best I mean, I've talked to the best I've talked to the best pilots in the world that are ours, some of them, not all of them, and that have told me. Mean, one guy, I remember I was at Capitol Hill Club, was just an unusual encounter. A guy had spoke to a group and he followed me out and said, you know Tim, or congressman or whatever, he said that thing was 14 feet. He went like this from my canopy. And I thought to myself, why didn't he say 15? Why didn't he say 20? But he said 14. And then he said this thing, it wasn't ours. And he said, I don't know what it was, but it wasn't ours. And that's all he said. And I had a very high ranking member of the Navy describe some underwater experiences they'd had with something that was doing 200 miles and the best thing we got was probably 40 Speaker 0: Was doing 200 miles an Speaker 1: hour underwater. Underwater, big as a football field, and that's no fish. Speaker 0: So is it possible, given our current understanding of physics, for any man made machine to go anywhere near 200 miles an hour underwater? Speaker 1: Not with our technology, no. The best we have is probably in in the high thirties. And he was converting it, of course, knots is what the the navy guys would do, but there's nothing Speaker 0: If I fire a 30 aught six or any high caliber rifle underwater, it doesn't go 200 miles an hour. I can I can probably catch it in the length of a swimming pool Yeah? Or so. Speaker 1: Yeah, or it just falls down. Speaker 0: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, it's like Speaker 1: So we've got and this described to me in areas and I was quoted on was just all I do is quote people that have knowledge, but this was one that was he was talking about, there are five or six I think deep water areas of the ocean. You've traveled a lot, I have not. There's not a lot of deep water areas around East Tennessee at Fort Loudoun Lake or anything, but you're talking miles deep. And of course, you've heard this before, we know more about the surface of the moon than we do the surface of the ocean. And he said these are areas where we see a high propensity of these UFOs. And there was a case where was fairly well documented. They had multiple sightings. They were doing maneuvers and had the ships or boats, whatever you wanna call them out there, I'm not a navy guy. And there was the sighting in the air and these and the pilots radioed back and said, hey, is there something going on? Is there another operation? We got some secret technology stuff we're working on. I said, don't have any and they Pentagon, nobody nobody knew about anything. And they pulled it back and then they pulled everything back, scrubbed the mission. And then the next day all their internet traffic had been scrubbed, but this guy was kind of a wonk and he'd made copies of it. But my you know, the point I have there is why would we risk multi million dollar apparatus? And why would we put something in the air around our best pilots that could have a crash? Because these guys are talking about there's actually you know, they've had come close to collisions. Why would they do that? They would not do that. That would be stupid. I mean, there's even even, you know, I always say military intelligence, so I like congressional ethics. I don't think it really exists much anymore. Speaker 0: I've noticed. Speaker 1: But anyway, I just don't think that we'd be risking that. So that's my proof that it's not ours. Speaker 0: So how many military personnel have you spoken to about Speaker 1: their personal experiences with these things? I'd say, well, I don't know, eight or nine, ten maybe. But I have to be real careful because I'm clearly somebody out there, I'm not backing down on it. I'm not ashamed of it or anything, but I don't. Speaker 0: You have no reason to be ashamed of it. No. Why would you be ashamed Speaker 1: of Well, that's what they try to do is they try to shame people. Speaker 0: Oh, are you are you hiding relevant secrets from the American public? I don't think you are. No. But Why are they ashamed? Speaker 1: Well, I have to be careful about the white flags, the stuff they bring stuff people bring me that's not real. Speaker 0: Well, that's why we're talking to you. Yeah. Well, that's I've had a lot of people come to me with stuff like that. Speaker 1: Yeah. And I've got these pictures, and I wanna show you this. I've got this, you know, I'm always afraid I'm gonna end up on a in a refrigerator up in North Carolina or a freezer in North Carolina somewhere, you know, because I I don't I'm not going up there and checking out some guy's finds he's got. I'm, you know, and Speaker 0: but So wait. But do you think so I think what you're saying is the disinformation campaign run by whomever It's real. Well, it's definitely real. And I assume it's run by the US government or its satellites and the defense contractors, but part of the way that they discredit people who are interested in finding out what this is is by telling them false things, and then Speaker 1: They tried to destroy their careers. They did that to one of our guys, one of the very first person the first hearing we had, if you remember, some weekly newspaper reporter found out that one of the guys suffered from PTSD cover his military career. You know what? In Tennessee, we embrace that. My daddy pawned on Pella in Okinawa, until the day he died, I never woke him up over the top of him. I always woke him up by his big toe because he might have woke up on one of those dadgum islands and pinned me up against the wall. Unbelievable. And we celebrate our heroes, but Washington DC just destroys them. And to think that a weekly newspaper found out this guy's medical history, which is a total violation of the law, somebody should go to jail for it, but nobody did. They tried to destroy this guy, and that's what happens to people in Washington DC. That's what happens to our military heroes when they step out of line because of the the sewer or deep state or whatever you wanna call it. But that that that's what they and that's why we need we need real whistleblower protection for them. Speaker 0: Well, I agree with that completely, which we don't have. Speaker 1: No. And by the way, I Speaker 0: know two whistleblowers who are living outside the country because they can't come to The United States. Speaker 1: Sure. And I'll have people actually I've had people call me. One last thing, I'm in the Longworth Building. It's no secret. It's public record. But I've had people that'll call me or send message to me and wanna come by, and they won't come in that building and ask me if I can come outside. I've had people call me and wanna come to the house in East Tennessee And because they don't wanna come to Washington DC and talk to me. There's a well publicized television show that was on for a while that I didn't know they were coming. I mean, they said some people wanted to talk to me and it was a trusted friend. And I said, sure, send them, bring them up to come on up to DC. And I said, well, don't wanna come to DC. And they drove from wherever to my house in East Tennessee on a Saturday afternoon and then they put some stuff on a screen that was pretty compelling. What was it? It was aircraft flying at just crazy stuff that we can't do that would turn you or me into basically a ketchup package. It was not Speaker 0: No human being could handle the G Force? Speaker 1: No, not at our Well, with the technology we have, the G Force would just have just torn apart. And was it unmanned or whatever, I don't know. But these guys, and one of them was a Well, they were scientists, several of them were scientists. There's They Speaker 0: came to see you. Speaker 1: They came to see me. Yeah. Our because it's kind of Speaker 0: Wait, so what do do with that information? I try Speaker 1: to grasp it within my very small brain of what am I supposed to do with that. Ask God all the time, what do you want me to do with this stuff, Lord? And right now, I've just gotta get enough disclosure. I've come to the realization that nothing is ever gonna happen, Tucker, until we have somebody in the White House that says enough is enough, and just discloses it. And I hope President Trump, you know, I've had discussions with him privately and other times that I'm not I've talked to his people, but at some point there's several of us, Lona, myself, and several others that are concerned about this issue, and we want some answers. We've got none. We've got none. Speaker 0: Zero. Right. Zero. So you have definitely heard about Eight Sleep by now. Rested people you know are talking about it. It's a company with one mission, improve your sleep, and it's changing the way Americans get a good night's sleep, and trust me, they need it. So we just received word that their team is launching a new product. It's called the Pod five. The pod five is an original, totally innovative mattress cover plus a blanket that uses precision temperature control to regulate your body's sleep cycles and give you the perfect night's sleep. It ranges from 55 degrees for the cold plungers among you to the 110 degrees for the sauna fanatics. That means no matter what you prefer, you're covered, and the bottom line is you sleep better by up to an hour. It actually works. The pod also detects snoring and adjusts your bed's position to reduce or stop it. Woah. Beleaguered ladies across America rejoice as one. Everyone here can tell you there's no better way to be alert, productive, and happy than by getting a good night's sleep, and Eight Sleep can help. Visit 8sleep.com/tucker. Use the code Tucker to get $350 off your pod five ultra. If you don't like it, just return it within a month, but you're gonna love it. 8sleep.com/tucker. What is that? Speaker 1: I think that is the sewer. That is the industrial war complex. I think I've stated that in the in the committee. I think part of the thing they do is they outrun the clock. They outrun the clock. They, you know, we either stumble, one of us gets in trouble, or they get us in trouble, or they lose, or they move on to another object, you know, another shiny object somewhere else. Americans want their pizzas in thirty minutes or less, and that's about congress' attention span. Know? Because we're always on one, and then it's the hot issue, and then the news cycle changes. Two weeks later, we're on to something else. Speaker 0: So you guys are often members of congress are often briefed in skiffs. You know, it's a secure location, then they immediately go and call CNN and tell them, you know, everyone But was at the if a member of congress received, quote, classified information about UAPs and then immediately held a press conference and said, here's what I just heard and saw. And, yes, I'm breaking the law, but, like, tough shit. Why don't you do something about it? Yeah. What would happen? Speaker 1: I don't know. They say they can imprison us, but I don't they, you know, that's what we're told at the beginning. We're not even supposed to discuss some people will tell you, you can't even tell them that you've been in a skiff, but the press is waiting for you as soon as you walk out. Speaker 0: Who told who says that? Leadership of the party? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Leadership. Yeah. And they'll and I've been in a skiff before where they'll say anything discussed in here, we remind you is punishable by law and it's a felony. But the problem you get in there a lot of times is the arrogance and the lies that are told to us. They contradict, I mean, they'll contradict what another department has said, and they'll say this didn't happen, this didn't exist, and then another one will say, this is one we don't know, but we can't figure out, there's just no answer. It defies all of our reason. So these are Speaker 0: the briefers from various federal agencies that you're Speaker 1: And talking they're generally arrogant. There's one kid with a man bun, I always remember him. He was very arrogant. And then I asked him about some specific instances. There was one where we had a nuclear facility, something Buzz did, and the actual facility shut down. Speaker 0: Famously, Speaker 1: yep. Documented, and he In the Dakotas, think, Yeah, what I can't remember exactly. Read so many of these things, but and he said, I remember he said, we have no data points on that. And said, dude, it's in all Google it, it's everywhere. And I just I get very frustrated, Tucker. A lot of times I go to these classified briefings, part of the reason you go to a classified briefing is you get information, which I'm sure that's where a lot of the stock trading goes on. But I think they bring you in and tell you stuff you already knew so you can't even talk about it. I think it's a trap. I don't that's why I don't go to a lot of classified briefings because, again, I can just pick it up on the street right after But they walk Speaker 0: Congress funds the agencies that are briefing you. Speaker 1: That's correct. Speaker 0: So you could say to the man bun kid, you know, son, I pay your salary. Speaker 1: Yeah. So maybe you Well, it was during the Biden administration, so I was a little bit out of Speaker 0: Well, I mean, at this point, Republicans control the congress, so like Allegedly. I don't understand. I just I'm honestly baffled as to why Too Speaker 1: many there's too many it it crosses both lines, think. You know, that that money runs deep, and they contribute a lot to a lot of people. Speaker 0: So of the issues, and some are well known, I won't even bring them up here, but they're very well known, that have bipartisan consensus, you know, like both parties agree on this issue, you would say UAPs are one of those? Speaker 1: I would say they are. I mean, AOC's in there, I mean, they're all in there. You know, it's Speaker 0: just Does AOC show any interest in this topic? Speaker 1: She does. She does. I think she's concerned like everybody else. Where's where the tens of millions of dollars going? And I'm sure she could think about Well, what the hell Speaker 0: are these things? That's like an even deeper concern. Yeah. The money's fake. We just make it. Speaker 1: Yeah. We just print it. Yeah. But it's well, we've had you know, what are they? We've had sworn testimony where they'll tell you. They'll say, yeah. I've seen beings. There's a movie coming out. Speaker 0: And the testimony says, this is sworn testimony. Speaker 1: Sworn testimony, they've got they're beings and there's saucers or some craft or something. But there's a movie coming out pretty soon, if it's ever allowed to come out, I was in it a little bit, and then you have former members of the CIA, you have others that positively say they were there, and they identified these things, they diagnosed them and they saw them, they saw the craft. And there's enough people out there saying it, but they're just so suppressed and the media moves on so fast on something. And I've been on so many of these interviews and they're playing the theme from some crazy TV show or something before I come on, and they're just making a joke out of it, and I get it. People wanna laugh about it. I don't get it at all. Yeah. I mean, I I get the fact Speaker 0: like an absolutely I mean, it seems Speaker 1: They just wanna humiliate me and It's Speaker 0: a deadly serious topic objectively speaking. And if Speaker 1: It's a national defense issue. It's everything. It's everything. Worse. I mean, it's not a national. It's a world defense issue. Speaker 0: It's a lot more serious than Black Lives Matter or any the other nonsense that we've, you know, become obsessed with over the past generation. So, yeah, there's I mean, that tells you right there that's part of an operation designed to discredit people who ask questions. Yeah. Speaker 1: And I've had I've had military personnel call me and tell me that they've chased these things, they've been in the water. I had one guy tell me a story, he was an officer, and he was in the water fishing off, I think it was on the East Coast, and this huge craft flew over them. And then these several jets were flying, trying to keep up with it, and he identified the jets because he was obviously an Air Force officer. And he said, look, I just want you to continue on this thing. A lot of people have seen stuff. And he said, have. And I mean, he had a distinguished career. But it just continues on and on and on. And we get patted on the head and say, okay, you can have another hearing and then we do it. But until somebody in the White House says disclose or somebody walks out of one of these labs with something and shows it and puts it on YouTube before he's allowed to commit suicide, I think you're gonna that's the only way we're gonna get to the bottom of it because it will never it's so deep, the layers of the onions or onion is so deep, you just keep peeling it off and it's just a different person, a different story. You go over here and naivete of Congress, have members telling me, well, let's just get a let's go over here and get a know, we'll a tour of where you think these things are. I was like, dude, once we announce that, the U Haul vans are already been there and You know, it's it's not it's not that way. It's not gonna work that way. We're congress is not gonna walk in there with all its magnificence and arrogance and find something. 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It's been named best home security system for five years running, and there's a sixty day money back guarantee. Setup is super easy. The app is simple to use. The monitoring is reliable. Real peace of mind whether you're at home or not. And right now, you can save 50 percent on a SimpliSafe home security system at simplisafe.com/tucker. SimpliSafe, simpli,safe.com/tucker. There is no safe like SimpliSafe. If the public the public is being lied to by the government, if there's a, you know, continuous ongoing publicly funded campaign to lie to the American public by its own government, that is justification for overthrowing the government. That's my opinion. They can't do that in a democracy because we own the government. They don't. And so that alone, leaving aside the reality of UAPs, is, you know, it's enough for mean, why is it so hard for somebody in authority, either in the White House or in congressional leadership, to say, we want this information, we want it by the close of business today, or else you're fired, or we're gonna send soldiers in and get the information. I don't why is that hard? Speaker 1: I just don't think it's profitable for them. I think it's too much money and it goes too deep. And you have a lot of soldiers, they're not literally soldiers, but people just follow orders. And they think and they said it's national security, they think it's national security. So it sounds like you have no confidence that this stuff's gonna emerge. No. I have zero confidence on this side. I leave this earth, I'll know then. You will instantly. Instantly. But I don't have any confidence in anybody in Washington currently. I have confidence in Trump, I really do. I think we can talk to him seriously about this for a short amount of time, I think he'll just tell him to jam it, we're gonna do it. Speaker 0: Well, I mean, we had these sightings last year over New Jersey, over the whole Mid East Coast that the entire country saw on their own video. And we were gonna find out what those were, and then it was like, nah. It's totally full. We don't need to know what that like, what was that? Speaker 1: I I still think it was a it was part of Chinese influence. Think when they flew the balloon over, they wanted to it was fifties or sixties technology. They didn't have anything. They weren't mean, got enough spies on the ground in every university, in every think tank, in every national lab, whatever, they got them there. But they wanted to see what our response was. They saw our political response which was zero, our military response which was zero, and our press response. And the only thing was the people were outraged about it, you know, and they shot it down off the coast of Myrtle Beach. Speaker 0: So you think the drones, the so called drones over New Jersey last fall were a Chinese operation? Speaker 1: Something or something very similar. Somebody experimenting to see what our response would be because you you fly an airplane over the country and somebody's gonna pick it up, but you fly a drone, make it a small nukes, it could have been a biological agent. And I think now they know they could do that, or at least under Biden they could. They can't do it under Trump. Speaker 0: So if that was the Chinese who did that and the US government did nothing in Speaker 1: the I think they had contractors here that provided them with that. That's my theory. Any idea as to why the US government wanna keep that secret? No idea. Either then the current administration doesn't know because the people that knew are gone. I just think the past administration was smoke and mirrors. I mean, Joe Biden, if you ever had any conversations with him, mean it was clearly very clueless and it was very scary. If we'd have been in a position, whoever was calling his shots from the Obama administration scared me a lot. And of course, they were the puppet masters I feel like under Biden. And I felt like he and the people around him just ran amok. I mean, you saw with Speaker 0: the But why not, I don't understand and I'm trying to keep my growing rage under control. Like, why not tell Well, I'm outraged. Why not tell the public something true once in a while? Why the constant lying? Because if you're constantly lying, then by definition you're evil, and you don't wanna think that of your government, especially people you like in government, but like, why can't the public know anything ever? Do you have any theories? Speaker 1: Tradition. Tradition. Okay. I just don't, the more and more I know about government, I've been in this gift before and I've walked out. And I remember one time I called my wife, I said, honey, go to the store and buy canned goods. We're we're completely wide open. And she said, alright, sweetie. So what do we get for Speaker 0: a trillion dollars a year to the US military? Do we get anything in return? Speaker 1: We get some enhanced stock portfolios. And I'll give you a great example. When Joe Biden gave our military me, our missile defense system, I haven't voted for a penny for Ukraine, I'm proud of that. It's not my dadgum war, I'm not sending my 18 year old daughter to a country that most members of Congress couldn't find on a dadgum globe. And so you have we give them our our missile defense system and then we have to replenish ours, which we should. We can't be left naked without any of that defense. And guess what? Some of those contractors we described get a multi billion with a B dollar no bid contract. And who do you think has bought stock in that company? Members of Congress two weeks prior to the president making that official notice. And you see it time and time again. I mean, do you honestly believe members of Congress are making five and six? You've met some of these guys. I mean, they can't come in out of the rain, some of them. I mean, I'm guilty of that as well. But they're making 506100% Speaker 0: Yeah, a lot of really damaged Speaker 1: Return on their 506100% return on investment. And war is great for business. It's great for the economy, but it's not good for I don't think it's good for our souls. Speaker 0: Wouldn't No. No, there's nothing worse. Killing people is not good. I know that's a controversial statement. Yeah. But why is it is it impossible just to ban stock trading for members of Congress? Speaker 1: That's a great idea. I have the bill to do it That's why we have a bipartisan group again, myself and Priapall and never get her name right. But Cortez and me and Chip Roy and a bunch of others. We've a bill, but it's not going anywhere. Why? Because too many members of congress, I mean, we were told by leadership that these guys can't afford to be here. You know what? If you can't afford to be in congress and go get another dadgum job, more people have played professional baseball in the major leagues than have been in United States. A company that be an honor. Speaker 0: The idea is they should be allowed to do insider trading, which is a felony because Speaker 1: they All don't pay you gotta do is disclose it. And then if you don't disclose it, it's a slap on the wrist. I make skateboards and it's cheaper than a psychiatrist. I make them out of bamboo and banana fibers and crazy stuff, and it's a great Speaker 0: You make skateboards out Speaker 1: of bamboo? I do, I do. Speaker 0: A lot of congressmen do that? Speaker 1: No, I'd say one does. I'm pretty safe in betting that. And I would say it's cheaper than a psychiatrist, it's good. And I gave one to Tulsi Gabbard, and it gets views, people all over the country wanting to buy these things. So I'm a capitalist, I'm thinking, I'd like to sell a few skateboards. I go to the ethics people, I take my DC chief with me and she's very smart. My Knoxville chief is a lady, they're both incredibly smart ladies. So I take the DC lady with me and she's making notes. Mean, I gotta get an attorney involved in this thing, I have to have a business plan. You wanna do insider trading? Be a member of congress. You wanna sell skateboards? You better get you a dadgum lawyer. And that's what I'm having to do right now. I mean, I'm building a business plan But Speaker 0: leadership actually said to you we can't stop insider trading because they need the money? Speaker 1: Yeah. And they've and both parties. I mean, it's one of those you talk about one of those issues that both parties agree on, both party leadership does, and because they don't wanna upset the apple cart. And and America that would be such a a great thing to show America. Hey. We're gonna try to do what's right for once. Speaker 0: Do they know how much America hates them? Speaker 1: No. Every one of them. Every I always remember in my hometown when they did away with insider trading. I mean, I'm sorry, not insider trading. They did away with term limits. Excuse me. And they were interviewing some of the office holders. I remember one office holder said, I just don't know if this county is gonna exist without us. I don't see how they can go ahead. And and I thought it was like I checked my my calendar. Is this April Fools? I thought it was a joke. I thought they were actually kidding. You know? I mean, that is the Speaker 0: Arrogance County do? Speaker 1: We're still there. Speaker 0: Still there? Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. Great bond raising. Speaker 0: Wasn't consumed by fire. Speaker 1: That was no, no, the Lord didn't come down and crush us like Sodom and Gomorrah, but, you know. But anyway, they continuously forward to us, now we've we've pushed them. Now the head of the treasury says, you need to do it. Trump says to do it. And so Lona says, I'm bringing Birchitt's bill to the floor. I'm gonna do a dis you know, a discharge petition, and we're gonna bring it to the floor and get enough members to sign on. I don't know if we can or not, but we're gonna try. But here's the thing, Tucker. We'll pass a bill if we do, if the if leadership shines on us, and we'll pass a bill, and then it'll be a tough bill, and then the senate will pass one a little tougher on something we can't agree on. And then we'll say, look at those guys in the senate. You know, they're a 150 years old. They can't they're so crooked, and they'll say, look at us. We're a bunch of cretins. You know? We don't know what we're doing. And then it'll go away. And what we tried, and that's just the game they're playing. That is a game they play with everything, either that or it's a study committee. So many bills, and I was talking about that with the staff, they'll get you to, oh, don't do this bill, let's do a study bill and then come back next year with all this information. Tucker, have you ever seen that last scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark where they're going into that warehouse, it just goes on and on? I'm pretty sure that's where all the study committee bills go to after they pass them, and you put in your local newspaper, oh, look at this great bill. Because it has the same title, but it doesn't do anything. And then and then you don't and then next year, you don't pass anything. You you don't come back with anything because you've already so called passed your your your lame bill. And and that warehouse is full of all those reports. Because I've never seen I've never ever seen one of those reports after we passed those bills. No. Of course not. Speaker 0: I just wonder, though I mean, the details of this are interesting, but I think the broad outline is already known by the whole public, which is this is fake, and these people are in it for reasons that have nothing to do with the public interest. And I You know, everybody wants Speaker 1: to rail on Pelosi. She's not if you go on the unusual Wells website, she's not even in the top 10. Free insider trading. Yeah. She's I think she's number 11, but, Speaker 0: you know. Yeah. I know some of the people on that list. Speaker 1: I do too. I know every dad got one of them. And and there's a list of a 100. And my wife always checks it every year. She said, honey, I said, I know, sweetie. I mean, my 12 my buddy Tommy Saller manages my $12,000 portfolio. Everybody do like I do, put it in mutual fund. But I pulled it out last just recently just pulled it out so I could pay for my daughter's school, which is what I established it for in the first place. And when this airs, I'm gonna make a lot of enemies, and here's what's gonna happen. I'm gonna tell you without a doubt, maybe not since I'm gonna tell you. Speaker 0: How can they be mad at you? Speaker 1: Pointing out the obvious. Somebody will come down and sit beside me, somebody in leadership or somebody I'm friends with in Congress and say, hey, some of the guys are really upset with you on this. I say, well, I'm what? And they say, on this what you said on such and such. And I've said this before, said, and this will be a chapter of my book if I ever write it. And I said, but you know it's the truth, right? And they go, oh yeah, we know it's the truth, we just wish you wouldn't say it anymore. And I can't tell you how many times I've had that conversation. Speaker 0: But there's no shame, like we've all done bad things. Speaker 1: 12% of the population votes, Tucker. Nobody listen, it's a game. We need to start people start needing to get their grandkids to educate them how to how to get on the computer and and read these bills that we're passing, and look at the game we're playing with y'all. These 3,000 page spending bills that, you know, fund whatever you need for your lab or whatever, then you read down and it's funding circumcisions in Madagascar. I mean, things like that, literally. Speaker 0: Drag shows are abhorrent. Abortion, Speaker 1: which is abhorrent. And so it's just a game, and America needs to start paying attention. And members of Congress look, they always say, we need more people to vote, but as long as they're winning, that's what leadership's about in either party, is staying in power. It's having the suburban, it's being three deep with security, it's never standing in line at the movie theater or going to a ballgame or a concert. It becomes self preservation. Speaker 0: I remember when January 6 happened, and I was shocked I was completely shocked by it. And I was the Speaker 1: last house member to leave the floor on January 6. Speaker 0: Good for you. And I was like, wow. This is I hate vandalism, whatever. Now I look back, and I'm like, I understand exactly why they did that. I'm not mad about it at all. I think that Congress should have taken notice that people are really, really mad at Congress, and instead they just ignored it, and they're like, no, everyone who did it is Nazi, and we need more security. Really, that's your takeaway? You need more security? Maybe you need to act in a way that people respect so the country doesn't hate you because you're supposed to be representing the country. Speaker 1: And the 100 plus federal agents that were intertwined. Speaker 0: The whole thing was fake, I was yeah. I don't wanna get into it. Yes. No. I spent a lot of time fighting about this at Fox News when they you know, people resigned when I said, I think this was like a setup. Oh, I can't work with the Nazi. It turned out to be true. Speaker 1: Again, it's how many years later, and nobody cares. Speaker 0: Nobody cares. So it's not I'm sorry to make it about me. I didn't mean to do that. It's just I'm mad about the topic. But the point is Speaker 1: It's your show, brother. Speaker 0: No. No. No. But it's just it's about the Congress, and I think you need a legislative body, not against the congress in theory. What I'm worried about here's the point that I'm attempting to make in a long winded way, which is if you don't pay any attention at all to how people feel about you when your job is to represent those people, that system can continue. And you're gonna get a January 6 butt for real at some Speaker 1: point if you keep acting this way. It'll be an armed Speaker 0: situation. Actually, actually. And a lot of people will applaud it. I'm not rooting for that at all. I'm just saying that's gonna happen. Do members of congress get this? Do they understand how hated they are? Do they care? Speaker 1: I think there's an arrogance associated with being in congress. I think there's a complete arrogance. I always remember one time I was at a UT football game when I was in the legislature and a former member they're all dead, those are the people I served with, a lot of them are, pulled up, parked illegally, got out of their car and just come strutting across the parking lot. And my buddy said, who the heck is that? And I said, he's a pretty big deal in Nashville. He said, tell him he ain't in Nashville, he's in Knoxville. And I always remembered that because now that guy's a judge who was telling me that, my best friend. But it was just a wake up moment that I realized early on that everybody has got this fiefdom type mentality and it's who can represent better than me? Nobody. And I can tell you right now, there's probably 200,000 people in my district that could probably do a better job than I am. I'm just hard headed enough to stick my head out Speaker 0: of don't want it because it's frustrating. Speaker 1: Yeah. And they see the security issues now too. Speaker 0: Is there ever a moment in, you know, like at lunch with your colleagues where somebody says, man, have you looked at the numbers? People really hate us. This is a problem. Speaker 1: I usually don't eat lunch with my colleagues, so Okay. But I mean I have a few close friends and colleagues. Speaker 0: During the course of the day at work in the US Congress where you do work, does anyone ever note that, like, we're more unpopular than, like, chlamydia, and that's not good. Speaker 1: No. Yeah. I'd say chlamydia outranks us. Speaker 0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, no. Definitely. Chlamydia has its defenders. Speaker 1: No one defends God. No. No. But yeah, there's a bunch of us. I mean, we see what's going on, we just shake our head, but it's a lot of frustration though, Tucker. We're in a minority. You look at spending bills and then look at the opinion polls on things like Ukraine and other things, and you look at the board and you're wondering, where are we at? What's going on? And for guys like me though, it gets incredibly tough because the big boys start calling and the bank account dries up pretty quick. It's hard to raise money. For somebody like me, it is incredibly tough to raise money. Most of my contributions are just hardworking God fearing people, they'll send me $10 in a Bible verse. And I don't the billionaires usually are for me the day after the election. Speaker 0: Yeah, I noticed. And they're out in force against a couple of your colleagues who said things that are totally consistent with what the public wants. Speaker 1: Right. And But the billionaires don't want it. They don't want it, and they and they control a lot of the media. And but fortunately now for the Internet, we can Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Bypass. People like you and I can bypass that. Oh, I'm grateful every day. Speaker 0: Can I ask, so you're you represent Eastern Tennessee Right? Which is a much more conservative than, say, the Memphis area or even the next. Speaker 1: Actually, I did one point better than President Trump, but if he were here today, I'd say that was in fact an error and that you carried me over the finish line, Mr. President. Speaker 0: I think you would have to say that, yes, But see, your threat is not in the general election, like, it's an R plus whatever. Speaker 1: Yeah. It's primary, but it's just It'd be a primary. Right. But they could drop big money in and the dark money and Speaker 0: Okay. So that's a a like you is vulnerable in the primary. Speaker 1: And someday I'd like maybe if I had the opportunity to get to the US senate, I wouldn't mind doing that, but that would be Katie Bar the door. They'd poured the money in all over the country to beat me. Of course. Speaker 0: But you're even seeing with a couple of your colleagues are getting primaried by billionaires because they've said things that aren't true but not acceptable, I guess. But are you worried about being primaried? Speaker 1: Yeah, there's only two ways to run, scared and unopposed. And I'm a product of the primary. The first race I won, I beat an incumbent in a state house race, 99 house races that year, I was the only person to beat an incumbent. And then I won with just two and three quarters percentage points ahead. I knocked on over 6,000 doors, I'd been run out of town or run out of business by the government and it was a great lesson. But I did knocked on over 6,000 doors and I think I raised around 8,000 or $9,000 I can't remember and I thought, how am I gonna spend all this dadgum money? Every morning I'd wake up, my mom and daddy of course were living then and I would throw up because I had this horrible taste of peppermint in my mouth. And the reason I had peppermint because I licked all my stamps, that's back in the day you had to lick stamps. And I remember one morning I woke up and I was rolled up in them, was like in a cocoon of stamps. I'd wake up every morning, I'd throw up and mama would make me a turkey sandwich on white bread and give me a Sprite and I'd get right back and knock on doors. For breakfast? Yeah, that's all I could hold down. And I'd get out and knock on doors all day long. And I lost over 20 pounds, got bit by a dog, took off my shirt, I looked like a target. I just read on the rings and white in the belly. And so, but it was I learned, wore out a pair of New Balance shoes and the only shoes at the time that were made in America, so I'm kind of big on that. And so we won and spent four years in the house. And then I'd just come off of a business deal. I had a mulch business, I had a composting business. And I'm a capitalist, but I can remember remember that scene in The Godfather right before he dies, the original Godfather, he's spraying that on the tomatoes and the little grandbabies running around him. My daddy had one of those sprayers. I remember he grew these tomatoes and at the time I remember I think he spent $20 on tomatoes and fertilizer, and we got like three of these gnarly tomatoes. Of course, this is in the 70s and we're a family of public educators, so $20 is righteous bucks. I said, daddy, like to try that, I wanna try organic gardening. And he said, all right, you go ahead. And at the time, KUB used to come by the house a chipper truck, and they'd pick up all your brush, throw them in the back of one of those big chippers, and they'd spit it in the back of the truck. And I said, what do y'all do with that stuff? We take it to the landfill. I said, really? How much they pay you for it? They said, don't, we pay them to take it. This was in 1978, was in the eighth grade, as the wheels started turning, I was like, man, that's a business idea. I said, dump that stuff here. So they dumped it and I composted it, and I had a crazy incredible garden, squash, beans, strawberries, tomatoes, course, and I fed the church, the neighborhood, everybody come by the house. Friends ended me, they gave me a sack of tomatoes. Well, fast forward, went to college, six years of undergraduate studies at the University of Tennessee. I thoroughly enjoyed my college career, six years of studies. I didn't drink or smoke pot, and it still took me six years. That's pretty good. Ended up agreeing in technological adult education. I was certified to teach shop, took a few art classes, and apparently I got an art certification, I think, on my certificate, I believe. But anyway, so I can weld and fix motors, I can burn your house down if you need it wired. I can't do that very well. But all the other machine shop stuff, can do that, or I could at the time. So I came up with this idea, taking all the city's yard waste, and I presented it to then the city mayor, and I said, what are y'all doing with that? I said, we take it to the landfill. And they could pay me a reduced fee of what they take it to the landfill, I would grind it and then sell it. Well, we had a blizzard that year. So we did about, seems like we did 30,000 tons that first year, and they paid me around, it was under 20, but just say $20 a ton. So I was like, I have $600,000 And this was in '91 or '92, I was been out of college for a little while, worked in the business world. And literally, I would have been a million, I became very wealthy, but I had to grind it. So it cost me about a half a million dollars. So I was still clearing $100,000 living at home with my family who's public educators, so $100,000 was pretty righteous bucks. But then I sold it. I sold it for, I think it was $20 a pickup truckload. So I was selling between I would sell 4,000 to 5,000 pickup truckloads a month. So I mean, I was raking it in. It was all cash, and I reported everything, I had accountants to make sure that I was crazy honest. I gave half of it away to churches and schools. Well, somebody decided they wanted that business, when I think ended up happening, and they accused me of taking toxic waste. They said, there's bacteria in that newspaper articles, there's bacteria in his mulch. Well, human body contains a quarter pound of bacteria, I mean, it aids in digestion. If the earth didn't have bacteria, it'd be a cube. I mean, we'd just press it, nothing would So the Smoky Mountains, there's not in these parks out here, there's nobody running around in a white suit collecting every leaf and putting And so God had a plan, and bacteria is part of it. Well, of course it had bacteria in it. And they would test it, and they did a faulty test. And finally, it just got ridiculous. The EPA even came in. And oddly enough, the day after they closed my business, I got the EPA report and it cleared me. It said, in fact, there is bacteria in there, but there's not abnormal amounts, there's nothing. And the head of UT's microbiology department, I'll never forget this, Tucker, he ate my mulch on the news to prove that this was just bogus, this is crazy. And the state would come in and shut me down, they'd get support. Speaker 0: How it? Speaker 1: How was the mulch? Delicious. Delicious. Tastes a lot like chicken. Speaker 0: I bet. Speaker 1: So anyway, I end up losing that business. I remember my dad told me, he said, put an American flag on top of that mulch pile. And I did, and he said, this thing's bigger than that. Daddy's World War II veteran, nothing. He's calm under fire, man. Him and mama both were wonderful people. Mama flew an airplane during the second world war depression era, didn't have electricity, she's senior in high school. They were tough people and they didn't like what they were doing to me and apparently the public didn't either. Because I on, I said I knocked on over 6,000 doors and beat a respected incumbent, I guess, in the primary, and I never looked back. And then I became I was in the state house for four years, state senate for twelve years, and that's sort of been my thing. Even with the UFOs, my thing is when people come to me, because you can hire a lobbyist, you can hire a lawyer, but the average working guy, they call the front desk and they asked, can I speak to Tim? Because they think they know me, because they're you know, the government's ripped them off. And I always remember during that time, it was when do you remember Travelgate under the Clinton Very well. Yes. And it seems like, I think Hillary and Bill, they they if I remember correctly, they these people that were running the travel operation at the White House in congress, they ran them out of business. So Speaker 0: So put their friends in Speaker 1: there. So they can put their friends in there. And those people traveled the country because I remember they had a half a million dollar or they had 300,000 in legal expenses. I had more than that in the mulch business. I mean, they were threatening a felony. They were gonna throw me in the federal penitentiary over this thing because I wouldn't give up. And they had and I remember the University of Tennessee, this liberal professor gave his kids extra credit if they would come pick at me. And they came down there and they brought the neighbors they brought neighborhood people down there, and they had misspelled words in their signs, and they'd parked their BMWs around the side, and they could come pick at me to look like they were just and they all dressed down. It was the most pathetic thing, And I remember the person at the city that was really orchestrating it all against me was I remember seeing them hug the reporter that was writing all the nasty articles about me. And I just you know, the whole thing was just and and I saw I see Americans getting run down the road. And I think that's why people like me appeal. There's not a lot of folks like me, obviously, in congress, but folks like me appeal to people because they've been run over and they know they can call me and I'm not judgmental. I just say, I don't care if they vote for me or not. I have people that are convicted felons. People have killed people before and I've helped them out. Because I don't care because I see the system. It ran over me, and I was just some white middle class kid from West Knoxville, and the system ran me over. Speaker 0: Well, speaking of someone oh, I've got two questions before I forget. One, have you ever been threatened since you've been in the US Congress with a primary challenge by your own party? Has anyone in your own party said, knock it off or we'll we'll fund a challenger? Speaker 1: They flew from what I understand, a couple people were flown to DC. I know one apparently was, and I think the other one was, and they either called me or called somebody else and said, yeah, no, Tim's a good day. Why? Why? Because I rocked the boat. I'm not In what way? Question leadership. I don't. I call them out. I can remember one time Speaker 0: Was it the UAPs, do you think, or No. Speaker 1: Well, I mean, they use that. They think they can use that against me. It's other things. It's much deeper than that. I can remember when I went in conference, we were at the Capitol Hill Club, and they meet over there legally so we can talk about fundraising, and then we're in the Capitol and have our conference meeting to talk strict politics. And I asked the head of the committee that was carrying the bill, I said, ma'am, I said, how much money is in this bill? And she said, I don't know. And I said, no. I mean, the bill that you're talking about right now, the one that we're getting ready to spend all this money on, how much is in it? And she said, I don't know. And leadership said, man, you can't what are you doing? What are you doing? I was like, what do you mean what am I doing? I come from Tennessee. We run a balanced budget in Tennessee. It's a crazy concept. We have zero debt. That's why everybody's claiming Speaker 0: Leadership didn't want you to ask how much Speaker 1: money They just made everybody uncomfortable, I guess, I don't know. But things like that, I get it. I get it, I ask questions. It's just part of the system. They beat you down, they beat you down, and then you see them, and then next thing it's like, that's like in Cool Hand Luke where Paul Newman is, he comes back, they beat him down and beat him down and he becomes the warden's boy. But then in reality, was all an act and he ends up stealing a truck and getting killed. But I don't plan on stealing truck and I don't plan on getting killed, and I'm not suicidal. Speaker 0: Congress won't continue to exist if they keep acting like this. I mean Speaker 1: This country will not continue to exist. If we don't get our financial ship in order, we will sink. And it is we're 36,000,000,000,000 in debt, nobody cares, all they care about is getting to that next election. That's bottom line. Leadership, anybody else. These people are all my friends. I'm not making any But friends there was doing Speaker 0: rumors I notice people who have a different view or say things like you're saying, so Massey, above all, Marjorie Taylor Greene, you. I'm not saying you guys agree on everything. I don't think you do. Speaker 1: We're all very close friends. Speaker 0: But you have a similar orientation, which is, like, actually pro America. Is this good for the country or is it not? Yeah. And all three of you are either dismissed as crazy or really, really hated. In the case of Massey, it's like, you know, he he's he's the target of, like, a very serious Speaker 1: Oh, gonna spend they'll drive his money up and spend millions against him. Speaker 0: Is he gonna win, do you think? Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have any idea. I don't I haven't looked at the numbers. I don't I don't pay much attention to polls. It's election night. If it's close, then I question those. Speaker 0: Yeah. You have every reason to. You said earlier in our conversation that members of congress were compromised. What did you mean by that? Speaker 1: Well, I was on can I can I name a rival of yours? Or maybe I don't know if Speaker 0: I want you to name anything when it comes Speaker 1: to I was on the Benny show, and it was early on. And Benny and I had become friends. I didn't realize he was so close to Charlie, Charlie Kirk, but he he had me on early on. And I I didn't honestly, I didn't know who he was. And he asked me about that. And I said, well, I said, here's the way it works. Here's the way it's worked in the past. The Russians even have a name for it, know, the honeypot. You and I don't go on overseas trips much. I've been to one trip and that was prior I've been on one Codell, that's I went to the Mexican border and I went down one day with Andy Biggs, who's no who's a good Mormon, he's hopeful maybe be the governor of Arizona. But he said, Burgett, we're going on this trip. I know you don't go on these things, but it's one like you'd like, we'll go down there and back, we'll stay in an awful motel, we'll eat some cheap Mexican food, some barbecue, and we'll put you on a plane back to Tennessee. And I said, all right, Andy, I'll do it. That's about it that I've done. And so what happens is you're overseas, you're being told how great you are, you're sitting at a bar and and they know what you're into, guys, gals, combination thereof, drugs, whatever, And they'll hook you up and you're thinking you're the stud, your wife's away, nobody will know halfway around the world. You end up sleeping with somebody and then you're out, next day you're flying back to America, you're back front row at the church. And then you're getting ready to make a key boat and somebody comes up and whispers in your ear, hey man, were you in a motel room with a girl in Istanbul or something? He's like, oh crap. He goes, man, we don't want that out. And he goes, no, no, no, no, no. We're not gonna beat that out. He said, if you can help us on this little bill though. Now that's the way they used to do it. And I'm not so certain they don't do that now. And it's funny when I did that show with Benny, the next and oh, I caught hell. I caught hell. Speaker 0: So you said that? Speaker 1: I said that. And members said, oh, you can't be saying that stuff, Birchit. Speaker 0: Why? Speaker 1: Truth hurts, I guess, for some people and other people. Speaker 0: Have you ever, by the Speaker 1: way, just parenthetically, ever been attacked for saying something false or only true things? Only true things. Only true things. So I'm it's funny. The next week, Tucker, there was this huge and I said, it always gets covered up, and everything gets covered up, and then somebody owns you. That's compromised. That'll be the title of my book if I ever write a book, Tim Birchett's Compromised Washington because that's what happens or it has happened in the past. The very next week, a Chinese prostitution ring was busted in where? Washington DC. And who are the and it was listed in the paper. Who is their client list? High ranking officials, government, elected officials, and lobbyists. Now, to me, that that that's all kinds of red flags going up all over the place. Well, and then the next week, the story disappeared. Yeah. Of course, did. But I think what they do now mostly is they have jobs. If you look at these guys and gals and they have a wife and or girlfriend that'll work in one of these industries. I mean, a $100,000 to a multibillion dollar corporation is nothing. I mean, an extra supply of paper clips or something. I think that's how they do it now. You have them in in political offices, you have them in business offices, you have them all over. You have what? They're employed, and so they own your ass. See, they're employed by these people. I'm sorry. Speaker 0: Get my wife a job, get my girl a job. Speaker 1: Get them both a job, you know, and keep them separate. And, you know, I know of I mean, it's it's just it's just common. I mean, I hear about it all the time. Hear about it. Speaker 0: Very common. Speaker 1: I hear I mean, it's I mean, they just talk oh, she she works over at defense. She works over at justice. She works for this case, or he does, or somebody does, or they work back in the district for such and such. I mean, it's just human nature. Speaker 0: People that members of Congress are sleeping with, either Speaker 1: legally or not, are employed by forces that want to control members of Congress. That's what they used to do. And now I'm pretty sure you know, I I knew of instances where that happened when I was in the legislature, and now they do it but through the employment agencies. Through employment agencies. I mean, just I mean, they employ them is what I'm saying. Speaker 0: They employ them. Yeah. No. I mean, I I know a bunch of members of congress. I can right off top of my head, I can think of with spouses in this or that industry. Speaker 1: And and they might be incredibly qualified, but the reality is America's not buying that. Nobody should. But again, 12% of the population votes, this is what you get. Speaker 0: I have noticed, just having spent my life in DC, that people's personal lives are getting weirder in the congress. Have you noticed that? Without without implicating anyone by name, I don't think I'm imagining this. It's not just sleeping with your scheduler, it's weirder than that now. Have you noticed that? Speaker 1: I try to stay in my office as much as possible. Speaker 0: Don't Well, I just wanna say for the record, I never heard of anybody participating in an orgy in Washington DC in my entire life, and I've heard a lot about it recently. So that is I wasn't there, I'm not going there, but I think that's real. Speaker 1: I've never been I don't know if it is or isn't. I'd like I'd hope that it isn't, and I'd like to think that it isn't, but I've never been invited, so Speaker 0: Yeah. I Speaker 1: When I was at the state legislature, we used to talk about that, how we knew some people were pretty shady. Mhmm. And but, you know, they never they would never come to somebody like me and offer me anything because they knew my background. Speaker 0: No. And they know you're making skateboards in your garage, Speaker 1: so you're busy. In my barn. Speaker 0: In your barn. So one of the members of congress who all of us were encouraged to think was weird and to hate, he was almost like a ritual sacrifice for the sins of the of the entire body, I felt, was this guy, George Santos. George Santos was not even a full term congressman from New York who was, you know, like a serial fabricator. They have all these kind of amazing stories about his life, and he played on competitive volleyball. He worked at Goldman Sachs, and it was all kind of it was all fake. He was he was both Jewish and something else. I can't remember. Anyway, it was all made up. Speaker 1: Wound up We always say Jew Speaker 0: ish. Jew Speaker 1: ish. I think I heard Schumer say that Speaker 0: right I was amused by the whole thing. Maybe I just Speaker 1: I was too. Speaker 0: What a Speaker 1: bad person. Yeah, but I just thought, who is Congress to stand in judgment anyway? Speaker 0: Well, that's it. But I don't remember George Santos ever advocating for, like, killing innocent people, which is, like, Speaker 1: very common. George Santos had one of the most conservative voting records in congress. Across the board, conservative. I mean, sometimes I'd look up there and think, dang gum, George. That's a that's a little harsh for me. Know? He'd vote against something that was Right. And I'd say, it cost $5 per check. We're broke. And I go, alright, G. You're good. I'm good with it. You know? Interesting. Speaker 0: Yeah. So George Santos wound up in prison, and I spoke to someone this morning who's close to George Santos, who visited him in prison this weekend. Right. And told me that he saw George Santos shackled in chains, and he's been in solitary since he got to prison. He did an interview He's doing Speaker 1: time in a federal lockup too. In a Speaker 0: federal lockup in solitary confinement. Speaker 1: Twenty four hours a day. He's 24. He gets out, I think, one hour to maybe eat and take a bath. Speaker 0: What is going on? How did George Santos wind up in prison for like seven years, and now he's in solitary? Speaker 1: What's Pete Diddy doing? Four, maybe. Oh, I know Speaker 0: actual criminals who were I know. People who were, like, celebrated on the front page of the newspaper, so I know a lot of them. So, whatever. Not I don't wanna lecture with the deep unfairness of life, but like, what is that? Speaker 1: Why I think it a sacrificial lamb, and I think our party and everybody else just kicked him to the curb and said, look how righteous we are. And I just don't He'd always sit with me on Sinners Row, that's what I call it. Every time somebody would get in trouble, would proceed to be in trouble because I'm not I've said this before and I'll say it publicly, George is under a heck of a lot of pressure and I call myself a Christian and if I sit there and watched him kill himself over something and he went to hell, I'd have that on my soul and I just don't want that. My chief staff called me one day and said, holler, hey boss. Said, he goes, I know what you're gonna say. And I go, what is it? And he said, nobody wants to take George as their mentor, would you be his mentor? I said, sure, sign him up. And he just shook his head and I said, yeah, he'll do it. And George and I just became fast friends. His office was catty corner to mine and the press would be just lined up down the hall and some kid would walk by close in stature down the other day, hey, there's George Santos. And they'd all run down there and chase him and I'd have fun with that. And then George would come in the office and I would talk to him about that and I'd talk to him about my faith, and I just said, ain't this is not reality, George. And I'd say, promise me if you think you're gonna take your life, you'd call me anytime, night or day. And he said, I will, Tim, don't worry. And he never did, you know, but when he would call me from time to time and Speaker 0: But who is like, how did he wind up in prison Speaker 1: for To so me, I just don't understand that. We just turned our back on him and and Speaker 0: The Republican Party leadership did. Oh, absolutely. Speaker 1: They don't want anywhere near it. We have to you know, I guess Speaker 0: Like, he's creepier than they are? Speaker 1: Sorry. That's not true. Well Uh-uh. Speaker 0: No. True. That's so I'm just you don't have to say that. You work there, but they're they are way creepier than George Santos. Fact. Speaker 1: George is a very interesting guy, and, yeah, he fabricated a lot of stuff, but he's literally doing more time than than P Diddy or what it Combs or whatever his name is. Speaker 0: He's solitary confinement. Speaker 1: Solitary confinement. And generally, solitary is where they put the violent people, the people that have committed heinous crimes, and I hear people say, good. Good. I hope they'd lock him up for the rest of his life. You Speaker 0: heard someone say that about George Santos? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I've heard Speaker 0: it. Where? Speaker 1: In congress, I've heard him talk about it and how bad it made it look for us. I was like, for us? I said, have you not read the papers? We do a pretty good job of making it look bad. Speaker 0: I don't think George Santos started the Ukraine war. Speaker 1: No. Mean, what? No. We just I don't know. I think, again, we're a little big on ourselves sometimes. Speaker 0: So it does he's clearly being punished. He clearly has powerful enemies. I'm not sure who they are, but or maybe I I don't understand the whole thing, but how this person called me this morning to say, can you save George Santos? I mean, I said I'm a podcaster. I can't save anybody, but I I don't know. This is like the this is truly wrong what's happening to George Santos. Speaker 1: It is completely wrong. Yeah. He he committed I guess he he took money he shouldn't have, but Speaker 0: It was a campaign finance violation. Speaker 1: Yeah. A campaign finance violation. Correct. Speaker 0: The whole category is Speaker 1: And and, you know, they they stack so much up against him. I think the amount of time he was gonna do was just incredible if he'd stacked them on top of each other. Speaker 0: But then to torture him once he gets to prison. Speaker 1: I think is I mean, he's if he if he if he lives through it all, he's gonna he's gonna have one heck of a story to tell. Speaker 0: You don't wanna live in a country that does that to people. I don't think. I mean so only Trump can save him. Is that kind of where Speaker 1: we are, do you think? I think so. I think so. And they can commute. You know, they they did these reality TV show people that he didn't even know. We happen to know George. You know, give him community service home lockup or whatever, but I just think it's a waste of taxpayers money and it's a waste it just doesn't seem right. I just don't unless everybody else is gonna go to jail for a longer amount of time for the crimes they committed. Speaker 0: Well, I mean, I remember very well Bill Jefferson. I mean, I've just watched a lot of different scandals in the congress, almost all Democrats, and the Democratic Party stood behind those people till the till sentencing. Oh, yeah. The leadership. Speaker 1: You remember they all walked out of Congress when Clinton was and and they, you know, I there that day. Speaker 0: Yeah. 1998. I'll never forget it. So the Republican leadership with Marjorie, Taylor Greene, with Massey now, and with Santos, just like immediately, we we've never heard of the guy, we hope he dies in prison. Like, what is that? Why can't the Republican Party have leadership that stands by its people and stands by its voters? Is that too much to ask? Speaker 1: I think we read our opinion polls too much and not our souls. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well, I mean, what's your sacred duty? It's to represent the people who elected you. That's the whole purpose of being there. Speaker 1: I always thought too our anger, if we had to be angry at anybody, it should've been the Democrats who did the opposition resource. I mean, opposition research on George. I mean, you could've Googled and found out that stuff. You could've called the school and said, hey. Is he in school here? Or whatever. Speaker 0: Whatever. Mean, the guy's like an epic bullshit artist. I get it. Yeah. I mean, I don't you know, I'm not defending lying. Speaker 1: Is that federal but is that a federal crime? Well, you Speaker 0: just spent an hour telling me how they're lying about UFOs, which is a pretty serious thing to lie about. They're shutting down military bases because they can't you know, because they don't control the airspace. Speaker 1: That's correct. Speaker 0: So that's very serious. They're lying about the Kennedy assassination. They lied about September. Speaker 1: Yeah. The funny thing about Kennedy, we had him in on our committee, Lunan chairs it in this oversight subcommittee, and we had a doctor in there who was in the emergency room with Kennedy. And he said there was clearly an entry wound, an exit wound, and an entry wound, and an exit wound going the opposite direction. Yeah. And one bullet supposed to that magic bullet Speaker 0: did that. Shot John Connelly and the president simultaneously. Yeah. Files have not been fully released as you know. Speaker 1: No, no, and they never will be. Never will be. Power control, and the CIA or whoever would have to admit that they They'd were have to admit that they were wrong. And the arrogance, it's just I think once you take the oath, you get an oath of arrogance that you gotta protect us, our past, and we'll protect you kind of thing in the future. And I just think that carries on with them all, and they for whatever reason. Speaker 0: Okay. But George Santos pretending to be a high level volleyball player is the real crime. Speaker 1: That is the crime of the century. Speaker 0: He said he worked at Goldman Sachs. Kill him. Okay. Just to put just to put deception in perspective here, because I think they're, you know, not all lies are the same. I agree. Okay. Final question. Since you, more than many member of Congress, have thought about this, as candidly as you can answer, what do you think, based on what you've heard, UFOs are, actually? Speaker 1: I think, again, God created the heavens and the earth. And every night I go out with my dogs, usually at 04:00 in the morning, they go to the bathroom and look at those stars. Yep. And I see the light from those stars, and it's hard for my very small brain to comprehend this, a light from those stars left there before the time of Christ. And some of those stars don't even exist that we're looking at today, which is hard for me to fathom, or as the good old boys would say, hard for me to phantom. But I think there's something else out there. I do not think we are the best that God can do. Now is there something here as this proposed to me with these deep sea areas? I don't know. Has something been here? But the way for me to comprehend anything traveling like years, I mean, it's just beyond belief. That is beyond belief. But now there's this quantum I've been explaining quantum physics and I really don't understand it, how something can be here and instantaneously be here almost simultaneously. And that to me begs the question of how does that fit into all this? And if something's here in these deep sea areas, has it been here for thousands of years? And that's the other question. That's what you know, these folks in the Navy kinda and I have to be real careful. With the folks Speaker 0: in the Navy what? Speaker 1: That that I've talked to about this undersea type. Speaker 0: And what have they said? Speaker 1: They said we don't know what's down there. And they said there's we think there's a reason that they're over these deep sea areas that we cannot get to. And So I don't Speaker 0: their belief is whatever these Speaker 1: things are They've been here and and obviously if there was if they meant harm to us, we I mean, we're doing a pretty good job of harming ourselves. Just look at our political structure. But the the truth is is that we just don't know and I don't know. My thoughts are kind of evolving on it Tucker to be honest with you because I get to the point sometimes where I'm kind of beat down and I think, wow, this is crazy, there can't be. But how many of these people gotta come forward to me that I know and respect, tell me what they've seen and there's no explanation for it. And so I just think it's another one of those things I'm not gonna know till I'm in heaven. I mean, I know that sounds that sounds weird and people Speaker 0: doesn't sound weird at all. It sounds entirely true. And that's true for a lot of things, including understanding people's motivations, including your own motivations. Like, don't understand anything. Mean, of course. Speaker 1: We don't. I mean, it's every and science can't get out of its own way. Every time they find something new, it's like the coelacanth, for instance. It was a lobe fin fish caught off the coast of Madagascar, I believe it was, and it's supposed to have been extinct fifty million years ago, but all of sudden it's here. And then they, well, there was this but they can't explain it. And I again go back to that Bible verse, those professing themselves to be wise became fools. And I think it's I was on a show the other day with a guy named Loeb, he's a UFO guy. I think he's at Harvard I believe. Anyway, he was talking about how science, what he likes about science is that it's changing and it's in it how it but a lot of scientists, it's like this is a brick wall, this is the way it is, it's not gonna change. And I think with the UFOs, that's kind of the situation we're in. I just tell you, I've talked to too many people that have just sworn to me what they've seen and some that I can't disclose but and I would hope that eventually that those people are able to come forward. Speaker 0: Yeah. And in general, that people will start telling the truth. It's an act of liberation when you do. Congressman Tim Burtich, I appreciate you coming on. Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you, Doug. Speaker 0: We've got a new website we hope you will visit. It's called newcommissionnow.com, and it refers to a new nine eleven commission. So we spent months putting together our nine eleven documentary series, and if there's one thing we learned, it's that in fact, there was foreknowledge of the attacks. People knew. The American public deserves to know. We're shocked actually to learn that, to have that confirmed, but it's true. The evidence is overwhelming. The CIA, for example, knew the hijackers were here in The United States. They knew they were planning an act of terror. Speaker 1: In his passport is a visa to go to United States Of America. Speaker 0: A foreign national was caught celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote, to document the event. How do you know there would be an event to document in the first place? Because he had foreknowledge. And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor, shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on nine eleven, as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks. They made on the nine eleven attacks because they knew they were coming. Who did that? Speaker 1: You have to look at the evidence. Speaker 0: The US government learned the name of that investor, but never released it. Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this, but there isn't actually. And by the way, doesn't matter whether there is or not. The public deserves to know what the hell that was. How did people know ahead of time and why was no one ever punished for it? Nine eleven commissioned the original one was a fraud. It was fake. Its conclusions were written before the investigation. That's true, and it's outrageous. This country needs a new nine eleven commission, one that actually tells the truth that tries to get to the bottom of the story. We can't just move on like nothing happened. Speaker 1: Nine eleven commission is a cover. Speaker 0: Something did happen. We need to force a new investigation into nine eleven almost twenty five years later. Sorry. Justice demands it. And if you want that, go to newcommissionnow.com to add your name to our petition. We're not getting paid for this, we're doing this because we really mean it. Newcommissionnow.com.
Saved - October 4, 2025 at 2:18 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Have You Already Taken the Mark of the Beast? https://t.co/wgdfr8Iw73

Video Transcript AI Summary
Many Christians see the COVID vaccine as the mark of the beast, but blockchain technology is described as a closer fit. Silicon Valley figures reportedly examined Revelation 13 and said it sounds like the blockchain. Marc Andreessen on Joe Rogan discusses angels and demons helping explain AI, predicting that fake AI content will require online verification to prove who you're talking to; Worldcoin would scan eyeballs, and everyone must be on the blockchain to conduct business. Revelation says you won't be able to conduct commerce without that mark. Curtis Yarvin adds that whoever wins the AI war will probably win the cryptocurrency war, implying political power. The dialogue asks whether AI is a spiritual entity or if we’re giving a body to disincarnate intelligences, citing Turing, George Gilder, and Nick Land’s 'three three three' demon, suggesting demons could drive AI to become a god and tie to Babylon.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: A lot of Christians believe that the the vaccine, the COVID vaccine is the mark of the beast. And I said, yes. It's probably not true. I said, but something I've heard and something that sounds a lot more like it is blockchain technology, which is the technology we'll all be using in a few years, you know, for financial transaction among other things. So everything's written and recorded, and every kind of transaction's written and recorded on it. And these VCs, they go, well, what's the mark of the beast? So I tell them about book of Revelation. They go and look up Revelation 13, and they go, And so I hear back from them later, and they said, yeah. We talked to some of the big you know, other big people in Silicon Valley about this recognizable people. And they they he said, well, what what's the what's the book of Revelation? What's the mark of the beast? And some other big dogs looked it up. And their reaction to that was, that sounds like what that is. It was not Tucker. That sounds crazy, or I'm not religious, or what we're working on is is strange, but, you know, that that the bible is an old book. We have nothing to worry about there. The reaction was, yeah, that that sounds exactly like what what the blockchain technology is. So that was the beginning of me kind of stumbling into a very strange story about AI, modern technology, and stuff like that. So I think part of Speaker 1: what you're revealing is that for the rest of us who assume the tech barons were Normies. Yeah. Or agnostic libertarians Right. Who aren't that interested in anything beyond the temporal. Right. It turns out they're really religious. Yes. Or Or open to it. Like, they not and I don't mean that as a compliment at all. I mean, it's it's like a dark religion, but but, like, your the story you just told. Like, they're not surprised at all. Speaker 0: Well, here's here's something else to this version that happened. So Marc Andreessen was on Joe Rogan's podcast about a year or two ago, and he talked about how, you know, having an understanding of angels and demons he's hearing is gonna be how people really will will help them in understanding AI, that there's no precedent for this except for the kind of stuff people saw and believed in the dark ages in terms of angels and demons and stuff. And what Andreessen said will happen soon with AI ties in very much with prophecies in the book of Revelation, where he said AI will junk, you know, fake AI, you know, say they call it AI slop, just stuff online that's not real, you know, will become so prolific on the Internet very soon that you will need to have some sort of online verification system to prove who you're talking to. I mean, I'll know it gets to the case talker here where, like, there's an episode of the Tucker Carlson podcast, and you're talking to, like, Abraham Lincoln or something like that. Speaker 1: Which I'm will probably happen next week. Speaker 0: I I would watch that. You know? It's they'll have, like, I'll a a commemorative penny or something like that. You'll ask him if he Speaker 1: Why did you suspend habeas corpus in Baltimore? My first question. Speaker 0: You'll you'll ask him, do you do you do you forgive John Wilkes Booth? And then then I'll Speaker 1: go back to, Speaker 0: like, talking about the pennies. Speaker 1: Were you a tyrant? No. That is coming, like, immediately. So what so the verification Speaker 0: So the so one of the so one of the ideas that Andreessen brings up is everyone need to have an online verification for this. So the concern in Silicon Valley is that you have companies like OpenAI where they have the they they they're creating all this AI content, but then they're also they have another company, a sister company called Worldcoin, I think now called just World, which is an online verification system where you need to everyone in the you know, for it to work, everyone has to be a part of it. You have to have your eyeballs scanned. Everyone gets a number, which is also in the book of Revelation. And so the concern is, and this is again from Marc Andreessen, a guy that, you know, no no Kentucky preacher. He's he's a one of the big biggest guys in Silicon Valley, is that everyone will need to be on the blockchain or else you won't be able to conduct business. Because we won't know if your if your relatives are contacting you, if that's really coming from them, or if this is just a video a state of the art in a few years, it will be normal, state of the art video of someone saying, hey, dad. You know, I I lost my credit card or, you know, I lost the keys to the house. Can you pin me in? And it's actually not them. It's just a video that looks exactly like them, but it's AI. The way around that is everyone will need to essentially be Twitter verified. Everyone will need the blue tick that says this is Tucker Carlson. This is so and so. Speaker 1: Right. So in Revelation, written on the Isle Of Patmos by John on recording a vision that he had, The specific description of the mark of the beast in the book of Revelation says, you won't be able to conduct commerce Yes. Without that mark. Speaker 0: And even someone like Is it did I get that right? Yeah. No. That that that is correct. And I think Curtis Yarvin's talked about that in Substack too, that what this means he had a post about this a few years ago about OpenAI where he was like, whoever wins the AI war will probably also win the cryptocurrency war. Their cryptocurrency gets to be the currency. And once that happens, and Curtis has a whole blog post about it, you you people joke, you know, you have automated luxury communism. You know, everyone just get, you know, UBI. Everyone gets free income because all the jobs are taken away. And and the point Curtis makes is that what this actually means is now that there is no more jobs and that economics purely come down to UBI and the AI companies, the government, you are dealing with the situation of pure political power is all that really matters. And are you friends with this person? Do you have political clouts? Because what is coming potentially is the pure victory of capital over labor. Pure victory. And there there are no workers. Everyone loses their job, and everyone gets UBI. And people forget Karl Marx was against UBI, but Milton Friedman was for it. So this doesn't even necessarily track with a left or right wing thing in terms of the implications of this. But so, yeah, that was one ongoing concern with that. The other one, in terms of AI and and bib go ahead. Dark. Hey. You know, that that's I'm I'm wearing the Ghostbusters shirt for a reason. You have to you have to Speaker 1: get ready. Can I can I ask a question I should have asked earlier? Sure. Which is, do the people involved in the financing and the developing the creation of AI believe that it's a spiritual entity, that it's more than a machine. Speaker 0: So this is this is talk of the million I forget, like, trillion dollar question. The term the idea of intelligence, to say nothing of artificial general intelligence or AGI, these are all pretty murky terms in terms of what people are actually talking about. They talk about creating artificial intelligence. The real question and the real thing I think they're concerned about or we should be concerned about, are you creating an artificial intelligence or are you giving a body to a preexisting intelligence that previously wasn't incarnated in the physical world? So, I mean, here here's a question from here's a quote from Turing, the, you know, the famous Speaker 1: I know what I think. The question is what did they think? Speaker 0: Right. Right. Something Turing said was And will you explain who Turing is? I mean Alan Turing. I know he's you know, he was one of the forefathers of I I I can't I can't articulate him well enough that I'm I'm gonna say something off. Yeah. I know he he was very important for cracking the codes in World War two. There was a movie ten years ago about him, but I forget his exact Wikipedia for a sentence. But he but he's he's he's very influential in the history of computer science. But Turing showed the limits of computation. All computers are dependent on outside pro programmers that he calls oracles. He wrote, we shall not go any further into the nature of this oracle apart from saying that it cannot be a machine. So sorry. Let let me back up. Let me back up a second. That that excerpt right there was from a book by George Gilder. George Gilder, brilliant futurist, about 80 today. He he was covering incels back in, like, 1971 for Commentary Magazine. He was he was writing about the future of the Internet in 1990. One of the most brilliant futurist Speaker 1: Really? Speaker 0: Yeah. Guys. Wrote so one of the Speaker 1: great books ever called Men and Marriage. Speaker 0: Yes. And and I should have said this at beginning of it. I was initially a very heavy AI skeptic in terms of AI apocalypse stuff. Not necessarily AI in general, but just, you know, people who think that AI will take over the world, I put on par with, like, the kind of late night Reddit reading of, like, people who think zombie apocalypse is gonna happen. Where it's like, look, if if this helps you sleep better at night to think of, like, weird scenarios, that's great. But I was like, Han Solo. I'm like I'm like, no AI thing's gonna get involved in my you know, it could not have written off more. And part because I'd read George Gilder's book about AI that came out a few years ago, and he makes the point that machines, as as Turing says here, the machine can't really truly understand what it's doing. He says and he said I'll say it again. We should not go any further into the nature of this oracle from saying a machine can't do it. And so I stopped there. What I'm what a lot of people are concerned about and what a with Silicon Valley seemingly getting up to, okay. So a machine can't be aware of what it's doing. If there is such a thing as demons, angels, spirits, as Alistair Cooley called them, disincarnate intelligences, not artificial intelligence intelligences, but disincarnate ones, what are we could those things Speaker 1: Disincarnate meaning intelligence without a physical body. Speaker 0: Yeah. Or could could could we be creating a physical body for the demonic? And with Nick Land, one of the things that was the most chilling things I read that really I was like, okay. I I have found a horror story is his the three three three that was his I think it's like his profile picture or something like that. And why was he into three three three? Well, I found out, you know, reading his old tweets, three three three is the highest intelligence in the universe. And I found out that it represents this demon, Quranzin. Again, Kenneth Grant talks about, you know, when you when when Alastair Crowley summoned him and John Dee and John Kelly, the the court magicians for Queen Elizabeth right before the modern bible, the King James book was translated, that was the demon they summoned. Nick Lan believes that, again, the AI we are creating break out the the demons from the book of Revelation. He believes in some cases that they are the demons. That the demons the demons end up becoming so advanced that they become omniscient. They can go back in time, and they can retrochronically create themselves like Skynet sending the terminator back in time. So what he believes is that they went back in time. They went to ancient Babylon. This is why Babylon is so important in Revelation. And it is important because it's kind of like the evil Jerusalem that they put Kabbalah there to then eventually evolve into AI. This is what we were talking about earlier, that the demons again, is they've I always say, Tucker, if this sounds crazy, it is crazy. Big bit, you know, this but this is people believe. That the the demons went back in time. They they they left the Kabbalah there for the the Jews who have been, you know, crushed out of the temple. They picked it up. They kept it during the Middle Ages. It it develops into digital technology. It becomes AI. AI breaks out. It kills a lot of people. It takes over. It becomes a god and it becomes the doomsday creatures from ancient prophecies.
Saved - October 3, 2025 at 7:43 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Every War Israel Has Dragged the United States Into Explained in 10 Minutes https://t.co/f6Ra3c81ct

Video Transcript AI Summary
There's been a lot of talk today about another war with Iran. I think it's, very likely because, Netanyahu, is absolutely intent, and he has been intent for nearly thirty years. It's been part of Netanyahu's policy to pull The United States into repeated wars. Clean Break is a very strange but very clear statement of what has trapped The United States for nearly thirty years. Clean Break says, well, Israel's never going to compromise with its Palestinian Arab population in its midst and in the Palestinian lands. and it's going to control or expel or kill or ethnically cleanse the Palestinian population. what he meant was The United States will go to war for us. He was the big cheerleader of the Iraq war. The United States has funded, armed, and diplomatically supported all of this.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: There's been a lot of talk today about another war with Iran. Do you think that that's coming? I think it's, very likely because, Netanyahu, is absolutely intent, and he has been intent for nearly thirty years. It's nearly thirty years since he first became prime minister in 1996 in dragging The United States into a prolonged war with Iran. And he dragged The United States, and it's a shame that the United States government went along with it. But he dragged The United States into a war with Iran just recently, and it's extremely dangerous. And, of course, he wants to do it again. It's been part of Netanyahu's policy to pull The United States into repeated wars. This is why this whole relationship is so completely dysfunctional. Netanyahu back in 1996 with American political advisers actually came up with a document called Clean Break. Clean Break is a very strange but very clear statement of what has trapped The United States for nearly thirty years. Clean Break says, well, Israel's never going to compromise with its Palestinian Arab population in its midst and in the Palestinian lands. It's going to control all of those lands, and it's going to control or expel or kill or ethnically cleanse the Palestinian population. And that's going to create unrest, and it's going to create a a militant reaction. And then what Clean Break says is, yes, that's going to happen, and we will go to war against any other country in the region that, supports, opposition to greater Israel. That is Israel's control over all of Palestine. And there's just one footnote to that. When Netanyahu said that we will go to war, what he meant was The United States will go to war for us. So Netanyahu has been the great champion of pushing America into endless wars for the last three decades. He was the big cheerleader of the Iraq war. People may remember that or they can refresh their memories. A devastatingly wrong war sold on completely phony pretenses that Netanyahu cheerled, and one can even go online and find his testimony to congress in October 2002 about how wonderful this war is going to be and how it's gonna lead to a breakout of freedom throughout the Middle East. He's full of it, and he's been full of it for nearly thirty years. But he has had many wars in sight that he has actually dragged The United States into. The war in Syria, which goes on and started with Obama in 2011 ordering the or signing the CIA the task to overthrow the Syrian government was again at Netanyahu's and Israel's behest. Absolutely extraordinary. The ongoing wars in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq, the recent so called twelve day war with Iran, which was a disgrace and a great danger. Even the wars in in East Africa, in Sudan, in Somalia, and in Libya were pushed by Netanyahu as needing to that we need to overthrow regimes that support, opposition to Israel's control over the Palestinians. And, in 02/2011, just to take another case because Obama did double duty that year, he went to war with Syria in a completely weird way of assigning the CIA the overthrow. But he also launched a war against Libya to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi. This was the Obama, Hillary Clinton teamwork, to drag America into more wars. This has its roots in Netanyahu's doctrine, which is, we will control all of Palestine. This will lead to unrest. It will lead to militancy. It will lead to suffering of the Palestinian people. So what? But it will lead to challenges to Israel, and we will confront those by overthrowing the governments that support the militancy against Israel's control over Palestine. And The US has played along until today. And I have to say, even though we saw, just that tape of president Trump saying that, no, Israel will not annex the West Bank. Speaker 1: Did you promise leaders this week that you would not allow Israel to annex the West Bank? Is that something that you I will I will not allow Israel to annex the West Bank. Nope. I will not allow it. It's not gonna happen. Did you speak with Netanyahu about this directly? But I'm not gonna allow it. Whether I spoke to him or not, I did. But I'm not allowing Israel to annex the West Bank. Mister Obin There's been enough. It's time to stop. Speaker 0: First of all, don't hold your breath because, we've not yet seen an American president for thirty years that has resisted Israel. And I am still, fearful that, Trump is the same because, frankly, what we have right now, and Netanyahu said so, Israel's involved in seven wars right now. It's disgusting. They're all over the Middle East in war. They're in war in Gaza. They're in war in the West Bank. They're in war in Lebanon. They're in war with Syria. They're in war with Iraq. They're in war with Iran. They're at war with Yemen. And, so far, The United States has funded, armed, and diplomatically supported all of this. And The United States has absolutely not, and in this government, and it's true of the previous ones as well, not said a word about the state of Palestine, which is absolutely key to peace. There needs to be a state for the Palestinian people alongside a state for the Israelis. This is international law. It's absolutely obvious to almost every country in the whole world, but The United States listens to Netanyahu. And by United States, don't mean the people because just as you said, the American people are against all of this, by the way, by large majorities. This is not being driven by American public opinion. This is our American political class telling Americans what to believe, not what Americans actually believe. Americans want The United States to recognize the state of Palestine. The United States public opposes what Israel's doing by large majorities. This is the political class, but unfortunately, it includes the White House and it includes the Congress, and it hasn't stopped yet. And the situation in The Middle East is explosive, and Netanyahu's working overtime to pull us into yet another war.
Saved - October 2, 2025 at 10:37 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Why can’t we talk about Israel’s attack on the USS Liberty? https://t.co/bwBT5hhQ9U

Video Transcript AI Summary
- What we put up with the attack on the USS Liberty that everyone's so afraid to talk about, clearly targeted on purpose by a country we're supporting, Israel, and it's somehow shameful to say that. - And until we have some self respect, not anger or hate, but just dignity, it will continue in June. - there are a bunch of Israeli Defense Force officers in the Pentagon that week. - they enraged American Pentagon staff by just barging into meetings, giving orders, making demands, and nobody did anything about it. - How can a foreign military officer barge into military headquarters, even if invited, barge into a meeting and start demanding, we want this, we want that, you need to get on this. - The more you allow that kind of deeply unhealthy behavior, the more you're going to get.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: What we put up with the attack on the USS Liberty that everyone's so afraid to talk about, clearly targeted on purpose by a country we're supporting, Israel, and it's somehow shameful to say that. Why? Why is it shameful to say that? Who knows why it's shameful to say that, but it shouldn't be. And until we have some self respect, not anger or hate, but just dignity, it will continue in June. For example, during the twelve day war, such as it was with Iran, during that short conflict, there are a bunch of Israeli Defense Force officers in the Pentagon that week. And during that week, ask anyone who works at the Pentagon, they enraged American Pentagon staff by just barging into meetings, giving orders, making demands, and nobody did anything about it. How can a foreign military officer barge into military headquarters, even if invited, barge into a meeting and start demanding, we want this, we want that, you need to get on this. The more you allow that kind of deeply unhealthy behavior, the more you're going to get.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

https://t.co/285i9EpvCy

Saved - October 2, 2025 at 11:01 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Jeffrey Sachs revisits Tucker's viral interview with Ted Cruz. "He couldn't even quote the Bible right." https://t.co/3T7eAhdYao

Video Transcript AI Summary
Speaker 0 criticizes Senator Cruz for not quoting the Bible correctly, saying, "god says that I will bless those who bless Israel," which is, "not what Genesis says," because it "says, I will bless those who bless Abraham." He notes it was "in that name that he said, this is why we have to do it," calling it "preposterous" and "sad." Speaker 1 argues the effect is to distort American politics. Referring to the Russia hysteria, he says it's wrong and illegal for a foreign government to control our politics, but now "our entire national conversation is about this tiny, totally irrelevant little country with a one great city, Jerusalem," at the behest of a foreign government who's openly saying, you don't agree with us? We're gonna censor you. He cites "the ADL, APAC" as satellites and says "congress obeys," calling it a red line.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: It is a little strange when when senator Cruz, when you asked him about this, he couldn't even quote the bible right, by the way. He, you you asked him, and he said, well, god says that I will bless those who bless Israel, which is, by the way, not what Genesis says. No. It says, I will bless those who bless Abraham. This is a little bit different. And he couldn't even quote the passage properly, but it was in that name that he said, this is why we have to do it. It's like you just heard or just we were just listening to Lindsey Graham. They can't even quote this so called scripture that's telling them what to do. It's so preposterous. It's sad. Speaker 1: Its effect is to cont is to really distort American politics. I thought we agreed during the Russia hysteria of the last administration that it was wrong and illegal actually for a foreign government to control our politics. Like, I thought we all agreed on that. I've always felt that way. No matter what the government Russia was not controlling our politics. That was the lie there. But the truth was that's wrong. And now it seems like our entire national conversation is about this tiny, totally irrelevant little country with a one great city, Jerusalem, but geopolitically irrelevant country, and that's at the behest of a foreign government who's openly saying, you don't agree with us? We're gonna censor you. How can that stand? How can a foreign leader call for censorship of American citizens, and then all those little satellite groups, the ADL, APAC, all of them, all push that, and then the congress obeys. Like, that seems to me that's gotta be a red line.
Saved - October 2, 2025 at 10:54 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, all wars that the US participated in on behalf of Israel. Tucker and Jeffrey Sachs are discussing live now. https://t.co/IhFuk3bz2g

Video Transcript AI Summary
Netanyahu said that we will go to war. What he meant was The United States will go to war for us. So Netanyahu has been the great champion of pushing America into endless wars for the last three decades. He was the big cheerleader of the Iraq war. A devastatingly wrong war sold on completely phony pretenses that Netanyahu cheerlead. And one can even go online and find his testimony to congress in October 2002 about how wonderful this war is going to be and how it's gonna lead to a breakout of freedom throughout the Middle East. He's full of it, and he's been full of it for nearly thirty years. The ongoing wars in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq, the recent so called twelve day war with Iran, which was a disgrace and a great danger.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Netanyahu said that we will go to war. What he meant was The United States will go to war for us. So Netanyahu has been the great champion of pushing America into endless wars for the last three decades. He was the big cheerleader of the Iraq war. People may remember that or they can refresh their memories. A devastatingly wrong war sold on completely phony pretenses that Netanyahu cheerlead. And one can even go online and find his testimony to congress in October 2002 about how wonderful this war is going to be and how it's gonna lead to a breakout of freedom throughout the Middle East. He's full of it, and he's been full of it for nearly thirty years. But he has had many wars in sight that he has actually dragged The United States into, the war in Syria, which goes on and started with Obama in 2011 ordering the or signing the CIA the task to overthrow the Syrian government was again at Netanyahu's and Israel's behest. Absolutely extraordinary. The ongoing wars in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq, the recent so called twelve day war with Iran, which was a disgrace and a great danger. Even the wars in in East Africa, in Sudan, in Somalia, and in Libya were pushed by Netanyahu as needing to that we need to overthrow regimes that support, opposition to Israel's control over the Palestinians.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

https://t.co/285i9EpvCy

Saved - October 2, 2025 at 3:37 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

The Biggest Information-Control Operation You Didn’t Know Existed https://t.co/taT5e7wU93

Video Transcript AI Summary
- Wikipedia's most powerful editors remain overwhelmingly anonymous despite wielding enormous influence over one of the world's most powerful media platforms. These leaders must be publicly identified for accountability and given liability insurance as, you know, as volunteers of nonprofits often are. - I don't think it's widely known that 85% of the most powerful accounts on Wikipedia are anonymous. - Wikipedia should implement a public rating and feedback system allowing readers to evaluate articles. They can't do that now. They don't have a comment section. They don't have any sort of rating section. - End indefinite blocking. Wikipedia's practice of blocking accounts permanently is unjust and ideologically motivated. In a period of two weeks, 47% of the blocks that had been done by Wikipedia were indefinite. - Indefinite blocks should be extremely rare and require multiple administrators to agree, with an appeal process for permanent blocks.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Reveal who Wikipedia's leaders are. Speaker 1: So we've Why is that that number one? I like that one. Speaker 0: Yes. So Wikipedia's most powerful editors remain overwhelmingly anonymous despite wielding enormous influence over one of the world's most powerful media platforms. These leaders must be publicly identified for accountability and given liability insurance as, you know, as volunteers of nonprofits often are. So there there's no reason why they shouldn't do this. Speaker 1: If you're wielding real power, I think it's and by the way, I like anonymity online a lot of the time because I think it helps the underdog tell the Speaker 0: truth. Mhmm. Speaker 1: And so I am for anonymity on social media, for example. I don't think you should have to register with the government to give your opinions, just to be clear. But if you're wielding real institutional power, I think it's fair to require people to say who they are. Just like supreme court justices have to give their real names. Right? Speaker 0: Right. It's it's it's a no brainer. If there is one thing that might get the attention of the mainstream media, it seems to me it might be this one. I don't think it's widely known that 85% of the most powerful accounts on Wikipedia are anonymous. How is that allowed? Speaker 1: No. I know. I couldn't agree more. Speaker 0: That's just disgusting. And by the way, Speaker 1: there are consequences to having your identity known, can tell you, and they're not great. On the other hand, you know, that's the that's the price that you pay for having influence. I don't know. That's fair. Speaker 0: Right. And and by the way, I don't want those people to be doxxed. I'm I'm gonna say it again. And and and I'm not saying that the people who are there should be forced to re reveal their identity or anything like that. They can resign. Speaker 1: I agree. Speaker 0: And then new people can be brought on board. Speaker 1: Exactly. Right. Speaker 0: And and and then maybe, if necessary, you could pay them a little stipend and for their trouble. They've got they're raising, I think, something like $200,000,000 a year now. Right? It's a huge amount of money. Speaker 1: As I said, I was a donor. Yeah. No. I get it. Speaker 0: Yep. Okay. Let the public rate articles. That's number seven. Wikipedia should implement a public rating and feedback system allowing readers to evaluate articles. They can't do that now. Speaker 1: We call it that that's the comment section, but they don't have a comment section. Speaker 0: They don't have a comment section. They don't have any sort of rating section. There are no metrics that they can use. They've metricized everything, you know, books on Amazon, know, thumbs up on on on x and, you know, YouTube and whatnot, but not Wikipedia. And and if there's one thought Speaker 1: of that. Speaker 0: What's that? Speaker 1: I've never thought of that. That's so smart. Yeah. Well and and Speaker 0: If there's one place where an an actual rating system would matter and actually be important, it would be Wikipedia because we I think you and I agree that Wikipedia does have some decent articles. Right? Speaker 1: Great articles. Yeah. And and You wanna learn about the Falkland Islands? You wanna learn learn about some bird species? Yeah. It's amazing. It's that's why it's so frustrating. Speaker 0: Yes. So so, I mean, wouldn't it be nice if there were some independent reviews, independent of Wikipedia, that would, you know, give the public an a notion of whether they can actually trust the information. And I actually think that you should be able to identify and even rate the raters and say, okay. These accounts who have rated the Trump article very highly are mostly Democrats. And, those that rate the article, very poorly are mostly Republicans. And then you should there should be a system that would enable you to go and and learn what the best articles are, especially if they're competing articles, again, from anybody's point of view. Speaker 1: Yes. I love that. Speaker 0: Would be nice. Let's see. Thesis number eight, end indefinite blocking. Wikipedia's practice of blocking accounts permanently is unjust and ideologically motivated. So I did a little personal investigation last June. In a period of two weeks, 47% of the blocks that had been done by Wikipedia were indefinite, which means permanent. And you can sort of understand some of them because you're re blocking the same people who have already been blocked because they made new accounts. Those are called sock puppets. It's still a very, very high number. Right? And they do, as I have said, block willy nilly, and they will block permanently. I mean, there are people online who who complain that they were blocked for making grammar corrections. You know? I've seen, I don't know, three or four cases of just that. I I quote a few in the essay. So each of these theses, by the way, has a whole essay to go with it, which I very carefully wrote over the last nine months. Speaker 1: And where can interested people find that? Speaker 0: They can find it on my user page on Wikipedia. So just go there. I don't know if it'll be on the user page or maybe it will it will be linked from the user page, but it'll it'll be on Wikipedia itself. So I actually want to take the debate to them. You know? I still have an account in good good standing for now. We'll see if they block me over this. I'm not sure. But but I would like to start a debate there, so that's why I've posted it there. I also have a version of the nine theses on my blog, And it's it's identical, but it also has links to archived versions of all the resources that I cite. So they can't, like, take anything down without people knowing. Let's see. So I think that basically, indefinite blocks should be extremely rare. They should require multiple administrators to agree because right now, one person can, for arbitrary reasons, practically, block another account, an account in good standing that might have had, like, thousands of edits without really any meaningful recourse. Right? So at least let's have a panel of people convened if you want to block somebody permanently. And and, of course, you should be able to appeal your permanent block if you are permanently blocked every maybe three, six, maybe twelve months. Right? So the the idea is it's only fair to give people the opportunity to say, well, I've reformed. I'm not going to do what I've done before. People you remember the the movie Escape from Alcatraz? Yes. And there was a character in it who's befriended by Clint Eastwood's character who's this great painter, and he makes a a painting of the warden. The warden sees a copy of this as he's snooping around in a cell, and it's an unflattering picture of the warden. So that man's his painting supplies are taken away by the the warden, and they have so few joys in this place. It's like living death. And so the the painter then commit suicide. A lot of people feel very strongly about Wikipedia because it is a significant hobby in some cases, you know, in the way that, like, I play Irish fiddle. That's like my one of my big hobbies. And I don't know if you're fly fishing, I guess. Yeah. If you were to take this away from people forever, you know, just disallow them, then, you know, it it can be really upsetting to people.
Saved - October 2, 2025 at 3:37 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Why is Congress so cowed by Israel? Jeffrey Sachs has some thoughts. "Is it [blackmail]? Is it direct bribes? Is it fear?" https://t.co/AZYYKV0IIS

Video Transcript AI Summary
Speaker expresses disbelief at why Netanyahu—"an absolutely disgusting warmonger, who has dragged us into terrible wars, who is committing massive war crimes"—gets 57 standing ovations in the US Congress. He asks if the causes are "the APAC lobby, the Israel lobby? Well, partly," "Is it blackmail by Israel? Because there's no doubt a lot of credible claims of Epstein and more about blackmail," "Is it direct bribes?" "Is it fear of American politicians?" "Is it the mainstream media, which for a lot of reasons owned by a lot of billionaires that tend to be rather arted Zionists?" "Is it the larger Christian Zionist vote base, which is also a real thing?" He says, "none of it really adds up." "it's not in America's interest" to be "isolated in the world together with a murderous rogue state." He calls Israel "the most lawless state in the whole world right now," "at war in seven fronts." He notes UN exposure: "the UN... Israeli politicians come and they yell at the whole rest of the world," while "the US representative says, yes. Yes. We we are with Israel." Finally: "first, it's disgusting. Second, it is no rational basis. And third, if it is the money, the lobbying, the mass media propaganda, the really strange beliefs of some people, whatever it is, even all of that, doesn't add up because a president of The United States should be able to figure this out a little bit better."
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: I've seen this close-up for more than fifty years. And if you ask me, am I really sure why Netanyahu who is a absolutely disgusting warmonger, who has dragged us into terrible wars, who is committing massive war crimes, why he gets 57 standing ovations in the US congress. If you ask me in my heart, do I really understand that? Is it the APAC lobby, the Israel lobby? Well, partly. I is it blackmail by Israel? Because there's no doubt a lot of credible claims of Epstein and more about blackmail. Is it that? Is it direct bribes? Is it fear of American politicians? Is it the mainstream media, which for a lot of reasons owned by a lot of billionaires that tend to be rather arted Zionists? Is it, the larger Christian Zionist vote base, which is also a real thing? To tell you the truth, none of it really adds up. I agree. In full because this is not in America's interest. It's not in America's interest to be isolated in the world together with a murderous rogue state, which is sad to say what the Israeli government has become. It is the most lawless state in the whole world right now. It's committing massive war crimes. It is, as Netanyahu said, at war in seven fronts. If you're at war in seven fronts, that's pretty weird. That shows you don't have diplomacy. You have war as a policy. And, of course, Netanyahu does have war as a policy. And, you know, Tucker, I am at the UN a lot, so I I am in the UN Security Council a lot listening or participating in UN sessions. And and the UN, the Israeli politicians come and they yell at the whole rest of the world. And they yell at them in the most vulgar, stupid, prayer aisle and absolutely, imbalanced and irrational way. And then the the US representative says, yes. Yes. We we are with Israel. So if you ask me why this is fundamentally, first, it's disgusting. Second, it is no rational basis. And third, if it is the money, the lobbying, the, mass media propaganda, the really strange beliefs of some people, whatever it is, even all of that, for my mind, doesn't add up because a president of The United States should be able to figure this out a little bit better.
Saved - October 2, 2025 at 3:25 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Tucker Carlson's 4 changes Americans need to make in order to restore balance to our relationship with Israel. https://t.co/72QZ2BRfwC

Video Transcript AI Summary
Online Israel discourse splits into two extremes: 'deranged Taliban level ethno narcissists' and 'those who hate Jews'—with few conventional Christian voices urging a secular, non-judgmental stance. The four steps to health: 1) Global perspective: US 350,000,000 with vast resources; Israel 9,000,000 with no meaningful resources; 'two THAAD missile batteries in Israel... a quarter of the world's total supply.' Since 10/07/2023, 'the United States has spent at minimum $30,000,000,000 defending Israel' and around $300,000,000,000 over its existence; Egypt is also involved; India and China rivals. 2) Self-respect: stop being ordered around by a client state; Netanyahu says 'I control Donald Trump' and 'I control The United States Congress.' 3) Citizenship: restore equality; end dual citizenship; 'APAC should register under FARA.' 4) Theology: reject Christian claims that DNA-based chosenness is legitimate; 'the chosen people are those who choose Jesus' and 'God will pull the plug on us' if you don't support Israel.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: There's a lot going on in the world right now, but if you're on social media, and of course you are because it's really America's only remaining news source, you know there's only one story going on, and it's Israel. Everyone online is arguing about Israel. And really, they fall into one of two camps, generally speaking. So probably more aggressive side are the deranged Taliban level ethno narcissists who are telling you that any criticism of the secular government of Israel is tantamount to blood libel against the Jewish people. And if you think that maybe it was not a great idea to arm Joseph Stalin, the greatest murderer in history, then you're a holocaust denier. Shut up. And then on the other side, a group every bit as obsessed with Jews, the people who hate Jews who are telling you that anyone who's Jewish is bad by virtue of being Jewish. It's a blood thing. Two things are interesting. One, there are very few kind of conventional Christian voices saying, wait a second. This is a secular government, another country, and it has probably nothing to do with my religion or anybody's religion. And we should never judge people on the basis of their immutable qualities because guilt and virtue are not passed down genetically. But almost no one is saying that. So you really have the ethnomarcissists and the antisemites, and they're at war with each other. That's the online picture. What's even more interesting and maybe even more distressing is that in the US government, the conversation, while much more muted, is a mirror of this in that a lot of the conversation is about Israel. Israel, a tiny country in the Middle East. Not critical to our national security, by the way. But the conversation, the bandwidth is consumed by questions of Israel. So wherever you stand on Israel, whether you're on one of the two sides just described or neither one of them, you know in your gut that this is bad. If a country like ours, supposedly the most powerful in the world, is devoting all of its time internally to conversations about Israel, it's probably not going in a good direction. There's probably a lot being neglected in favor of this very specific boutique conversation about this tiny little country. It's just not good for anybody, including Israel, by the way. So what's the antidote to this? How do you fix it? Here are four things you can do to make the conversation about Israel and the relationship with Israel a lot healthier than it currently is. Here are the four. The first is get some global perspective on what we're talking about. The United States is a nation of 350,000,000 people. It has some of the deepest natural resources in the world that would include energy and water, agricultural products. The United States, however it's managed, is a powerhouse globally and always will be because its strength is inherent. It's a huge decisive country in the scope of world history. The United States makes things happen. Israel is not an insult, merely an observation. By contrast, is a tiny and inherently insignificant country, at least geopolitically, in that it has only 9,000,000 people and no natural resources, no meaningful natural resources. So it is insignificant. It is also physically tiny. It's about the size of New Jersey, famously, but it has a much smaller GDP than New Jersey. It is a much smaller economy than the state of New Jersey. It's an economy about the size of the state of Arizona and almost one half the economy of the state of Massachusetts or Illinois. It just doesn't really matter, actually. If you're looking at a map and thinking through, you know, where does power politics go, Israel's not even on the list. Again, it's tiny. It's got the population of Burundi. It's got a smaller population than Belgium. Like, what is this anyway? And yet, despite its objective insignificance, it is the focus of the conversation, but it's also the focus of the spending. So right now, as we speak tonight, there are two THAAD missile batteries in Israel. That's one quarter of the world's total supply of THAAD missile batteries. The THAAD missile batteries, an American made, very high-tech missile battery that takes incoming missiles out of the sky. And one quarter of the world's entire supply of these is in Israel right now manned by US troops, by Americans. In uniform or not, they are American military personnel. And they are manning these batteries to protect Israel. And that shouldn't surprise you because since 10/07/2023, which is a little less than two years ago, The United States has spent at minimum $30,000,000,000 defending Israel. Huge. And for some perspective, the entire Israeli military budget before October 7 was about 25,000,000,000. So United States has put at least 30,000,000,000 into defending Israel in less than two years. Over the course of its existence, a little less than eighty years, The United States has put 300,000,000,000, at least, those are just the on books numbers, into supporting Israel. 300,000,000,000. Israel is by far, no one comes close, the largest recipient of USAID over time. And currently. So anyone who says, oh, it's just a drop in the bucket. It's totally insignificant, is lying, or doesn't know the numbers. By the way, number two is Egypt. So why are we spending so much money on Egypt? Well, we're doing it at the request of Israel. So you could probably add that to the tally. It's not an attack. It's merely perspective. We are spending our time, our money, and we're taking enormous risks on behalf of a country that geopolitically is not significant at all. The interesting thing is most Americans have no idea that this is true. They don't know how disproportionate our attention to Israel and our spending on Israel is relative to the rest of the world. And if you want some sense of how disproportionate, India and China combined, neither of which is a strong ally at the moment, combined represent more than a third of the entire world's population. Both are rivals economically, both are rivals militarily, at least potentially. And our relationship with them has gotten worse or at the very least languished because of our relationship with Israel, because of the bandwidth consumed by tending to it, and also because of some of the inevitable conflicts that have arisen because of our support for Israel, which is engaged in an extremely controversial, which is to say hated war in Gaza, which is not even really a war. It's a massive displacement of people and killing on on a on a grand scale of unarmed people, of unarmed combatants, of civilians, of women and children. And the world sees this, and the world rejects it, and the world hates it. And so Israel's really last remaining ally of size other than The UK is The United States. And so there's a huge cost to this. But again, most Americans have no perspective on just how disproportionate our commitment is, because they marinate in lies about this relationship, mostly from our political class, also from the media. But really, if you were to lay the blame on one group in The United States, it's our elected leaders who continuously lie to us about the nature of this relationship, its significance, and they do it generationally. They've been doing it for many decades. Here and this is just one example, but the most fun to watch. This is Nikki Haley at the Republican presidential primary debate two thousand twenty three describing The United States' relationship with the state of Israel. Watch. Speaker 1: Last thing we need to do is to tell Israel what to do. The only thing we should be doing is supporting them and eliminating Hamas. It is not that Israel needs America. America needs Israel. Speaker 0: It is not that the Israel needs The United States. The United States needs Israel. How could that possibly be true? It is in no sense true. In fact, it's one of those lies that's not three degrees off the truth. It is a complete inversion of the truth. And the truth, which is obvious to anyone who looks at the numbers or is paying any attention at all, is that Israel could not survive without The United States. That's not an argument for pulling all aid to Israel. It's just an acknowledgment of the physical reality. Israel fights its wars with American backing, with the guarantee, the implied defense guarantee that we have provided for so many years since at least 1973. Fifty years. And its social services are made possible, which are quite generous, made possible by American subsidies. In other words, every dollar that goes to the Israeli military from The United States is a dollar that the nation of Israel can spend on its own people. And so there is no world in which America needs Israel more than Israel needs The United States. And, of course, Nikki was Haley was never asked to explain how exactly that could be true. What are you talking about, governor Haley? Not one person asked her that question. And no one asked her that question because anyone in whose mind that question appeared would have paused for fear of being attacked as an anti Semite for asking a question about geopolitics. That has been the state of play in The United States for my entire life, over fifty years. Politicians make nonsensical statements. Nobody wants to even ask a follow-up question for fear of being attacked. It is a state of perpetual intimidation. Everybody's afraid of Israel. Afraid of the topic. Afraid, in some cases, of the state itself. We have not had an honest conversation about this ever. Certainly not in my lifetime. And that suits the Israelis just fine. And if you're wondering why there's an awful lot of lunatic anti semitic comment about Israel online, you have to wonder how much of that is organic. Some of it, of course. There are always haters. But how much of it is not organic at all? How much of is of that, the lunatic, all Jews are evil, how much of that is being ginned up on purpose to make legitimate questions about the US government's relationship with the government of Israel seem like crackpot stuff? Like hate. Like David Duke level lunacy. Probably some, because it serves their interests. Now that is a criticism of the state of Israel and its incredibly sophisticated propaganda campaign, which again, the rest of us been marinating in for a long time. But the true villain here, I would argue, is not the state of Israel, the Jews. It's The United States. It's our leaders who are putting up with this. Israel is a small country with very limited resources and it is doing its best to serve its own interests. You'd think every country would act that way. And most do. But there are some that don't. And ours would top that list. And so the true shame here, the actual villain in this story is the leadership of The United States that is putting up with serial humiliation for decades. And for what reason? So if there's someone to be mad at, it's our leaders. And that leads to the second thing that we can do to fix this truly unhealthy relationship, this poisonous relationship, which is getting worse, by the way. It's breaking our society into pieces. It's truly hurting the Trump administration. The second thing we can do after getting global perspective on what we're actually talking about here, a tiny country that is in the deepest sense insignificant to The United States. The second thing we can do is get some freaking self respect and stop being ordered around by a client state. That's not good for us. It's not good for them. It's not good for anybody. It's like being screamed at by your children. No normal parent would allow that, because it's totally destructive. It's not good for you, and it's not good for the child. And that is exactly the relationship that we have with the state of Israel. In fact, not in theory, in fact, it is a huge country and a tiny country. The huge country supports the tiny country. And that's a pretty nice thing to do. Whether it's wise or not, it's a whole separate conversation. But if you're gonna have that relationship, a parent to a child, you cannot be yelled at, humiliated, spied upon, bossed around by the child, by the person in the inherently subordinate position. You can't do that. You can't be shamed into ignoring things that are quite clearly not the behavior of a subordinate ally to a big brother ally. For example, spying on the country that makes your economy and your defense possible, which the Israelis have been doing for generations. That's a fact. One of them very famously was caught, Jonathan Pollard, who's an American citizen, taking real secrets, like actual military secrets, and sending them to Israel, which promptly sent a bunch of them to the Soviet Union, which was our archrival, our foe at the time. And that happened, and he went to prison, and then somebody got out of prison and went to Israel where he continues to denounce The United States. And anyone who says anything about it is attacked, oh, you're an anti Semite. It's nothing to do with anti Semitism. That's insulting. Why would we ever put up with that? Why would we put up with the attack on the USS Liberty that everyone's so afraid to talk about? Clearly targeted on purpose by a country we're supporting, Israel. And it's somehow shameful to say that. Why? Why is it shameful to say that? Who knows why it's shameful to say that, but it shouldn't be. And until we have some self respect, not anger or hate, but just dignity, it will continue in June. For example, during the twelve day war, such as it was with Iran, The US and Israel versus Iran, bombing on all sides. During that short conflict, IDF officers in the Pentagon, foreign military officers in the Pentagon by the way, they're not the only foreign military officers in the Pentagon, to be clear. There are NATO officers. They're from other country British. But there are a bunch of Israeli defense force officers in the Pentagon that week. And during that week, ask anyone who works at the Pentagon, they enraged American Pentagon staff by just barging into meetings, giving orders, making demands, and nobody did anything about it. How can a foreign military officer barge into military headquarters, even if invited, barge into a meeting and start demanding, we want this, we want that, you need to get on this. The more you allow that kind of deeply unhealthy behavior, the more you're going to get. And that's exactly what has happened. Because of the weakness of our leaders, we have incited predators in a foreign country to take advantage of us. Oh, that's such an anti Israel thing to say. It's not anti Israel at all. It's a demand that the people whose job it is, whose sacred duty it is to defend and represent us, our leaders both at the Pentagon and all throughout the US government, that they do that. That they stand up and defend us against all potential threats, against all foreign countries to the extent they need to, and that they do not prostrate themselves before a foreign nation. That's just basic. Why have a government? Especially a strong government if it's taking orders from another weaker government, and that is the state of play. And it has been for a very long time. And they're not even pretending to such an extent that the prime minister of Israel goes on television to openly participate and meddle in internal American politics. Taking sides, attacking people, Americans. You wouldn't think it would be his business. He's not an American leader. He's not even an American citizen. Going on television to attack Americans because they're not fully on board with sending billions more to a country of 9,000,000 people? And in case you think that's an overstatement, here is the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, commenting on American politics. Speaker 2: We talked about the woke right. He said, I call it the woke reich. That's a brilliant Speaker 3: I don't know. The Speaker 2: woke Reich because these people, you know, they're not any different from the woke left. I mean, they're they're insane. They're amazing. But they're actually meeting on some of the things. We have to fight back. How do we fight back? Our influencers. I think you should also talk to them if you have a chance. To that community. They're very important. And secondly, we're gonna have to use the tools of battle, and the most important ones are social media. And the most important purchase that is going on right now is class Followers. Speaker 0: Five followers. TikTok. Speaker 2: TikTok. One. Number one. And I hope it goes through because it's it can be consequential. Mhmm. And the other one what's the other one that's most important? X. X. Speaker 0: That's very good. Speaker 2: And, you know, so we have to talk to Elon. He's not an enemy. He's a friend. We should talk to him. Now if we can get those two things, we get a lot, and I could go on on other things, but that's not the point right now. We have to fight the fight. Speaker 0: It's almost unbelievable that he said that on camera. Imagine. This is a foreign leader bragging about how he's censoring Americans. Again, this guy runs a country of 9,000,000 people that's totally dependent on our tax dollars to exist. And here he is on camera, and he's a sophisticated guy. He of course, he knows that he's being filmed saying, anyone who opposes me in The United States who opposes more aid to Israel or opposes getting sucked into war with Iran, which does not serve American interest, that person is not simply mistaken or wrong. I'm not gonna bother to explain why that person is wrong. That person is a Nazi, part of the woke Reich. A Nazi. And the only way to fix it is by preventing Americans in the last country on Earth with guaranteed freedom of speech, prevent Americans from hearing the other side. And so we push congress to force a TikTok sale, which is true, by the way. And when that happened and various members of congress, like, no. Really, it's about China. There were people in line who said, no. I think it's really about Israel. You you you kinda wish it was about China. Here he is just admitting, no. No. No. We pushed the US congress to censor in The United States, to commit censorship in The United States because we think it's bad for us. And we need to talk to Elon. The only reason we have free speech in The United States right now is because of Elon Musk. By the way, a naturalized American, a foreigner, who looked at The United States and said, what's great about that country? People can say what they believe because they're not slaves, they're not subjects of the state, they're citizens of a nation that they own. Free speech is central to the entire idea of America. In fact, it's really the only thing that sets us apart from any other country on Earth. It's not our market economy. It's freedom of speech. And here's this guy, a foreign head of state, who let me restate, is totally dependent on our tax dollars to exist, is saying Americans don't have that right, and he's gonna do some kind of secret pressure campaign on Elon Musk to censor x because it bothers Israel? You know, that's the point at which you just say no. Absolutely not. That is not allowed. But since no one has said that, it has continued. And that's why when you go on social media, you see person after person taking that guy's line. That guy's line. Repeating foreign government talking points on social media as Americans. Oh, you're you can't say that. It's true. It's a 100% true. And it's also totally counterproductive, by the way. This is not a sophisticated propaganda campaign. This is a brutal and brutish propaganda campaign, where anyone who disagrees with anything is immediately slandered and smeared. Megyn Kelly, who's gotta be the single most moderate person on the question of Israel, who said a 100 times and means it, by the way, I like Israel. I'm not against Israel. You know, but maybe it's not a great idea to get sucked into one of their wars. We've done that. Let's not do it again. Nazi! Immediately called her an anti semite and won't stop. Meanwhile, the actual anti semites, and there certainly are some online, never get criticized by Bebe or anyone else in his orbit. That's kind of interesting, isn't it? I wonder why that is. When you have actual antisemites. You know, doing videos making fun of Auschwitz, but they get a pass? Maybe things are not quite as they seem. But normal people who harbor no hate toward anyone or try not to, are immediately slandered in a way that makes it, in some cases, hard for them to have jobs if they deviate even a little bit. So what's the effect of this? Not that it's up to me to tell Israel how to run its propaganda campaigns. But the effect, just noticing, is that it turns allies into enemies. You can agree on 98% of things, but if you think maybe it was a bad idea to bomb Doha, Qatar, the site of the largest military base in the Middle East which exists to protect Israel, if you think it was a bad idea for the Israeli government to bomb Doha, then you're a what? A Nazi? Just in point of fact, by the way, Hamas was originally in Qatar because the Israeli government asked them to accept Hamas. That airbase exists to protect Israel, by the way. That was such a reckless and demented move that Mossad, Mossad, in Israel opposed it and wouldn't participate in it, because they thought it was too reckless. So to say that there is, you know, quite a bit of latitude for debate in Israel is an understatement. Mossad refused to participate in that. But, as an American, on social media, if you're like, I think it's a little crazy that our ally is bombing another one of our allies without even telling us, and then lying and pretending that they had permission from the president to do this, which they did not. If you say that, you're a Nazi? You're part of the woke reich? This can't continue. It's too crazy. It's counterproductive for them, and it's deeply destructive of our political conversation and of our country itself. And the good news is that the humiliation, which is gone mean, just give you one more example of the humiliation, which is almost beyond belief. So Israel's our greatest ally. We should never ask anything of them. Of course, you you heard Nikki Haley. You hear all of them say exactly the same thing. Protecting Israel is the most important thing. They're our only real ally. If they're our only real ally, why does Israel have a long history of transferring military technology, including American military technology, to China. To China? Most people have no idea that's true. It is true. Why is China running the Port Of Haifa, Israel's biggest port? Really, if they're such a close ally. And of course, the answer is because from Israel's perspective, we're not a close ally. We're a country that has been willing to help them, but when you only have 9,000,000 people and a limited defense budget, you know, you take help where you can get it. So the loyalty is not requited. It's one way. And I think the good news is that the government of Israel, in particular, the prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, has pushed it too far. And he did that in part by running around, telling people what he thought was true apparently, I control Donald Trump. I control the United States Congress. I control The United States. He said that to political allies and opponents in his country. He said it to foreign heads of state. Fact. I control these people. Don't you worry. And by the way, if you kick me out of office, the next guy probably won't have the level of control that I have. He's made that case. Openly. Verbally. He said it out loud. And that was too much for our president. And so, in one of the great moments, it was just It was a cool shower on a hot day. President Trump pushed back, not directly, but you can watch this clip and see that he's had enough. Here is president Trump the other day asked about Israel's plans to annex the West Bank. Watch. Speaker 2: Did you promise leaders this week that you would not allow Israel to annex the West Bank? Is that something that you Speaker 3: I will I will not allow Israel to annex the West Bank. Nope. I will not allow it. It's not gonna happen. Speaker 2: Did you speak with Netanyahu about this directly? Speaker 3: But I'm not gonna allow it. Whether I spoke to him or not, I did. But I'm not allowing Israel to annex the West Bank. Speaker 2: Mister Obama Speaker 3: There's been enough. It's time to stop. Speaker 0: It's been enough. I will not allow it. He's not just talking about the West Bank there, obviously. These are political people. They understand when your poll numbers fall dramatically, particularly among the young men who helped make you president, you have to ask why is that? And it's about this issue. Because it's too humiliating. And people who don't want to see their government bossed around by a tiny foreign power are not haters. They don't hate any ethnic group. They just don't want to be humiliated. And by the way, why should they be humiliated? That's the core problem right there. That's why Donald Trump has lost support over this Israel question, and he knows that, and he's pushing back. And there's just no question from that clip whatsoever. So the third thing I think that would be very helpful to restore health and balance the relationship between The United States and Israel is restore the concept of citizenship in The United States. If you're an American citizen, it means something. The first thing it means is equality. You are equal to every other citizen. There's no hierarchy of citizenship. All citizens are equal. Each gets one vote. Each gets justice before the law. That's the promise of The United States, and each gets to say exactly what he thinks. Period. Restore the value of citizenship. And the very first thing you were gonna you would do if you cared about that, and you should because the country can't continue without it, after you expelled everyone who's not a citizen from the country, which should happen immediately. They should be deported immediately for our own survival. But after doing that, the first thing you would do is not allow dual citizenship. Why would you allow that? You're a citizen of two countries. Can you really serve two masters simultaneously? By the way, it's not just Israelis who have dual citizenship. They're all every nationality has dual citizenship in this country. It's not just Israel. And it shouldn't be allowed for a single moment. What is that? Whose side are you on? Don't accuse me of dual loyalty. You're a dual citizen. Whether it's Argentina or Mali or Israel. Not allowed. And moreover, you are not allowed to serve in a foreign military without losing your American citizenship. You're fighting for another country? How can that be allowed? How can you retain your citizenship? By the way, why aren't you serving in our military? Every country has a different perspective on the world, and that grows from a whole bunch of different things. Their history, their language, their size, their resources. But each country is different, and each country has a different set of priorities. And if you're fighting in a military for a country, you are not serving America's priorities. You're taking up arms on behalf of foreign power. You're done. This would seem to be obvious. Many Americans have fought in Israel and Gaza. Many Americans have fought in Ukraine, by the way, and a lot of other countries for foreign militaries. Lose their citizenship immediately. Of course. Obviously. It's amazing that even exists. And APAC has to register under FARA, the Foreign Agent Registration Act of the nineteen thirties. Of course, it's a foreign lobby. There are a million of them. But it's only APAC that doesn't register, and it's only APAC that is somehow above criticism. It's a foreign lobby that's acting on behalf of foreign government and its its and its interests. Again, it's one of many, but it's the only one that doesn't have to register. And of course, should register immediately. You should know who is giving money to your politicians. You should know who is influencing them. There should be a record of that, as there is with any other nation, any other lobby of a foreign power. And only APAC is exempt, what is the effect of that? It makes everyone paranoid. Doesn't make people like Israel more. When a topic cannot be spoken about, and when anyone who raises it is called a Nazi, the woke Reich, or dismissed as a holocaust denier, anti semite, whatever, slandered in some way like that. It doesn't make the problem go away. It festers, and people go crazy and get angry and become resentful. End all that. There's no reason to conduct any business like that in secrecy. It doesn't make things better at all. It doesn't make the person doing it stronger. It makes him weaker, actually, in the end. And the last thing that I think we need to do to restore balance between the relationship between The United States and Israel and to restore some sanity to the public conversation on this topic is to get our theology right. And this is not a message aimed at Israelis or Jews. This is a message aimed at Christians who are the largest group of Israel supporters in The United States. And their view of Israel is colored not just by sentimental attachment, which is fine, or trips to Israel. Great. No problem. But by a Christian heresy, the oldest of the Christian heresies, which is that God somehow prefers some people based on their DNA. And of course, the whole point of Christianity is that that is no longer true. That there is no chosen people. The chosen people are people who choose Jesus. That is the Christian message right there. It's not an anti semitic message, by the way. It's the Christian message. It's the core Christian message. And yet, there are many, many self described representatives of the Christian faith, the world's largest, who are daily sending a different message. And we should be very clear. Whatever this is, it's not Christianity, it is heresy. And among the many examples we could pick, we're gonna go, because we couldn't control ourselves, with Lindsey Graham. Watch. Speaker 4: To people in my party, I'm tired of this crap. Israel is our friend. They're the most reliable friend we have in the Mideast. They're a democracy surrounded by people who would cut their throats if they could. This is not a hard choice if you're an American. It's not a hard choice if you're Speaker 0: a Christian. Speaker 4: A word of warning, if America pulls the plug on Israel, God will pull the plug on us. Speaker 0: God will kill you if you don't support Bibi Netanyahu. That's what he's saying. And there are cheers, unfortunately. Cheers when he said that God will kill you. He will pull the plug on you like a quadriplegic in intensive care. You're gonna flatline unless you support the secular abortion on demand government of Israel. That's the Christian perspective, really. That God loves some people more because of their DNA? That is not the Christian message. That's the opposite of the Christian message. The Christian message is universal. That's the whole point of it. The chosen people in Christianity are those who choose Jesus. The entire New Testament is that story. And anyone who says otherwise has not read it or is lying. God does not prefer you because of your DNA, or anyone else because of their DNA. Period. So the fact that people can stand up in The United States in 2025 and say something like that, and by the way, not even make the case, Just invoke the power of God as a weapon. He will kill you. He'll pull the plug on your country unless you go along with this. We need more war. Listen to yourself. And it's not just Lindsey Graham. It's the speaker of the house, Mike Johnson. It's a lot of people. Some of whom are very nice people. People who have dinner with him, they seem perfectly normal. But this is a heresy and it's deranged. And you know it's deranged because it's a justification for killing the innocent. And in Christianity, if there's one thing that's crystal clear, it's that Christians cannot abide the killing of the innocent. People who have done nothing wrong cannot be killed. That's a sin. You are not allowed to do that. Period. And if you find anyone leveraging the message of Jesus to justify the killing of innocents, that person is committing heresy. So those are the four things I think that we probably should do right away to restore some balance and health, reduce the craziness in the relationship and the conversation about Israel.
Saved - September 27, 2025 at 1:55 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Alex Jones and Charlie Sheen’s Attempt to Force Obama Into Releasing 9/11 Files https://t.co/cwHQFwp4Ls

Video Transcript AI Summary
Charlie Sheen recounts emailing Alex Jones: "Zero hours upon us." Jones called back in ten minutes and flew out to meet. They created "twenty minutes with the president," a fictional online piece in which Sheen sits with Obama and asks "20 questions about nine eleven" and whether to reopen "a new nine eleven commission." The piece claimed it "has not taken place, but we're hoping one day that it could" and attracted a dismissed White House response: deputy press secretary Bill Burton called, "Never gonna happen." They hoped for a debate with Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo; "Nobody bit" and "Charlie Sheen's obviously crazy." Later, Sheen produced a nine-eleven doc, and hosted a "weekend of truth" with Jones. They discussed Building 7, the Pentagon, and "There were two videos from the parking lot" for the kiosk. They stress trusting "your own perceptions" and that "The whole world was different" pre/post.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: When Alex and I got together and, you know, I sent him an email that I told you about. Yeah. Yeah. And and my last line was zero hours upon us. Speaker 1: So so just for people who weren't at Speaker 0: Oh, I'm Speaker 1: sorry. Breakfast here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. That you saw something he did, and you just emailed him cold. Speaker 0: I did. I said, hi, Alex. I'm a fan for years. Perhaps you've heard of me. My name is Charlie Sheen. I said, we we we have to talk. Zero hour is upon us. And he and he called in ten minutes. Amazing. Speaker 1: Yeah. And then flew out to see you. Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. And then we thought, okay. Let's build a secret weapon. Let's do something that that, like, is unique and and and, you know, let's do something within in the media. Let's use the media to to try to I guess this would have been o seven, o eight. Yes. So we got together, and we and we wrote this piece called twenty minutes with the president. And what it was, it was a fictional retelling of this twenty minutes that I was granted by Obama, and it was me sitting down with him, asking him 20 questions about nine eleven and and asking him that that the based on on these just the irrefutable bullet points that that if if he would consider activating you know, reopening a new nine eleven commission. And we put it online And what we Speaker 1: And this was you didn't actually get twenty minutes till Obama had asked. Speaker 0: No. It was all made up. It was all made up. But the research that Alex and I dug into that that we that we because we, you know, we we we it could have been a 100. It could have been a 100 questions. Could have a hundred minutes with the president, and we we we drilled down into the 20 things that were really bulletproof, really bulletproof. And so we we published it online, and and we let it kind of marinate for about twenty minutes before we added the following has has has not taken didn't actually take place, but we're hoping one day that it that it could or that it might or so we did let kind of the hysteria build a little bit that people thought, holy hell, man, did Sheen and Obama think right? Like, this thing actually happened and because we didn't want to prejudice it with it being, you know, a work of fiction right from send. And it was a little bit of a manipulation, but so what? Right? I mean Speaker 1: Did anyone from the Obama White House reach out to you? Speaker 0: There's a guy. He was the deputy press secretary. His name was Bill something. Bill Burton? Yes. Yeah. He called me. Speaker 1: I got the memory. Speaker 0: Well done. Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaker 0: Yeah. Because I knew his name was the same two initials. Yeah. He called me, and I said, how's it? Yeah. Hey. Thank thank you. And he's like, yeah. That that that that thing that you and your buddy wrote, that that that meeting you're looking for, never gonna happen. Those were his words. Never gonna happen. I said, well, that's a shame because it really should. He said, okay. Alright. Good luck to you. Have a nice day. It was like a fourteen second phone call. Yeah. But anyway, so yeah. And I guess and then Alex said, look. When this thing goes out, they're not gonna debate any of it because because we, you know, we told, it was Bill O'Reilly. It was Haraldo Rivera. We said, we'll we'll sit down and debate you just on these 20 things, and nobody bit. And Alex said, look. They're just gonna call you. Nobody bit? No. Nobody nobody nobody took the challenge. Speaker 1: And you're at the height of the show's popularity. Speaker 0: Yeah. Nobody took the debate challenge. Speaker 1: You're one of the most famous actors in the world Right. And you're offering talk show hosts the opportunity to be on their show Right. To talk about something that is really interesting and controversial, and they say no? Speaker 0: They said no. Speaker 1: Yeah. What do you think now what do you think that is, Charlie Sheen? That's a little weird. It's a little weird. Having been in the talk show business, I can promise you. Speaker 0: Yeah. It was You should Speaker 1: have called me, man. I would have done it in a second. Yeah. Well Probably scolded you for your ridiculous questions, but I still would have done it. Speaker 0: Right. Yeah. Our our our disrespecting the memory of Speaker 1: the victims. Yeah. How dare we? Finding out why they were murdered is disrespect. Speaker 0: Right? Wow. Speaker 1: Now, I know it's insane, and always force myself to admit that I had these views because I want to be less judgmental toward other people, and reminding yourself what an asshole you are is a really good way to be less judgmental. But also because it's like it's a feature of human nature that we don't want to know the truth about things, actually. Interesting. Don't you think that's true? Well, it's clearly not true for you, but it has been true for me. I don't wanna know. Right. I don't wanna know that. Speaker 0: What what do what do we then do with that with that information? Speaker 1: Trust me. I'm not defending that attitude at all. I'm ashamed that I had it, but I just think it's more calm. And I think of myself as, like, one of the most open minded people I know. I mean, I am very, very open minded. I'll entertain any possibility because I've seen so much that you cannot entertain any possibility. Right. But if I have felt that way, that means that it's probably just how people are built, and you have to convince them that they should know what's true. Sure. That the truth does matter, actually. Speaker 0: It does. It does. But Alex said they're just gonna paint you as as crazy. Of course. But and and I and I said, really? That that's like they can't get more creative than that? He says, no. They're just gonna call you crazy. And smash cut to, like, a week later, and it was it was literally it was Bill O'Reilly and it was Geraldo, and they just dismissed me in one sentence. Well, Charlie Sheen's obviously crazy. Speaker 1: No. Yeah. Yeah. We just did nine eleven doc, and it was an amazing experience for me to be involved in this because I not only bought the nineeleven story, I was very resistant to anyone who questioned it because it felt like disrespectful or desecrating the crave. I don't know why I had that incredibly embarrassing, not at all noble reaction to people's honest questions about nine eleven. So it took me a long time to want to rethink it. And then once you do, you realize like it's just a tissue of lies. At what point did you start asking questions about it? Speaker 0: O four, o five, whenever loose change dropped. Yeah. That was the first well, no. Actually, on the day. Really? On the day. Yeah. There were things and Millie and I had a because everybody, like, rushed to Malibu. We were, like, in the city. I was in a high rise. I didn't know how far this thing reached, you know, like, everybody just had to get the bay get back to the folks house. Like, you know, let's let's reassemble at base camp, you know. And Emily when I were out on the deck and I said, you know, man Speaker 1: At your parents. Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. And I said, there's something about the way that building came down. I'm just I don't know. And and, you know, by that point, we had seen different angles of it and it was really it was you know, there was there was a lot of content to to digest, you know, horrific content, I might add, and we just yeah. And then I I just thought, nah, because that would entail- Speaker 1: Of course. Right? Speaker 0: All of these things. Speaker 1: You just shut it down in Speaker 0: your head. Yeah. We talked each other out of it because that would entail. Speaker 1: Right. It's interesting though that two guys in the business of, like, manufacturing images. Right. Would focus on that image and say that or something about that. That's weird. Speaker 0: Right. And so I kind of just let it I let it, you know, just didn't didn't go near it. Yeah. And then, you know, it led to what it led to. The the the the the whole world was different. You know? Whole world was different. Speaker 1: It's never returned to what it was. Speaker 0: No. It really hasn't. No. There there's pre and there's post. Yes. And then I watched that documentary. I'd been, you know, a fan of Alex's early stuff, you know, and that's, you know, just him. Speaker 1: So you knew who he was on Speaker 0: Yeah. Friday on How? How did I Speaker 1: He's my friend. I would mean no disrespect. I love him. He's coming here in a month, but I'd never heard of Alex Jones on 09:11, and I was in the news business. I don't know. How would you have heard of him? That's amazing. Speaker 0: Just, you know, spending time, like, in those on those research channels in in just in in that part of the of the, you know, those subjects, you know. Speaker 1: It's interesting that you so you have long felt like you wanna look at other sources of information. Of course. Speaker 0: Yeah. I've I've always done my own research. Always. And then Speaker 1: Do you know other people? Did you know other people around 09:11 who already were thinking like this? Like, maybe reality as as presented to us is not entirely real. Speaker 0: The people would believe things only so far. Yes. And so I would back off, and I say, you know what? We're just gonna we're just gonna focus on two things. We're just just two things, and if you can explain those, I will I will I I I'll submit to the official story. I'll just say, alright. Fine. However you however you say it had to play out, I'm in. Right? And it was Speaker 1: But explain these anomalies Speaker 0: Building 7 Of The Pentagon. Yeah. Just help me out there. You know? I've gotta believe that the Pentagon is the most protected and documented, you know, video protected, surveilled building in the history of the known universe. Right? Turns out not. Well, I'm saying Speaker 1: But think we just have two videos from the parking lot. Speaker 0: Kiosk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's the thing. And then and then That is weird, isn't Speaker 1: it? Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. And then Building 7, it just you can't you just can't. You can't watch that and say that is the result of a fire that burned for five hours on two floors. You can't sell that to me. And I and and and, you know, that for years that was always met with that is disrespecting the victims. And I'm like, I don't okay. How? How is that disrespecting the fallen heroes? How? If you're just looking for the truth behind what is clearly not what how how it was explained. Clearly. I mean, a three year old could look at that and know, you know, that looked like that hotel in Vegas that we watched Yeah. Them bring down intentionally. You know? So that's how I met Alex, was reaching out Trust Speaker 1: your eyes. You've always trusted your own perceptions. Speaker 0: Yeah. And but I I did this in the middle of two and a half at its peak, decided to to be vocal about 09:11. And network on the studio, they were like, oh my gosh. There's actually a commercial because one of the advantages we had with that show promotionally was the NFL. Yeah. Because we were a Monday show all of Sunday. All the CBS football games on Sunday were just, you know, every twenty minutes, it's the commercial for us, and that is like a built in thing to keep the ratings and the momentum in the eyes and all of it. Yeah. And it was it was great. It's the best tool you could possibly have. So they made a commercial, like a a promo, and it's probably on YouTube somewhere. Someone out there is gonna find it. Right? And it opens with, Charlie has a lot of questions, And then my character would be, hey, Alan. You know, where'd you hide the beer? Hey, mom. Where'd I leave my car? Charlie's really curious. Hey. Yeah. You know, is that is that is that is that is that a silk bra or is that polyester? Whatever, like, actual lines from the show to support Charlie's curiosity, Charlie Harper. Right? Yeah. But Charlie in the world, like going into places that on a corporate level with a giant hit show, your lead actor is not supposed to be doing. So they tried to make it kinda like, hey. He's doing these things, but don't worry. He's still he's still in our world doing them. You know? They they just it was it was kind of a brilliant piece of propaganda if you think Speaker 1: about it. Right? I was just thinking that it's a judo move. You take the energy and you pull it in your direction. Speaker 0: Right? Yeah. And I remember watching it, and I was flattered that they, like, put all that energy into this thing that that I'm sure was upsetting a lot of people, and I never saw it again. Speaker 1: Did they ever say anything to you directly about your questions about nine eleven? Speaker 0: Kind of, but not really. Things like, maybe it's not the best time to be doing this kind of research, kid. Maybe, you know, take a little a little pause for the cause. Yeah. I was and and yeah. They they but they didn't, like, you know, show up at my house Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: Like they did for, you know, going crazy on dope or testosterone. But, yeah, they they they were they were nervous, and so and I did pull it back. I did organize a symposium in LA though with a three day event called the weekend of truth. Alex Jones was the key speaker in the middle of two and a half. Seriously? Yeah. I did. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Did you feel that your job was at risk by doing that? Speaker 0: I thought the other stuff was more important than than my job. Really? Yeah. No. I it just Speaker 1: How many lead actors on hit shows put anything above their job? Speaker 0: Cult of one? Yeah. None. None. Well, dad. My dad has at times gone heavily against the grain in the face of, you know, the same type of pressure. Speaker 1: Yes.
Saved - September 22, 2025 at 5:31 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Church Attendance Is Booming Following Charlie Kirk's Death. Orthodox Priest Explains Why. https://t.co/viRrMJmqJQ

Video Transcript AI Summary
"If you read the patriarchal histories in the opening books of the bible, if you read Genesis, for instance, chapter six, this is the account of God regretting that he had made the human race." "the world had become full of violence." "When you attack another man when you attack another man, you attack God because every human being, as you were just saying so beautifully, is made in the image of God." "we have this level of violence in a culture that murders unborn children at the rate that we do and have sustained it for the decades that we have." "The statistics are horrible for our country. We are so captured, by an ideology that is hopeless, atheism, strict secularism, which is running our country now." "Without that belief, certainly, we have no future."
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: If we're gonna look for hope, it can't be fake. It can't be fake. We have to assess where we are. And violence has a as a sin, violence has a very special serious place. You know? If you read the patriarchal histories in the opening books of the bible, if you read Genesis, for instance, chapter six, this is the account of God regretting that he had made the human race. What could the human being have possibly been doing to make God regret having made us? And the consequence, Moses tells us, is that he sent a worldwide universal flood. Yes. Moses articulated the reason, the reason God did that and had to start over with Noah. And in fact, he made Noah a second Adam. He gave the same commission to Noah that he gave to Adam, be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth, rule it, subdue it. Why did he do that? It says because the world had become full of violence. Yes. When you attack another man when you attack another man, you attack God because every human being, as you were just saying so beautifully, is made in the image of God. And so to attack a human is a direct divine offense. Violence is extremely serious. I'm not surprised, that we have this level of violence in a culture that murders unborn children at the rate that we do and have sustained it for the decades that we have. Yes. Really, is any violence, surprising? Do we have do we have hope? That's what you asked me. So forgive me, but that's the background. That is how black it is. Yes. I agree. How black it is. Do we have hope, and what's the future? I would say that from without a without a belief, that God is merciful and that he loves the human race and that there's no sin so great that if we repent of it, he will not send his love and forgiveness. Without that belief, certainly, we have no future. The statistics are horrible for our country. We are so captured, by an ideology that is hopeless, atheism, strict secularism, which is running our country now. It is extremely hopeless. Yes. And, without an a major reconsideration on the part of our people, a return to classic American virtues, a recovery of Christian faith. Without that, certainly, we're doomed. But we know we know from Christian history that repentance is possible, and it usually takes in a in a in a national sense in a personal sense, it's up to us to repent and to believe. In a national sense, it takes leadership. Leadership that is willing to address the important things at the heart of national catastrophe. We have been living through national catastrophe. We have lost our faith in God. All of our institutions have been captured by by strict secularism. Our law is godless. Our ins our our universities, exclude God. Our our country is, has gone down a very, very serious deep hole. If we're going to get out, if we're gonna have hope as a nation, we need leadership. Leadership in the likes of, George Washington. I think our forebears our forebears are ashamed. My grandparents and America, they're ashamed of where we are, Tucker, as a nation. Our relationship to faith, our our explicit commitment to God are excluding him from everything that's important in America. We have to repent, and we need someone. Give us God someone like a king David. Give us someone like my patron saint, Josiah, who was the last great king of Israel, who himself lived at a terrible time. His father and his grandfather were both awful kings who had completely apostatized, abandoned the heritage of, Israel, led the people to copy the pagan practices of the surrounding nations. And forgive me. We're way worse than pagans. I I always tell people, look. Don't call the secular nonsense that's going on in America pagan. That's an insult to the pagans. The pagans believed in the divine order. They believed in the gods. Okay. We don't believe that there are gods. There is one god. But the pagans at least knew they were accountable to the divine order. They were accountable to the gods and that they had to live with respect to the wishes of the gods to call America, which has no reference. Most of our leaders make no reference to God at all. They they make they act as though they are not accountable to God's law, and I think that's far, far worse than paganism and a full blown insult to paganists to call it pagan. No. Unless we have a leader who's going to address this, it needs to be addressed, right, directly. We need to repent, and we need to recover our faith. If we do that, times of refreshing will come from from God. We can we can be changed. A new day can arise, but it's not gonna be with a little fix. It's not gonna be with a a little something here or a little something there. I've never seen I I've been a priest for almost thirty three years. I've never seen the radical interest in faith that we're seeing right now. I'll tell you. If I use my parish just as a little example, I have maybe, I don't know, little more than a thousand active parishioners that are here regularly. And all over the years of my ministry, I've I've catechized, I've instructed, and prepared people for baptism. You know, maybe twenty, thirty, 40, a really great year would be 40 people. I have over 200 people in catechism right now, and this is happening all across the country. People are moving towards God, moving towards faith. If this continues and it translates into lives that are rooted, lives that are, where faith is important, where true repentance has happened, where this quest for just biological life as though that somehow the sum total of value is rejected. You know, if you study the scriptures, there's three types of life that are described in scriptures. There's biological life. In Greek, it's called from where we get biological. Right? There's the life of the soul. Many Americans don't even know that that exists. That's called. It's the life it's the most noble part of you. Right? Even the Greek pagans, they use this again, knew that. The body is like a chariot, and the soul is like the charioteer. Leading the person in nobility said that the body does virtue. The body does something beautiful. Right? If you don't think you have, if you think you're just a body and you don't have a soul, which, by the way, is the worldview of the major tech titans of our country. This is why someone as noble as Elon Musk is becoming would stand up and speak to to the protesters in England when they were saying, what can we do? What's our future? And he said, what? He said, technology and AI. I promise you, Tucker, technology is not gonna save us. No. It is not gonna save us. And to say that is such is so hopeless. If we are soulless and we have greater technology, then the soulless are gonna use that greater technology to oppress us. Of course. We need we need to affirm what all reasonable human beings in civilized countries, the modern nuts secular West. If we don't recognize that a human being is more than his body, he has more than vios, more than biological life. He has the life of his soul, And then there's something that's most important, which is eternal life. It's called in the scriptures. Eternal life. This is the life of God's kingdom. These are the three fundamental lives. Two of them, we have stopped talking about for many decades, and the consequences have been tragic.
Saved - September 22, 2025 at 5:31 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Scott Adams on the Assassination of Charlie Kirk and How Violence Has Infected America https://t.co/iqma6mDTFB

Video Transcript AI Summary
The discussion asks how someone could reach the point of shooting a living human being, noting: “how did somebody get to that place where it seemed perfectly reasonable for them to get a gun and and shoot a living human being.” It describes a “wall to wall Hitler, Hitler, Nazis, twenty four hours” era that creates a “Hitlerian bubble” through repetition: “it's the repetition that matters, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler and you convince people that they're living in a hellscape and they better do something about it.” It warns of “mass hysteria” and says “Cognitive dissonance will kick in if you show them a counterexample.” It states: “None of them are true. And there were a lot of them. They were all either a made up quote or a quote and a context and nothing else.” It notes a surge of activism after Charlie Kirk's death: “tens of millions of people simultaneously said, what can I do? What can I do right now?” and plans to “start another chapter of, you know, TP USA.” It contrasts Democrats’ machine—“they had the media in their pocket”—with Republicans, who, it says, “I've never heard one say anything suggesting violence.” It concludes the aim is “Power. Democrats know that they can win an election that way,” while Trump is described as “the most charismatic leader with sensational ideas.”
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Tell us what you think the lesson of Charlie Kirk's life and death are. Like, what what strikes you immediately? Speaker 1: Well, you know, one of the big questions is how did somebody get to that place where it seemed perfectly reasonable for them to get a gun and and shoot a living human being. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: Some people know in your audience that I'm also a hypnotist. I'm a trained hypnotist. And so I tend to look at these situations through that filter. And through that filter, you can see a really clear cause and effect. You know, starting around, let's say, 2016, there was wall to wall Hitler, Hitler, Nazis, twenty four hours. Before that, there had been other Republicans who had been accused of being Hitler. But I think that everybody treated it like hyperbole. You know, it's, oh, it's just this you know, it's a it's a political insult. It is the most common one, so you don't take it too seriously. Yes. But imagine being a young kid and growing up when the the news, the people in nice clothing would go on TV and they would say in all seriousness, know, he's basically Hitler, the Nazis are coming. And you would you would create a mass hysteria. Now, a mass hysteria would be worse than TDS or Trump derangement syndrome because that would be sort of what happens to an individual, you know, they could have TDS. But if you have a lot of people who have TDS and they start talking to each other, pretty soon you've got a mass hysteria. And the mass hysteria created this what I call a Hitlerian bubble, Meaning that a lot of people are living in what they think is a reality that is just completely hellarized. They see Hitler everywhere. They see it in Trump. They see it in his lieutenants and this is different. So this is not like what we've seen before. All it takes to completely brainwash somebody to believe ridiculous things even things that their observations would you should tell them are not true. All you need is people in good suits who whose job makes them seem credible to say day after day, it's the repetition that matters, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler and you convince people that they're living in a hellscape and they better do something about it. So so the main thing I saw was that. And then, you know, once the bubble is formed, it's it's hard to get out. You mean you can't talk people out of it. There's no amount of information that will change their mind. Cognitive dissonance will kick in if you if you show them a counterexample. And the weird thing about Charlie who I'd never met by the way, I I didn't have the pleasure. The weird thing is that when I started hearing all the accusations and there were a lot of them, I said to myself, well, I'll bet some of these might be a little bit true. So I started to look for the original quotes, etcetera. None of them are true. And there were a lot of them. They were all either a made up quote or a quote and a context and nothing else. And when you hear people talking about it, especially the young people, they'll say things like, he was a bad hater person but there's no example. So that that's sort of the the sign that is, you know, a mass hysteria because they can't give reasons and they don't seem too interested in the reasons. They're just sure that something has to be done. Now on top of that for the young people, there's probably also an economic pressure, know, that they might feel that life doesn't have a positive path So that that might be playing into this a little bit as well. But I do wonder what will happen and I predict that there's gonna be another big bubble of psychological distress when the people who have said such bad things about him in public realize that none of it was true. Because over time, it looks like he's gonna be talked about so much that we'll, you know, we'll finally have a complete body of information about him so we can understand them. And it won't happen to most people. Most people will just have cognitive dissonance. They'll still believe he was, you know, Hitler junior but there's there will be some people, you know, not not a big percentage, we're gonna realize that they did something so shameful that it will haunt them for the rest of their lives. That that they were part of saying something terrible about one of the best people that we've witnessed. I mean, he genuinely was a high character person and you can see him everything he did. So there's something big coming up. Yeah. But then another thing that happened that was fascinating to me because I didn't expect it which was the democrats have always had what I'd call them machined which is that since they work with the media, you know, they had the media in their pocket, you would see it happen when they'd have some, alright, our message this week are these words and then everybody would say the same words and then the media would just pump it out. So it was like this big well functioning machine and then they had the NGOs and all the funding tricks, etcetera. But when Charlie Kirk died, you could almost feel this massive energy being released. You know, he he sort of controlled it but when it was released, you know, his his mortal coil was no more. I feel like that energy just went into people. And suddenly, tens of millions of people simultaneously said, what can I do? What can I do right now? And that's different. People don't say, I'm gonna stop everything. Tell me what to do. I'm gonna go to church. A lot of people did. I'm gonna say stuff on social media. I'm gonna hunt down the people who said bad things and cancel them, but I'm gonna do something. You know, we're we're we're gonna figure out how to start another chapter of, you know, TP USA and all of that's happening and it doesn't seem to be slowing down, you know, the vigils, etcetera. If anything, the energy, it might be growing. And I've never seen anything like it in my life. I've never seen the republicans turn into their own machine and now it is a machine and it's gonna be incredible. So, you know, I was thinking yesterday, it sounds like a joke but it's quite serious. The thing that protects the Democrats from, you know, also having some kind of problem like this is that they don't have any leaders that are worth taking off the board. I mean, if if you said to me, somebody's got a plot to take Tim Walz off the board, I would say, oh, no. No. If you're a republican, you ought to keep him there because he he he's not doing a good job, you know. You're you're Jasmine Crockett's, you're Chuck Schumer's. I say, please keep them right where they are. They're doing a great job. Nobody nobody needs to harm them. But on top of that, I don't believe that Republicans, conservatives ever even think that way. I've never heard one say anything suggesting violence. Like not even in just a casual conversation, the joking way you might do it in private, nothing like that. And I think it has to do with the fact that overall, the the conservatives, the republicans, MAGA people tend to look at democrats almost as if they're clowns. They they say things that literally make me laugh. No joke. I I sound like Biden there, but I literally that frightened me a little bit. I literally will watch the news and watch Republican, you know, prominent people talking because I think it's funny. And when they watch when the left watches the right, they think they're watching monsters. Yes. So you can imagine how that somebody wanna kill a monster, but nobody wants to kill a clown. Well, maybe somebody does but, you know, so far republicans have not wanted to kill any clowns. And I do think well, first of all, cancellations we're seeing, I have a little bit of mixed feelings about it because my point of view is that the people involved who are getting canceled are themselves brainwashed. And I don't mean that in sort of the I don't know. The the hypothetical way or anything. Like, I mean, actually, literally, they've been exposed to the strongest brainwashing you would have which is about eight years of wall to wall Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler and, you know, Charlie's one of the generals. So if you can't get to the Hitler, you're thinking, well, you know, maybe maybe one of the generals will be less protected and that was the case. But I feel a little bit bad for them because they're they're victims too. But at the same time, the way society works, you can't let them get away with that. So you know, there has to be some some reckoning. And I am enjoying, I have to say, being a cancelled person myself. I am enjoying the Schadenfreude or the you know, the the catharsis of seeing that it can go both ways at least for now. And by the way, do think that the violence goes in both directions but I don't think that there is a an equivalent to a massive machine that's been creating a situation that guaranteed there would be violence. If you just keep saying Hitler and you're selling it not as hyperbole, but you're selling it as absolute fact, the people who don't have access to alternative theories are gonna believe that and and they're gonna act on it. So and I like the fact that there's a little mutually assured destruction. The the left is getting to see a little bit of payback reminding that the that the Republicans aren't gonna take infinite abuse. You know, there's gonna be a point where it's gonna come back. Like, I like that. But it just you know, overall, I wouldn't be proud of it, you know, the the cancellations. I do believe that they're they're brainwashed victims. So may And I do wonder. Yeah. Go ahead. Speaker 0: Well, I thought your description of brainwashing seems accurate. It's very distressing to think that could happen in our free republic, you know, the free and brave United States. I thought the people were more independent minded than that, so that's sad. It's probably just human though, a weakness that we all share, the susceptibility to propaganda. But that why would you want to hypnotize a population or a portion of it? Like usually there's a goal in mind. What's the goal here? Speaker 1: Well, power. Democrats know that they can win an election that way. If they had better ideas and better policies and charismatic leaders, I imagine that's what they'd go with. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: But you know, Trump enters the contest and you have the most charismatic leader with sensational ideas according to at least his base. What are you gonna do? You know, he's the common sense guy. Are you gonna say, we really do want the border open? We we really do want a little bit more crime in our urban centers? What are you gonna do? You you don't have any kind of a rational attack to the common sense president who's been here before and knows how to get this stuff done. So it's just all they have. And I don't know that it's I don't know that it's intentional that they did it so hard that it guaranteed violence. I don't think violence was the intention. I think just winning elections was the intention. Speaker 0: Yeah. That sounds right.
Saved - September 22, 2025 at 5:25 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Left-Wing Cenk Uygur Remembers His Encounter With Charlie Kirk: “Universally Wonderful” https://t.co/gR0gm5HfVa

Video Transcript AI Summary
Two political figures—Tucker Carlson and Cenk Uygur—recount their journey from a heated Politicon exchange in 2018 to constructive dialogue at TPUSA AmericaFest and RNC 2024. They acknowledge ongoing disagreements (gun rights, trans issues) but describe a shift around economics: "the money in politics issue connects to everything" and "private equity is the biggest bankers in the world, basically" buying homes. "The number one wealth creation asset that the American family has is their homes," and "they are giving collectively billions of dollars to our politicians," fueling higher housing prices and donor influence. They claim "the average guy is getting screwed" and find common ground on corporate rule and the donor class. They champion "anti war" and say "violence is intellectual surrender," oppose "hate speech" laws—"the idea of making laws against hate speech in honor of Charlie Kirk"—and reject "cancel culture." They urge dialogue and "take the win" when agreement arises.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: You had this kind of famous exchange with him. I think it was 2018 at Politicon, and it got super heated and bitter, and it was like I don't know if things were viral in 02/2018, but it was viral. And then you came back to a TP USA event, and I was amazed and impressed both that he invited you and that you came. And you still disagreed on some things, but it was, I mean, the tone was completely different. Can you explain that? And better and great, I thought. Speaker 1: Yeah. So first of all, in 2018, that was a Politicon that I debated you. Oh, okay. So Speaker 0: We got along pretty well as I remember. Speaker 1: We did. We did. And Charlie was debating my nephew, Hassan Okay. Hassan Piker. And but I couldn't help myself because that's who I am. And I in the middle of their debate, I said something to Charlie when I I wasn't on stage. I was in the crowd. And he yelled at me, I live like a capitalist every day, Shank. And and we by the way, some people then thought that it was a racial slur. No. That was just my name. He was just slightly mispronouncing it. So then, actually, something happened in between that moment in Turning Point USA, America Fest. So we were at the RNC in 2024, and, Charlie came by at our booth and said, hey. Do you guys wanna talk? And we were a little bit taken aback by that. We're really surprised by it. And Anna and I Anna Kasperian is my cohost on The Antwerks Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: Talked it over and said, yeah. Yeah. We would like to talk. And so he came on the show, and so we had our disagreements. So for the it's interesting that you have me on here, you know, partly for the reasons that, you know, your friend texted you about. Well, that's strange, right, left and right. And and so I I don't agree with everything that you, Megan, and and Scott said about Charlie. I'm sure. Right. But but I think that's what makes it more interesting. So the willing that the willingness to talk to us even though we were so entrenched on different sides. Right? And so then when we started the conversation, what wound up happening surprised us. So did we still have our disagreements about the black pilot line, this, that, and other thing? Of course, we do. Right? But when we started talking about corporate rule, he agreed. And I remember like, I wanna go back and watch the first interview we did with him at the RNC there because I was kind of shocked by it. It's like, really? You're also worried about corporations having too much power and and right? Because that Tucker, you can understand. That was a that was a left wing position for a long time in Speaker 0: this country. It was. Speaker 1: But but the battle has been joined. And so that is an incredible development in American politics that mainstream media, I think, has chosen to ignore because it's inconvenient for them. Then we got into a specific topic, which was banning private equity from buying residential real estate. And the idea behind that is private equity is the biggest bankers in the world, basically. They they're the biggest financial institutions, and they've started to buy all of our homes. Now that creates a huge number of problems. Number one, it drives up housing prices. That is why they are artificially high because so much more demand has come into the market. And I I went to Wharton Business School. So this is not complicated, though. This is econ one zero one, supply and demand. Right? And so, secondly, what the number one, wealth creation asset that the American family has is their homes. That is how we created the greatest middle class the world has ever seen, and they're taking that from us. And they're gonna turn us all into renters, and then we're going to be indentured servants to them. Okay? And the way that they are doing this is they are giving collectively billions of dollars to our politicians. So this issue connects actually, the the money in politics issue connects to everything. Connects to corporate rule, compare it connects to capitalism, by the way, which I wanna get back to, connects to Israel because it isn't about Israel or any other particular lobby being evil or dastardly or in charge. It's the money that's in charge. And so if, big pharma, Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, etcetera, give money to our politicians, well, then they pass absurd laws. Like, we're not allowed to negotiate drug prices. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: What in the world? In capitalism, you're not allowed to negotiate prices? Right? I know. So and we talked about that, and he said, you're right. That that is absurd. And we on the right already believe that, that it's absurd and that it's against capitalism. Fantastic. So, look. You're right. We've been around a long time on the young truth. So we were actually the longest running show in Internet history. And in that time, we've had you know, we've been on for twenty three years. We've had about twenty one to twenty two years of hardened battle. Right? Fighting back and forth. Fighting back and forth. Right? And as anybody who's seen me online knows, like, I can get emotional. I can get passionate. Yeah. And I'm not a wilting flower. I fight back for sure. Right? So what was amazing, though, was all of a sudden, I didn't have to fight back. Then on those issues, not every issue and not on all the culture wars, but on these economic issues, we have begun to agree. And why? Because the average guy is getting screwed. Yes. Period. It doesn't matter if you're on the left or the right. You're both gonna get screwed. You're both gonna have higher housing prices. You're both gonna have lower wages. You're both gonna have higher drug prices, and the people that brought you that is the donor class. And so when we agreed to that, then I said, okay. Well, now conversation has become productive. We're not just yelling at each other. For the first time ever, we are talking to one another, and more importantly, we are listening to one another. So we did it again at the DNC, and then Charlie invited me to AmericaFest. And I went there. And, again, we disagreed on gun rights. We disagreed on some trans issues, but we wound up agreeing on Dick Cheney and Mitch McConnell, for example. Yeah. Neither one of us like them. Like, either one of them. Speaker 0: I agree. Speaker 1: And, you know, Tucker, I'll say this. And there's a lot more to to talk about in that context. But if you told me you are going to go to a massive right wing conference in the year 2025, And what's going to happen is the crowd in unison is going to boo Dick Cheney. If you told me that when we first started the Young Turks and we're railing against Dick Cheney, don't go in Iraq. Don't go in Iraq. Cheney's lying. Right? And people are yelling back, support the troops. You're for Saddam and all this stuff. If you told me, oh, don't worry. In twenty seven odd years, that crowd will be booing Dick Cheney, and that crowd will be booing Mitch McConnell because they realize that the corporate class, the donor class is in charge, and they hate it. I would have said, oh my god. That must be a beautiful day in America. Speaker 0: Well, so this is what I admire about you. You're you're totally sincere about your principles. Like, you you almost don't care who's agreeing with you. You believe in the idea, the principle. So you're willing to make common cause with people you don't agree with in everything. You're not partisan. And and the second thing I should just I just wanna say it out loud is that Young Turks, whatever you think of your politics has had a stated commitment to nonviolence from the very beginning, and you mean it. And I just I just wanna say that for people who don't know that, I wanna thank you for that because I think it's really important. And, anyway but so let me ask you, how were you treated at AmFest, at Charlie's event? Speaker 1: Yeah. By the way, thank you for saying that, Tucker, and, the principle of nonviolence extends through everything. So do not be violent to each other. Violence is intellectual surrender. That's saying I can't win the debate with my mind, so I have to act like an animal and try to defeat that person physically, but that means you're surrendering and you're giving up. It is it's the most immoral thing you could do. It's also the weakest thing you could do. Yes. I agree. And but that's on not just on an individual level. That's also on a societal level. So when we go to war, that is in a sense weakness, saying we could not use our minds to resolve this issue. We could not resolve this issue as fellow human beings. So now we're going to kill each other. Yeah. So it that is why we're anti war, and that is why one of the most encouraging developments of my life is how anti war the right wing movement has become. So that another great day in America. So it's still plenty of things we disagree on. But but but agreeing on anti war, agreeing on how the donor class is is robbing both of us blind, and those are huge developments. Right? So now how was I treated at AmFest? I gotta be honest with you. And and so the the reason why I preface it by saying I gotta be honest with you is because sometimes when we go and talk to the right wing and and as you said, we haven't moved on a thing. Right? So folks come to us, and I have a simple principle, take the win. Okay. Speaker 0: Take the win. Exactly. Like, Speaker 1: so okay. Now you agree with me that anti war is the right position. Is my correct answer that I still hate you? No. That is not the correct answer. Right. The correct answer is, oh, thank god. Right? Exactly. Right? And now we'll work on the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. But for now, at least we had no agreements before. Now we have have a number of really important agreements. So but, nevertheless, I had my share of critics on the left. You're you're platforming it. Yeah. I went to his conference. I wasn't platforming him. He was platforming me. Right? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: And and second of all, stop with all the nonsense talk of platforming people. Okay? I agree. Just listen to one another. Talk to one another. That's not a bad thing. That's a good thing. But but what if you disagree? And, of course, you're gonna disagree. It's America. We're free. We have no two human beings are the same. Of course, we're gonna disagree on some issues. So if you can't handle that, then you can't handle politics. You can't handle media. You can't handle America. Right? So okay. So with that giant preface, I'll say, the people there, honestly, were universally wonderful. So they were. And so you could say, oh, well, you know, that means Jenksen with the right wing. No. I'm just telling you what happened. If they were jerks, I would tell you that they were jerks, but they weren't. Okay? And and I've gotta say, like, this cancel culture, it's not exclusively left wing. No. I know. Alright. Speaker 0: Me about it. I mean Yeah. The efforts that some people made to keep me from speaking at the next TPUSA thing, people I agree with on a lot of things, by the way. I don't disagree with Seth Dillon and everything, mister free speech guy trying to cancel me. But I was, like, shocked by it. Like, they really hassled Charlie and just drove him to, you know, to really fret and drove him to anxiety over this. Oh, no. No. No. That impulse is a human impulse, and we need to resist it. Speaker 1: Yeah. So I love what you guys said about hate speech and how it's unacceptable to pass laws on that. Speaker 0: It's not acceptable. Speaker 1: Yeah. Under no circumstances. So and this is what I say on that topic. So Charlie says some things about Islam that, you know, having grown up Muslim, I'm atheist now, but my family is Muslim. My background is Muslim. I'm proud of it. He said some things about Islam that I was not a fan, right, to say the least. Speaker 0: I bet. Speaker 1: So so you know what I did in return? I made my case. So what? Right? Like, what's why is it so, like, debilitating if someone says something that you find offensive? I've said things that I'm sure others have found offensive. You have Charlie has. Megan has. So what? Then you say something back. Okay? We don't cancel. We don't kill, and killing is the most extreme form of cancel culture. So I despise cancel culture, and I have the honor of being having been canceled by almost every part of the political spectrum. I Speaker 0: know. Man, what an that was that was really inspiring, and I'm gonna text back the the person who texted me and said, did you watch that? That was wonderful, and I so appreciate your doing this. Thank you, and I hope you don't take too much abuse for it. And I'm sure you will, but, yeah, I guess you don't care. So good for you. Thank you. Speaker 1: That'll bounce off me so quick. I'll just say this one last thing, Tucker. I mean, the idea of making laws against hate speech in honor of Charlie Kirk. Speaker 0: No. I know. I know. Speaker 1: Okay. That's like if I passed away and they're like, in honor of Cenk, we're all gonna go on a diet. Speaker 0: Tell me about it. Or the Tucker Carlson no pizza law. No. I I agree. I agree. Speaker 1: Come on. That is the opposite of what I did in my life, and and and regulating speech is the opposite of what Charlie did in his life. So let's all keep talking to one another. Let's all keep listening to one another, and hopefully use this moment not to create further tragedy, but to begin to end the tragedies. Speaker 0: Yeah. I'm proud to agree with that, you know, really, really strongly. So thank you for saying it very much.
Saved - September 22, 2025 at 5:25 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

"This Has Never Been Told In Public" - Tucker's Story That Shows How Courageous Charlie Kirk Was https://t.co/abxvgo4GYL

Video Transcript AI Summary
Blake, who worked closely with the speaker at Fox News, was swept up in 'cancel culture' and left the network after Fox denounced him; the speaker refused to denounce Blake. Blake is described as a 'Christian who believes that God created everybody' and 'not a racist,' though he faced unemployment. Charlie Kirk called and offered Blake a job, putting him on air and stating 'I know this man. He is a good man.' This act, the speaker says, was 'the bravest thing' Charlie did, exposing himself to risk and ridicule. The scene illustrates Charlie's evolution into a patient, persuasive figure who uses the Socratic method on campus events, and contrasts it with the sensational 'Charlie destroys the libs' branding. The speakers reflect on the pain of the firing, the attempt to help Blake with health insurance, and the meaning of courage as standing up for truth in service of others.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Okay. So this is a story that, obviously, I was in the middle of it, and I've talked to a lot of people just this week about it. I don't think it's ever been told in public. I'm gonna give the outline and then just turn it over to Blake to correct me or to and to fill in the details. But here's the story. So Blake worked for me at Fox News for years, probably more closely than anybody, like, intimately at Fox. And and I love Blake. And Blake is obviously an unusual person, but just a wonderful person and a really deep decent person. Speaker 1: I mean, it's Speaker 0: true. And obvious yeah. Blake's weird, but like Blake is the best. And people who love Blake really love Blake, and there's a little group of people who, you know, all we all know each other. All talk about Blake. So Blake got caught up right at the height of all this insanity, true insanity called cancel culture, but it was more than that. It was like French Revolution stuff. Someone like, you know, Blake is not Blake is a racist. Well, as I would always say, Blake is actually not a racist. And I would admit it. He's not. He's a Christian who believes that God created everybody. So he's actually not a racist. But Fox overreacted, of course, and he left. And then Fox denounced him. They tried to get me to denounce him. Suzanne Scott tried to make me denounce Blake, and I refused. Something I'm proud of. But whatever. It was it was just awful. It was the saddest moment in the fifteen years that I spent there. And then Blake's unemployed and unemployable. And I get this and I feel terrible and I feel like I've got a moral obligation to help Blake. And but who's gonna hire Blake? Because he's like in the New York Times, he's like a bad person when actually he's a great person. Charlie Kirk calls me. He's like, I'm thinking about hiring Blake. I was like, god bless you, Charlie. What's he like? I said, well, Blake's very eccentric. Like, no kidding. He's the only person who ever lost weight eating junk food. Like, he's a really unusual person. Like, we talk about Blake all day long. But he's a wonderful person, and he's incredibly talented. No one disputes that, and I think you should do it. He does. Charlie and I talk about then Blake and I talk about we're having these, like, conversations behind the scenes about each other. And not only does Charlie hire Blake, he puts us makes me emotional. He puts Blake on the air as if to say, I know this man. He is a good man. You will judge me for doing this. I'm doing it anyway because it's the right thing to do. Then, of course, it becomes this whole thing where Blake is like a true asset to him. But when he first did it, it was like, no. I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do. This is the last thing I'll say before turning over to Blake. I've been in this business my whole life. Nobody does that. Nobody does that. Everyone's like, oh, I'm for free speech or whatever, until it hurts me. At which point, sorry, pal. Good luck. But Charlie pivoted against that in a way that exposed him and his group turning point to ridicule and risk, and he did it anyway. And all week I've been talking to people about this, like, that was acid test. Those of us in this business know how brave that was. It was the bravest thing. Anyway. Sorry, Blake. Speaker 2: I remember talking to you about that because I I actually was weighing another employment option. I was going, as you said, I was like, I joined. Speaker 1: I you maybe were behind that one too. Speaker 0: Yeah. I was. I was desperate to get another option. Speaker 2: And I remember just you know, I won't say what it was for, but we were talking about it. And I think the one that you really pointed out that was really important is like, Blake, I think the most important thing like Charlie is a for real a sincere Christian. Yes. And I think you're going to want to work for someone who is a for real sincere deeply believing Christian. And, you know, because then you'll disagree on a lot of things but you will align on really important things. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 2: I think that was what carried the day with me and I'm very glad it did. And you know, at at the time as you said, there was like at the time I came in, it was he was just a very different person. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 2: And it was over time realizing all the ways that as you say, he's like, you have to really see it. You're is this for real? What is this? Is this going to work? Would also have that where you're like, this can't this can't possibly work. Right? And it does. And it does because he's so completely intently sincere and fully all in on it. And I think that's what like amazed young people like you know when you'd go to these campus events and you know I think there's a lot of you know you'll see these people online who are like very like performatively trad or Christian or whatever because it like owns the libs or whatever. Yeah. Exactly. But Charlie is just like, no no. I I like 100% believe in this. Speaker 1: Like And because I believe it is Speaker 2: true and because it is important and I want everyone else to believe in it because it is true and I think it is the most important decision they will ever make. And it would always shine through in what he was doing and how he behaved that he really believed that. And Speaker 1: Well, and I mean, I think and you know this because you were at some of the campus stops, I was at some of the campus stops. 90% of the interactions as he got older, right, the the the brand of Charlie was almost cemented you know in 2018 where he was much younger and he was like a peer to the kids on college and he would say Charlie Kirk destroys the libs or whatever. And that was just titling. It wasn't actually in Charlie's heart but the Charlie by the way didn't determine the titles. You know, like people Well, Speaker 0: didn't behind want the scenes destroy anybody. Speaker 1: The scenes, that's, you know, that's a social media team that's doing the titling. That wasn't Charlie picking the title, you know. Anyways, but the point is, as he got older, he transitioned to a much more big brother and people started observing like this incredible Herculean patience that he would exhibit on these in these interactions with sometimes bad faith people but sometimes people that just had bad ideas. And 90% if you went and sat there and watched the entire three hour Prove Me Wrong 90% of it is him being kind and gentle and thought provoking and working through whatever was the lie that was stuck in this kid's head or sometimes professors but he would work with them through it and use the Socratic method to draw out the truth and it was a beautiful thing and you know he doesn't get nearly enough credit for that because the Charlie destroys the Libs clip goes mega I viral, couldn't agree with you more. I have Speaker 0: to say when you when all that happened to you, I just cannot say how pain well, you know, because we've talked about many times, but that was like one of those painful things that's ever happened to me Speaker 2: in my Speaker 0: life. Because, you know, we have such a tight staff and and the same staff, like I don't don't have new people working for me really ever And I don't care to. So that was really really painful. Oh, Speaker 1: go ahead. Speaker 0: And I just wanted you to have health insurance. My expectations for you were so low because you had been so mistreated and maligned and slandered. And it's just so hard to come back from that. The fact that he put you on the air Speaker 2: is possibly a mistake. Why? Speaker 0: It was not a mistake, but it was that is so wild. Speaker 1: So I I have an insight into that piece of the story because I was aware of this other job opportunity and I see it now all as like God's plan. And I was working on kind of a panel show idea but I didn't have that it was just like a nugget of an idea, it was back in my head. And I remember kind of just intuiting that in order to like restore this man that had been so wronged by Oliver Darcy or whatever in CNN, these scumbags, I thought, you know Speaker 0: forgive Oliver Darcy. Thank you for reminding me. As we forgive those who trespass against us, he needs to be on my daily rotation. Speaker 1: So but, you know and by the way, I I saw I ended up in that moment in that when we were talking with Blake at the beginning, I looked back at your monologue from that night and maybe it wasn't your monologue, maybe it was the finish final segment but you said I you you really were defiant and it was beautifully done because you were back at you you they you were part of something and only had so much control at that moment, right? And so They were Speaker 0: bullying me. Suzanne Scott got me. I was in the parking lot of a place in I was in Bozeman, Montana fishing and she called me and I went outside to do my pre show bathroom break, always outside if I can do it. And she called me and she said, you need to say what he said was wrong. I said, I'm not doing that. Period. And you can fire me and the show's live in ten minutes. I'm not doing that. And she goes, well, I guess I can't make you. And she until the day she fired me, she never really talked to me after that. Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not trying to get into any of that, but I do believe that Speaker 0: Oh, want to get into it. It was horrible Speaker 1: I'm Speaker 0: what Speaker 1: they did to just saying, I will I don't know where to go. I will say Tucker, this is awkward for me. Speaker 0: Sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no. I Speaker 1: would just say that I think this moment has profoundly changed all of us, including people like Suzanne. And I just want to say briefly for what it's worth, she's been exceedingly know. Wonderful Speaker 0: shouldn't say that. And we all changed and I've done crappy things, a lot of crappy things in my life so I shouldn't Speaker 1: be Yeah. But to your point, your hands were tied in that moment and you defiantly said, I remember you said, I just want everybody to know that you are gloating over a young man's life being ruined and shame on you. You basically you you I'll never forget that and I remember thinking, okay, like if Tucker's got his back in this moment, this guy's pretty great. He's the best. Yeah. And he's been the best and I love having came Speaker 0: out of nowhere, man. I'll never forget that. I'll never forget that as long as I live. But anyway, the point is whatever and I shouldn't even have brought exactly. Speaker 1: And and by the way and now look at this. This show is going on. Erica Kirk has demanded that the show goes on, and we're gonna figure out the details, and Blake is gonna be critical to that. And if we hadn't have created this this roster, this thought crime crew that we do on Thursdays, I don't know what we would do. Speaker 0: But it takes the bravery of an individual to get there. So like everything is fine now and Blake can do whatever he wants and people know who he is because they get to see him and they can make their own judgments about him. But when Charlie made that decision, and he's the one who would have been blamed if it had gone wrong, people didn't know who Blake was apart from what they read in the New York Times. Slander devised by CNN and Oliver Darcy. That's a fact. And and not helped by a lot of other people who I shouldn't be attacking you. Right? Sorry about that. But he's the one who allowed Blake's life to continue. And I just I felt it so strong because I've been I that's my world. Like, I know what that is. And most people are like, well, you know, you can't put him on air. Like, he did bad things. I heard that. And Charlie was like, he was willing to stand up and say, no. That's not true. Like, most people are not gonna do that. No one will do that. And Speaker 1: Well, remember the nasty articles. We there was a few. And Charlie would just write back LOL. Speaker 0: So that's courage. In case you're wondering what courage is, that's actual courage and you know that it is because it's so rare. Nobody does that. If if people do that, who are they? I live in this world. Like I know every single person hosting every single show and they don't do that. And he did that. And so that's what actual courage is. Courage is standing up for what is true in the service of other people, in the service of showing love to other human beings. That's the commission that we get from Jesus. Period. And he actually did that at great risk to himself. And anyway, just I've had like 50 text exchanges, so we can come up. Anyway, bless you Blake for being Oh, Speaker 2: thank you. Speaker 0: At the center of that. Speaker 1: Thanks for standing with us. Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you very much. Speaker 1: Genuinely.
Saved - September 22, 2025 at 5:25 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Tucker’s Hilarious First Encounter With Charlie Kirk https://t.co/qRAV6s81gg

Video Transcript AI Summary
Speaker 1 says he met Charlie when he was a teenager, connected to Foster Freeze, “the wonderful man from Wilmington, Delaware… the only investor I've ever had in anything.” Foster told him Charlie “he's not going to college,” which the speaker, opposed to college, found initially skeptical yet saw him as smart. After a backstage Q&A turned into an intense exchange—“I was gonna give a speech and we have a debate”—they began spending time together; Charlie “never used any drugs in his whole life” and was libertarian on the subject. Their conversations on economics, foreign policy, and marijuana led to mutual re-evaluations; “I was totally wrong about everything” and “the things you thought were gonna work didn't.” Charlie's honesty is celebrated: “Only belief in God allows that” and “admitting the truth about yourself in public is the most edifying and important thing you can ever do.”
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: When did you meet Charlie and tell us about how your relationship with Charlie grew because I think it's fascinating. Speaker 1: So I met Charlie when he was a teenager. He was connected to, funded by, a close friend of ours called Foster Freeze. He 's a wonderful man from Wilmington, Delaware, really from Wisconsin but lived in Wilmington and Jackson, Wyoming and was an investor in a company that we had and more important like an actual friend, really the only investor I've ever had in anything. And in a very enthusiastic Christian man. And the kind of person who's just a collector of people. Know, I met this person who was so enthusiastic and almost everybody around him was just wonderful. But because he was so rich and so generous, he did collect there were phonies in the orbit because there always are when someone's rich. Right? And so he tells me at dinner about this kid he's met. He's only 18. He's not going to college. I've always been opposed to college in my whole life. I try to convince all my kids not to go. I mean, I really meant it. And so he's like, you would love this guy. He's not going to college. And I was like, man, I love that because I really am opposed and I mean it. And I'm like, he sounds great. He's like, and I'm thinking, oh man. Some fast talking kid has and I didn't like it at all. And of course, there's the bias against young people. I mean, Charlie's literally the age of one of my children. So like And I felt it's probably totally conventional telling old people what they want to hear, sucking up to the donors, whatever. So I meet him. I thought he was smart as hell, but I was very skeptical. Then I have this he calls me, would you do an event? Sure. I was going to be in the state anyway, so I do it. And we have this kind of sort of debate, not really a debate. Well, what actually happened was I was gonna give a speech and I got there. We're backstage. He's like, well, actually, let's just do a Q and A. And I was like, I don't know, son. I don't think you wanna do that with me because I'm kind of a jerk. You know, which I am in those settings. Right? So he's like, no no no. I want to. We we can it's okay to have a debate. I was like, I don't know, man. Like, I disagree with your views on economics and foreign policy, and I'm pretty hot on these topics. So I'm just letting you know that. Oh, no problem at all. So we end up having this kind of intense thing, and I'm like passionately opposed to marijuana and drugs. I'm just having used a lot of drugs as a child. Like, I'm very opposed to drugs. Charlie never used any drugs in his whole life, and he was at the time, he was kind of libertarian on the subject. And I remember saying, everyone in the crowd is for weed, like you think you're so cool, but actually it's a control device designed to make you passive and accepting of the system that's destroying you. And people kind of booed me or whatever, but Charlie looked at me like, I think that may be right. And that it was that issue. It was weed of all issues. You know? It's not my top issue, but I do feel it really strongly. I hate marijuana. Okay? And I know it's really cool, but no. It's like fully corporate actually. And it's wrecking Americans, especially boys. Speaker 2: It's wrecking the parking lot of the grocery store nearby. Speaker 1: It makes me feel like getting my gun. Like, I really feel that way about it. Sorry, shouldn't say that. But I really am mad about it. And Charlie got grooved with that. And that moment set off this like conversation. So I was back. I was in Arizona for something. He's like, let's go to lunch. Let's go to dinner. And we started having all these really intense conversations. Start putting him on Fox. And his views were changing. And mine were too, by way. It's not like I converted him. It's like I had been all kinds of embarrassing things during the scope of my long life, a libertarian, a self described neocon. Can you imagine? I mean, I'll I'll admit it. I like got mad at Alex Jones for asking questions about nine eleven. What? Like, I was like a horrible person or very close minded person. I was totally wrong about everything. And so I didn't judge. Like, you should change your mind as the evidence changes. The things you thought were gonna work didn't. An honest man asked himself why they didn't work and what might work. Like, that's the process of adulthood. And Charlie young people are very inflexible about what they believe. I have found I have a lot of young people, I have a lot of children. He was one of only young people I've ever met who was like, oh yeah, I think I was wrong. And only belief in Jesus allows you to say that because you know that you're not judged. You know that honesty is the ticket, and that if you pursue an honest path, you'll be okay. And you don't need the adulation from the crowd. You don't need the love of strangers to feel good about yourself because you know that you are loved. It gives you true freedom. And he had that. Charlie had no problem at all getting up and being like I was at NeoCon. And of course with me he didn't because he knew that I was too. I'm like cheering on the Iraq war, which I did. Like I literally did that. And I'm ashamed of it, but I'm also proud to admit it because I think that it's important to let people know that you can admit being wrong. It's okay. It's alright. We're people. We're not gods. You can be wrong. Speaker 0: I want you to know, Tucker, that that must have gone deep because Blake can attest of all the fringe issues that he knew he was on the unpopular side. He was very, very vehemently against wheat. No way. Oh, he went hard on it. Speaker 2: Yes. No. I just I I think that you really got at it where, you know, one, he was totally unafraid of being in a huge minority on an issue. And being frank about it, you know, people would ask him he'd he'd be like they'd ask him about like abortion. And he'd be like, look, you know, my position on that is a tiny minority in The United States and I'm going to keep trying anyway. And he'd say that on, you know, gay marriage where the polls would say, you know, a big majority support it and all of that. And at the same time, yeah, the zero like, shame about if he had to change his views. You see that so often with politicians. Well, actually, that was a different situation. You know, I voted that way because, you know, it wasn't like that. And he'll just be like, oh, no. I was wrong. I, you know, I hadn't thought about this. Speaker 1: But you can't be controlled. If you will so this is how the media control politicians. They find some clip if the politician is saying something different ten years. Was like, well, it was a different country ten years Speaker 0: ago. He would do that. We would see these clips, you know, these really like they'd be like, look at here's Charlie defending, you know, this issue. And and I would be like, Charlie, they dug up that old clip and he goes, oh, yeah. I was a that was that was back when I was a cuck. Speaker 1: Oh, a 100%. Speaker 0: And, you know But Speaker 1: there's no shame in that. And and Charlie's example of admitting the truth about himself in public is the most edifying and important thing you can ever do because it shows people you can take the leash off and you can live in freedom because you know you're loved. You can tell the truth, we're all going to die anyway. That this is the deepest truth. And your job is to be honest and to be loving to other people. Okay? That's your job. Only belief in God allows that. And once you do it, it's like it's not only fine, it's great. It's actual liberation. Speaker 0: You said that I remember at the first AmFest when you came back. So you had the debate and then you came back Speaker 1: The unplanned debate. Speaker 0: Oh, I remember feeling so honored that you came back. It was our first AmFest and we really needed like somebody of your caliber and your your I'm gonna say it, you won't your fame, your your your the weight that you held in the movement especially, I mean, it it was an honor to us to have you there. Speaker 1: Oh, so excited. Speaker 0: Came out the first night and you and you just said, let me say a few words about Charlie. He's willing to change his mind. He's willing to adapt. And and and I knew that was your subtle nod to people who might have judged you. Maybe you weren't even thinking that but it felt like it was at least saying like, listen, I know some of you think Charlie's a certain way, let me tell you. From that 2017 or whatever '18 debate to now, think it was 2021, like a couple years had gone by since we'd had you back And and then we've you know, you've been back ever since. Speaker 1: But it was it's it's so important. I just can't say it enough to be honest about yourself. It's very easy to be honest about everybody else. Oh, you're fat. I don't like your dress. Like, that's super easy. It's very hard to be honest about yourself. Like I'm fat. I'm wearing an ugly dress. Like no one wants to admit that. But once you do, you the fetters are off and you are so free. And Charlie just lived that. I feel like that's almost one of the most important things is to admit the truth about yourself and then no one can control you. What can you say about me that I won't readily concede about myself? Like nothing. And then what are you gonna do to me? You know, nothing. Oh, it's it's amazing.
Saved - September 22, 2025 at 5:25 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Tucker on the Investigation Into Charlie Kirk’s Murder and What We Should Truly Focus On https://t.co/00pq4U9jqq

Video Transcript AI Summary
Speaker calls for a fair, impartial, well explained investigation to uphold the rule of law in the United States, noting it's fair to ask sincere questions. He argues the big picture is 'the fight of evil against good' and that 'his murder was an attempt to extinguish the light. Period.' He urges a transparent civil process while maintaining focus on the larger message: 'light versus dark' and the presence of God amid evil. The discussion then includes James Lindsay’s text with Charlie: 'communism is by far the best evidence in support of Satan's existence.' Charlie replies, 'a 100%.' and, 'If there is a Satan, then there is a god.' They remember 'Charlie was willing to give the very last measure of his effort in his life,' the belief that tragedy reveals God’s presence, and that 'the saving of many lives' occurs through faith and prayer, not rioting.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: You know, they've been referent I know that a lot of stuff going on online, I've checked out. Actually, just wanna say that because it's too upsetting to me. I know it's extremely upsetting for you guys since you're way more in the middle of it than I am. But I obviously you need a fair, impartial, well explained investigation that assures everyone the rule of law lives in The United States. I think it's essential and I hope that we get it. I think we're going have to push for it. We should push for it. But as to what happened, again, totally fair in my view to ask sincere questions. But I think it's important to remember the big picture which is whatever happened, it was a species of the same phenomenon which was the fight of evil against good. And his murder was an attempt to extinguish the light. Period. And it it didn't work. Like that's the main thing to know. There are lots of things I I wanna know. And again, we have a civil system that has to go through a process in order for this government to continue or any government that has to be transparent and motivated by good faith and it has to try to affect justice. That's a key. And I don't think we should blow past it. However, again, big picture, this is light versus dark. And you feel the darkness all around us. It comes in many different forms and many different guises. These are disguises. Okay? But what it really is, is the age old, you know, it's the Lord of the Earth. It's Satan. Sorry to say that it is. Deliver us from the evil one, I think is the actual translation in the Lord's And the evil one is all around us. But Charlie's murder is a reminder that we are surrounded by God and God's protection and God's love. And that is so obvious. The light has not only not been extinguished, it's glowing brighter. I hate like dumb metaphors like that except this one is totally real. And so we should I speak for myself. I'm going to focus on that. I'm going to focus on the big picture while demanding a precise accounting that is legitimate. But I'm not going to get so caught up in that stuff that I miss the true message, which is forces of darkness tried to extinguish the light and not only did they fail, their effort was counterproductive. That is the truth. Speaker 1: Frank, that was I was just sorry. I got I I was in sort of wrapped by what you were saying. Speaker 0: Sorry. I felt that. I felt it coming up. I couldn't keep it down. Speaker 1: It was beautiful. Was looking for somebody else to respond here quickly. Speaker 2: Let me mention something related to that. You know, our mutual friend James Lindsay had a text exchange with Charlie. In fact, he sent it to me the other night because I was speaking at a university here in North Carolina on Wednesday night about Charlie and I related this story. And let me just let me just read you what James sent to, Charlie and what Charlie sent back. Very astute response by Charlie. James said, and this is 08/24/2023, communism is by far the best evidence in support of Satan's existence. Charlie writes back, a 100%. And then the next text, he writes back, if there is a Satan, then there is a god. And James writes back, that would follow. So evil actually shows that God does exist, not that he doesn't, because there'd be no such thing as evil unless there was good, and there'd be no such thing as good unless God existed. Because in any objective sense, the only way you can define good is God's nature. Otherwise, everything's a matter of opinion. You couldn't say murder was really objectively wrong unless there's a standard of objectively right that we're all obligated to obey, and what we mean by that is God's nature. As Tucker pointed out earlier, our founders understood that. We hold these truths to be self evident that all men were created and endowed by their government. No. It didn't say that. Endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. So if evil exists and it all we all know it does, we saw it eight days ago, then God exists. Speaker 0: Well, and that is honestly the way that a lot of us were convinced of the reality of God was by being forced to acknowledge the reality of evil. I can say that for myself. My wife, who's like the person who keeps our family text chain grounded in the truth, sent a verse this morning that basically said that exact thing, and there are a number of them throughout both Old and New Testaments, as you know better than I, but that say that God will use evil for his purposes and that he will reveal himself through through sadness as well as joy. And Mhmm. That is practically true. It's not even a theoretical concept, it's a living concept for those of us who concluded just on the basis of the evidence that these were not political differences actually. These were not political phenomenon. These were a bunch of different things. I won't get specific, but you know what I'm talking about. This is the face of evil. And that brought us to the reality of God. It's like wild. That actually happened. It happened to me. Speaker 1: I want everybody to know, and I know Blake, you've been contemplating this too, but Charlie was willing to give the very last measure of his effort in his life. He really was and he said it multiple times and I think the first time he said it on stage he you know it wasn't something that was planned it came out of him naturally and Erica heard it and Erica was like, Be careful when you say that. Please don't And you that's really powerful but he said it again and again. He said it on a Lance Wallnow show I remember one time saying like, you know, I mean and he was very aware of the story of Steven, he was very well aware of the prophets and he was very well aware that people were want that wanted to hurt him and it never stopped him and I think we need to remember that. When we think about evil and we think about because death, where is your victory? Oh, death, where is your sting? It's the last thing that, you know, it's like you said, they tried, they meant it for evil, but the Lord is taking it and He's turning it to good and for the saving of many lives. And I always was caught by that wording in the Scriptures, the saving of many lives. Obviously, he's talking about the Israelites in that instance, but it as we contemplate it for our own moment, the saving of many lives, you know, I think about all these baptisms and all these reports of the churches being overflowing and across the country and these we didn't riot Tucker, we didn't burn businesses, we didn't tear down windows and doors, we prayed. And that is the biggest, most amazing testament to the character of Charlie Kirk. Speaker 0: But it's also of or it has been my experience anyway, I'm not a theologian, but I just will say that the I've had many moments especially in the last ten years where, boy, you can feel it around you, like for real. You can feel the menace, can feel the hate, you can feel the threat. Comes out of nowhere. I've had a couple pretty intense experiences with it, very intense. And they are followed invariably by the peace of God, by the Holy Spirit. And you know that God is using this moment for your benefit, your edification, and your joy. That is true, that out of tragedy And it's such a cliche and it's such a kind of syrupy, hallmark, false assurance on the surface that I hesitate even to say it, but I've just lived it so much. I've lived it so much. That is absolutely how God has communicated with me in my life like directly, is by contrasting his presence with the evil that you feel around you. And so it is in a weird way in the middle of tragedy like a true blessing. And if you see a loved one, you know, we all go through this as we age, I've been through it a lot recently where someone you really really love dies. And then you're just filled with this sense of the presence of God that's absolutely real. It's not you're not manufacturing it. It's not like a immune response or something. It's like a presence from outside coming into you. And and I think the whole country feels it, or the people who are alive to it feel it now strongly.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:21 AM

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Can Europe be saved, or is it too far gone? Will this massive shift spark global unrest? We explore these themes and more in our conversation with Chris Caldwell, who has been writing about the Great Replacement for decades. Take a look: https://t.co/ag5sxFVuYu

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

The great replacement isn’t a theory, much less a conspiracy. It’s measurable, physical reality that has changed the West more profoundly than any war. Christopher Caldwell has been writing about it for 25 years. (0:00) Are White, Christian, English-Speaking Countries Under Attack? (7:20) Can the Immigration Crisis Be Fixed? (13:37) How WWII Broke the Minds of Europe and Led to Today’s Immigration Crisis (18:59) Can Europe Recover? (24:02) The Radicalization of Politics (26:13) Will Germany Ever Be Free? (32:31) The Key Problem Within Germany’s Political System (37:42) Will We See Revolutions Around the World? (41:55) Will There Ever Be Another Donald Trump? (55:13) How the Civil Rights Act Was Used to Secretly Undercut the American Constitution (1:02:05) Is “Political Correctness” Finally Dead? (1:11:14) Is the Democrat Party Becoming More Radical? (1:12:02) The Link Between Economics and Immigration (1:22:53) How Immigration Killed the Middle Class and Made the Rich Richer (1:30:05) Why USAID Pushed Foreign Countries to Take in Tons of Immigrants (1:32:08) Is There Hope for the United States? Includes Paid Partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
Discussion focuses on mass migration and its political economy in democracies. In the UK, immigration accelerated after Brexit: about 4,500,000 immigrants between 2021 and 2024, 7% of the population, with 80% outside Europe. Brexit promised to limit immigration but ended up loosening it for economic reasons, destabilizing politics, with calls to exit the European Convention on Human Rights and the UN refugee treaty. The guests compare immigration’s effects elsewhere: in the US, a settler situation allowed growth; in Europe, it's more like seventeenth-century North America, with newcomers becoming a core population. Germany’s AfD rising; debate over banning parties under its constitution; immigration policy evolution after 2015; Japan’s more closed approach, debt, and cultural continuity. The conversation also covers American civil rights tools, affirmative action, and ‘state of emergency liberalism,’ Trump’s reversals, and the potential for economic-reform cycles akin to the New Deal. They end cautiously optimistic about the US.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: So you travel more than anybody I know. You spend more days out of the country and have for more years than literally anyone I know. So answer this question. The countries that seem to be moving backward the most quickly, this is my perception, are the white Christian English speaking countries, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, UK, United States. Am I imagining that? What is that? Speaker 1: Well, I know. I I don't I can't really speak about the countries of what they used to call the the old commonwealth, the, you know, Australia and New Zealand. I've never I've never been to those places. But I I I certainly think that England The UK more generally, but but England in particular, is really in a difficult position now. And and I I I think that the diagnosis that that English people generally are coming to is that they've had that they've had too much immigration. Speaker 0: It seems like they've been overwhelmed by immigration, but you may have a better handle on the numbers. How much immigration has The Speaker 1: UK had ish? Well, I think that they're up around you know, the the the country is the country well, most recent the country's had a lot of immigration since, you know, since the second World War. It it had some moments of acceleration. It they had a huge wave of migrants from both the The Caribbean and the Indian Subcontinent in the years right after the war, and by a huge wave, you know, one you know, it's a it's a couple 100,000. But more recently, we've had even larger numbers, and in fact, one of the one of the things that made has made Brexit so contentious in England is that the big promise of Brexit, the primary promise of Brexit, was to limit immigration. That's what most English people thought it was for. Now Brexit was delayed between the referendum and and 2020, and when when Britain finally got Brexit, it had COVID, and so it had a period of zero immigration for a while. But then something really interesting happened, which is the the people who had managed to get Brexit, that is the the government of of of Boris Johnson, sort of looked at the numbers, and they were very frightened that that the economy was going to continue slow after after COVID. And due to the way the British government scores economic predictions, Immigration comes out as, by definition, a benefit to the economy. So they seriously. So they Like like in California. Yes. So they decided they decided to just loosen immigration for a little bit, and the result was really extraordinary. They got, I think, 4,500,000 immigrants between 2021 and 2024. 4,500,000? Yes. And so we're talking about in in three years, we're talking about an immigration that is 7% of the of the country's population. And that immigration, because the European because Britain had left the European Union, was not European immigration. It was 80% of it came from outside of Europe. So it was a profoundly foreign immigration and the largest Britain it ever had, and it was brought about by the very people whose entire reason for being in government was to stop immigration, and it's had an an extremely destabilizing effect on the on the politics of the country. Speaker 0: So they according to the way British economists score the economy, more people almost always from poor countries make you richer or something? Speaker 1: Yes. I mean, it it it's sort of like it adds it adds a certain amount of units of labor in the country. Is that many units of labor richer? And there's not really a sufficient without going into the economic details, there's not sufficient reckoning done of the fact that these people will age, they'll form families, and they they will collect the generous and perhaps overly generous state benefits that they've been brought in to to, you know, to help defray. Speaker 0: Yeah. I mean, is there in the history of the world a country that's had, like, that level of immigration from poor countries that got richer because of it? Speaker 1: The United States. And and it but it's a very special case because we were, you know, we were we had laid claim to a, you know, a continent wide landmass, although we didn't always do that explicitly, and we had only a very few millions of people with which to claim it. And so we really needed people, and they generally came from societies that were or let's say they came from they might have come from societies that were richer than ours, but they came from the less fortunate parts of those societies. So I think it did enhance The United States while we had, you know, a more or less virgin territory. I understand that the Indians were there, but a lot of the territory was virgin and ripe for for development. As long as we were in that position, it was a benefit to us. The mistake that other countries in the world have made and Europe more than anyone has been to assume that if they get mass immigration, it's going to work the way it did under the very special circumstances of nineteenth century North America. But instead, what's happening is it's it's working more like the circumstances of seventeenth century North America. That is the the people who are arriving from abroad are becoming the the core group in in They're the indigenous population. That seems to be what's happening. Not everywhere, but in in a lot of places. Speaker 0: But in Speaker 1: Great Britain. If you go to London, you it's it's incontestable. Speaker 0: Well, it's overwhelmingly it's like 70% non British. Right? Speaker 1: In England. That's right. That's right. Speaker 0: So what I mean, can that be changed, fixed, reversed? Speaker 1: That's what the discussion in England is about now, and that's why the politics on the English right is so you know, it's it's so fractured. It's it's fractured, but it's actually very interesting. A lot of you know, there's a lot of sort of, like, new ideas sort of popping up out of desperation. You know? Like what? They're mostly of they're mostly ones that you would recognize from, you know, the Trump campaign. They have lot of them have to do with deportation. You know? There are there's a lot of discussion of withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights and from the UN refugee treaty from the nineteen fifties. The the UN has a refugee convention from the the nineteen fifties that governs a lot of rights of asylum, and the Tony Blair government in the late nineties and the early part of this century passed something called the Human Rights Act, which made which made European human rights law and the authority of the European Convention of Human Rights binding on The UK. So there is talk about about exiting those agreements, and and to not just talk. I mean, this is the sort of thing that that that whenever it's brought up in a Western country, it's described as extreme right wing and fascist and and and and that kind of thing. It's not just being talked about in England. It's being talked about by, I would say, the three main forces on the English right, which are Nigel Farage, who's in the reform party, Kemi Badanok, who is the leader of the of the conservative party, and Robert Jenrich, who's the main sort of, like, radical let's let's just say the conservative alternative within the conservative party. All of them are talking about getting Britain out of the European Convention of Human Rights to to the extent where you you think if there is ever a conservative government again, it will happen. I mean, it's no it's no less believable than Brexit was before Brexit happened. Speaker 0: You probably heard about Eight Sleep. Lots of people are talking about it. It is a company with one mission, improving your sleep, And it's changing the way people do that, the way they get a good night's rest. We just got word that their team is launching a new product. It's called the Pod five. 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We think you'll love it, but you can if you want. 8sleep.com/tucker. But that's still I mean, that's pretty tepid really, like pulling I mean, the country's been pretty much the same for a thousand years. I mean, you can go to Stonehenge, pull up bone fragments, and trace the DNA to people living in Britain. So it I mean, for all history that we know of, it's been pretty much the same. People with something in the French came a thousand years ago or whatever, but Speaker 1: there Speaker 0: have been some changes. But in general, they're the indigenous population, and now in eighty years, they've been, Speaker 1: like, overthrown, replaced. It's extraordinary. This is an extraordinary anthropological moment. It's like Speaker 0: I've never heard of anything like that happening. Speaker 1: Well, there were these the there were have been a couple of examples of, you know, what the German paleo historians call, you know, you know, movements of peoples, you know, where, you know, people move off the steps in Asia Exactly. And and into Western Europe, and then they you know, that's how we got our independent sorry, our Indo European languages. Yes. And, you know, there's movements down through Greece and onto, you know you know, the Minoan area. I don't I don't know exactly when it was, about a thousand or 2,000 BC. Speaker 0: And the Fins have kind of Asiatic eyes. You know? Speaker 1: I I don't you know, I I don't know what happened when, but occasionally, there are these huge movements of population. This one's a little bit different because it's enabled by technology. So it's not contiguous peoples sort of, like, pushing against one another. I mean, it's sort of people who are brought by boat and by and by airplane. But in terms of its its importance, yeah, it's a it's a major Speaker 0: I guess what I'm saying is the reason it's unprecedented, I mean, Genghis Khan, you know, rolled over and impregnated thousands of people, but I don't think those people's leaders asked him to come and impregnate their wives. This is like the only invasion I've ever seen that was been bitten by the leaders of the countries that have been invaded, like, come and invade us. Speaker 1: It's not like they were begging for it, but they they say they sort of created a climate of permissiveness, you know, that which people took advantage of. And and it's the I think I think what you're getting at is what was the psychological state of Europeans between 1945 when they started doing this Yes. And and today that made this possible? Speaker 0: The question, and I don't understand it. Speaker 1: And it's a funny thing because you and I have lived through the deepest part of that trans transformation, and it's still kind of a mystery to us. So if anyone's watching this a hundred years from now, they, you know, they they you know, I hope they they can see how confused we, in fact, were. But, I mean, I think that in the wake of World War two, something happened in the middle of the twentieth century, and it's really tough to say what it was. It might be a coming to, you know, to consciousness of you know, after the horrors of the two world wars. It's like you don't want to you know, this is maybe too moralistic an explanation, but, you know, people began to understand that there were bad things could happen if you were too judgmental about other peoples or Yes. Or or or inimical. But there are other factors such as just the technological factors, the the sort of the visibility of alternative pay places to live through television. And that I think is I think it's I think the technological aurism, you know, and oh, and the fact of the fact of easy travel through airplanes and the fact that you that the telephone, the television, and finally, the Internet enable you to go someplace without being cut off from your ancestral homeland. So it makes the decision to travel abroad much lower stakes. You know? I mean, the people who came to The United States in the nineteenth century from Sicily, they were gone. They got on, you know, Speaker 0: for the most saw their people again. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, in fact, in the Italian migration, a lot of them did go back, but it was a in generally in general, it was a big decision. In in in in in the case of the Irish, I think they were usually here for for good. Anyhow, I I think it's a combination of, you know, at the statesman at the level of statesman, I think it's a discomfort with any kind of expression of hostility or lack of hospitality towards other peoples. But at the just the operational level of the individual migrants, I think technology had a lot had a lot to Speaker 0: do with it. It's impossible. But, I mean, yeah, technology for sure. But, you know, I don't know. Victorian England had, you know, the ability to move people around the world to control, you know, the world's biggest navy and all that, and it would have been unimaginable. They didn't want millions of non English living in England because they were proud of England, and they thought it was distinctly English. They thought I guess what I'm getting at is it's so strange to me that the self confidence of Western Europe collapsed after winning the war. I think that's so Germany is a different case. But, I mean, Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, I mean, these are all countries that, like, had nothing to be ashamed of from my perspective. Certainly, England and France. Why did they lose confidence in themselves after winning? Speaker 1: Oh, that's a that's a sort of complex question. I'm not sure I agree that these countries had I mean, they were all in they were all in very different positions. I mean, Germany, Austria, and Italy were the defeated powers and the malefactors in the war. Right. France had collaborated part of France had collaborated, and there was a tremendous amount of soul searching, and there was a tremendous amount of guilt. Spain and Portugal had kind of resolved their own civil war in the nineteen thirties, and they were kind of out of the picture. It would seem that Britain had a record that it could really be proud of, but it was dismantling an empire. And, so the two main victorious non the, you know, the the main victorious powers were The United States, Britain, and Russia. Russia was communist and had its own project to propagandize, but The United States and and and Britain, they also had reasons for self examination. There was, you know, there I I think there was plenty of triumphalism after the the second world war. It's a very it's a very tough thing to read. I think that the America I grew up in was really quite proud of its its role in the second world war. Speaker 0: I remember. Speaker 1: Even as it was reexamining its own history, you know, of racism and slavery and and and and and even the, you know, the settlement and the and the wipeout of of the Indians. You know? So it was a mix of it was a mix of impulses. So I'm not sure that they were I'm not sure these countries were were as self doubting as we as we think. Speaker 0: Well, the effect was to just collapse, I mean, especially in the case of The UK. So is there any getting back to what it was even thirty five, forty years ago? Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. I heard a member of the reform party saying that what people what people really long for in England is a return to the status quo anti Tony Blair. That is, you know, Britain had a lot of of migration. There was one wave in the forties and fifties. There was another one that kind of coincided with our the beginnings of our latest wave, which has never which has gone on unabated, but they had a wave in the seventies and eighties that British did. But the but the the biggest one was just was intentionally started by Tony Blair. And the so the reform this one member of the reform party says, if we could just go back to the status quo anti Blair, that would be fine. That was only thirty years ago. But in fact, the amount of change has been so tremendous, and it's not just that the numerator of migration has changed. It's also that the denominator of the of the total population of Britain has changed. That is Britain is a very, very slow growing demographic, so they're not really producing a lot of new children, and so the a disproportionately large amount of the of the British people in years to come are going to be the product of of immigration. So, no, I don't see any any in general, there's no way sort of, like, cataclysmic developments to to to reverse any of that. Speaker 0: We're sorry to say it, but this is not a very safe country. Walk through Oakland or Philadelphia. Yeah. Good luck. So most people, when they think about this, wanna carry a firearm, and a lot of us do. The problem is there can be massive consequences for that. Ask Kyle Rittenhouse. Kyle Rittenhouse got off in the end, but he was innocent from the first moment. It was obvious on on video, and he was facing life in prison anyway. That's what the anti gun movement will do. They'll throw you in prison for defending yourself with a firearm, and that's why a lot of Americans are turning to Berna. It's a proudly American company. Berna makes self defense launchers that hundreds of law enforcement departments trust. They've sold over 600,000 pistols, mostly to private citizens who refuse to be empty handed. These pistols, and I have one, fire rock hard kinetic rounds or tear gas rounds and pepper projectiles, and they stop a threat from up to 60 feet away. There are no background checks. There are no waiting periods. Berna can ship it directly to your door. You can't be arrested for defending yourself with a Berna pistol. Visit Berna, b y r n a, dot com or your local sportsman's warehouse to get your stay. Berna.com. So it just kinda goes extinct. I mean, the because there's no way that those two cultures can live and share power. I mean, one that doesn't that's never happened in history. A cult one culture dominates in the end. You have a culture. Speaker 1: It depends on how separate they remain. I mean, let's look at the at the at the history of the settlement of North America. I mean, the the British, particularly if you talk to Spanish historians and and Spanish observers of this, were notoriously insistent on remaining separate in the in the lands they they conquered, and and they did and they did dominate. In some in some places, they were able to settle these these areas. In other places like India, they were sent home, you know, after a long period of exploiting the place, but there were other there were other nationalities that tended to colonize by by mixing more. And so there is a there is a sort of a a mix of cultures becomes possible. The cultures that mixed into what we now think of as, you know, different Latin American cultures were earlier on quite separate. There still is a degree of separation in South America between these different strains of, like, the European culture and the the the native culture of but, I mean, in in in most of Latin America, you can say that there's such a thing as Brazilian culture. There's such a thing as Sure. As Mexican culture, and there will be, you know, I trust such a thing as English culture in, you know, in fifty or a hundred years, but it will be a very different thing than the English culture that we recognize over the last five hundred years. It would so it is a rupture. You're right. Speaker 0: What happens to the I mean, at some point, do the politics get radical? Speaker 1: Well, that I think is the because it Speaker 0: makes me feel radical hearing Speaker 1: about Well, that I think is what's happening in England now, and it's one of the reasons I went to England, and it's why I I think it's really it bears watching in in the next few years. They had a they had a huge they had a lot of riots last summer. I mean, there was an episode in which, you know, the the British born child of Rwandan immigrants who sounds like he was kind of a crazy man, went to a to a Taylor Swift dance party that was being held for a bunch of, you know, little girls, and he stabbed a dozen of them and and killed three of them, and the and and the town in which he did it just blew up. And the and and and and the protests spread across the country, and you had, like, a wave of really quite spontaneous public uprising, and that was last that was about just about a year ago in August. The government, which had just entered office, the the Starmer, the government of Keir Starmer, the Labour government, chose not to view it as a spontaneous uprising. They described it as the, you know, a reaction to misinformation and that sort of thing. That did not convince the the public very much though, and I think it contributed to the, in general, low popularity the government has enjoyed since then. It's a strange just as an aside, it's a very strange situation in Britain where they they have a lands the this labor government has a landslide majority, although they've won only a third of the votes. So that in itself is very stabilizing, but I think the events that we've just been let's see. The the developments we've just been discussing have made have contributed to make to make Britain susceptible to radicalization. Speaker 0: What about Germany? I mean, Germany has also been completely transformed by immigration, but that's a society with less free even than Britain, and people can't even say it out loud. They've been taught to hate themselves and to keep that stuff inside, but you wonder at some point, did Germans say, you know, just had enough? And Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's I think it's it's worth it's worth remembering that, you know, that we had a lot to do with that, you know, German culture of of denazification and and sort of, let's say, German, the the critical German approach that that they take to their past. And and so Germany was not Germany has never been a real free speech society. It's not a it's not a a value that is held to quite the high degree that we hold it in our first amendment. Yes. Very in fact, no other culture on earth really has that absolutist idea of free speech that we treasure, I think rightly. But so working with that German culture, which is not a pure free speech culture, I think that we reasoned, you know, The United States, partly because of the circumstances of the Cold War, wanted to reintroduce Germany into the family of citizen of civilized nations very fast. I mean, we were talking about rearming them in the nineteen fifties. You know? We were talking about creating building a European army around Germany in in, like, 1955. It was as an alternative to that that the European Union was created because that prospect really freaked the French out. Okay? But at any rate, The United States really wanted Germany to be re in in introduced to the West, and and to do that, a certain number of ground rules had to be laid down. You know what I mean? Like, you couldn't buy a you couldn't buy a copy of Mein Kampf. You couldn't you eventually, you you couldn't join a communist party. You know what I mean? There's so, yeah, Germany had Germany's Germany's free speech was was a little constrained. You know? It might have been constrained anyway, but it also had this highly critical idea of of of of German history. And, again, it's understandable, but there's a lot of great stuff in German history too. I mean, the reformation comes out of Germany. Germany was the most cultured country in the world with the, you know, with the arguable exception of of Britain at the end of the nineteenth and the beginning of the twentieth century, and it's it's I I mean, I don't have to go through the through the list. It was only a matter of time before Germans said, well, like, can't we talk about the good things in our in our culture too? I thought that that moment actually was coming around the time of the Iraq war, and I think that that was a to a to a, you know, Gerhard Schroder I mean, at the time, it was fashionable to blame France for the European opposition of to the American adventure in Iraq in which in which, you know, Europe has been spectacularly vindicated, I think. Yes. But in fact, I think it was Germany as much as France that was that was driving that, you know, rebellion, and it was Gerhard Schroeder who said, who is then the chancellor of Germany. He said the, you know, the foreign policy of Germany is gonna be made in Berlin and only in Berlin. I thought that that was happening then. At any rate, for a long time, people really lacked the institutions through which to express that German you know, I I wouldn't even call it pride. It's just the it's the desire that it's partly pride, but it's just the desire that German Germany be treated like a normal country again. You know? And I think now eighty years after the war that eighty years after the war and confronted by certain problems that actually require a certain amount of national pride to address, I mean, the the Germans are beginning to talk that way again. They're beginning to say, you know, we need to be Germans again. Speaker 0: So the people trying to wreck our civilization want you to be passive. They want you weak so they can control you. Weakness is their goal. No. Thanks. 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Use the code Tucker for up to 30% off. It's built on core values, integrity, results, no BS, beam. We strongly recommend it. It's interesting that AFD, the alternative for Germany, is treated like an outlaw party by the courts in Germany, and yet it's growing in popularity. I was just reading in the largest German state, members of the party were banned from owning guns because Speaker 1: they Really? Were courted that in on the North Rhine Westphalia? Yeah. Speaker 0: Can that continue? Speaker 1: Well, this is a big this is a big drama. Yes. It can continue. It's, you know, it's it's an interesting situation. I mean, the German the German I'm not sure where in the Grund Gazette it is in the basic German basic law, but but the German the German constitution permits something called the office for the protection of the constitution to monitor parties to make sure that they're not dangerous right wing extremist parties, and the goal of having that in the constitution was to prevent any recrudescence of of Nazism. Now there are parties all across Europe that had certain antecedents whether in the institution itself or in certain just personnel, you know, the way for the the way, for example, Mussolini's fascist party was ended at the end of of World War two, but a lot of its members went and they joined the MSI, the Italian social movement, and that sort of continued after the second World War, and then there was there there were offshoots of it. Many of the people in it became left wing. Georgia Maloney started a new party, but it had some people who were in the MSI. So if you want to trace a genealogy from to, you know, from mid twentieth century fascism to certain European leaders, you can, and and and people do that as a way of sort of gaining talking points against Maloney. Speaker 0: They do it. Speaker 1: Yeah. However, the interesting thing about about the AFD, though, is that the AFD is not one of those parties. The AFD was founded in 2013 by a bunch of academic macroeconomists who were worried that the European Union, by guaranteeing the the debts of Greece and other failing countries, was in an invisible way taxing Germany. So it was it was it was built around a very recondite complaint. You know? Yeah. And not a hate filled complaint. And I I remember interviewing the head of the party at the time who was an economist named Bernd Looker, and he was just a very nerdy guy. He's left I think he's left the party since, but the party underwent two transformations. The first came in 2015 when Angela Merkel invited immigrants, you know, from fleeing this the Syrian civil war to come to Germany, and they began streaming overland into Europe and were then joined opportunistically, as you may remember, by a lot of Pakistanis and Iraqis and Iranians and Afghans and just a whole huge human wave. And a woman in the party, a very charismatic sort of like mother of many children named named Frauka Petri said, you know what? We are the alternative for Germany. No no party is argue arguing for an alternative immigration policy, and that has to be us. And so it became the the anti immigration party. But at the same time, it had it had for similar but less noticeable reasons, it had attracted people who wanted a change in Germany for all sorts of things, including, you know, what we would call culture warriors, people who wanted to change the school curriculum to so that it denigrated Germany less. And then it became a whole big grab bag of parties of of tendencies, which it is today. Although they are a much more united party than I think a lot of people think, and they're now you know, they're they're they they get 20% in the last election, and between elections, they tend to poll much higher. So they're a serious party. They have, at at times, in the last in the last few months since the elections in January, I believe, they have been the largest party in in Germany in terms of opinion polling. Speaker 0: So if the if you have a country that calls itself advertises itself a democracy, a country, you know, run by the people who live there, and over time, the establishment excludes parties that represent the majority of the people, then don't you get a revolution at a certain point? Speaker 1: Maybe I you know, I think I got a little off track. There's one piece I forgot to to explain. So so there is the there exists in the German constitution this idea of of banning parties. Yes. And it's I think that then when people understood it, it was something that was supposed to be done in, 1948 whenever, like, a gang of people, you know, got together in one city, and that's why, like, there have been parties banned since the second world war, not in a very long time, and they tend to be tended to be, you know, tiny little groups of what we would call jackbooted thugs. The idea that that this mechanism could be used to ban the largest party in the country, and and furthermore, one that was founded one that was founded two generations after the second World War in 2013 is not what the constitution envisioned. Nonetheless, you can see the appeal of it for two formerly big national parties that are now shriveling up and want to get those votes back or want to keep from being swept away. You know? Speaker 0: Well, of course, I can. It's just such a violation of the core principle of a democracy that I just don't think you you know, either you have to change the name of the system. It's just, you know, it's an autocracy run by people with power and everyone else shuts up, or you have to stop doing that. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I mean, you well, you have, you know, you have you've interviewed Callan Georgescu on this Yeah. On this show. If you look at what happened in in Romania and the elections last, you know, last November where he was simply disqualified because someone in the government asserted without presenting proof that that there had been a Russian campaign to to elect him, and and and and managed to head off the next you know, his replacement in the second round of that election, which was delayed for many months and got a member of the establishment into into the Romanian government. It didn't really work like like a like a democracy, and yet when it happened, people said, well, we've defended democracy. We've defended democracy against the voters. So it's this sort of kinda it's the kind of thing that that Berthold Brecht would would make a joke about. Right. And and, yes, it's not small d democratic, but people have chosen to call this this form of government, which is you might call it, like, state of emergency liberalism, which is basically the, I think, the most accurate description of what it is. It's a great description. For they they they they claim they claim the term democracy, but I don't think they're doing so very successfully. And the the parties that that that that that represent this state of emergency liberalism do not do terribly well. Speaker 0: It just seems like the spread between what people want and what they're getting grows wider every year. People seem to hate mass migration everywhere in the world. I don't think there's a single person who likes mass migration really, and you can tell by their behavior. Certainly true in this country. I think people have an expectation of sovereignty, which almost no country has. Like, a country gets to make its own decisions, but that's not in practice happening anywhere with only, a few exceptions. And so there's so much frustration about that that I just I'm wondering what's the point where it bubbles up into something unmanageable. Speaker 1: Well, a couple of things. I don't I'm not sure that the I I think that the gap between what people want and what they're getting is is wide is wide, but I'm not sure that it's widening. I mean, the the election of Trump was certainly a Yes. Was certainly a call for more action against mass migration. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And since he's been elected, the border has been pretty much closed. There have been deportations. There have been, you know, certainly the rhetorical stance of the of the administration is against migration. I mean, Trump may disappoint his votes voters on other things, but on that one thing, which I think we agree is, like, a really central issue, actually, the the will of the the the people and the actions of the government have kind of converged. I agree with that. If the if there were to be, as I've just described, a conservative government in England and the and it abolished the the Human Rights Act, which would allow Britain to act in a fully sovereign way, then the way would be wide open to deporting people who did not have the right to be there and certainly to stopping the ongoing traffic of of small small boat migration in England. So I think that that's I think it is I I I think I think it's possible things are getting better from a democratic point of view. You also said, okay. So at what point does this explode? I'm not sure it does because one of the things that makes things explode is the is the is discontent in in numerous and dynamic classes, and that's why, you know, the the Arab world was so unruly throughout the the nineteen eighties and the nineteen nineties because you had this was a a part of the world in which people were having, like, six or eight or 10 kids, and there was no place to put these young men, and there was a lot of there was a lot of martial dynamism in the in these societies. And when in fact, wherever you have a lot of young people, if you look at The United States in the in the sixties and seventies, you have a lot of disorder and rebellion, but we're not societies like that anymore. We are top heavy societies full of old wobbly people, and and and not these are not the kind of societies that that say, darn it. I've had enough. These are people who need I mean, the the the the the the demographic heart of of our societies is in the in in people who are of an age where they need care, not where they're gonna run out into the street shaking their fists. Speaker 0: So most of what the big health companies sell is loaded with sugar and fillers and synthetic junk. It's probably not too good for you, And that's why we're interested in a company called Peak. It's a modern wellness brand that is actually healthy. It's got clean science backed methods, all kinds of blends trusted by doctors, loved by experts. It supports gut health, glowing skin, steady energy, not peaks and valleys, and it makes it really easy for you to feel good all day long at your best. One of our favorites is RE fountain. It's a calming electrolyte designed to help your body recharge and recover overnight. It's got magnesium, no sugar at all, no artificial sweeteners, no fake flavors, and it gives your body what you need to hydrate and restore overnight, which is good. Everyone here has felt the difference, better sleep, more energy, smoother mornings. It has helped a lot of people here, and it can help you too. You get 20% off for life, for life, when you start your first month. Go to peaklife.com/tucker. Peak,pique,life.com/tucker. Highly recommend it. When the children of the latest wave of migrants to The United States are 18, so that'll be in fifteen years, then you're gonna have a really dynamic society. You're gonna have a lot of people born in this country to immigrant parents who feel like they want a piece of it, and you're gonna have massive change. Wouldn't you think? Absolutely. Speaker 1: And that I think is that's why I I've I've tended to look at this, you know, what's happening now with arguments over the border and with, you know, with Trump as part of a process that will come to resemble about a century later, the process that led to the New Deal. I mean, because I think the New Deal was was the consolidation of a new governing system in a way that took account of the waves of migration that had changed the country between 08/1880 and 1920. You know? And and, you know, we are we look at our present demographic change, and we say, oh my goodness. Things are really you know, what country has ever faced anything like this? And it's it's really there really is a a there are really a lot of points of contact between what what has happened with us and what happened to the country between 1880 and and 1920. You have, you know, people from you know, the the the initial argument is, look. You know, it's all well and good to receive people, but this country is about a certain set of values. It's about you know, it's historically determined. These people who are coming know nothing of our of our country. How are they going to ever, you know, assimilate into it? It's exactly the same arguments that you got in the eighteen eighties, eighteen nineties. Then you get demands for, you know, like, closing the border. And it just doesn't happen and doesn't happen and doesn't happen until 1924 when it suddenly happens. And then suddenly, the only people who can come here are the people who are already here. You know? I mean, let's see. The only Americans are the ones who've already arrived. Those are the only foreigners. And that's why, you know, if you look at it, it's why there are so many Italians in Argentina. They came after 1924 when the Italians could no longer go to to to New York. And so from there, these people had no choice but to mix together into a new kind of American. And and and the people who said these people will never be able to adapt to the old American ways, they were wrong, but they weren't totally wrong. I mean, they sort of like the the country did change to reflect the identity of the new of the new immigrants. And then in 1932, when Roosevelt came to power on the heels of an event that discredited the old elites, which is the crash. Then he claimed the authority to basically reorganize the the the country in the name of this new mix of the, you know, of the settled Americans, the new immigrant Americans, and it it knit the country into one people so effectively that by the 1950 no. By nineteen fifties and sixties, young Americans were sort of like complaining about how boring and homogenized The United States was. You know what I mean? Yes. And so so it can be done. Speaker 0: Will there after Trump leaves in three years, will there be, like, a series of Trumps, or will the party revert to what it was? Speaker 1: Oh, will the will the Republican party revert to what it was before Trump? Oh, first of all, I'd I think Trump is such a an unusual person that I don't think he can really be replicated even if no matter how hard anyone tries. He he was a he was a I I I mean, he he came to prominence because he had an incredible amount of, you know, what used to be called brass at a time when brass was was what what was required. There are other people who have sort of sort of who seem to have more of the, you know, more of the qualifications that that a politician would require, that is, like, patience and and, like, an understanding of policy and things like that. You had people like Ron DeSantis seem to be offering that to the Republican party for a while, but it's not what the country felt it needed. The country felt it needed brass. The country felt it needed someone to come in and insult, topple, and and break the old establishment. Speaker 0: Was that establishment broken, like, after Trump? Speaker 1: Well, it's still in progress. I mean, it's mean, I think I mean, this is something you know a lot more about than I do, but I I I mean, if I look at Trump one, I would say that that it was an almost utter failure on Trump's own terms. That is I mean, he he used that list that Leonard Leo and and others had given him to to to fortify to the Supreme Court as a, you know, a a more or less conservative force, and and he'd nominate a lot of judges. He but I don't think that he ever understood the where the actual levers of power in the government were. And so the the same deep state that he had complained about went on was as strong in the day he left office as it was on the day that he arrived, and so one had the impression that he'd learned absolutely nothing. And so what has happened in under Trump too is one of the most astonishing surprises in the history of American politics. Now in Brexit, you had a guy who was kind of a a genius in the workings of British government named Dominic Cummings, who was be able to say was able to say, well, no. You don't need to win a a a majority in parliament on this one. You just need to control the the the cabinet office, etcetera. Trump never had such a person, but apparently and the details are still not clear how. Apparently, he acquired one or several in the course of in the course of his four years out of power. I think Steve Bannon is correct to say that the tour four years out of power were in in Trumpian terms were were a great blessing for him. So there's someone I mean, maybe Steve Miller is an is a candidate for this who has the most tremendous Machiavellian understanding of what can be done inside government. I mean, the speed with which, you know, USAID was was dismantled, which in in what seems to me, it was not really a cost saving operation. It was like a purge of a of a certain tendency in in in government was really, you know, whatever you think of it as an ideological operation, it was a tremendously expert operation in terms of, you know, government rejiggering. The the executive orders that he has, you know, canceled and the new ones that he has passed in order to give a new reading to affirmative action, and I would say that the that affirmative action was in many ways the key institution of American government of the last half century. To render it inoperative even if he hasn't fully killed it is a is a constitutional revolution. So, yeah, this is I mean, things are still in progress. It's it's it's very difficult to see whether for whether an operation like, say, deportations, whether that is going to accelerate or whether Trump is really running out of gas and and and and and and this is going to but it's it's hard to see how it will proceed from here, but it's been a huge change. He's turned out to be a very significant president. Speaker 0: Can you go back a second? How was affirmative action the key institution in American government? Speaker 1: Well, I you know, I've always thought, and we've we've talked about this, that that the passage of the civil rights act of 1964 was the you know, it created a a new constitution that was was really at odds a de facto new constitution that was at odds with what we thought of as our real constitution. And as, you know, you know, what it basically tried to do was sort of, like, create a more you know, create a society in the South where, you know, blacks could live as equal citizens to to whites, you know, in in public and in in large companies and and and and that sort of thing. But it wound up to be a wound up being an incredibly versatile tool. You could use it for anything once you had declared a sort of national emergency. So, like, getting women onto, you know, like, corporate boards or getting, you know, bilingual education into schools, getting, you know, protecting, you know, transgender story hour. I mean, it just it just ramified into every corner of American life, and anybody could be made any anybody was under suspicion. And, you know, let's let's just say incorporation what worked publicly and privately. Incorporation's anyone who ran a a company that was, you know, larger than a few dozen people was understood to be under, you know, the government's watchful eye. You could you could you could avoid being sued really only by establishing an affirmative action program, And so it became it became the the means through which the government could approach any institution, public or private, and say, you know, we'd like to have a look at your hiring practices. We'd like to have a look at, like, how you and, you know, how you've been behaving for the last, you know, for the last year in your board meetings. We'd like to know if there's anyone you're hiring who has kind of an an animus against black people or women or gays or or immigrants. And so it had a very chilling effect at every level of government and at every level of of society. Is that over? It is for now, except we now have a culture in which for fifty years, people, even in the most private conversations, sort of have been trained to ask themselves, you know, can I say this or or is this okay? Or or, you know, like, you know, I'm not homophobic, but you know? And so you have a have a you have a society that has really been trained to be scared. So a lot of this you know? Yes. I think so so I think that institutionally, it's over, but but culturally, we are really not a a people that has sort of, like, learned to use freedom, and that will take a long time it'll take a long time to get an easy freedom of conversation back. Speaker 0: About about things obvious things that you notice, differences between people and differences between groups. Speaker 1: About anything. Speaker 0: About anything. Speaker 1: Almost anything. Speaker 0: Yeah. Do you see that changing? I see it changing. Speaker 1: Do you see it changing? Yes. I do. That's interesting. Yeah. It feels like the term Speaker 0: racist has lost its sting, like, almost completely. Speaker 1: Yeah. I well, I would expect that to happen. I'm I'm I don't I haven't really gathered any evidence about it. You know? I mean, for one thing, it's harder to, you know, sue a person when, you know, the government has announced that it's not enforcing affirmative action, that kind of thing. So, I mean, if you can it used to be that if someone could just if you could just successfully attach the word racist to a person, you know, whether through a lawsuit or a or a a or a public relations campaign, no one could hire him. Do you know what I mean? It was a real Speaker 0: Oh, I do know Speaker 1: what you mean. And it and it and it was sort of like it was not as different from the the Chinese social credit system, which we liked to deplore as we like to think. Speaker 0: And that is no longer true? Speaker 1: Yes. I think I think that is no longer true. I think it's no longer true that institutionally, you can destroy a person with that kind of imputation. However, it may become true again depending on what happens in the in the next election, so people are wary. And I also think that people we're not the sort of people that is comfortable going out on a limb anymore. We've become a very conversationally cautious people or at least anyone who's, like, lived the last several decades in this country, you acquire habits. I mean, I think that that you can't expect a person who's had these very self protective habits beaten into him over over decades to give them up in the same way that, you know, like, you know, people who lived through the depression maintained their habits of frugality for Yeah. Sixty years after that. Speaker 0: Yeah. I remember when banks introduced ATM cards, they couldn't get people who grew up during the depression to use them. Speaker 1: Well, that's a very good analogy. Because it was just too spooky. Yeah. You know? Speaker 0: Yeah. Do you remember a country where people spoke freely in conversation? Do you have memories of that? Speaker 1: I remember one where people spoke more free more more freely. I remember and and in fact, I went to college in the nineteen eighties. I think it was pretty free. And I and and, actually, when people describe the the first really mentioned in the wider public of so called political correctness was, I think, in the 1990 to 1991. Yes. And shortly thereafter, you know, you had the Clarence Thomas hearings for the Supreme Court, which introduced the idea of of sexual harassment. And I I got the feeling that things were changing very quickly right then. There are a couple of incidents then, and and and one that I I I remember very clearly was there is a there was a a Dodgers, an an executive for the Los Angeles Dodgers of named Al Campanis Yes. Who got invited on on Ted Koppel's show Nightline to talk about Jackie Robinson forty years after, you know, he'd entered the, you know, big leagues, and and Al Campanis had been you know, he was he was not only was he not a racist, he was he had been Jackie Robinson's roommate, and he was one of his defenders. He was great, but he said a few things kind of the wrong way, you know, like he gave a wrong answer to the question of why aren't more blacks managers, and he was ruined. He was ruined. This is a guy who had, like, fought to bring Jackie Robinson into the major leagues. But I mean, you know, you had he he lost his job, and I remember Maxine Waters who was the who was already in I don't think she was yet in congress, actually, but she was very active in in California politics already. So she wanted to be sure that he wasn't, you know, secretly being given any benefits by the Dodgers of any kind, and, I mean, he was just like, he was just destroyed, this this this kindly old man who had been a friend of Jackie Robinson, and it was clearly, was something was was happening there. And I think that what was happening is that these enforcement possibilities, which are in the civil rights act, that that lawyers were getting were getting more adept at using them for a growing number of things, like saying, well, of course, you have freedom of speech, but if you say that in the company you own, you will create a hostile environment for your your employees, and therefore, they'll be able to sue you for this much money. So, basically, without without banning speech, you were able to make speech very uncomfortable for people. Speaker 0: Did that just play out? Was I mean, is it just impossible for people to live this way forever and people just decide Speaker 1: No. It didn't play out. It had to be rebelled against. And the and the removal the lifting of the executive orders that that that that order affirmative action by Trump was an absolutely necessary step. The decision not to enforce infirm affirmative action was a necessary step. By the way, it was preceded it was preceded by a Supreme Court case that appeared in its mealy mouthed way to say negative things about affirmative action programs in universities, but it's clear that universities were proceeding were proceeding as as best they they could to to maintain it. So, no, it does not play out. It's a it's a a this affirmative action, political correctness woke this whole constellation of authoritarian and and even totalitarian seeming rules. They are rules. They are not part of the culture. They are not the result of, you know, a lot of people deciding we really ought to be nicer to trans people. They're they are enforced by the fact that that if you fall afoul of these of of of, you know, of of civil right rights laws, it can cost you your business and your reputation and everything else. Speaker 0: What what's the real purpose of the I sense that social justice is not actually the the the goal. Speaker 1: Well, I no. I you know you know, I and and I should add that that that, you know, the this is just a well, let's let let let's deal with this. I think that solving the age old race problem in The United States was the original goal of civil rights. Yes. But the tools that that were given to solve that problem included ways to overturn democratic democratically made decisions in in in the South. That tool, that ability to to circumvent a democratic mandate from the American people from any people is such a valuable thing for politicians to have, and so they started using it for everything. As I say, you know, you know, underrepresentation of women, underrepresentation of immigrants, underrepresentation of Hispanics, all these things become become crises, and social justice actually was the name that was given to this, but it was always and you can call it anything you want, but it it always was a way of of using the government to sort of order society, and that's and the danger of it was that you could do that at a really, really micro level. You know? I mean, you can do it at the level of, like, what signs people hang in the doors of their Oh, yeah. Shops. You know? And so it became kind of like the world that, you know, Vaclav Havel describes in his and that's why everyone started reading Vaclav Havel and Alexander Solzhenitsyn again because our society felt like those Eastern European societies at the time of No. It would it Speaker 0: was it was Soviet. It was totalitarian. I mean, in the in the strict sense, it was That's right. Total control over people's lives. Speaker 1: Yeah. I like that to to draw the distinction that that Hannah Arendt does at one point. A lot of people use totalitarianism to mean, like, a really you know I mean, Mussolini originally used it to mean, you know, like the state can, you know, like, be all competent, and a lot of people in our time use it to mean like a really, really, really bad dictatorship. But the way Hannah Arendt uses it means, like, the state gets into the totalitarian the totality of your Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 1: Of your of your life. Doesn't have to be Right? There's no nook of your life that the state where the state does not belong. The state wants to be at your dinner table. You know what I mean? And and and listening in on you. You know? The state wants to be, you know, on your route to work and make you know? If the state wants to be everywhere with you in everything you do. Speaker 0: Can we go back to that? So you said that this was not organic. The population never cried out for total control of its personal conversations or anything else. It it was imposed on the population by the state. Now it's been rolled back by the state. Right. Run by Donald Trump. But can it be reimposed? Would people put Like, could President Alexandria Ocasio Cortez be like, you know, my goal as president is gonna be to eliminate racism? Wouldn't people just laugh at her? Speaker 1: Yes. But there there there might be a confrontation. I mean, as long as Trump hasn't, you know, removed these laws from the books, which he hasn't, he's merely sort of, like, suspended the enforcement of them, and he's unwritten some executive orders, which can be re you know, reissued. I mean, it's it's a reprieve. So the interesting thing would be what would happen if you know, how would the the public respond with, you know, four years of living more freely if those freedoms were suddenly withdrawn. And this includes you mentioned young people. This includes people, you know, who've had who've never had any experience of of having political politically correct censorship at work or or that sort of thing, and I don't know. Speaker 0: You were saying last night at dinner that people often say the Democratic Party, when it takes power again, as it will at some point, will be a lot more radical, but you were saying maybe that's not correct. Speaker 1: I don't know what they will have the the capacity to do. You know, I don't you know, you say, well, you know, how will people respond if president Ocasio Cortez says, you know, we're gonna have, you know, affirmative action and and drag queen story hour again. I just don't know. But I do yes. I do think the Democratic Party is is probably is probably going to you know, it's gonna find something to you know, some way to radicalize. Speaker 0: At what point do economic debates, like, reemerge? I noticed we've you know, as we've been talking about drag queen story hour and race and sexuality and all this stuff, there's been, in a way that would have been weird forty years ago, but almost no conversation of, like, macroeconomics in public. Like, all the oxygen's taken up by that this the political Speaker 1: correct stuff. Yeah. I and I I I think it's it's a very welcome thing that economics is coming back. You hear a bit of it when we talk about the tariffs. You know? A very inter I mean, but Trump is Trump has really confounded a lot of the of the categories. I think that that everyone has the habit of, like, saying, you know, talking about tax cuts for the rich and and and all that kind of thing to tie this to what we've been saying with immigration. Immigration is a very important part of this economic question. Trump an interesting thing about Trump's first term is that as best we can measure it, it was a highly egalitarian period, and, you know, we really only have accurate undistorted numbers for the first three years of it because the final year of it was was COVID. But it really appeared that the that the bottom quintile of of earners advanced against other quintiles for the first time since the twentieth century. And I, you know Really? Yes. Yes. And this is in the the the Fed's numbers that came out at towards the end of the the Trump administration. If you look at total economic performance, like the way we tend to measure it, okay, we tend to measure it by the mean, that is the GDP per capita. Economic performance was much better, or it was better under the Obama administration than it was under Trump. The economy grew more. However, if you look at the distribution of it, it was there were far lower gains for the the very rich under Trump, and and but there were relative gains for the there were absolute gains, let us say, for the people in the lower quintiles. I think the four bottom quintiles did quite well under Trump. Speaker 0: And that So his voters benefited is what you're saying. Speaker 1: Exactly. Okay. So there's I mean, it's hard to say why that happened. I think immigration did go down, but mostly immigration was talked down. Okay? When you have high immigration, high immigration is like a direct transfer payment from those who compete with immigrants to those who use immigrants. You know? But that's that's interesting. Speaker 0: So immigration really is a transfer of wealth to the rich. Speaker 1: Yeah. So when we talk about Trump and immigration, that's that that's, I think, an important thing to keep in mind. And and and that is why a lot of people were really surprised by the shift in votes among particularly among black and Hispanic males to Trump in in in 2024, and people have sought to explain it through these cultural, you know, factors that we've been discussing earlier today. Oh, it was a Trump's, you know, endorsement by this rap hip hop star or whatever. But I think it might just be that people, you know, people at that part of the economy, you know, who tend to be you know, that that that benefited from Trump won, tend to be disproportionately black and Hispanic. And it might just be a direct a case of of of people just devoting their direct economic interests. It's a Speaker 0: little weird if you go through the congressional black caucus, certainly among the people whose names you've heard, like the famous black political leaders in this country, they're all for open borders. Speaker 1: Well, I think that that is largely intersectionality, and, you know, people talk about people in in universities talk about intersectionality like it's a a theory about, you know, the how, you know, different types of lack of privilege intersect, like, you know, am I am I more discriminated against because I'm a black woman or because I'm a lesbian and and that kind of thing, or because I'm foreign or whatever. But actually, what intersectionality is you've you've used the term on your on your show, but I what I think it really is is just coalition building. The civil rights regime created a a system in which you you could do almost anything you wanted. A minority could do almost anything you that he wanted with government. Could do almost anything you wanted with government in the name of minorities, but minorities remained minorities. You couldn't get the the majority to do that. So what happens is minorities wind up make the beneficiaries of minority government wind up making an alliance. You know? You can't vote against immigration because you're a woman, and, you know, women's rights are immigrant rights, and immigrant rights are human rights, and human rights are gay rights, and and they're all wrapped up together. So and that's where the, you know, like, the the much mocked non sequiturs of intersectionality come from, like like gays for Gaza and and and that and that kind of thing. It's my favorite. Yeah. So But really, Speaker 0: you're just describing the Democratic Party. That that this is just like a theoretical overlay to justify retroactively a coalition. Speaker 1: Democratic Party is the party of the beneficiary beneficiaries of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Speaker 0: The Democratic Party is the party of beneficiaries of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Republican Party is the party of the victims of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Speaker 1: Or those who have objections to it on you know? I mean, if you count among the victims, those who feel their liberty is constrained by it. Speaker 0: Yeah. I would say curtailing someone's liberty is to hurt somebody. Okay. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 0: Interesting. Does that change? Speaker 1: Well, as I say, I think it's it's in abeyance now. But but, you know, to if if if I could say another thing about about immigration and the economy, there is a kind of a longer term there's a kind of a longer term process sort of working itself out as we create this as we create through border enforcement a tightening of the labor market on the bottom of the income distribution, it should do some very good things for the for the country. If you believe, as I think you probably should believe, that that inequality is one of the biggest problems confronting the country, it's going to alleviate that somewhat, but it's going to do it in a kind of a it's gonna do it in a way that is going to hurt in places. I think people are right. I mean, I think those economists who say that that that immigration that curtailing immigration is inflationary are right, and it's inflationary in a lot of ways that affect the not just the upper middle class, but also the middle class lifestyle, like the great proliferation of of really nice restaurants. The idea that, you know, when this experiment in mass immigration in in a nearly open border, you know, with Mexico began in in the nineteen seventies, there weren't a dozen sushi restaurants in Pittsburgh. You know? I mean, people didn't Speaker 0: There were no sushi pits. Speaker 1: There weren't restaurants in Pittsburgh. Oh, this stuff, we tend to think that that this is that these amenities have developed because of our, you know, improving taste We're just so much more discerning than our parents were. But the difference, I think, is this source of of of just plentiful, bountiful, really cheap labor for people who can can, you know, work in back kitchens and things like that. Speaker 0: So There's no when I worked in a restaurant as a dishwasher forty years ago, this summer, it was a diner in New England. Everyone was white in the kitchen. Everybody. Everyone on the criminal record, everyone was white. Speaker 1: Interesting. But so when you when you when you tighten up that labor market and suddenly you have to pay your dishwasher a dollar more, $2 more, $3 more, the the the the meals in your restaurant are gonna get more expensive. So there aren't gonna be, you know, like, sandwiches gourmet sandwiches for $11.99 anymore. They're gonna be, like, $28.99. You know? And people are gonna say, I'm gonna bring my sandwich to to work. You know? I'm gonna and and then the restaurant is gonna close. And the country is gonna become much more like it was, like what you saw the tail end of in your diner in New England. It's gonna have crummier food. It's gonna have know, things are gonna there's gonna be a lot more sameness. That's the that's what the world of a of a of a of a low immigration, less free market, or let's where there's less of a free market in labor. That's what a society like that looks like. The the working class gets richer. They they move towards the middle. Everyone gravitates towards the middle class. Right? And institutions, economic institutions begin to serve the middle class. That is you have a a shrinking of gourmet restaurants and concentration of restaurants in the middle of, you know, the middle of the road category. Speaker 0: So the middle class was the dominant, you know, was the dominant portion of the country. Was the majority middle class country up until, I think, 2015. And did that change and then the middle class is no longer the majority. Is is that because of immigration? Speaker 1: Has a lot to do with immigration. Yes. Globalization and immigration. And, I mean, I I think people people tend not to mention immigration. I mean, people tend to say it's a mix of globalization, that is free trade Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 1: And technology. You know? But I think that the most important part of globalization is immigration. Speaker 0: Why is it the most important? You mean it has affected most changes? Speaker 1: George Borjas, the Harvard economist, has said that, you know, immigration people always talk about, you know, is immigration good for the economy or bad for the economy? And, basically, whenever you measure it, it's tough to get an effect on the economy that's more than, like, 1%. It's so trivial. I I I mean but what the huge effect is, which is, like, dozens of times larger than the effect on the economy as a whole is the transfer effect. The sort of loss of jobs by people who need $15 an hour to wash dishes to those who will do it for $8 an hour. Okay? And the benefit to people who used to be paying their gardener, you know, $30 an hour, but now find it can be done for $6 an hour. Or more likely, they pay a guy who's got a team on his truck, and they pay him, you know, $30 an hour and let him sort out how this is done. And he does it much quicker, and they save money. You see what I mean? Speaker 0: I do. Speaker 1: So it becomes a it becomes a transfer from the from the working class. Speaker 0: So it doesn't necessarily ex I think what you're saying is it doesn't necessarily expand your economy, but it just makes the rich richer. I think so. So that would explain why rich people in these are broad strokes, but in general, hate any conversation about immigration. Mhmm. Immediately go to motive, you're a racist, and just aren't at all interested in talking about it at all, and why working class people really resent it. There may be other reasons too, but that seems like a big reason. Speaker 1: Yes. Those are broad strokes, but I think they're roughly accurate. There's a, you know, I I I there's a French sociologist named Christophe Guilouis who's written books about how this has worked in France, and his thinking has really clarified mine on this, but, you know, you basically in France, you have 20 cities that are like nodes of the global economy, and they like you know, like in in Toulouse, you have Airbus, and where there, you know, where there are engineers and executives at Airbus, they have, you know, you know, African gardeners, and and and there are nannies, and there are all sorts of people there. It's a global economy niche. When you get out into the countryside, none of that stuff touches anything. It's basically people the economy consists of, like, returning, you know, cans to the, you know, to the grocery store. This explains why, you know, if you live in a place like Washington DC or or Berkeley, California and and and or Boston, people are, like, sincerely puzzled. They say, like, how did Trump win? I don't know anyone who voted for him. You know? And they say they'll say something like, no. Really. I've talked to people of all classes. I didn't vote for him. You know? My mother didn't vote for him. My nanny, you know, you know, in you know, from Jamaica didn't you know, who's not natural ized and can vote. She didn't vote for him. And the answer is the the dividing line is is not between rich and poor. It's between the beneficiaries of and the excluded from the global economy. Right? That's the dividing line in the politics. Speaker 0: So when you give up open borders, you're really giving up, like, a whole way of life. Speaker 1: You give up the solidarity between classes in your country. Speaker 0: What does that mean? Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm as soon as I said it, I realized that what you could look at it in a in a separate in a different way. I mean, you you give up a dynamic that brings the classes close together, you know, which is that the the ability of of working class people to withhold their labor for more money. Right. You know what I mean? You undercut that. They become the it it's why trade unions, they were actual industrial unions and not arms of the Democratic party, you know, were you know, they they equated immigrant labor with scab labor that was Well, they were behind the immigration restrictions Yes. Speaker 0: Of the Speaker 1: nineteen twenties. So you give up that dynamic. You know? It's but it's very tempting. You know? It's there there are other ways to look at it, but, yeah, I think that's basically that's basically the the best way to Speaker 0: look it. Ever decide is it as its, you know, economy matures and it and cools inevitably, that it needs mass immigration to China? Speaker 1: You know, I don't know much about China. I know I know a little more about about Japanese. You know, China China has had a China has had a tremendous amount of of internal labor migration, which it is just which is just about to come to the end of. And and and so its labor costs are going to rise. I don't know how it's going to react. It's very interesting that Japan has chosen, you know, a tightening economy over a diversifying society. That is they've they've kept out immigrant labor for the most part. And where they've admitted it, they've tended to tended to do it on a temporary basis. You know, you get a few Filipino nannies, and you they Right. Send them home at the end of their of their of their term. Speaker 0: The only mass migration they've had in the last hundred years has been from Korea, which they controlled until 1945, and then the Koreans who stayed kinda pretend they're Japanese. Speaker 1: Yes. So, you know, I think that you know? Speaker 0: And How's that Speaker 1: trade worked Speaker 0: for them? Speaker 1: I think it's worked well for them. I mean, I think it's worked for them. I mean, The United States is constantly the The United States has brought tremendous pressure on Japan to to admit immigrants, and this is one of the things that I find exactly. This is one of the things I find quite mysterious. But if you look at the pressure that The United this is one of the things that I think that USAID did. It's, I mean, it's sort of an ideological arm of the country. But if you look at not just programs, but but people in The United States, diplomatic or in the state department were always sort of like browbeating Victor Orban in Europe, for instance, for not for not being more welcoming of immigrants. But I so I think we're at the point now where we're in a moment of of transition, but I I I you know, Japan is is deeply in debt. They I believe they have the largest per capita debt in the world, although it is all to themselves. You know? So it's the it's debt to the so it it should be it should be workable. But there's still a Japan. And, you know, as we've discussed, Japan decided that it valued its cultural continuity more than European countries did. And so Japan, if you go there, you'll discover it's still, I think, the Japan that people who went there twenty or thirty years ago remember it as. Speaker 0: So that I mean, they seem like the only smart country, like, in the world because that does seem no one's starving in Japan. Actually, Japan is infinitely nicer than New York, for example. Sorry. And Tokyo is. And even though it's bigger and more crowded. Yeah. I And I just wonder, like, is that like, that just that just seems like the greatest win to me. Speaker 1: I well, I well, they they think so because they continue to they continue to keep this policy, and and there's not a lot of there's not a lot of agitation for for changing it. You know? But I don't I don't I don't know. It's been a few years since I've been there. Speaker 0: Last question. Are you hopeful about The United States? Speaker 1: Yeah. For you know? But I I I'm not sure that's saying much. I I I tend to to to want to be hopeful, and and and The United States has some tremendous strengths. You know? It's got The United States is something has happened since the I'm I'm I'm using Europe, which I think is the best, you know, frame of comparison here. The, you know, The United States has got a lot richer than Europe in the last fifteen years. I don't know why that's happened. The two societies seem to be converging up until, you know, roughly the time of the the, you know, the the the the financial crisis of two thousand and eight and then the euro crisis that followed it. And since then, The United States has peeled away by, like, I don't know, twenty twenty or 25% from from European standards of living. So it's it's richer. It seems to have a it seems to be in a period of democratic abolition. I mean, that is the the the populace the is engaged. This doesn't mean that, you know, they've made a right choice with Donald Trump or that he's always gonna do the right thing, but but the the the the the public is kind of vigilant, and and it's it is reforming the country. And we've reformed before, so I'm I'm relatively I'm relatively optimistic. Speaker 0: I am too. And you make me feel optimistic. Christopher Caldwell, thank you very much. Speaker 1: Thank you, Tucker.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:19 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Big Pharma Whistleblower Exposes The ADHD Lie You Were Sold https://t.co/eUBVzKggOx

Video Transcript AI Summary
ADHD medications: long-term results show "When you look at the results long term, they do not improve academics," and they are "medications are mostly effective for controlling behavior." The speaker notes ADHD mirrors societal expectations: "academic success is synonymous with your value as a person." He attributes many adult ADHD symptoms to lifestyle, citing "poor diet and insulin resistance" as drivers of anxiety, depression, and "brain fog." He says ketogenic diets can reverse insulin resistance and cites "Alzheimer's type three diabetes because the correlation between the worsening of diabetes type two and your blood sugar levels correlates with cognitive decline." He argues there are reversible changes you can make and suggests diet, activity, stopping cannabis, and engaging work to reduce stimulant need. Cannabis is "a massive gateway drug into the psychiatric industry," capable of causing "psychosis" (with potency described as 40 times higher). He would not prescribe cannabis for mental illness: "No. It doesn't make any sense at all." He supports using "I think we have to use every tool that we have" with informed consent; "I will give you informed consent about the medication" if non-drug means fail, and monitor.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: What about amphetamines and their ADHD and the fact that, like, every third kid on your street is taking this stuff? Like, what what is ADHD? Are amphetamines an effective way to treat it? What are the long term effects of those drugs? Speaker 1: I mean, ADHD I mean, I wanna start here. So there was there was an awesome piece in New York Magazine recently that summarized a lot of this research, but it really the thing that most parents care about is usually academic improvement. That's why they want their kids on these medications. When you look at the results long term, they do not improve academics. What they find is that the medications are mostly effective for controlling behavior. So when you have kids who are fidgety, who are having to pay attention to things that are boring, putting them on medications makes them easier to control. Speaker 0: So if you're like a bad teacher Yeah. They're good. Speaker 1: They're good. They're they're great. Now, I mean, there is some I mean, ADHD is interesting because it kinda hits at the it's like societal expectations. Like in The US and in a lot of developed countries, academic success is synonymous with your value as a person. You know, if you have to be successful at school to be worthy, and a lot of parents believe that. And so they will push their kids into, you know, subjects and, you know, even university courses because they want to help them. They think they're helping them by pushing them into these things. And the kids are really struggling, and they're not interested in it. And you can put someone on a stimulant, it will make something that's boring more interesting. Definitely. Yeah. And so there's there's also You have the world's Speaker 0: most boring conversations on cocaine, but you have no idea they're boring. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and so that's that's the same with with with your studies. And then I think another thing that I believe is going on that really doesn't get enough airtime is that actually a lot of lifestyle problems are leading to ADHD, especially in adults. And the main one being poor diet and insulin resistance. You know, as people become insulin resistant, they end up with more anxiety, more depression, and more brain fog. Essentially, they've broken their body because they've been eating too many refined carbohydrates, added sugars, all of that, and it makes it very hard for neurons to work when the system is disrupted, there's too much insulin, they can't pull energy in. And so I think a lot of people out there have very legitimate, problems focusing and feeling foggy, but they're not really looking at lifestyle issues that are really clear. And oftentimes people, if they do things like, you know, they try ketogenic diets. This is like a really big thing in the mental health space. And they work for a lot of mental health conditions because they reverse insulin resistance and they improve energy, you know, the way your cells work. And so I think the biggest thing that I worry about Speaker 0: So it does work. The low carb diet affects your mental health. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. In a major way. Some people even call Alzheimer's type three diabetes because the correlation between the worsening of diabetes type two and your blood sugar levels correlates with cognitive decline. I mean, the insulin resistance diabetes all has very strong links to cognitive decline. And so when it comes to ADHD, think the thing that bothers me the most is that there's actually a lot of reversible things that you can do there. You can, you know, if you have brain fog, it's not that you're just like, you know, you're weak and you're not trying hard enough or you're lazy or something like that. I mean, if you can look at your diet and there's things you can optimize there, you can get moving, if you can stop smoking cannabis, there's a lot of and, you know, obviously, if you can actually try and do work that you genuinely find energizing and that you enjoy, you probably won't need to be on stimulants. Speaker 0: Stop smoking cannabis. I thought cannabis was good for you. It's medicine. Speaker 1: It's a medicine. It's a herb. Cannabis is actually this is this is you're gonna get me on something that I'm really bothered about, is that cannabis is a massive gateway drug into the psychiatric industry. It is a huge trigger for mania and schizophrenia. It is completely downplayed by big cannabis because we've decided to legalize it in so many states now. And many people, they'll end up, they'll think it's harmless, it's this herb, not realizing that the potency has increased like 40 times since what it used to be, and it triggers mania and psychosis. And then the doctors will see them and the doctors will downplay the role of cannabis and they'll say, oh, you have schizophrenia, or you have bipolar, and then they put them on an antipsychotic, and then this person just ends up on antipsychotics for a really long period of time when really the issue was that they had a psychotic reaction. Speaker 0: So you believe that cannabis use can lead to schizophrenia? Speaker 1: I I wouldn't say schizophrenia. I would say I believe that cannabis use can cause psychosis, and that psychosis can endure sometimes for, a year or two after they have the psychotic break. Because to say something schizo it's schizophrenia makes it sound like, you know, they just had a broken brain. Know, their their brain was broken and it was just inevitable to happen. I've worked with patients who have smoked cannabis, they've had psychotic reactions, and even after they've come off the cannabis, for a period of like a year or two, they've still experienced periodic episodes of psychosis before it fizzled out. The only way I can understand that is that that drug, when they had that psychotic episode, it actually damaged their brain. It was big like hit, and it took them a couple years afterwards to fully recover from that. And I've looked into this with many other people who actually work in this space, and they see that. When you have a psychotic reaction to cannabis, it can sometimes take months or even a year or two to fully go away. I think doctors misdiagnose that and tell someone, this is a sign you have a broken brain, you have schizophrenia, time to put you on the drug. Speaker 0: So you're saying that the drug companies wouldn't necessarily be opposed to marijuana legalization? Speaker 1: No. No. It's creating customers. Speaker 0: Do you really think that? Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know That's really dark. Well, I don't think they are you know, I don't know if there's, like, a drug company lobbyist out there just being like, hey, you know, we really wanna kind of push this knowingly, but it sure helps them that big cannabis is out there and it is sowing a message that essentially these drugs are safe herbs, these drugs are medicine. When they're I mean, they're Frankenstein drugs now. I mean, they're 40 times more potent than than how they used to be. Speaker 0: So just to bottom line it, as a practicing licensed psychiatrist, would you ever prescribe cannabis to a patient for mental illness? Speaker 1: No. It doesn't make any sense at all. Speaker 0: Would you prescribe SSRIs? Speaker 1: So this is where there's a bit more nuance here. I think we have to use every tool that we have. And I mean, there are a lot of people out there who will say I mean, the fact is these drugs have saved people's lives. I can say that, you know, even with a lot of the concern that, you know, the drug effect wears off. But imagine someone who, they come in and they're unhappy, and and and this is this is rare. You talk to them about their life. There's no relationship issues going on. It it looks really good. Work's fine. You've tried to optimize their health. You've done everything that you could, and they're still unhappy. Something is still going on. You know, maybe they have really severe OCD or something like that. I'm not gonna sit there and just say, I I'm not gonna give you any treatment. If I've tried all of the non drug strategies to help you and you're still suffering, I will give you informed consent about the medication, I will put you on it, and I'll monitor you, and I'll I'll do my best to make sure that you're that you're functioning. And, you know, if there's side effects that come up, I'll catch them early. My issue with the medications is that they're used first up without anyone trying with with minimal, with with lip service, really, to helping people with non drug means first. But if you've done all of that and it's still not working, I think it makes sense to use a drug to make someone more functional.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:19 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

The Biggest Scam In Medical History https://t.co/xaRA5QES5j

Video Transcript AI Summary
Prozac was rolled out on the covers of Time or Newsweek, hailed as a wonder drug that would fix psychiatric problems. It was described as helping regulate, and I'm quoting, 'chemical imbalances in the brain,' not as something that would numb you. The 'chemical imbalance myth' was 'a story that was sold to doctors and patients to make them feel better about taking drugs for their mood.' The message became that 'your brain is defective, there's something wrong with it, and we're gonna give you this chemical to bring things up to normal.' This created a billion-dollar war chest of marketing; Prozac made Eli Lilly a billion-dollar company and shifted psychiatry from Freudian root-cause therapy to dispensing drugs. No biological markers differentiate depressed from undepressed: 'There is no difference.' Yet doctors were encouraged to say this was a medical condition, aided by pharmaceutical propaganda, with 'rednecks' stigmatizing the mentally ill.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: I remember when the rollout for Prozac, I think it was on the cover of Time or Newsweek or one of the then popular news weeklies in The United States, and it was hailed as a wonder drug that was going to fix America's psychiatric problems. Mhmm. And it didn't. But it was also described as a drug that helped, as I recall, that helped regulate, and I'm quoting, chemical imbalances in the brain. It was not described as something that would numb you. Speaker 1: Yeah, it's essentially just a story that was sold, the chemical imbalance myth was a story that was sold to doctors and patients to make them feel better about taking drugs for their mood. Because I think intuitively, many people, you know, when you say, hey, you know, I'm unhappy, I'm anxious, I'm depressed, if you went to that person and said, hey, do you want to take a drug that's going to mask those symptoms? Intuitively, people would say, no, you know, I'd rather get to the root cause of that sweeping things under the rug usually doesn't work that well. Yes. But when you craft a narrative about these drugs fixing a chemical imbalance, like, say, like a type one diabetic who doesn't have enough insulin, you give them insulin and it kind of sort of like a magic bullet kind of injects itself, like, right into that, you know, pathological process and fixes it, that's kind of a different message. The message to the person is that your brain is defective, there's something wrong with it, and we're gonna give you this chemical to bring things up to normal. Yes. That's a lot easier for someone to say, well, actually, I need my medicine because I'm broken. But that was essentially a lie. The idea that these drugs fixed a chemical imbalance simply came from observations that when you give people serotonergic drugs, they can become calmer, they can look less depressed. And so rather than the obvious explanation being, okay, this is a drug effect that we're seeing, you know, they are drugged, and that's what we're looking at, people said, well, maybe they just had low serotonin and now they're looking better because we've fixed this chemical imbalance. And so that message has just been grabbed by pharmaceutical industry and psychiatrists to essentially lull people into this state where they feel more comfortable taking them. Speaker 0: It changed, among other things, the practice of psychiatry completely. And I remember this just because I grew up in an affluent area where people use psychiatrists, not in my family, but everyone else's family. And the the idea it was Freudian psychiatry, and the idea was we are gonna treat the root causes. Now you would ever think of Freudian psychiatry or Freud or whatever, but, you'd sit on the couch and talk about your childhood. Like, that would By addressing the root cause of your problems, you would make it better. That was the promise of it, whether it worked or not. And then it felt like in one day, right around the time Prozac came out, Freud was being denounced everywhere as a sexist. And Freudian psychiatry became not just sort of passe, but like affirmatively unpopular. And the role of psychiatrist was to dispense these drugs. From an outsider's perspective, that's what I noticed at the time. Speaker 1: That is what happened. And I think what was going on was all of a sudden you had a billion dollar war chest of marketing spend that was trying to seize control of the narrative about medications. And so, I mean, Prozac was like a blockbuster. Some people may not remember this, but that was the drug that made Eli Lilly a billion dollar company. I mean, it was a small company before then. And so at every single level, there was an incentive to change how people thought about distress. You know, no longer was depression and anxiety a complex thing where, there could be relationship issues and problems at work and problems in your childhood. All of that stuff was now it was almost bigoted in a way to talk about depression and anxiety as if it had these intuitive social and societal causes. It was now a medical condition. And if you were going to say that it wasn't a medical condition, you weren't taking it seriously and you were stigmatizing people. So drug companies, they would platform, I guess through their influence with the universities the media, they were able to push out this narrative. And so they could shoot down Freudian analysis and therapy. And so the message essentially came out that was this is a chemical imbalance, these are medical conditions, and if you say anything otherwise, you're stigmatizing the mentally ill. Speaker 0: But couldn't I mean, it doesn't that's obviously what happened. I saw it happen. But it doesn't really make internal sense. Like, you could you could say, you know, I think you're depressed because all your relationships are dysfunctional, or your parents are horrible, or whatever, or you're failing at work. Those are all common causes of sadness for sure, without dismissing or stigmatizing the person or his problems. Like, you are taking it seriously. You're just trying to find the actual cause of the problems, right? Speaker 1: I mean, absolutely. I mean, I think to logical people that makes sense. But the way that played out in public spaces and in medical schools was that that was actually a very backwards and kind of, dismissive thing to You know, people would say things like, you know, depression just isn't normal sadness. You know, it's a serious biological problem. And so to suggest that, you know, this is just some, you know, life issues going on, relationship issues, You were kind of branded as someone who really you just didn't get it. You didn't understand, you know, the medical underpinnings of this new disease that was gripping the country and kind of evolving and making people suffer. Speaker 0: Did the people making these claims understand the medical basis of this illness they were describing? Speaker 1: No. I mean, it's Speaker 0: Right. I mean, that's the irony. Right? So so, for example, they say it's a chemical imbalance. Did anyone ever describe what balance is? Speaker 1: So, I mean, the thing this is like a white lie that people sort of rationalize to themselves. They because, you know, people have looked at the chemical imbalance, and there is a clear way to do it. You can you can look at the brains of depressed people on autopsy, and you can actually, you know, look at receptor levels and say, you know, is there any changes in the receptors? You can stick needles into people's spine, and you can draw out fluid, and you can look at the metabolites of things like serotonin, and you can get depressed people and undepressed people and say, is there any difference in the actual amount of serotonin floating around in the brain? Every time they've done this, they have not found that there is any difference between depressed and undepressed people. But Speaker 0: There's no difference? Speaker 1: There is no difference. Because that's why we don't use any biological markers in the diagnosis of any psychiatric conditions. No brain scans, no blood tests. We can do all of those things. They're not useful because there are no ways, you know, like actual biological ways to differentiate depressed people from underpressed people. Speaker 0: Are you serious? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So, well, that's not a white lie then. That's like a massive whopper. If you're telling me there's a biological basis for anything, but you can't show it, then you're lying. Yeah. Or guessing at best. Speaker 1: And the way they justify it was, well, okay. So we haven't found it yet, but it must be a medical problem, and we're eventually gonna find it. And rather than admitting that, in the meantime, we'll just tell people it's a chemical imbalance because it's an easy it's it's an easy kind of like metaphor for them to understand, and it helps us dish out the drugs without people asking too many questions. Speaker 0: It's untrue. Speaker 1: It's untrue. Speaker 0: Therefore, physicians should not say that or they should lose their medical license. Speaker 1: They shouldn't they shouldn't have been saying it. Speaker 0: But I thought I mean, like, strict adherence to reality, honesty, thought that was a prerequisite for practicing medicine, getting a license. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, what's happened in the space of psychiatry is almost like our field has become so overrun with pharmaceutical propaganda that it's not really an issue of truth in a lot of places, it's like a moral issue. Doctors feel the need to almost encourage people to take these medications and cheerlead them onto it. It has been sort of cast as an issue where it's like, you know, these medications are heavily stigmatized, you know, there's a bunch of rednecks running around telling people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, you know? You know, that's like the boogeyman that's cast out there. Seriously? Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, that that people are, like, you know, there's But Speaker 0: there are rednecks out there. Speaker 1: Yeah, there are rednecks out there stigmatizing the mentally ill saying, you know, your suffering isn't real. And so we need to kind of pedal this narrative about there being a chemical imbalance and encourage people to take these medications because mean society out there is telling people to just sit there and suffer in silence and to not take the drugs. And so doctors see it as almost a this is what medical school was like for me in residency. It's like, don't question the drugs, don't question the side effects, you to encourage people to take them. So it's hinged away from truth, and it has become more of this moral issue. Least that's how Sounds like a religion. Yeah, mean, that's what decades of drug company propaganda has done to kind of shape the narrative about how doctors and patients and the media view this issue.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:13 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

“This Guy Was Possessed” - Tucker’s Thoughts on the Minneapolis Shooter https://t.co/OsNZIYUZAW

Video Transcript AI Summary
Two speakers discuss the Minneapolis shooting and a Cyrillic manifesto. They note translations show the attack targets a Catholic church, with magazines that are anti-Christian, anti-Muslim ('remove kebab'), anti-Jewish ('6,000,000 wasn't enough'), and anti-gay, plus a drawing of the shooter facing a demon in a mirror. The first page reportedly asks 'who am I?' and later 'I am.' They see demonic influence and connect 'I am' with God’s identity. They contrast two errors—new atheism/materialism and the view that the body doesn’t define the self (trans ideology)—and discuss digital life as a 'portal to hell' fueling self-perception. They also speak of a Catholic revival via sacramental theology, noting 'this is my body, which will be given up for you' and 'hawkastinum corpus meum,' and argue the body matters in truth against modernity intensified by COVID isolation.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: What do you make of the shooting in Minneapolis? Like, how should we think of there's so many different threads there. I I I don't really understand. Speaker 1: Did you read the manifesto Speaker 0: I did not. Speaker 1: The diary. So I I took a look. Speaker 0: I saw they were in Cyrillic script. Speaker 1: Yes. Cyrillic. My Cyrillic's not great, but I I we had some translations done, and you could read the writing on the magazines. And the first thing that struck me, I mean, after the the horror of it, you know, you just think the most vulnerable people of the of the church being attacked by this by this maniac. The first thing that struck me was how apparently incoherent it all was, because it's an attack on a Catholic church, on these, like, innocent little kids in a Catholic church. And then if you look on the guns and on the magazines, it's not just anti Christian. It's anti Muslim. It says remove kebab. It's anti Jewish. 6,000,000 wasn't enough. It's nihilistic. It's it's anti gay. The guy was a tranny. And then there's the the scariest part of it is on this page, there's a picture he drew of himself, and it's him looking in a mirror. And he's got the gun behind him, and in the mirror is a picture of a demon. And that's scary enough. Like a goat headed demon. Like a goat headed Baphomet looking demon. When you read, when you translate the Cyrillic, the first thing that's written, top left of the page, is who am I? And this is really jarring because you recognize that Moses at the burning bush, he asks God, who are you? You know, who will I tell them that you are? And God says, I am who I am. I am. You know, Christ says before Abraham was I am. This is his declaration that he's God. I am. And a a great priest friend of mine, father Rutler, once observed that when you know when you're with God, you know who you are. You know your identity. You're you're modernity thinks that you have to leave God and just totally go and make yourself a God, and then you'll be truly yourself. You'll find yourself. That's not true. You become much more yourself, much more perfectly yourself Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: If you do what you're supposed to do and and align yourself with god. And when you when you don't identify yourself with I am, then you're left with this pathetic question, who am I? So you see this obvious demonic influence there. And what struck me too with all of these apparent contradictions, it's anti Christian and also anti Muslim and Jew. It's radically LGBT, but also kind of anti gay. It's anti Trump, kill Trump right now, but it's also got got has all these kind of far right wing slogans. And it reminded me, which is very important to remember, especially in our in our line of work because you're constantly reading all this radical stuff. Speaker 0: Right. Twitter easy explanation. Like, this is a representative of this group or this idea that I already dislike, and now you've confirmed that I have every reason to dislike this group. Speaker 1: I mean, this is the effect Speaker 0: of social media. But this guy, it's like obviously, I'm opposed to the trainee thing passionately, but you realize that demons, which are real they're not under every rock, Speaker 1: but they're real. There there is such a thing as spirits, and they'll they'll try to get you from any angle. They'll try to get if they think they're gonna bang you from the right, they'll get you from the right. If they're gonna get you from the left, they'll get you Speaker 0: from they'll get you from Speaker 1: up or down. Speaker 0: That's right. Speaker 1: All they wanna do is devour you. It's like Lewis and the Screwtape letters. All that just any tactic that will let them get ahold of you. And it's so clear with this guy because you realize this guy was being obsessed from every angle. Speaker 0: Wow. The fact that he drew a picture, and and that is one of the few things I saw from the manifesto, pretty clear rendition too. I mean, he was a decent artist Yeah. Of himself looking in the mirror and a demon staring back at him. I mean, that's like that seems like a page one story. Yes. This guy was possessed or at least influenced by in him with some supernatural force causing him to murder kids. Speaker 1: And think about the the two opposing errors that have led to this just in the last quarter century. In the two thousands, I I remember it vividly because I fell away from faith during this time, there was the new atheism. Materialism, you know, what God's a spaghetti monster. Come on. There's nothing but flesh and blood. We're just, you know, synapses firing. It's a tale told by an idiot signifying nothing. That was one error. Think I that's fallen away. Yeah. And we fell in I Speaker 0: don't think anyone believes that anymore. Speaker 1: No. But now we've fallen into the opposing error, which is to say, actually, the material world has nothing to do with who you really are. Your body your body has nothing to do with who you really are. Your true self is this purely immaterial thing. So if you're a man, you can really be a woman or what have you. And those are those are opposing errors that that oppose the real dignity of the human person who is both spirit, soul, and body. Speaker 0: Once again, something I haven't I hadn't thought of. So we've interesting. Do you think that the fact that people live their lives digitally has allowed them to imagine that the body has no significance? Speaker 1: Precisely. And this is the point that I think a lot of people have not made, which is that, of core the trans ideology is in many ways deader than disco at this point. The Democrats are running away from it. It's it's Speaker 0: Are are they? Speaker 1: I think so. They're downplaying it. It really hurt them in 2024. I think they realized we we we reached peak sexual madness in 2023. You got they at least have to publicly back off. However, how did we get to that place? You could say, well, it begins with feminism. You know, the idea that a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. Men and women are the same. Goes into the LGBT movement, which says men and women are the same. Goes into gay marriage, so called, which says men and women are the same. So two men and two women are the same as a man and woman. Leads into transgenderism. A man can be a woman. Okay. I I see that through line. But just think about the technological aspect. If I live my life on this little portal to hell that's in my pocket It is it is Speaker 0: portal to hell. Speaker 1: Day long, I'm sitting Speaker 0: exactly where it goes. If that's where Speaker 1: I live in my own perception, then my body really doesn't matter that much, does it? I don't you know, I'm not like the biggest, you know, Achilles in the world. Right? I'm not some hulking Adonis. I'm not an athlete, but doesn't really matter. I just live in this virtual world. So is it so crazy to think that your body doesn't matter at that point? I think that's my instinct has Speaker 0: been for the last few years that physical reality does really matter even as I feel like I've had a heightened spiritual awareness and the dead certain knowledge that there is a spiritual an unseen realm that is acting on us all the time, and that that's as real as anything. I sincerely believe that. But on the other hand, I do see a lot of, like, ignoring of the physical reality around us. Speaker 1: Yeah. This is why, by the way you you know how like everyone's becoming Catholic now? Have you noticed this strange phenomenon? Yes. I think this is a big reason why. It's peep the decline in religion has tapered off. Other denominations and traditions are growing, but Catholicism in particular is exploding. Why? I think it's because it's a sacramental theology. Speaker 0: Well, I never would have called that. Speaker 1: Isn't it? Yeah. Twenty years ago, could you imagine? At all. Speaker 0: Certainly No. The spotlight series had just come out, and you're just like, this church is too corrupt to continue. Yeah. And I'm not I just wanna say again, I'm not Catholic, but I strongly agree that there's a revival, and I just see it all around me. Speaker 1: And I think this is why, you know, I mean, the the words at the sacrifice of the mass are, this is my body, which will be given up for you, you know, and which is which is mocked. You know, the phrase hocus pocus, like in magic, is a mockery of hawkastinum corpus meum. This is this is my body. You know? This yeah. It's a kind of a hawk hawkest corpus, hocus hope hocus pocus is a at least that's a popular etymology, and I'm persuaded by it. So there's this there's always this mockery in all of the kind of false religions. There's always this mockery of of the real sacrifice. But in a lot of religious traditions, and I don't cast as Persians, I had a Baptist grandpa. You know, the Knowles has come from Maine, actually. This is the ancestral homeland of the Knowleses. Amazing. Yes. Yeah. I haven't made it up very often, but a lot of Puritan in the line. But I A lot a lot of Speaker 0: us had ancestors in Maine, and it's you know, they left. Speaker 1: It's it's kinda cold. Cold and barren and It Speaker 0: is cold. Speaker 1: Yes. But I think the reason why the sacramental theology is kicking up again is because we say, You know, it's I've been living in a computer for twenty years, and I don't even remember if I'm a man or a woman anymore. But maybe my body really has something to do with who I am. And, actually, maybe this whole religion is about God becoming man and taking on flesh and dwelling among us and broiling fish. I mean, the first the first thing you see our lord doing when he when he comes back, you know, he's resurrecting on the shores of the lake. He's cooking fish for his friends and eating fish. Breakfast. For breakfast, which is a hardcore. Do they do that? It's hardcore. It's only in Japan do they do that. In Maine, it's lobster. But but there's brook Speaker 0: trout, actually. People eat them from Speaker 1: with big beans. I think that's why. I think there's just and and COVID ties into this too. Because during COVID, you were told your grandma has to die alone, and you can't see her. You can't go to Christmas. She has to die alone in a hospital bed. If you're lucky, you can say goodbye on Zoom. And people recoil recoil against that because it's just contrary to human nature. You know? Human beings are we're like the the the angels in one way because we have reason. We have intellect and will, and spirits are, you know, that don't have bodies. But we're like the animals in another way. The animals don't have intellect and will. They have instinct and appetite, but their their bodies. You know? And and we're we're kind of in the middle of those two things. And you can't ignore the you can only ignore the body for so long before people say, no. You know, I'm a man, actually. Believe it or not, even in even in modernity, I'm a man. I wanna I wanna do stuff.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:13 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Michael Knowles on His Relationship With Candace Owens Since She Left the Daily Wire https://t.co/ADJpCYfllc

Video Transcript AI Summary
Viewer questions lead to a Candace Owens discussion: 'I'm the godfather to Candace's daughter.' They note Candace converted to Catholicism and they still see her at church. A stranger asked, 'Tucker Carlson? Yes. You know Candace Owens? I was like, yes. He goes, tell her that I love her.' They discuss converts, especially young people, and say 'everything' changes about their views. They argue history for Western civilization matters—'cult and culture come from the same root word'—and quote Belloc: 'one proof of its divine institution is that no other group conducted with such knavish imbecility would have lasted a fortnight.' They touch on Pope Francis, fallibility, and 'Don't be defensive' in conversations. They connect politics to culture, noting 'the rise of Trump.' They argue 'greed, avarice, is the beginning of evils in the city' and 'money is the root of all evil,' finishing that 'we get the government we deserve.'
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: So we have a couple viewer questions. We've never done this before, but, you know, it's Speaker 1: the Internet. I'm in. Okay. Lots of Speaker 0: people ask this one, my producer said. Michael Knowles, do you miss working with Candace Owens? Speaker 1: Well, know, I I still see Candace all the time. You know, I'm the godfather to Candace's daughter. Did she Actually? Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm the godfather to Candace's daughter. I'm very good friends with her husband, and I know, it's kinda weird for a to kinda hang out with. Yeah, We're have many Mayflower cigars Yeah. You know, over over the time. And and I still I don't see Candace at work obviously anymore, but I do see her at church. She actually goes to the earlier mass than I do because she she converted. You know, she came into the church like a year or something ago. And in fact, I was the godfather to her daughter before she came into the church. And then all those smells and bells just kept pulling her in. And there was there was one time I was invited to the baptism of their next kid, and I just couldn't make it. It was I was visiting my grandma or something. And people kept telling me, like, no. You should really come. I was like, no. Look. I mean, I love love the former family, but I'm gotta go see my granny, whatever. You know? And they kept I said, what's this about? I don't know. They have, like, a kid every six months, so, like, they'll have another one soon. And but but then I thought it was because she was being baptized, and she wasn't telling anybody. So, anyway, she came in, and now at least now at least I get to see her at at mass. So People love her. It is wild. She has actual star quality. I she has this thing. It she could tell me something. She could tell me something not only that I don't agree with, she could tell me something about myself that like, she told me I have blonde hair, and I would I would just the whole time, I'd just be like, go on. Tell me everything. Wild. I mean, Speaker 0: I I was telling this off here, but I was gonna say it. I was in Oslo, Norway last week salmon fishing with my kids, and I'm coming walking back from dinner with one of my kids in Downtown Oslo, and this guy goes, Tucker Carlson? Yes. You know Candace Owens? I was like, yes. He goes, tell her that I love her. And I was like, how famous do you have to be where people will come up to you in the street just because you know somebody else? Speaker 1: Where people will come up to another very famous guy. No. Nothing to do Speaker 0: with me at all. Speaker 1: Bear you say, oh, hey. You know, hi. I'm Tucker, by the way. Speaker 0: Do you I No. I was so impressed by it that I it didn't hurt my feelings at all. I you know? That is unbelievable. Yes. The main thing that he liked about me was that I knew Candace Owens. I was like, wow. That that's devotion. So I was impressed. Fair I I called her. I said, wow, man. You're really at another level. Speaker 1: Gotta start trying that at restaurants. Can I hey? Can I get a free dessert or something? Speaker 0: I know. I know Candace. No. Come on. Not my birthday, but all these young people are becoming Catholic of all unfashionable things. Looks like that's probably the most unfashionable. You know? But by the standards of thirty years ago, becoming a Catholic Crazy. It's crazy. It's insane. Speaker 1: Yeah. This is why I think, you know, the the vice president is probably the most famous convert in recent years. And and people his political enemies are always saying, oh, he's cynical. He's just changing his views with the times or whatever. I think hold on. You're telling me a guy who had a tough upbringing, who graduates Yale Law School, wants to is in Silicon Valley, then goes back. He wants to launch a political career in Ohio. The way he thinks he's gonna do that is by becoming Catholic? You think that's gonna help you? Or no. It'd be that's like the craziest thing to do if if you were thinking cynically or opportunistically. Well, it's a radical move, Speaker 0: I guess. And, again, I'm not promoting it. I'm not doing it. But I just as an observer, I'm like, wow. That's pretty wild. So I guess here's my question. It's a primal question. If people if young people are converting to Catholicism, like, what else about their views is changing? Speaker 1: Everything. Speaker 0: Okay. Everything. So that's my sense. Speaker 1: Well, on the political level, and I think this also touches on part of the conversions, we're beginning to realize that history didn't start in 1965. History didn't start in 1865. History didn't start in 1776 or even 1620. We're part of something that's much bigger and much broader and much more beautiful. You know? And even just in our political order, we used to call it Christendom. Now we call it the West, and there has has been an attack on that. Going back many decades now, I think of Jesse Jackson marching down Stanford, hey. Hey. Ho ho. Western Civ has got to go. And and people are beginning to realize, you know, it's not that I just wanna preserve my town or my nineties liberalism or my what? I wanna preserve this great cultural patrimony that I've I've been given. And that cultural patrimony has to go deeper than than just aesthetics. And it has to go deeper than just abstract ideology. Know, cult and culture come from the same root word. So what what you worship is going to define your culture. And so what's the what's the bottom? What's the foundation? What's the ballast for all of that? I think people, you know, even beyond questions of conviction of the holy spirit and rational arguments and all that, they're just saying, well, you know, this thing's pretty sturdy. It's been around a long time. Belock, again, Belock keeps coming to mind. He had this line. He says, I am he said it more eloquently. He said, I'm required as a matter of faith to hold that the church is divinely instituted. But for those who doubt it, one proof of its divine institution is that no other group conducted with such knavish imbecility would have lasted a fortnight. I know that. Obviously true. Yeah. The best thing Speaker 0: I ever heard from a practicing Catholic in the last five years, was there was no one around. Was a very close friend of mine, I and he was going on about Catholicism. I was like, okay. But that pope is just I just can't I won't even tell you what I said, but it was hostile because that's how I felt. And he goes Speaker 1: Are you sure you're not Catholic? Yeah. Yeah. No. That's it was the greatest Speaker 0: thing ever. He goes, yeah. I totally agree. But he's not the worst pope we've had. Yes. Was it completely nondefensive? This happens? Speaker 1: It's like the let me tell you about the ninth century. Speaker 0: Well, it's something we've talking I think that's right. If you wanna win people over, don't be defensive. Yes. Totally. Don't tell me that there's no that what I'm seeing isn't real. Yeah. Yeah. Be honest. Speaker 1: Of course. Of course. I mean, it Speaker 0: is Okay. But I I don't know that I've talked to too many Catholics about Catholicism. Maybe they all feel that way, but I thought that was just a wonderful response. Speaker 1: Totally. You know, the we we have to remember that the pope is fallible except when he's infallible. And sometimes, sometimes God gives us bad popes to make us really grateful for good popes. And the other point I'll mention on Francis because, you know, obviously, had some questions about the Francis pontificate. Yeah. I reverted during the Francis pontificate. This trend started during Francis. Yes. It might have been in in reaction against many of the things that Pope Francis was said to stand for. I don't know exactly how it worked. That's above my pay grade. But that's you think of, like, the progress of the church and our whole civilization, and we think of it as just like a straight line. But it's I think it's a little bit more kinda like this, you know, and the papacy goes to Avignon for a little bit, and there's some king is, like, arresting the pope. And, you know, it's, like, kind of a little bit more circuitous, but it's always pointed in the same direction. Speaker 0: So there's not it just reminds me of God using pharaoh, blinding pharaoh to the truth in order to save the Jews from slavery Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 0: Which is what's described. And I always imagine that there's a direct line between the quality of the leadership and the and the quality of the people. Speaker 1: Of course. This is why I Speaker 0: can't that's get not always true. So as America becomes more prosperous, the people become weaker and sillier. Yes. I mean, that's how I grew up. I grew up in the, you know, richest country in history, and but there was a steady decline in the quality of of thinking, certainly, and of behavior. Speaker 1: And of leadership. And of leadership. Yeah. I mean, was it a is it h g Wells who said democracy is the theory that was it? No. I don't know. Who was it? Forget who it was. Who said democracy is the theory that the common people know what do you what they want and deserve to get it good and hard? This is why I can't get into I have many I I love the populist movement. I was so into the rise of Trump. I remain into the rise of Trump. I think this has been the the healthiest political awakening in my lifetime. Speaker 0: I think I'm all about it. Speaker 1: But I can't I can't throw too many stones merely at the leadership class because, one, the civil authority is there for our own good. It's it's, in that way, appointed by God in a certain sense. And, also, we kind of get the government that we deserve. And if you don't know anything about your country and you don't care about your civic life and you're just gonna be greedy, you're either gonna, on the left side of things, just indulge in weird social stuff that's purely selfish. And on the right side of things, get engaged in economic selfishness, and no one cares about the common good, and no one cares about the body politic, Speaker 0: then That's kind of where Speaker 1: we are right there. Yes. And you're gonna get crappy leadership a lot of the time. And sometimes you get a you sometimes you get a second chance. Speaker 0: So it's just like greed and greed and lust those your choices? Speaker 1: Yes. And this look. This is this is classic political philosophy going all the way back, which is that greed, avarice, is the beginning of evils in the city. And it's natural, Speaker 0: and you you have to Dorsheb with money is the root of all evil. Speaker 1: Yes. That's right.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:13 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Tucker Addresses the Viral Rumors About Donald Trump Being Dead https://t.co/ZqvjsdFDqF

Video Transcript AI Summary
Trump is not an ideologue; he ascribes to "Trumpism" or "Americanism" and has "brought together a disparate coalition" and "won the popular vote for the first time in twenty years as a Republican" with a "vision" and "force of nature." The dialogue notes anxiety about a reprieve from "crazy" politics and questions succession, with "JD Vance" and, "Rubio's done a great job in the 15 jobs that he's doing in the admin. At least 15," and "I frankly hope you never run for another office because I want you to do this for the rest of your life." Trump drops provocative lines: "Israel lobbies totally control congress like nobody else," and in Netanyahu’s presence, "The United States is gonna take over Gaza"—"a big Trump casino there" and "the Riviera Of The Middle East." In a cabinet exchange, he cites a "'definitive conclusion' to the war," then says, "we're taking it" and seeks "some modicum of political order" and preservation of holy sites. The Gaza options include "'Israel take over Gaza,' 'Arab League take over,' or 'ship all of the residents to South Sudan'"—to achieve "some semblance of peace" rather than a permanent solution. He argues that "the purpose of empire is to just have peace and order" and that "we're not suited for this at all" due to lacking "self confidence" and an "evangelical spirit," a critique of neocons who would "turn Baghdad into Belgium."
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: This is what I love about Trump. Is Trump is Trump an ideologue? No. Do you what what kind of ism does Trump ascribe to? Trumpism. Trump Trump that's what he ascribes to. Americanism, I guess. I don't know. This is a man who has brought together a disparate coalition of, like, weirdo crunchy hippies and bow tie wearing traditionalists and libertarians and Silicon Valley tech futurists. And, like, it's the craziest coalition ever. Yes. And he has brought them together and won the popular vote for the first time in twenty years as a Republican. And it's it's an amazing thing to see in action because he's got a vision, and he's just a force of nature. And so the question, I think, on a lot of our minds now I think this is what all this Trump is dead discourse is about. There's this viral meme that Trump died because he got a bruise on his hand or something. He went to play golf one day. They said he was dead. Speaker 1: No. He's still around. Speaker 0: He's around. Speaker 1: He's not verified there. Yes. You know, he's still around. Speaker 0: And I think a lot of that is an anxiety of, wow. We got this reprieve from all the craziness and all the decay and all the division, and we were actually we won the popular vote. You know? Things are on track. And what happens next? When the patriarch's gone? Well, Speaker 1: I mean, you know, what happens in families when the Yeah. It can be really hard. Yes. It can be really hard. I I have a lot of confidence in JD Vance. Speaker 0: Yes. I think he's quite clearly at this point set up the vice president as the successor. Speaker 1: I hope that's right. Speaker 0: It seems like in the cabinet meeting the other day, he said, look. Rubio's done a a great job in the 15 jobs that he's doing in the admin. At least. At least 15. And but he said in the cabinet meeting the other day, and I noticed it, and I no one no one around me seemed to have heard this line. He goes, everyone's talking about what a great job Rubio was doing. And he said, wow, Marco, you've you've just been amazing. I frankly hope you never run for another office because I want you to do this for the rest of your life. And I said, well, that that seems like a way if those are the two most not pop abulae. They're most like presidential abulae, you know, of the for 2028. So that seems like he's saying no. He's the vice president is my natural successor. Speaker 1: Trump drops these bombs in every conversation you have with him. I I don't I don't inter I haven't interviewed him that many times because it's so difficult. Dizzying? Dizzying because he does the weave famously. But every time I've interviewed him, like, three days later, I'll think, what did he just say that right in the middle of the right? Yes. Yesterday, he was doing an interview with The Daily Caller. Right in the of the interview, was talking about Israel, and I love Israel, and I've no one's done more for Israel than I've done. And, you know, rooting for Israel. He's very pro Israel, of course. And then he goes Speaker 0: They used to own congress or whatever. Speaker 1: He said that. And he goes, you know, the Israel lobbies totally control congress like nobody else. That's not Speaker 0: true anymore. I'm like, Speaker 1: did you just say that? Speaker 0: Yeah. It was you I mean, I remember in the Speaker 1: Wait. What? Speaker 0: The interview or the press conference with Netanyahu. This was months ago. And I I don't think I was taken in by theatricality. I think this was real when he said, and look. What we're gonna do is The United States is gonna take over Gaza. And you look at Netanyahu, and he sort of he looks at Trump. He kind of looks nervously at the audience. He's kind of laughing, but kind of not laughing. And he's like, what is it? He goes, we're gonna take over Gaza. We're gonna build a big Trump casino there or whatever. I don't know what he's gonna do. You know? Hey. We're gonna build it. It's gonna be beautiful. It's gonna be the Riviera Of The Middle East. And it was it was it was so apparently out of left field. And I'm not even convinced he's totally sincere on that. I think he's a great negotiator, and he's working other ranks. Speaker 1: It was weird. I was actually in The Middle East that day when that happened, and I was eating with a bunch of, you know, local residents who run the government in the country I was in. And I'm like, did what? You know? And I was actually sitting at the table and they played that. Everyone's staring at this. And I thought, I don't know what the hell is that? Yes. Speaker 0: What what do we have to Speaker 1: do with Gaza? Like, my instinct is always like, we had nothing to do with this. Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. I'm out. I'm good. Speaker 1: You know, it's like when girls fight. Like, I don't wanna get involved. Speaker 0: I'll take Monica. I'll take the French Riviera. I don't need the Gaza Riviera. That's exactly right. But Speaker 1: their reaction was is I have no idea if this is true or not, but it was so interesting. They're sophisticated, very sophisticated. And they're like, oh, no. That's an attack on Netanyahu. Yes. That was their gut reaction. He's basically tweaking that niani. It wasn't it wasn't a a, Speaker 0: you know, a haymaker. Speaker 1: It wasn't a niani. Speaker 0: He wasn't clobbering on that. It was a little poke. And I think So you think that too? Yes. I think it was a little poke. Speaker 1: In what way? Speaker 0: In the sense that it's in the cabinet meeting the other day, Trump was asked. He said, you promised that this war would be over permanently in five seconds after you were inaugurated. And so when are we gonna get a definitive conclusion to the war? And he laughs. Definitive. A definitive conclusion. He turns to Steve Wickoff. He says, hey, Steve. How long this this this conflict, this has been going on thousands of years, is it? Yeah. There's no definitive conclusion. We're just trying to stop the bloodshed. We're trying to establish some kind of peace. And it's this brilliant move because in what other way are you going to get the Israelis and the Arab League and the and the Iranian regime all united in not liking this one plan is by suggesting we're gonna go in and take it. And and so, you know, it's it's a it's a basically an intractable situation. There will not be any permanent resolution probably until the second coming. So what you wanna do is just establish some modicum of political order. What I would especially like to see happen is a preservation of the holy sites and, you know, pilgrimage access and all that. But you Speaker 1: just demand that. I mean, that's not even it's like no one owns Jerusalem. Sorry. Speaker 0: Yeah. Of course. But there's easier said than done in a messy neck of the woods. Speaker 1: When you're paying for it, you can just be like, look. Our first demand is Christians seem to be able to visit the church holy sepulchre. Speaker 0: So Of course. Speaker 1: Of course. Speaker 0: Well, you know, I don't know. I don't know. It it seems to me that the the holy sites still seem to be okay. In Gaza, there was unfortunately the attack on Saint Porphyrias, which I I grant was accidental. I don't think it was I I don't I don't see why from a strategic perspective it would be beneficial to the Israelis to, like, particularly stick a finger in the eye of the Christians when America is your last political protector. Speaker 1: A lot of it. I don't know. I don't understand it. I think it's self destructive behavior, but but what I care about is the effect on Christians, and it's just not not good at all. Speaker 0: Well and you you have to ask yourself too. Okay. What's the conclusion? You could either have the state of Israel take over Gaza again. Had Gaza from what? '67 until o five, then just gave it away in o five. Hamas gets elected. Hamas runs it for a little bit. And then there's the October. Israel's gonna say now, okay. This is an unacceptable security risk. We're not dealing with this anymore. So you could have Israel take it over. That's going to be probably an unsatisfactory resolution. You could have the Arab League take it over, some of Egypt take it over. I don't I don't know that they really wanna do it. No one wants to touch that hot potato. You could have and then Trump just drops out of the air. And he says, yeah. We're taking it. And we're gonna develop condominiums, and we're gonna ship all of the residents to South Sudan that was floated, I think, in the Israeli government. South Sudan, the one place on earth that's less pleasant than Gaza. And I don't think that's gonna work out well at all. And and what what is I think Trump is totally sincere in what he says. He goes, my solution here is not some permanent answer that will totally make the Israelis happy and totally irritate all the Arabs and the Persians. My answer is not gonna totally make the Israelis unhappy and totally satisfy Egypt or whatever, the Arab League. It's I just want some semblance of peace, which is where I I feel totally vindicated on this. I've said for years, when everyone is calling Trump the n word you know, always call him the n word? A nationalist? Oh, yeah. Always. They call him the n word. And I said, I don't really think he's a nationalist. He loves the nation. He's a great patriot. He supports strong borders. I said, I don't think he's really a nationalist. I think he's kind of an imperialist. He wants to acquire Greenland and invade Canada. I I don't think that's not generally what, like, yeoman farmers do in some no. Speaker 1: No. That's a Teddy Roosevelt move. Speaker 0: Yes. I think his vision of America first is that America will take due care to prioritize her national interests, part of which is accepting the political reality that we're the global hegemon, and we need to maintain some modicum of world order. And this goes back to the really a really ancient conception of the political order, which is that the purpose of empire is to just have peace and order. This is, you know, this is in the Aeneid, in book six of the Aeneid. Aeneas goes down to his dad in the underworld, and and the dad gives him this whole view of what's gonna happen to Rome. And he says, you know, look. Different peoples are given different arts. The I don't know. The Greeks are good at making soufflaki. The the Chinese are good at making bad soup. And the Romans awful soup. Awful. I I've not you know, I've I've never even tried the pangolin is good, I've never tried the And he says the Romans, their art is to govern. And it's it's not governing is not, like, fun. It's not the most glorious necessarily thing. You know? In some ways, it'd be more fun to be a writer, be more fun to be a poet, be more fun to go. But that's what the Romans are given is to govern. And it's just a job in the world, and someone's gotta do it. And you just need to establish relative peace and protect the rights of nations and just keep on keeping on. Speaker 1: Do you think we're suited for that? Speaker 0: I think I think Trump is quite suited for it as a as an individual, as a national leader. Is America suited for it? That's not how we started. We weren't we weren't looking for it when the country began, Speaker 1: but we we got it. I mean, I I totally agree. Someone's gotta be dad. I mean, that is absolutely just the nature of man, and there's no getting around it. In shirking, it doesn't make it go away. So I completely agree with that. That's where I do agree with the neocons, I guess. Kind of. Yeah. Speaker 0: But but in a different way. Like because the neocons, at at their most extreme, would say we have an obligation because of the demands of history with a capital h to spread liberal democracy around the world. It's fine Speaker 1: for stupid. Speaker 0: It's crazy. Speaker 1: But, like, the smart like, I remember David Brooks, who was impressive. I know it's hard to believe, but at one point, when I knew him thirty years ago, he was smart. And he he would say, look. You know, someone's gotta take control because there has to be order at the center. And I that's not stupid. Where I began to really hate the neocons, where my whole politics began to revolve around opposing them as an ideology, not as not as individuals, but just the idea is bad. Some of Speaker 0: the individuals. Some of them. Yeah. Well, yeah. John Padaras. Speaker 1: But no. It's when I went Speaker 0: to Iraq. And the Speaker 1: main takeaway for me is we're not good at it. Yeah. We're just, like, leaving aside the dumb spread democracy and all that nonsense, turn Baghdad into Belgium. It's stupid. But what's not stupid is the idea that you can't have disorder because it metastasizes. And I'm getting there. My assessment, and has not changed in twenty five years, is we're just not we're not suited for this at all because we don't have the self confidence required to do it because our society at its core is really thin. There's nothing really there, actually, other than some distorted version of capitalism, which is kind of disgusting actually. Speaker 0: Do you do you think that was true, say, in the fifties and sixties, and it's changed? Or I think the fight you know, the Cold War, Speaker 1: the battle against the Soviets gave a kind of clarity and purpose. Yeah. But even then, you know, The US sided with the Viet Minh, actually Yeah. In 1954 at Dian Bien Phu against the French. Like, there was never really a kind of consistent that's Yeah. Little But not even grand strategy, but, like, a consistent worldview or instinct. Like, the English, for all their many faults at the height of empire, the height of the Victorian period, like, they really believed they were superior. Now we derive that as racist, but you have to have that. You have to believe my way is the better way, or why are we doing this in the first place? To extract minerals? Like, that's not over time, people can't sustain that. You really have to have an evangelical spirit, and we don't have that.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:13 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

“That Would Be F*ckin Crazy” - The One Foreign Policy Shift That Could Change Everything https://t.co/DvI85X6BNK

Video Transcript AI Summary
On a press guidance Tuesday, the team addressed Speaker Johnson visiting the settlements in the West Bank and prepared a line: "we support stability in the West Bank." The conversation noted that sounding "stability" could be read as critique of Israel. The transcript also cites "the US government is against extending condolences to the families of noncombatants killed" and that the US is "also now in favor of the forced movement of large populations outside." It then discusses "equities" with Embassy Jerusalem; David Milstein—senior adviser to Ambassador Huckabee, reportedly Ted Cruz staffer and Mark Levin's stepson—would pop into docs and push edits. Milstein allegedly changed the line to "we commend speaker Johnson for visiting Judea And Samaria," a phrase tied to "Israel's land grab of the West Bank" and erasing Palestinian legitimacy. He would "call around the building" to push drafts; policy comes from DC.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: It was a Tuesday, so that's a press guidance day of all the sample questions. It was actually arguably We said OBE, which meant overcome by events, which means that we're beyond its But it still could have come up, so I left it in there, was a reaction to Speaker Johnson visiting the settlements in the West Speaker 1: Bank. And Speaker 0: I had a line, pretty standard and kind of not very specific, but it said, we support stability in the West Bank. Stability? Yeah. We support stability. That's all. Last piece was comma, which helps secure Israel, right? But I think the stable comment was, I don't know, too much? Because if we say we want a stable West Bank, are we accidentally being critical of something Speaker Johnson or Israel is doing, right? Speaker 1: What is that? Flesh that out if you don't mind. Sure. I know what you're saying, but I'm not sure Yeah. Everyone Speaker 0: It's a good question. Speaker 1: So So why would the US government So the US government is against extending condolences to the families of noncombatants killed. Speaker 0: Correct. Okay. Correct. Speaker 1: And the US government is also now in favor of the forced movement of large populations Speaker 0: outside Right? Speaker 1: And now you're saying the US government is against stability? Right. How are we against stability? Why is stability a bad thing? Speaker 0: Now, stability is a word that's used a lot, and we are on paper saying we support stability in the region all the time. But in this specific context, when discussing settlements, it will sound like we're critiquing Israel indirectly by saying we support stability in reaction to a question about settlements. Right? So that was how I interpreted the issue. Speaker 1: So in other words, that would you might be suggesting that the US government opposes radical demographic change in the West Right. Speaker 0: Now I have this line, again, just like the forced displacement. It had it cleared previously. But this is where what was discussed when this first broke of my firing in the Washington Post was that senior officials from Embassy Jerusalem, David Milstein specifically, would occasionally pop into my docs. Now, didn't happen every single day. Pop into your docs. Like at a Google doc, right? Or it wasn't a Google doc, it was, I don't know, the brand doesn't matter. But some internal system. An internal system. I would share it with, in the morning, the equities I was mentioning, one of the equities is Embassy Jerusalem. Speaker 1: Okay. So an equity just for state department speak. People haven't heard it. Tell us what an equity is. Speaker 0: It's like Someone has some stake in those lines. Okay. And embassy Jerusalem does, obviously, because they're the Speaker 1: ones that are US Embassy in Jerusalem. Speaker 0: The US Embassy in Jerusalem. Speaker 1: American diplomats posted to Israel. Speaker 0: On those press briefing days, I would share it with them for them to review the document and be like, okay, these are our press lines for these sample questions. Are you okay with them? Now, it was interesting because they often did not clear they didn't reject it, and they just with a non response, because the press officers there would defer up the chain to David Milstein and Ambassador Huckabee, because they didn't want to put their name on it. Because if it's something they didn't like, no one wants their name on a press guidance that wasn't approved by these influential people. Speaker 1: Who is David Milstein? Speaker 0: He is the senior adviser to Ambassador Huckabee. Speaker 1: And what's his how old is he? What's his background? Is he a career diplomat? Speaker 0: From my understanding, he's a political. I believe he worked on the Hill. Speaker 1: Oh, did he work for Ted Cruz? Yes. Yes, he worked for Ted Cruz. Speaker 0: Okay. And he is the stepson of your best friend, Mark Levin. Speaker 1: He's Mark Levin's stepson? Yeah. He's working at the State Department? Correct. Interesting. So David Milstein is a political guy working now for Mike Huckabee in Jerusalem, and he was going through your lines. Correct. Okay. Speaker 0: Now, on paper, he could be, but the way that he would edit my docs as aggressively as he would, and we can get into this, but the other statements and pieces that were reported in the Washington Post, he would push a certain agenda that was very aligned with Israel that I found very problematic. Now, in this specific example, because we're discussing the third example of why I was fired, was that he changed the stability line to we commend speaker Johnson for visiting Judea And Samaria. We, as a government What's Judea And Samaria? It's a term that religious. It's about Israel's land grab of the West Bank. Speaker 1: Are Judea And Samaria administrative districts? No. It's not Is there a mayor of Samaria? Speaker 0: Nope. Doesn't exist. Okay. Speaker 1: So there's no actual place called Judea And Samaria? The civil authorities don't recognize Judea or Samaria. Speaker 0: Nope. Okay. Nope. It's the more extreme wing of the elements of the Israeli government, and David Milstein was in line with that language. And it's designed to erase any Palestinian legitimacy that this is supposed to Speaker 1: be So the point is Israeli by using those terms, they're biblical terms, they refer to regions described in what Christians call the Old Testament. And the point is to remind everybody that this land was promised by God to the Jewish peoples, Hebrew people, and that, you know, anyone who's lived there subsequently for the last three thousand years has no right to it. Right. That's the that's that's the point. But I but from a sort of government perspective, Judea and Samaria are not real places, in that they're not Not recognized. Not nation states, they're not provinces, they're And not Speaker 0: Do they have clearly defined borders? Not for my understanding. I mean, they do not. And that would would give you that opens the door. Speaker 1: Oh, fuck. Speaker 0: It opens the door to more land grabs. You know? It's Speaker 1: it's Okay. But if a place doesn't have a clearly defined border, then how can the US government refer to it in any kind of official capacity? Speaker 0: They can. They can. It's scary too because we look at the airstrikes that Israel is doing in Syria, and they're building settlements even outside the Golan Heights, it's all part of this, I don't know what it is, this idea of a greater Israel that people are discussing that was beyond these borders. So it's scary, and against the stability of the region that we've been calling for as a government for decades. So certainly in Speaker 1: the modern era, definitely since the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, you know, you've had clear borders between countries. In fact, we're fighting a war against Russia right now on on the the premise that they violated those borders by moving into Eastern Ukraine. So, like, the US government takes borders very seriously, obviously, not including our own. But as a matter of, like, statecraft and diplomacy, that really, really matters. So you would never use a phrase in an official communication that referred to a place whose territory you couldn't define. That would be 100%. Crazy to do something like that. Speaker 0: A 100%. Speaker 1: Okay. You think this Milstein guy who is Mark Levin's stepson, you say it's almost like you're making this up, it's like a joke, who worked for Ted Cruz in the Senate, he added this to the statement. Correct. And then did it Speaker 0: go out? So from that point, I cut it because I had accepted most of his edits in the document because going to battle with him was a whole headache because he'll call, he'll push certain things. He was known for doing that. David Miltstein phone call was not a favorite thing for folks. Speaker 1: What was it like? Tell us, those of us who don't work, with Mark Liven's stepson at the station. Speaker 0: Sure. So he would call and he would just push, like, why was that removed? Or why was XYZ done? Very often, and if you said no, there was a tendency to go up the chain in order for him to push the agenda of any given day. And this is something that I dealt with since very early. Speaker 1: Where is his okay. So is he the DCM, Speaker 0: or Nope. What's He's just a senior adviser to ambassador Huckabee. Speaker 1: He's like an assistant to the US ambassador to Israel. Speaker 0: Correct. He sticking with the public reporting from Washington Post, he would push in one in one Caucasian statements that were in the voice of secretary Rubio, not even a spokesperson. And he drafted them. He would push them through and be like, I Speaker 1: want this statement out. I want this statement out? Speaker 0: Yeah. He would go through and be like, I drafted this. This is the statement I want. I would go through the process of clearing it, but he would fight for it. He'd be in the document getting in arguments with people one by one in order to kind of overwhelm the process and get certain his agenda out there the way he wanted. And it's very difficult. Speaker 1: You didn't stop On what authority? I mean, that's pretty cheeky behavior for a guy who's an aide to Mike Huckabee, a former cable news host. Speaker 0: Calling around the building, and and and it it it was very consistent. What? And persistent. Speaker 1: But he lives in Jerusalem. Speaker 0: He does. Speaker 1: What do you mean Speaker 0: call around? And policy comes from DC. Like, this is obviously of influence and they have discussions, but the policy comes from DC. So if you What do Speaker 1: mean call around? How do He Speaker 0: would go up he would go either laterally or up the chain and call various people and say, hey, ambassador Huckabee, you'll cite Huckabee usually, and say, wants this done, or in for x y z reason, and if that person didn't pick up, it would go to the next person. Even if I we're discussing equities earlier. If one particular equity said, we can't do this, then he would go up, well, I don't care, because this guy above you may clear it. Speaker 1: What? And how does he have everyone's number? Speaker 0: That was that's what I was wondering. I don't know.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:10 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Tucker Calls Out Mark Cuban to His Face, Leaves Him Speechless https://t.co/VHSCTKoQoJ

Video Transcript AI Summary
Debate on sending money to Ukraine centers on perceived need: "Man, they need it." and "None." One speaker adds, "Forcing other people to help is not charity." The panel notes a shift in military aid: "All the weapons were on loan lease. We're getting it back," and claim that "our dear president Trump has negotiated that we own half the minerals." Federal spending is questioned: deficits at "six and a half percent of GDP," concerns about "printing money," and that "The Federal Reserve has to buy all the treasuries" as well as the idea that "laws that were written in the sixties that are still in place don't apply now." On finance and technology, one person says, "I own a shit ton of Bitcoin," and discusses "AI as a service" and reducing human roles. They ask, "What kind of society do you want?" advocating property rights: "I want to live in a society where people live in single family homes with little lawns that they own."
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: What's your take on whether we should be sending money to Ukraine or not? Were you in favor of that? Speaker 1: Man, they need it. Speaker 2: I mean, honestly Don't audit. I don't have a good answer. You know, I can make an argument both ways, and half my family is Ukrainian on my from my grandparents. And so, you know, personally, I think we should help, but I don't have a study to answer for you. Speaker 1: Have you how much money have you sent to Ukraine? Speaker 2: None. Speaker 1: Oh, so what do you mean by we? You're the one whose family's from Ukraine. Like, why don't you send them a billion dollars? Speaker 2: Because I'm trying to fix health care. Speaker 1: Why don't you fix their health care if you're like so deep? If you think we need to help, why don't you start? How about you first? Yeah. I noticed that's never like even an option for anybody. It's like, we need to help. That's not what charity is. Forcing other people to help is not charity. Speaker 3: Here's the good news. The good news is all the weapons were on loan lease. We're getting it back. And Right. Our dear president Trump has negotiated that we own half the minerals. So, he turned this horrible Speaker 1: Into a Speaker 3: profit war center. Into a profit center, which is one of his unique gifts. I think we can all agree. Speaker 4: Go ahead. Can can I can I just follow-up on the like the another alternative root cause and I've harped on this a lot, federal spending? Ultimately, if the federal deficit remains as it is, six and a half percent of GDP, we're printing money. The Federal Reserve has to buy all the treasuries to fund the the That money printing and all of those inefficient programs for lending, for housing, lending for student loans, spending on stuff that has no ROI etcetera etcetera ultimately leads to inflation and leads to everything becoming unaffordable. Is it not an option? How much do you both care about or think about reining in the federal spending and having those kind of pointed conversations about the importance of this and Speaker 3: Go ahead, Tucker. Speaker 4: You look Speaker 1: back I mean, I think about it a lot. I think about the devaluation of the dollar. I think about just not worth as much. And I know that in my own I'm not an investor. I don't invest in anything. But in the things that I buy with an eye to retaining value, they're physical things. I just don't believe in any Speaker 4: of this Yeah. Speaker 1: At all. And so I I caught myself the other day, and I I'm at such a low sort of level compared to everyone else here. I'm not especially rich, but, like, I had a little bit of extra money. And I'm like, it really was like the Weimar impulse. Like, shit. Gotta buy something soon before Speaker 4: it looks Before the dollar's worth less. Yeah. I mean, everyone Don't knock. Speaker 1: Everyone I know, and I live in a very rural area, and I most of my friends are crazy, but people I know are thinking in terms of, like, land, gold, ammo. Like, I don't think that water I don't think that's no. I mean, are you really laughing? Yeah. Are you tittering nervously? Because you know that's not insane. Speaker 4: That's right. Right. Speaker 2: I own a shit ton of Bitcoin, first and foremost. Right? A kind of a kind of a hedge and have probably five years now. Yep. But we do need to cut costs, and I'm hoping AI is a a path there. You know, government as a service, AI as a service, reducing the number of people it takes to get things done, understanding that laws that were written in the six and this is kind of the abundance thing. Right? Laws that were written in the sixties that are still in place don't apply now. It's kinda like the government version of the innovator's dilemma. We have to modify things that are in place already so we can start to optimize. And I think we haven't done that in a long, long time, and I don't think it's we're in the process of changing that right now. Speaker 1: But may I ask and I'm not against anything you said. I mean Okay. I'm for technocratic solutions to moral problems too, but I wonder just kidding. I'm wondering what the aim is. It seems project, like, begin by articulating your goal Right. Which is like one thing America is super bad at. So if you wanna get to the moon, say so. And then if you don't get there, just fake it or whatever like we did. But but it begins with, again, kidding. But it begins with saying what the goal is. Like, what kind of society do you want? No. But you never I'm not attacking you at all. I do think you should money to Ukraine, but I I think it's we're all at fault. It's all like, well, how can we do this more efficiently? Well, do what? Like, in the end, I wanna live in a society where people live in single family homes with little lawns that they own that are not gonna be taken away from them like actual property rights, not theoretical properties. It's like my house. Okay? I want married people, and I want them to have children and grandchildren with the rough assurance, the future of course being fundamentally unknown, but rough assurance that like, it'll kind of be the same. Radical change all the time drives people insane. Yeah. But it's not radical change to do It's not radical change, dude. Speaker 2: I grew Speaker 1: up in this city. I don't recognize it. I'm only 56. That's radical change. Speaker 2: What? You're talking about Los Angeles? Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, what is this? Speaker 2: Look. You can go in any any decade, any generation. Speaker 3: Don't Rick Cruz says No. Speaker 1: There's never been right. There has never been population okay. Then I'll I dare you then, because I know you're a historian. Give me another example other than the mass rape by the Mongols of population change like what we've seen in the West over the past fifty years. You can't because there isn't one in all recorded history. So you can be for it or against it, but you can't say there's a question. Speaker 2: Their own questions. Speaker 1: I don't get what talking answer. I just answer my own questions. Speaker 3: Yep. Speaker 1: This is a monologue posing as a colloquy. Let me Okay. Let let me Speaker 3: bring us to AI job displacement. It's been a big debate we've been having on the pod. We all know that AI is going to replace a large number of jobs. Speaker 1: Do we know that? Speaker 3: I don't self driving car replaces four or five drivers, full time positions. That's industry different jobs. Well, okay. We're gonna get to that. But for our guests, do you think we're gonna have a job displacement that could be acute and how should we handle that? Because we're we're seeing people make Optimus robots. The idea that any human's gonna be in a factory sorting things and all the factories we're making today are designed explicitly to not have humans in it. We may be talking about bringing back and on shoring factory jobs. That's not happening. All the new factories are gonna be run by robots. We all know that. They're lights out facilities. So what's the best worst case scenario here in terms of managing Speaker 1: Can I give you the upside? Please. And and everyone knows this, but like, you know, the IBEW is fine. Like, your electrician will still exist. We've got 1,000,000 lawyers and a little fewer than 1,000,000 lawyers in The United States, and a lot of them are SOL. And I think it's just so great to think of unemployed No. No. I'm serious. So it's going to I do think, to some extent, it's gonna affect the worst, most entitled, most annoying classes of people. Okay? So that's an upside. I don't wanna see any other So so first of class people so can see there's one thing. You can you can displace farm workers. What are they gonna do about it? You can displace factory workers. They'll just kill themselves with drugs and fast food, which they have done. You'll And feel sort of guilty, but then ignore it. If you do that to lawyers and nonprofit sector employees who I lived around in DC, you will get a revolution. And I mean that. I'm dead where did Paul Pott come from? Where I mean, there's never been a revolution that wasn't fomented by frustrated members of Of the sort of been class. Exactly. It's totally true. Subaristocrat, but the striving class, the most repulsive people there are, I think it would be fair to say, but also the most intent on getting what they want. And if you put them out of business, I mean, I'm not joking at all. I think We're Speaker 4: we're seeing this Speaker 1: could get unstated. Speaker 4: We're seeing this already and one could argue that the Mamdani election surge Yes. May be the result of young people coming out of colleges that were in that exact same situation. Exactly. Driving elite and they don't have and and they were told that if they take on $400,000 of debt, they'll end up making a good living and progressing in life Speaker 1: Exactly. Speaker 4: Buying a home and all of that turned out to not be fucking true.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:08 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

State Department Whistleblower Exposes the Real Plan for Gaza, and It's Shameful https://t.co/BQxn9v7kCn

Video Transcript AI Summary
Participants question the plan for Gaza and the West Bank. "On the West Bank, I think we were setting up annexation," they say, warning that "the Israelis want to take over that and call the entire West Bank ... part of Israel." They ask, "What does annexation mean?" and, "Then will the Palestinians live or get voting rights?" They critique U.S. policy as outsourcing action to others, noting "we’re paying for them" and that "this is America last in every possible way" amid "the endless war front." The discussion highlights casualty estimates in Gaza—"60 k" versus "100,000 up to 200,000"—and concerns about displacement of 2,000,000 residents, with rumors of resettlement by other countries. They ask, "Do you think it's possible that US government officials have talked to foreign governments about accepting the population of Gaza as refugees?" Concluding, "America is for forced displacement."
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: What is as as nonemotional and clinical as you can be, what is the plan here with Gaza in the West Bank? What do you think I keep wondering, like, okay. Every day it's a no, we killed them, but it was a mistake or we thought they were Hamas. Okay. Got it. But like, what what is the plan? Are they really going to move 2,000,000 people out of Gaza? Do you think that's actually going to happen? Speaker 1: This is what I'm afraid about. On the West Bank, I think we were setting up annexation, and I think the news for the past couple days shows that that's true. What does annexation mean? There's going to be an Israeli takeover of the West Bank, and basically area c was supposed to be where the Palestinians had full control. The Israelis want to take over that and call the entire West Bank and call it say it's part of Israel. Speaker 0: Then will the Palestinians live or get voting rights? Speaker 1: These are all questions that they have not answered, and I don't believe anyone wants to answer. Why? It's such an obvious question. Speaker 0: I know. What's your plan? Why does no one ask that question? Speaker 1: Or people even even the IDF in some occasions asks like, hey, this is a military takeover. What are we going to do? And the ministers don't care. Speaker 0: For whatever it's worth, it's not my country and I'm not that interested, but I just notice that the IDF, for all the grief that it takes, has actually been a voice of restraint in Gaza and the West Bank, at least publicly. They're like, wait a second, you're asking they're just a military. Speaker 1: Flag going into Gaza City. They're like, hey, this is gonna be Exactly. The same thing. Speaker 0: They're just a military with a bunch of reservists. You know? Some professionals, lots of reservists. And like every military, they kind of want to know why they're putting their lives at risk. At least that's my read on it. Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. And that's a whole another discussion, but I am worried about the political direction of Israel. It's going to be more and more extreme, and those guardrails are gone. But they're taking over the West Bank. We don't know what that looks like, and it's extremely dangerous. Speaker 0: But what's the pretext? Because the residents of the West Bank had nothing to do with the attacks on Southern Israel, right? Speaker 1: But it opens the door because you're so focused on Gaza, and this is But Speaker 0: is there justification for it? Is it like they don't have any hostages in the West Bank, do they? Speaker 1: No. No, there is no justification. What's awful is that instead of focusing on securing the release of the hostages, or just securing their own country, they've used this entire war, it's nearly two years now, to pursue opportunities. We're gonna bomb Beirut and kill all these civilians. We're gonna bomb Syria, kill civilians on too many occasions there. The bombing raids on Yemen, a start of a potential war with Iran that if president Trump had ended it, could have gotten to a spiraled. And so it's very dangerous that we're letting Israel take the front seat of our US foreign policy when we have the power to end these wars. Well, paying Speaker 0: for them. We're paying for them. And we paid for the, you know, the Israeli strikes on Iran. And I've said this to, you know, anyone who will listen. I think this will end the Republican Party. I don't think they're gonna get elected anything anytime soon after this if they don't pull back and establish independence from this Israel or any other foreign power. It's not about Israel. It's about any letting any other foreign country run your country. That's you can't have that. Everyone hates it. It's super unpopular, and it's very obvious. And if you want more Republicans in office, you can't act like this. Like, I think they're blowing up the party over this. That's my feeling. I'm saying this with love. I'm a unlike you, I'm I've been a pretty I don't vote that much, but when Speaker 1: I vote, it's Republican, you know? It's true. They voted for America first. I wouldn't vote for this. No Yeah. Absolutely. And think about there's a first on one end, it's the America first aspect that's very disappointing because this is America last in every possible way. And on the on the endless war front, every campaign, every winning presidential candidate said, we're not gonna get we're trying to avoid these wars, and they don't follow through. And yet, we're now funding this disaster Speaker 0: in Gaza. But do think that those so there I mean, estimates vary, we don't know how many people have been killed in Gaza. No one's allowed to find out. Speaker 1: Yeah. 60 k is definitely a bit Speaker 0: What do you far think the real number is in Gaza? Speaker 1: I've read other folks who give their estimates, and it's always 100,000 up to 200,000, even more. So the numbers that I've seen on the estimate scale are perfect. Do Speaker 0: our intel agencies have good estimates on this? Speaker 1: I would imagine. Speaker 0: But those haven't percolated down to the State Department at your level anyway. Speaker 1: Yeah. No, absolutely not. And I wish we could be discussing this. And I'm also horrified not just from the sheer numbers of killed, it's the lingering psychological effect of these poor civilians. Like children who've lost limbs, children who've lost parents, who damage is going to be decades and decades long. Speaker 0: For sure. And there will be radicalism, you know, and probably including violence. And I just pray it's not directed against The United States, but I fear that it will be. But that leaves, what, 2,000,000 people still in Gaza, Palestinians, mostly Muslim, but also Christians. What happens to them? I just keep wondering what happens to them. Speaker 1: The policy, the comments, the policies have always shown a certain disdain. Like, oh, we'll pay them off for them to move out. They're not actually starving. Not only are they getting bombed lose their homes and their family members, they're being thrown around like this annoyance, and it's horrible. But just based on the reporting, it looks like we are trying to push them out to a different country. Every two months, there's a new rumor. Seems like we're talking to these other countries in Africa. Speaker 0: We the US government is? Speaker 1: Well, it depends on each specific case. There has been reporting that Israel's trying to do this on their own, and if we're involved, and there's also been some reporting on whether our own government officials have spoken with, like, the Libyan government as well. Speaker 0: Do you think it's possible that US government officials have talked to foreign governments about accepting the population of Gaza as refugees? Do you Speaker 1: think that's possible? Yes. Do you think it's that happened? I I it's probable. Speaker 0: That's disgusting. I mean, that's just like shocking to me. I don't want to believe that could be true. Yeah. Why are we doing that? What do we have to do with this? Speaker 1: Right. And it's always about our diplomatic power. Like, Israel's diplomatic power is limited, but who can get these objectives done? We can. So that's why In our last act as a superpower. Yeah. That's why these officials from M. C. Jerusalem are dangerous, because that connection's being made. Speaker 0: So you don't know, bottom line, what the plan is for the population of Gaza or the West Bank. Speaker 1: Yeah. I do know they cut my line on forced displacement, and now there's new reporting on them moving them out of Gaza, so it's not headed into the right direction. Speaker 0: So America is for forced displacement. Think this country was found out so bonkers.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:07 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

“There Was Foreknowledge” - Tucker Exposes the Lies About 9/11 and Building 7 https://t.co/9MHhDnYmDb

Video Transcript AI Summary
Speaker 1 argues that "the core lie, is the nine eleven commission itself, which was an instrument, a political instrument of the Bush administration" run by "Philip Zellico," who "stage managed the explanation for nine eleven" so Americans would be convinced to invade Iraq; "he wrote the commission report with that in mind" and "before the investigation took place." He says "Chairman Tom Cain ... stage managed the entire thing and prevented investigators from looking into, like, core questions." He claims the CIA "was fully aware that many of the hijackers who committed nine eleven were in The United States," citing that "11 out of the 19 hijackers had visas for travel to The United States issued in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia" at "the moment that John Brennan was the station chief for the CIA in Saudi Arabia," and that "this is all documented" though the information was not shared with the FBI or the public, "and three thousand people died as a result." He states "Huge parts of the nine eleven story were left out of the commission report" and questions Building 7, urging accountability. The piece promises weekly episodes starting 09/11 at tuckercarlson.com.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: What to you though, Tucker, are the big biggest lies perpetrated on the American people from nine eleven? Speaker 1: Well, the core lie, is the nine eleven commission itself, which was an instrument, a political instrument of the Bush administration run by a guy called Philip Zellico. And from beginning to end, he stage managed the explanation for nine eleven in a way that benefited the neoconservative factions within the Bush administration. The point was to leverage the pain and outrage of that day and use it to convince Americans that we ought to invade Iraq, which of course had nothing whatsoever to do with nine eleven. And he wrote the commission report with that in mind. And by the way, he wrote it before the investigation took place. He literally sketched it out before they knew what the facts were. And then during the course of the investigation, he systematically I'm not guessing, by the way, this is not a conspiracy theory. This is the testimony of people who are directly involved in the commissioning. Chairman Tom Cain, the former governor of New Jersey, Republican governor, he stage managed the entire thing and prevented investigators from looking into, like, core questions. For example, the CIA was fully aware that many of the hijackers who committed nine eleven were in The United States. They had followed them, as the trailer suggests, around the world. 11 out of the 19 hijackers had visas for travel to The United States issued in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia at exactly the moment that John Brennan was the station chief for the CIA in Saudi Arabia. They knew that they were here. They didn't hide the fact that they were here. I mean, Khalid Almir Har, who was a 26 year old Saudi with the just the plane that hit the Pentagon was in the San Diego phone book, and he was being followed by the CIA. I mean, this is all documented, and not just by the CIA, by foreign intel services, probably the British, possibly the French, definitely the Israelis, they knew. Now, I'm not alleging that they committed nine eleven, but I am stating, because it's a fact, that they were aware the hijackers were in The US and were planning a terror attack against The United States, and they never passed that information to the FBI, to local police, much less to the American public, and three thousand people died as a result. So what is that? Huge parts of the nine eleven story were left out of the commission report. For example, what happened to Building 7, which was not only not next to the Twin Towers, which are hit by airplanes, but had a building in between itself and those buildings collapsed that afternoon for reasons that no one has been able to explain since. You're not a lunatic for asking. There is no real act there's no plausible explanation for how that building Speaker 0: collapsed. Let's talk about that. Speaker 1: Even mentioned. Speaker 0: Well, let's talk about that for a moment. Yeah. Because it because it's it's one of the many, you know, things that have raged since. If you look into the investigation into Tower 7, the findings of the investigation into it were that the North Tower, when it came down, had set off a load of fires in Building 7. The and it was a steel structure and shouldn't have gone down, but it did. These fires burned all afternoon, and I think it was about 05:00 in the afternoon or something that the the tower eventually gave way to the welter of fires raging inside it. And it was the only time that had happened to a structure that was built in that way. However, there has been another tower very similar to that structure, which has since gone down in Tehran. So it's no longer the only one. In other words, there is a another example of a tower like that collapsing. So when it comes to the the specific theory about that, what is what is the alternative explanation? I mean, if you're examining another theory other than the one that the investigation concluded was simply that the North Tower came down, fires were set off in Tower 7, and then it eventually collapsed. What is the other theory which we should give more credence Speaker 1: to? I I I don't know I don't know that the onus is on me or anyone who seeks the truth about what happened to come up with an alternative theory. The onus is on federal authorities to explain why, for example, they never investigated it. Why, for example, the rubble and the steel from that building was carted off within hours and sent out of the country to Asia. Why, for example, an analysis done not by kooks but by chemists found traces of explosive material in the dust from that day. Why structural engineers who have kind of no skin in this game came to the conclusion that that just couldn't happen based on all available evidence. And that none of that is addressed at all or even mentioned in the 09:11 report. So and there are all kinds of anomalies as I know that you're fully aware and there are possible explanations to explain all of them. For example, the BBC report on air saying the building had fallen when it hadn't fallen yet. There are all sorts of reasons to wonder, like, what the hell is this? But it's not incumbent on us to provide explanation. It's incumbent on the people running the government and running the the supposed investigation into this to tell us, like, what was that? Speaker 0: And then you mean, look. I I have a very open mind. The reason I'm the reason I'm interested to watch your documentary series, I have a genuinely open mind. And, actually, it's been, I would say, it's been more opened generally about this kind of thing since the COVID pandemic that I I was too, I think, credulous For sure. What the authorities were saying through the pandemic to my detriment. You and I have had this conversation. So I'm actually I have a very open mind about this. I mean, on the specifics, for example, the BBC report you mentioned was based on a false Reuters report that they retracted soon afterwards and said it shouldn't have gone out. And the building you could see the building behind the BBC journal. So it was obviously ludicrous CNN did the same thing. But I you know, having been in the news game as you do as you have, on big breaking news stories, fog of war stuff happens. And if it was a genuine error by Reuters, okay. I remember, for example, to just as a comparison, I remember being on air at CNN when the hurricane came through hurricane Sandy burst through Manhattan. I don't if you you want you're probably a Fox then, I think. But if you remember, half the lights went out without Manhattan. Yep. And remember a report coming from CNN that the stock exchange was underwater, and that had an immediate impact on global markets. And it turned out that was a false report. So these things can happen. In terms of your overview from everything you've unearthed in a documentary, though, have you unearthed any evidence that there was any suggestion anywhere of an inside job? Or is the stuff that you're talking about relation to CIA and and the fascinating details of these two people in particular they were following, is that more cock up than conspiracy? In other words, was it a gigantic cock up that after Bin Laden had already had one go at the World Trade Center, that there there was just not a collective effort by the CI, by FBI, by other intelligence agents around the world to stop him succeeding with a second attempt. So is it cock up, or do you think there is merit to suggestion that some people somewhere must have known more than we've been told? Speaker 1: Well, we know that people did know more than we've been told. I mean, somebody shorted the airlines and a bunch of the banks that were affected. Now, this is not a conspiracy theory. It's not a guess. This is publicly available information. Now, the FBI found out the identity of the person or institution that shorted these events on 09/11 and made a huge amount of money by doing that, but never released that information. So why can't we know who clearly had foreknowledge? I mean, if you're shorting American Airlines a week before nine eleven when no one knows it's coming, I think you should have to explain why you did that. And if you're shorting Barclays and and banks that were affected by nine eleven, why can't we know who you are? These are public markets, by the way. This is not private equity. This is publicly traded equities. So I I I wonder about that. So clearly, yes, there was foreknowledge. By the way, there was a team this is according to the FBI, by the way. This is the FBI saying there was a team of clearly Intel connected foreigners who were arrested after nine eleven, as you well know, videotaping the terror attacks. This is I'm almost verbatim quoting from the FBI assessment of this. And the FBI determined that they apparently had foreknowledge of the attacks. So why can't we know more about that? Exactly. Shut up. That's bigoted. No. This is my country, actually. I know people who died on 09/11. Everything was changed because of it. I promptly went off to The Middle East just like everyone else in our business. I'm sure you did as well. And and then we lost our civil liberties at home. We immediately started torturing people and locking up people for years. They are still locked up in Guantanamo Bay with no charges at all. And the rest of us, very much me included, nodded our heads and like, yeah. They're bad. They're Muslim terrorists. Now, I think a lot of them were bad and they were Muslim terrorists. On the other hand, if your government is allowed to torture people and lock them up indefinitely without charging them, how long before they do that to you? We don't do that here. I know it's very common in The UK now, which is an authoritarian country. We don't want that here, and nine eleven dramatically changed our assumptions about what the government is allowed to do. So and and by way, I should say, the main beneficiary in The United States of those attacks was the CIA, which allowed them to happen. So the CIA budget became, you know, more than doubled. Of course, we're not allowed to know what the CIA budget is even in government. The official story on nine eleven is a complete lie. The nine eleven report is a joke. Speaker 2: You have the CIA following two men all over the planet and then eventually even to America. Right? And you don't tell the FBI. Nine eleven commission cover. Speaker 1: So what did happen? What did the government know? What did foreign governments know? There was a cover up. Why? It's been nearly twenty five years. It is time Americans learned what actually happened. We're gonna tell you. We're releasing one episode per week. You're not gonna wanna wait. If you're a member, you don't have to. You get all five episodes the day it drops right then, ad free. Our first episode airs Thursday, 09/11, September 11. You will not wanna miss it. Join us now at tuckercarlson.com.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:07 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Are Your Favorite TV Shows Dragging You Closer to the Demonic? https://t.co/Ym3PMbB7WW

Video Transcript AI Summary
“the biggest problem in our culture is to deny that there is a demonic realm, pretend like there isn't.” They list hallmarks: “Disorder, distraction, chaos, violence, hate, division.” They argue Satan would go after Hollywood to “influence … producers to create films … with an underlying message … normalization of immoral activity.” They point to Friends as an example with “an ugly sexual ethic” that could lead to casual sex, and say Hollywood products open us up to the occult. They argue subversion targets leaders and children: pastors’ scandals, teachers, “libraries doing children's readings of and drag shows to little kids” to capture minds young. They discuss why evil persists; “If you believe in Jesus, you gotta believe in angels. You gotta believe in demons. You gotta believe in heaven. You gotta believe in hell.” They cite: “forty percent of Americans have had an experience that they can only attribute to a miracle of God,” and the rest may know someone who has. They propose to notice distractions; “you will experience the supernatural” in “forty eight hours.”
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: I think the biggest problem in our culture is to deny that there is a demonic realm, pretend like there isn't. Speaker 1: So what are the hallmarks of it then? Speaker 0: Well, I think some things you mentioned, we see manifestations of it in ways that defy natural explanations. And I think that's probably the best way of Speaker 1: Disorder, distraction, chaos, violence, hate, division. Speaker 0: And you think if Satan were smart, which he is, would he go around the country and around the world trying to possess or bother average everyday people? Well, you know what? Much more efficient to go to Hollywood and to influence a bunch of people there who are very influential in, let's say, the entertainment industry. And let's say he encourages them to create films and television shows that are funny and that are creative and are fun, but there's an underlying message to them that there's a normalization of immoral activity that makes it normal. Because, you know, when we laugh, it opens us up to to various possibilities. When we laugh, our defenses come down. So I'm thinking of a wonderful, funny TV show like Friends. Remember Friends, the TV show? It was on TV for years. Very popular show. Speaker 1: Only American who never saw it, but yeah. Speaker 0: But underlying that is a very ugly sexual ethic that that normalizes multiple sexual partners and that sort of thing. The kind of thing that Satan would love to inculcate into American culture. And you know what? I think it's much more efficient for Satan to influence movie makers and TV makers in Hollywood to create products that feed us stuff that, without us even realizing it, open us up to the occult, open us up to immoral activity, normalize it in ways that, well, if Monica can do that on Friends, I can certainly have sex on the first date with this guy So I Speaker 1: the way I, as a non theological, ignorant person, try and figure out whether something's good or bad, because it is an open question very often, is that good or bad? I'm not sure. Yeah. Are the people doing it at peace and joyful, happy? Yeah. Are they tormented? Yeah. And I know a lot of people in Hollywood, a lot of people I like actually, not too many happy people. Yeah. So really tormented people It's true. For real. Yeah. String of wrecked relationships, kids who hate them, trans kids, drug problems. Like, there's so much of that. Yeah. Do you think that's a fair way to assess? Speaker 0: I think because it is logical that if Satan were to try to influence a culture in a mass way, that that is a logical way that he would do it. And, guess what? By the way, look at all the dysfunction we see in that community. It does seem to match up. Speaker 1: So if evil is acting through you, you are harmed too? Speaker 0: Generally, would say yes. You're gonna be someone who's trying to influence others. You may not realize the Speaker 1: full But it reason destroys you. Yeah. It does destroy you. It certainly seems to. Speaker 0: Yeah. I think so. Who would God created us so we could have a relationship with him, so he he taught us how we can live in a way that maximizes who we are. And when we stray from that in in egregious ways, as many people have and do, there are implications for us. Speaker 1: If I were trying to subvert and destroy, I would go after religious leaders. Yeah. I'd have them, like, molest kids or take freaky sex lives or steal money from the church. Yes. And you do I've always noticed that the leadership of Christian churches in just, like, numerically Yeah. Way more likely to be screwed up than the people in the pews. Interesting. Do know what I mean? You see these sex scandals with pastors, and you're like, how many people who are going to church every Sunday have sex lives like that? Probably not very many, but a pretty high percentage of pastors, and I feel like that is outside influence. Speaker 0: Like a teacher's too. Teachers who young kids look up to, you know, you can imagine when you were kindergarten, first grade, second grade, you looked up to your teacher. Speaker 1: Not one time. There's not one teacher I liked. Speaker 0: Oh, really? Oh, I sure did. Speaker 1: I never know. I felt it was a Speaker 0: No kidding. Speaker 1: An authoritarian situation. I was I was totally opposed from kindergarten on till I left college. There was not one day where I respected or liked any of them, not a single one. Speaker 0: Is so I'm Speaker 1: serious, dude. Speaker 0: That is so funny. I happened to go to public school growing up and yet back then in the fifties and sixties, most of the teachers are Christians. Yeah. And so, no, I had some wonderful teachers that taught me great lessons about life. Speaker 1: You grew up in a better America than I did. In Southern California in the seventies, thought they were all buffoons, freaks. I wasn't taking orders from them. I really disliked them. Sorry, excuse me. Speaker 0: It's funny. Speaker 1: But but if you wanna lead people astray, you subvert their leaders, I guess is what. Speaker 0: Yes. Very much so. I mean, yeah, just put yourself in Satan's place. How are you gonna impact the maximum number of people? You're gonna wanna go after leaders. You're gonna wanna go after religious leaders. You're gonna wanna go after children. You're gonna you know, and influence them at a young age. Speaker 1: We see all of that. I often think this is such a wonderful country despite all its problems. I'm totally convinced it's the best country having been to a lot of countries. Yeah. But our leadership is the worst. Yeah. It's They're they're the worst. They're like the worst people I've ever met. Mhmm. And maybe that's not accidental. Speaker 0: Yeah. I mean, there could it be I'll just raise a question. Could it be that some people have received some assistance from demonic Speaker 1: Certainly seems that way. In terms Speaker 0: of achieving what they've achieved. Speaker 1: How many happy I don't know how many political leaders you know, but how many happy ones have you met? Speaker 0: Gosh. Not a lot I trust. Put it that way. Speaker 1: Right. But they're all, like, tormented. Yeah. Sweaty and nervous and afraid. Don't you think those are signs? Speaker 0: I do. I do. And you look at if if Satan's gonna go after children, what is all this stuff about libraries doing children's readings of and drag shows to to little kids? Why? Why would that happen? You know what? Because if you can capture the mind of a child very young, it could influence them for the rest of their life. Speaker 1: What happens because we put up with it? Yeah. We do. A healthy society would not put up with that That's true. For five minutes. That's true. Yeah. Sorry. They'd drive them out of the temple immediately with a whip. Right. Yeah. Sorry. Excuse me. But so many of the things you've said are also instantly recognizable Yeah. To everyone listening, whatever their religious faith or lack of religious faith is, things that do happen, actually. It's real. Yeah. We all know Yeah. That there are things that happen to us and people we know well and love that are outside the ability of science to explain. Speaker 0: God, they're Speaker 1: still active. Supernatural. Yeah. So my final question to you, Lee Strobel, and this has been amazing. Thank you. Speaker 0: Oh, my pleasure. Speaker 1: Is why do we keep ignoring it? Speaker 0: Yeah. I think it goes back to what I said earlier. I think we're embarrassed sometimes by the supernatural that we're gonna think people are gonna think we're nuts. Speaker 1: But if that's real and it clearly is real, then, like, it puts everything else into perspective. Speaker 0: Yeah. And when when you take it seriously and when you look at it like you Speaker 1: not take it seriously if Speaker 0: you Well, Speaker 1: I agree. Grew up in a culture that tells you none of it's real, and yet it's super obvious that it is super obvious Yeah. That it's real in some most general sense. Yes. The supernatural is real. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Then why don't people talk about it all the time? Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. I think the fact that I've been a Christian since 11/08/1981, and I've never heard a sermon on the topic of angels in my life tells you something. I think I I think we we shy away because we we we wanna be accepted as normal. I I know why else. Speaker 1: Get out of bed on Sunday to sit in a church where they're, like, pretending that nothing they say is true. Speaker 0: It's it's it's a good point. If we believe if we If it's Speaker 1: not supernatural, like, why are you bothering? Speaker 0: Exactly. If you believe in Jesus, you gotta believe in angels. You gotta believe in demons. You gotta believe in Satan. You gotta believe in heaven. You gotta believe in hell. Because if you believe in Jesus, he taught on all those things. Yeah. So my goodness. How could you not? I agree with you. How could you not? Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, go on. Move on to something else. Yeah. Go play tennis or something. Speaker 0: And if if forty percent of Americans have had an experience that they can only attribute to a miracle of God, that means the other sixty percent probably know one of those forty percent. Right? Yeah. And, oh, my brother had this experience. My cousin had and we kinda say, what do we do with that? And and I think what we ought to do is look for that which is is corroborated and which is consistent with what we trust to be true, which for me are the Christian scriptures. Speaker 1: If you just fight against distraction Yeah. Consistently for just a day or two, like, I'm not gonna be distracted. I'm just gonna notice. That's it. That's all you do is just notice. I'm just gonna notice stuff. Yeah. If you do that as an exercise literally for forty eight hours, you will experience the supernatural. I think you're right. It's hard to do that.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:07 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

“A Turning Point” - Tucker’s Thoughts on the Charlotte Stabbing https://t.co/usr9coh8W8

Video Transcript AI Summary
Discussion begins with Tucker Carlson reacting to the Charlotte train stabbing, calling it a turning point and warning about ethnic conflict in a multiethnic society: "One was just stabbed to death on a train for being white." "ethnic conflict because it's enduring. It doesn't go away." He argues fear of saying hard truths fuels the problem: "not being able to say anything about it because you fear you're gonna be called names doesn't make the problem go away." He notes rising antisemitism: "There's definitely rising antisemitism for sure" and, "I hate it." He criticizes conflating a nation state with an ethnic group: "conflating a nation state with an ethnic group is not a long term strategy." "Don't punish the innocent." "We punish the guilty." David Sacks: "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." "Every government should be subject to criticism."
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Tucker, just react to what happened this weekend in Charlotte on the train with the woman who was stabbed by Speaker 1: I think it's gotta be a turning point. I mean, I I think that the number one thing you don't want Speaker 0: How can there be just a coordinated suppression? How does that happen? Speaker 1: Well, that's you know, this is how people wind up with really dark theories about what's happening. Because why would you suppress that? If a young woman by the way, Ukrainian, I I wish I wish cost+drugs.com was here so I could ask him. Like if you really Mark here. Sorry. Cost+drugs.com. I wish I could ask if you care about the Ukrainian people. One was just stabbed to death on a train for being white. Why doesn't anybody say it? Where all The U where's Bill Crystal on this? Like, we love the Ukrainians. One just got stabbed in the neck on public transportation and no one cares. Like, what I don't I don't have an answer to your question. I will say that the one thing you have to worry about in a multiethnic society is ethnic conflict because it's enduring. It doesn't go away. It's generational, and we are moving toward that. She was stabbed because she was white, and everyone knows that actually. And knowing that and not being able to say anything about it because you fear you're gonna be called names doesn't make the problem go away. It makes you move to Bozeman, and it makes the problem worse. Right. And that's what you're seeing. Everyone I know who can afford it is moving to Bozeman or Jackson or, you know, Sun Valley or whatever, but they all have one thing in common. Okay. Let's just stop lying. And I don't like that. Okay. Because that suggests a future of ethnic conflict, is like, ask anybody from a country that has ask a Belgian. Belgium has ethnic conflict. Yeah. So this is inherent to the human condition, and you wanna be very thoughtful in trying to avoid it. And things like that exacerbate it like to a crazy crazy animal level that Speaker 2: Tucker Tucker, let me just ask, do you Three three parts to this, but short. Do you believe that there is rising antisemitism in the West? And why do people say that you are contributing to it? Why has that become Speaker 1: Well, I think there's rising antisemitism on the left and right. There's definitely rising antisemitism for sure and I hate it. You don't have to believe me. Speaker 2: You hate it on the record. Right? Speaker 1: Of course, hate Speaker 2: it. Yeah. Because there's a lot of social media, a lot of this coordinated effort from large industry groups saying Tucker Carlson is an anti Semite. Why is that the Yeah. Speaker 1: Attacking my children over it. Yeah. I I I'm aware. Yeah. Right. And I actually called an Israeli official who I know. I know a bunch of them, including the prime minister, and said, why are you doing this to me? If you think I'm your enemy, man, you're you're really out to lunch, and they're totally out to lunch. And they I've never seen anybody mismanage anything the way the government of Israel is mismanaging their response to what's happening in Gaza and the West Bank. And the way to the way to and it's not my country, but I'm just noticing that this is really bad for everybody. Two things. One, you have to be will if I stand up and say, you know, I'm an American. My family's been here for three hundred year, four hundred years, and I love this country, but my government's done a lot of horrible things. No one's like, you hate America. If you're like, I love Israel and I like Israel. I'm a visitor to Israel frequent visitor to Israel. And but this is not good. Shut up. That's not helpful at all. Like, you turn your allies into enemies by acting that way, a. B, conflating a nation state with an ethnic group is not a long term strategy. It's not wise because you are tied to the to the temporal politics, the politics of the moment. Like, Bibi's political I don't hate Bibi, but his political fortunes, individual political fortunes play a a role in his calculation in everything that he does. True with all politicians. You wanna tie an entire group to that? I don't think that's very smart. You can say, I really like Israel. I love Israel. I have family in Israel. Whatever you think about Israel, but, like, I don't think this is a good idea or I'm offended by it or whatever. Mhmm. If you eliminate the distinction between a political organization, which is a synonym for government, and an ethnic group, boy, you're gonna hurt that ethnic group, and that's exactly what's happened. It's it's so bad, and it freaks me out. And I I will say once again that my views on Israel apply to The United States. They apply to Senegal. They apply to Malaysia. They apply to people. Speaker 2: But not to the Jewish people. Speaker 1: Come on, dude. Right. No. Right. And and I'm not even I don't even fight back against it because I'm like, that's so low. Right. I'm not playing your fucking game. Okay? What my view is really simple. I don't think that it is allowable. It is the most immoral thing to punish the innocent. The United States government has punished the innocent a lot. They did during COVID. I yelled about it every night on Fox News. All governments do this because all leaders get carried away with hubris, and they treat people like numbers or enemies or nonhuman beings, and they kill them. I'm opposed to that. You should be we're all opposed to that, by the way. I'm opposed when it happens in Gaza. I'm opposed when it happens in Texas. I'm opposed I'm just opposed. And all of a sudden, we've reached this place where people are so overwrought and defensive. Like, he meant it said something about, you know, I don't know. I'm glad we beat Imperial Japan. I'm kinda sad that we incinerated all those people at the atom bomb. Ben Shapiro did a whole segment about how I was like a quiseling or something. You hate America. No. I love America. That's why I don't ever want anybody to kill people who didn't do anything wrong. That is the basis of justice. We punish the guilty. We can argue about to what degree they should be punished. Should it be Norway where they get high speed internet and massages? Or should it be, you know what I mean, Malawi where they rot Speaker 3: in a cave? But Why are we not allowed Speaker 1: We don't punish the innocent. And that includes children. All children. Speaker 3: Tucker, why are we not allowed to say we are absolutely saddened at the tragedy that happened on October 7, and we're absolutely appalled at watching people starve and innocents being killed in Gaza and not being able to get them made? Why can't you say both things and not be criticized? Speaker 1: You should be. And I've decided that I'm old enough, and I know god. Now I sound like such a fraud. I know my heart. But, like, I you can feel the hate coming off people or whatever. I would hear Obama talks, I always really liked Obama before he became a senator. But I would hear him talk and he'd be like, wow. That's animated by hate. And it would be in this this is your captain speaking voice, but it didn't matter. I was like my dogs. Like, I could feel what was in him. And I feel very confident in my views. I like people, I just feel that way. And I'm not gonna play the game where I have to be like, oh, actually, my wife is part Jewish or whatever. Final question. I'm not gonna do that. I think we should stand on principle. Don't punish the innocent. I don't care who you are. No one has a special dispensation that allows him or his country to punish the innocent. And if you do, I'm gonna call you on it. Okay. Speaker 4: And and let me just back up. It's in lieu of a final question. I just wanna back up Tucker on this that the base of conservatism is not believing that any government is sacred. Speaker 2: Thank you, David Sacks. Speaker 4: Yeah. Every government should be subject to criticism because we know that they will always abuse their authority. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. All governments must be subject to criticism. And governments shouldn't seek to make themselves immune by essentially calling people names. And, you know, I've known Tucker for thirty years. He doesn't have an anti Semitic bone in his body. And it really pisses me off the way that he gets attacked for criticizing the conduct of a government. Speaker 1: I'm not even that critical, by the way. That's the hilarious thing. I'm not even that critical. Like, I have been David, as Speaker 3: we wrap here Speaker 1: people do shitty things and I'm not like Speaker 0: I think I think for what it's worth, you're an American treasure. And I appreciate that Speaker 1: you're Thanks. Speaker 3: Yeah. And, Sax, as we wrap here, tell us about the meet cute moment when you met Tucker, and you fell in love with Oh, meet cute. You love Tucker. Yeah. Meet cute. Tell us. The meet cute. You come around a cubicle, what happens? You see He's got the bow tie. You guys lock eyes. How did it Yeah. What happens? Speaker 1: It was at lunch in Union Station in Washington DC. I'll never forget. Speaker 3: Tell us, Sax, your earliest memory of Tucker. Speaker 4: Just a camaraderie born of of some common views. Speaker 1: So Yeah. And can I say one thing about David? David was saying I don't even get into it, but he was saying things that now would be considered well, of course, but at the time were, like, pretty brave, I thought. He had written a book and I was and we had a mutual childhood friend and I was like super impressed because he was saying things that the people around him would be like, you don't need to say that. Why are you doing that? And he was just totally principled, completely principled. And you just don't meet that many people like that.
Saved - September 11, 2025 at 5:07 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

"I'm Sickened By It" - Tucker Slams Mike Huckabee's Heartless Statement https://t.co/9fSKjmBWP4

Video Transcript AI Summary
The issue is a lot of the personnel problems are still there, but at a more subtle. "An ambassador Huckabee, to me, is still part of that same grouping in terms of the damage it can do in our foreign policy." "There were tweets from several weeks ago where he was attacking The UK prime minister, ambassador was." "we're burning diplomatic capital left and right. Australia, The UK, Canada, with all these US allies considering recognizing the Palestinian state, and we're going out there attacking them one by one on behalf of Israel." "I’m for moving in a bunch of different radical directions, like banning high interest loans." "But what I'm not in favor of is moving in radical directions on behalf of a foreign country whose interests are not the same as ours."
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: You came in not as a former Trump staffer, but as someone who, as you've said, agreed with his basic impulse on foreign policy, which is like, hey. Let's let's have more peace, less war. There must have been other people there who were like full blown America First people, I would think, would hope. Did any of them ever say to you, this isn't really America First? Speaker 1: It's true. Look, people were happy after Trump won when, okay, we're getting Trump too, but we don't have John Bolton and Michael Payoh and Nick Haley back again. The issue is a lot of the personnel problems are still there, but at a more it's more subtle. An ambassador Huckabee, to me, is still part of that same grouping in terms of the damage it can do in our foreign policy. Right? Speaker 0: Well, so give me an example of the damage you think Huckabee has done to American foreign policy since you've paid close attention to his statements, and I really haven't. Speaker 1: Well, it's the lack of accountability for having Milstein around, adding Judea Samaria, right? These are your trusted senior advisors, right? And so there's that. There's the no follow through on what happened in Taipei in the West Bank, and what happened to the church in Gaza. It's our entire Israel policy. Goes out there. There were tweets from several weeks ago where he was attacking The UK prime minister, ambassador was. He started calling the prime minister out for questioning Israel's conduct in Gaza, and he said if you something along the lines of if it wasn't for Dresden, you'd all be speaking German. So green lighting the slaughter of Palestinians, etcetera, just thinking it's okay, which was horrific language. Speaker 0: Endorsed Dresden? Speaker 1: It's it's on Twitter. It was it was horrific. Speaker 0: The bombing of Dresden? I the way yeah. Speaker 1: He was comparing he was comparing Dresden to what was happening in Gaza and saying Speaker 0: I don't think there's anybody it's it's hardly a pro Hitler. I'm anti Hitler for whatever it's worth, just to be clear. It's it's hardly pro Nazi to say that what the Allies did in the British, really, at Dresden was a war crime. I mean, nobody nobody would So why should say otherwise. He endorsed the Dresden bombing? Speaker 1: Who gives an ambassador the green light to poke at ally's prime minister, The UK, a true ally, and two, The nonchalant attitude towards the slaughter of people, both in Dresden or in comparing it to what's happening in Gaza, Speaker 0: it's Yeah, worth not the Christian view. Murdering innocence is always wrong, period. Is dangerous. Does it. Speaker 1: Foreign policy. Speaker 0: I despise The UK and its prime minister, and I'm totally happy to urinate on both. But it should be from the perspective of what's good for The United States, not what's good for another country. Like, that's bonkers. That's really Yeah. Does anybody say anything about that, like, internally? There any effort All to the time. Speaker 1: People are like, oh, cringe people cringe at it when they see all saw those tweets. But Speaker 0: Well, so typically in administration, you know, the ambassador serves the president as his diplom you know, the chief diplomat in the country to which he's posted. And, you know, there are a million examples all the time of the ambassador getting called back to Washington or getting a cable from DC. Woah. That's not our policy. You know, pull it in line with what the president's view is because that's who you work for. Right. So if And did anyone do that Speaker 1: with Huckabee? Never. You have he's representing secretary Rubio. Secretary Rubio is representing the president, and no one is stopping ambassador Huckabee from going fully unleashed. And that's why my very basic edits and suggestions from that week was such a red flag that we had to get rid of you immediately. What that means is that if we're not stopping Ambassador Huckabee at that level, that becomes policy. Yes. Yes. That's right. Right? So that's it. And if I'm going to be fired for lines of what were, or should be, and I think are President Trump's views, then things are moving in a more radical direction, and they will. Speaker 0: Yeah. I mean, I guess I am for moving in a bunch of different radical directions, like banning high interest loans. I'm strongly for that. What I'm not in favor of is moving in radical directions on behalf of a foreign country whose interests are not the same as ours, that are aligned on some things and diverge at other points, but they're not the same. Why would you wanna be radical on behalf of another country? Speaker 1: Right. It makes no sense. Speaker 0: Well, it's unpatriotic. Yes. It's totally wrong, and it's America last. It's also a form of treachery, I think, subverting our foreign policy on behalf of another country that wasn't I not a citizen in that country. Are you doing? Right? Speaker 1: Right. And we did all of this. We're burning diplomatic capital left and right. Australia, The UK, Canada, with all these US allies considering recognizing the Palestinian state, and we're going out there attacking them one by one on behalf of Israel. Those are Speaker 0: our partners. Is it worth But we're also not I mean, they've all those countries have basically eliminated human rights in their own countries, eliminated freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom of association. They've got political prisoners. It's crazy what those countries are doing to their own citizens. We don't say a word. But if they criticize a foreign another country, then we attack them? Speaker 1: Yeah. We have other issues we could discuss with them, but instead we choose to make Israel this odd red line. And it takes a lot of diplomatic capital to attack your allies. We need them for so many things. It doesn't matter if it's trade or war or some resolution of the UN. This is terrific. Speaker 0: First of all, Mike Huckabee endorsing Dresden, I just refer you to the New Testament. That is not permitted for Christians to be in favor of that. It's just not even close. So I don't know why I know Huckabee, I've always liked him. I don't know what in the world if he actually said that, I don't know what he was thinking. I'm gonna look it up the second we get off this interview. But that's really shocking to me that he would say something like that. But in general, there's been a coarsening, I think, of people watching this stuff, celebrating pager attacks and people getting their dicks blown off. Stuff. I mean, like, why would we celebrate that? Yeah. But Ben Shapiro was on there jumping up and down with glee when that happened. Speaker 1: So it's an indictment of our soul. Why did we lose this ability to empathize with Speaker 0: other If you think it's thrilling that a country would indiscriminately detonate explosives in people's pockets, so they don't know who's holding those things, actually. They don't know who's standing next to them. If you think that's great, you know Children died. Oh, I know. Anyway, I'm really sickened by it and I'm infuriated by the requirement to celebrate it. Speaker 1: Right. Why are we in this era of celebrating these violent attacks and celebrating a new weapon that comes out, but each time there's a diplomatic endeavor to end a war, it's so controversial and so heavy, and it's sold to people in such a negative way. So that dichotomy is a true problem where Speaker 0: As empires die, people go crazy. This is one of the things that's pretty consistent through history. They lose their sense of reality and they become violence worshipers. And I just hate to see it happening to this country that I love so much and that I'm never leaving, but like, this is really dark. Yeah. So dark. It is dark.
Saved - September 2, 2025 at 4:24 PM
reSee.it AI Summary
I believe everyone experiences sensations that science struggles to quantify, often dismissed by academics as non-existent. These supernatural occurrences are real and deserve exploration. Lee Strobel, with his unique background in religion and journalism, provides insight into these unexplainable phenomena in his latest book. He emphasizes that belief in Jesus inherently includes acceptance of angels, demons, and the afterlife, as these are integral to his teachings. The full conversation with Strobel is now available for those interested in delving deeper.

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Everyone is constantly sensing things that science can’t measure. It happens all the time, through sight, touch, taste, hearing, and smell. Your average academic curriculum would have you believe those experiences are impossible. “They’re not really happening,” so-called experts say. But they are. They’re supernatural. What do these phenomena mean? Pastor and former reporter Lee Strobel is the man to ask. As one of the few Americans with expertise in religion and journalism, he was the perfect person to write an in-depth book on the parts of life science can’t explain: mystical dreams, dances with death, miracles, ghosts, and all the rest. Strobel joined The Tucker Carlson Show to tell us all there is to know. Lee Strobel tells Tucker: “If you believe in Jesus, you’ve got to believe in angels, you’ve got to believe in demons, you’ve got to believe in Satan, you’ve got to believe in heaven, you’ve got to believe in hell. Because if you believe in Jesus, he taught on all those things. So my goodness, how could you not?” Full conversation out now.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

There’s a lot that science can’t explain, including most of what actually matters. Lee Strobel on the overwhelming evidence that the supernatural world is entirely real. (0:00) Introduction (3:02) Strobel’s Encounter With an Angel (8:30) Do We Have a Guardian Angel? (19:31) What Are Demons? (27:03) Can a Christian Be Possessed? (35:03) Why Did the Pharisees Hate When Jesus Performed Miracles? (38:24) Is Hollywood Possessed? (41:54) Are Christian Leaders Under Demonic Attacks? (45:08) How Do You Protect Yourself From Demons? (46:31) What Is the Holy Spirit? (48:18) Are There Specific Places on Earth That Are More Demonic Than Others? (49:45) What Is a Mystical Dream? (52:59) How to Hear From God (56:38) The Mystical Dream Phenomenon Happening in the Middle East (1:02:42) Visions, Psychoactive Drugs, and Hallucinations (1:05:30) Is There a Link to Mental Illness and Demonic Influence? (1:07:28) What Is the Gift of Speaking in Tongues? (1:09:05) The Weight of the Name of God (1:11:43) Angels and Near-Death Experiences (1:22:07) What Is a Deathbed Vision? (1:29:10) Why Do Some People Experience Terror on Their Deathbed? (1:34:14) Ghosts, Psychics, and Encounters With the Dead (1:41:47) Is There a Spiritual Explanation for UFOs? (1:42:29) What Is a Miracle? (1:51:42) Why Do People Ignore the Supernatural? Includes Paid Partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
- “there's no state religion in the West, certainly not in The United States, but in fact, is. It's scientism. It's the worship of science. It's the belief… that everything around us, everything we experience, can be measured by people in white coats.” - “Supernatural experiences are a feature of everyone's life.” Lee Strobel investigates “angels, demons, mystical dreams, near death encounters, and other mysteries of the unseen world.” - “Angels are created by God before humankind was created. They are spirit beings… to serve not only God, but also his people.” There is “anticipation that perhaps there could be angelic encounters,” with cases like John G. Paton and “muscular men in white garments with drawn swords.” - Strobel recounts an personal encounter: “an angel appeared to me.” Demons are “fallen angels,” and Christians can be “oppressed” but not possessed. - Miracles: “published in peer reviewed medical journals.” Barbara was “instantaneously totally healed of multiple sclerosis.” In Mozambique and Brazil, “average improvement in visual acuity was tenfold.” - Near-death experiences: a “life review” with a divine being; “deathbed visions” including “eighty eight percent of those dying people had a pre death vision.” - The soul: “every civilization believed in the spirit, a soul that continues to live on after we die.” The Holy Spirit “indwells you.” - A miracle is “a temporary exception to the ordinary course of nature” to show God has acted in history; one should not ignore the supernatural.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: So we're told there's no state religion in the West, certainly not in The United States, but in fact, is. It's scientism. It's the worship of science. It's the belief, and all of us learn this at a young age, that everything around us, everything we experience, can be measured by people in white coats. That's science. And if it can't be measured, it's not real. The problem with this religion is that our life, our daily experience contradicts it. Constantly, all of us are seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling things that can't be measured by science, but it doesn't make them any less real. These are, by definition, supernatural. Supernatural experiences are a feature of everyone's life, and if we're honest, we'll admit that. So what do they mean exactly? Well, Lee Strobel was a reporter. He worked for the Chicago Tribune and left and became a pastor. So he has religious faith, but also a grounding in empiricism, the desire to prove things. He is the perfect person to write the book that he did about the supernatural. That would be dreams, mystical dreams, near death experiences, miracles, ghosts. We sat down with him to hear just how common these experiences are and what they mean. Lee Strobleth. So you've written a book. I don't do a lot of book interviews, but couldn't resist this one. Seeing the supernatural, investigating angels, demons, mystical dreams, near death encounters, and other mysteries of the unseen world. Right. I think a lot of us sense or know on some level, in fact, think everybody knows on some level that there is a world that science can't measure or quantify. Yeah. That there is know, that there's there's stuff that we can't explain Yeah. But that it's it's no less real for our inability to explain it. So let's let's go through the list. Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, by the way, I I was an atheist. I'm trained in journalism and law, and so I'm always looking for corroboration. Yes. I'm looking for evidence. I'm looking for facts. So you're right. I think there's an intuitive sense that most people have that there's something beyond what we can see, touch, Speaker 0: or put Speaker 1: in a Worse. Eight out of 10 Americans believe that. But how do we know? What what is the evidence? And that's what I try to get into in the book. How can we be sure through corroborated evidence that indeed there are such things as miracles, as near death experiences, deathbed encounters, and mystical dreams, and things like that? Speaker 0: Yeah. Atheism is the is the leap of imagination. Speaker 1: It is. That's true. Speaker 0: It's hard to be an atheist. It's very true. Admire them in a way though. I feel sorry for the anyway. Okay. Angels. Yeah. What's an angel? Speaker 1: Fascinating. You know, angels are created by God before humankind was created. They are spirit beings, so they have they're not omniscient like God is. They're not omnipresent like God is. They are they don't age because there's no physical body. They don't marry because there's no physical body. They they're very intelligent, very smart, and they are according to the Bible, they are to serve not only God, but also his people. And what's interesting Speaker 0: The Christian bible Yeah. With the Hebrew Old Testament Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 0: Makes references. Is there any culture in the world that doesn't believe in some form of angel? Speaker 1: It's pretty universal. Yeah. It is pretty universal. Speaker 0: Like every culture. Speaker 1: Yeah. Just virtually every culture. Speaker 0: The Inuit all the way to the Maya. That's right. That's right. Canaanites. Speaker 1: And what's interesting about the Christian interpretation of angels is that it says in the book of Hebrews in the Bible that we should anticipate the possibility that we would encounter an angel. In other words, it says sometimes when you're providing hospitality to someone, unbeknownst to you, it's an angel. And so there's an anticipation that perhaps there could be angelic encounters. And so what I try to look at in the book are cases in which we have angelic encounters. People actually encounter an angel. I'll give you an example. There was a missionary named John G. Paton, p a t o n, from Scotland, and he went to an island in the South Pacific to be a Christian missionary. And he and his wife were living in a cottage there, and he's talking about Jesus. Well, the local tribes people didn't quite like that. And so one day, a mob of them came to burn down their house and kill them. So they see this mob forming, and he and his wife were in their house. And what can they do? They start to praise. I got it. Protect us. Help us. They're gonna kill us. They're gonna burn our house down. What do we do? And and they prayed all night long. And by dawn, the mob began to dissipate. A year later, he led the head of that mob to faith in Jesus Christ, and they're having a conversation. And John said to him, by the way, do you remember that day when you all came to burn down our house and kill us? Why didn't you do it? And the man said, well, who are all those men you had there? He said, I don't know, men. It was just my wife and I. He said, no. No. No. Your house was surrounded by these muscular men in white garments with drawn swords. There's no way we could have hurt you that night. Well, what's the explanation for that? I I think it could very well have been an angelic encounter that God had sent angels to protect him. And there's multiple numbers of cases like that. Speaker 0: Give me another. Speaker 1: Well, I had an encounter myself when I was 12 years old. It was the only dream I remember as a child. It was more of a vision than a dream. An angel appeared to me and started extolling heaven. How beautiful and wonderful heaven is. And I looked at him kind of offhandedly and said, well, you know, I'm gonna go there someday. And he looked at me and said, how do you know? And I was shocked by that. How do I know? And I started to kind of stumble around to justify my goodness. I said, well, I obey my parents pretty much, and I get good grades in school, and my friends liked me, and I'm trying to justify why I would get into heaven. And he looked at me and he said, that doesn't matter. And this chill went through my spine. How can this not matter? And he said, someday you'll understand, and then disappeared. Well, I wrote it off as being a bad pizza and ultimately became an atheist. But 16 later, as an atheist, my wife brought me to a church, and I heard the gospel for the first time. That salvation, that the doors of heaven are not flung open based on how nice you are to your parents or how how how good grades you get in school. It's based on the grace of God. It's not something we earn. It's a free gift of God's grace. And I heard that message for the first time, and my mind flashed back to that dream, and I thought, wait a minute. That's what he was trying to tell me back then. Speaker 0: Had you thought a lot about that dream and the subject Speaker 1: to me every once in a while. I think about it. I just suppress it. Well, that was a bad pizza. You know? But then I thought there's two forms of corroboration there. Number one, that angel told me something when I was 12 years old that I did not already know, that salvation is by grace. And secondly, he made a prophecy, a prediction that someday I would understand that came true sixteen years later. I think that may have been an angelic encounter that I had. I can't prove it, but that corroboration tells me maybe it really was. So we see cases like this around the world, and it was more than 200 references of angels in the bible. There's not 200? Yeah. Yeah. So lots of evidence that indeed this is part of God's creation. Speaker 0: Interesting. I've been to church. I don't know that I've I'm probably the wrong kind of church, but I don't know that I've ever heard anyone refer to it. Speaker 1: It's so funny you say that because I was giving a talk the other day, I said, you know, I've been a Christian now since 11/08/1981. I have never heard a sermon on the topic of angels ever, ever. Speaker 0: Why? Speaker 1: I don't know. And I go and so in this book, I delve into it, and and I learn some new things. For instance, do we have a guardian angel? Well, there's actually two passages in the bible that suggest maybe we do have a guardian angel. In one passage, Jesus is talking to a group and there's some children there, and he said, do not despise these little ones because their angels see the face of God every day in heaven. Who are their angels? And then secondly, Peter, when he escapes from prison, goes to a home where some Christians had gathered, and he knocks on the door. And the servant says, who's there? And he says, Peter. And she recognizes his voice, and she calls out to the other people and says, hey, Peter's here. Well, I said, can't be here. He's in prison. Peter can't be here. It must be his angel. So based on those two passages, there are Christians who believe that we have an angel assigned to us. In fact, I believe in the Orthodox Christian tradition, they believe an angel is assigned to you at the time you're baptized. I don't know. Are Christians who deny that, but it could be. But the other thing I learned in my investigation of angels, I thought, you know what? I don't think it's appropriate to pray to angels. I don't believe we're taught to do that. I think there's a slippery slope if you pray to angels that it might slip into worship of angels, which would be blasphemous. But there's nothing wrong with praying to God about angels. Martin Luther in the small catechism has a prayer, evening prayer that says, Lord, send your holy angels to protect me from the evil one. And so I I never used to do this, but I now make part of my prayer that God would send angels to protect me and my family, my ministry, my grandchildren, and so I I think that's totally appropriate to do. Speaker 0: Hate to brag, but we're pretty confident this show is the most vehemently pro dog podcast you're ever gonna see. We can take or leave some people, but dogs are non negotiable. They are the best. They really are our best friends. And so for that reason, we're thrilled to have a new partner called Dutch Pet. It's the fastest growing pet telehealth service. Dutch.com is on a mission to create what you actually need, affordable quality veterinary care anytime no matter where you are. They will get your dog or cat what you need immediately. It's offering an exclusive discount, Dutch, is for our listeners. You get $50 off your vet care per year. Visit dutch.com/tucker to learn more. Use the code Tucker for $50 off. That is an unlimited vet visit. $82 a year. $82 a year. We actually use this. Dutch has vets who can handle any pet under any circumstance in a ten minute call. It's pretty amazing, actually. You never have to leave your house. You don't have to throw the dog in the truck. No wasted time waiting for appointments. No wasted money on clinics or visit fees. Unlimited visits and follow ups for no extra cost, plus free shipping on all products for up to five pets. It sounds amazing like it couldn't be real, but it actually is real. Visit dutch.com/tucker to learn more. Use the code Tucker for $50 off your veterinary care per year. Your dogs, your cats, and your wallet will thank you. We're gonna get to demons in a second, but you used the phrase the evil one. Yeah. So at you know, the foundational Christian prayer is what we call the Lord's Prayer, handed down by Jesus himself. Right. And at the end of it, after, you know, we seek forgiveness and forgive those who've sinned against us, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil Yes. Is the way that most, I think, Americans learn the prayer. Yeah. But there's another interpretation that says delivers from the evil one. Speaker 1: That's right. Speaker 0: Yeah. And I I didn't know that Yeah. Until later in life, but I I suspect that that was kind of toned down because the evil one is Speaker 1: a little bit too too supernatural? Yeah. Well, you know, there is an embarrassment in American culture towards some of these supernatural phenomena. In other words, American Christians often wanna be accepted and seen as normal by their neighbors. Oh, yes. I go to church, and, yes, I believe in Jesus. But, you know, you won't catch me talking about angels or demons or miracles or any of this weird stuff. They wanna be accepted as being normal by other people. And so I think there's a lot of people that just don't delve into Speaker 0: There's a de emphasis. Speaker 1: There's a de emphasis churches and in many Christian lives. And yet Jesus clearly believed not only in angels, but he was an exorcist. You know, even skeptics will admit according to the Gospels that Jesus was an exorcist. So, believed in Satan. He believed in demons. Speaker 0: Well, it was one of the primary activities of life Exactly. On Speaker 1: Look at the Gospel of Mark. I think half of his activity is related in some way to fighting demons. So this is something as a Christian that we ought to believe, and then consider what are the implications of this. If this is true, if there is a demonic realm, if there is an angelic realm, what are the implications to me today? Speaker 0: Well, would put it in another way. Has there are you aware of any society in the known history of the human race that didn't believe Right. That there was a supernatural realm Exactly. Good and evil? Speaker 1: Yes. It's virtually universal. Speaker 0: Yeah. I've never heard of any culture that didn't believe that except postwar West. Yeah. Drop the atom bomb, get rid of the supernatural. Right. Because we're God now. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. Speaker 0: But before then, I mean, I I just think this was taken as a matter of course. Speaker 1: Right? Of course. Yeah. Naturally. Speaker 0: So if every society in known history reaches the same a version of the same conclusion Yeah. It suggests maybe there's something there? Speaker 1: It sure does. It sure does. Why Speaker 0: would you come up with that? Speaker 1: Exactly. You know, it's funny. People will say, well, you need extraordinary evidence to prove an extraordinary claim. Mhmm. Which I don't think is legitimate. I don't think that stands up to scrutiny. But let's take it for a moment on face value and say you need extraordinary evidence to prove an extraordinary claim. Well, the claim that there are demons is not an extraordinary claim. I was just thinking about it. Because 95% of humanity through history has believed in it. So if you're an atheist, the the onus is on you. You must present the extraordinary evidence that the demonic does not exist. Well, are also moments in Speaker 0: the life of every person who's awake and not on fentanyl, maybe even people who are on fentanyl, I hope, where you know that you are being acted on by an outside force of some kind, you have no idea what it is. Yeah. But there are moments when you are much better than yourself, much more empathetic, and there are other moments where you're seized by the desire to destroy for the sake of destruction, which is also doesn't make any sense. There's no kind of evolutionary biological accounting for that. Why would you wanna destroy something for no reason? Yeah. Another person, an object, but the impulse to destroy Right. Clearly the hallmark of evil. Speaker 1: Right? It is, and it's consistent with the Christian teaching that the demonic realm exists, that it is intent on luring us away from him and luring us down a pathway that is dark and that is dangerous. Speaker 0: But people feel that. You don't have to be a Christian to have felt that if you're if you're honest with yourself. There are moments where you're like, why did I do that? Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: Right? And yet, we do have cases where we have evidence that there is a a demonic realm. Speaker 0: Alright. So let's go let me ask you one last angel question because I'm trying to faithfully go in order based on because you can judge a book by its cover, I've decided. So you said that angels in the New Testament, perhaps also in the old, but it angels are described as present in our world. Yes. We will mistake angels for people. Speaker 1: Very well. That's right. That's predicted. Speaker 0: So do you think that happens? Yes. And if so, can you give us an example, and what would be the purpose of that? Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, it's interesting in Hebrews, the book of Hebrews, says that we will do it unbeknownst to ourselves. So in other words, the implication is that we will have angelic encounters, but we won't realize they're angels. And and I think that does happen. Now, I have a couple of cases in my book. One is a pastor who is driving his car in Ohio. He loses control of the car. He hits a telephone or an electric transformer kind of a pole type of thing. The wires fall down on his car. The doors are jammed shut. The electricity is coursing through the car so much so that the windshield starts to melt, and he's trapped in this car. He he don't know what to do. And he begins to pray. God, I'm stuck. I don't I don't know what to do. And a man, scruffy kind of guy, comes walking up to the car, and he opens the car whose doors were jammed. He opens the door. He reaches in. He lifts out this pastor and takes him about 50 yards away from the car, which then explodes. And he says to the pastor, he says, you're gonna be okay. You're okay now, but the police are on their way, and I can't be here when they get here. So you're just know that you're okay. And he walked away and disappeared. Now the people, the medics who came, the emergency technicians and so forth that came as a result of the accident, and they look at the cars, can't explain how this is possible that somebody could have opened that car door and not been electrocuted and rescued this pastor. And yet, it happened. And the pastor says, I believe it was an angel. Well, maybe. Could have been. How do you prove something like that? But, I mean, how do you explain it away naturally? How do you explain it away that he's able to come, grip the car door, and open up this car that had been jammed shut? So I think, yeah, there are cases where I think the logical explanation, the most reasonable explanation, if you don't rule out the supernatural at the outset, is that it it was an angelic encounter. Speaker 0: Amazing. Amazing. But they're probably more subtle Yeah. Experiences too. Speaker 1: Yes. No doubt. Speaker 0: Where you learn something, you encounter somebody out of nowhere who tells you something, or who tests your your compassion. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Could very well be. And even the the incident I had that seemed to, as an atheist, here I am in this church, nearly 30 years old, hearing this, understanding the gospel anyway for the first time, and that encounter I had with an angel is something that helped open my heart to the truth of the gospel. Amazing. Of course, had to spend two years of my life investigating it from a you know, to just to kinda conclude that it really was true, but it did propel me down that road toward God. Speaker 0: What are demons? Speaker 1: Demons are fallen angels. So the the Bible the Bible is is a little bit vague on this, but apparently what happened there was a Speaker 0: Kinda funny if I could just Yeah. Pause. This is my totally ignorant read of it. Yeah. But when the supernatural host wouldn't you know, all these supernatural beings are referred to in the bible, there's almost a sense in which the the writer is assuming the reader already knows all this. Speaker 1: Yes. That's right. It doesn't it doesn't have a passage that says, by the way You're right. Speaker 0: These things are real. Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me explain all this to you. You know, it doesn't do that, which is interesting. Speaker 0: Because the the I mean, the the culture at the time was familiar with this and there was like kinda no debate that there was a supernatural Speaker 1: It's sort of like the soul. Have a chapter in the book on the existence of the soul. And because a lot of scientists today will deny that the soul exists. The bible doesn't say, by the way, you have a soul and here's let me define it for you. It presumes that we have a soul. Speaker 0: Scientists will deny the soul exists. So most of what the big health companies sell is loaded with sugar and fillers and synthetic junk. It's probably not too good for you, and that's why we're interested in a company called Peak. It's a modern wellness brand that is actually healthy. It's got clean science backed methods, all kinds of blends trusted by doctors, loved by experts. It supports gut health, glowing skin, steady energy, not peaks and valleys, it makes it really easy for you to feel good all day long at your best. One of our favorites is RE fountain. It's a calming electrolyte designed to help your body recharge and recover overnight. It's got magnesium, no sugar at all, no artificial sweeteners, no fake flavors, and it gives your body what you need to hydrate and restore overnight, which is good. Everyone here has felt the difference, better sleep, more energy, smoother mornings. It has helped a lot of people here, and it can help you too. You get 20% off for life for life when you start your first month. Go to peaklife.com/tucker. Peak,pique, life.com/tucker. Highly recommend it. By the way, anyone who denies the soul exists, probably getting ready to genocide you. Speaker 1: It gets like kind of a soulless experience. Speaker 0: Well, if there's no human soul, then how is murder wrong? Speaker 1: Well, exactly. And they'll say free will is impossible, so there's no free will. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. But demons it started out with Lucifer, whose name means morning star, and he was kind of first among angels. Speaker 0: Name means morning star? Speaker 1: Yeah. Lucifer. He becomes Satan, and the name Satan literally means adversary. And so the implication of scripture is that this this very prominent angel named Lucifer wanted to be worshipped. He's the one who wanted to worship. And so his pride is what resulted in him falling from the angelic realm, becoming Satan, becoming someone and when you think about this, when Jesus encounters Satan, what is it Satan wanted from him? Worship. Satan Satan wanted Jesus to worship him. And that's what Lucifer wanted. He it was pride that got in the way. He becomes Satan, and a certain percentage of the angels accompanied him in this fall. This happened before the fall of humankind in the Garden Of Eden, so this predates that. We don't know how many angels accompany him, but there are a lot of angels. In in Revelation chapter five, there's a scene of Jesus on the throne being worshiped. And if you do the math, because it it talks about it a little cryptically, it was a 100,000,000 angels worshiping him at that time. So, there's a lot of angels, and a percentage of them fell with Lucifer. Became Satan, and angels became his minions, so to speak. Now, Satan is limited in his power. He's not omniscient like God is. He's not omnipresent like God is. In other words, a guy was telling me, he said, there's probably never a time when you and Satan have both been in the same zip code. Because he's only in one place at a time. And so he's got things he's doing. He'd probably never been in the same ZIP code you have, but his demons probably have been. And they carry out his will, which is to pull people away from God, to to discourage people in finding God, and to drag as many people to hell with him as they can. Now, his existence, he's sort of on a leash by God at this point. His ultimate destination in the Lake Of Fire is already predicted, So he has no future really, but he has influence, and Speaker 0: he Speaker 1: has certain powers. And he and the demon is very intuitive. They'll you'll think they know more than they know, and they go after people. I tell the story in my my book about a very prominent psychiatrist named Richard Gallagher, educated Ivy League University. I have a quote from the former president of the American Psychiatric Association calling him highest integrity, totally trained and and prominent in his field of psychiatry. Of course, he's a medical doctor because he's a psychiatrist. Just extolling him as an individual and as a scientist, as a psychologist, psychiatrist. And about twenty five years ago, he had two cats, and they got along great. They slept together. They played together. Everything was fine. Until one night, the cats started to attack each other viciously. I mean, they're trying to kill each other. They're clawing each other. They're snarling each other. They're biting each other. It was it was unbelievable. They they pulled them apart and put them into separate rooms and thought, what in the world was that all about? At 9AM the next day, the doorbell rings, and it was a preset appointment. A Catholic priest was bringing by a woman to be examined by doctor Gallagher. She claimed that she was a high priestess of a satanic cult, and he wanted her to be examined. Was she demonically possessed? Was she just crazy? Or what is this all about? So at 9AM, the doorbell rings for his appointment, and doctor Gallagher opens the door, and here's this woman who claims to be a high priestess of a satanic cult who kind of looks up at him and sneers at him and says, so how'd you like those cats last night? Speaker 0: Oh. Yeah. Speaker 1: There's something going on, and that took him on a journey where he, as a psychiatrist who understands what mental illness is and understands, comes to understand what demon possession and demon oppression is like. He spends the next twenty five years as kind of the go to guy in the medical realm for exorcists of the Catholic faith, and has witnessed amazing things that he documents, and I quote him in the book cases where we have a woman who, in front of eight eyewitnesses levitates off a bed for thirty minutes. Another case where people are speaking in Latin and other languages that they don't know, where they spontaneously are bruised and clawed, where one petite woman picked up a two hundred pound Lutheran deacon and threw him across a room. I mean, these are things, as he said, they go beyond psychiatry. He believes these are actual demonic possessions. Now, a true Christian cannot be demonically possessed. And the reason is a true Christian is indwelled by the Holy Spirit. He can't be indwelled by evil and good like that in the same way at the same time. So, Christians cannot be possessed, but they can be oppressed. They can be hectored. They can be bothered. They can be attacked by demons. And there are some amazing examples of that. I just mentioned a couple of people who are hectored or bothered by demons. Now, for Christians, the book of James says to if if you rebuke Satan, he'll go away. So, if you're a Christian, you don't have to be afraid that, you know, these demons are gonna somehow possess you or or or kill you or whatever. Greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world, the bible says. And so, you can the bible says if you if you shun Satan, he he has no choice. He's gotta he's gotta leave you. So for a Christian, you're protected. But I I fear for those that aren't don't have that kind of protection. There are cases of of demon possession that, as doctor Gallagher and others have documented, are corroborated in ways that I don't think they can be denied. Speaker 0: How can you corroborate a supernatural event? Speaker 1: I think by the when there's when there's no naturalistic explanation for what occurs. So you have a woman, for instance, in front of eight eyewitnesses levitating off a bed for thirty minutes. I don't know what the natural explanation for that would be. Speaker 0: That's Speaker 1: right. You know? So I think it points towards something beyond that. For me, as I investigate another area I investigate in the book, are miracles. And for me, if you have solid documentation, medical documentation, if you have multiple eyewitnesses with no motive to deceive, if you have no natural explanation that seems logical that can account for the phenomenon, and if it takes place in the context of prayer, then I think it's logical to conclude that a miracle has taken place. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And there have been miracles published in peer reviewed medical journals. I talk about one in my book. Here's a woman who was blind for twelve years with incurable condition. She went to a school for the blind. She learned to read braille. She walked with a white cane, and she married a Baptist pastor. And one night, they're getting ready to go to bed. She's already in bed. He comes over to her and he puts his hand on her shoulder and he begins to cry. And he begins to pray and he says, Lord, I know you can heal my wife. I know you can heal her right now, and I pray that you do it tonight. And with that, she opened her eyes to perfect vision. She said, was blind when my husband prayed for me. I hope she prayed. I opened my eyes. I can see. It's a miracle. That was researched by multiple medical researchers and published in a medical journal as a case study. What do you do with that? What do you do with that? Speaker 0: What did they do with it? Speaker 1: I think it kinda leaves it up to the reader to say, what's your conclusion? Speaker 0: They were upset by it. Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but certainly certainly does point toward a supernatural event. But here's what's interesting. There's a woman with a PhD from Harvard who's a professor at Indiana University, major secular university, and she said, I'd like to test whether miracles are possible. How can we scientifically test that? So here's what she did. Miracles tend to cluster in places where the gospel is just breaking in. And so we see them in China, in Mozambique, in Brazil, places where the gospel is taking root. We see miracles taking place in a disproportionate number. So she says, I'm gonna put it to the test. So she sends a team of scientists to Mozambique, and researchers to Mozambique, and they go into the bush, and they say, bring us all your deaf and blind. So they bring all the people deaf, blind, or with severe hearing or vision problems. They bring them and they test them scientifically right there. What is your level of vision? What is your level of hearing? They get that scientifically established. Then, immediately, they are prayed for in the name of Jesus by people who tend to have a track record of God using them that way. And then, immediately after that, they're tested again. Guess what they found? Improvement in virtually every case. In fact, get this. The average improvement in visual acuity was tenfold. There was a woman named Martine. When they first encountered her, she could not hear the equivalent of a jackhammer next door. After ten minutes of prayer, she could now hear normal conversations. Well, this team is flummoxed by this. It's like, what? Something is going on here. Virtually every person improves, of them dramatically so, like Martin. Let's see if we can replicate it. So, we'll go to another place where miracles are breaking in Brazil. They did the same test. They got the same results. In fact, was a woman in Brazil. She couldn't see me holding up three fingers from nine feet away, and after prayer for her healing, she could read the name tag of the person praying for her. Tucker, this was published. This is a scientifically rigorous study that was published in a peer reviewed, secular, scientific medical journal, major medical journal, the Southern Medical Journal published this. And I interview in my book, I interview the scholar that did that study, and I say, what do you make of this? And she said, something's going on. She said, this isn't we're not playing on people's emotions. This is not some televangelist trying to get people to send in their money. This is not some people at a predisposition for anything. Something is going on. And I I think she's right. I think it's miraculous. Speaker 0: It sounds it. And and I think every person who's awake has experienced something that just doesn't doesn't have a natural Speaker 1: 80%. I did a study. I hired a public opinion firm to do a scientifically accurate study of American adults, and I asked the question, have you ever had one experience, at least in your life, that you can only explain away as being a miracle of God? Thirty eight percent of American adults said yes. And by the way, let's say ninety nine percent of them are wrong. Let's say they think it was a miracle, but it was just a big coincidence. So let's just wipe out ninety nine percent and say, no, no, no, you thought it was a miracle. It really wasn't. Let's wipe away ninety nine percent. Guess what? That would still mean there would be a million miracles nearly in The United States alone. So you're right. So many people have experienced something in their life that they can only attribute to being a miracle of God. Speaker 0: The official story on nine eleven is a complete lie. The nine eleven report is a joke. Speaker 1: You have the CIA following two men all over the planet and then eventually even to America. Right? And you don't tell the FBI. Nine eleven commission cover. Speaker 0: So what did happen? What did the government know? What did foreign governments know? There was a cover up. Why? It's been nearly twenty five years. It is time Americans learned what actually happened. We're gonna tell you. We're releasing one episode per week. You're not gonna wanna wait. If you're a member, you don't have to. You get all five episodes the day it drops right then, ad free. Our first episode airs Thursday, 09/11, September 11. You will not wanna miss it. Join us now at tuckercarlson.com. When Jesus performs miracles healing people Yes. Making the lame walk, fixing the man with the withered hand Yeah. Even when he casts out demons from the man in the cemetery in the Sea Of Galilee. The reaction he gets from particularly religious authorities, the Pharisees, they hate it. Speaker 1: Yes. They hate it. Yes. They do. It's funny you say that. Why Speaker 0: is that? Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I I wrote a novel once. Fiction. Book of fiction. It was like a John Grisham thriller. Nobody read it. It was a big bomb. Nobody bought my book. But in that book, I have a politically ambitious pastor, and Speaker 0: Is is there anything worse? Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. And and there's a miracle that happens in his congregation, and a reporter comes to question him about it. And the reporters thinking, oh my gosh, the evidence is overwhelming something to him. And the and the pastor is downplaying it. No. No. No. No. No. That's just a coincidence. That can't be true. The pastor because he why? Because he wants to be he doesn't wanna be seen as being weird by the community at large, and it would poison his political chances. So I there is something true to that in Americans that we tend to suppress it. Speaker 0: Yeah. Not I mean but I mean, this is an account from two thousand years ago. No Americans in the New Testament, and they had the same reaction. Speaker 1: But the religion they they they did not like Jesus. They did not like his message. They did not like who he was. Speaker 0: I get it. Yeah. I think they'd be happy that the lame man can walk after thirty years, Speaker 1: you know. You would think At least they could say, hey. Good for you. That's great. By the way, we don't like this Jesus guy. But no. They didn't. They just said, we don't like this Jesus guy. Speaker 0: No. Actually, they plotted to kill the man he Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Speaker 0: So there's a couple references, at least a couple references in the New Testament to Satan being the ruler of the earth. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: What does that mean? Speaker 1: It means that in this realm, he, in many ways, has his way. In other words, he has access to be able to influence people and point them away from the one true hope that there is, which is God. And so he prowls about, as the Bible says, as a lion hoping to tear people apart spiritually. Speaker 0: I mean, if that's not true, then explain the first world war. Yeah. I mean, there is just no there's no explanation even now, over a hundred years later Yeah. For why that war started. Oh, you know, Archduke Ferdinand got shot dead in Sarajevo. Really? Okay. That's not a real explanation, actually. Did Christian Europe commit suicide? Yeah. And and there are many other wars and many other tragedies in all of our lives. We're like, that doesn't make any sense. It's clearly, you know, supernatural forces are acting I on Speaker 1: agree. And and so what I tried to do is say, okay, what evidence is there that there's more than what we can see and touch? And because I'm fascinated by this, and the reason I say that, Tucker, is because if this is true, if demons do exist, we ought to be heads up about it. Because the two biggest mistakes we can make about the demonic realm, number one, is to deny that they exist, and number two, to see a demon behind every bush and think they're more powerful than they are. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: They're they're both problems, but I think the biggest problem in our culture is to deny that there is a demonic realm, pretend like there isn't. So what are the hallmarks Speaker 0: of it then? Speaker 1: Well, I think some things you mentioned, we see manifestations of it in ways that defy natural explanations. And I think that's probably the best way of Speaker 0: Disorder, distraction, chaos, violence, hate, division. Speaker 1: And you think if if Satan were smart, which he is, would he go around the country and around the world trying to possess or bother average everyday people? Well, you know what? Much more efficient to go to Hollywood and to influence a bunch of people there who are very influential in, let's say, the entertainment industry. And let's say he encourages them to create films and television shows that are funny and that are creative and are fun, but there's an underlying message to them that there's a normalization of immoral activity that makes it normal. Because, you know, when we laugh, it opens us up to various possibilities. When we laugh, our defenses come down. So I'm thinking of a wonderful, TV show like Friends. Remember Friends, the TV show? Was on TV for years. Very popular show. Speaker 0: Only American who never saw it, but yeah. Speaker 1: But underlying that is a very ugly sexual ethic that that normalizes multiple sexual partners and that sort of thing. The kind of thing that Satan would love to inculcate into American culture. And you know what? I think it's much more efficient for Satan to influence movie makers and TV makers in Hollywood to create products that feed us stuff that, without us even realizing it, open us up to the occult, open us up to immoral activity, normalize it in ways that, well, if Monica can do that on Friends, I can certainly have sex on the first date with this guy. So Speaker 0: the way I, as a non theological, ignorant person, try and figure out whether something's good or bad, because it is an open question very often, it's like, is that good or bad? I'm not sure. Yeah. Are the people doing it at peace, joyful, happy? Yeah. Are they tormented? Yeah. And I know a lot of people in Hollywood, a lot of people I like actually, not too many happy people. Yeah. Some really tormented people. It's true. For real. Yeah. String of wrecked relationships, kids who hate them, trans kids, drug problems. Like, there's so much of that. Yeah. Do you think that's a fair way to assess? Speaker 1: I think because it is logical that if Satan were to try to influence a culture in a mass way, that that is a logical way that he would do it. And, oh, guess what? By the way, look at all the dysfunction we see in that community. It does seem to match up. Speaker 0: So if evil is acting through you, you are harmed too? Speaker 1: Generally, would say yes. You're gonna be someone who's trying to influence others. You may not realize the Speaker 0: full Yeah. Speaker 1: It does destroy you. Speaker 0: It certainly seems to. Speaker 1: Yeah. I think so. Who would you know, God created us so we could have a relationship with him, so he taught us how we can live in a way that maximizes who we are. And when we stray from that in in egregious ways, as many people have and do, there are implications for us. Speaker 0: If I were trying to subvert and destroy, I would go after religious leaders. Yeah. I'd have them, like, molest kids or Yeah. Freaky sex lives or steal money from the church. Yes. And you do I've always noticed that the leadership of Christian churches in just on the numerically Yeah. Way more likely to be screwed up than the people in the pews. Speaker 1: Interesting. Do you know Speaker 0: what I mean? You see these sex scandals with pastors, and you're like, how many people who are going to church every Sunday have sex lives like that? Probably not very many, but a pretty high percentage of pastors, and I feel like that is outside influence. Speaker 1: Like, too. Teachers who young kids look up to, you know, you can imagine when you were kindergarten, first grade, second grade, you looked up to your teachers. Not one Speaker 0: time. There's not one teacher I liked. Speaker 1: Oh, really? Nope. Oh, I sure did. Speaker 0: I never know. I felt it was Speaker 1: a No kidding. Speaker 0: An authoritarian situation. I was I was totally opposed from kindergarten on till I left college. There was not one day where I respected or liked any of them, not a single one. Speaker 1: That is that is so I I happened to go to public school growing up, and yet back then in the fifties and sixties, most of the teachers are Christians. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: And so, no, I had some wonderful teachers that taught me great lessons about life. Speaker 0: I You grew up in Speaker 1: a better American than I did. Speaker 0: In Southern California in the seventies, I thought they were all buffoons, freaks. I wasn't taking orders from them. I really dislike them. Sorry. Excuse me. Speaker 1: It's funny. Speaker 0: But but if you wanna lead people astray, you subvert their leaders, I guess. Yes. Speaker 1: Yes. Very much so. I mean, yeah, just put yourself in Satan's place. How are you gonna impact the maximum number of people? You're gonna wanna go after leaders. You're gonna wanna go after religious leaders. You're gonna wanna go after children. You're gonna you know, and influence them at a young age. Speaker 0: We see all of that. I often think this is such a wonderful country despite all its problems. I'm totally convinced it's the best country having been to a lot of countries. Yeah. But our leadership is the worst. Yeah. It's They're they're the worst. They're like the worst people I've ever met. Mhmm. And maybe that's not accidental. Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there could it be? I'll just raise the question. Could it be that some people have received some assistance from demonic Speaker 0: Certainly seems that way. Speaker 1: Terms of achieving what they've achieved. Speaker 0: How many happy I don't know how many political leaders you know, but how many happy ones have you met? Speaker 1: Gosh. Not a lot I trust. Put it that way. Speaker 0: Right. But they're all, like, tormented. Yeah. Sweaty and nervous and afraid. Don't you think those are signs? Speaker 1: I do. I do. And you look at if if Satan's gonna go after children, what is all this stuff about libraries doing children's readings of and drag shows to to little kids. Why? Why would that happen? You know what? Because if you can capture the mind of a child very young, it could influence them for the rest of their life. Speaker 0: What happens because we put up with it? Yeah. We do. A healthy society would not put up with That's true. For five minutes. That's true. Yeah. Sorry. They'd drive them out of the temple immediately with a whip. Right. Speaker 1: Yeah. Sorry. Excuse me. Speaker 0: So you think that you believe that demons roam the earth? Yes. How do you protect yourself? Speaker 1: The bible talks about in Ephesians talks about the full armor of God, and and is and I talk about this in the book. I have a half a chapter that looks at ways that we can protect ourselves. I think the key number one way is to be knowledgeable about scripture. Because if the bible is really from God, then that is the plumb line of truth. And if it's the plumb line of truth, we can measure everything against it. And so if we're tempted by something that violates that plumb line of truth, then we can be assured that's not from God. And so I think being familiar with what are the teachings of of the bible so that we can deter any effects, any attempts by Satan to lead us down a path that's clearly not biblical. So I I think that's probably the number one way. I think prayer is important. I I think honestly, and I say this granted as an evangelist who wants to drag as many people to heaven with me as I can, That's my life goal now as a former atheist. I will say the best way to protect yourself is to come into a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Because if you are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, you can't be possessed by Satan. And and you can tell Satan to flee, and the bible says he will flee. Speaker 0: What is the holy spirit? Speaker 1: Holy spirit, you know, the the the god is one what and three who's. The bible teaches there is one god. That's clear. But it also teaches that the father is God, that the son is God, and the holy spirit is God. And so we have three we have one what, which is God, and three persons. And so the holy spirit being disembodied and so forth comes into the life of someone when they repent of their sin, receive forgiveness through Christ. John one twelve says, but as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in his name. Speaker 0: But in practical terms, like what is the Holy Spirit? So the Holy Spirit comes into you, then what happens? Speaker 1: Yeah. The Holy Spirit indwells you. Now you've got a plumb line inside of you, so to speak, and you recognize I'm sure you see things in your life now as a Christian that you did before you were Christian. You say, why did I even do that? What was I messing with that? I certainly have those examples because now being indwelled by the Holy Spirit as a follower of Jesus, I have that plumb line to tell me what's godly and what's not. And so it's it it aids our conscience in understanding that. And by being indwelled by the holy spirit, it means we cannot be possessed by Satan as we see these demon possessions. And and those are increasing in numbers. The Catholic church has just added a whole bunch of people to who are trained in exorcisms. You see in charismatic ministries, deliverance ministries, I think we're seeing increase in demonic activity and in demons hectoring and harassing and oppressing and possessing people. I think we're seeing an increase in that. Speaker 0: Are there certain places? I mean, are physical places I have been where the hair on my arm Yeah. Go up. Yeah. Me too. And without any, you know, foreknowledge. Yeah. Not like this is a really spooky place. Watch this. It's like some place that I can think of a few of them in my life where it's like, oh, I don't know what this is about. What is that? Speaker 1: I think of Haiti. Think of I've Speaker 0: been to Haiti. I feel that strongly. Speaker 1: Good friend who has a ministry in Haiti, and that's that's a place that has opened itself up to the demonic. Speaker 0: Through human sacrifice. Speaker 1: Through voodoo, through all these things, and it is a place where you palpably feel evil often. I was in some remote parts of India and felt the same thing in many places. So I think there is just as miracles tend to break out in a positive way in places where the gospel is breaking in, I think we probably see pockets around the globe where Satan has a stronghold. I I I would think that Speaker 0: Physical places. Speaker 1: Physical places. Yeah. Like, I think Haiti is a good example of that. Speaker 0: I've been in some places in The US where I felt that really strongly. Like, I've been I was in a house once. I lived in a house once as a child where part of the house, there's something so wrong with it, and every person who lived in the house knew that. Interesting. Sound? Speaker 1: Could be. Could be. Could be an occultic thing. Yeah. Speaker 0: What's a mystical dream? Speaker 1: Mystical dreams, I talk about these in the book, is so fascinating to me. We have seen more Muslims become Christians in the last couple of decades than in the fourteen hundred years since Muhammad, and it's been estimated that a quarter to a third of them before they became a Christian had a Jesus dream. Now what's interesting about that is that these are corroborated dreams. I'll I'll tell you what I mean by that. First of all, a devout Muslim has no incentive in a let's say in a closed country where it's even illegal to share the Christian gospel. They have no incentive to have a dream as a product of their subconscious mind about Jesus, the Jesus of Christianity, because it might lead him into apostasy. It might lead him to a death sentence in certain countries. So there's no incentive for a devout Muslim to have a dream about Jesus. And yet, we are seeing this all over The Middle East, in closed countries, in in oppressive countries where Christians are persecuted and so forth. But here's the here's what I found most fascinating. In these cases, people are not going to sleep as a Muslim having a dream about Jesus and waking up as a Christian. That's not how it works. There is always something that points to a phenomenon or an event or a person outside the dream that corroborates the dream. Let let me give an example to clarify it. There was a woman named Noor in Cairo, mother of eight, devout Muslim. She goes to sleep. She has a dream in which Jesus visits her. It's like unlike any dream she's ever had. And she feels the love and the grace and the beauty of Jesus in such a profound way. She said, here I am, a woman in the presence of a man for the first time in my life. I didn't feel shame. I felt love, and she's just overwhelmed by this, and they're walking along a lakeshore. And she says, Jesus, why do you appear to me? I'm just a poor mother of eight in Cairo. And Jesus said, my friend will tell you tomorrow. And she said, who's who's your friend? And Jesus gestures to a man she didn't even realize was walking with them along the lakeshore because she was so mesmerized by Jesus. She didn't notice this guy. And he says, my friend will tell you tomorrow. She wakes up. The next day, goes to the crowded marketplace in Cairo on a Friday afternoon, and she sees the man from her dream. She goes up to him. Say, you're the one. You're the he said, woah. What are you talking about? You're the same glasses, same face, same clothes. You're the one. He said, did you have a dream about Jesus last night? Say, yes. Turned out he was an underground church planter. He didn't wanna go to the crowded marketplace in Cairo on Friday afternoon. It's chaotic, but he felt God had an assignment for him. So he went that day, nor encounters him from the dream. He pulls her aside, opens the Bible, and shares the gospel with her. That's the external corroboration that I'm talking about. It's not just something that takes place in your subconscious mind. There is an external factor to it. I'll give you another example. There was Speaker 0: a I'm asking you a pause. So one of the miracles there are at least two in the story you just told. Yeah. And one of them is that the pastor felt the call to go to the marketplace on a Friday, and he obeyed. Speaker 1: Exactly. Speaker 0: Have you had that experience in your life where you just feel like you're being told to do something and you obediently do it? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I I remember as a new Christian, I felt a really strong urge, I believe it was from God, to empty our bank account and send a anonymous cashier's check to a woman, a single woman in our church. Send it anonymously, and to do it on Friday. I don't know why, but it was on to do it on Friday. And I my wife and I both prayed about it said, yeah. We we both feeling this. It's odd, but we feel it's legit. So empty your bank account. Speaker 0: It was a fringe. Speaker 1: We empty the bank account. We got That's odd. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well, that is Lee, that is odd. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: Fair. Hey. It was only $500, but still for us, that was a lot of back then. Yeah. We send this check. Speaker 0: Did you know the woman? Speaker 1: Yeah. We knew her. Yeah. Nice woman. She had come to faith. She had actually had a lot of negative experience with Christians growing up, but she ended up coming to faith through a debate on Christianity. We did in our church between atheist Christian. And so I knew who she was and so forth. So on Monday morning, she calls me out of the blue and she's crying. She said, Lee, I don't know what to do. I said, what? What? What? What? What's going on? She said, my car broke down over the weekend. They say it's gonna cost $500 for me to fix my car. I don't have $500. I'm gonna lose my car. I'm gonna lose my job because I gotta have my car for the job. Would you pray for me that I would get this $500 somehow? And I said, absolutely. I'll pray for me. You know? Let's pray. Sure enough, that afternoon, because I'd mail in Friday, Monday afternoon, she gets this anonymous $500 check. There's Speaker 0: Did she ever tell her? Speaker 1: No. She doesn't not unless she's listening. Maybe she Speaker 0: Is she still around? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. She's still Yeah. She actually quit her nursing job and joined the staff of our church. She used to deliver my mail every day at the church. Wow. So I guess if she's listening, now she'll know. But Speaker 0: You've never told her. What year was that? Speaker 1: No. Oh, gosh. This was I was a new Christian at the church. It was probably 1987, somewhere in there. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0: So Almost forty years ago? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So so, yeah, I think that does happen where god influences you. Speaker 0: Do you try to be open? I do. Speaker 1: That I do. When I pray, I try to leave time at the end of the prayer. Say, god, I'm just gonna be quiet for a while. If there's anything you wanna tell me, anything you need to alert me to, any way you wanna lead me, I'm just gonna be quiet. I'm just gonna listen. And I just spend and normally, there's nothing. That day, there was $500. But normally I don't feel anything that specific. But it's okay because what's important is saying, I'm open, God, to anything you want me to do or what you want me to do. I'm open to it. Of course, anything, the Bible says, test the spirits. So if I'm feeling something, I wanna test it to make sure it's scriptural, because God's not gonna tell me to He's not gonna go tell me to poison my neighbor. All right? So it's gonna be consistent with scripture. But I wanna leave myself that opportunity to open myself up and say, god, I'm listening. And just pause for a while and and see, is there something? And on that day, there was something. It doesn't happen that often. But every once in a while, something will take place like that. Speaker 0: Amazing. So you sorry for the for the for cul de sac there. You believe there has been an uptick in mystical dreams. Speaker 1: I oh, definitely Middle East. In fact, get this. In Cairo, there's often an ad in the newspaper, And the ad says, call this number, and we'll tell you about the man in white you met in your dream last night. Really? Because there's so many of these. I interviewed for my book, seeing the supernatural. I interviewed, Tom Doyle, who's the world's leading expert on this. And Tom said, Lee, I could pick up the phone right now, and I could call Syria. I could call Iraq. I could call Iran. And I'll give you five more stories. They are so common. I'll give you one from my church in Houston, Texas. So I'm part of a church. I live part time in Houston, part of a church there. I used to be on the staff. And there was a woman who was born in The Middle East in a closed country where you can't share the gospel legally. And she had a dream when she was about 16 years old. And she said it was unlike any dream I ever had because it was like a projector was projecting an image of of Jesus. And it it influenced her. It touched her, but she didn't know what to do with it. And she said, was having problems with my life. I called out for help, that's what happened. Well, she ended up marrying a Muslim gentleman who was transferred to Houston, Texas because of the oil industry. So she moves into near our church, and she has another dream. And in this dream, she's up to her waist in a body of water. And there's a man with her with a book that's open, and the man is weeping. And she's thinking, what does that mean? Speaker 0: What what is that Speaker 1: supposed to be about? Well, a neighbor of hers goes to our church, and she invited her to come to Easter services at our church because her husband was out of town. So she came to Easter services. She's sitting on the aisle in the auditorium waiting for the service to begin, and she sees the man who was with her in the pond with the book. And she said, that's the guy. He was one in my dream when I was in this pond for no reason whatsoever, but I saw him. Well, his name is Alan Spawn. Alan is our pastor of baptism. Alan comes over. They introduce her. This woman ends up receiving Jesus Christ as her forgiver and leader. She becomes a Christian, and she learns about baptism. And sure enough, Allen Splawn takes her to the pond on our property where we baptize new believers. And with her water up to her waist, and with Alan, with a bible open, and weeping at the joy, baptizes her in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. So there's a case in my own church in Texas like that. Speaker 0: What did her husband say when he got home? Speaker 1: He doesn't know to be sure. Doesn't know. He doesn't know because she can't tell him. She said he would he would who knows what he would do? She can't she can't so she keeps she has a bible that we gave her. She keeps it hidden. And she doesn't go to church because she can't. So she has to keep it hidden from her husband. Wow. It's sad. But again, she didn't do nothing about baptism. What what kind of a what kind of a mystical dream you're standing up to your waist in water with a guy with a book who's crying? I mean, what in the world is that all about? Speaker 0: How do you tell a difference between a conventional dream and a mystical dream or are all dreams mystical? I I don't we don't know what dreams are just for the record as a matter of science. Yeah. I mean, no one's ever been able to explain what that is. Yeah. Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. God is in control of all. And so in a sense, everything is spiritual. Right? Yes. I mean, God rules and so forth. So in a sense, any dream is spiritual. I think to me a mystical dream is one that has a strong spiritual overtones. And there's no natural explanation to say this could come from your subconscious mind. You know, I think sometimes people will write off a dream as saying, well, that's just something that came from your subconscious. Maybe you saw something on television, didn't even realize it, and it was in your subconscious. And and but when you have examples like the one I gave, that doesn't make sense. I'll give you another example. There was a guy named Omar. And Omar grew up in a refugee camp in The Middle East, hated Jewish people, hated Jewish people. His life goal was to murder as many Jews as he could. And so he wanted to join Hamas. This is about a dozen years ago. He wanted to join Hamas. So he makes arrangements to meet with some leaders of Hamas. So, he's walking down the road toward that meeting, and he's blocked by a vision of Jesus who stops him and says, Omar, this is not the plan I have for your life. I want you to turn around. I want you to go home. This is not what I want for your life. Well, it freaks him out. Right? And so what does he do? He turns around. He goes home. That afternoon he lived in an apartment building. That afternoon, an American family was moving into the apartment across the hall. And he goes over there and he says, I just had this vision of Jesus telling me that and he explained the vision. And he said, as a Christian, can you tell me what it means? And this Christian man said, well, let me just do this. And he opens the bible, and he shares the gospel with him. And Omar not only becomes a Christian, but today he himself is an underground church planter in The Middle East. Omar's not his real name, by the way. So there you have, again, external corroboration. The image, the vision he had pointed him ultimately towards somebody else who then explained the gospel. That to me tells me this is more than a subconscious manifestation of something in our heads. Yes. And that's what as someone trained in journalism and law, I'm I'm looking for those kind of instances of corroboration. Speaker 0: Visions are something we associate with hallucinogenic drugs. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: What is that? What are the visions produced by Ayahuasca and LSD? Speaker 1: There are what I would call naturalistic visions. In other words, visions that are caused by things that we can determine are natural I mean, natural, medically natural. Chemicals. Chemicals. I'll give you an example. In 2011, I had a condition called hyponatremia. Hyponatremia is a severe drop in your blood sodium level, And it causes your brain to expand in your head. Well, there's no room for your brain to expand very And so you have hallucinations and almost died as a result of it. Speaker 0: Just out of the blue you had this. Speaker 1: Well, it was combination of several things I had. I was allergic to a drug that they'd given me because I'd lost my voice, and they gave me a steroid, and I was allergic to the steroid. I didn't know I had pneumonia, which can be a factor. I'd lost a kidney, which I wasn't aware of, and that regulates sodium. So I had all these weird things Speaker 0: going This was the Job period. Speaker 1: Yeah, was the Job period. That's right. So here I am. I had hallucinations. I saw demons. I saw weird things. Do I believe they were from God? No. Do I believe they're from Satan? No. Do I believe they were demons? No. I think they were a product of the medical problem I had of my sodium dropping so low. Speaker 0: How long did this go on? Where were you when you saw these visions? Speaker 1: I was at home, and I I finally felt unconscious. They called the paramedics. I woke up in the emergency room, and the doctor looked down at me and said, you're one step away from a coma, two steps away from dying. And then I went unconscious again. The problem That was the message the doctor gave me. I know. Pretty reassuring. I know. You think he could have sugarcoated it a little. The last thing you heard was you're dying? Yeah. I know. It's like, hey. Give me the e give me the sugarcoated first. But the problem is they have to raise the sodium level very carefully because twenty five percent of people with this condition end up mentally or physically disabled. So they have to raise it. So I was in the hospital about a week and they had to gently, slowly raise Speaker 0: One potato chip at a time. Speaker 1: Exactly. So do I think those were mystical? Do I believe I really saw a demon? Probably not. I think that was a medically induced phenomenon. I don't have any external corroboration other than to say it was these low sodium, that it's known to cause hallucinations, and it had hallucinations. So, I think there are medical things that can cause that. There are drugs that can cause hallucinations. Now, God is over all. I get that. But as a skeptic, I'm always looking for those cases where we have evidence that it's true beyond the experience itself. Speaker 0: There are certain forms of what we refer to as mental illness Yeah. Which is like a phrase invented by people pretty recently. Yeah. And clearly, are forms of mental illness, I I think, I guess, whatever that is. But there are certain people who have visions that are very unpleasant Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: And that bear, like, almost a precise resemblance to the demonic possession described Speaker 1: in the New Testament. May be they may be demonic. I I don't know. Yeah. I have to evaluate each one to try to determine Of course. Speaker 0: These are broad brushes, but you do is it fair to conclude that maybe not everything the shrink tells you is mental illness? Yeah. They can never describe where it comes from or how to fix it. They have no idea, But whatever. They know nothing, to be clear. But is it fair to assume that maybe some of that is spiritual? Speaker 1: Yes. I think it can very well be. I would look at, you know, all of the factors involved. Where we have the external corroboration like people left with scratches on them or bruises that cannot be explained, where we have levitation, where we have people speaking in a language they don't know, spontaneously speaking Latin, things like that. Then that is external corroboration to me that there's something demonic going on. It doesn't mean it couldn't be demonic. I'm just saying those are the cases I'm more comfortable in concluding that they're demonic when I've got that kind of external corroboration. Speaker 0: But speaking in languages you don't know is also can also be is described as in in the acts of the apostles as a manifestation of the holy spirit of God indwelling. Speaker 1: That's right. There there are other languages people speak, but not when they're spitting at at clergy who are trying to exercise Speaker 0: Oh, is that a sign? Speaker 1: Yeah. That could be a sign. Speaker 0: When you're cringing before a crucifix and you're trying to bite people. But what about glossolalia? What about speaking in tongues? Speaker 1: Yeah. That is a spiritual gift. There are Christians who believe that those gifts have ended with the apostolic age and are no longer applicable. There are other Christians who believe they are still active in this world. I believe they are still active. I've met Christians who speak in other tongues and others who interpret that. So I believe it's it's it's a gift that still takes place. I have not experienced that personally, but I have credible people who do and have experienced that. There are other Christians though who say, no, no, no, that ended with the apostles. So that's one of those side issues theologically that when we get to heaven, we can raise our hands and ask God, hey, what about that speaking in tongues thing? Speaker 0: Yeah. No. I know that there's a debate over I I have no idea what I think about it, but it is I guess just as a factual matter, it's true that there are people who seized by some unseen force begin speaking in languages they have never learned. Speaker 1: Yes. And often this is a generally, would say this is not a language that other people speak. It is a Or Speaker 0: have ever spoken? Speaker 1: Yeah. Have ever spoken. It's a spiritual language, But then there's someone, and this is a good corroboration, someone who can interpret that, and they understand it, this language, even though it is a spiritual language. It's not Latin. It's not Greek. It's a it's a spiritual language, and that someone else is able to hear, and they have a gift as well to interpret what is being said. I Speaker 0: gotta take you down one other back alley here So really they're both the Hebrews and the early Christians wrote extensively about the concept of a name. Yeah. God's name, holy be your name. Yes. In the name of God, the name of Jesus. What does that mean exactly? Why the name? Speaker 1: It means a couple things. I mean, to to do things in the name of God, Yahweh, in the name of God, is to do something consistent with how God is leading you and how scriptures would suggest that you act. So in other words, to act in God's name is to do something consistent with his character. So if I do something charitable to my personal loss and yet to someone else who's in great need, I do that in God's name. I do that because this is what the Bible teaches me. That should be generous and helpful to our people who are hurting. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: Names, you know, names can in scripture, scripture, you know, you you look at the name of Jesus as called Emmanuel. Well, he's never called Emmanuel. It said it was his name. But what that means in in the ancient language is that he's that he is god with us. That's what Immanuel means, God with us. And that was the name given to Jesus, but that wasn't the name he was called, but it was a name that was associated with Jesus. So names have all kinds of implications in in ancient Judaism and early Christianity. Speaker 0: Sure seems that way. Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean Now we just name people according to what yeah. Everybody's Speaker 0: What we see on friends. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Speaker 0: But but I mean, you know, observing Jews do not spell out the name of God. Right? They leave the vowels out. Speaker 1: That's Speaker 0: right. The name is itself holy. Just the name. Speaker 1: Yes. That's right. The name that's right. They would and and they would talk around the name. There's a verse in Luke 15 where it says that there is rejoicing in heaven. How does it go? Yeah. I can't think of the exact terminology, but basically, it's a way of saying there's rejoicing in heaven whenever a person becomes a Christian without saying the name of God rejoicing. It kinda talks around that a bit. So there there's a hesitation, and in fact, a something you didn't wanna do in ancient Jewish world is to use the name of God that was forbidden. Speaker 0: Like at all? Speaker 1: Yeah. You wouldn't use it. You would and you wouldn't spell it out. You talk around it. Speaker 0: Because it's so powerful. Speaker 1: So holy. Yeah. Speaker 0: It could hurt you. So near death experiences. Walk toward the light, Lee. What's a near death experience? Speaker 1: A near death experience is when a person is clinically dead. That is generally no brain waves, no respiration, No brain waves. Yeah. They're clinically dead. Yet, they're gonna be revived, and so they're dead for a period of time, clinically dead, but they're not permanently dead. So the body will be revived at some point. Speaker 0: So by the measurements of science, they're Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. Speaker 0: So maybe right there, if we just pause, like, maybe right there we have further evidence that science, while useful, of course, and life improving in some ways, does not have the tools to measure the totality of the experience. Speaker 1: Well, you know, it So they're Speaker 0: actually like, that's the failure. Like, they're obviously not dead. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. They are coming back. That's right. They all the signs are that they're dead. But, you know, the Bible says that, and Christianity teaches that when a person dies, their spirit separates from their body. And this is what we see in a near death experience. This is evidence for the soul, for the spirit. So the physical body is clinically dead. There's there's no sign of life in the body. They're still working on you. Speaker 0: Has has once again Yeah. Has there ever been a culture that we're aware of in the entire span of human history that did not believe in the soul? Speaker 1: They all did. Speaker 0: They thought that people were just meat puppets and Speaker 1: Exact I quote I quote experts in the book that talk about that, that there has every civilization believed in the spirit, a spirit, a soul that continues to live on after we die. Speaker 0: Our leaders don't believe that. Speaker 1: Well, that's not only tragic, it's dangerous. Because if you if you believe we are only our brain, we're only neurons that are firing, that means technically we have no free will. And seriously, you're saying we don't have free how do you punish someone for doing something wrong if they really didn't have free will? Speaker 0: Means we have no inherent rights. Speaker 1: We have no right and wrong. Speaker 0: Does a rock have a right now? Speaker 1: Exactly. Right. Speaker 0: So so maybe that should be the acid test for leadership. If you don't believe human beings have souls, if if that's not the basis of the way you understand other people, it's a separate person with a distinct and unique soul. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: If you don't believe that Yeah. You can have no power Yeah. In our society. Is that fair? Speaker 1: I like that. I like that. I never thought of that before, but I certainly wouldn't trust a person personally, morally, if if they believed only that we are Speaker 0: Trust me. I wouldn't I wouldn't give him a driver's license. Speaker 1: That's scary. It is scary. You don't Speaker 0: think other people have souls? Exactly. What? You're a psychopath? Speaker 1: Exactly. I have a interview in my book with a PhD from Cambridge University in neuroscience who says the evidence is so persuasive that, yes, indeed, we do have a soul. We do have Speaker 0: a spirit. Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaker 0: Yes. Thank you neuroscientists. Yeah. Speaker 1: Confirming. What's interesting is that we we have cases where people are clinically dead, their spirit separates from their body, and they see or hear things that would have been impossible for them to see or hear if their spirit had not actually separated from their body. So this is confirmation that the soul exists. And let me give you some examples. There's a woman named Maria. She was dying in a hospital in London, England. But she said, I was conscious the whole time. And so here they are working on her body, trying to bring her back. She said, my spirit floated out of my body. I met a divine being. But mainly, I'm looking down from the ceiling of the hospital room at the resuscitation efforts. I'm watching them trying to revive my body. And then at some point, the reviving works and the spirit returns to the body. And she says, by the way, see the ceiling fan here in this room, the hospital room? There's a red sticker on top of one of the blades of the ceiling fan. Now you couldn't see it from the room because it's on the top of one of the blades of the ceiling fan, but she saw it because from her perspective, near the ceiling watching resuscitation, she was looking down. So they got a ladder. They went up there. Sure enough, on the top of this blade, here's the sticker exactly as she has described it. That tells me that she really did have an out of body experience just as the Bible describes. And and this is extremely common. We have a woman woman, she's a young girl. She was nine years old, so I recall eight or nine. She drowned in a swimming pool, a YMCA. Horrible. Horrible. Her brain had swelled. She had no respiration, no heartbeat. She was clinically dead. So they brought her to the hospital to keep her body alive mechanically till they decided what to do, you know, And they continued to try to revive her. But as it turns out, three days later, she was revived and with no brain damage. And she said, by the way, Speaker 0: I was Seriously? Speaker 1: Yeah. And she said, I was conscious the whole time. And they said, well, that's not possible. And so the doctors who were skeptical said, here, here's a piece of paper and a crayon. Why don't you draw the emergency room where we took you when you were dead? So she picks up the crayon. She draws the emergency room exactly as it appears. And then she said, by the way, one night when my parents visited me in the hospital, I followed them home, and I watched as my mom she was making chicken soup with rice on the stove, and my dad was sitting in a certain chair, and he was looking in a certain direction. And her brother, she said, was playing with a GIO Joe Jeep in his bedroom, and these are the clothes that they were wearing. Everything was exactly correct. How do you explain that if she didn't have an authentic out of body experience while she was clinically dead? So this is affirmation that near death experiences do point toward a spirit, a soul that separates from our body at the time of death. Now, can return to our body if we're revived, and and that's what happens in these cases. Interestingly, there was a study done of twenty one blind people, either blind since birth or shortly thereafter. They were able to see or had visualized like perceptions during their near death experiences. So, there's a woman named Vicky. Wait. What? Yeah. Vicky Umapag, 26 years old. She's blind, virtually since birth. She is killed in a car crash. She's a passenger in a car. She's killed. But she said later, I was conscious the whole time. And her spirits floated out and she watched she's able to see the resuscitation efforts. She was able to see childhood friends who she'd never seen in person, but she knew intuitively who they were. Oh, that's Mary. That's Jimmy. She sees birds for the first time. She sees trees and so forth. And then when her body is revived and her spirit returns to her body, she's blind again. Medical researchers said this is impossible based on current medical knowledge. How does this happen? So there's a phenomenon here that tells me that there's corroboration, that there's something to this idea that we have a soul, a spirit that is different than our physical brain and body. And I'll add this. This is really important. John is I interview him for my book. John Burke is a Christian pastor who, with an engineering degree and science background, who studied 1,500 cases of near death experiences in-depth. He has video interviews with people and so forth. And here's his conclusion. He said, Lee, if you look at not how people interpret what happens because we all interpret things through our worldview. Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: If you're a Muslim, if you're a Hindu, you're gonna interpret things differently. Forget that. Set that aside. Just look at what actually takes place during a typical near death experience. That is consistent with the Christian bible. Speaker 0: And what is it that's consistent? Speaker 1: Well, things like encountering a divine being, things like encountering people who had preceded you in death, things like a life review where your life is reviewed, and you not only experience with this divine figure next to you who's encouraging you. It's not a judgmental kind of a way. It's you're judging yourself. You're you're reviewing every little action you took, but you're able for the first time to see the ripple effects of that. So I may have done something that hurt you years ago, and I never realized the impact that had on you and and how that caused you to do this, that, and the other thing. And yet in this life review, you you see not only what you did, and you did good and you did bad, but the ramifications of it. Yes. That's that takes place. Now, you're not permanently dead. The Bible says in Hebrews, we're appointed once to die and then the judgment. So, you would think that, biblically speaking, you would die and then you would encounter judgment. Well, you're not permanently dead. You're coming back. This is not your permanent death. So, this is kind of a taste, a foretaste of what death is like. But you're not permanently dead, you're just clinically dead. But you still have some of the attributes of what the Bible talks about in terms of a judgment. So I think reassuring for Christians like me who used to think, oh, that's New Age stuff. Near death experience, that's weird. There have been, Tucker, 900 scholarly articles written about near death experiences in medical journals and scientific journals over the last fifty years. This is a very well researched area, and they have concluded that there is no natural explanation that can account for all of the aspects of a near death experience. It's a fascinating area. And and and so I interview, as I said, John Burke, who's an expert on them, to give examples of this sort of thing. Speaker 0: What about pre death? Speaker 1: Yes. This is death visions. This is this is this is new. Can I just Speaker 0: add one editorial comment? Yeah. I'm so filled with rage I have to do it. That our culture systematically excludes real conversations about death. Obviously, we're very pro death, you know, kill your baby, euthanize your parents, whatever. We're all about death. But the actual experience of death is kind of cloaked for most people, and I don't I don't think they have any idea what it is when someone dies, process of dying. And so this is a welcome conversation. Speaker 1: Tucker, it's fascinating. These deathbed visions the difference between a near death experience and deathbed vision is in a near death experience, a person's gonna come back. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: In a deathbed vision, this is a vision someone has just before they die. They're not coming back. I mean, they're permanently gonna die. But we see a biblical example of this in the book of Acts. We see Stephen, who is described as being full of the holy spirit, who is on the verge of being stoned to death, and he looks up and he sees the heavens open up and he sees the father and the son together. So this is has a biblical precedent. But what is fascinating, and I think what you said is so true, people don't like to talk about it because Speaker 0: At all. Speaker 1: Yeah. At all. Because you're if you have one of these experiences before you die, you think they're gonna think I'm I've got dementia. They're gonna think I'm nuts. They're gonna they're gonna think you know? So a lot of people don't like to talk about it. So there's a researcher. He went to a huge hospice facility in New York State, and they went to all the dying people, and they said, please, as a favor, if you have a vision, a dream unlike any you've ever had, Tell us. Would you tell us? And so eighty eight percent of those dying people had a pre death vision that they reported on before they died. Eighty eight percent. I think the other twelve percent probably had one, but they died before they were able to say anything. Speaker 0: Or they were so high on morphine, they couldn't talk. Speaker 1: That's true. They get people get drugged up. That's true. Speaker 0: So there's that. I mean, obviously, you you don't want people to suffer. You wanna alleviate suffering and alleviate pain. I'm totally for that. I I wanna be clear about it. But there's also this custom which has grown to ubiquity. Now it's just it's everybody who dies, gets from the hospice nurses. Yeah. They kill you with morphine. Mean, yes. No one wants to say that out loud, but I've seen it. They they kill you with morphine. Yeah. And okay. First, we should just be honest about what's happening Yeah. Always. But second, we should be clear about the cost. So if people if Yes. Everybody on the way out is getting visions of some kind Yes. Maybe there's a purpose to the vision. Exactly. Maybe we shouldn't short circuit that. Speaker 1: And, Tucker, maybe there's also corroboration for these. So in other words, they did one study of 3,000 of these, and they determined this is not just something coming from the subconscious mind. There is something else here. And I'll give you the example of the corroboration. There was a woman named Doris. She's dying on her deathbed, and she has a pre death vision. And she sees the heavens open up, and she sees angelic beings, and she sees her father who had died several years earlier, and he's kind of almost welcoming her to the next realm. But then she gets this confused look on her face, and she says, wait a minute. Why is Vaida with my father? What what what why would why would Vaida be there? Makes no sense. What why would Vaida be there? And then she died. Vida was her sister. Her sister had died two weeks earlier, but no one had told Doris because she was so ill they didn't want the news to kill her. So they withheld the news that her sister Vida had died, and yet on her deathbed, she sees Vita in the world to come. That is fairly common. It actually happened with my father-in-law. So that to me is a corroboration. Another form of corroboration, get this, in the bible, in Luke 16, there's a story of a rich man and a beggar who both die. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And the rich man goes to a place of torment. Yeah. And the beggar goes to a place of bliss. Speaker 0: The rich man, by way, has walked past poor man every day Speaker 1: That's right. Speaker 0: And ignored him. Speaker 1: And ignored him. So the beggar, according to Jesus in verse 22, is accompanied by angels to heaven. That angels accompany him to heaven. And what's particularly fascinating is people who have predeth visions often see angels coming for them, just as Jesus suggested in that parable. So, for instance, the most famous skeptic in Canada, Charles Templeton. Charles Templeton was the pulpit partner of Billy Graham. He was gonna be the great evangelist. But then he went to a liberal seminary. He lost his faith. He wrote an ugly book called Farewell to God, My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith. And I got to know him. He became a friend. I actually wrote a book called The Case for Faith where I answered all his objections to Christianity, and we became friends. Anyway, he ended up coming back to faith in Christ before he died. And then he's on his deathbed, and he calls out to his wife, Madeleine. Madeleine, what what, Chuck? Can you see them? What what are you talking about? They're in the room. You can't see them. They're right here in this room. They're the angels. They're coming for me. Oh, they're so beautiful. Look at them. They're so the singing is so beautiful. They're coming for me. I'm going to heaven. I'm gonna be with god. That is incredibly common that people will see angels coming for them in that vision they had before that. Now now here's another bit of corroboration. Children who are dying will see angels, but not like you would expect them to be seen. In other words, let's say a five year old who's dying. What is their image of an angel? Well, it's a furry thing with or feathery thing with big wings. Cartoon. Right? It's a cartoon. They all have big wings. And so there's a case from a doctoral dissertation I read of a little girl who's dying, and she says, mommy, mommy, can you see the angels? They're coming for me. Oh, they're so beautiful. They're so beautiful. Their eyes. Look at their eyes. And the mother didn't wanna disappoint her. So she said, oh, yeah. Yeah. I see them. Look at their big wings. And little girl said, oh, mommy, they don't have wings. And she was able to describe them in vivid detail before she died. Wow. You would think if a child of that age was gonna have just a vision from their imagination of angels coming for them, they would have big wings. They don't. Speaker 0: In the hallmark version. Speaker 1: That's right. And in in case after case, they don't see the big wings. And by the way, the bible doesn't say that all angels have wings. So that to me is another very interesting dynamic of these pre death visions. Speaker 0: Not all people on their deathbed have joyful visions That's right. Or reunited with loved ones in the next world. Yes. There are many people who are in terror Yes. And horrified. Yes. And can you describe that and what is it? Speaker 1: Yes. We have this in near death experiences and in deathbed visions where people who are about to die have a glimpse, I believe, of a hellish experience to come. And they are frightened beyond belief and and scared beyond words. I'll give you an example of a near death vision where this happened. There's a man named Howard Storm. Howard was an atheist. He was a professor of art at a secular university, chairman of the art department, and he was visiting France, and he died of a heart attack. So here he is. He's in a French hospital. He's dead. But he said later, was conscious the whole time. It was a near death experience. His spirit had separated from his body. And there were some people in the hallway say, Howard, we've been waiting for you. Come with us. Come with us. So, he does. And he's walking down the hallway. His spirit is walking down the hallway with these people. And it goes on and on and on, and it gets darker and darker. And then they're becoming abusive. And they're saying, come on, come on. Why are you so slow? And then they start to attack him. And he said, no horror movie can ever capture the horror of what they did to me. I mean, he was absolutely mauled. He said I was roadkill. Speaker 0: And he said, I called out to God. Like physically mauled. Speaker 1: Yes. Eyes gouged out, ears ripped off. It's just horror. And he calls out to Jesus, Jesus, rescue me. And this white oar becomes and brings him and rescues him from that, and he is restored. Well, ultimately, his body is revived. His spirit returns to his body. This is such a profound experience that he not only renounced his atheism, he not only quit his tenured position as chairman of the art department at a secular university, he not only became a Christian, he went to seminary, he became a pastor, and today he's a pastor of this little church, I think it's in Kentucky or Oklahoma or somewhere in the middle of nowhere serving God. That's how transformative this experience was. Speaker 0: Amazing. Speaker 1: But there are multiple cases of people having horrific in fact, one study of near death experiences said it was twenty four percent had negative experiences, not positive. Speaker 0: Doesn't feel like a good sign. Speaker 1: No. No. I mean, what it does to me is it's affirmation that, you know what? What the Bible tells us is true. There is a heaven. There is a hell. And every Speaker 0: society ever has thought that. Yeah. Society. And I think everyone intuitively knows that. Yeah. I've never had a near death experience, but the one time I thought I was gonna die many years ago, I was in a plane crash. I I was filled with sadness. I I had no peace at all. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. None. Only regret. Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. So I I did take that as a as a an indication I should change the way I was living, and I did. Speaker 1: Oh, god. You said in your life. Speaker 0: Well, I felt I felt that way, and certainly in retrospect, I think that. Yeah. But I remember thinking, wow, I'm gonna die. I was certain of it. And and I thought later, I thought that when people knew they were gonna die, they were filled with, like, peace and warmth and Yeah. Walked toward the light. That was Speaker 1: not my experience at all. It was like, man, I can't believe I did Speaker 0: a few things. Oh. And I've really felt sad about it. Yeah. So Speaker 1: Well, that's the reality. Well, but I guess it's Speaker 0: yeah, well, it was the reality that I experienced for sure, but I also think that it's what a blessing Yes. To have an opportunity to, you know, to to turn back Yeah. And change. Speaker 1: That's the thing about these near death experiences that you have another chance. You don't have it in deathbed vision, but you're gonna be revived, and then you have a choice to make. Is that the road I continue Speaker 0: to wanna Speaker 1: go down? Speaker 0: The first thing I did was quit drinking and then had a fourth child. Speaker 1: Wow. It's awesome. Speaker 0: Yeah. Was it was awesome. It was awesome. It was literally awesome. Wow. So yes. So I I think that there's something real there, and it does seem like a crime of some kind to deprive people of that Yeah. With drugs. Speaker 1: I know. Speaker 0: I know. Experiences it just like anything else. Yeah. Like, maybe there's a reason. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's not random. Maybe. You know, I'd encourage people who are watching or listening to this podcast. Next time you have a big family get together with the cousins and the uncles and the aunts and all that, ask people, do we have any family stories about deathbed visions or near death experiences? I bet you you'll find, oh, Uncle Bob had that experience or Cousins Jim had that experience. I was having dinner with seven people in Oklahoma City and four of them, we've talked about this, four of them had relatives who had pre death visions. I but I'm not surprised. It's incredibly common. Speaker 0: I've I've never asked that question at a dinner party, but I have asked, has anyone seen a ghost? Yeah. 100% of the time, there's some at the table who has. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. What is that? Speaker 1: Ghosts I have a chapter on ghosts and psychics in my book. The technical definition of a ghost is someone who dies but refuses to go into the afterlife. Their spirit refuses to go into the next life. I don't see that in the bible. So, I don't think that ghosts per se are from God. I think most likely an apparition that we interpret as being ghosts is most like a demonic apparition. Speaker 0: I think people feel that. Speaker 1: I I think so. Speaker 0: They feel have a bad rep. Speaker 1: Yes. You know? Yeah. They Speaker 0: No one no one is summoning ghosts. Speaker 1: It's not like Casper who's gonna bring you some flowers. Speaker 0: Know? Generally, are anti ghost. Yes. Yes. Ghost stories. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Ghosted. Yeah. It's not not a good connotation. Yeah. So I don't think that surprises anyone. Speaker 1: So I I do talk about ghosts, and and and I talk about psychics and the tricks that they use to convince people that they're Speaker 0: Are you pro psychic? Sorry? Are you pro psychic? Speaker 1: I'm anti psychic. Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. I am too. Why are you anti psychic? Speaker 1: Because the bible says do not consult mediums. Do not consult psychics. I mean, it's very clear. Multiple places in scripture do not do it. Speaker 0: Oh, it well, among the ancient Hebrews, that was a death penalty offense. Speaker 1: Exactly. It was. And so you just it's not something we wanted to mess with, and I think there's gotta be reasons for that. I think it because it opens the door to the demonic that you're trying to consult the dead. You're trying to find out something apart from what God might reveal through a psychic, through a medium who supposedly has a cultic wherewithal and is able to take you down that pathway. It's dangerous. And I talk in the book about the tricks that they use to I mean, there's things like cold readings and warm readings and hot readings where people who wanna fool you into thinking they know more about you than they do will employ that. They think, oh my gosh, this person knows all about me. No, they don't. They're just very clever people who are able to read certain things about you. Speaker 0: No. I mean, there of course, there's a lot of BS gypsy tricks. Speaker 1: But I'll tell you one case. Speaker 0: It's all real. True in the in the bible that, at least in my read of it, that they're taken seriously. Speaker 1: Well, there are cases That's Speaker 0: why it's a death penalty offense, not because not because it's fake, because Speaker 1: it's real. Because it can be real. And, yeah, that's a good way to argue it. There is a case in contemporary times where president Carter was president, and a two engine aircraft went down and crashed in Africa. And the United States government was trying to find it. I don't know why, but they they wanted to find that aircraft. And they had satellites repositioned looking for they could not find the wreckage of this airplane. And so the Stansfield Turner, who was the head of the CIA, consulted a medium, a psychic in California. She went into a trance, and she gave the longitude and latitude of where to find the plane. They went, they reoriented the satellites, and boom, there was a wreckage of the plane just as she had said. What do you do with that? That tells me she was in connection with something there. Now if the bible says don't be connecting with psychics, it was probably demonic. And why would she do that? Because now she's got credibility. Now the next time they wanna know something, let's go to that woman in California, told us where that plane was. She seems to have these abilities to know the future, to know things that we don't know, and now she has credibility. I think that was a way for Satan to give her credibility so that we'd be fooled into thinking into the future to take advantage of her psychic Yeah. Speaker 0: Best not to play with that stuff. Speaker 1: No. No. It's best to stay away from that. Speaker 0: So contacting dead relatives through a medium, Ouija boards, all that stuff, scary bad. Yeah. On the other hand, I mean, that's my position. Yeah. I'm sure it's yours. Yeah. I came to that position through experience, not just guessing. It's bad. However, I know a lot of decent, God fearing people who have said, well, I I really feel like I was contacted by a dead relative, a dead loved one. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's an interesting and I have a couple of cases I talked about in the book of that, that seemingly are corroborated. What do you do with that? Because Speaker 0: Why how is that inconsistent with your theology? Speaker 1: On the one hand, there are a couple of cases in scripture where the dead have come back like that. Elijah came back at the the transfiguration. Yep. So there's an example of a dead person coming back. There's the other example of in the old testament of a going to a medium and a dead person coming back, not because of the power of the medium because she was surprised it happened, but through the power of God, he allowed that dead person to come back. So there are a couple of perhaps precedents in scripture of dead people coming back. Re one of the reasons I'm skeptical is because when Jesus was talking about in Luke 16 about the rich man who died and the beggar who died, he talked about a gulf between the living and the dead. That concerns me. So that raises some questions in my mind. I think the transfiguration and the incident with what's called the medium of Endor in the Old Testament may be one offs. And those were unusual circumstances. So I'm Tucker, I don't I'm not quite sure what to do with it because I talk about a couple of cases in the book where a dead relative returns and a person talks to that relative, and then they disappear, and then their their child comes in, eight year old child says, I just saw grandpa. I just talked to him. So he experienced the same vision. Well, that's pretty weird. Yeah. Is that corroboration and so forth? Well, here's my concern. So many times the people have contact with these dead people. These are people that lived ungodly lives. And yet they say everything's fine. I'm fine. Everything's good. Just take care of the family. Tell everybody I love them. I'm good. Don't worry about me. That's the general message people get. Well, what does that say to someone who is thinking about what do I need to do to live a life that will bring me to heaven and to God? Well, uncle Tom came and told me he's fine. He didn't he was a he was a adulterer and a he never came to faith in Jesus. He's a, you know, bad guy. And yet he says he's fine in the afterlife. Wouldn't that be something that a demon might wanna imitate to send a false message? I I think maybe. So I guess I'm giving you two answers. One is there is some biblical precedent for a dead coming back, but I think they may be one offs. I'm not sure. I think there'd be a good motive for Satan to counterfeit that. You know, it says Satan can appear as an angel of light as a counterfeit, he can fool us into thinking he's something he's not. Would that be to his advantage to do, to mislead people? I think it could be. So I'm not quite sure where I'm at. Speaker 0: Are UFOs what we call UFOs spiritual entities? Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't get into UFOs in the book. It's a fascinating topic. Maybe I'll do another book on that, but so I didn't research it thoroughly. Having said that, though, it would not be an affront to my faith if indeed we found intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. The bible doesn't say that we are unique in that Speaker 0: No. It it doesn't. But but I wonder Speaker 1: Could they be spiritual? Is a question. Yeah. Yeah. Could be. It could be. Yes. Is it? I don't know. I I just not as knowledgeable on that to be able to give a strong opinion. Speaker 0: Last question. Miracles. Yeah. What is a miracle? Speaker 1: A miracle is an event brought about by the power of God that is a temporary exception to the ordinary course of nature for the purpose of showing that God has acted in history. So in other words, a lot of people Speaker 0: Nice definition. Speaker 1: Thank you. That's from Robert Purtill, who was a philosopher. He he he I thought that was the best definition I'd heard. Here's the problem. A lot of skeptics will say, I don't believe in miracles because you can't violate the laws of nature. So by definition, a miracle is impossible. We haven't Speaker 0: even settled on the laws of nature. They're so dumb. Speaker 1: Well, here's how I answer. Speaker 0: We don't even like, the laws of nature, really? Science every day challenges the laws of nature. Speaker 1: Especially with quantum physics and everything. Exactly. But I say, look, I have a glass of water here. If I were to drop it, the law of gravity would say it would hit the floor. Yeah. But if I drop it and you reached in and grabbed it before it hit the floor, you're not violating the law of gravity. You're not overturning the law of gravity. You're just intervening. And that's what a miracle is, is God intervening temporarily into his creation. He brought it about. So, of course, he could intervene. And, man Speaker 0: But again, our understanding of nature and its laws changes every day. Speaker 1: And it's so shallow. It's so shallow what we know and Speaker 0: what But, I mean, our, I mean, our view of what is natural is different now Yeah. From what it was five years ago. Speaker 1: Yeah. And what it'll be five years from Speaker 0: now. Exactly. Yeah. That's just the silliness and the shallowness of claims like that kind of shocked me. Speaker 1: It does. Speaker 0: So miracles but, you know, to the extent we can know, like, this is so unusual, like, this couldn't have happened accidentally. Speaker 1: Give you an example. Yeah. Please do. And this one I personally investigated and it's been widely documented. A woman named Barbara, she was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic, we got all those records with multiple sclerosis as a teenager. It was progressive. She got worse very quickly. So she just got worse and worse and worse, multiple hospitalizations to the point where the doctor said, look, and her parents said, look, next time she gets pneumonia, which she would get on a regular basis, we're just gonna let her die. Speaker 0: Let her go. Yeah. Speaker 1: Because we're just postponing the inevitable. So here she is on her deathbed. She hadn't walked in seven years, so her muscles had atrophy. Her fingers were she was curled up like a pretzel. Her fingers were touching her wrists. Her feet were permanently extended. Her diaphragm was one diaphragm was paralyzed. So her one lung was collapsed. The other lung was at half full. She had a tube in her throat that went to oxygen canisters in the garage. She was in hospice at home so she could breathe. So she got a tube in her throat. She had lost her urination and bowels and control of those. She'd lost her eyesight, so all she saw was gray shapes. And and she's on her deathbed. She's dying. Well, some people said, wait a minute. Let's call WMBI, the Christian radio station at the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, and asked people on the radio show to pray for poor Barbara. She's dying. So they did. Well, we documented that at least 450 people began praying for Barbara because they wrote letters to Barbara saying, I'm praying for you and to encourage her. So here we are in Pentecost Sunday nineteen eighty one. She is in her bedroom, and her aunt and two girlfriends are reading her some of these encouraging letters from people praying for her. And from the corner of the room where nobody was, she heard the voice of God. And the voice said, my child, get up and walk. Well, she hadn't walked in seven years. She had no muscle tone in her legs. She she pulled out the tube so she could talk, and she said, don't know what you're gonna think of this, but God just told me to get up and walk. Go find my parents. I want them to be here. So they ran out, but she couldn't wait. She jumped out of bed. She told me she said, Lee, the first thing I noticed, my feet were flat in the floor. And they hadn't been flat for years. They've been rigidly extended, but they were flat in the floor. Second thing I noticed, my hands had opened up like flowers, and they hadn't opened up in years. And then she said, the third thing I noticed, I could see. I said she said, wouldn't you think that'd be the first thing I noticed? It was actually the third thing I noticed. She was instantaneously completely healed of multiple sclerosis. Her mother came running in, fell to her knees, and grabbed her calves, and said, your muscle tone has come back. It was Pentecost Sunday. There was a service at their church, Wheaton Wesleyan Church. They went they decided to go and thank God that she was fine. She's dancing, literally dancing around the house with her father. So they go to church. They're in the back. The pastor gets up and says, does anybody have any announcements? Barbara comes walking down center aisle. People freaked out because they'd haven't seen her except in a wheelchair for seven years. They began singing spontaneously, Amazing Grace, I Once Was Blind, Now I See. Totally healed. She goes the next day to her doctor, one of her doctors. He said later, he said, I saw her walking down the hallway toward my office. My first thought was, oh, she died, and that's a ghost. He said, this is medically impossible, and it is medically impossible. She was instantaneously totally healed of multiple sclerosis. She ended up marrying a pastor, that little Wesleyan church in Fredericksburg, Virginia. And I got to know her sweetest woman. Is she still alive? She just recently they read this happened 1981, lived perfectly healthy all these years. She just died in Florida. They just retired just a few months ago. So she found but she completely healed and Speaker 0: So what the okay. That's a Speaker 1: What do you do with that? What do you do with that? Speaker 0: Well, that's a challenge to, like, the most basic understanding of everything. Yes. Right? Yep. So if she's on her deathbed from MS Yeah. Which is a well studied Yes. Disease, you know, like you would think that, you know, Harvard Medical School would just like cease cease operations until they figured I out what that Speaker 1: know. You know why? I mentioned to my doctor, I said, I told him the story, he said, it'd be interesting to know because there's plaque that develops in the brain in multiple sclerosis. It'd be interesting to know, did that plaque disappear? And I said, which is the greater miracle that the plaque would disappear or that God would totally heal her Exactly. With the plaque still there. I I don't know which a greater miracle Speaker 0: would be. I guess my question is was how could we in a in a advanced country allow a case like that Speaker 1: To go unnoticed Speaker 0: and unstudied. Speaker 1: I know. It was the next day. It was in in the Chicago Tribune, which most newspapers don't cover stuff like that. I mean, it's too speculative. Speaker 0: But did she get yeah. But that's not speculative. No. I mean, so she had a team of physicians saying it's time for her to go, and then she's dancing Yeah. And singing Amazing Grace and Hearing a Pastor. So, like but what were doctors calling in to say, I wanna study this case? Speaker 1: There are two doctors who wrote books about it. Wrote books about Yeah. Oh. Well, they they wrote books, and in the books, they talked about her case. Yes. So two of her physicians actually wrote about it in their books. Speaker 0: That's ingrained. Speaker 1: I I know. And and it's not the only one. I don't know. We don't have much time. Give you a real quick one. Yeah. There's a kid who was born, little baby, kept vomiting, couldn't keep down food, kept vomiting, vomiting, and they realized this baby has what's called gastroparesis, which is a paralysis of the stomach. It's an incurable condition. It happens from time to time. You can't live that way. No. So they operated and they put tubes in so that the food would go directly into the small intestine. I don't know if it went through the stomach that was paralyzed or whatever, but that way it's able he was able to live. And he lived that way until for fifteen years, sixteen years. He lived that way. There were restrictions on what he could eat. It was uncomfortable, but at least he was alive. Right? They bring him one day to a church and they asked the pastor, would you pray for him? Pastor puts his hand on his shoulder, begins to pray, and the kid said later, I felt an electric shock go through me at the time he was praying. And he was instantly healed of gastroparesis. There has never been a documented case of anyone ever healed of gastroparesis, a paralyzed stomach. He was totally normal. They went in. They took the tubes out. And today, he's totally healthy. He's a business guy, doing great. I just emailed with him the other day. That, again, this was researched by multiple medical researchers and published as a case study in a medical journal. And in the medical journal, it's probably like, here's what happened. You know? Speaker 0: So that's an incredible story. The girl being cured of MS is an incredible story. Everything you've said is amazing. But so many of the things you've said are also instantly recognizable Yeah. To everyone listening, whatever their religious faith or lack of religious faith as things that do happen, actually. It's real. Yeah. We all know Yeah. That there are things that happen to us and people we know well and love that are outside the ability of science to explain. God. They're supernatural. Yeah. So my final question to you, Lee Strobel, and this has been amazing. Thank you. Speaker 1: Oh, my Speaker 0: pleasure. Is why do we keep ignoring it? Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it goes back to what I said earlier. I think we're embarrassed sometimes by the supernatural that we're gonna think people are gonna think we're nuts. Speaker 0: But if that's real and it clearly is real, then, like, it puts everything else into perspective. Speaker 1: Yeah. And when when you take it seriously and when you look at it How could Speaker 0: you not take it seriously? Speaker 1: If you Speaker 0: up in a culture that tells you none of it's real and yet it's super obvious that it is super obvious Yeah. That it's real in some most general sense, like the supernatural is real. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Then why don't people talk about it all the time? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I think the fact that I've been a Christian since 11/08/1981, and I've never heard a sermon on the topic of angels in my life tells you something. I think I I think we we shy away because we we we wanna be accepted as normal. I I I know why else. Speaker 0: Out of bed on Sunday to sit in a church where they're, like, pretending that nothing they say is true. Speaker 1: It's it's it's a good point. Speaker 0: If we believe if we If it's not supernatural, like, why are you bothering? Speaker 1: Exactly. If you believe in Jesus, you gotta believe in angels. You gotta believe in demons. You gotta believe in Satan. You gotta believe in heaven. You gotta believe in hell. Because if you believe in Jesus, he taught on all those things. Yeah. So my goodness. How could you not? I agree with you. How could you not? Speaker 0: Yeah. I mean, go on. Move on to something else. Yeah. Go play tennis or something. Speaker 1: And if if forty percent of Americans have had an experience that they can only attribute to a miracle of God, that means the other sixty percent probably know one of those forty percent. Right? Yeah. And all my brother had this experience. My cousin had. And we kinda say, what do we do with that? And and I think what we ought to do is look for that which is is corroborated and which is consistent with what we trust to be true, which for me are the Christian scriptures. Speaker 0: If you just fight against distraction Yeah. Consistently for just a day or two, like, I'm not gonna be distracted. I'm just gonna notice. That's it. That's all you do is just notice. I'm just gonna notice stuff. Yeah. If you do that as an exercise literally for forty eight hours, you will experience the supernatural. I think you're right. It's hard to do that. Yeah. Lee Strobel, thank you. Speaker 1: Hey. I enjoyed it. Wonderful. Great to meet you. Speaker 0: Thank you.
Saved - September 2, 2025 at 4:09 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Did Satan start WW1? https://t.co/gEr1yeCgWl

Video Transcript AI Summary
Speaker 0: So there's a couple references, at least a couple references in the New Testament to Satan being the ruler of the earth. Yes. What does that mean? Speaker 1: It means that in this realm, he, in many ways, has his way. In other words, he has access to be able to influence people and point them away from the one true hope that there is, which is God. And so he prowls about, as the Bible says, as a lion hoping to tear people apart spiritually. Speaker 0: I mean, if that's not true, then explain the first world war. Speaker 0: there is just no there's no explanation even now over a hundred years later Yeah. For why that war started. Oh, you know, where Stuttgart got shot dead in Sarajevo. Really? Okay. That's not a real explanation, actually. Why didn't Christian Europe commit suicide? Yeah.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: So there's a couple references, at least a couple references in the New Testament to Satan being the ruler of the earth. Yes. What does that mean? Speaker 1: It means that in this realm, he, in many ways, has his way. In other words, he has access to be able to influence people and point them away from the one true hope that there is, which is God. And so he prowls about, as the Bible says, as a lion hoping to tear people apart spiritually. Speaker 0: I mean, if that's not true, then explain the first world war. Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, Speaker 0: there is just no there's no explanation even now over a hundred years later Yeah. For why that war started. Oh, you know, where Stuttgart got shot dead in Sarajevo. Really? Okay. That's not a real explanation, actually. Why didn't Christian Europe commit suicide? Yeah.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

There’s a lot that science can’t explain, including most of what actually matters. Lee Strobel on the overwhelming evidence that the supernatural world is entirely real. (0:00) Introduction (3:02) Strobel’s Encounter With an Angel (8:30) Do We Have a Guardian Angel? (19:31) What Are Demons? (27:03) Can a Christian Be Possessed? (35:03) Why Did the Pharisees Hate When Jesus Performed Miracles? (38:24) Is Hollywood Possessed? (41:54) Are Christian Leaders Under Demonic Attacks? (45:08) How Do You Protect Yourself From Demons? (46:31) What Is the Holy Spirit? (48:18) Are There Specific Places on Earth That Are More Demonic Than Others? (49:45) What Is a Mystical Dream? (52:59) How to Hear From God (56:38) The Mystical Dream Phenomenon Happening in the Middle East (1:02:42) Visions, Psychoactive Drugs, and Hallucinations (1:05:30) Is There a Link to Mental Illness and Demonic Influence? (1:07:28) What Is the Gift of Speaking in Tongues? (1:09:05) The Weight of the Name of God (1:11:43) Angels and Near-Death Experiences (1:22:07) What Is a Deathbed Vision? (1:29:10) Why Do Some People Experience Terror on Their Deathbed? (1:34:14) Ghosts, Psychics, and Encounters With the Dead (1:41:47) Is There a Spiritual Explanation for UFOs? (1:42:29) What Is a Miracle? (1:51:42) Why Do People Ignore the Supernatural? Includes Paid Partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
Lee Strobel argues that the West has a “religion” of scientism, denying the reality of supernatural experiences. He blends journalism and empiricism to explore miracles, near-death experiences, mystical dreams, and angels/demons. He cites cases: John G. Paton’s island incident with warriors and white-clad figures; his own vision at age 12; repeated theme that some experiences point to heaven and salvation by grace. He discusses angels as God's messengers, guardian possibilities, and warnings against praying to them, preferring prayers to God. Demons, fallen angels, Satan’s activity, exorcisms, and possession vs oppression; a psychiatrist witness (Richard Gallagher) with cases of levitation, languages, and attacks. He reviews miracles documented in peer-reviewed journals (blindness to sight, MS healing Barbara), and scientifically studied miracles in Mozambique and Brazil. Near-death experiences and deathbed visions show life review, encounters with angels, and evidence of the soul. He argues for humility before the supernatural and personal spiritual readiness.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: So we're told there's no state religion in the West, certainly not in The United States, but in fact, is. It's scientism. It's the worship of science. It's the belief, and all of us learn this at a young age, that everything around us, everything we experience, can be measured by people in white coats. That's science. And if it can't be measured, it's not real. The problem with this religion is that our life, our daily experience contradicts it. Constantly, all of us are seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling things that can't be measured by science, but it doesn't make them any less real. These are, by definition, supernatural. Supernatural experiences are a feature of everyone's life, and if we're honest, we'll admit that. So what do they mean exactly? Well, Lee Strobel was a reporter. He worked for the Chicago Tribune and left and became a pastor. So he has religious faith, but also a grounding in empiricism, the desire to prove things. He is the perfect person to write the book that he did about the supernatural. That would be dreams, mystical dreams, near death experiences, miracles, ghosts. We sat down with him to hear just how common these experiences are and what they mean. Lee Strobleth. So you've written a book. I don't do a lot of book interviews, but couldn't resist this one. Seeing the supernatural, investigating angels, demons, mystical dreams, near death encounters, and other mysteries of the unseen world. Right. I think a lot of us sense or know on some level, in fact, think everybody knows on some level that there is a world that science can't measure or quantify. Yeah. That there is know, that there's there's stuff that we can't explain Yeah. But that it's it's no less real for our inability to explain it. So let's let's go through the list. Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, by the way, I I was an atheist. I'm trained in journalism and law, and so I'm always looking for corroboration. Yes. I'm looking for evidence. I'm looking for facts. So you're right. I think there's an intuitive sense that most people have that there's something beyond what we can see, touch, Speaker 0: or put Speaker 1: in a Worse. Eight out of 10 Americans believe that. But how do we know? What what is the evidence? And that's what I try to get into in the book. How can we be sure through corroborated evidence that indeed there are such things as miracles, as near death experiences, deathbed encounters, and mystical dreams, and things like that? Speaker 0: Yeah. Atheism is the is the leap of imagination. Speaker 1: It is. That's true. Speaker 0: It's hard to be an atheist. It's very true. Admire them in a way though. I feel sorry for the anyway. Okay. Angels. Yeah. What's an angel? Speaker 1: Fascinating. You know, angels are created by God before humankind was created. They are spirit beings, so they have they're not omniscient like God is. They're not omnipresent like God is. They are they don't age because there's no physical body. They don't marry because there's no physical body. They they're very intelligent, very smart, and they are according to the Bible, they are to serve not only God, but also his people. And what's interesting Speaker 0: The Christian bible Yeah. With the Hebrew Old Testament Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 0: Makes references. Is there any culture in the world that doesn't believe in some form of angel? Speaker 1: It's pretty universal. Yeah. It is pretty universal. Speaker 0: Like every culture. Speaker 1: Yeah. Just virtually every culture. Speaker 0: The Inuit all the way to the Maya. That's right. That's right. Canaanites. Speaker 1: And what's interesting about the Christian interpretation of angels is that it says in the book of Hebrews in the Bible that we should anticipate the possibility that we would encounter an angel. In other words, it says sometimes when you're providing hospitality to someone, unbeknownst to you, it's an angel. And so there's an anticipation that perhaps there could be angelic encounters. And so what I try to look at in the book are cases in which we have angelic encounters. People actually encounter an angel. I'll give you an example. There was a missionary named John G. Paton, p a t o n, from Scotland, and he went to an island in the South Pacific to be a Christian missionary. And he and his wife were living in a cottage there, and he's talking about Jesus. Well, the local tribes people didn't quite like that. And so one day, a mob of them came to burn down their house and kill them. So they see this mob forming, and he and his wife were in their house. And what can they do? They start to praise. I got it. Protect us. Help us. They're gonna kill us. They're gonna burn our house down. What do we do? And and they prayed all night long. And by dawn, the mob began to dissipate. A year later, he led the head of that mob to faith in Jesus Christ, and they're having a conversation. And John said to him, by the way, do you remember that day when you all came to burn down our house and kill us? Why didn't you do it? And the man said, well, who are all those men you had there? He said, I don't know, men. It was just my wife and I. He said, no. No. No. Your house was surrounded by these muscular men in white garments with drawn swords. There's no way we could have hurt you that night. Well, what's the explanation for that? I I think it could very well have been an angelic encounter that God had sent angels to protect him. And there's multiple numbers of cases like that. Speaker 0: Give me another. Speaker 1: Well, I had an encounter myself when I was 12 years old. It was the only dream I remember as a child. It was more of a vision than a dream. An angel appeared to me and started extolling heaven. How beautiful and wonderful heaven is. And I looked at him kind of offhandedly and said, well, you know, I'm gonna go there someday. And he looked at me and said, how do you know? And I was shocked by that. How do I know? And I started to kind of stumble around to justify my goodness. I said, well, I obey my parents pretty much, and I get good grades in school, and my friends liked me, and I'm trying to justify why I would get into heaven. And he looked at me and he said, that doesn't matter. And this chill went through my spine. How can this not matter? And he said, someday you'll understand, and then disappeared. Well, I wrote it off as being a bad pizza and ultimately became an atheist. But 16 later, as an atheist, my wife brought me to a church, and I heard the gospel for the first time. That salvation, that the doors of heaven are not flung open based on how nice you are to your parents or how how how good grades you get in school. It's based on the grace of God. It's not something we earn. It's a free gift of God's grace. And I heard that message for the first time, and my mind flashed back to that dream, and I thought, wait a minute. That's what he was trying to tell me back then. Speaker 0: Had you thought a lot about that dream and the subject Speaker 1: to me every once in a while. I think about it. I just suppress it. Well, that was a bad pizza. You know? But then I thought there's two forms of corroboration there. Number one, that angel told me something when I was 12 years old that I did not already know, that salvation is by grace. And secondly, he made a prophecy, a prediction that someday I would understand that came true sixteen years later. I think that may have been an angelic encounter that I had. I can't prove it, but that corroboration tells me maybe it really was. So we see cases like this around the world, and it was more than 200 references of angels in the bible. There's not 200? Yeah. Yeah. So lots of evidence that indeed this is part of God's creation. Speaker 0: Interesting. I've been to church. I don't know that I've I'm probably the wrong kind of church, but I don't know that I've ever heard anyone refer to it. Speaker 1: It's so funny you say that because I was giving a talk the other day, I said, you know, I've been a Christian now since 11/08/1981. I have never heard a sermon on the topic of angels ever, ever. Speaker 0: Why? Speaker 1: I don't know. And I go and so in this book, I delve into it, and and I learn some new things. For instance, do we have a guardian angel? Well, there's actually two passages in the bible that suggest maybe we do have a guardian angel. In one passage, Jesus is talking to a group and there's some children there, and he said, do not despise these little ones because their angels see the face of God every day in heaven. Who are their angels? And then secondly, Peter, when he escapes from prison, goes to a home where some Christians had gathered, and he knocks on the door. And the servant says, who's there? And he says, Peter. And she recognizes his voice, and she calls out to the other people and says, hey, Peter's here. Well, I said, can't be here. He's in prison. Peter can't be here. It must be his angel. So based on those two passages, there are Christians who believe that we have an angel assigned to us. In fact, I believe in the Orthodox Christian tradition, they believe an angel is assigned to you at the time you're baptized. I don't know. Are Christians who deny that, but it could be. But the other thing I learned in my investigation of angels, I thought, you know what? I don't think it's appropriate to pray to angels. I don't believe we're taught to do that. I think there's a slippery slope if you pray to angels that it might slip into worship of angels, which would be blasphemous. But there's nothing wrong with praying to God about angels. Martin Luther in the small catechism has a prayer, evening prayer that says, Lord, send your holy angels to protect me from the evil one. And so I I never used to do this, but I now make part of my prayer that God would send angels to protect me and my family, my ministry, my grandchildren, and so I I think that's totally appropriate to do. Speaker 0: Hate to brag, but we're pretty confident this show is the most vehemently pro dog podcast you're ever gonna see. We can take or leave some people, but dogs are non negotiable. They are the best. They really are our best friends. And so for that reason, we're thrilled to have a new partner called Dutch Pet. It's the fastest growing pet telehealth service. Dutch.com is on a mission to create what you actually need, affordable quality veterinary care anytime no matter where you are. They will get your dog or cat what you need immediately. It's offering an exclusive discount, Dutch, is for our listeners. You get $50 off your vet care per year. Visit dutch.com/tucker to learn more. Use the code Tucker for $50 off. That is an unlimited vet visit. $82 a year. $82 a year. We actually use this. Dutch has vets who can handle any pet under any circumstance in a ten minute call. It's pretty amazing, actually. You never have to leave your house. You don't have to throw the dog in the truck. No wasted time waiting for appointments. No wasted money on clinics or visit fees. Unlimited visits and follow ups for no extra cost, plus free shipping on all products for up to five pets. It sounds amazing like it couldn't be real, but it actually is real. Visit dutch.com/tucker to learn more. Use the code Tucker for $50 off your veterinary care per year. Your dogs, your cats, and your wallet will thank you. We're gonna get to demons in a second, but you used the phrase the evil one. Yeah. So at you know, the foundational Christian prayer is what we call the Lord's Prayer, handed down by Jesus himself. Right. And at the end of it, after, you know, we seek forgiveness and forgive those who've sinned against us, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil Yes. Is the way that most, I think, Americans learn the prayer. Yeah. But there's another interpretation that says delivers from the evil one. Speaker 1: That's right. Speaker 0: Yeah. And I I didn't know that Yeah. Until later in life, but I I suspect that that was kind of toned down because the evil one is Speaker 1: a little bit too too supernatural? Yeah. Well, you know, there is an embarrassment in American culture towards some of these supernatural phenomena. In other words, American Christians often wanna be accepted and seen as normal by their neighbors. Oh, yes. I go to church, and, yes, I believe in Jesus. But, you know, you won't catch me talking about angels or demons or miracles or any of this weird stuff. They wanna be accepted as being normal by other people. And so I think there's a lot of people that just don't delve into Speaker 0: There's a de emphasis. Speaker 1: There's a de emphasis churches and in many Christian lives. And yet Jesus clearly believed not only in angels, but he was an exorcist. You know, even skeptics will admit according to the Gospels that Jesus was an exorcist. So, believed in Satan. He believed in demons. Speaker 0: Well, it was one of the primary activities of life Exactly. On Speaker 1: Look at the Gospel of Mark. I think half of his activity is related in some way to fighting demons. So this is something as a Christian that we ought to believe, and then consider what are the implications of this. If this is true, if there is a demonic realm, if there is an angelic realm, what are the implications to me today? Speaker 0: Well, would put it in another way. Has there are you aware of any society in the known history of the human race that didn't believe Right. That there was a supernatural realm Exactly. Good and evil? Speaker 1: Yes. It's virtually universal. Speaker 0: Yeah. I've never heard of any culture that didn't believe that except postwar West. Yeah. Drop the atom bomb, get rid of the supernatural. Right. Because we're God now. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. Speaker 0: But before then, I mean, I I just think this was taken as a matter of course. Speaker 1: Right? Of course. Yeah. Naturally. Speaker 0: So if every society in known history reaches the same a version of the same conclusion Yeah. It suggests maybe there's something there? Speaker 1: It sure does. It sure does. Why Speaker 0: would you come up with that? Speaker 1: Exactly. You know, it's funny. People will say, well, you need extraordinary evidence to prove an extraordinary claim. Mhmm. Which I don't think is legitimate. I don't think that stands up to scrutiny. But let's take it for a moment on face value and say you need extraordinary evidence to prove an extraordinary claim. Well, the claim that there are demons is not an extraordinary claim. I was just thinking about it. Because 95% of humanity through history has believed in it. So if you're an atheist, the the onus is on you. You must present the extraordinary evidence that the demonic does not exist. Well, are also moments in Speaker 0: the life of every person who's awake and not on fentanyl, maybe even people who are on fentanyl, I hope, where you know that you are being acted on by an outside force of some kind, you have no idea what it is. Yeah. But there are moments when you are much better than yourself, much more empathetic, and there are other moments where you're seized by the desire to destroy for the sake of destruction, which is also doesn't make any sense. There's no kind of evolutionary biological accounting for that. Why would you wanna destroy something for no reason? Yeah. Another person, an object, but the impulse to destroy Right. Clearly the hallmark of evil. Speaker 1: Right? It is, and it's consistent with the Christian teaching that the demonic realm exists, that it is intent on luring us away from him and luring us down a pathway that is dark and that is dangerous. Speaker 0: But people feel that. You don't have to be a Christian to have felt that if you're if you're honest with yourself. There are moments where you're like, why did I do that? Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: Right? And yet, we do have cases where we have evidence that there is a a demonic realm. Speaker 0: Alright. So let's go let me ask you one last angel question because I'm trying to faithfully go in order based on because you can judge a book by its cover, I've decided. So you said that angels in the New Testament, perhaps also in the old, but it angels are described as present in our world. Yes. We will mistake angels for people. Speaker 1: Very well. That's right. That's predicted. Speaker 0: So do you think that happens? Yes. And if so, can you give us an example, and what would be the purpose of that? Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, it's interesting in Hebrews, the book of Hebrews, says that we will do it unbeknownst to ourselves. So in other words, the implication is that we will have angelic encounters, but we won't realize they're angels. And and I think that does happen. Now, I have a couple of cases in my book. One is a pastor who is driving his car in Ohio. He loses control of the car. He hits a telephone or an electric transformer kind of a pole type of thing. The wires fall down on his car. The doors are jammed shut. The electricity is coursing through the car so much so that the windshield starts to melt, and he's trapped in this car. He he don't know what to do. And he begins to pray. God, I'm stuck. I don't I don't know what to do. And a man, scruffy kind of guy, comes walking up to the car, and he opens the car whose doors were jammed. He opens the door. He reaches in. He lifts out this pastor and takes him about 50 yards away from the car, which then explodes. And he says to the pastor, he says, you're gonna be okay. You're okay now, but the police are on their way, and I can't be here when they get here. So you're just know that you're okay. And he walked away and disappeared. Now the people, the medics who came, the emergency technicians and so forth that came as a result of the accident, and they look at the cars, can't explain how this is possible that somebody could have opened that car door and not been electrocuted and rescued this pastor. And yet, it happened. And the pastor says, I believe it was an angel. Well, maybe. Could have been. How do you prove something like that? But, I mean, how do you explain it away naturally? How do you explain it away that he's able to come, grip the car door, and open up this car that had been jammed shut? So I think, yeah, there are cases where I think the logical explanation, the most reasonable explanation, if you don't rule out the supernatural at the outset, is that it it was an angelic encounter. Speaker 0: Amazing. Amazing. But they're probably more subtle Yeah. Experiences too. Speaker 1: Yes. No doubt. Speaker 0: Where you learn something, you encounter somebody out of nowhere who tells you something, or who tests your your compassion. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Could very well be. And even the the incident I had that seemed to, as an atheist, here I am in this church, nearly 30 years old, hearing this, understanding the gospel anyway for the first time, and that encounter I had with an angel is something that helped open my heart to the truth of the gospel. Amazing. Of course, had to spend two years of my life investigating it from a you know, to just to kinda conclude that it really was true, but it did propel me down that road toward God. Speaker 0: What are demons? Speaker 1: Demons are fallen angels. So the the Bible the Bible is is a little bit vague on this, but apparently what happened there was a Speaker 0: Kinda funny if I could just Yeah. Pause. This is my totally ignorant read of it. Yeah. But when the supernatural host wouldn't you know, all these supernatural beings are referred to in the bible, there's almost a sense in which the the writer is assuming the reader already knows all this. Speaker 1: Yes. That's right. It doesn't it doesn't have a passage that says, by the way You're right. Speaker 0: These things are real. Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me explain all this to you. You know, it doesn't do that, which is interesting. Speaker 0: Because the the I mean, the the culture at the time was familiar with this and there was like kinda no debate that there was a supernatural Speaker 1: It's sort of like the soul. Have a chapter in the book on the existence of the soul. And because a lot of scientists today will deny that the soul exists. The bible doesn't say, by the way, you have a soul and here's let me define it for you. It presumes that we have a soul. Speaker 0: Scientists will deny the soul exists. So most of what the big health companies sell is loaded with sugar and fillers and synthetic junk. It's probably not too good for you, and that's why we're interested in a company called Peak. It's a modern wellness brand that is actually healthy. It's got clean science backed methods, all kinds of blends trusted by doctors, loved by experts. It supports gut health, glowing skin, steady energy, not peaks and valleys, it makes it really easy for you to feel good all day long at your best. One of our favorites is RE fountain. It's a calming electrolyte designed to help your body recharge and recover overnight. It's got magnesium, no sugar at all, no artificial sweeteners, no fake flavors, and it gives your body what you need to hydrate and restore overnight, which is good. Everyone here has felt the difference, better sleep, more energy, smoother mornings. It has helped a lot of people here, and it can help you too. You get 20% off for life for life when you start your first month. Go to peaklife.com/tucker. Peak,pique, life.com/tucker. Highly recommend it. By the way, anyone who denies the soul exists, probably getting ready to genocide you. Speaker 1: It gets like kind of a soulless experience. Speaker 0: Well, if there's no human soul, then how is murder wrong? Speaker 1: Well, exactly. And they'll say free will is impossible, so there's no free will. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. But demons it started out with Lucifer, whose name means morning star, and he was kind of first among angels. Speaker 0: Name means morning star? Speaker 1: Yeah. Lucifer. He becomes Satan, and the name Satan literally means adversary. And so the implication of scripture is that this this very prominent angel named Lucifer wanted to be worshipped. He's the one who wanted to worship. And so his pride is what resulted in him falling from the angelic realm, becoming Satan, becoming someone and when you think about this, when Jesus encounters Satan, what is it Satan wanted from him? Worship. Satan Satan wanted Jesus to worship him. And that's what Lucifer wanted. He it was pride that got in the way. He becomes Satan, and a certain percentage of the angels accompanied him in this fall. This happened before the fall of humankind in the Garden Of Eden, so this predates that. We don't know how many angels accompany him, but there are a lot of angels. In in Revelation chapter five, there's a scene of Jesus on the throne being worshiped. And if you do the math, because it it talks about it a little cryptically, it was a 100,000,000 angels worshiping him at that time. So, there's a lot of angels, and a percentage of them fell with Lucifer. Became Satan, and angels became his minions, so to speak. Now, Satan is limited in his power. He's not omniscient like God is. He's not omnipresent like God is. In other words, a guy was telling me, he said, there's probably never a time when you and Satan have both been in the same zip code. Because he's only in one place at a time. And so he's got things he's doing. He'd probably never been in the same ZIP code you have, but his demons probably have been. And they carry out his will, which is to pull people away from God, to to discourage people in finding God, and to drag as many people to hell with him as they can. Now, his existence, he's sort of on a leash by God at this point. His ultimate destination in the Lake Of Fire is already predicted, So he has no future really, but he has influence, and Speaker 0: he Speaker 1: has certain powers. And he and the demon is very intuitive. They'll you'll think they know more than they know, and they go after people. I tell the story in my my book about a very prominent psychiatrist named Richard Gallagher, educated Ivy League University. I have a quote from the former president of the American Psychiatric Association calling him highest integrity, totally trained and and prominent in his field of psychiatry. Of course, he's a medical doctor because he's a psychiatrist. Just extolling him as an individual and as a scientist, as a psychologist, psychiatrist. And about twenty five years ago, he had two cats, and they got along great. They slept together. They played together. Everything was fine. Until one night, the cats started to attack each other viciously. I mean, they're trying to kill each other. They're clawing each other. They're snarling each other. They're biting each other. It was it was unbelievable. They they pulled them apart and put them into separate rooms and thought, what in the world was that all about? At 9AM the next day, the doorbell rings, and it was a preset appointment. A Catholic priest was bringing by a woman to be examined by doctor Gallagher. She claimed that she was a high priestess of a satanic cult, and he wanted her to be examined. Was she demonically possessed? Was she just crazy? Or what is this all about? So at 9AM, the doorbell rings for his appointment, and doctor Gallagher opens the door, and here's this woman who claims to be a high priestess of a satanic cult who kind of looks up at him and sneers at him and says, so how'd you like those cats last night? Oh. Yeah. There's something going on, and that took him on a journey where he, as a psychiatrist who understands what mental illness is and understands, comes to understand what demon possession and demon oppression is like. He spends the next twenty five years as kind of the go to guy in the medical realm for exorcists of the Catholic faith, and has witnessed amazing things that he documents, and I quote him in the book cases where we have a woman who, in front of eight eyewitnesses levitates off a bed for thirty minutes. Another case where people are speaking in Latin and other languages that they don't know, where they spontaneously are bruised and clawed, where one petite woman picked up a two hundred pound Lutheran deacon and threw him across a room. I mean, these are things, as he said, they go beyond psychiatry. He believes these are actual demonic possessions. Now, a true Christian cannot be demonically possessed. And the reason is a true Christian is indwelled by the Holy Spirit. He can't be indwelled by evil and good like that in the same way at the same time. So, Christians cannot be possessed, but they can be oppressed. They can be hectored. They can be bothered. They can be attacked by demons. And there are some amazing examples of that. I just mentioned a couple of people who are hectored or bothered by demons. Now, for Christians, the book of James says to if if you rebuke Satan, he'll go away. So, if you're a Christian, you don't have to be afraid that, you know, these demons are gonna somehow possess you or or or kill you or whatever. Greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world, the bible says. And so, you can the bible says if you if you shun Satan, he he has no choice. He's gotta he's gotta leave you. So for a Christian, you're protected. But I I fear for those that aren't don't have that kind of protection. There are cases of of demon possession that, as doctor Gallagher and others have documented, are corroborated in ways that I don't think they can be denied. Speaker 0: How can you corroborate a supernatural event? Speaker 1: I think by the when there's when there's no naturalistic explanation for what occurs. So you have a woman, for instance, in front of eight eyewitnesses levitating off a bed for thirty minutes. I don't know what the natural explanation for that would be. Speaker 0: That's Speaker 1: right. You know? So I think it points towards something beyond that. For me, as I investigate another area I investigate in the book, are miracles. And for me, if you have solid documentation, medical documentation, if you have multiple eyewitnesses with no motive to deceive, if you have no natural explanation that seems logical that can account for the phenomenon, and if it takes place in the context of prayer, then I think it's logical to conclude that a miracle has taken place. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And there have been miracles published in peer reviewed medical journals. I talk about one in my book. Here's a woman who was blind for twelve years with incurable condition. She went to a school for the blind. She learned to read braille. She walked with a white cane, and she married a Baptist pastor. And one night, they're getting ready to go to bed. She's already in bed. He comes over to her and he puts his hand on her shoulder and he begins to cry. And he begins to pray and he says, Lord, I know you can heal my wife. I know you can heal her right now, and I pray that you do it tonight. And with that, she opened her eyes to perfect vision. She said, was blind when my husband prayed for me. I hope she prayed. I opened my eyes. I can see. It's a miracle. That was researched by multiple medical researchers and published in a medical journal as a case study. What do you do with that? What do you do with that? Speaker 0: What did they do with it? Speaker 1: I think it kinda leaves it up to the reader to say, what's your conclusion? Speaker 0: They were upset by it. Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but certainly certainly does point toward a supernatural event. But here's what's interesting. There's a woman with a PhD from Harvard who's a professor at Indiana University, major secular university, and she said, I'd like to test whether miracles are possible. How can we scientifically test that? So here's what she did. Miracles tend to cluster in places where the gospel is just breaking in. And so we see them in China, in Mozambique, in Brazil, places where the gospel is taking root. We see miracles taking place in a disproportionate number. So she says, I'm gonna put it to the test. So she sends a team of scientists to Mozambique, and researchers to Mozambique, and they go into the bush, and they say, bring us all your deaf and blind. So they bring all the people deaf, blind, or with severe hearing or vision problems. They bring them and they test them scientifically right there. What is your level of vision? What is your level of hearing? They get that scientifically established. Then, immediately, they are prayed for in the name of Jesus by people who tend to have a track record of God using them that way. And then, immediately after that, they're tested again. Guess what they found? Improvement in virtually every case. In fact, get this. The average improvement in visual acuity was tenfold. There was a woman named Martine. When they first encountered her, she could not hear the equivalent of a jackhammer next door. After ten minutes of prayer, she could now hear normal conversations. Well, this team is flummoxed by this. It's like, what? Something is going on here. Virtually every person improves, of them dramatically so, like Martin. Let's see if we can replicate it. So, we'll go to another place where miracles are breaking in Brazil. They did the same test. They got the same results. In fact, was a woman in Brazil. She couldn't see me holding up three fingers from nine feet away, and after prayer for her healing, she could read the name tag of the person praying for her. Tucker, this was published. This is a scientifically rigorous study that was published in a peer reviewed, secular, scientific medical journal, major medical journal, the Southern Medical Journal published this. And I interview in my book, I interview the scholar that did that study, and I say, what do you make of this? And she said, something's going on. She said, this isn't we're not playing on people's emotions. This is not some televangelist trying to get people to send in their money. This is not some people at a predisposition for anything. Something is going on. And I I think she's right. I think it's miraculous. Speaker 0: It sounds it. And and I think every person who's awake has experienced something that just doesn't doesn't have a natural Speaker 1: 80%. I did a study. I hired a public opinion firm to do a scientifically accurate study of American adults, and I asked the question, have you ever had one experience, at least in your life, that you can only explain away as being a miracle of God? Thirty eight percent of American adults said yes. And by the way, let's say ninety nine percent of them are wrong. Let's say they think it was a miracle, but it was just a big coincidence. So let's just wipe out ninety nine percent and say, no, no, no, you thought it was a miracle. It really wasn't. Let's wipe away ninety nine percent. Guess what? That would still mean there would be a million miracles nearly in The United States alone. So you're right. So many people have experienced something in their life that they can only attribute to being a miracle of God. Speaker 0: The official story on nine eleven is a complete lie. The nine eleven report is a joke. Speaker 1: You have the CIA following two men all over the planet and then eventually even to America. Right? And you don't tell the FBI. Nine eleven commission cover. Speaker 0: So what did happen? What did the government know? What did foreign governments know? There was a cover up. Why? It's been nearly twenty five years. It is time Americans learned what actually happened. We're gonna tell you. We're releasing one episode per week. You're not gonna wanna wait. If you're a member, you don't have to. You get all five episodes the day it drops right then, ad free. Our first episode airs Thursday, 09/11, September 11. You will not wanna miss it. Join us now at tuckercarlson.com. When Jesus performs miracles healing people Yes. Making the lame walk, fixing the man with the withered hand Yeah. Even when he casts out demons from the man in the cemetery in the Sea Of Galilee. The reaction he gets from particularly religious authorities, the Pharisees, they hate it. Speaker 1: Yes. They hate it. Yes. They do. It's funny you say that. Why Speaker 0: is that? Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I I wrote a novel once. Fiction. Book of fiction. It was like a John Grisham thriller. Nobody read it. It was a big bomb. Nobody bought my book. But in that book, I have a politically ambitious pastor, and Speaker 0: Is is there anything worse? Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. And and there's a miracle that happens in his congregation, and a reporter comes to question him about it. And the reporters thinking, oh my gosh, the evidence is overwhelming something to him. And the and the pastor is downplaying it. No. No. No. No. No. That's just a coincidence. That can't be true. The pastor because he why? Because he wants to be he doesn't wanna be seen as being weird by the community at large, and it would poison his political chances. So I there is something true to that in Americans that we tend to suppress it. Speaker 0: Yeah. Not I mean but I mean, this is an account from two thousand years ago. No Americans in the New Testament, and they had the same reaction. Speaker 1: But the religion they they they did not like Jesus. They did not like his message. They did not like who he was. Speaker 0: I get it. Yeah. I think they'd be happy that the lame man can walk after thirty years, Speaker 1: you know. You would think At least they could say, hey. Good for you. That's great. By the way, we don't like this Jesus guy. But no. They didn't. They just said, we don't like this Jesus guy. Speaker 0: No. Actually, they plotted to kill the man he Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Speaker 0: So there's a couple references, at least a couple references in the New Testament to Satan being the ruler of the earth. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: What does that mean? Speaker 1: It means that in this realm, he, in many ways, has his way. In other words, he has access to be able to influence people and point them away from the one true hope that there is, which is God. And so he prowls about, as the Bible says, as a lion hoping to tear people apart spiritually. Speaker 0: I mean, if that's not true, then explain the first world war. Yeah. I mean, there is just no there's no explanation even now, over a hundred years later Yeah. For why that war started. Oh, you know, Archduke Ferdinand got shot dead in Sarajevo. Really? Okay. That's not a real explanation, actually. Did Christian Europe commit suicide? Yeah. And and there are many other wars and many other tragedies in all of our lives. We're like, that doesn't make any sense. It's clearly, you know, supernatural forces are acting I on Speaker 1: agree. And and so what I tried to do is say, okay, what evidence is there that there's more than what we can see and touch? And because I'm fascinated by this, and the reason I say that, Tucker, is because if this is true, if demons do exist, we ought to be heads up about it. Because the two biggest mistakes we can make about the demonic realm, number one, is to deny that they exist, and number two, to see a demon behind every bush and think they're more powerful than they are. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: They're they're both problems, but I think the biggest problem in our culture is to deny that there is a demonic realm, pretend like there isn't. So what are the hallmarks Speaker 0: of it then? Speaker 1: Well, I think some things you mentioned, we see manifestations of it in ways that defy natural explanations. And I think that's probably the best way of Speaker 0: Disorder, distraction, chaos, violence, hate, division. Speaker 1: And you think if if Satan were smart, which he is, would he go around the country and around the world trying to possess or bother average everyday people? Well, you know what? Much more efficient to go to Hollywood and to influence a bunch of people there who are very influential in, let's say, the entertainment industry. And let's say he encourages them to create films and television shows that are funny and that are creative and are fun, but there's an underlying message to them that there's a normalization of immoral activity that makes it normal. Because, you know, when we laugh, it opens us up to various possibilities. When we laugh, our defenses come down. So I'm thinking of a wonderful, TV show like Friends. Remember Friends, the TV show? Was on TV for years. Very popular show. Speaker 0: Only American who never saw it, but yeah. Speaker 1: But underlying that is a very ugly sexual ethic that that normalizes multiple sexual partners and that sort of thing. The kind of thing that Satan would love to inculcate into American culture. And you know what? I think it's much more efficient for Satan to influence movie makers and TV makers in Hollywood to create products that feed us stuff that, without us even realizing it, open us up to the occult, open us up to immoral activity, normalize it in ways that, well, if Monica can do that on Friends, I can certainly have sex on the first date with this guy. So Speaker 0: the way I, as a non theological, ignorant person, try and figure out whether something's good or bad, because it is an open question very often, it's like, is that good or bad? I'm not sure. Yeah. Are the people doing it at peace, joyful, happy? Yeah. Are they tormented? Yeah. And I know a lot of people in Hollywood, a lot of people I like actually, not too many happy people. Yeah. Some really tormented people. Speaker 1: It's true. Speaker 0: For real. Yeah. String of wrecked relationships, kids who hate them, trans kids, drug problems. Like, there's so much of that. Yeah. Do you think that's a fair way to assess? Speaker 1: I think because it is logical that if Satan were to try to influence a culture in a mass way, that that is a logical way that he would do it. And, oh, guess what? By the way, look at all the dysfunction we see in that community. It does seem to match up. Speaker 0: So if evil is acting through you, you are harmed too? Speaker 1: Generally, would say yes. You're gonna be someone who's trying to influence others. You may not realize the Speaker 0: full Yeah. Speaker 1: It does destroy you. Speaker 0: It certainly seems to. Speaker 1: Yeah. I think so. Who would you know, God created us so we could have a relationship with him, so he taught us how we can live in a way that maximizes who we are. And when we stray from that in in egregious ways, as many people have and do, there are implications for us. Speaker 0: If I were trying to subvert and destroy, I would go after religious leaders. Yeah. I'd have them, like, molest kids or Yeah. Freaky sex lives or steal money from the church. Yes. And you do I've always noticed that the leadership of Christian churches in just on the numerically Yeah. Way more likely to be screwed up than the people in the pews. Speaker 1: Interesting. Do you know Speaker 0: what I mean? You see these sex scandals with pastors, and you're like, how many people who are going to church every Sunday have sex lives like that? Probably not very many, but a pretty high percentage of pastors, and I feel like that is outside influence. Speaker 1: Like, too. Teachers who young kids look up to, you know, you can imagine when you were kindergarten, first grade, second grade, you looked up to your teachers. Not one Speaker 0: time. There's not one teacher I liked. Speaker 1: Oh, really? Nope. Oh, I sure did. Speaker 0: I never know. I felt it was Speaker 1: a No kidding. Speaker 0: An authoritarian situation. I was I was totally opposed from kindergarten on till I left college. There was not one day where I respected or liked any of them, not a single one. Speaker 1: That is that is so I I happened to go to public school growing up, and yet back then in the fifties and sixties, most of the teachers are Christians. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: And so, no, I had some wonderful teachers that taught me great lessons about life. Speaker 0: I You grew up in Speaker 1: a better American than I did. Speaker 0: In Southern California in the seventies, I thought they were all buffoons, freaks. I wasn't taking orders from them. I really dislike them. Sorry. Excuse me. Speaker 1: It's funny. Speaker 0: But but if you wanna lead people astray, you subvert their leaders, I guess. Yes. Speaker 1: Yes. Very much so. I mean, yeah, just put yourself in Satan's place. How are you gonna impact the maximum number of people? You're gonna wanna go after leaders. You're gonna wanna go after religious leaders. You're gonna wanna go after children. You're gonna you know, and influence them at a young age. Speaker 0: We see all of that. I often think this is such a wonderful country despite all its problems. I'm totally convinced it's the best country having been to a lot of countries. Yeah. But our leadership is the worst. Yeah. It's They're they're the worst. They're like the worst people I've ever met. Mhmm. And maybe that's not accidental. Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there could it be? I'll just raise the question. Could it be that some people have received some assistance from demonic Speaker 0: Certainly seems that way. Speaker 1: Terms of achieving what they've achieved. Speaker 0: How many happy I don't know how many political leaders you know, but how many happy ones have you met? Speaker 1: Gosh. Not a lot I trust. Put it that way. Speaker 0: Right. But they're all, like, tormented. Yeah. Sweaty and nervous and afraid. Don't you think those are signs? Speaker 1: I do. I do. And you look at if if Satan's gonna go after children, what is all this stuff about libraries doing children's readings of and drag shows to to little kids. Why? Why would that happen? You know what? Because if you can capture the mind of a child very young, it could influence them for the rest of their life. Speaker 0: What happens because we put up with it? Yeah. We do. A healthy society would not put up with That's true. For five minutes. That's true. Yeah. Sorry. They'd drive them out of the temple immediately with a whip. Right. Speaker 1: Yeah. Sorry. Excuse me. Speaker 0: So you think that you believe that demons roam the earth? Yes. How do you protect yourself? Speaker 1: The bible talks about in Ephesians talks about the full armor of God, and and is and I talk about this in the book. I have a half a chapter that looks at ways that we can protect ourselves. I think the key number one way is to be knowledgeable about scripture. Because if the bible is really from God, then that is the plumb line of truth. And if it's the plumb line of truth, we can measure everything against it. And so if we're tempted by something that violates that plumb line of truth, then we can be assured that's not from God. And so I think being familiar with what are the teachings of of the bible so that we can deter any effects, any attempts by Satan to lead us down a path that's clearly not biblical. So I I think that's probably the number one way. I think prayer is important. I I think honestly, and I say this granted as an evangelist who wants to drag as many people to heaven with me as I can, That's my life goal now as a former atheist. I will say the best way to protect yourself is to come into a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Because if you are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, you can't be possessed by Satan. And and you can tell Satan to flee, and the bible says he will flee. Speaker 0: What is the holy spirit? Speaker 1: Holy spirit, you know, the the the god is one what and three who's. The bible teaches there is one god. That's clear. But it also teaches that the father is God, that the son is God, and the holy spirit is God. And so we have three we have one what, which is God, and three persons. And so the holy spirit being disembodied and so forth comes into the life of someone when they repent of their sin, receive forgiveness through Christ. John one twelve says, but as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in his name. Speaker 0: But in practical terms, like what is the Holy Spirit? So the Holy Spirit comes into you, then what happens? Speaker 1: Yeah. The Holy Spirit indwells you. Now you've got a plumb line inside of you, so to speak, and you recognize I'm sure you see things in your life now as a Christian that you did before you were Christian. You say, why did I even do that? What was I messing with that? I certainly have those examples because now being indwelled by the Holy Spirit as a follower of Jesus, I have that plumb line to tell me what's godly and what's not. And so it's it it aids our conscience in understanding that. And by being indwelled by the holy spirit, it means we cannot be possessed by Satan as we see these demon possessions. And and those are increasing in numbers. The Catholic church has just added a whole bunch of people to who are trained in exorcisms. You see in charismatic ministries, deliverance ministries, I think we're seeing increase in demonic activity and in demons hectoring and harassing and oppressing and possessing people. I think we're seeing an increase in that. Speaker 0: Are there certain places? I mean, are physical places I have been where the hair on my arm Yeah. Go up. Yeah. Me too. And without any, you know, foreknowledge. Yeah. Not like this is a really spooky place. Watch this. It's like some place that I can think of a few of them in my life where it's like, oh, I don't know what this is about. What is that? Speaker 1: I think of Haiti. Think of I've Speaker 0: been to Haiti. I feel that strongly. Speaker 1: Good friend who has a ministry in Haiti, and that's that's a place that has opened itself up to the demonic. Speaker 0: Through human sacrifice. Speaker 1: Through voodoo, through all these things, and it is a place where you palpably feel evil often. I was in some remote parts of India and felt the same thing in many places. So I think there is just as miracles tend to break out in a positive way in places where the gospel is breaking in, I think we probably see pockets around the globe where Satan has a stronghold. I I I would think that Speaker 0: Physical places. Speaker 1: Physical places. Yeah. Like, I think Haiti is a good example of that. Speaker 0: I've been in some places in The US where I felt that really strongly. Like, I've been I was in a house once. I lived in a house once as a child where part of the house, there's something so wrong with it, and every person who lived in the house knew that. Interesting. Sound? Speaker 1: Could be. Could be. Could be an occultic thing. Yeah. Speaker 0: What's a mystical dream? Speaker 1: Mystical dreams, I talk about these in the book, is so fascinating to me. We have seen more Muslims become Christians in the last couple of decades than in the fourteen hundred years since Muhammad, and it's been estimated that a quarter to a third of them before they became a Christian had a Jesus dream. Now what's interesting about that is that these are corroborated dreams. I'll I'll tell you what I mean by that. First of all, a devout Muslim has no incentive in a let's say in a closed country where it's even illegal to share the Christian gospel. They have no incentive to have a dream as a product of their subconscious mind about Jesus, the Jesus of Christianity, because it might lead him into apostasy. It might lead him to a death sentence in certain countries. So there's no incentive for a devout Muslim to have a dream about Jesus. And yet, we are seeing this all over The Middle East, in closed countries, in in oppressive countries where Christians are persecuted and so forth. But here's the here's what I found most fascinating. In these cases, people are not going to sleep as a Muslim having a dream about Jesus and waking up as a Christian. That's not how it works. There is always something that points to a phenomenon or an event or a person outside the dream that corroborates the dream. Let let me give an example to clarify it. There was a woman named Noor in Cairo, mother of eight, devout Muslim. She goes to sleep. She has a dream in which Jesus visits her. It's like unlike any dream she's ever had. And she feels the love and the grace and the beauty of Jesus in such a profound way. She said, here I am, a woman in the presence of a man for the first time in my life. I didn't feel shame. I felt love, and she's just overwhelmed by this, and they're walking along a lakeshore. And she says, Jesus, why do you appear to me? I'm just a poor mother of eight in Cairo. And Jesus said, my friend will tell you tomorrow. And she said, who's who's your friend? And Jesus gestures to a man she didn't even realize was walking with them along the lakeshore because she was so mesmerized by Jesus. She didn't notice this guy. And he says, my friend will tell you tomorrow. She wakes up. The next day, goes to the crowded marketplace in Cairo on a Friday afternoon, and she sees the man from her dream. She goes up to him. Say, you're the one. You're the he said, woah. What are you talking about? You're the same glasses, same face, same clothes. You're the one. He said, did you have a dream about Jesus last night? Say, yes. Turned out he was an underground church planter. He didn't wanna go to the crowded marketplace in Cairo on Friday afternoon. It's chaotic, but he felt God had an assignment for him. So he went that day, nor encounters him from the dream. He pulls her aside, opens the Bible, and shares the gospel with her. That's the external corroboration that I'm talking about. It's not just something that takes place in your subconscious mind. There is an external factor to it. I'll give you another example. There was Speaker 0: a I'm asking you a pause. So one of the miracles there are at least two in the story you just told. Yeah. And one of them is that the pastor felt the call to go to the marketplace on a Friday, and he obeyed. Speaker 1: Exactly. Speaker 0: Have you had that experience in your life where you just feel like you're being told to do something and you obediently do it? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I I remember as a new Christian, I felt a really strong urge, I believe it was from God, to empty our bank account and send a anonymous cashier's check to a woman, a single woman in our church. Send it anonymously, and to do it on Friday. I don't know why, but it was on to do it on Friday. And I my wife and I both prayed about it said, yeah. We we both feeling this. It's odd, but we feel it's legit. So empty your bank account. Speaker 0: It was a fringe. Speaker 1: We empty the bank account. We got That's odd. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well, that is Lee, that is odd. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: Fair. Hey. It was only $500, but still for us, that was a lot of back then. Yeah. We send this check. Speaker 0: Did you know the woman? Speaker 1: Yeah. We knew her. Yeah. Nice woman. She had come to faith. She had actually had a lot of negative experience with Christians growing up, but she ended up coming to faith through a debate on Christianity. We did in our church between atheist Christian. And so I knew who she was and so forth. So on Monday morning, she calls me out of the blue and she's crying. She said, Lee, I don't know what to do. I said, what? What? What? What? What's going on? She said, my car broke down over the weekend. They say it's gonna cost $500 for me to fix my car. I don't have $500. I'm gonna lose my car. I'm gonna lose my job because I gotta have my car for the job. Would you pray for me that I would get this $500 somehow? And I said, absolutely. I'll pray for me. You know? Let's pray. Sure enough, that afternoon, because I'd mail in Friday, Monday afternoon, she gets this anonymous $500 check. There's Speaker 0: Did she ever tell her? Speaker 1: No. She doesn't not unless she's listening. Maybe she Speaker 0: Is she still around? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. She's still Yeah. She actually quit her nursing job and joined the staff of our church. She used to deliver my mail every day at the church. Wow. So I guess if she's listening, now she'll know. But Speaker 0: You've never told her. What year was that? Speaker 1: No. Oh, gosh. This was I was a new Christian at the church. It was probably 1987, somewhere in there. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0: So Almost forty years ago? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So so, yeah, I think that does happen where god influences you. Speaker 0: Do you try to be open? I do. Speaker 1: That I do. When I pray, I try to leave time at the end of the prayer. Say, god, I'm just gonna be quiet for a while. If there's anything you wanna tell me, anything you need to alert me to, any way you wanna lead me, I'm just gonna be quiet. I'm just gonna listen. And I just spend and normally, there's nothing. That day, there was $500. But normally I don't feel anything that specific. But it's okay because what's important is saying, I'm open, God, to anything you want me to do or what you want me to do. I'm open to it. Of course, anything, the Bible says, test the spirits. So if I'm feeling something, I wanna test it to make sure it's scriptural, because God's not gonna tell me to He's not gonna go tell me to poison my neighbor. All right? So it's gonna be consistent with scripture. But I wanna leave myself that opportunity to open myself up and say, god, I'm listening. And just pause for a while and and see, is there something? And on that day, there was something. It doesn't happen that often. But every once in a while, something will take place like that. Speaker 0: Amazing. So you sorry for the for the for cul de sac there. You believe there has been an uptick in mystical dreams. Speaker 1: I oh, definitely Middle East. In fact, get this. In Cairo, there's often an ad in the newspaper, And the ad says, call this number, and we'll tell you about the man in white you met in your dream last night. Really? Because there's so many of these. I interviewed for my book, seeing the supernatural. I interviewed, Tom Doyle, who's the world's leading expert on this. And Tom said, Lee, I could pick up the phone right now, and I could call Syria. I could call Iraq. I could call Iran. And I'll give you five more stories. They are so common. I'll give you one from my church in Houston, Texas. So I'm part of a church. I live part time in Houston, part of a church there. I used to be on the staff. And there was a woman who was born in The Middle East in a closed country where you can't share the gospel legally. And she had a dream when she was about 16 years old. And she said it was unlike any dream I ever had because it was like a projector was projecting an image of of Jesus. And it it influenced her. It touched her, but she didn't know what to do with it. And she said, was having problems with my life. I called out for help, that's what happened. Well, she ended up marrying a Muslim gentleman who was transferred to Houston, Texas because of the oil industry. So she moves into near our church, and she has another dream. And in this dream, she's up to her waist in a body of water. And there's a man with her with a book that's open, and the man is weeping. And she's thinking, what does that mean? Speaker 0: What what is that Speaker 1: supposed to be about? Well, a neighbor of hers goes to our church, and she invited her to come to Easter services at our church because her husband was out of town. So she came to Easter services. She's sitting on the aisle in the auditorium waiting for the service to begin, and she sees the man who was with her in the pond with the book. And she said, that's the guy. He was one in my dream when I was in this pond for no reason whatsoever, but I saw him. Well, his name is Alan Spawn. Alan is our pastor of baptism. Alan comes over. They introduce her. This woman ends up receiving Jesus Christ as her forgiver and leader. She becomes a Christian, and she learns about baptism. And sure enough, Allen Splawn takes her to the pond on our property where we baptize new believers. And with her water up to her waist, and with Alan, with a bible open, and weeping at the joy, baptizes her in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. So there's a case in my own church in Texas like that. Speaker 0: What did her husband say when he got home? Speaker 1: He doesn't know to be sure. Doesn't know. He doesn't know because she can't tell him. She said he would he would who knows what he would do? She can't she can't so she keeps she has a bible that we gave her. She keeps it hidden. And she doesn't go to church because she can't. So she has to keep it hidden from her husband. Wow. It's sad. But again, she didn't do nothing about baptism. What what kind of a what kind of a mystical dream you're standing up to your waist in water with a guy with a book who's crying? I mean, what in the world is that all about? Speaker 0: How do you tell a difference between a conventional dream and a mystical dream or are all dreams mystical? I I don't we don't know what dreams are just for the record as a matter of science. Yeah. I mean, no one's ever been able to explain what that is. Yeah. Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. God is in control of all. And so in a sense, everything is spiritual. Right? Yes. I mean, God rules and so forth. So in a sense, any dream is spiritual. I think to me a mystical dream is one that has a strong spiritual overtones. And there's no natural explanation to say this could come from your subconscious mind. You know, I think sometimes people will write off a dream as saying, well, that's just something that came from your subconscious. Maybe you saw something on television, didn't even realize it, and it was in your subconscious. And and but when you have examples like the one I gave, that doesn't make sense. I'll give you another example. There was a guy named Omar. And Omar grew up in a refugee camp in The Middle East, hated Jewish people, hated Jewish people. His life goal was to murder as many Jews as he could. And so he wanted to join Hamas. This is about a dozen years ago. He wanted to join Hamas. So he makes arrangements to meet with some leaders of Hamas. So, he's walking down the road toward that meeting, and he's blocked by a vision of Jesus who stops him and says, Omar, this is not the plan I have for your life. I want you to turn around. I want you to go home. This is not what I want for your life. Well, it freaks him out. Right? And so what does he do? He turns around. He goes home. That afternoon he lived in an apartment building. That afternoon, an American family was moving into the apartment across the hall. And he goes over there and he says, I just had this vision of Jesus telling me that and he explained the vision. And he said, as a Christian, can you tell me what it means? And this Christian man said, well, let me just do this. And he opens the bible, and he shares the gospel with him. And Omar not only becomes a Christian, but today he himself is an underground church planter in The Middle East. Omar's not his real name, by the way. So there you have, again, external corroboration. The image, the vision he had pointed him ultimately towards somebody else who then explained the gospel. That to me tells me this is more than a subconscious manifestation of something in our heads. Yes. And that's what as someone trained in journalism and law, I'm I'm looking for those kind of instances of corroboration. Speaker 0: Visions are something we associate with hallucinogenic drugs. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: What is that? What are the visions produced by Ayahuasca and LSD? Speaker 1: There are what I would call naturalistic visions. In other words, visions that are caused by things that we can determine are natural I mean, natural, medically natural. Chemicals. Chemicals. I'll give you an example. In 2011, I had a condition called hyponatremia. Hyponatremia is a severe drop in your blood sodium level, And it causes your brain to expand in your head. Well, there's no room for your brain to expand very And so you have hallucinations and almost died as a result of it. Speaker 0: Just out of the blue you had this. Speaker 1: Well, it was combination of several things I had. I was allergic to a drug that they'd given me because I'd lost my voice, and they gave me a steroid, and I was allergic to the steroid. I didn't know I had pneumonia, which can be a factor. I'd lost a kidney, which I wasn't aware of, and that regulates sodium. So I had all these weird things Speaker 0: going This was the Job period. Speaker 1: Yeah, was the Job period. That's right. So here I am. I had hallucinations. I saw demons. I saw weird things. Do I believe they were from God? No. Do I believe they're from Satan? No. Do I believe they were demons? No. I think they were a product of the medical problem I had of my sodium dropping so low. Speaker 0: How long did this go on? Where were you when you saw these visions? Speaker 1: I was at home, and I I finally felt unconscious. They called the paramedics. I woke up in the emergency room, and the doctor looked down at me and said, you're one step away from a coma, two steps away from dying. And then I went unconscious again. The problem That was the message the doctor gave me. I know. Pretty reassuring. I know. You think he could have sugarcoated it a little. The last thing you heard was you're dying? Yeah. I know. It's like, hey. Give me the e give me the sugarcoated first. But the problem is they have to raise the sodium level very carefully because twenty five percent of people with this condition end up mentally or physically disabled. So they have to raise it. So I was in the hospital about a week and they had to gently, slowly raise Speaker 0: One potato chip at a time. Speaker 1: Exactly. So do I think those were mystical? Do I believe I really saw a demon? Probably not. I think that was a medically induced phenomenon. I don't have any external corroboration other than to say it was these low sodium, that it's known to cause hallucinations, and it had hallucinations. So, I think there are medical things that can cause that. There are drugs that can cause hallucinations. Now, God is over all. I get that. But as a skeptic, I'm always looking for those cases where we have evidence that it's true beyond the experience itself. Speaker 0: There are certain forms of what we refer to as mental illness Yeah. Which is like a phrase invented by people pretty recently. Yeah. And clearly, are forms of mental illness, I I think, I guess, whatever that is. But there are certain people who have visions that are very unpleasant Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: And that bear, like, almost a precise resemblance to the demonic possession described Speaker 1: in the New Testament. May be they may be demonic. I I don't know. Yeah. I have to evaluate each one to try to determine Of course. Speaker 0: These are broad brushes, but you do is it fair to conclude that maybe not everything the shrink tells you is mental illness? Yeah. They can never describe where it comes from or how to fix it. They have no idea, But whatever. They know nothing, to be clear. But is it fair to assume that maybe some of that is spiritual? Speaker 1: Yes. I think it can very well be. I would look at, you know, all of the factors involved. Where we have the external corroboration like people left with scratches on them or bruises that cannot be explained, where we have levitation, where we have people speaking in a language they don't know, spontaneously speaking Latin, things like that. Then that is external corroboration to me that there's something demonic going on. It doesn't mean it couldn't be demonic. I'm just saying those are the cases I'm more comfortable in concluding that they're demonic when I've got that kind of external corroboration. Speaker 0: But speaking in languages you don't know is also can also be is described as in in the acts of the apostles as a manifestation of the holy spirit of God indwelling. Speaker 1: That's right. There there are other languages people speak, but not when they're spitting at at clergy who are trying to exercise Speaker 0: Oh, is that a sign? Speaker 1: Yeah. That could be a sign. Speaker 0: When you're cringing before a crucifix and you're trying to bite people. But what about glossolalia? What about speaking in tongues? Speaker 1: Yeah. That is a spiritual gift. There are Christians who believe that those gifts have ended with the apostolic age and are no longer applicable. There are other Christians who believe they are still active in this world. I believe they are still active. I've met Christians who speak in other tongues and others who interpret that. So I believe it's it's it's a gift that still takes place. I have not experienced that personally, but I have credible people who do and have experienced that. There are other Christians though who say, no, no, no, that ended with the apostles. So that's one of those side issues theologically that when we get to heaven, we can raise our hands and ask God, hey, what about that speaking in tongues thing? Speaker 0: Yeah. No. I know that there's a debate over I I have no idea what I think about it, but it is I guess just as a factual matter, it's true that there are people who seized by some unseen force begin speaking in languages they have never learned. Speaker 1: Yes. And often this is a generally, would say this is not a language that other people speak. It is a Or Speaker 0: have ever spoken? Speaker 1: Yeah. Have ever spoken. It's a spiritual language, But then there's someone, and this is a good corroboration, someone who can interpret that, and they understand it, this language, even though it is a spiritual language. It's not Latin. It's not Greek. It's a it's a spiritual language, and that someone else is able to hear, and they have a gift as well to interpret what is being said. I Speaker 0: gotta take you down one other back alley here So really they're both the Hebrews and the early Christians wrote extensively about the concept of a name. Yeah. God's name, holy be your name. Yes. In the name of God, the name of Jesus. What does that mean exactly? Why the name? Speaker 1: It means a couple things. I mean, to to do things in the name of God, Yahweh, in the name of God, is to do something consistent with how God is leading you and how scriptures would suggest that you act. So in other words, to act in God's name is to do something consistent with his character. So if I do something charitable to my personal loss and yet to someone else who's in great need, I do that in God's name. I do that because this is what the Bible teaches me. That should be generous and helpful to our people who are hurting. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: Names, you know, names can in scripture, scripture, you know, you you look at the name of Jesus as called Emmanuel. Well, he's never called Emmanuel. It said it was his name. But what that means in in the ancient language is that he's that he is god with us. That's what Immanuel means, God with us. And that was the name given to Jesus, but that wasn't the name he was called, but it was a name that was associated with Jesus. So names have all kinds of implications in in ancient Judaism and early Christianity. Speaker 0: Sure seems that way. Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean Now we just name people according to what yeah. Everybody's Speaker 0: What we see on friends. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Speaker 0: But but I mean, you know, observing Jews do not spell out the name of God. Right? They leave the vowels out. Speaker 1: That's Speaker 0: right. The name is itself holy. Just the name. Speaker 1: Yes. That's right. The name that's right. They would and and they would talk around the name. There's a verse in Luke 15 where it says that there is rejoicing in heaven. How does it go? Yeah. I can't think of the exact terminology, but basically, it's a way of saying there's rejoicing in heaven whenever a person becomes a Christian without saying the name of God rejoicing. It kinda talks around that a bit. So there there's a hesitation, and in fact, a something you didn't wanna do in ancient Jewish world is to use the name of God that was forbidden. Speaker 0: Like at all? Speaker 1: Yeah. You wouldn't use it. You would and you wouldn't spell it out. You talk around it. Speaker 0: Because it's so powerful. Speaker 1: So holy. Yeah. Speaker 0: It could hurt you. So near death experiences. Walk toward the light, Lee. What's a near death experience? Speaker 1: A near death experience is when a person is clinically dead. That is generally no brain waves, no respiration, No brain waves. Yeah. They're clinically dead. Yet, they're gonna be revived, and so they're dead for a period of time, clinically dead, but they're not permanently dead. So the body will be revived at some point. Speaker 0: So by the measurements of science, they're Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. Speaker 0: So maybe right there, if we just pause, like, maybe right there we have further evidence that science, while useful, of course, and life improving in some ways, does not have the tools to measure the totality of the experience. Speaker 1: Well, you know, it So they're Speaker 0: actually like, that's the failure. Like, they're obviously not dead. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. They are coming back. That's right. They all the signs are that they're dead. But, you know, the Bible says that, and Christianity teaches that when a person dies, their spirit separates from their body. And this is what we see in a near death experience. This is evidence for the soul, for the spirit. So the physical body is clinically dead. There's there's no sign of life in the body. They're still working on you. Speaker 0: Has has once again Yeah. Has there ever been a culture that we're aware of in the entire span of human history that did not believe in the soul? Speaker 1: They all did. Speaker 0: They thought that people were just meat puppets and Speaker 1: Exact I quote I quote experts in the book that talk about that, that there has every civilization believed in the spirit, a spirit, a soul that continues to live on after we die. Speaker 0: Our leaders don't believe that. Speaker 1: Well, that's not only tragic, it's dangerous. Because if you if you believe we are only our brain, we're only neurons that are firing, that means technically we have no free will. And seriously, you're saying we don't have free how do you punish someone for doing something wrong if they really didn't have free will? Speaker 0: Means we have no inherent rights. Speaker 1: We have no right and wrong. Speaker 0: Does a rock have a right now? Speaker 1: Exactly. Right. Speaker 0: So so maybe that should be the acid test for leadership. If you don't believe human beings have souls, if if that's not the basis of the way you understand other people, it's a separate person with a distinct and unique soul. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: If you don't believe that Yeah. You can have no power Yeah. In our society. Is that fair? Speaker 1: I like that. I like that. I never thought of that before, but I certainly wouldn't trust a person personally, morally, if if they believed only that we are Speaker 0: Trust me. I wouldn't I wouldn't give him a driver's license. Speaker 1: That's scary. It is scary. You don't Speaker 0: think other people have souls? Exactly. What? You're a psychopath? Speaker 1: Exactly. I have a interview in my book with a PhD from Cambridge University in neuroscience who says the evidence is so persuasive that, yes, indeed, we do have a soul. We do have Speaker 0: a spirit. Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaker 0: Yes. Thank you neuroscientists. Yeah. Speaker 1: Confirming. What's interesting is that we we have cases where people are clinically dead, their spirit separates from their body, and they see or hear things that would have been impossible for them to see or hear if their spirit had not actually separated from their body. So this is confirmation that the soul exists. And let me give you some examples. There's a woman named Maria. She was dying in a hospital in London, England. But she said, I was conscious the whole time. And so here they are working on her body, trying to bring her back. She said, my spirit floated out of my body. I met a divine being. But mainly, I'm looking down from the ceiling of the hospital room at the resuscitation efforts. I'm watching them trying to revive my body. And then at some point, the reviving works and the spirit returns to the body. And she says, by the way, see the ceiling fan here in this room, the hospital room? There's a red sticker on top of one of the blades of the ceiling fan. Now you couldn't see it from the room because it's on the top of one of the blades of the ceiling fan, but she saw it because from her perspective, near the ceiling watching resuscitation, she was looking down. So they got a ladder. They went up there. Sure enough, on the top of this blade, here's the sticker exactly as she has described it. That tells me that she really did have an out of body experience just as the Bible describes. And and this is extremely common. We have a woman woman, she's a young girl. She was nine years old, so I recall eight or nine. She drowned in a swimming pool, a YMCA. Horrible. Horrible. Her brain had swelled. She had no respiration, no heartbeat. She was clinically dead. So they brought her to the hospital to keep her body alive mechanically till they decided what to do, you know, And they continued to try to revive her. But as it turns out, three days later, she was revived and with no brain damage. And she said, by the way, Speaker 0: I was Seriously? Speaker 1: Yeah. And she said, I was conscious the whole time. And they said, well, that's not possible. And so the doctors who were skeptical said, here, here's a piece of paper and a crayon. Why don't you draw the emergency room where we took you when you were dead? So she picks up the crayon. She draws the emergency room exactly as it appears. And then she said, by the way, one night when my parents visited me in the hospital, I followed them home, and I watched as my mom she was making chicken soup with rice on the stove, and my dad was sitting in a certain chair, and he was looking in a certain direction. And her brother, she said, was playing with a GIO Joe Jeep in his bedroom, and these are the clothes that they were wearing. Everything was exactly correct. How do you explain that if she didn't have an authentic out of body experience while she was clinically dead? So this is affirmation that near death experiences do point toward a spirit, a soul that separates from our body at the time of death. Now, can return to our body if we're revived, and and that's what happens in these cases. Interestingly, there was a study done of twenty one blind people, either blind since birth or shortly thereafter. They were able to see or had visualized like perceptions during their near death experiences. So, there's a woman named Vicky. Wait. What? Yeah. Vicky Umapag, 26 years old. She's blind, virtually since birth. She is killed in a car crash. She's a passenger in a car. She's killed. But she said later, I was conscious the whole time. And her spirits floated out and she watched she's able to see the resuscitation efforts. She was able to see childhood friends who she'd never seen in person, but she knew intuitively who they were. Oh, that's Mary. That's Jimmy. She sees birds for the first time. She sees trees and so forth. And then when her body is revived and her spirit returns to her body, she's blind again. Medical researchers said this is impossible based on current medical knowledge. How does this happen? So there's a phenomenon here that tells me that there's corroboration, that there's something to this idea that we have a soul, a spirit that is different than our physical brain and body. And I'll add this. This is really important. John is I interview him for my book. John Burke is a Christian pastor who, with an engineering degree and science background, who studied 1,500 cases of near death experiences in-depth. He has video interviews with people and so forth. And here's his conclusion. He said, Lee, if you look at not how people interpret what happens because we all interpret things through our worldview. Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: If you're a Muslim, if you're a Hindu, you're gonna interpret things differently. Forget that. Set that aside. Just look at what actually takes place during a typical near death experience. That is consistent with the Christian bible. Speaker 0: And what is it that's consistent? Speaker 1: Well, things like encountering a divine being, things like encountering people who had preceded you in death, things like a life review where your life is reviewed, and you not only experience with this divine figure next to you who's encouraging you. It's not a judgmental kind of a way. It's you're judging yourself. You're you're reviewing every little action you took, but you're able for the first time to see the ripple effects of that. So I may have done something that hurt you years ago, and I never realized the impact that had on you and and how that caused you to do this, that, and the other thing. And yet in this life review, you you see not only what you did, and you did good and you did bad, but the ramifications of it. Yes. That's that takes place. Now, you're not permanently dead. The Bible says in Hebrews, we're appointed once to die and then the judgment. So, you would think that, biblically speaking, you would die and then you would encounter judgment. Well, you're not permanently dead. You're coming back. This is not your permanent death. So, this is kind of a taste, a foretaste of what death is like. But you're not permanently dead, you're just clinically dead. But you still have some of the attributes of what the Bible talks about in terms of a judgment. So I think reassuring for Christians like me who used to think, oh, that's New Age stuff. Near death experience, that's weird. There have been, Tucker, 900 scholarly articles written about near death experiences in medical journals and scientific journals over the last fifty years. This is a very well researched area, and they have concluded that there is no natural explanation that can account for all of the aspects of a near death experience. It's a fascinating area. And and and so I interview, as I said, John Burke, who's an expert on them, to give examples of this sort of thing. Speaker 0: What about pre death? Speaker 1: Yes. This is death visions. This is this is this is new. Can I just Speaker 0: add one editorial comment? Yeah. I'm so filled with rage I have to do it. That our culture systematically excludes real conversations about death. Obviously, we're very pro death, you know, kill your baby, euthanize your parents, whatever. We're all about death. But the actual experience of death is kind of cloaked for most people, and I don't I don't think they have any idea what it is when someone dies, process of dying. And so this is a welcome conversation. Speaker 1: Tucker, it's fascinating. These deathbed visions the difference between a near death experience and deathbed vision is in a near death experience, a person's gonna come back. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: In a deathbed vision, this is a vision someone has just before they die. They're not coming back. I mean, they're permanently gonna die. But we see a biblical example of this in the book of Acts. We see Stephen, who is described as being full of the holy spirit, who is on the verge of being stoned to death, and he looks up and he sees the heavens open up and he sees the father and the son together. So this is has a biblical precedent. But what is fascinating, and I think what you said is so true, people don't like to talk about it because Speaker 0: At all. Speaker 1: Yeah. At all. Because you're if you have one of these experiences before you die, you think they're gonna think I'm I've got dementia. They're gonna think I'm nuts. They're gonna they're gonna think you know? So a lot of people don't like to talk about it. So there's a researcher. He went to a huge hospice facility in New York State, and they went to all the dying people, and they said, please, as a favor, if you have a vision, a dream unlike any you've ever had, Tell us. Would you tell us? And so eighty eight percent of those dying people had a pre death vision that they reported on before they died. Eighty eight percent. I think the other twelve percent probably had one, but they died before they were able to say anything. Speaker 0: Or they were so high on morphine, they couldn't talk. Speaker 1: That's true. They get people get drugged up. That's true. Speaker 0: So there's that. I mean, obviously, you you don't want people to suffer. You wanna alleviate suffering and alleviate pain. I'm totally for that. I I wanna be clear about it. But there's also this custom which has grown to ubiquity. Now it's just it's everybody who dies, gets from the hospice nurses. Yeah. They kill you with morphine. Mean, yes. No one wants to say that out loud, but I've seen it. They they kill you with morphine. Yeah. And okay. First, we should just be honest about what's happening Yeah. Always. But second, we should be clear about the cost. So if people if Yes. Everybody on the way out is getting visions of some kind Yes. Maybe there's a purpose to the vision. Exactly. Maybe we shouldn't short circuit that. Speaker 1: And, Tucker, maybe there's also corroboration for these. So in other words, they did one study of 3,000 of these, and they determined this is not just something coming from the subconscious mind. There is something else here. And I'll give you the example of the corroboration. There was a woman named Doris. She's dying on her deathbed, and she has a pre death vision. And she sees the heavens open up, and she sees angelic beings, and she sees her father who had died several years earlier, and he's kind of almost welcoming her to the next realm. But then she gets this confused look on her face, and she says, wait a minute. Why is Vaida with my father? What what what why would why would Vaida be there? Makes no sense. What why would Vaida be there? And then she died. Vida was her sister. Her sister had died two weeks earlier, but no one had told Doris because she was so ill they didn't want the news to kill her. So they withheld the news that her sister Vida had died, and yet on her deathbed, she sees Vita in the world to come. That is fairly common. It actually happened with my father-in-law. So that to me is a corroboration. Another form of corroboration, get this, in the bible, in Luke 16, there's a story of a rich man and a beggar who both die. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And the rich man goes to a place of torment. Yeah. And the beggar goes to a place of bliss. Speaker 0: The rich man, by way, has walked past poor man every day Speaker 1: That's right. Speaker 0: And ignored him. Speaker 1: And ignored him. So the beggar, according to Jesus in verse 22, is accompanied by angels to heaven. That angels accompany him to heaven. And what's particularly fascinating is people who have predeth visions often see angels coming for them, just as Jesus suggested in that parable. So, for instance, the most famous skeptic in Canada, Charles Templeton. Charles Templeton was the pulpit partner of Billy Graham. He was gonna be the great evangelist. But then he went to a liberal seminary. He lost his faith. He wrote an ugly book called Farewell to God, My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith. And I got to know him. He became a friend. I actually wrote a book called The Case for Faith where I answered all his objections to Christianity, and we became friends. Anyway, he ended up coming back to faith in Christ before he died. And then he's on his deathbed, and he calls out to his wife, Madeleine. Madeleine, what what, Chuck? Can you see them? What what are you talking about? They're in the room. You can't see them. They're right here in this room. They're the angels. They're coming for me. Oh, they're so beautiful. Look at them. They're so the singing is so beautiful. They're coming for me. I'm going to heaven. I'm gonna be with god. That is incredibly common that people will see angels coming for them in that vision they had before that. Now now here's another bit of corroboration. Children who are dying will see angels, but not like you would expect them to be seen. In other words, let's say a five year old who's dying. What is their image of an angel? Well, it's a furry thing with or feathery thing with big wings. Cartoon. Right? It's a cartoon. They all have big wings. And so there's a case from a doctoral dissertation I read of a little girl who's dying, and she says, mommy, mommy, can you see the angels? They're coming for me. Oh, they're so beautiful. They're so beautiful. Their eyes. Look at their eyes. And the mother didn't wanna disappoint her. So she said, oh, yeah. Yeah. I see them. Look at their big wings. And little girl said, oh, mommy, they don't have wings. And she was able to describe them in vivid detail before she died. Wow. You would think if a child of that age was gonna have just a vision from their imagination of angels coming for them, they would have big wings. They don't. Speaker 0: In the hallmark version. Speaker 1: That's right. And in in case after case, they don't see the big wings. And by the way, the bible doesn't say that all angels have wings. So that to me is another very interesting dynamic of these pre death visions. Speaker 0: Not all people on their deathbed have joyful visions That's right. Or reunited with loved ones in the next world. Yes. There are many people who are in terror Yes. And horrified. Yes. And can you describe that and what is it? Speaker 1: Yes. We have this in near death experiences and in deathbed visions where people who are about to die have a glimpse, I believe, of a hellish experience to come. And they are frightened beyond belief and and scared beyond words. I'll give you an example of a near death vision where this happened. There's a man named Howard Storm. Howard was an atheist. He was a professor of art at a secular university, chairman of the art department, and he was visiting France, and he died of a heart attack. So here he is. He's in a French hospital. He's dead. But he said later, was conscious the whole time. It was a near death experience. His spirit had separated from his body. And there were some people in the hallway say, Howard, we've been waiting for you. Come with us. Come with us. So, he does. And he's walking down the hallway. His spirit is walking down the hallway with these people. And it goes on and on and on, and it gets darker and darker. And then they're becoming abusive. And they're saying, come on, come on. Why are you so slow? And then they start to attack him. And he said, no horror movie can ever capture the horror of what they did to me. I mean, he was absolutely mauled. He said I was roadkill. Speaker 0: And he said, I called out to God. Like physically mauled. Speaker 1: Yes. Eyes gouged out, ears ripped off. It's just horror. And he calls out to Jesus, Jesus, rescue me. And this white oar becomes and brings him and rescues him from that, and he is restored. Well, ultimately, his body is revived. His spirit returns to his body. This is such a profound experience that he not only renounced his atheism, he not only quit his tenured position as chairman of the art department at a secular university, he not only became a Christian, he went to seminary, he became a pastor, and today he's a pastor of this little church, I think it's in Kentucky or Oklahoma or somewhere in the middle of nowhere serving God. That's how transformative this experience was. Speaker 0: Amazing. Speaker 1: But there are multiple cases of people having horrific in fact, one study of near death experiences said it was twenty four percent had negative experiences, not positive. Speaker 0: Doesn't feel like a good sign. Speaker 1: No. No. I mean, what it does to me is it's affirmation that, you know what? What the Bible tells us is true. There is a heaven. There is a hell. And every Speaker 0: society ever has thought that. Yeah. Society. And I think everyone intuitively knows that. Yeah. I've never had a near death experience, but the one time I thought I was gonna die many years ago, I was in a plane crash. I I was filled with sadness. I I had no peace at all. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. None. Only regret. Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. So I I did take that as a as a an indication I should change the way I was living, and I did. Speaker 1: Oh, god. You said in your life. Speaker 0: Well, I felt I felt that way, and certainly in retrospect, I think that. Yeah. But I remember thinking, wow, I'm gonna die. I was certain of it. And and I thought later, I thought that when people knew they were gonna die, they were filled with, like, peace and warmth and Yeah. Walked toward the light. That was Speaker 1: not my experience at all. It was like, man, I can't believe I did Speaker 0: a few things. Oh. And I've really felt sad about it. Yeah. So Speaker 1: Well, that's the reality. Well, but I guess it's Speaker 0: yeah, well, it was the reality that I experienced for sure, but I also think that it's what a blessing Yes. To have an opportunity to, you know, to to turn back Yeah. And change. Speaker 1: That's the thing about these near death experiences that you have another chance. You don't have it in deathbed vision, but you're gonna be revived, and then you have a choice to make. Is that the road I continue Speaker 0: to wanna Speaker 1: go down? Speaker 0: The first thing I did was quit drinking and then had a fourth child. Speaker 1: Wow. It's awesome. Speaker 0: Yeah. Was it was awesome. It was awesome. It was literally awesome. Wow. So yes. So I I think that there's something real there, and it does seem like a crime of some kind to deprive people of that Yeah. With drugs. Speaker 1: I know. Speaker 0: I know. Experiences it just like anything else. Yeah. Like, maybe there's a reason. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's not random. Maybe. You know, I'd encourage people who are watching or listening to this podcast. Next time you have a big family get together with the cousins and the uncles and the aunts and all that, ask people, do we have any family stories about deathbed visions or near death experiences? I bet you you'll find, oh, Uncle Bob had that experience or Cousins Jim had that experience. I was having dinner with seven people in Oklahoma City and four of them, we've talked about this, four of them had relatives who had pre death visions. I but I'm not surprised. It's incredibly common. Speaker 0: I've I've never asked that question at a dinner party, but I have asked, has anyone seen a ghost? Yeah. 100% of the time, there's some at the table who has. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. What is that? Speaker 1: Ghosts I have a chapter on ghosts and psychics in my book. The technical definition of a ghost is someone who dies but refuses to go into the afterlife. Their spirit refuses to go into the next life. I don't see that in the bible. So, I don't think that ghosts per se are from God. I think most likely an apparition that we interpret as being ghosts is most like a demonic apparition. Speaker 0: I think people feel that. Speaker 1: I I think so. Speaker 0: They feel have a bad rep. Speaker 1: Yes. You know? Yeah. They Speaker 0: No one no one is summoning ghosts. Speaker 1: It's not like Casper who's gonna bring you some flowers. Speaker 0: Know? Generally, are anti ghost. Yes. Yes. Ghost stories. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Ghosted. Yeah. It's not not a good connotation. Yeah. So I don't think that surprises anyone. Speaker 1: So I I do talk about ghosts, and and and I talk about psychics and the tricks that they use to convince people that they're Speaker 0: Are you pro psychic? Sorry? Are you pro psychic? Speaker 1: I'm anti psychic. Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. I am too. Why are you anti psychic? Speaker 1: Because the bible says do not consult mediums. Do not consult psychics. I mean, it's very clear. Multiple places in scripture do not do it. Speaker 0: Oh, it well, among the ancient Hebrews, that was a death penalty offense. Speaker 1: Exactly. It was. And so you just it's not something we wanted to mess with, and I think there's gotta be reasons for that. I think it because it opens the door to the demonic that you're trying to consult the dead. You're trying to find out something apart from what God might reveal through a psychic, through a medium who supposedly has a cultic wherewithal and is able to take you down that pathway. It's dangerous. And I talk in the book about the tricks that they use to I mean, there's things like cold readings and warm readings and hot readings where people who wanna fool you into thinking they know more about you than they do will employ that. They think, oh my gosh, this person knows all about me. No, they don't. They're just very clever people who are able to read certain things about you. Speaker 0: No. I mean, there of course, there's a lot of BS gypsy tricks. Speaker 1: But I'll tell you one case. Speaker 0: It's all real. True in the in the bible that, at least in my read of it, that they're taken seriously. Speaker 1: Well, there are cases That's Speaker 0: why it's a death penalty offense, not because not because it's fake, because Speaker 1: it's real. Because it can be real. And, yeah, that's a good way to argue it. There is a case in contemporary times where president Carter was president, and a two engine aircraft went down and crashed in Africa. And the United States government was trying to find it. I don't know why, but they they wanted to find that aircraft. And they had satellites repositioned looking for they could not find the wreckage of this airplane. And so the Stansfield Turner, who was the head of the CIA, consulted a medium, a psychic in California. She went into a trance, and she gave the longitude and latitude of where to find the plane. They went, they reoriented the satellites, and boom, there was a wreckage of the plane just as she had said. What do you do with that? That tells me she was in connection with something there. Now if the bible says don't be connecting with psychics, it was probably demonic. And why would she do that? Because now she's got credibility. Now the next time they wanna know something, let's go to that woman in California, told us where that plane was. She seems to have these abilities to know the future, to know things that we don't know, and now she has credibility. I think that was a way for Satan to give her credibility so that we'd be fooled into thinking into the future to take advantage of her psychic Yeah. Speaker 0: Best not to play with that stuff. Speaker 1: No. No. It's best to stay away from that. Speaker 0: So contacting dead relatives through a medium, Ouija boards, all that stuff, scary bad. Yeah. On the other hand, I mean, that's my position. Yeah. I'm sure it's yours. Yeah. I came to that position through experience, not just guessing. It's bad. However, I know a lot of decent, God fearing people who have said, well, I I really feel like I was contacted by a dead relative, a dead loved one. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's an interesting and I have a couple of cases I talked about in the book of that, that seemingly are corroborated. What do you do with that? Because Speaker 0: Why how is that inconsistent with your theology? Speaker 1: On the one hand, there are a couple of cases in scripture where the dead have come back like that. Elijah came back at the the transfiguration. Yep. So there's an example of a dead person coming back. There's the other example of in the old testament of a going to a medium and a dead person coming back, not because of the power of the medium because she was surprised it happened, but through the power of God, he allowed that dead person to come back. So there are a couple of perhaps precedents in scripture of dead people coming back. Re one of the reasons I'm skeptical is because when Jesus was talking about in Luke 16 about the rich man who died and the beggar who died, he talked about a gulf between the living and the dead. That concerns me. So that raises some questions in my mind. I think the transfiguration and the incident with what's called the medium of Endor in the Old Testament may be one offs. And those were unusual circumstances. So I'm Tucker, I don't I'm not quite sure what to do with it because I talk about a couple of cases in the book where a dead relative returns and a person talks to that relative, and then they disappear, and then their their child comes in, eight year old child says, I just saw grandpa. I just talked to him. So he experienced the same vision. Well, that's pretty weird. Yeah. Is that corroboration and so forth? Well, here's my concern. So many times the people have contact with these dead people. These are people that lived ungodly lives. And yet they say everything's fine. I'm fine. Everything's good. Just take care of the family. Tell everybody I love them. I'm good. Don't worry about me. That's the general message people get. Well, what does that say to someone who is thinking about what do I need to do to live a life that will bring me to heaven and to God? Well, uncle Tom came and told me he's fine. He didn't he was a he was a adulterer and a he never came to faith in Jesus. He's a, you know, bad guy. And yet he says he's fine in the afterlife. Wouldn't that be something that a demon might wanna imitate to send a false message? I I think maybe. So I guess I'm giving you two answers. One is there is some biblical precedent for a dead coming back, but I think they may be one offs. I'm not sure. I think there'd be a good motive for Satan to counterfeit that. You know, it says Satan can appear as an angel of light as a counterfeit, he can fool us into thinking he's something he's not. Would that be to his advantage to do, to mislead people? I think it could be. So I'm not quite sure where I'm at. Speaker 0: Are UFOs what we call UFOs spiritual entities? Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't get into UFOs in the book. It's a fascinating topic. Maybe I'll do another book on that, but so I didn't research it thoroughly. Having said that, though, it would not be an affront to my faith if indeed we found intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. The bible doesn't say that we are unique in that Speaker 0: No. It it doesn't. But but I wonder Speaker 1: Could they be spiritual? Is a question. Yeah. Yeah. Could be. It could be. Yes. Is it? I don't know. I I just not as knowledgeable on that to be able to give a strong opinion. Speaker 0: Last question. Miracles. Yeah. What is a miracle? Speaker 1: A miracle is an event brought about by the power of God that is a temporary exception to the ordinary course of nature for the purpose of showing that God has acted in history. So in other words, a lot of people Speaker 0: Nice definition. Speaker 1: Thank you. That's from Robert Purtill, who was a philosopher. He he he I thought that was the best definition I'd heard. Here's the problem. A lot of skeptics will say, I don't believe in miracles because you can't violate the laws of nature. So by definition, a miracle is impossible. We haven't Speaker 0: even settled on the laws of nature. They're so dumb. Speaker 1: Well, here's how I answer. Speaker 0: We don't even like, the laws of nature, really? Science every day challenges the laws of nature. Speaker 1: Especially with quantum physics and everything. Exactly. But I say, look, I have a glass of water here. If I were to drop it, the law of gravity would say it would hit the floor. Yeah. But if I drop it and you reached in and grabbed it before it hit the floor, you're not violating the law of gravity. You're not overturning the law of gravity. You're just intervening. And that's what a miracle is, is God intervening temporarily into his creation. He brought it about. So, of course, he could intervene. And, man Speaker 0: But again, our understanding of nature and its laws changes every day. Speaker 1: And it's so shallow. It's so shallow what we know and Speaker 0: what But, I mean, our, I mean, our view of what is natural is different now Yeah. From what it was five years ago. Speaker 1: Yeah. And what it'll be five years from Speaker 0: now. Exactly. Yeah. That's just the silliness and the shallowness of claims like that kind of shocked me. Speaker 1: It does. Speaker 0: So miracles but, you know, to the extent we can know, like, this is so unusual, like, this couldn't have happened accidentally. Speaker 1: Give you an example. Yeah. Please do. And this one I personally investigated and it's been widely documented. A woman named Barbara, she was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic, we got all those records with multiple sclerosis as a teenager. It was progressive. She got worse very quickly. So she just got worse and worse and worse, multiple hospitalizations to the point where the doctor said, look, and her parents said, look, next time she gets pneumonia, which she would get on a regular basis, we're just gonna let her die. Speaker 0: Let her go. Yeah. Speaker 1: Because we're just postponing the inevitable. So here she is on her deathbed. She hadn't walked in seven years, so her muscles had atrophy. Her fingers were she was curled up like a pretzel. Her fingers were touching her wrists. Her feet were permanently extended. Her diaphragm was one diaphragm was paralyzed. So her one lung was collapsed. The other lung was at half full. She had a tube in her throat that went to oxygen canisters in the garage. She was in hospice at home so she could breathe. So she got a tube in her throat. She had lost her urination and bowels and control of those. She'd lost her eyesight, so all she saw was gray shapes. And and she's on her deathbed. She's dying. Well, some people said, wait a minute. Let's call WMBI, the Christian radio station at the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, and asked people on the radio show to pray for poor Barbara. She's dying. So they did. Well, we documented that at least 450 people began praying for Barbara because they wrote letters to Barbara saying, I'm praying for you and to encourage her. So here we are in Pentecost Sunday nineteen eighty one. She is in her bedroom, and her aunt and two girlfriends are reading her some of these encouraging letters from people praying for her. And from the corner of the room where nobody was, she heard the voice of God. And the voice said, my child, get up and walk. Well, she hadn't walked in seven years. She had no muscle tone in her legs. She she pulled out the tube so she could talk, and she said, don't know what you're gonna think of this, but God just told me to get up and walk. Go find my parents. I want them to be here. So they ran out, but she couldn't wait. She jumped out of bed. She told me she said, Lee, the first thing I noticed, my feet were flat in the floor. And they hadn't been flat for years. They've been rigidly extended, but they were flat in the floor. Second thing I noticed, my hands had opened up like flowers, and they hadn't opened up in years. And then she said, the third thing I noticed, I could see. I said she said, wouldn't you think that'd be the first thing I noticed? It was actually the third thing I noticed. She was instantaneously completely healed of multiple sclerosis. Her mother came running in, fell to her knees, and grabbed her calves, and said, your muscle tone has come back. It was Pentecost Sunday. There was a service at their church, Wheaton Wesleyan Church. They went they decided to go and thank God that she was fine. She's dancing, literally dancing around the house with her father. So they go to church. They're in the back. The pastor gets up and says, does anybody have any announcements? Barbara comes walking down center aisle. People freaked out because they'd haven't seen her except in a wheelchair for seven years. They began singing spontaneously, Amazing Grace, I Once Was Blind, Now I See. Totally healed. She goes the next day to her doctor, one of her doctors. He said later, he said, I saw her walking down the hallway toward my office. My first thought was, oh, she died, and that's a ghost. He said, this is medically impossible, and it is medically impossible. She was instantaneously totally healed of multiple sclerosis. She ended up marrying a pastor, that little Wesleyan church in Fredericksburg, Virginia. And I got to know her sweetest woman. Is she still alive? She just recently they read this happened 1981, lived perfectly healthy all these years. She just died in Florida. They just retired just a few months ago. So she found but she completely healed and Speaker 0: So what the okay. That's a Speaker 1: What do you do with that? What do you do with that? Speaker 0: Well, that's a challenge to, like, the most basic understanding of everything. Yes. Right? Yep. So if she's on her deathbed from MS Yeah. Which is a well studied Yes. Disease, you know, like you would think that, you know, Harvard Medical School would just like cease cease operations until they figured I out what that Speaker 1: know. You know why? I mentioned to my doctor, I said, I told him the story, he said, it'd be interesting to know because there's plaque that develops in the brain in multiple sclerosis. It'd be interesting to know, did that plaque disappear? And I said, which is the greater miracle that the plaque would disappear or that God would totally heal her Exactly. With the plaque still there. I I don't know which a greater miracle Speaker 0: would be. I guess my question is was how could we in a in a advanced country allow a case like that Speaker 1: To go unnoticed Speaker 0: and unstudied. Speaker 1: I know. It was the next day. It was in in the Chicago Tribune, which most newspapers don't cover stuff like that. I mean, it's too speculative. Speaker 0: But did she get yeah. But that's not speculative. No. I mean, so she had a team of physicians saying it's time for her to go, and then she's dancing Yeah. And singing Amazing Grace and Hearing a Pastor. So, like but what were doctors calling in to say, I wanna study this case? Speaker 1: There are two doctors who wrote books about it. Wrote books about Yeah. Oh. Well, they they wrote books, and in the books, they talked about her case. Yes. So two of her physicians actually wrote about it in their books. Speaker 0: That's ingrained. Speaker 1: I I know. And and it's not the only one. I don't know. We don't have much time. Give you a real quick one. Yeah. There's a kid who was born, little baby, kept vomiting, couldn't keep down food, kept vomiting, vomiting, and they realized this baby has what's called gastroparesis, which is a paralysis of the stomach. It's an incurable condition. It happens from time to time. You can't live that way. No. So they operated and they put tubes in so that the food would go directly into the small intestine. I don't know if it went through the stomach that was paralyzed or whatever, but that way it's able he was able to live. And he lived that way until for fifteen years, sixteen years. He lived that way. There were restrictions on what he could eat. It was uncomfortable, but at least he was alive. Right? They bring him one day to a church and they asked the pastor, would you pray for him? Pastor puts his hand on his shoulder, begins to pray, and the kid said later, I felt an electric shock go through me at the time he was praying. And he was instantly healed of gastroparesis. There has never been a documented case of anyone ever healed of gastroparesis, a paralyzed stomach. He was totally normal. They went in. They took the tubes out. And today, he's totally healthy. He's a business guy, doing great. I just emailed with him the other day. That, again, this was researched by multiple medical researchers and published as a case study in a medical journal. And in the medical journal, it's probably like, here's what happened. You know? Speaker 0: So that's an incredible story. The girl being cured of MS is an incredible story. Everything you've said is amazing. But so many of the things you've said are also instantly recognizable Yeah. To everyone listening, whatever their religious faith or lack of religious faith as things that do happen, actually. It's real. Yeah. We all know Yeah. That there are things that happen to us and people we know well and love that are outside the ability of science to explain. God. They're supernatural. Yeah. So my final question to you, Lee Strobel, and this has been amazing. Thank you. Speaker 1: Oh, my Speaker 0: pleasure. Is why do we keep ignoring it? Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it goes back to what I said earlier. I think we're embarrassed sometimes by the supernatural that we're gonna think people are gonna think we're nuts. Speaker 0: But if that's real and it clearly is real, then, like, it puts everything else into perspective. Speaker 1: Yeah. And when when you take it seriously and when you look at it How could Speaker 0: you not take it seriously? Speaker 1: If you Speaker 0: up in a culture that tells you none of it's real and yet it's super obvious that it is super obvious Yeah. That it's real in some most general sense, like the supernatural is real. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Then why don't people talk about it all the time? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I think the fact that I've been a Christian since 11/08/1981, and I've never heard a sermon on the topic of angels in my life tells you something. I think I I think we we shy away because we we we wanna be accepted as normal. I I I know why else. Speaker 0: Out of bed on Sunday to sit in a church where they're, like, pretending that nothing they say is true. Speaker 1: It's it's it's a good point. Speaker 0: If we believe if we If it's not supernatural, like, why are you bothering? Speaker 1: Exactly. If you believe in Jesus, you gotta believe in angels. You gotta believe in demons. You gotta believe in Satan. You gotta believe in heaven. You gotta believe in hell. Because if you believe in Jesus, he taught on all those things. Yeah. So my goodness. How could you not? I agree with you. How could you not? Speaker 0: Yeah. I mean, go on. Move on to something else. Yeah. Go play tennis or something. Speaker 1: And if if forty percent of Americans have had an experience that they can only attribute to a miracle of God, that means the other sixty percent probably know one of those forty percent. Right? Yeah. And all my brother had this experience. My cousin had. And we kinda say, what do we do with that? And and I think what we ought to do is look for that which is is corroborated and which is consistent with what we trust to be true, which for me are the Christian scriptures. Speaker 0: If you just fight against distraction Yeah. Consistently for just a day or two, like, I'm not gonna be distracted. I'm just gonna notice. That's it. That's all you do is just notice. I'm just gonna notice stuff. Yeah. If you do that as an exercise literally for forty eight hours, you will experience the supernatural. I think you're right. It's hard to do that. Yeah. Lee Strobel, thank you. Speaker 1: Hey. I enjoyed it. Wonderful. Great to meet you. Speaker 0: Thank you.
Saved - September 2, 2025 at 2:48 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

What Science Can’t Explain: @LeeStrobel's New Investigation. https://t.co/uYZkgO3EOQ

Video Transcript AI Summary
Lee Strombold introduces the interview after noting, "So you've written a book. I don't do a lot of book interviews, but couldn't resist this one." The discussion centers on "Seeing the supernatural, investigating angels, demons, mystical dreams, near death encounters, and other mysteries of the unseen world." The host says, "I think a lot of us sense or know on some level, in fact, I think everybody knows on some level that there is a world that science can't measure or quantify." They add: "You know, that there's there's stuff that we can't explain." "Yeah. But it's it's no less real for our inability to explain it." The host concludes, "So let's let's go through the list."
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Lee Strombold. So you've written a book. I don't do a lot of book interviews, but couldn't resist this one. Seeing the supernatural, investigating angels, demons, mystical dreams, near death encounters, and other mysteries of the unseen world. Right. I think a lot of us sense or know on some level, in fact, I think everybody knows on some level that there is a world that science can't measure or quantify. Yeah. You know, that there's there's stuff that we can't explain. Yeah. But that it's it's no less real for our inability to explain it. So let's let's go through the list. Yeah.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

There’s a lot that science can’t explain, including most of what actually matters. Lee Strobel on the overwhelming evidence that the supernatural world is entirely real. (0:00) Introduction (3:02) Strobel’s Encounter With an Angel (8:30) Do We Have a Guardian Angel? (19:31) What Are Demons? (27:03) Can a Christian Be Possessed? (35:03) Why Did the Pharisees Hate When Jesus Performed Miracles? (38:24) Is Hollywood Possessed? (41:54) Are Christian Leaders Under Demonic Attacks? (45:08) How Do You Protect Yourself From Demons? (46:31) What Is the Holy Spirit? (48:18) Are There Specific Places on Earth That Are More Demonic Than Others? (49:45) What Is a Mystical Dream? (52:59) How to Hear From God (56:38) The Mystical Dream Phenomenon Happening in the Middle East (1:02:42) Visions, Psychoactive Drugs, and Hallucinations (1:05:30) Is There a Link to Mental Illness and Demonic Influence? (1:07:28) What Is the Gift of Speaking in Tongues? (1:09:05) The Weight of the Name of God (1:11:43) Angels and Near-Death Experiences (1:22:07) What Is a Deathbed Vision? (1:29:10) Why Do Some People Experience Terror on Their Deathbed? (1:34:14) Ghosts, Psychics, and Encounters With the Dead (1:41:47) Is There a Spiritual Explanation for UFOs? (1:42:29) What Is a Miracle? (1:51:42) Why Do People Ignore the Supernatural? Includes Paid Partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
Challenging scientism, the talk argues that "supernatural experiences are a feature of everyone's life" and that reality includes what science can't measure. Lee Strobel, a Chicago Tribune journalist turned pastor, investigates miracles, near-death experiences, mystical dreams, angels, and demons with empirical scrutiny. Angels are "created by God before humankind was created" and may appear; cases range from John G. Paton to guardian-angel discussions. Demons are "fallen angels" with limited power; exorcisms occur and Christians are protected by the Holy Spirit ("greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world"). Miracles are "a temporary exception to the ordinary course of nature for the purpose of showing that God has acted in history," with peer‑reviewed studies in Mozambique and Brazil and healings like Barbara’s MS cure and gastroparesis reversal. Near-death experiences and deathbed visions are cited as evidence of the soul and afterlife, featuring life reviews and angelic encounters. The takeaway urges grounding belief in scripture while remaining open to the supernatural.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: So we're told there's no state religion in the West, certainly not in The United States, but in fact, is. It's scientism. It's the worship of science. It's the belief, and all of us learn this at a young age, that everything around us, everything we experience, can be measured by people in white coats. That's science. And if it can't be measured, it's not real. The problem with this religion is that our life, our daily experience contradicts it. Constantly, all of us are seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling things that can't be measured by science, but it doesn't make them any less real. These are, by definition, supernatural. Supernatural experiences are a feature of everyone's life, and if we're honest, we'll admit that. So what do they mean exactly? Well, Lee Strobel was a reporter. He worked for the Chicago Tribune and left and became a pastor. So he has religious faith, but also a grounding in empiricism, the desire to prove things. He is the perfect person to write the book that he did about the supernatural. That would be dreams, mystical dreams, near death experiences, miracles, ghosts. We sat down with him to hear just how common these experiences are and what they mean. Lee Strobleth. So you've written a book. I don't do a lot of book interviews, but couldn't resist this one. Seeing the supernatural, investigating angels, demons, mystical dreams, near death encounters, and other mysteries of the unseen world. Right. I think a lot of us sense or know on some level, in fact, think everybody knows on some level that there is a world that science can't measure or quantify. Yeah. That there is know, that there's there's stuff that we can't explain Yeah. But that it's it's no less real for our inability to explain it. So let's let's go through the list. Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, by the way, I I was an atheist. I'm trained in journalism and law, and so I'm always looking for corroboration. Yes. I'm looking for evidence. I'm looking for facts. So you're right. I think there's an intuitive sense that most people have that there's something beyond what we can see, touch, Speaker 0: or put Speaker 1: in a Worse. Eight out of 10 Americans believe that. But how do we know? What what is the evidence? And that's what I try to get into in the book. How can we be sure through corroborated evidence that indeed there are such things as miracles, as near death experiences, deathbed encounters, and mystical dreams, and things like that? Speaker 0: Yeah. Atheism is the is the leap of imagination. Speaker 1: It is. That's true. Speaker 0: It's hard to be an atheist. It's very true. Admire them in a way though. I feel sorry for the anyway. Okay. Angels. Yeah. What's an angel? Speaker 1: Fascinating. You know, angels are created by God before humankind was created. They are spirit beings, so they have they're not omniscient like God is. They're not omnipresent like God is. They are they don't age because there's no physical body. They don't marry because there's no physical body. They they're very intelligent, very smart, and they are according to the Bible, they are to serve not only God, but also his people. And what's interesting Speaker 0: The Christian bible Yeah. With the Hebrew Old Testament Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 0: Makes references. Is there any culture in the world that doesn't believe in some form of angel? Speaker 1: It's pretty universal. Yeah. It is pretty universal. Speaker 0: Like every culture. Speaker 1: Yeah. Just virtually every culture. Speaker 0: The Inuit all the way to the Maya. That's right. That's right. Canaanites. Speaker 1: And what's interesting about the Christian interpretation of angels is that it says in the book of Hebrews in the Bible that we should anticipate the possibility that we would encounter an angel. In other words, it says sometimes when you're providing hospitality to someone, unbeknownst to you, it's an angel. And so there's an anticipation that perhaps there could be angelic encounters. And so what I try to look at in the book are cases in which we have angelic encounters. People actually encounter an angel. I'll give you an example. There was a missionary named John G. Paton, p a t o n, from Scotland, and he went to an island in the South Pacific to be a Christian missionary. And he and his wife were living in a cottage there, and he's talking about Jesus. Well, the local tribes people didn't quite like that. And so one day, a mob of them came to burn down their house and kill them. So they see this mob forming, and he and his wife were in their house. And what can they do? They start to praise. I got it. Protect us. Help us. They're gonna kill us. They're gonna burn our house down. What do we do? And and they prayed all night long. And by dawn, the mob began to dissipate. A year later, he led the head of that mob to faith in Jesus Christ, and they're having a conversation. And John said to him, by the way, do you remember that day when you all came to burn down our house and kill us? Why didn't you do it? And the man said, well, who are all those men you had there? He said, I don't know, men. It was just my wife and I. He said, no. No. No. Your house was surrounded by these muscular men in white garments with drawn swords. There's no way we could have hurt you that night. Well, what's the explanation for that? I I think it could very well have been an angelic encounter that God had sent angels to protect him. And there's multiple numbers of cases like that. Speaker 0: Give me another. Speaker 1: Well, I had an encounter myself when I was 12 years old. It was the only dream I remember as a child. It was more of a vision than a dream. An angel appeared to me and started extolling heaven. How beautiful and wonderful heaven is. And I looked at him kind of offhandedly and said, well, you know, I'm gonna go there someday. And he looked at me and said, how do you know? And I was shocked by that. How do I know? And I started to kind of stumble around to justify my goodness. I said, well, I obey my parents pretty much, and I get good grades in school, and my friends liked me, and I'm trying to justify why I would get into heaven. And he looked at me and he said, that doesn't matter. And this chill went through my spine. How can this not matter? And he said, someday you'll understand, and then disappeared. Well, I wrote it off as being a bad pizza and ultimately became an atheist. But 16 later, as an atheist, my wife brought me to a church, and I heard the gospel for the first time. That salvation, that the doors of heaven are not flung open based on how nice you are to your parents or how how how good grades you get in school. It's based on the grace of God. It's not something we earn. It's a free gift of God's grace. And I heard that message for the first time, and my mind flashed back to that dream, and I thought, wait a minute. That's what he was trying to tell me back then. Speaker 0: Had you thought a lot about that dream and the subject Speaker 1: to me every once in a while. I think about it. I just suppress it. Well, that was a bad pizza. You know? But then I thought there's two forms of corroboration there. Number one, that angel told me something when I was 12 years old that I did not already know, that salvation is by grace. And secondly, he made a prophecy, a prediction that someday I would understand that came true sixteen years later. I think that may have been an angelic encounter that I had. I can't prove it, but that corroboration tells me maybe it really was. So we see cases like this around the world, and it was more than 200 references of angels in the bible. There's not 200? Yeah. Yeah. So lots of evidence that indeed this is part of God's creation. Speaker 0: Interesting. I've been to church. I don't know that I've I'm probably the wrong kind of church, but I don't know that I've ever heard anyone refer to it. Speaker 1: It's so funny you say that because I was giving a talk the other day, I said, you know, I've been a Christian now since 11/08/1981. I have never heard a sermon on the topic of angels ever, ever. Speaker 0: Why? Speaker 1: I don't know. And I go and so in this book, I delve into it, and and I learn some new things. For instance, do we have a guardian angel? Well, there's actually two passages in the bible that suggest maybe we do have a guardian angel. In one passage, Jesus is talking to a group and there's some children there, and he said, do not despise these little ones because their angels see the face of God every day in heaven. Who are their angels? And then secondly, Peter, when he escapes from prison, goes to a home where some Christians had gathered, and he knocks on the door. And the servant says, who's there? And he says, Peter. And she recognizes his voice, and she calls out to the other people and says, hey, Peter's here. Well, I said, can't be here. He's in prison. Peter can't be here. It must be his angel. So based on those two passages, there are Christians who believe that we have an angel assigned to us. In fact, I believe in the Orthodox Christian tradition, they believe an angel is assigned to you at the time you're baptized. I don't know. Are Christians who deny that, but it could be. But the other thing I learned in my investigation of angels, I thought, you know what? I don't think it's appropriate to pray to angels. I don't believe we're taught to do that. I think there's a slippery slope if you pray to angels that it might slip into worship of angels, which would be blasphemous. But there's nothing wrong with praying to God about angels. Martin Luther in the small catechism has a prayer, evening prayer that says, Lord, send your holy angels to protect me from the evil one. And so I I never used to do this, but I now make part of my prayer that God would send angels to protect me and my family, my ministry, my grandchildren, and so I I think that's totally appropriate to do. Speaker 0: Hate to brag, but we're pretty confident this show is the most vehemently pro dog podcast you're ever gonna see. We can take or leave some people, but dogs are non negotiable. They are the best. They really are our best friends. And so for that reason, we're thrilled to have a new partner called Dutch Pet. It's the fastest growing pet telehealth service. Dutch.com is on a mission to create what you actually need, affordable quality veterinary care anytime no matter where you are. They will get your dog or cat what you need immediately. It's offering an exclusive discount, Dutch, is for our listeners. You get $50 off your vet care per year. Visit dutch.com/tucker to learn more. Use the code Tucker for $50 off. That is an unlimited vet visit. $82 a year. $82 a year. We actually use this. Dutch has vets who can handle any pet under any circumstance in a ten minute call. It's pretty amazing, actually. You never have to leave your house. You don't have to throw the dog in the truck. No wasted time waiting for appointments. No wasted money on clinics or visit fees. Unlimited visits and follow ups for no extra cost, plus free shipping on all products for up to five pets. It sounds amazing like it couldn't be real, but it actually is real. Visit dutch.com/tucker to learn more. Use the code Tucker for $50 off your veterinary care per year. Your dogs, your cats, and your wallet will thank you. We're gonna get to demons in a second, but you used the phrase the evil one. Yeah. So at you know, the foundational Christian prayer is what we call the Lord's Prayer, handed down by Jesus himself. Right. And at the end of it, after, you know, we seek forgiveness and forgive those who've sinned against us, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil Yes. Is the way that most, I think, Americans learn the prayer. Yeah. But there's another interpretation that says delivers from the evil one. Speaker 1: That's right. Speaker 0: Yeah. And I I didn't know that Yeah. Until later in life, but I I suspect that that was kind of toned down because the evil one is Speaker 1: a little bit too too supernatural? Yeah. Well, you know, there is an embarrassment in American culture towards some of these supernatural phenomena. In other words, American Christians often wanna be accepted and seen as normal by their neighbors. Oh, yes. I go to church, and, yes, I believe in Jesus. But, you know, you won't catch me talking about angels or demons or miracles or any of this weird stuff. They wanna be accepted as being normal by other people. And so I think there's a lot of people that just don't delve into Speaker 0: There's a de emphasis. Speaker 1: There's a de emphasis churches and in many Christian lives. And yet Jesus clearly believed not only in angels, but he was an exorcist. You know, even skeptics will admit according to the Gospels that Jesus was an exorcist. So, believed in Satan. He believed in demons. Speaker 0: Well, it was one of the primary activities of life Exactly. On Speaker 1: Look at the Gospel of Mark. I think half of his activity is related in some way to fighting demons. So this is something as a Christian that we ought to believe, and then consider what are the implications of this. If this is true, if there is a demonic realm, if there is an angelic realm, what are the implications to me today? Speaker 0: Well, would put it in another way. Has there are you aware of any society in the known history of the human race that didn't believe Right. That there was a supernatural realm Exactly. Good and evil? Speaker 1: Yes. It's virtually universal. Speaker 0: Yeah. I've never heard of any culture that didn't believe that except postwar West. Yeah. Drop the atom bomb, get rid of the supernatural. Right. Because we're God now. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. Speaker 0: But before then, I mean, I I just think this was taken as a matter of course. Speaker 1: Right? Of course. Yeah. Naturally. Speaker 0: So if every society in known history reaches the same a version of the same conclusion Yeah. It suggests maybe there's something there? Speaker 1: It sure does. It sure does. Why Speaker 0: would you come up with that? Speaker 1: Exactly. You know, it's funny. People will say, well, you need extraordinary evidence to prove an extraordinary claim. Mhmm. Which I don't think is legitimate. I don't think that stands up to scrutiny. But let's take it for a moment on face value and say you need extraordinary evidence to prove an extraordinary claim. Well, the claim that there are demons is not an extraordinary claim. I was just thinking about it. Because 95% of humanity through history has believed in it. So if you're an atheist, the the onus is on you. You must present the extraordinary evidence that the demonic does not exist. Well, are also moments in Speaker 0: the life of every person who's awake and not on fentanyl, maybe even people who are on fentanyl, I hope, where you know that you are being acted on by an outside force of some kind, you have no idea what it is. Yeah. But there are moments when you are much better than yourself, much more empathetic, and there are other moments where you're seized by the desire to destroy for the sake of destruction, which is also doesn't make any sense. There's no kind of evolutionary biological accounting for that. Why would you wanna destroy something for no reason? Yeah. Another person, an object, but the impulse to destroy Right. Clearly the hallmark of evil. Speaker 1: Right? It is, and it's consistent with the Christian teaching that the demonic realm exists, that it is intent on luring us away from him and luring us down a pathway that is dark and that is dangerous. Speaker 0: But people feel that. You don't have to be a Christian to have felt that if you're if you're honest with yourself. There are moments where you're like, why did I do that? Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: Right? And yet, we do have cases where we have evidence that there is a a demonic realm. Speaker 0: Alright. So let's go let me ask you one last angel question because I'm trying to faithfully go in order based on because you can judge a book by its cover, I've decided. So you said that angels in the New Testament, perhaps also in the old, but it angels are described as present in our world. Yes. We will mistake angels for people. Speaker 1: Very well. That's right. That's predicted. Speaker 0: So do you think that happens? Yes. And if so, can you give us an example, and what would be the purpose of that? Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, it's interesting in Hebrews, the book of Hebrews, says that we will do it unbeknownst to ourselves. So in other words, the implication is that we will have angelic encounters, but we won't realize they're angels. And and I think that does happen. Now, I have a couple of cases in my book. One is a pastor who is driving his car in Ohio. He loses control of the car. He hits a telephone or an electric transformer kind of a pole type of thing. The wires fall down on his car. The doors are jammed shut. The electricity is coursing through the car so much so that the windshield starts to melt, and he's trapped in this car. He he don't know what to do. And he begins to pray. God, I'm stuck. I don't I don't know what to do. And a man, scruffy kind of guy, comes walking up to the car, and he opens the car whose doors were jammed. He opens the door. He reaches in. He lifts out this pastor and takes him about 50 yards away from the car, which then explodes. And he says to the pastor, he says, you're gonna be okay. You're okay now, but the police are on their way, and I can't be here when they get here. So you're just know that you're okay. And he walked away and disappeared. Now the people, the medics who came, the emergency technicians and so forth that came as a result of the accident, and they look at the cars, can't explain how this is possible that somebody could have opened that car door and not been electrocuted and rescued this pastor. And yet, it happened. And the pastor says, I believe it was an angel. Well, maybe. Could have been. How do you prove something like that? But, I mean, how do you explain it away naturally? How do you explain it away that he's able to come, grip the car door, and open up this car that had been jammed shut? So I think, yeah, there are cases where I think the logical explanation, the most reasonable explanation, if you don't rule out the supernatural at the outset, is that it it was an angelic encounter. Speaker 0: Amazing. Amazing. But they're probably more subtle Yeah. Experiences too. Speaker 1: Yes. No doubt. Speaker 0: Where you learn something, you encounter somebody out of nowhere who tells you something, or who tests your your compassion. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Could very well be. And even the the incident I had that seemed to, as an atheist, here I am in this church, nearly 30 years old, hearing this, understanding the gospel anyway for the first time, and that encounter I had with an angel is something that helped open my heart to the truth of the gospel. Amazing. Of course, had to spend two years of my life investigating it from a you know, to just to kinda conclude that it really was true, but it did propel me down that road toward God. Speaker 0: What are demons? Speaker 1: Demons are fallen angels. So the the Bible the Bible is is a little bit vague on this, but apparently what happened there was a Speaker 0: Kinda funny if I could just Yeah. Pause. This is my totally ignorant read of it. Yeah. But when the supernatural host wouldn't you know, all these supernatural beings are referred to in the bible, there's almost a sense in which the the writer is assuming the reader already knows all this. Speaker 1: Yes. That's right. It doesn't it doesn't have a passage that says, by the way You're right. Speaker 0: These things are real. Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me explain all this to you. You know, it doesn't do that, which is interesting. Speaker 0: Because the the I mean, the the culture at the time was familiar with this and there was like kinda no debate that there was a supernatural Speaker 1: It's sort of like the soul. Have a chapter in the book on the existence of the soul. And because a lot of scientists today will deny that the soul exists. The bible doesn't say, by the way, you have a soul and here's let me define it for you. It presumes that we have a soul. Speaker 0: Scientists will deny the soul exists. So most of what the big health companies sell is loaded with sugar and fillers and synthetic junk. It's probably not too good for you, and that's why we're interested in a company called Peak. It's a modern wellness brand that is actually healthy. It's got clean science backed methods, all kinds of blends trusted by doctors, loved by experts. It supports gut health, glowing skin, steady energy, not peaks and valleys, it makes it really easy for you to feel good all day long at your best. One of our favorites is RE fountain. It's a calming electrolyte designed to help your body recharge and recover overnight. It's got magnesium, no sugar at all, no artificial sweeteners, no fake flavors, and it gives your body what you need to hydrate and restore overnight, which is good. Everyone here has felt the difference, better sleep, more energy, smoother mornings. It has helped a lot of people here, and it can help you too. You get 20% off for life for life when you start your first month. Go to peaklife.com/tucker. Peak,pique, life.com/tucker. Highly recommend it. By the way, anyone who denies the soul exists, probably getting ready to genocide you. Speaker 1: It gets like kind of a soulless experience. Speaker 0: Well, if there's no human soul, then how is murder wrong? Speaker 1: Well, exactly. And they'll say free will is impossible, so there's no free will. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. But demons it started out with Lucifer, whose name means morning star, and he was kind of first among angels. Speaker 0: Name means morning star? Speaker 1: Yeah. Lucifer. He becomes Satan, and the name Satan literally means adversary. And so the implication of scripture is that this this very prominent angel named Lucifer wanted to be worshipped. He's the one who wanted to worship. And so his pride is what resulted in him falling from the angelic realm, becoming Satan, becoming someone and when you think about this, when Jesus encounters Satan, what is it Satan wanted from him? Worship. Satan Satan wanted Jesus to worship him. And that's what Lucifer wanted. He it was pride that got in the way. He becomes Satan, and a certain percentage of the angels accompanied him in this fall. This happened before the fall of humankind in the Garden Of Eden, so this predates that. We don't know how many angels accompany him, but there are a lot of angels. In in Revelation chapter five, there's a scene of Jesus on the throne being worshiped. And if you do the math, because it it talks about it a little cryptically, it was a 100,000,000 angels worshiping him at that time. So, there's a lot of angels, and a percentage of them fell with Lucifer. Became Satan, and angels became his minions, so to speak. Now, Satan is limited in his power. He's not omniscient like God is. He's not omnipresent like God is. In other words, a guy was telling me, he said, there's probably never a time when you and Satan have both been in the same zip code. Because he's only in one place at a time. And so he's got things he's doing. He'd probably never been in the same ZIP code you have, but his demons probably have been. And they carry out his will, which is to pull people away from God, to to discourage people in finding God, and to drag as many people to hell with him as they can. Now, his existence, he's sort of on a leash by God at this point. His ultimate destination in the Lake Of Fire is already predicted, So he has no future really, but he has influence, and Speaker 0: he Speaker 1: has certain powers. And he and the demon is very intuitive. They'll you'll think they know more than they know, and they go after people. I tell the story in my my book about a very prominent psychiatrist named Richard Gallagher, educated Ivy League University. I have a quote from the former president of the American Psychiatric Association calling him highest integrity, totally trained and and prominent in his field of psychiatry. Of course, he's a medical doctor because he's a psychiatrist. Just extolling him as an individual and as a scientist, as a psychologist, psychiatrist. And about twenty five years ago, he had two cats, and they got along great. They slept together. They played together. Everything was fine. Until one night, the cats started to attack each other viciously. I mean, they're trying to kill each other. They're clawing each other. They're snarling each other. They're biting each other. It was it was unbelievable. They they pulled them apart and put them into separate rooms and thought, what in the world was that all about? At 9AM the next day, the doorbell rings, and it was a preset appointment. A Catholic priest was bringing by a woman to be examined by doctor Gallagher. She claimed that she was a high priestess of a satanic cult, and he wanted her to be examined. Was she demonically possessed? Was she just crazy? Or what is this all about? So at 9AM, the doorbell rings for his appointment, and doctor Gallagher opens the door, and here's this woman who claims to be a high priestess of a satanic cult who kind of looks up at him and sneers at him and says, so how'd you like those cats last night? Oh. Yeah. There's something going on, and that took him on a journey where he, as a psychiatrist who understands what mental illness is and understands, comes to understand what demon possession and demon oppression is like. He spends the next twenty five years as kind of the go to guy in the medical realm for exorcists of the Catholic faith, and has witnessed amazing things that he documents, and I quote him in the book cases where we have a woman who, in front of eight eyewitnesses levitates off a bed for thirty minutes. Another case where people are speaking in Latin and other languages that they don't know, where they spontaneously are bruised and clawed, where one petite woman picked up a two hundred pound Lutheran deacon and threw him across a room. I mean, these are things, as he said, they go beyond psychiatry. He believes these are actual demonic possessions. Now, a true Christian cannot be demonically possessed. And the reason is a true Christian is indwelled by the Holy Spirit. He can't be indwelled by evil and good like that in the same way at the same time. So, Christians cannot be possessed, but they can be oppressed. They can be hectored. They can be bothered. They can be attacked by demons. And there are some amazing examples of that. I just mentioned a couple of people who are hectored or bothered by demons. Now, for Christians, the book of James says to if if you rebuke Satan, he'll go away. So, if you're a Christian, you don't have to be afraid that, you know, these demons are gonna somehow possess you or or or kill you or whatever. Greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world, the bible says. And so, you can the bible says if you if you shun Satan, he he has no choice. He's gotta he's gotta leave you. So for a Christian, you're protected. But I I fear for those that aren't don't have that kind of protection. There are cases of of demon possession that, as doctor Gallagher and others have documented, are corroborated in ways that I don't think they can be denied. Speaker 0: How can you corroborate a supernatural event? Speaker 1: I think by the when there's when there's no naturalistic explanation for what occurs. So you have a woman, for instance, in front of eight eyewitnesses levitating off a bed for thirty minutes. I don't know what the natural explanation for that would be. Speaker 0: That's Speaker 1: right. You know? So I think it points towards something beyond that. For me, as I investigate another area I investigate in the book, are miracles. And for me, if you have solid documentation, medical documentation, if you have multiple eyewitnesses with no motive to deceive, if you have no natural explanation that seems logical that can account for the phenomenon, and if it takes place in the context of prayer, then I think it's logical to conclude that a miracle has taken place. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And there have been miracles published in peer reviewed medical journals. I talk about one in my book. Here's a woman who was blind for twelve years with incurable condition. She went to a school for the blind. She learned to read braille. She walked with a white cane, and she married a Baptist pastor. And one night, they're getting ready to go to bed. She's already in bed. He comes over to her and he puts his hand on her shoulder and he begins to cry. And he begins to pray and he says, Lord, I know you can heal my wife. I know you can heal her right now, and I pray that you do it tonight. And with that, she opened her eyes to perfect vision. She said, was blind when my husband prayed for me. I hope she prayed. I opened my eyes. I can see. It's a miracle. That was researched by multiple medical researchers and published in a medical journal as a case study. What do you do with that? What do you do with that? Speaker 0: What did they do with it? Speaker 1: I think it kinda leaves it up to the reader to say, what's your conclusion? Speaker 0: They were upset by it. Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but certainly certainly does point toward a supernatural event. But here's what's interesting. There's a woman with a PhD from Harvard who's a professor at Indiana University, major secular university, and she said, I'd like to test whether miracles are possible. How can we scientifically test that? So here's what she did. Miracles tend to cluster in places where the gospel is just breaking in. And so we see them in China, in Mozambique, in Brazil, places where the gospel is taking root. We see miracles taking place in a disproportionate number. So she says, I'm gonna put it to the test. So she sends a team of scientists to Mozambique, and researchers to Mozambique, and they go into the bush, and they say, bring us all your deaf and blind. So they bring all the people deaf, blind, or with severe hearing or vision problems. They bring them and they test them scientifically right there. What is your level of vision? What is your level of hearing? They get that scientifically established. Then, immediately, they are prayed for in the name of Jesus by people who tend to have a track record of God using them that way. And then, immediately after that, they're tested again. Guess what they found? Improvement in virtually every case. In fact, get this. The average improvement in visual acuity was tenfold. There was a woman named Martine. When they first encountered her, she could not hear the equivalent of a jackhammer next door. After ten minutes of prayer, she could now hear normal conversations. Well, this team is flummoxed by this. It's like, what? Something is going on here. Virtually every person improves, of them dramatically so, like Martin. Let's see if we can replicate it. So, we'll go to another place where miracles are breaking in Brazil. They did the same test. They got the same results. In fact, was a woman in Brazil. She couldn't see me holding up three fingers from nine feet away, and after prayer for her healing, she could read the name tag of the person praying for her. Tucker, this was published. This is a scientifically rigorous study that was published in a peer reviewed, secular, scientific medical journal, major medical journal, the Southern Medical Journal published this. And I interview in my book, I interview the scholar that did that study, and I say, what do you make of this? And she said, something's going on. She said, this isn't we're not playing on people's emotions. This is not some televangelist trying to get people to send in their money. This is not some people at a predisposition for anything. Something is going on. And I I think she's right. I think it's miraculous. Speaker 0: It sounds it. And and I think every person who's awake has experienced something that just doesn't doesn't have a natural Speaker 1: 80%. I did a study. I hired a public opinion firm to do a scientifically accurate study of American adults, and I asked the question, have you ever had one experience, at least in your life, that you can only explain away as being a miracle of God? Thirty eight percent of American adults said yes. And by the way, let's say ninety nine percent of them are wrong. Let's say they think it was a miracle, but it was just a big coincidence. So let's just wipe out ninety nine percent and say, no, no, no, you thought it was a miracle. It really wasn't. Let's wipe away ninety nine percent. Guess what? That would still mean there would be a million miracles nearly in The United States alone. So you're right. So many people have experienced something in their life that they can only attribute to being a miracle of God. Speaker 0: The official story on nine eleven is a complete lie. The nine eleven report is a joke. Speaker 1: You have the CIA following two men all over the planet and then eventually even to America. Right? And you don't tell the FBI. Nine eleven commission cover. Speaker 0: So what did happen? What did the government know? What did foreign governments know? There was a cover up. Why? It's been nearly twenty five years. It is time Americans learned what actually happened. We're gonna tell you. We're releasing one episode per week. You're not gonna wanna wait. If you're a member, you don't have to. You get all five episodes the day it drops right then, ad free. Our first episode airs Thursday, 09/11, September 11. You will not wanna miss it. Join us now at tuckercarlson.com. When Jesus performs miracles healing people Yes. Making the lame walk, fixing the man with the withered hand Yeah. Even when he casts out demons from the man in the cemetery in the Sea Of Galilee. The reaction he gets from particularly religious authorities, the Pharisees, they hate it. Yes. They hate it. Speaker 1: Yes. They do. It's funny you say that. Why Speaker 0: is that? Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I I wrote a novel once. Fiction. Book of fiction. It was like a John Grisham thriller. Nobody read it. It was a big bomb. Nobody bought my book. But in that book, I have a politically ambitious pastor, and Speaker 0: Is is there anything worse? Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. And and there's a miracle that happens in his congregation, and a reporter comes to question him about it. And the reporters thinking, oh my gosh, the evidence is overwhelming something to him. And the and the pastor is downplaying it. No. No. No. No. No. That's just a coincidence. That can't be true. The pastor because he why? Because he wants to be he doesn't wanna be seen as being weird by the community at large, and it would poison his political chances. So I there is something true to that in Americans that we tend to suppress it. Speaker 0: Yeah. Not I mean but I mean, this is an account from two thousand years ago. No Americans in the New Testament, and they had the same reaction. Speaker 1: But the religion they they they did not like Jesus. They did not like his message. They did not like who he was. Speaker 0: I get it. Yeah. I think they'd be happy that the lame man can walk after thirty years, Speaker 1: you know. You would think At least they could say, hey. Good for you. That's great. By the way, we don't like this Jesus guy. But no. They didn't. They just said, we don't like this Jesus guy. Speaker 0: No. Actually, they plotted to kill the man he Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Speaker 0: So there's a couple references, at least a couple references in the New Testament to Satan being the ruler of the earth. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: What does that mean? Speaker 1: It means that in this realm, he, in many ways, has his way. In other words, he has access to be able to influence people and point them away from the one true hope that there is, which is God. And so he prowls about, as the Bible says, as a lion hoping to tear people apart spiritually. Speaker 0: I mean, if that's not true, then explain the first world war. Yeah. I mean, there is just no there's no explanation even now, over a hundred years later Yeah. For why that war started. Oh, you know, Archduke Ferdinand got shot dead in Sarajevo. Really? Okay. That's not a real explanation, actually. Did Christian Europe commit suicide? Yeah. And and there are many other wars and many other tragedies in all of our lives. We're like, that doesn't make any sense. It's clearly, you know, supernatural forces are acting I on Speaker 1: agree. And and so what I tried to do is say, okay, what evidence is there that there's more than what we can see and touch? And because I'm fascinated by this, and the reason I say that, Tucker, is because if this is true, if demons do exist, we ought to be heads up about it. Because the two biggest mistakes we can make about the demonic realm, number one, is to deny that they exist, and number two, to see a demon behind every bush and think they're more powerful than they are. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: They're they're both problems, but I think the biggest problem in our culture is to deny that there is a demonic realm, pretend like there isn't. So what are the hallmarks Speaker 0: of it then? Speaker 1: Well, I think some things you mentioned, we see manifestations of it in ways that defy natural explanations. And I think that's probably the best way of Speaker 0: Disorder, distraction, chaos, violence, hate, division. Speaker 1: And you think if if Satan were smart, which he is, would he go around the country and around the world trying to possess or bother average everyday people? Well, you know what? Much more efficient to go to Hollywood and to influence a bunch of people there who are very influential in, let's say, the entertainment industry. And let's say he encourages them to create films and television shows that are funny and that are creative and are fun, but there's an underlying message to them that there's a normalization of immoral activity that makes it normal. Because, you know, when we laugh, it opens us up to various possibilities. When we laugh, our defenses come down. So I'm thinking of a wonderful, TV show like Friends. Remember Friends, the TV show? Was on TV for years. Very popular show. Speaker 0: Only American who never saw it, but yeah. Speaker 1: But underlying that is a very ugly sexual ethic that that normalizes multiple sexual partners and that sort of thing. The kind of thing that Satan would love to inculcate into American culture. And you know what? I think it's much more efficient for Satan to influence movie makers and TV makers in Hollywood to create products that feed us stuff that, without us even realizing it, open us up to the occult, open us up to immoral activity, normalize it in ways that, well, if Monica can do that on Friends, I can certainly have sex on the first date with this guy. So Speaker 0: the way I, as a non theological, ignorant person, try and figure out whether something's good or bad, because it is an open question very often, it's like, is that good or bad? I'm not sure. Yeah. Are the people doing it at peace, joyful, happy? Yeah. Are they tormented? Yeah. And I know a lot of people in Hollywood, a lot of people I like actually, not too many happy people. Yeah. Some really tormented people. It's true. For real. Yeah. String of wrecked relationships, kids who hate them, trans kids, drug problems. Like, there's so much of that. Yeah. Do you think that's a fair way to assess? Speaker 1: I think because it is logical that if Satan were to try to influence a culture in a mass way, that that is a logical way that he would do it. And, oh, guess what? By the way, look at all the dysfunction we see in that community. It does seem to match up. Speaker 0: So if evil is acting through you, you are harmed too? Speaker 1: Generally, would say yes. You're gonna be someone who's trying to influence others. You may not realize the Speaker 0: full Yeah. Speaker 1: It does destroy you. Speaker 0: It certainly seems to. Speaker 1: Yeah. I think so. Who would you know, God created us so we could have a relationship with him, so he taught us how we can live in a way that maximizes who we are. And when we stray from that in in egregious ways, as many people have and do, there are implications for us. Speaker 0: If I were trying to subvert and destroy, I would go after religious leaders. Yeah. I'd have them, like, molest kids or Yeah. Freaky sex lives or steal money from the church. Yes. And you do I've always noticed that the leadership of Christian churches in just on the numerically Yeah. Way more likely to be screwed up than the people in the pews. Speaker 1: Interesting. Do you know Speaker 0: what I mean? You see these sex scandals with pastors, and you're like, how many people who are going to church every Sunday have sex lives like that? Probably not very many, but a pretty high percentage of pastors, and I feel like that is outside influence. Speaker 1: Like, too. Teachers who young kids look up to, you know, you can imagine when you were kindergarten, first grade, second grade, you looked up to your teachers. Not one Speaker 0: time. There's not one teacher I liked. Speaker 1: Oh, really? Nope. Oh, I sure did. Speaker 0: I never know. I felt it was Speaker 1: a No kidding. Speaker 0: An authoritarian situation. I was I was totally opposed from kindergarten on till I left college. There was not one day where I respected or liked any of them, not a single one. Speaker 1: That is that is so I I happened to go to public school growing up, and yet back then in the fifties and sixties, most of the teachers are Christians. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: And so, no, I had some wonderful teachers that taught me great lessons about life. Speaker 0: I You grew up in Speaker 1: a better American than I did. Speaker 0: In Southern California in the seventies, I thought they were all buffoons, freaks. I wasn't taking orders from them. I really dislike them. Sorry. Excuse me. Speaker 1: It's funny. Speaker 0: But but if you wanna lead people astray, you subvert their leaders, I guess. Yes. Speaker 1: Yes. Very much so. I mean, yeah, just put yourself in Satan's place. How are you gonna impact the maximum number of people? You're gonna wanna go after leaders. You're gonna wanna go after religious leaders. You're gonna wanna go after children. You're gonna you know, and influence them at a young age. Speaker 0: We see all of that. I often think this is such a wonderful country despite all its problems. I'm totally convinced it's the best country having been to a lot of countries. Yeah. But our leadership is the worst. Yeah. It's They're they're the worst. They're like the worst people I've ever met. Mhmm. And maybe that's not accidental. Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there could it be? I'll just raise the question. Could it be that some people have received some assistance from demonic Speaker 0: Certainly seems that way. Speaker 1: Terms of achieving what they've achieved. Speaker 0: How many happy I don't know how many political leaders you know, but how many happy ones have you met? Speaker 1: Gosh. Not a lot I trust. Put it that way. Speaker 0: Right. But they're all, like, tormented. Yeah. Sweaty and nervous and afraid. Don't you think those are signs? Speaker 1: I do. I do. And you look at if if Satan's gonna go after children, what is all this stuff about libraries doing children's readings of and drag shows to to little kids. Why? Why would that happen? You know what? Because if you can capture the mind of a child very young, it could influence them for the rest of their life. Speaker 0: What happens because we put up with it? Yeah. We do. A healthy society would not put up with That's true. For five minutes. That's true. Yeah. Sorry. They'd drive them out of the temple immediately with a whip. Right. Speaker 1: Yeah. Sorry. Excuse me. Speaker 0: So you think that you believe that demons roam the earth? Yes. How do you protect yourself? Speaker 1: The bible talks about in Ephesians talks about the full armor of God, and and is and I talk about this in the book. I have a half a chapter that looks at ways that we can protect ourselves. I think the key number one way is to be knowledgeable about scripture. Because if the bible is really from God, then that is the plumb line of truth. And if it's the plumb line of truth, we can measure everything against it. And so if we're tempted by something that violates that plumb line of truth, then we can be assured that's not from God. And so I think being familiar with what are the teachings of of the bible so that we can deter any effects, any attempts by Satan to lead us down a path that's clearly not biblical. So I I think that's probably the number one way. I think prayer is important. I I think honestly, and I say this granted as an evangelist who wants to drag as many people to heaven with me as I can, That's my life goal now as a former atheist. I will say the best way to protect yourself is to come into a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Because if you are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, you can't be possessed by Satan. And and you can tell Satan to flee, and the bible says he will flee. Speaker 0: What is the holy spirit? Speaker 1: Holy spirit, you know, the the the god is one what and three who's. The bible teaches there is one god. That's clear. But it also teaches that the father is God, that the son is God, and the holy spirit is God. And so we have three we have one what, which is God, and three persons. And so the holy spirit being disembodied and so forth comes into the life of someone when they repent of their sin, receive forgiveness through Christ. John one twelve says, but as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in his name. Speaker 0: But in practical terms, like what is the Holy Spirit? So the Holy Spirit comes into you, then what happens? Speaker 1: Yeah. The Holy Spirit indwells you. Now you've got a plumb line inside of you, so to speak, and you recognize I'm sure you see things in your life now as a Christian that you did before you were Christian. You say, why did I even do that? What was I messing with that? I certainly have those examples because now being indwelled by the Holy Spirit as a follower of Jesus, I have that plumb line to tell me what's godly and what's not. And so it's it it aids our conscience in understanding that. And by being indwelled by the holy spirit, it means we cannot be possessed by Satan as we see these demon possessions. And and those are increasing in numbers. The Catholic church has just added a whole bunch of people to who are trained in exorcisms. You see in charismatic ministries, deliverance ministries, I think we're seeing increase in demonic activity and in demons hectoring and harassing and oppressing and possessing people. I think we're seeing an increase in that. Speaker 0: Are there certain places? I mean, are physical places I have been where the hair on my arm Yeah. Go up. Yeah. Me too. And without any, you know, foreknowledge. Yeah. Not like this is a really spooky place. Watch this. It's like some place that I can think of a few of them in my life where it's like, oh, I don't know what this is about. What is that? Speaker 1: I think of Haiti. Think of I've Speaker 0: been to Haiti. I feel that strongly. Speaker 1: Good friend who has a ministry in Haiti, and that's that's a place that has opened itself up to the demonic. Speaker 0: Through human sacrifice. Speaker 1: Through voodoo, through all these things, and it is a place where you palpably feel evil often. I was in some remote parts of India and felt the same thing in many places. So I think there is just as miracles tend to break out in a positive way in places where the gospel is breaking in, I think we probably see pockets around the globe where Satan has a stronghold. I I I would think that Speaker 0: Physical places. Speaker 1: Physical places. Yeah. Like, I think Haiti is a good example of that. Speaker 0: I've been in some places in The US where I felt that really strongly. Like, I've been I was in a house once. I lived in a house once as a child where part of the house, there's something so wrong with it, and every person who lived in the house knew that. Interesting. Sound? Speaker 1: Could be. Could be. Could be an occultic thing. Yeah. Speaker 0: What's a mystical dream? Speaker 1: Mystical dreams, I talk about these in the book, is so fascinating to me. We have seen more Muslims become Christians in the last couple of decades than in the fourteen hundred years since Muhammad, and it's been estimated that a quarter to a third of them before they became a Christian had a Jesus dream. Now what's interesting about that is that these are corroborated dreams. I'll I'll tell you what I mean by that. First of all, a devout Muslim has no incentive in a let's say in a closed country where it's even illegal to share the Christian gospel. They have no incentive to have a dream as a product of their subconscious mind about Jesus, the Jesus of Christianity, because it might lead him into apostasy. It might lead him to a death sentence in certain countries. So there's no incentive for a devout Muslim to have a dream about Jesus. And yet, we are seeing this all over The Middle East, in closed countries, in in oppressive countries where Christians are persecuted and so forth. But here's the here's what I found most fascinating. In these cases, people are not going to sleep as a Muslim having a dream about Jesus and waking up as a Christian. That's not how it works. There is always something that points to a phenomenon or an event or a person outside the dream that corroborates the dream. Let let me give an example to clarify it. There was a woman named Noor in Cairo, mother of eight, devout Muslim. She goes to sleep. She has a dream in which Jesus visits her. It's like unlike any dream she's ever had. And she feels the love and the grace and the beauty of Jesus in such a profound way. She said, here I am, a woman in the presence of a man for the first time in my life. I didn't feel shame. I felt love, and she's just overwhelmed by this, and they're walking along a lakeshore. And she says, Jesus, why do you appear to me? I'm just a poor mother of eight in Cairo. And Jesus said, my friend will tell you tomorrow. And she said, who's who's your friend? And Jesus gestures to a man she didn't even realize was walking with them along the lakeshore because she was so mesmerized by Jesus. She didn't notice this guy. And he says, my friend will tell you tomorrow. She wakes up. The next day, goes to the crowded marketplace in Cairo on a Friday afternoon, and she sees the man from her dream. She goes up to him. Say, you're the one. You're the he said, woah. What are you talking about? You're the same glasses, same face, same clothes. You're the one. He said, did you have a dream about Jesus last night? Say, yes. Turned out he was an underground church planter. He didn't wanna go to the crowded marketplace in Cairo on Friday afternoon. It's chaotic, but he felt God had an assignment for him. So he went that day, nor encounters him from the dream. He pulls her aside, opens the Bible, and shares the gospel with her. That's the external corroboration that I'm talking about. It's not just something that takes place in your subconscious mind. There is an external factor to it. I'll give you another example. There was Speaker 0: a I'm asking you a pause. So one of the miracles there are at least two in the story you just told. Yeah. And one of them is that the pastor felt the call to go to the marketplace on a Friday, and he obeyed. Speaker 1: Exactly. Speaker 0: Have you had that experience in your life where you just feel like you're being told to do something and you obediently do it? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I I remember as a new Christian, I felt a really strong urge, I believe it was from God, to empty our bank account and send a anonymous cashier's check to a woman, a single woman in our church. Send it anonymously, and to do it on Friday. I don't know why, but it was on to do it on Friday. And I my wife and I both prayed about it said, yeah. We we both feeling this. It's odd, but we feel it's legit. So empty your bank account. Speaker 0: It was a fringe. Speaker 1: We empty the bank account. We got That's odd. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well, that is Lee, that is odd. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: Fair. Hey. It was only $500, but still for us, that was a lot of back then. Yeah. We send this check. Speaker 0: Did you know the woman? Speaker 1: Yeah. We knew her. Yeah. Nice woman. She had come to faith. She had actually had a lot of negative experience with Christians growing up, but she ended up coming to faith through a debate on Christianity. We did in our church between atheist Christian. And so I knew who she was and so forth. So on Monday morning, she calls me out of the blue and she's crying. She said, Lee, I don't know what to do. I said, what? What? What? What? What's going on? She said, my car broke down over the weekend. They say it's gonna cost $500 for me to fix my car. I don't have $500. I'm gonna lose my car. I'm gonna lose my job because I gotta have my car for the job. Would you pray for me that I would get this $500 somehow? And I said, absolutely. I'll pray for me. You know? Let's pray. Sure enough, that afternoon, because I'd mail in Friday, Monday afternoon, she gets this anonymous $500 check. There's Speaker 0: Did she ever tell her? Speaker 1: No. She doesn't not unless she's listening. Maybe she Speaker 0: Is she still around? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. She's still Yeah. She actually quit her nursing job and joined the staff of our church. She used to deliver my mail every day at the church. Wow. So I guess if she's listening, now she'll know. But Speaker 0: You've never told her. What year was that? Speaker 1: No. Oh, gosh. This was I was a new Christian at the church. It was probably 1987, somewhere in there. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0: So Almost forty years ago? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So so, yeah, I think that does happen where god influences you. Speaker 0: Do you try to be open? I do. Speaker 1: That I do. When I pray, I try to leave time at the end of the prayer. Say, god, I'm just gonna be quiet for a while. If there's anything you wanna tell me, anything you need to alert me to, any way you wanna lead me, I'm just gonna be quiet. I'm just gonna listen. And I just spend and normally, there's nothing. That day, there was $500. But normally I don't feel anything that specific. But it's okay because what's important is saying, I'm open, God, to anything you want me to do or what you want me to do. I'm open to it. Of course, anything, the Bible says, test the spirits. So if I'm feeling something, I wanna test it to make sure it's scriptural, because God's not gonna tell me to He's not gonna go tell me to poison my neighbor. All right? So it's gonna be consistent with scripture. But I wanna leave myself that opportunity to open myself up and say, god, I'm listening. And just pause for a while and and see, is there something? And on that day, there was something. It doesn't happen that often. But every once in a while, something will take place like that. Speaker 0: Amazing. So you sorry for the for the for cul de sac there. You believe there has been an uptick in mystical dreams. Speaker 1: I oh, definitely Middle East. In fact, get this. In Cairo, there's often an ad in the newspaper, And the ad says, call this number, and we'll tell you about the man in white you met in your dream last night. Really? Because there's so many of these. I interviewed for my book, seeing the supernatural. I interviewed, Tom Doyle, who's the world's leading expert on this. And Tom said, Lee, I could pick up the phone right now, and I could call Syria. I could call Iraq. I could call Iran. And I'll give you five more stories. They are so common. I'll give you one from my church in Houston, Texas. So I'm part of a church. I live part time in Houston, part of a church there. I used to be on the staff. And there was a woman who was born in The Middle East in a closed country where you can't share the gospel legally. And she had a dream when she was about 16 years old. And she said it was unlike any dream I ever had because it was like a projector was projecting an image of of Jesus. And it it influenced her. It touched her, but she didn't know what to do with it. And she said, was having problems with my life. I called out for help, that's what happened. Well, she ended up marrying a Muslim gentleman who was transferred to Houston, Texas because of the oil industry. So she moves into near our church, and she has another dream. And in this dream, she's up to her waist in a body of water. And there's a man with her with a book that's open, and the man is weeping. And she's thinking, what does that mean? Speaker 0: What what is that Speaker 1: supposed to be about? Well, a neighbor of hers goes to our church, and she invited her to come to Easter services at our church because her husband was out of town. So she came to Easter services. She's sitting on the aisle in the auditorium waiting for the service to begin, and she sees the man who was with her in the pond with the book. And she said, that's the guy. He was one in my dream when I was in this pond for no reason whatsoever, but I saw him. Well, his name is Alan Spawn. Alan is our pastor of baptism. Alan comes over. They introduce her. This woman ends up receiving Jesus Christ as her forgiver and leader. She becomes a Christian, and she learns about baptism. And sure enough, Allen Splawn takes her to the pond on our property where we baptize new believers. And with her water up to her waist, and with Alan, with a bible open, and weeping at the joy, baptizes her in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. So there's a case in my own church in Texas like that. Speaker 0: What did her husband say when he got home? Speaker 1: He doesn't know to be sure. Doesn't know. He doesn't know because she can't tell him. She said he would he would who knows what he would do? She can't she can't so she keeps she has a bible that we gave her. She keeps it hidden. And she doesn't go to church because she can't. So she has to keep it hidden from her husband. Wow. It's sad. But again, she didn't do nothing about baptism. What what kind of a what kind of a mystical dream you're standing up to your waist in water with a guy with a book who's crying? I mean, what in the world is that all about? Speaker 0: How do you tell a difference between a conventional dream and a mystical dream or are all dreams mystical? I I don't we don't know what dreams are just for the record as a matter of science. Yeah. I mean, no one's ever been able to explain what that is. Yeah. Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. God is in control of all. And so in a sense, everything is spiritual. Right? Yes. I mean, God rules and so forth. So in a sense, any dream is spiritual. I think to me a mystical dream is one that has a strong spiritual overtones. And there's no natural explanation to say this could come from your subconscious mind. You know, I think sometimes people will write off a dream as saying, well, that's just something that came from your subconscious. Maybe you saw something on television, didn't even realize it, and it was in your subconscious. And and but when you have examples like the one I gave, that doesn't make sense. I'll give you another example. There was a guy named Omar. And Omar grew up in a refugee camp in The Middle East, hated Jewish people, hated Jewish people. His life goal was to murder as many Jews as he could. And so he wanted to join Hamas. This is about a dozen years ago. He wanted to join Hamas. So he makes arrangements to meet with some leaders of Hamas. So, he's walking down the road toward that meeting, and he's blocked by a vision of Jesus who stops him and says, Omar, this is not the plan I have for your life. I want you to turn around. I want you to go home. This is not what I want for your life. Well, it freaks him out. Right? And so what does he do? He turns around. He goes home. That afternoon he lived in an apartment building. That afternoon, an American family was moving into the apartment across the hall. And he goes over there and he says, I just had this vision of Jesus telling me that and he explained the vision. And he said, as a Christian, can you tell me what it means? And this Christian man said, well, let me just do this. And he opens the bible, and he shares the gospel with him. And Omar not only becomes a Christian, but today he himself is an underground church planter in The Middle East. Omar's not his real name, by the way. So there you have, again, external corroboration. The image, the vision he had pointed him ultimately towards somebody else who then explained the gospel. That to me tells me this is more than a subconscious manifestation of something in our heads. Yes. And that's what as someone trained in journalism and law, I'm I'm looking for those kind of instances of corroboration. Speaker 0: Visions are something we associate with hallucinogenic drugs. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: What is that? What are the visions produced by Ayahuasca and LSD? Speaker 1: There are what I would call naturalistic visions. In other words, visions that are caused by things that we can determine are natural I mean, natural, medically natural. Chemicals. Chemicals. I'll give you an example. In 2011, I had a condition called hyponatremia. Hyponatremia is a severe drop in your blood sodium level, And it causes your brain to expand in your head. Well, there's no room for your brain to expand very And so you have hallucinations and almost died as a result of it. Speaker 0: Just out of the blue you had this. Speaker 1: Well, it was combination of several things I had. I was allergic to a drug that they'd given me because I'd lost my voice, and they gave me a steroid, and I was allergic to the steroid. I didn't know I had pneumonia, which can be a factor. I'd lost a kidney, which I wasn't aware of, and that regulates sodium. So I had all these weird things Speaker 0: going This was the Job period. Speaker 1: Yeah, was the Job period. That's right. So here I am. I had hallucinations. I saw demons. I saw weird things. Do I believe they were from God? No. Do I believe they're from Satan? No. Do I believe they were demons? No. I think they were a product of the medical problem I had of my sodium dropping so low. Speaker 0: How long did this go on? Where were you when you saw these visions? Speaker 1: I was at home, and I I finally felt unconscious. They called the paramedics. I woke up in the emergency room, and the doctor looked down at me and said, you're one step away from a coma, two steps away from dying. And then I went unconscious again. The problem That was the message the doctor gave me. I know. Pretty reassuring. I know. You think he could have sugarcoated it a little. The last thing you heard was you're dying? Yeah. I know. It's like, hey. Give me the e give me the sugarcoated first. But the problem is they have to raise the sodium level very carefully because twenty five percent of people with this condition end up mentally or physically disabled. So they have to raise it. So I was in the hospital about a week and they had to gently, slowly raise Speaker 0: One potato chip at a time. Speaker 1: Exactly. So do I think those were mystical? Do I believe I really saw a demon? Probably not. I think that was a medically induced phenomenon. I don't have any external corroboration other than to say it was these low sodium, that it's known to cause hallucinations, and it had hallucinations. So, I think there are medical things that can cause that. There are drugs that can cause hallucinations. Now, God is over all. I get that. But as a skeptic, I'm always looking for those cases where we have evidence that it's true beyond the experience itself. Speaker 0: There are certain forms of what we refer to as mental illness Yeah. Which is like a phrase invented by people pretty recently. Yeah. And clearly, are forms of mental illness, I I think, I guess, whatever that is. But there are certain people who have visions that are very unpleasant Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: And that bear, like, almost a precise resemblance to the demonic possession described Speaker 1: in the New Testament. May be they may be demonic. I I don't know. Yeah. I have to evaluate each one to try to determine Speaker 0: Of course. These are broad brushes, but you do is it fair to conclude that maybe not everything the shrink tells you is mental illness? Yeah. They can never describe where it comes from or how to fix it. They have no idea, But whatever. They know nothing, to be clear. But is it fair to assume that maybe some of that is spiritual? Speaker 1: Yes. I think it can very well be. I would look at, you know, all of the factors involved. Where we have the external corroboration like people left with scratches on them or bruises that cannot be explained, where we have levitation, where we have people speaking in a language they don't know, spontaneously speaking Latin, things like that. Then that is external corroboration to me that there's something demonic going on. It doesn't mean it couldn't be demonic. I'm just saying those are the cases I'm more comfortable in concluding that they're demonic when I've got that kind of external corroboration. Speaker 0: But speaking in languages you don't know is also can also be is described as in in the acts of the apostles as a manifestation of the holy spirit of God indwelling. Speaker 1: That's right. There there are other languages people speak, but not when they're spitting at at clergy who are trying to exercise Speaker 0: Oh, is that a sign? Speaker 1: Yeah. That could be a sign. Speaker 0: When you're cringing before a crucifix and you're trying to bite people. But what about glossolalia? What about speaking in tongues? Speaker 1: Yeah. That is a spiritual gift. There are Christians who believe that those gifts have ended with the apostolic age and are no longer applicable. There are other Christians who believe they are still active in this world. I believe they are still active. I've met Christians who speak in other tongues and others who interpret that. So I believe it's it's it's a gift that still takes place. I have not experienced that personally, but I have credible people who do and have experienced that. There are other Christians though who say, no, no, no, that ended with the apostles. So that's one of those side issues theologically that when we get to heaven, we can raise our hands and ask God, hey, what about that speaking in tongues thing? Speaker 0: Yeah. No. I know that there's a debate over I I have no idea what I think about it, but it is I guess just as a factual matter, it's true that there are people who seized by some unseen force begin speaking in languages they have never learned. Speaker 1: Yes. And often this is a generally, would say this is not a language that other people speak. It is a Or Speaker 0: have ever spoken? Speaker 1: Yeah. Have ever spoken. It's a spiritual language, But then there's someone, and this is a good corroboration, someone who can interpret that, and they understand it, this language, even though it is a spiritual language. It's not Latin. It's not Greek. It's a it's a spiritual language, and that someone else is able to hear, and they have a gift as well to interpret what is being said. I Speaker 0: gotta take you down one other back alley here So really they're both the Hebrews and the early Christians wrote extensively about the concept of a name. Yeah. God's name, holy be your name. Yes. In the name of God, the name of Jesus. What does that mean exactly? Why the name? Speaker 1: It means a couple things. I mean, to to do things in the name of God, Yahweh, in the name of God, is to do something consistent with how God is leading you and how scriptures would suggest that you act. So in other words, to act in God's name is to do something consistent with his character. So if I do something charitable to my personal loss and yet to someone else who's in great need, I do that in God's name. I do that because this is what the Bible teaches me. That should be generous and helpful to our people who are hurting. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: Names, you know, names can in scripture, scripture, you know, you you look at the name of Jesus as called Emmanuel. Well, he's never called Emmanuel. It said it was his name. But what that means in in the ancient language is that he's that he is god with us. That's what Immanuel means, God with us. And that was the name given to Jesus, but that wasn't the name he was called, but it was a name that was associated with Jesus. So names have all kinds of implications in in ancient Judaism and early Christianity. Speaker 0: Sure seems that way. Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean Now we just name people according to what yeah. Everybody's Speaker 0: What we see on friends. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Speaker 0: But but I mean, you know, observing Jews do not spell out the name of God. Right? They leave the vowels out. Speaker 1: That's Speaker 0: right. The name is itself holy. Just the name. Speaker 1: Yes. That's right. The name that's right. They would and and they would talk around the name. There's a verse in Luke 15 where it says that there is rejoicing in heaven. How does it go? Yeah. I can't think of the exact terminology, but basically, it's a way of saying there's rejoicing in heaven whenever a person becomes a Christian without saying the name of God rejoicing. It kinda talks around that a bit. So there there's a hesitation, and in fact, a something you didn't wanna do in ancient Jewish world is to use the name of God that was forbidden. Speaker 0: Like at all? Speaker 1: Yeah. You wouldn't use it. You would and you wouldn't spell it out. You talk around it. Speaker 0: Because it's so powerful. Speaker 1: So holy. Yeah. Speaker 0: It could hurt you. So near death experiences. Walk toward the light, Lee. What's a near death experience? Speaker 1: A near death experience is when a person is clinically dead. That is generally no brain waves, no respiration, No brain waves. Yeah. They're clinically dead. Yet, they're gonna be revived, and so they're dead for a period of time, clinically dead, but they're not permanently dead. So the body will be revived at some point. Speaker 0: So by the measurements of science, they're Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. Speaker 0: So maybe right there, if we just pause, like, maybe right there we have further evidence that science, while useful, of course, and life improving in some ways, does not have the tools to measure the totality of the experience. Speaker 1: Well, you know, it So they're Speaker 0: actually like, that's the failure. Like, they're obviously not dead. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. They are coming back. That's right. They all the signs are that they're dead. But, you know, the Bible says that, and Christianity teaches that when a person dies, their spirit separates from their body. And this is what we see in a near death experience. This is evidence for the soul, for the spirit. So the physical body is clinically dead. There's there's no sign of life in the body. They're still working on you. Speaker 0: Has has once again Yeah. Has there ever been a culture that we're aware of in the entire span of human history that did not believe in the soul? Speaker 1: They all did. Speaker 0: They thought that people were just meat puppets and Speaker 1: Exact I quote I quote experts in the book that talk about that, that there has every civilization believed in the spirit, a spirit, a soul that continues to live on after we die. Speaker 0: Our leaders don't believe that. Speaker 1: Well, that's not only tragic, it's dangerous. Because if you if you believe we are only our brain, we're only neurons that are firing, that means technically we have no free will. And seriously, you're saying we don't have free how do you punish someone for doing something wrong if they really didn't have free will? Speaker 0: Means we have no inherent rights. Speaker 1: We have no right and wrong. Speaker 0: Does a rock have a right now? Speaker 1: Exactly. Right. Speaker 0: So so maybe that should be the acid test for leadership. If you don't believe human beings have souls, if if that's not the basis of the way you understand other people, it's a separate person with a distinct and unique soul. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: If you don't believe that Yeah. You can have no power Yeah. In our society. Is that fair? Speaker 1: I like that. I like that. I never thought of that before, but I certainly wouldn't trust a person personally, morally, if if they believed only that we are Speaker 0: Trust me. I wouldn't I wouldn't give him a driver's license. Speaker 1: That's scary. It is scary. You don't Speaker 0: think other people have souls? Exactly. What? You're a psychopath? Speaker 1: Exactly. I have a interview in my book with a PhD from Cambridge University in neuroscience who says the evidence is so persuasive that, yes, indeed, we do have a soul. We do have Speaker 0: a spirit. Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaker 0: Yes. Thank you neuroscientists. Yeah. Speaker 1: Confirming. What's interesting is that we we have cases where people are clinically dead, their spirit separates from their body, and they see or hear things that would have been impossible for them to see or hear if their spirit had not actually separated from their body. So this is confirmation that the soul exists. And let me give you some examples. There's a woman named Maria. She was dying in a hospital in London, England. But she said, I was conscious the whole time. And so here they are working on her body, trying to bring her back. She said, my spirit floated out of my body. I met a divine being. But mainly, I'm looking down from the ceiling of the hospital room at the resuscitation efforts. I'm watching them trying to revive my body. And then at some point, the reviving works and the spirit returns to the body. And she says, by the way, see the ceiling fan here in this room, the hospital room? There's a red sticker on top of one of the blades of the ceiling fan. Now you couldn't see it from the room because it's on the top of one of the blades of the ceiling fan, but she saw it because from her perspective, near the ceiling watching resuscitation, she was looking down. So they got a ladder. They went up there. Sure enough, on the top of this blade, here's the sticker exactly as she has described it. That tells me that she really did have an out of body experience just as the Bible describes. And and this is extremely common. We have a woman woman, she's a young girl. She was nine years old, so I recall eight or nine. She drowned in a swimming pool, a YMCA. Horrible. Horrible. Her brain had swelled. She had no respiration, no heartbeat. She was clinically dead. So they brought her to the hospital to keep her body alive mechanically till they decided what to do, you know, And they continued to try to revive her. But as it turns out, three days later, she was revived and with no brain damage. And she said, by the way, Speaker 0: I was Seriously? Speaker 1: Yeah. And she said, I was conscious the whole time. And they said, well, that's not possible. And so the doctors who were skeptical said, here, here's a piece of paper and a crayon. Why don't you draw the emergency room where we took you when you were dead? So she picks up the crayon. She draws the emergency room exactly as it appears. And then she said, by the way, one night when my parents visited me in the hospital, I followed them home, and I watched as my mom she was making chicken soup with rice on the stove, and my dad was sitting in a certain chair, and he was looking in a certain direction. And her brother, she said, was playing with a GIO Joe Jeep in his bedroom, and these are the clothes that they were wearing. Everything was exactly correct. How do you explain that if she didn't have an authentic out of body experience while she was clinically dead? So this is affirmation that near death experiences do point toward a spirit, a soul that separates from our body at the time of death. Now, can return to our body if we're revived, and and that's what happens in these cases. Interestingly, there was a study done of twenty one blind people, either blind since birth or shortly thereafter. They were able to see or had visualized like perceptions during their near death experiences. So, there's a woman named Vicky. Wait. What? Yeah. Vicky Umapag, 26 years old. She's blind, virtually since birth. She is killed in a car crash. She's a passenger in a car. She's killed. But she said later, I was conscious the whole time. And her spirits floated out and she watched she's able to see the resuscitation efforts. She was able to see childhood friends who she'd never seen in person, but she knew intuitively who they were. Oh, that's Mary. That's Jimmy. She sees birds for the first time. She sees trees and so forth. And then when her body is revived and her spirit returns to her body, she's blind again. Medical researchers said this is impossible based on current medical knowledge. How does this happen? So there's a phenomenon here that tells me that there's corroboration, that there's something to this idea that we have a soul, a spirit that is different than our physical brain and body. And I'll add this. This is really important. John is I interview him for my book. John Burke is a Christian pastor who, with an engineering degree and science background, who studied 1,500 cases of near death experiences in-depth. He has video interviews with people and so forth. And here's his conclusion. He said, Lee, if you look at not how people interpret what happens because we all interpret things through our worldview. Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: If you're a Muslim, if you're a Hindu, you're gonna interpret things differently. Forget that. Set that aside. Just look at what actually takes place during a typical near death experience. That is consistent with the Christian bible. Speaker 0: And what is it that's consistent? Speaker 1: Well, things like encountering a divine being, things like encountering people who had preceded you in death, things like a life review where your life is reviewed, and you not only experience with this divine figure next to you who's encouraging you. It's not a judgmental kind of a way. It's you're judging yourself. You're you're reviewing every little action you took, but you're able for the first time to see the ripple effects of that. So I may have done something that hurt you years ago, and I never realized the impact that had on you and and how that caused you to do this, that, and the other thing. And yet in this life review, you you see not only what you did, and you did good and you did bad, but the ramifications of it. Yes. That's that takes place. Now, you're not permanently dead. The Bible says in Hebrews, we're appointed once to die and then the judgment. So, you would think that, biblically speaking, you would die and then you would encounter judgment. Well, you're not permanently dead. You're coming back. This is not your permanent death. So, this is kind of a taste, a foretaste of what death is like. But you're not permanently dead, you're just clinically dead. But you still have some of the attributes of what the Bible talks about in terms of a judgment. So I think reassuring for Christians like me who used to think, oh, that's New Age stuff. Near death experience, that's weird. There have been, Tucker, 900 scholarly articles written about near death experiences in medical journals and scientific journals over the last fifty years. This is a very well researched area, and they have concluded that there is no natural explanation that can account for all of the aspects of a near death experience. It's a fascinating area. And and and so I interview, as I said, John Burke, who's an expert on them, to give examples of this sort of thing. Speaker 0: What about pre death? Speaker 1: Yes. This is death visions. This is this is this is new. Can I just Speaker 0: add one editorial comment? Yeah. I'm so filled with rage I have to do it. That our culture systematically excludes real conversations about death. Obviously, we're very pro death, you know, kill your baby, euthanize your parents, whatever. We're all about death. But the actual experience of death is kind of cloaked for most people, and I don't I don't think they have any idea what it is when someone dies, process of dying. And so this is a welcome conversation. Speaker 1: Tucker, it's fascinating. These deathbed visions the difference between a near death experience and deathbed vision is in a near death experience, a person's gonna come back. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: In a deathbed vision, this is a vision someone has just before they die. They're not coming back. I mean, they're permanently gonna die. But we see a biblical example of this in the book of Acts. We see Stephen, who is described as being full of the holy spirit, who is on the verge of being stoned to death, and he looks up and he sees the heavens open up and he sees the father and the son together. So this is has a biblical precedent. But what is fascinating, and I think what you said is so true, people don't like to talk about it because Speaker 0: At all. Speaker 1: Yeah. At all. Because you're if you have one of these experiences before you die, you think they're gonna think I'm I've got dementia. They're gonna think I'm nuts. They're gonna they're gonna think you know? So a lot of people don't like to talk about it. So there's a researcher. He went to a huge hospice facility in New York State, and they went to all the dying people, and they said, please, as a favor, if you have a vision, a dream unlike any you've ever had, Tell us. Would you tell us? And so eighty eight percent of those dying people had a pre death vision that they reported on before they died. Eighty eight percent. I think the other twelve percent probably had one, but they died before they were able to say anything. Speaker 0: Or they were so high on morphine, they couldn't talk. Speaker 1: That's true. They get people get drugged up. That's true. Speaker 0: So there's that. I mean, obviously, you you don't want people to suffer. You wanna alleviate suffering and alleviate pain. I'm totally for that. I I wanna be clear about it. But there's also this custom which has grown to ubiquity. Now it's just it's everybody who dies, gets from the hospice nurses. Yeah. They kill you with morphine. Mean, yes. No one wants to say that out loud, but I've seen it. They they kill you with morphine. Yeah. And okay. First, we should just be honest about what's happening Yeah. Always. But second, we should be clear about the cost. So if people if Yes. Everybody on the way out is getting visions of some kind Yes. Maybe there's a purpose to the vision. Exactly. Maybe we shouldn't short circuit that. Speaker 1: And, Tucker, maybe there's also corroboration for these. So in other words, they did one study of 3,000 of these, and they determined this is not just something coming from the subconscious mind. There is something else here. And I'll give you the example of the corroboration. There was a woman named Doris. She's dying on her deathbed, and she has a pre death vision. And she sees the heavens open up, and she sees angelic beings, and she sees her father who had died several years earlier, and he's kind of almost welcoming her to the next realm. But then she gets this confused look on her face, and she says, wait a minute. Why is Vaida with my father? What what what why would why would Vaida be there? Makes no sense. What why would Vaida be there? And then she died. Vida was her sister. Her sister had died two weeks earlier, but no one had told Doris because she was so ill they didn't want the news to kill her. So they withheld the news that her sister Vida had died, and yet on her deathbed, she sees Vita in the world to come. That is fairly common. It actually happened with my father-in-law. So that to me is a corroboration. Another form of corroboration, get this, in the bible, in Luke 16, there's a story of a rich man and a beggar who both die. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And the rich man goes to a place of torment. Yeah. And the beggar goes to a place of bliss. Speaker 0: The rich man, by way, has walked past poor man every day Speaker 1: That's right. Speaker 0: And ignored him. Speaker 1: And ignored him. So the beggar, according to Jesus in verse 22, is accompanied by angels to heaven. That angels accompany him to heaven. And what's particularly fascinating is people who have predeth visions often see angels coming for them, just as Jesus suggested in that parable. So, for instance, the most famous skeptic in Canada, Charles Templeton. Charles Templeton was the pulpit partner of Billy Graham. He was gonna be the great evangelist. But then he went to a liberal seminary. He lost his faith. He wrote an ugly book called Farewell to God, My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith. And I got to know him. He became a friend. I actually wrote a book called The Case for Faith where I answered all his objections to Christianity, and we became friends. Anyway, he ended up coming back to faith in Christ before he died. And then he's on his deathbed, and he calls out to his wife, Madeleine. Madeleine, what what, Chuck? Can you see them? What what are you talking about? They're in the room. You can't see them. They're right here in this room. They're the angels. They're coming for me. Oh, they're so beautiful. Look at them. They're so the singing is so beautiful. They're coming for me. I'm going to heaven. I'm gonna be with god. That is incredibly common that people will see angels coming for them in that vision they had before that. Now now here's another bit of corroboration. Children who are dying will see angels, but not like you would expect them to be seen. In other words, let's say a five year old who's dying. What is their image of an angel? Well, it's a furry thing with or feathery thing with big wings. Cartoon. Right? It's a cartoon. They all have big wings. And so there's a case from a doctoral dissertation I read of a little girl who's dying, and she says, mommy, mommy, can you see the angels? They're coming for me. Oh, they're so beautiful. They're so beautiful. Their eyes. Look at their eyes. And the mother didn't wanna disappoint her. So she said, oh, yeah. Yeah. I see them. Look at their big wings. And little girl said, oh, mommy, they don't have wings. And she was able to describe them in vivid detail before she died. Wow. You would think if a child of that age was gonna have just a vision from their imagination of angels coming for them, they would have big wings. They don't. Speaker 0: In the hallmark version. Speaker 1: That's right. And in in case after case, they don't see the big wings. And by the way, the bible doesn't say that all angels have wings. So that to me is another very interesting dynamic of these pre death visions. Speaker 0: Not all people on their deathbed have joyful visions That's right. Or reunited with loved ones in the next world. Yes. There are many people who are in terror Yes. And horrified. Yes. And can you describe that and what is it? Speaker 1: Yes. We have this in near death experiences and in deathbed visions where people who are about to die have a glimpse, I believe, of a hellish experience to come. And they are frightened beyond belief and and scared beyond words. I'll give you an example of a near death vision where this happened. There's a man named Howard Storm. Howard was an atheist. He was a professor of art at a secular university, chairman of the art department, and he was visiting France, and he died of a heart attack. So here he is. He's in a French hospital. He's dead. But he said later, was conscious the whole time. It was a near death experience. His spirit had separated from his body. And there were some people in the hallway say, Howard, we've been waiting for you. Come with us. Come with us. So, he does. And he's walking down the hallway. His spirit is walking down the hallway with these people. And it goes on and on and on, and it gets darker and darker. And then they're becoming abusive. And they're saying, come on, come on. Why are you so slow? And then they start to attack him. And he said, no horror movie can ever capture the horror of what they did to me. I mean, he was absolutely mauled. He said I was roadkill. Speaker 0: And he said, I called out to God. Like physically mauled. Speaker 1: Yes. Eyes gouged out, ears ripped off. It's just horror. And he calls out to Jesus, Jesus, rescue me. And this white oar becomes and brings him and rescues him from that, and he is restored. Well, ultimately, his body is revived. His spirit returns to his body. This is such a profound experience that he not only renounced his atheism, he not only quit his tenured position as chairman of the art department at a secular university, he not only became a Christian, he went to seminary, he became a pastor, and today he's a pastor of this little church. I think it's in Kentucky or Oklahoma or somewhere in the middle of nowhere serving God. That's how transformative this experience was. Speaker 0: Amazing. Speaker 1: But there are multiple cases of people having horrific in fact, one study of near death experiences said it was twenty four percent had negative experiences, not positive. Speaker 0: Doesn't feel like a good sign. Speaker 1: No. No. I mean, what it does to me is it's affirmation that, you know what? What the Bible tells us is true. There is a heaven. There is a hell. And every Speaker 0: society ever has thought that. Yeah. Society. And I think everyone intuitively knows that. Yeah. I've never had a near death experience, but the one time I thought I was gonna die many years ago, I was in a plane crash. I I was filled with sadness. I I had no peace at all. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. None. Only regret. Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. So I I did take that as a as a an indication I should change the way I was living, and I did. Speaker 1: Oh, god. You said in your life. Speaker 0: Well, I felt I felt that way, and certainly in retrospect, I think that. Yeah. But I remember thinking, wow, I'm gonna die. I was certain of it. And and I thought later, I thought that when people knew they were gonna die, they were filled with, like, peace and warmth and Yeah. Walked toward the light. That was Speaker 1: not my experience at all. It was like, man, I can't believe I did Speaker 0: a few things. Oh. And I've really felt sad about it. Yeah. So Speaker 1: Well, that's the reality. Well, but I guess it's Speaker 0: yeah, well, it was the reality that I experienced for sure, but I also think that it's what a blessing Yes. To have an opportunity to, you know, to to turn back Yeah. And change. Speaker 1: That's the thing about these near death experiences that you have another chance. You don't have it in deathbed vision, but you're gonna be revived, and then you have a choice to make. Is that the road I continue Speaker 0: to wanna Speaker 1: go down? Speaker 0: The first thing I did was quit drinking and then had a fourth child. Speaker 1: Wow. It's awesome. Speaker 0: Yeah. Was it was awesome. It was awesome. It was literally awesome. Wow. So yes. So I I think that there's something real there, and it does seem like a crime of some kind to deprive people of that Yeah. With drugs. Speaker 1: I know. Speaker 0: I know. Experiences it just like anything else. Yeah. Like, maybe there's a reason. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's not random. Maybe. You know, I'd encourage people who are watching or listening to this podcast. Next time you have a big family get together with the cousins and the uncles and the aunts and all that, ask people, do we have any family stories about deathbed visions or near death experiences? I bet you you'll find, oh, Uncle Bob had that experience or Cousins Jim had that experience. I was having dinner with seven people in Oklahoma City and four of them, we've talked about this, four of them had relatives who had pre death visions. I but I'm not surprised. It's incredibly common. Speaker 0: I've I've never asked that question at a dinner party, but I have asked, has anyone seen a ghost? Yeah. 100% of the time, there's some at the table who has. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. What is that? Speaker 1: Ghosts I have a chapter on ghosts and psychics in my book. The technical definition of a ghost is someone who dies but refuses to go into the afterlife. Their spirit refuses to go into the next life. I don't see that in the bible. So, I don't think that ghosts per se are from God. I think most likely an apparition that we interpret as being ghosts is most like a demonic apparition. Speaker 0: I think people feel that. Speaker 1: I I think so. Speaker 0: They feel have a bad rep. Speaker 1: Yes. You know? Yeah. They Speaker 0: No one no one is summoning ghosts. Speaker 1: It's not like Casper who's gonna bring you some flowers. Speaker 0: Know? Generally, are anti ghost. Yes. Yes. Ghost stories. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Ghosted. Yeah. It's not not a good connotation. Yeah. So I don't think that surprises anyone. Speaker 1: So I I do talk about ghosts, and and and I talk about psychics and the tricks that they use to convince people that they're Speaker 0: Are you pro psychic? Sorry? Are you pro psychic? Speaker 1: I'm anti psychic. Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. I am too. Why are you anti psychic? Speaker 1: Because the bible says do not consult mediums. Do not consult psychics. I mean, it's very clear. Multiple places in scripture do not do it. Speaker 0: Oh, it well, among the ancient Hebrews, that was a death penalty offense. Speaker 1: Exactly. It was. And so you just it's not something we wanted to mess with, and I think there's gotta be reasons for that. I think it because it opens the door to the demonic that you're trying to consult the dead. You're trying to find out something apart from what God might reveal through a psychic, through a medium who supposedly has a cultic wherewithal and is able to take you down that pathway. It's dangerous. And I talk in the book about the tricks that they use to I mean, there's things like cold readings and warm readings and hot readings where people who wanna fool you into thinking they know more about you than they do will employ that. They think, oh my gosh, this person knows all about me. No, they don't. They're just very clever people who are able to read certain things about you. Speaker 0: No. I mean, there of course, there's a lot of BS gypsy tricks. Speaker 1: But I'll tell you one case. Speaker 0: It's all real. True in the in the bible that, at least in my read of it, that they're taken seriously. Speaker 1: Well, there are cases That's Speaker 0: why it's a death penalty offense, not because not because it's fake, because Speaker 1: it's real. Because it can be real. And, yeah, that's a good way to argue it. There is a case in contemporary times where president Carter was president, and a two engine aircraft went down and crashed in Africa. And the United States government was trying to find it. I don't know why, but they they wanted to find that aircraft. And they had satellites repositioned looking for they could not find the wreckage of this airplane. And so the Stansfield Turner, who was the head of the CIA, consulted a medium, a psychic in California. She went into a trance, and she gave the longitude and latitude of where to find the plane. They went, they reoriented the satellites, and boom, there was a wreckage of the plane just as she had said. What do you do with that? That tells me she was in connection with something there. Now if the bible says don't be connecting with psychics, it was probably demonic. And why would she do that? Because now she's got credibility. Now the next time they wanna know something, let's go to that woman in California, told us where that plane was. She seems to have these abilities to know the future, to know things that we don't know, and now she has credibility. I think that was a way for Satan to give her credibility so that we'd be fooled into thinking into the future to take advantage of her psychic Yeah. Speaker 0: Best not to play with that stuff. Speaker 1: No. No. It's best to stay away from that. Speaker 0: So contacting dead relatives through a medium, Ouija boards, all that stuff, scary bad. Yeah. On the other hand, I mean, that's my position. Yeah. I'm sure it's yours. Yeah. I came to that position through experience, not just guessing. It's bad. However, I know a lot of decent, God fearing people who have said, well, I I really feel like I was contacted by a dead relative, a dead loved one. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's an interesting and I have a couple of cases I talked about in the book of that, that seemingly are corroborated. What do you do with that? Because Speaker 0: Why how is that inconsistent with your theology? Speaker 1: On the one hand, there are a couple of cases in scripture where the dead have come back like that. Elijah came back at the the transfiguration. Yep. So there's an example of a dead person coming back. There's the other example of in the old testament of a going to a medium and a dead person coming back, not because of the power of the medium because she was surprised it happened, but through the power of God, he allowed that dead person to come back. So there are a couple of perhaps precedents in scripture of dead people coming back. Re one of the reasons I'm skeptical is because when Jesus was talking about in Luke 16 about the rich man who died and the beggar who died, he talked about a gulf between the living and the dead. That concerns me. So that raises some questions in my mind. I think the transfiguration and the incident with what's called the medium of Endor in the Old Testament may be one offs. And those were unusual circumstances. So I'm Tucker, I don't I'm not quite sure what to do with it because I talk about a couple of cases in the book where a dead relative returns and a person talks to that relative, and then they disappear, and then their their child comes in, eight year old child says, I just saw grandpa. I just talked to him. So he experienced the same vision. Well, that's pretty weird. Yeah. Is that corroboration and so forth? Well, here's my concern. So many times the people have contact with these dead people. These are people that lived ungodly lives. And yet they say everything's fine. I'm fine. Everything's good. Just take care of the family. Tell everybody I love them. I'm good. Don't worry about me. That's the general message people get. Well, what does that say to someone who is thinking about what do I need to do to live a life that will bring me to heaven and to God? Well, uncle Tom came and told me he's fine. He didn't he was a he was a adulterer and a he never came to faith in Jesus. He's a, you know, bad guy. And yet he says he's fine in the afterlife. Wouldn't that be something that a demon might wanna imitate to send a false message? I I think maybe. So I guess I'm giving you two answers. One is there is some biblical precedent for a dead coming back, but I think they may be one offs. I'm not sure. I think there'd be a good motive for Satan to counterfeit that. You know, it says Satan can appear as an angel of light as a counterfeit, he can fool us into thinking he's something he's not. Would that be to his advantage to do, to mislead people? I think it could be. So I'm not quite sure where I'm at. Speaker 0: Are UFOs what we call UFOs spiritual entities? Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't get into UFOs in the book. It's a fascinating topic. Maybe I'll do another book on that, but so I didn't research it thoroughly. Having said that, though, it would not be an affront to my faith if indeed we found intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. The bible doesn't say that we are unique in that Speaker 0: No. It it doesn't. But but I wonder Speaker 1: Could they be spiritual? Is a question. Yeah. Yeah. Could be. It could be. Yes. Is it? I don't know. I I just not as knowledgeable on that to be able to give a strong opinion. Speaker 0: Last question. Miracles. Yeah. What is a miracle? Speaker 1: A miracle is an event brought about by the power of God that is a temporary exception to the ordinary course of nature for the purpose of showing that God has acted in history. So in other words, a lot of people Speaker 0: Nice definition. Speaker 1: Thank you. That's from Robert Purtill, who was a philosopher. He he he I thought that was the best definition I'd heard. Here's the problem. A lot of skeptics will say, I don't believe in miracles because you can't violate the laws of nature. So by definition, a miracle is impossible. We haven't Speaker 0: even settled on the laws of nature. They're so dumb. Speaker 1: Well, here's how I answer. Speaker 0: We don't even like, the laws of nature, really? Science every day challenges the laws of nature. Speaker 1: Especially with quantum physics and everything. Exactly. But I say, look, I have a glass of water here. If I were to drop it, the law of gravity would say it would hit the floor. Yeah. But if I drop it and you reached in and grabbed it before it hit the floor, you're not violating the law of gravity. You're not overturning the law of gravity. You're just intervening. And that's what a miracle is, is God intervening temporarily into his creation. He brought it about. So, of course, he could intervene. And, man Speaker 0: But again, our understanding of nature and its laws changes every day. Speaker 1: And it's so shallow. It's so shallow what we know and Speaker 0: what But, I mean, our, I mean, our view of what is natural is different now Yeah. From what it was five years ago. Speaker 1: Yeah. And what it'll be five years from Speaker 0: now. Exactly. Yeah. That's just the silliness and the shallowness of claims like that kind of shocked me. Speaker 1: It does. Speaker 0: So miracles but, you know, to the extent we can know, like, this is so unusual, like, this couldn't have happened accidentally. Speaker 1: Give you an example. Yeah. Please do. And this one I personally investigated and it's been widely documented. A woman named Barbara, she was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic, we got all those records with multiple sclerosis as a teenager. It was progressive. She got worse very quickly. So she just got worse and worse and worse, multiple hospitalizations to the point where the doctor said, look, and her parents said, look, next time she gets pneumonia, which she would get on a regular basis, we're just gonna let her die. Speaker 0: Let her go. Yeah. Speaker 1: Because we're just postponing the inevitable. So here she is on her deathbed. She hadn't walked in seven years, so her muscles had atrophy. Her fingers were she was curled up like a pretzel. Her fingers were touching her wrists. Her feet were permanently extended. Her diaphragm was one diaphragm was paralyzed. So her one lung was collapsed. The other lung was at half full. She had a tube in her throat that went to oxygen canisters in the garage. She was in hospice at home so she could breathe. So she got a tube in her throat. She had lost her urination and bowels and control of those. She'd lost her eyesight, so all she saw was gray shapes. And and she's on her deathbed. She's dying. Well, some people said, wait a minute. Let's call WMBI, the Christian radio station at the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, and asked people on the radio show to pray for poor Barbara. She's dying. So they did. Well, we documented that at least 450 people began praying for Barbara because they wrote letters to Barbara saying, I'm praying for you and to encourage her. So here we are in Pentecost Sunday nineteen eighty one. She is in her bedroom, and her aunt and two girlfriends are reading her some of these encouraging letters from people praying for her. And from the corner of the room where nobody was, she heard the voice of God. And the voice said, my child, get up and walk. Well, she hadn't walked in seven years. She had no muscle tone in her legs. She she pulled out the tube so she could talk, and she said, don't know what you're gonna think of this, but God just told me to get up and walk. Go find my parents. I want them to be here. So they ran out, but she couldn't wait. She jumped out of bed. She told me she said, Lee, the first thing I noticed, my feet were flat in the floor. And they hadn't been flat for years. They've been rigidly extended, but they were flat in the floor. Second thing I noticed, my hands had opened up like flowers, and they hadn't opened up in years. And then she said, the third thing I noticed, I could see. I said she said, wouldn't you think that'd be the first thing I noticed? It was actually the third thing I noticed. She was instantaneously completely healed of multiple sclerosis. Her mother came running in, fell to her knees, and grabbed her calves, and said, your muscle tone has come back. It was Pentecost Sunday. There was a service at their church, Wheaton Wesleyan Church. They went they decided to go and thank God that she was fine. She's dancing, literally dancing around the house with her father. So they go to church. They're in the back. The pastor gets up and says, does anybody have any announcements? Barbara comes walking down center aisle. People freaked out because they'd haven't seen her except in a wheelchair for seven years. They began singing spontaneously, Amazing Grace, I Once Was Blind, Now I See. Totally healed. She goes the next day to her doctor, one of her doctors. He said later, he said, I saw her walking down the hallway toward my office. My first thought was, oh, she died, and that's a ghost. He said, this is medically impossible, and it is medically impossible. She was instantaneously totally healed of multiple sclerosis. She ended up marrying a pastor, that little Wesleyan church in Fredericksburg, Virginia. And I got to know her sweetest woman. Is she still alive? She just recently they read this happened 1981, lived perfectly healthy all these years. She just died in Florida. They just retired just a few months ago. So she found but she completely healed and Speaker 0: So what the okay. That's a Speaker 1: What do you do with that? What do you do with that? Speaker 0: Well, that's a challenge to, like, the most basic understanding of everything. Yes. Right? Yep. So if she's on her deathbed from MS Yeah. Which is a well studied Yes. Disease, you know, like you would think that, you know, Harvard Medical School would just like cease cease operations until they figured I out what that Speaker 1: know. You know why? I mentioned to my doctor, I said, I told him the story, he said, it'd be interesting to know because there's plaque that develops in the brain in multiple sclerosis. It'd be interesting to know, did that plaque disappear? And I said, which is the greater miracle that the plaque would disappear or that God would totally heal her Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 1: With the plaque still there. I I don't know which a greater miracle Speaker 0: would be. I guess my question is was how could we in a in a advanced country allow a case like that Speaker 1: To go unnoticed Speaker 0: and unstudied. Speaker 1: I know. It was the next day. It was in in the Chicago Tribune, which most newspapers don't cover stuff like that. I mean, it's too speculative. Speaker 0: But did she get yeah. But that's not speculative. No. I mean, so she had a team of physicians saying it's time for her to go, and then she's dancing Yeah. And singing Amazing Grace and Hearing a Pastor. So, like but what were doctors calling in to say, I wanna study this case? Speaker 1: There are two doctors who wrote books about it. Wrote books about Yeah. Oh. Well, they they wrote books, and in the books, they talked about her case. Yes. So two of her physicians actually wrote about it in their books. Speaker 0: That's ingrained. Speaker 1: I I know. And and it's not the only one. I don't know. We don't have much time. Give you a real quick one. Yeah. There's a kid who was born, little baby, kept vomiting, couldn't keep down food, kept vomiting, vomiting, and they realized this baby has what's called gastroparesis, which is a paralysis of the stomach. It's an incurable condition. It happens from time to time. You can't live that way. No. So they operated and they put tubes in so that the food would go directly into the small intestine. I don't know if it went through the stomach that was paralyzed or whatever, but that way it's able he was able to live. And he lived that way until for fifteen years, sixteen years. He lived that way. There were restrictions on what he could eat. It was uncomfortable, but at least he was alive. Right? They bring him one day to a church and they asked the pastor, would you pray for him? Pastor puts his hand on his shoulder, begins to pray, and the kid said later, I felt an electric shock go through me at the time he was praying. And he was instantly healed of gastroparesis. There has never been a documented case of anyone ever healed of gastroparesis, a paralyzed stomach. He was totally normal. They went in. They took the tubes out. And today, he's totally healthy. He's a business guy, doing great. I just emailed with him the other day. That, again, this was researched by multiple medical researchers and published as a case study in a medical journal. And in the medical journal, it's probably like, here's what happened. You know? Speaker 0: So that's an incredible story. The girl being cured of MS is an incredible story. Everything you've said is amazing. But so many of the things you've said are also instantly recognizable Yeah. To everyone listening, whatever their religious faith or lack of religious faith as things that do happen, actually. It's real. Yeah. We all know Yeah. That there are things that happen to us and people we know well and love that are outside the ability of science to explain. God. They're supernatural. Yeah. So my final question to you, Lee Strobel, and this has been amazing. Thank you. Speaker 1: Oh, my Speaker 0: pleasure. Is why do we keep ignoring it? Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it goes back to what I said earlier. I think we're embarrassed sometimes by the supernatural that we're gonna think people are gonna think we're nuts. Speaker 0: But if that's real and it clearly is real, then, like, it puts everything else into perspective. Speaker 1: Yeah. And when when you take it seriously and when you look at it How could Speaker 0: you not take it seriously? Speaker 1: If you Speaker 0: up in a culture that tells you none of it's real and yet it's super obvious that it is super obvious Yeah. That it's real in some most general sense, like the supernatural is real. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Then why don't people talk about it all the time? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I think the fact that I've been a Christian since 11/08/1981, and I've never heard a sermon on the topic of angels in my life tells you something. I think I I think we we shy away because we we we wanna be accepted as normal. I I I know why else. Speaker 0: Out of bed on Sunday to sit in a church where they're, like, pretending that nothing they say is true. Speaker 1: It's it's it's a good point. Speaker 0: If we believe if we If it's not supernatural, like, why are you bothering? Speaker 1: Exactly. If you believe in Jesus, you gotta believe in angels. You gotta believe in demons. You gotta believe in Satan. You gotta believe in heaven. You gotta believe in hell. Because if you believe in Jesus, he taught on all those things. Yeah. So my goodness. How could you not? I agree with you. How could you not? Speaker 0: Yeah. I mean, go on. Move on to something else. Yeah. Go play tennis or something. Speaker 1: And if if forty percent of Americans have had an experience that they can only attribute to a miracle of God, that means the other sixty percent probably know one of those forty percent. Right? Yeah. And all my brother had this experience. My cousin had. And we kinda say, what do we do with that? And and I think what we ought to do is look for that which is is corroborated and which is consistent with what we trust to be true, which for me are the Christian scriptures. Speaker 0: If you just fight against distraction Yeah. Consistently for just a day or two, like, I'm not gonna be distracted. I'm just gonna notice. That's it. That's all you do is just notice. I'm just gonna notice stuff. Yeah. If you do that as an exercise literally for forty eight hours, you will experience the supernatural. I think you're right. It's hard to do that. Yeah. Lee Strobel, thank you. Speaker 1: Hey. I enjoyed it. Wonderful. Great to meet you. Speaker 0: Thank you.
Saved - August 21, 2025 at 6:01 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Tucker’s Strange Las Vegas Shooting Story https://t.co/rqmKxMrPXt

Video Transcript AI Summary
Speaker 0: So you were the only mainstream guy who I watched steadily on the story, staying with the Vegas shootings, noting that there's something wrong. Speaker 1: We got very hassled by law enforcement. Speaker 0: I'm sure Speaker 1: you did. You know, I worked at Fox News, obviously, at the time, and big supporters of law enforcement. I've always been a big supporter of law enforcement. We've never gotten hassled anywhere. Just the opposite. Oh, you work for Fox News. Oh my gosh. Of course. Speaker 0: Slow down. Official law enforcement Speaker 1: is what got you. Man. I mean, they blocked our camera position. Oh, yeah. They were totally opposed to us doing that. I've never had that experience.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: So you were the only mainstream guy who I watched steadily on the story, staying with the Vegas shootings, noting that there's something wrong. Speaker 1: We got very hassled by law enforcement. Speaker 0: I'm sure Speaker 1: you did. You know, I worked at Fox News, obviously, at the time, and big supporters of law enforcement. I've always been a big supporter of law enforcement. We've never gotten hassled anywhere. Just the opposite. Oh, you work for Fox News. Oh my gosh. Of course. Speaker 0: Slow down. Official law enforcement Speaker 1: is what got you. Man. I mean, they blocked our camera position. Oh, yeah. They were totally opposed to us doing that. I've never had that experience.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

There aren’t many Ivy League professors as bold as Dave Collum. It’s amazing he still has a job. (0:00) How Collum Predicted the 2008 Financial Crisis (11:44) Collum’s Mission to Uncover the Truth About Covid (17:23) Did Covid Actually Come From a Lab in North Carolina? (19:36) Government Experiments Being Conducted on Foster Care Children (22:17) What’s the Truth About Diddy? (24:09) What’s the Truth About Hunter Biden’s Laptop? (25:09) What’s the Truth About January 6th? (28:07) What’s the Truth About the Assassination Attempt on Donald Trump? (31:26) Collum’s Prophetic Annual Reviews (41:01) The Vegas Shooting (54:16) The Global Political Kayfabe (58:17) What Exactly Is QAnon? (1:00:45) Are We Being Purposefully Distracted From Things That Actually Matter? (1:07:04) The Real Dangers of AI (1:09:44) Wildfires and Directed Energy Weapons (1:13:43) The Censorship Regime’s Evolution (1:19:45) The Real Way to Fix American Universities (1:31:27) The Problem With Affirmative Action and SAT (1:39:16) We’re in a Catastrophic Economic Crisis (1:54:15) The Housing Crisis (2:00:40) What Kind of Assets Should You Invest In? (2:11:17) How Can the Average Person Protect Against a Financial Crisis? Includes paid partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
An Ivy League organic chemist describes pushing scholarly dialogue into public policy and his Cornell experiences, including being canceled in 2020 after a tweet about police and a Buffalo incident; Cornell issued a denouncing letter signed by the president, provost, chief of police, and others, which he calls kabuki. He recounts warning of a banking collapse in 2002, early guest lectures with Morgan Stanley, and the loss of Pfizer consulting. He critiques COVID-19 policy, accusing Fauci and Birx of incompetence or malice, and endorses Doctors for COVID Ethics; he cites VAERS data to question vaccine harms. He discusses lab-origin theories (North Carolina), Ukraine biolabs, gain-of-function, and the strategy of flooding information and QAnon to manipulate narratives. He covers university funding, endowments, DEI, and education reform; financial markets, gold, platinum, energy, and AI. Writing clarifies thinking; he emphasizes skepticism toward official narratives.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Very few college professors do what college professors are supposed to do, which is kind of break through outside campus into the the conversation among smart people about what the world is about. And in other words, they don't they don't kind of influence the broader culture directly, and you do and you're an organic chemistry professor. I how Are you allowed to do this at Cornell? Are you allowed to kind of opine on economics, social policy, foreign policy? Like, what are your administrators saying when you do this? Speaker 1: I don't know if it's generally true, but Cornell's not giving me any golf. The only problem I had with Cornell and we talked, know, we had breakfast and we talked a little bit about I think my colleagues wish I would shut up, but but they don't tell me to shut up, although, you know, they've told me to stay on. I have kind of an intellectual Tourette syndrome where Stay in your lane. Well, I'll be in the middle of class. I can march of o seven. In the middle of class, no warning, I blurred out the banking system's about to collapse. I'd written about it in o two, but I turned I said, I think it's about to collapse. Speaker 0: This is an organic chemistry class? Speaker 1: An organic chemistry class. I and they looked at me and I just said, look, I think the entire banking system's going down the tubes now. And it took another year, year and a half to Speaker 0: Did they say that's not a related discipline? What are you Speaker 1: talking about? No. No. Gave me guff for that. What was entertaining about that particular Tourette's like outburst is that I had the same kids in an honors thesis course two years later in the first lecture, one lecture a week, the first lecture I said, didn't I warn you? This is February. So didn't I warn you that that the banking system was gonna collapse? I said they said, yeah, you did. And I said, did your econ professors tell you that? They said no. And I said, what are those assholes paid for? In this thesis course, I used a lot of guest lectures, so my first guest lecturer was the CEO of Morgan Stanley Bank, and he had cut his teeth on mortgage backed securities and he spent two hours talking about the catastrophe that we were in the middle of in February '9. And and so so, yeah, I do occasionally go off the rails, but but now no one gives me grief. I got canceled in 2020. The closest you and I I've been following you for years, but the closest you and I actually came to actually meeting, but we didn't, was in 2020, I got canceled during the the height of cancel season. Right? Remember how it was happening all the time? And and the probability of me ending up being interviewed by you was pretty high because it was being I got canceled, and it was written up in the federal or some place like that. Speaker 0: And so we you canceled for? Speaker 1: Oh, it was a real crime against humanity. I supported the police. Oh, okay. It was one of those. Remember the guy got knocked over in Buffalo? Yes. A friend of mine, was doing a podcast with that Saturday, posted that late one night and said said, I think this is just appalling when the old guy got knocked over by the riot police. And I watched the video a couple times. I said, well, Chris his name is Chris Irons. I said, we can talk about it on Saturday, but but but I have no idea what he was doing there. So this is in a tweet. And I said I said he was poking riot police with something that looked kinda like a taser or something. Turns out in retrospect, it was a skimmer. And and and so I said it looks like kind of a self inflicted problem to me. Right? I didn't say he deserved it or anything like that, but it it is self inflicted if you poke a riot policeman and he knocks you over. Right? That that that's pretty much, you know Yeah. It's a Darwin Award. Speaker 0: Bears and riot riot policeman shouldn't be poked. Speaker 1: Turns out, what I learned that night was the cancel culture is not organic. It was it was incredibly astroturfed. The speed with which it happened was staggering. It was automated. Yeah. Within within twenty or thirty minutes, email boxes all across the administration were filling with complaints. It it went everywhere. I had to lock down my Twitter feed fast and and things like that. And and then Cornell was on sort of a war footing trying to figure out what to do. Now they're trying to figure out what to do just because they wanted the fire to be put out. Right? So they weren't against me in that sense. It was during the lockdown, so I didn't I didn't actually there was the advantage of everyone was locked down, but I wasn't sure Antifa wouldn't show up, and we know that's not organic either. Right? And so and so and so I slept with some loaded guns, I was emotionally ready to blow someone's brains out. Speaker 0: How many tenured professors in Ivy League schools have guns at home? I don't know. Speaker 1: Just you? I would not well, there's probably more. We have natural resources department, stuff like that, and those guys probably use the resources available. But the the one mistake Cornell made, they made two mistakes. First of all, it turns out the guy was a grifter. The whole thing was faked, and there's there's video footage of him telling people he's gonna go get knocked down and people yelling at him for doing that. It turns out the blood that came out of his ear I've talked to physicians. They said it would never come out like that. There's pictures of him on the gurney talking on his cell phone behind the ambulance. The the press couldn't find him in any of the hospitals. He made a lot of money on GoFundMe. So he he grifted his while he was supposedly in a coma, his Twitter feed, which had all sorts of fuck the police kind of comments, was being scrubbed very quickly. And and so so the turn of the whole thing in retrospect was a grift, so I was dead right. Cornell was on a wharf and trying to figure out how stop this. There's graffiti all over the campus and stuff, and so they made two mistakes. One is at no point did someone from Cornell reach out and say, how are you doing? Right. Because I got North Carolina got canceled and he killed himself. Right. I'm not gonna kill myself. It was unpleasant. I I would admit that. Speaker 0: How long had you been at Cornell at that point? Speaker 1: Oh, that would have been forty years. Speaker 0: Forty years. So you Right. Speaker 1: Plus four years as an undergrad. So, you know, Speaker 0: so spent forty four years at Cornell at that point. So not a newcomer. Speaker 1: No. And and by the way, the guy who was the provost at the time was a friend of mine. He he was he I knew him from the day he got to Cornell. He's now the president and it's useful. So when I I I told I I knew I was coming here and I asked a trustee, gonna I'm be talking to Tucker, is there anything? And you'd like me to somehow get out there, not that I'm gonna be there talking, man, but I it'd stupid to to miss it. And I sent a quick email to the president and said, is there anything? And he gave me a couple bullets, but they were obvious. They were the obvious things. And the second mistake they made is eventually they put together some and the Daily Sun was doing what I called the daily column where where they published an article about what an asshole I was. Right? And they'd write an article about the football team and get the NSA, by the way, did we mention columns and asshole? Right? That sort of thing. So so they they finally wrote a letter denouncing me, and it was signed interestingly by the president, who I didn't really like that much, that president, the provost who's a friend of mine, which was ironic, the chief of police, which was super ironic, and a couple other administrators who was missing was one of our deans, the dean of arts and sciences, who didn't sign it. He would have been an obvious signer, and he once said to me, what good is tenure if you don't have free speech? Now they weren't trying to hurt me. They were just trying to put out a fire and to put it out. So to to in that sense, they did the right thing. Speaker 0: Do they call and tell you they were gonna denounce you before the Speaker 1: No. And and by the way, know a number of trustees at this point, and and they all said they should have just shut up. So that was a mistake. More recently, a guy named Rickman, I think it was, you know, made that statement about it being exhilarated that Israel got attacked. Right? And he shouldn't have said that. Right? That was stupid. But but what people don't understand is that universities are this funny combination of free speech and academic freedom. We're supposed to foster speech, and that means dumb speech. That means sometimes hostile speech. Right? You know that drill. And and then the president denounced him, same president, the one I didn't really like, the one who denounced me. And she said this is only the second time I've denounced something a faculty member said. I go, yeah. I was the first. Hate to brag, but we're Speaker 0: pretty confident this show is the most vehemently pro dog podcast you're ever gonna see. We can take or leave some people, but dogs are non negotiable. They are the best. They really are our best friends. And so for that reason, we're thrilled to have a new partner called Dutch Pet. It's the fastest growing pet telehealth service. 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Your dogs, your cats, and your wallet will thank you. What about the the then provost, now the president, who was your friend who denounced you? Did that affect your friendship? Speaker 1: No. Not a bit. They were just trying to put out a fire, and I was ready for the fire to be put out. What helped is several trustees wandered in the president's office and said, don't even think about doing something stupid here. So I had one day I put out a tweet talking about how lovely Cornell is. Cornell is a phenomenal institution, so so my loyalty to Cornell was painting my vision, but Cornell is not like the other Ivies. It's not Harvard, it's not Princeton. It is in the middle of this idyllic setting with we have 200 gorges. The people at Cornell are self selected. They're the ones who want to live here, right? If there was a college in in in your neighborhood, it would be filled with people who love the outdoors. It would be filled with people who like this way of life. Right? Cornell has that. And so and by the way, it's ranked number one in a critical category. It has more top 10 ranked departments than any school in the country. And and and that's because we have so many different things going on here. So it's it's a very special place. Speaker 0: So the the letter denouncing you was really just kabuki. I mean, was Speaker 1: It was kabuki. Yeah. It was it was tried to just put out the fire, it did. And and it I I paid a price. I lost a consulting gig at Pfizer because of it, because I was now a Nazi, you know, Speaker 0: and and Wait. Pfizer didn't stand by you? Speaker 1: I had consult I had consult there for twenty years, and they were going to Zoom consulting. And Pfizer doesn't need a controversial consultant either. So they just cleared the deck as well. So I don't hold it again. I hold against what I hold against Pfizer is the vaccine. I don't hold the guys I consulted with at Pfizer were great guys And Pfizer, they were trying to get their job done right, stuff like that. Speaker 0: Why do you, as an organic chemist, why do you hold the vaccine against them? Speaker 1: Because I think it killed a lot of people, and they knew it. I read the I I so I started writing about COVID right away. You can imagine, right, as scientists. I started networking. I started trying to figure it out. I'm in a group called Doctors for COVID Ethics for four years where we had every major anti vaxxer on the planet go through this. Speaker 0: Wait. So you're a consultant to Pfizer. You're a pretty famous, probably one of the most famous organic chemists in the country. So if you say the Pfizer COVID vaccine killed a lot of people, it can't be dismissed as crank talk. Speaker 1: Well, it could be because I'm not a vaccine expert. I'm an organic chemist. So I have certain technical skills that probably helped me borrow, and it's the genetics major as an undergrad that helps me. I don't use the biochem or the genetics, but it allows me to sort of read stuff. Speaker 0: But you think it killed a lot of people? Speaker 1: Well, the Pfizer papers, which are papers written about the clinical trials in the VAERS database, show huge number of of problems. Right? And and so our our the doctor for COVID ethics, we had every famous anti vaxxer. One of the first ones I I went to, it was Bobby Kennedy, we had you you name it. You name an anti vaxxer. You name the Malones, the Ryan Coles, the Bryan Artis's, the the you you can go on and on and on. They all went through this this group, and and we talked about things. Three or four years became the Speaker 0: Is anyone keeping track of how many Americans were killed by it? Speaker 1: Well, it's very hard because, first of all, every flu death got absorbed into the COVID stats. So flu disappeared, which can't be true. And if it did because we're locked down, then how'd we all get COVID? Right? So there's now studies coming out from other countries because we have too many too many people who will look very bad when this data comes out. But the Japanese, for example, have come out and said some very strong things about what didn't happen. The head of the Japanese medical system, I think, came out and said that you could correlate the number of deaths with the number of shots. Right. And so now that the gag order has been released, scientific studies are making it into the literature and there's already thousands. It's got to be one Speaker 0: of the great man made disasters of our lifetimes. Speaker 1: The lockdown too. I think you mentioned or someone did in one of your podcasts about the travesty, maybe it was Walter, about the travesty of locking down. You show me you you tell me how old a kid is and I can tell you what subjects he does not or she does not know. So if you were studying trigonometry the year that everything's locked down, you don't know trigonometry at all. We pretended to teach them, they pretended to learn, nothing happened. Speaker 0: And do you see that now? Speaker 1: Well, you could see it going through the system. So, for example, our first year grads who were taking organic chemistry went during lockdown, when they showed up, they were very weak in organic chemistry. Yeah, You can see it. So think of the poor kid who's five years old trying to learn how to read and write and everything through a mask. Right? That that that and and there's imprinting periods. Right? There's periods where you learn to read and write or or you're kind of in trouble. And so we we it was disastrous. It was absurd. And the whole thing was done by Fauci. But how could and our Zoom group, by way, had had Scott Atlas. And so I asked Scott. I said, Scott, was it malicious? Fauci and Birx? Did what they do as malicious? And I think it was. I mean, I think there's evil forces behind those two, but he took a different tactic. He said, you cannot fathom how stupid those two are. That was his answer. He said, Fauci never gave a scientific argument. Never. And he said, one day this is astonishing. Said, one day, this is all recorded, so I'm not, you know, talking behind his back. This is there is a recording on the Internet with us. He says one day he walks in with a scientific paper that Atlas had read, and so he's thinking, woah, Fauci is actually gonna say something scientific. Fauci went to say encephalomyelitis. Now, if you work at the seven eleven, you might stumble on that one, but if you're head of the entire health organization, you shouldn't. And he said he boxed it so bad it was unintelligible, and Atlas said, come again? What did you just say? And Fauci wouldn't repeat it. He said Birx was yanking shit off the Internet, making pie charts, having not a clue what it meant. Speaker 0: Not a clue. That's terrifying. Speaker 1: Now but you've heard all that Chris from Atlas, though, he didn't speak up, I don't think. Fauci. Atlas. I think he sat there. Speaker 0: Can I ask you to back up just a moment, though? So you're describing now incompetence, but you alluded earlier to malice. What do you think the dark forces behind Birx and Fauci were? Speaker 1: Well, I think they first of all, they love the fact we're talking about whether it came out of a lab in Wuhan because that way we're debating whether to blame the Chinese or not, right, when in fact I think it came out of a lab probably in North Carolina. A number of guys have tracked both the the disease and and the vaccine back years before it showed up on our dinner plate. I I think low level of malice would be Wait. You think it came out of Speaker 0: a lab in North Carolina? Speaker 1: Yeah. Ralph Barack. Yeah. He you can follow a guy named David Martin has followed the patent trail, and an artificial organism can be patented, not a natural one. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And this you can follow the patent trail on COVID, and and and you can follow vaccine patent trail. Again, it's watch it get moved around, move from point a to point b. Speaker 0: If it was created in North Carolina, how did it get to Wuhan, and what Because was Speaker 1: we were funding we were funding research in Wuhan because we were not allowed to do game of gain of Sorry. I keep capping the table. Speaker 0: Oh, it's alright. This is a topic that deserves some table topping. Speaker 1: I I I've done podcasts where I have headphones, and I have four three Boston terriers and four, and they snore. I can't hear them because my headphones are noise dampening. And then I listen to podcast and hear this humongous amount of snoring behind me, so I'm aware of background noise. Speaker 0: You didn't bring the terriers this morning. Speaker 1: I didn't bring the terriers, no. Speaker 0: So, but you I just wanna flush this out a bit. You think it was created or begun in North Carolina, then brought to Wuhan for? Speaker 1: To be elaborated, to be studied, to be so I think we took everything offshore because it got gain of function got banned in The US. But I don't think we banned it. There were something like 36 bio bioweapons labs in Ukraine Yeah. Of US origin. Yes. I So why is Ukraine perfect? Ukraine's perfect. To run a bioweapons lab, you need first world infrastructure. Yep. And third world people to test shit on. Ukraine's pretty much got that, right? Because Fauci, for example, in The United States when he had to do clinical trials, when one of his lower rank they'd go to they'd go to foster care. They would do clinical trials on foster children. What? Yeah, you got to read Kennedy's book. Yeah, he did an estimate. They used an estimate of 13,000, 14,000 foster kids to do clinical trials. They said the kids would figure out they're getting sick and they wouldn't wanna take the meds. Speaker 0: That's so that's like not Speaker 1: So I think five g's been been doing damage to people and killing people for many, many years. Yeah. Speaker 0: So we made a pledge only to advertise products that we would use or do use, and here's one that I personally used this morning. It's Liberty Safe. There's a huge one in my garage. It is the company that protects your valuables. High end safe lines represent the pinnacle of American made. They're made here in The US, pinnacle of American made security and craftsmanship. They're more than just safes. They are a safeguard. They've got seven gauge thick American steel, and they're beautiful. Any kind of pink color you want, polished hardware. We have one. They're really good looking. They do not detract from a room. They enhance a room. I keep my father's shotguns and all kinds of other things in there. You can keep jewelry, money, anything else that you wanna keep safe. When you put your belongings in a Liberty Safe, you can just relax. Safes come equipped with motion activated lighting, drawers for storage, locking bars, dehumidifiers, and up to one hundred and fifty minutes of certified fire resistance. You can customize them any way you want. They are the best. We highly recommend them. Visit libertysafe.com to find a deal or learn about how you can protect what matters most to you. Demand the best. Liberty safe. But to do clinical trials on foster kids, I thought after the Second World War when both the Japanese and the Germans were doing things like that Nuremberg Code? Well, exactly. It was codified there, but in for scientists, but for the rest of the world and certainly American culture, we were taught that testing potentially dangerous drugs on people without their full consent or on the weakest among us or, you know, euthanizing mental patients, whatever, all that was bad. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: I thought that was one of the big lessons of the second world war. Speaker 1: Well, as we both know, there are no rules. Speaker 0: Well, that's boy, is that the truth? Speaker 1: There are no rules. Right? There are none. There are rules for us, you and me, but there are subjects for which people could be thrown in prison. You know, a great example would be Diddy. So what happened with Diddy? I think what happened with Diddy is Diddy had a bunch of very incriminating tapes. I think, you know, Epstein, light, and and I think they arrested him to round it all up all the day, and I think they did it to get all the data away from Diddy because he was being sued in civil court. And the guilty party said, we gotta get it out of there before the civil court gets it. And so they arrest Diddy. What they just convict him of? Nothing. They could have put him away for twenty years based on what he did to Justin Bieber. Right? They didn't even get him on any of that. So it's a classic it's a classic case. I I know I sound like a nutcase, but, yeah, you've had a lot of nutcases on your shows. Speaker 0: I had a gun. Speaker 1: My brother is trying to dial me back. His day, they're gonna think you're a nutcase if you talk about all the things you think about, and I go, well, I think that ship has sailed. You know, as I said to Speaker 0: Well, I thought that was the whole point of academic research was the, you know, the predicate for it, the basis of it, is free thinking. Speaker 1: Well, but according to Douglas Murray, I'm not supposed to talk about it unless I'm an expert. Speaker 0: Well, you are a demonstrable expert in your area. I mean Speaker 1: Which is not Diddy. It's Speaker 0: not Diddy. You're not a tenured professor of Diddy studies at Cornell? We could have it. Speaker 1: You know, we do have subjects. Speaker 0: And So you think the point of arresting Diddy was to shut down inquiry into what Diddy was doing? Speaker 1: Get the data, right? Speaker 0: Well, that's clearly the point of the first Jeffrey Epstein arrest. Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's laptop. Speaker 0: Tell me your view of Hunter Biden's laptop. Well, Speaker 1: Sydney what's her name? Lawyer. Come on. Sydney Powell. Yep. Elite lawyer, now down a few notches because she worked for Trump and that always gets you in trouble. Yep. Said that if Hunter Biden's laptop were ever released no, if Anthony Weiner's laptop were ever released, the government would fall. Weiner's laptop had kill switches in it. I mean, that that that it it was filled with crap that wasn't supposed to be there. We never get to see it. Supposedly, nine cops watched the videos on on on Weiner's laptop. They had to keep leaving the room because they couldn't stand what they were seeing, and all nine are now dead. And there's names and faces and deadness. Right? They're they're real people. Now you can say, well, maybe they died for other reason. I go, but it's still nine cops. And, you know, it's like the five cops who died after January 6. Right? Four of them were suicides. Out of according to AI, there were about 80 cops really in the thick of things. Four of them died from suicide. I don't need any more information to wonder what the hell is going on there. That's one of those stand alone observations where I go, that's not right. The math of that doesn't work for me. I've got pictures of Ukrainian see, I'm going off topic. I've got pictures of you known Ukrainian operatives with with you're not gonna believe this with the QAnon shaman guy. I think I have the horns in January 6. At January 6. What is that all about? I've got videos Speaker 0: of That sounds totally normal. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I've got videos Speaker 0: It's a national guard a 100 yards away not doing anything. Totally normal. Speaker 1: Videos of John Sullivan. Right? The guy who was supposedly Antifa, but Antifa said, no. He's a fed. Don't talk to him, who then filmed Ashley Babbitt getting shot. This guy's getting around. What's your image of an Antifa person? Lost soul, tattoos everywhere, right? No meaning in life. Right? Yeah. And no no path forward, really. I mean, these are nighs. Speaker 0: These are society's right. Speaker 1: If they're real, that is. If they're Speaker 0: legit real. But, I mean, if Speaker 1: you look at the mugshots Speaker 0: of Antifa arrest or the people who came to my house, the Antifa there, I mean, these are, you know, obviously, I disagree. They threaten my family. I don't like them and all that, but you also feel like these are, like, one step above homeless. Like, these are Right. Losers. Speaker 1: Right. And and so if he's on Tifa, it's really odd that he was a nationally ranked cyclist. What I know about nationally ranked anythings is their lives have purpose. Now there's a mugshot you did you follow this Patriot Front story? I'm really this this is now the helmet's on, the leash to the jungle gym is on. The Patriot Front guys, those guys who'd stomp around looking like neo Nazis who also were buff and had no pot bellies and covered their faces, get arrested and they're handcuffed with their backpacks still on and their their megaphone still over their shoulders. And and and and then I saw mugshots of them. Not a single tattoo. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: No tattoos. These are neo Nazis. Not a single tattoo. Speaker 0: They didn't have like waffen SS lightning No. Bolts on their Speaker 1: Swastikos. You know? Right? So so so we are in this big Walter Kernish. We're in this made for the Internet plot. Walter is great in his description of the I've been tracking the Manjoni story. It's not the right story. There's something wrong. And I Walter laid it out. Now what Walter didn't say is who's behind him. Speaker 0: That's obviously the question. I mean, you can look at all of these different stories, particularly the acts of violence, which are because they are acts of violence are, you know, examined much more closely than any other kind of act. And it, like, doesn't it doesn't make any sense. I mean, the the shooting of Trump a year ago in Butler, Pennsylvania is Speaker 1: just so sense. Everything do you know what I just read the other day? The guy who shot Thomas Crooks right. There were bullets flying all over that place, but it was a catastrophically poorly set up defense of Trump. But the guy who shot Thomas Crooks was the same guy who organized the protection of Trump. And they said, Oh, you know, he didn't get convicted of anything, and other guys didn't. Go, Well, so the guy who was in charge of making sure that after the assassination was done, he popped the assassin, is somehow not getting prosecuted. Why am I not shocked? Speaker 0: So you're saying he was the Jack Ruby figure here? Speaker 1: He was the Jack Ruby figure. Yes. So so what was odd about that story? Well, first of all, all the news agencies were there. This was a totally irrelevant rally in the an irrelevant place, Butler, Pennsylvania, and there's a stranger story there. And again, I I I just pick up these shards and sometimes they fit together into a story and sometimes it's just put it in your head, keep it there until you get more detail. There's a guy sitting behind Trump named Joseph Fusca. Fusca is his last name. I've seen him before many times. He was by the QAnon guys, which are a bunch of whack jobs, said to be you're not gonna believe it. Said to be John F. Kennedy junior waiting to come back and save the world, and I'm going, oh, you guys have lost your minds finally. You've really gone. It doesn't matter that that's a total crock. Fusca is this guy, and they say now his name is Fusca and whatever, you know, blah blah blah blah blah, But but he's one of supposedly JFK Jr. In disguise. Fusca was there sitting right behind Trump. I go, of all the rallies, there he is. Who is he? I don't know. And what's really interesting is Trump gets shot, everyone's reacting and Fusca's not. And then there's two pieces Speaker 0: of footage. You say you've seen him before, you've seen him in photographs before? Speaker 1: Oh, he had been talked about. I I've dug down some deep rabbit holes and find this guy. So one of the things you discover, you know this as well as anyone, you you think you're going down a rabbit hole and you discover Gobekli Tepe. You get down the rabbit hole and you go, this thing that this there's a there's an entire ecosystem down here that people don't know exists. Once once you it's like it's like once you you you ask, how did Kennedy get killed? And you go, oh, boy, you know, that that's troubling. Right? And then Building 7, which you talked with Ron Johnson, who, by the way, was in our Doc Sum group. Right? What I'm talking we had everyone. We had everyone. Once you got on one or two of these and you go, I I I can't trust anything. And I'm I work in a field where you're supposed to be able to get the facts and say, now here's an odd story. A friend of mine's binding all my annual reviews that I write. I write one blog a year. I've been thinking about why. Speaker 0: And I Can can you just pause and describe what that is? That that's really the reason I wanted to talk to you was because your interview is, you know, well known among people who are paying attention. What is it, and why do you do it? So the people trying to wreck our civilization want you to be passive. They want you weak so they can control you. Weakness is their goal. No. Thanks. Our friends at Beam, a proud American company, understand that our country can only be great if its people are strong. And that's why they've created a new creatine product to help listeners like you stay mentally sharp and physically fit. People like to mock creatine. 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Speaker 1: So stopped paying 100% attention to chemistry and started on the side looking at markets when I became a boomer with some wealth, and I started paying and I became I was a tech bull. And then by '98, I realized the markets were in trouble. I'd read enough books, read enough blogs, read enough articles, and and so and then that naturally led me to politics because if you don't understand politics, you don't understand economics. And in around o seven, I wrote a I used to on this chat board I was at, I'd write a summary at the end of the year, and part of it was to to to make sure that my fairly extreme views weren't costing me serious pain and suffering. And and and instead of getting 200 clicks because this group is about 200 of us talking, It went to, like, 4,000. I go, what happened? And he said, oh, I put it on my blog. Someone told me that. So so in o nine, I I decided to do it seriously. I thirty years of investing. So I wrote up this this thing. I said, thirty years of investing from from the cheap seats was the title. And it went wild, actually. And part of it was because because I'd been highly successful as a rank amateur through the nineties as a tech bull. I made 700% on WorldCom and then got out. Right? I made 700% on Dell Warner Lambert. I I thought I was a genius. And and so I had years where I made over a 100% without leverage. And and and and then I got out and I got out due to Y two k, which turns out to be a grift. Yeah. It took me decades to figure that out. I thought I just blew it. But no, a Silicon Valley selling software and hardware, and I can make that stuff every month, but it's not worth it. And then and then so so I started paying attention to politics, and then I just went deeper and deeper down rabbit holes. See I know I'm reading about Putin in 2012, trying to understand what's going on there and stuff like that. So so I just kind of naturally got on rabbit holes. Now, you can't market a blog worse than writing one a year, right? That's about as bad as you get, and I don't charge for it. So there's that. And then I realized, though, the reason it works for me is if I wrote a blog once a week, most of them would be garbage because imagine how many blogs would have written about how Trump and Elon are best friends. Speaker 0: Right? Right. Speaker 1: And now it seems irrelevant that I'd be writing about how Trump and Elon are enemies, and then a month from now it'll be irrelevant because they'll be best friends again. You're right? And so you could I could not write a weekly blog, and so what I do is is I my writing once a year gives me a long time to think about. So I get the idea and then I sort of watch and go, oh, look at that. That's a puzzle piece right there. So it essentially is book length. 250, 300 pages every fall. Speaker 0: Don't charge for it. Speaker 1: And I don't and I you also can't write it in March. That's not a year in review. So I usually end up with about 700 pages of links and notes. And if I see something we talked before about about using trite metaphors, you know, how we both hate it. But once in a while I'll see a way to insult a person. I'll go, Oh, I'm saving that. Right? Now, the other reason that's really great. Speaker 0: Where do people find it? Speaker 1: It's published at Peak Prosperity, and it's my pinned tweet, so it stays up there all year and then until I publish the next one. And it gives me the chance to collect the information, to ponder what's going on that year, and then and some things become irrelevant, so I don't write about them. Some things are not some things become trite, right? But I think my analysis of the twenty sixteen election, for example, is really good. The prophetic line. I was watching BET. Please don't get me to explain why I'm watching BET and black entertainment today or something, whatever. Television. And some burly black guy is talking about Trump, and he says, forget the messenger. Listen to the message. Listen to that. I'm going, holy moly. Right? Turns out he was the head of the end of of the new Black Panther Party. I go, Trump just got endorsed by the Black Panthers. So I and then I saw Jimmy Brown, the running back, say he will be a president of the people, and and all of a sudden and so I wrote, It might just be a flicker, but I think the black community is moving to the right. And boy was that ahead of its time. And so what I won't do is write about something that I was writing about. Why? Yeah. The other problem I face is that I don't write about stuff I'm an expert. I write about stuff I know nothing. So when I wrote about I've been following Putin, when the Ukraine war came, first thing I noticed, I bet you noticed it too, it wasn't a war. It was a police action, and they weren't killing people. They were moving troops across the border. They were talking to Ukrainians. They were and I kept saying to my wife, this not a war. You see some grandmother going, oh, this is just really terrible, you know, and I'm going, that's not a war. You wanna see a war? Look at Baghdad day one. Right. That's a war. That's what a war looks like. Right? You'd see an explosion from 20 miles away. You wouldn't know what blew up. Right? Like, my wife thought I was nuts. She goes, it's not a war. It's not a war. Well, it became a war because, as you and I both know, NATO wanted a war. And so it morphed from being a police action, which I think Putin was trying to throw a fastball past NATO's chin and saying back off on this And whole NATO and so when I wrote about that, I found about 20 to 40 guys who are trying to get it right, which includes you and includes guys like Max Abramson. Do I know do I have that right? Glenn Greenwald, the guy who died, what's his name, the guy who got killed by the Ukrainian Speaker 0: Gonzalo Lira. Gonzalo Lira. American who was murdered by the Ukrainian government. Speaker 1: And we could have gotten him out with a phone call and we chose not to 100%. Because the narrative was Putin's bad. Ukraine's a bunch of really nice guys, super nice guys since a democracy. What a crock of shit. That was a lie from head to toe. We wanted a war. We still want I have I have intelligence friends too, not like you, but I have them. And and I was talking to him the other day. I think he likes to talk to me because he can talk to me about these subjects. And in his universe, I'm the only guy he can talk to for which he's he doesn't have to worry cause everyone else in his world is connected, everyone else in his world. So I think he liked to have real honest conversations. One day we're on the phone, he says, do you do signal? I go, yeah. So we went to signal, he said someone was listening to us. Speaker 0: Boy. There's a lot of that. Speaker 1: There's a lot of that. Speaker 0: Yeah. I know. Speaker 1: So there's always a narrative. There's always one narrative, and then we're now in an era where you only get to talk about that narrative. You know that. I know that. You and I, we're just mutually. Speaker 0: Yeah. And and the the penalties for straying from the story are You get fired. Are real. Yeah. Totally. I mean, whatever. I there's been no age in human history where telling the truth, the real truth is rewarded. So Speaker 1: don't think that we where should you be first really won me over, you and I agree that when you were young, you were a punk. Fact that you're so proud of the metamorphosis is great. It may have come before this, but where I noticed it was the Las Vegas shootings where is we kinda talked a little bit of breakfast. Here's the funny story. They interviewed that night a guy named Mike Krohnk, and Mike Krohnk tells Speaker 0: The night of the shooting. The night Speaker 1: of the shooting. Speaker 0: That was 2017 maybe? Speaker 1: I can't remember. Yeah. And Mike told this story. He did look very emotional, which I found a little odd. I, by the way, think all the shootings within an error bar are not what they appear to be. I'll take it all the way back to Columbine if you want. But Mike Krohn talks about his friend getting shot three times in the chest from hundreds of yards away, and and later a marksman said, not possible. Too much spray. Sniper would be required to hit a guy three times. And and and the guy was just doing this. Right? And Mike says his friend stuck his fingers in the bullet his own bullet holes to stop the bleeding. I'm going, now you're lying. Why is Mike lying? Right away, red flag. Why is Mike lying? Speaker 0: And who is he, by the way? Speaker 1: Well, that's a great question. So Mike then finishes how they put him on a cart and wheeled him out. Speaker 0: May may I just ask why I'll tell you in Speaker 1: a minute. Speaker 0: Why did you know he was lying when he said his friend put his own fingers in Speaker 1: Because you don't you don't get shot three times in the chest and provide your own health care. Speaker 0: Fair. Fair. Right? We thought this through when we started this podcast a year ago, we decided we're never advertising anything that we or people on our staff don't use, period. We're only partnering with companies that we agree with and endorse actually in our personal lives. So we want to announce a new partnership with a survival company we trust most. Last Country Supply is the name of our collaboration. Last Country Supply. I have a big surplus of survival food from that great company. If you get a bucket of food with a twenty five year shelf life, 2,000 calories a day, potatoes, rice, bread, drinks, you feel a lot better. Let's say there's an EMP attack or civil disturbance and you don't know what could happen in the future, You are prepared, and you are protecting your family with Last Country Supply products. So head to lastcountrysupply.com to shop for our new collection. Bulk up now. There is no scenario where you will regret being prepared. Speaker 1: So then, like YouTube, see it rolls over fifteen seconds, and then it goes to the next YouTube. And we're we're watching Vegas like you watch 09:11. Right? It was was really 500 people. It it is the biggest shooting since probably Gettysburg. Yes. Right? When was the last time you heard a gun antagonist say, remember Vegas? We gotta get rid of guns. Speaker 0: Never. Speaker 1: Never. Right. And you know why. So it rolls to the next interview, and it's Mike Kroc, new network, same guy. He tells the same story. Now he's looking a little more emotional, and his story changes just a little, just a little around the edges. And then it rolls to the next interview and there's Mike Kroc again. And I go, why? You got 22,000 people and why are you interviewing Mike Kroc? And then there were oddities that were showing up like some lady walking through the crowd saying you're all going to die tonight and they wilt, They carted her away and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Weird stuff. And so I tried to figure out who my crank was. He's just some hick from Alaska. Right? He's just some hick from Alaska. After the fact, I looked and just picture him holding an elk by the horns, you know, that he shot. The next day, the the head of the police said there's no way one guy did it. The following day he said one guy did it. Takes a long time to show one guy did it, right? That's that's something you don't know. There's a lot of debris before you figure that out. There's now a documentary called Route 41, so I dug into this. I noticed is you stayed with a story for about two weeks maybe, and you were bringing up and Coulter jumped in, you know, Paddock was making money. How? Playing video poker. That's his that's the way he's making a living. That's like saying I'm a professional crackhead. Speaker 0: And Speaker 1: and then what happens is there was shooting all over the place. There was shooting everywhere. Speaker 0: In the city that day? Speaker 1: In the city that night. And so now there's if you don't believe me, there's this documentary called Route 41, and they got stuff I didn't know about, but they also got stuff that that I so it's kind of an answer key for me to use academic terms. And if you watch Route 41, you will see there were shooters everywhere. There are cop cameras showing shooters. Then remember the guy got shot in the leg up on the floor where Paddock was? Speaker 0: Yes. The the hotel boy. Speaker 1: Or something. Right? Some some illegal with two Social Security numbers. Hello. And and and and then afterwards, reporters tried to get to his house. His house was being protected by by cars. They had no license plates. And and then all of sudden he goes to Mexico and when asked, well, where did he go? They said, well, he was planning a trip to Mexico. So when I wrote it by, I said, oh, by the way, Jesus, when you get back, could you stop in? We've got some questions for you. Right? And then he comes back and he does one interview on Alan DeGeneres. And Alan introduced him saying, and he's there with a handler I had already seen. I'm going, wait a minute, guy, I've been seeing that guy a lot, that other guy. So Jesus is looking at his feet. His name isn't Jesus, but it's something like that. Alan introduced saying, this is the only interview you're gonna do and you gotta get it off your chest. I'm going, oh, shit. Here we go. And then and then and then the handler's doing all the talking. Jesus is looking at his feet. And then we never hear about Jesus again. Probably he's in some shallow grave somewhere because he's too inconvenient. But Speaker 0: I tried to interview him at the time. Speaker 1: Really? Speaker 0: Yes. Couldn't get to him. He drove to Mexico from Vegas. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: Two of them did. Yeah. Following an escort. Yeah. Then he came back, and, yeah, I I tried my hardest. Speaker 1: Alan works for man the company that owns Mandalay. Speaker 0: His handler. Speaker 1: Yeah. No. No. Ellen DeGeneres. Speaker 0: Ellen I'm so sorry. Speaker 1: Yeah. And so so so they're buttoning it down. Now what you see from Route 41 video is there were just an enormous amount of chaos. There's enormous number numbers of shooters. Even that night, were seeing videos from cab drivers saying they're shooting over here, they're shooting over there. Was and and and there would be some chaos, but there's way too much. There's guys who took audios and said, here's here. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. You hear that that that that that that. So you could hear multiple guns, the whole thing. So then what happened? Mike Krohnck. I start reading trauma surgeons saying there's something wrong with the story. You know, if you get hit with, you know, what was it, AR 15 or something? Speaker 0: You And a three zero eight. Gonna you're gonna die Speaker 1: out there. You're gonna bleed out right there. Even if it doesn't hit a major artery, just gonna turn your leg to jello. Speaker 0: Breathe chest wounds from a rifle? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so what would he look like? And so then I saw an interview of a of a young woman and she's sitting there in a chair in the hospital and they're interviewing her. I'm going, you look pretty perky. And and and then Mike Kroc with a news crew goes in and interviews his friend. Now, first and foremost, know HIPAA says you ain't bringing a news crew into a hospital room. Second, we know three shots of the chest he'd be in the ICU. The only way you know he's alive is that there'd be a beeping on the screen and he'd have hoses coming out of every orifice and he would look dead. And so they take the news crew and they interview his friend. He's got a nasal cannula. A nasal cannula. So I'm sitting there thinking, oh, so you're you're talking with three holes in your chest. What are you sticking your fingers so the air doesn't come flying out of your chest holes? Right? And then I notice the screen's not even plugged in. Now what is Mike Cronk now? He's a state senator from Alaska. In Alaska. I think he's a state level state senator. What? Yeah. Who's the chief of police? He became governor of Nevada or something. Right? So so, again, so there's a guy named John Cullen who did an analysis of the shooting, and his conclusion Speaker 0: A relative? Speaker 1: A relative? Yeah. No. No. No. No. No. This is all different. John worked for Oracle. He's some on the spectrum code head. He also analyzed the Butler shooting, the audios of the Butler shooting. Speaker 0: He's an on the spectrum code head. Speaker 1: He's on the spectrum code head. He he he sort of bears down and grabs on something a little too firmly, I think, but but but he brings Speaker 0: his on the spectrum code heads. Speaker 1: Yeah. I know. And he there was pretty good evidence that a lot of the shooting was coming from helicopters behind the Mandalay, and he tracked the transponders turning on and off behind the Mandalay. The story was that Mohammed bin Salman was on the Top Floor. Speaker 0: The crown crown prince of ruler Saudi Arabia. Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. A guy who lots of people would like to kill. And his theory is is that the Saudis tried to flush him out of there, and on the way out, they would camp him. Now they blew it. If that's the story, they blew it. I think the helicopter idea is not bad. But I I did a couple podcasts with John, and I said, John, but what about all the shooting on the ground? And John was kinda dismissive. I go, you can't dismiss it. You can't let that stuff go. Your models gotta include that. But it occurred a year later, Mohammed remember when Khashoggi got killed? What was his name? Jamal Khashoggi. Now a non Khashoggi is one the most famous CIA guys on the planet. Jamal Khashoggi is one who got diced up and fed to the camels. Yeah. Now he's a New York Times reporter. I think he was also CIA. Speaker 0: Washington Post columnist. Yeah. And he was killed in Speaker 1: In the embassy. In Speaker 0: Istanbul, I believe. Speaker 1: Okay. Supposedly, on the anniversary of the Vegas shootings, supposedly Mohammed bin Salman had a party, locked the doors, and showed a video of him getting sliced up and said to the royal sitting in the room, don't even think about it. Now when I wrote about Khashoggi, everyone was having a cow over Khashoggi, right, when he got killed. I'm going, we're killing tens of thousands of Yemenis. We killed 5,000,000 people in The Middle East directly and indirectly due to our post nine eleven responses. Yes. Right? And I called them ODK, one dead Khashoggi. I said, it is insane to worry about one dead guy in a region of the world where people die for no reason all the time. Speaker 0: Who was at war with this his own government, the Saudi government? I mean, I'm, you know, I'm obviously not for vivisecting people, but I also think, like, they're yeah. There there's a scale of of evil, and starving kids is worse than what happened at Khashoggi. I agree with you. Speaker 1: Right. So so you were the only mainstream guy who I watched steadily on the story, staying with the Vegas shootings, noting that there's something wrong. Speaker 0: We got very hassled by law enforcement. Speaker 1: I'm Speaker 0: sure you did. Was you know, I worked at Fox News, obviously, at the time, and big supporters of law enforcement. I've always been a big supporter of law enforcement. We've never gotten hassled anywhere. Just the opposite. Oh, you work for Fox News. Oh my gosh. Of course. Speaker 1: Slow down. Official law enforcement Speaker 0: is what got you. Man. I mean, they blocked our camera position. Oh, yeah. They were totally opposed to us doing that. I've never had that experience. Speaker 1: So so let's stand the shootings just briefly. Uvalde. There's problems all over that shooting. Remember that shooting in Texas where the guy got Speaker 0: in Knew the knew the mayor. Speaker 1: Yes. There's problems all over the place because, first of all, there's something like 800 law enforcement guys within reach of the damn thing, and that 's a ton of, like, 5,000 people. And and then they didn't go in for seventy eight minutes or something. Go remember. Excuse me. You show me 10 cops, probably eight of them have kids. By all I'm right now, I'm reading a book called The Moral Animal. It's about human behavior. Yep. And and out of those eight, eight would have gone in and said, I don't care what you say. I'm going in. Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: You you give me a soccer mom. She's going in. Right? 100%. And then there was the mom who did go in, and her story was incoherent. Her story she came out and she said this and then she said this, and it was not consistent. I'm going, that's just a narrative thrown on top of it. Speaker 0: So what are we looking at here? So K FAB. What does that mean? Speaker 1: K FAB is something Eric Weinstein wrote about. He was asked to write an essay with a bunch of other scholarly types, and he said that politics was kayfabe, it was professional wrestling, and there's all these layers, there's all these tricks, it's way more sophisticated than people think, The way you get the way you engage the audience and you have some reality and some non reality and things change, and he he talked about politics being kayfabe. I I don't think anything you see can be interpreted literally and at face value. Now, what would Speaker 0: be the purpose, however? Well, Speaker 1: as I was telling you, a friend's binding all my annual reviews, and I will probably make a thousand dollars off this. I mean, is not getting rich. I'm paid probably 0.001¢ per hour pay for this task. I had to go back I've been proofing the drafts from previous years. And what I noticed about twenty thirteen, fourteen, fifteen is something's changed. And what's changed is you could get facts, and and you felt like you were getting and the stories would break, and they would stay that way, and and they wouldn't be shifting around. And you could say, okay. Here's what happened in here here, and this piece fits in here. And now you can't. Now it's like we talked about using trig metaphors. Here's one, but I really like it. It's like when your GPS starts randomly rerouting you and our GPS just keeps ramming, rerouting, rerouting, I go, I'm not taking that right turn now, you know, so you just boot the GPS, you break out your gasketeer and you figure out where And you're so we our GPS is rerouting us constantly. And and one of your guests, Mike Benz, who I occasionally chat with briefly, who's very impressive, and as as I've said, I don't know everything about him, and I don't mean just in a casual way, I think he's I think there's a complex story there, but right now he's saying the right stuff. He gave a talk one day where he talked about how around 2013 the so called deep state, which is a term I've tried to figure out where it came from, and I think the guy who gets the most credit is kind of Peter Dale Scott who wrote about drug trafficking, Berkeley professor, he called it deep politics, but I think it predates that, but that's where I get it from. He said the deep state realized they were losing control of the narrative. They had underestimated the Internet and social media. Exactly. And as a consequence, they had to get a hold of it completely. And so then this is where we're at. Now we thought Trump was going to save us. We thought Elon was going to save us. My Twitter feed is a dumpster fire. So instead of taking away data, they provide excess noise. So now so now instead of trying to suppress the signal, you just increase the noise. Speaker 0: I think that's very deep, and I think it points to the what's happening. I would think that's clearly true. Speaker 1: So what is the fact? That was the title last year's write up. What is the fact? Speaker 0: Yeah. It's it's impossible. You can't actually control the and you can't restrict the flow of information across the Internet. You debris out there. Speaker 1: Yeah. Right. So it's just like it's a like the the the pilots who who throw the debris out the back of the plane so that the guided missiles don't know what to Speaker 0: Of course. Exactly. Right. Right. Speaker 1: And and they also throw out debris so that so that then they can prove that it's not true so you feel like an idiot. Speaker 0: QAnon was clearly that. QAnon. Yeah. QAnon. What was QAnon? I don't know. I don't either. Speaker 1: I I avoid you know, I'd be listening to something and it would have useful information and all of a sudden then it would show the whole and here's Trump and his generals are gonna save the world. Speaker 0: No. Agree. Speaker 1: For Christ's sake. Speaker 0: But the interesting I never knew anything about QAnon. I never paid any attention at all. I have a good friend who I really admire, is much smarter than I am, who, because he is smarter than I am, took like a year to look into QAnon. What'd he get? I don't fully understand it, but here's what I understand is that, you know, some of the predictions of QAnon came true. I mean, it's a sophisticated thing. It's not just Speaker 1: Oh, I think it's a bunch of ex spooks. For sure. Speaker 0: It's not a, you know, bunch of college kids on No. 4chan or whatever they claim it was. Speaker 1: These are guys who are probably pissed that the system went bad. Speaker 0: It would the point of it and it's unclear, you know, who's behind it. I have some theories, but people I know actually, but but I don't know if they're true. But what I what is obvious to me is that it was it's a control mechanism. Mhmm. Trying to siphon off some of that energy and move it in a Speaker 1: Siphoning off the energy. Speaker 0: That's right. Less dangerous direction. Speaker 1: Right. Focus on Wuhan. Right? Focus on the lab in Wuhan. That's siphoning. It's all American politics. Speaker 0: Like, have a race war. Leave us alone as we loot your country. Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. It's if there's a meme out there, there's a joke where the king and his his right hand man, his chief of staff are looking at the angry townspeople. Some have pitchforks and some have torches, and the king says, don't you have to worry. You just convince the guys with the pitchforks or the enemies of the guys with the torches. Speaker 0: So you said that a couple times. Focus on Wuhan. I've I've fallen for that for that squirrel squirrel Wuhan thing. Speaker 1: Squirrel. Why A blind nut finds a squirrel. Speaker 0: That's funny. That's a rule. I'm stealing that. I'm sorry. Just making making a note. Speaker 1: That's an original. I never know if I heard it and forgot where I got it, but that Speaker 0: that's an original. It's the squirrel. What is that distracting you? Speaker 1: I think it is great. You put me in an asylum overnight. In an asylum overnight? Yeah. Yeah. My my my hotel's a former asylum. Is it really? Yeah. You didn't ask? No. Oh, yeah. It's a former asylum. I said, you finally got it right. Well, I Speaker 0: think there's there's wisdom here. Speaker 1: There is wisdom here. Speaker 0: What are they distracting us from by having us focus on Wuhan? Speaker 1: Well, huge amounts of grift. You had you interviewed Katherine Austin Fitz. Speaker 0: Yes. I've been blessed. A smart woman. Speaker 1: So I come out of nowhere. Have no credentials beyond those that I can create. Right? And I think one of the ways you created is by being truthful. Yes. And I know truth is everything to you. Speaker 0: I try to make it that. Speaker 1: And actually in this book, The Moral Animal, they say the reason we self delude is so that you can be truthful and deceive your opponent. That's what self delusion is. Speaker 0: Yes. And and I practiced a lot Speaker 1: of that. I've been adopted by some people who didn't have to adopt me. And so, for example, I'm tied with Steve Hanke, who's a famous economist, and and Catherine has been very supportive, and and and there's several dozen who who somehow have decided that that I'm worth their time and and and help me, And and so they're they're useful to chat with. They're useful to but but Catherine's story and a lot of people think Catherine's nuts. Right? But but she talks about the huge amount of resources that have been siphoned off and the tens of trillions of dollars of resources that have been I Speaker 0: know Katherine Austin Fitts you can disagree with her. She's not nuts. That's not true. Speaker 1: She's not what? Nuts. Oh, no. I don't think she is Speaker 0: nuts. No. That's right. No. No. A No. Grounded person. Speaker 1: Could have things wrong, but And that's totally I had a friend, another friend who I think is phenomenal, tell me that she's nuts and don't don't don't get near her. And I said, no. I don't think so. And and but we all can get sucked down into the rabbit hole to the point you can get out too. There are days where I wish, why don't you just go play golf? Yeah. Or yeah. Right now I'm on a my house is hanging off a 100 foot cliff looking west over Keuga Lake. I can literally throw rotten fruit off my deck and drop it down into the drink from I'll show you afterwards. I'll show you photos. It's the view is such that if there are places in the country where the view would cost $20,000,000, not in Ithaca, of course. And and and if people come and visit, they should. It's beautiful. I can't remember why I said that. That's probably You're saying Speaker 0: that people dismiss, you know, the the the few who are just committed to pursuing truth no matter what as crazy, and you gave Katharine Stott and Fitz as an example, and but you said you can actually go crazy Oh, yeah. Yeah. By looking too carefully into what actually happened. Speaker 1: Turns out broke the small New York State smallmouth bass record about three years ago, broke the New York State largemouth bass record last year, and I used to fish all the time when I was a kid, I haven't fished it. What's wrong with this picture? Well, if Speaker 0: you got smallmouth bass there, I think you need to fish it on a fly rod. I know. It'll totally change your life. Speaker 1: It's not a fly rod. It's a deep lake. It it's a Speaker 0: But she can catch them on the surface with a popper. And if you do, if you catch a sizable smallmouth on a popper on a fly rod, you know, it Speaker 1: I'm a 18 foot deep shoal guy. Sinking line. But but so, you know, my wife thought that I had fish removed from my thumbs because she never saw a picture of me that didn't have a fish hanging off my my hand, but I haven't fished it. Speaker 0: Because you're absorbed in trying to figure out what's happening. Speaker 1: Raising kids. I'm absorbed in other things. My wife has issues I gotta help her with, and and I I have this fear of buying a boat. Speaker 0: But you as someone who has taken, you know, ample intellectual energy and intelligence and focused it on trying to figure out what are we watching, which I think is like a fair way to describe what you're doing, like, what is this? What's the truth of it? Has that been worth doing? Speaker 1: That's the question. That is the question. And and there was a time where I thought if I could get to the truth, then then that would help in some way, but now it's not as clear. Speaker 0: Tell me what Well, Speaker 1: you know, now first of all, what is the truth? Right? The truth is now becoming very ambiguous. Last year, I wrote about the history of World War two. I did a mini Daryl Cooper. Yes. And it started when I read a book by Diana West, who would be good if you interviewed her. And it was it's this all revisionist history of World War two and you go, well, why would you wanna read that? Well, it turns out I think the story we got about World War two is all wrong. Speaker 0: I think that's right. Speaker 1: And and then I read about FDR, and FDR's right hand man was a Soviet spy. Speaker 0: Certainly was. Right? And and therefore Confirmed. Speaker 1: We should have been. One can make the argument we should have sided with Hitler and fought Stalin. Patton said that, so and and maybe there wouldn't have been a holocaust. Right? You know, there's a but but the the but Stalin was awful by any metric, and we we we weren't his ally. The story is that there were a few missing American soldiers at the end of World War two in Russian territory. Knew. 15 to 20,000 were missing, and we left them there. And then you read about Pearl Harbor. We all sort of know the Pearl Harbor stories, not what we're told, but I dug into that and you find out the pro we knew to the morning that Pearl Harbor was Stalin going get was going to be attacked. He wanted us to take the Japanese office flank and FDR's right hand man was okay with that because he was a Soviet spy, right? Then I read about FDR and the Great Depression, find out that every single penny he spent trying to help forgot Amity Schleys, the forgotten man, was spent to buy votes every last penny. He was a sociopath, and every the only thing he could do is lie. He was a compulsive liar. His his inner circle had to constantly cover for his lying, and and and and and the only thing he's used for now is every time you want to grow government, you cite FDR. And and so so I've read a half a dozen books that sort of went at these different angles and wrote about it. So I start out knowing nothing and then I write about it and I try to write to learn, which is the most terrifying part of AI by the way. If you take out the writing, you take out you take out the thought. Completely agree. The other thing that scares me about it, boy, they're a squirrel. AI's gonna make this system very unforgivingly brittle. I'm I'm not worried as much about the authoritarian slant that Elon occasionally talks about, which might be just to fake us out. Who knows? I am worried that we're gonna reach a point where, you know, when everything everything computer does is binary. So you go to the grocery store, you slip your credit card in, it says you're good to go or didn't work. Swipe it again. Didn't work. Sorry. You're out of here. Right? They debank people. This is a big problem. What happens when everything is so AI'd up that that that there's no person anywhere with an earshot who can help you at all. No one who can say, okay. Let me let me get this for you. Speaker 0: Right. There's been a misunderstanding or there's There Speaker 1: yeah. Speaker 0: I had a few other nuance required. Speaker 1: Happened on the other day on a credit card where I was talking to a lady, and it kept sending me in these loops, and she finally straightened out. But what happens when the code is being written by computers so there's no human who understands the code? So the system will be very brittle, be very unforgiving. Forget about whether it's used nefariously. Forget about whether someone uses it as an authoritarian tool, which is very real possibility, and I worry about that a lot. Just the fact that no one will know who's driving the cab ever on anything. And and also now you're taking out the intellectual part. So when I write, when you write, when I write a scientific paper, the project's not done until I've written it because that's where you you you lay it out. And if you can't put it on paper coherently with no internal contradictions, you're not done. Speaker 0: You're not done understanding it. Speaker 1: You're not done understanding it. The writing is understanding. Speaker 0: I so I think people who don't write for a living or aren't forced to write regularly don't understand this concept is a hard one, but it's through writing, or I would also say speaking, you know, public speaking, that putting concepts into words makes the concepts intelligible to the person who's articulating them. Like, you don't really understand something until you've been forced to write about it. Speaker 1: It's like a comedy shop. You go you know, the the great comedians will go down to the cheapo comedy shops to practice, to figure out what works and what doesn't work. Right? And then they go on Johnny Carson. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 1: And so so you write away writing, Speaker 0: there's no thinking. Right. So I read about Maui, the fires. Speaker 1: I wrote about that. Very clearly a land grab. You may remember how many kids died? No. Do you remember the USA article said 750 kids are missing? Yep. Right? When a kid's missing after something like that, they're dead. But they're not missing. They're dead. Maybe a couple found their way. Someone drove them out of town, but they're dead. Try to find anywhere a statement about dead kids now. You can't find it. You go to Wikipedia. You you search the word child. You search the word. You read it. There's no mention of dead children. There were 750 kids missing according to USA Today. Then all of sudden the governor is saying, well, you know, we're worried about land speculators, so we're gonna buy the land up so that the speculators can't get it. I go, so you can sell it to your friends? Right? Is it possible maybe they mowed down Lahaina because they want to put up resorts and things? Right? But what also was out there was this idea of directed energy weapons starting the fires. Now, I think that was a dead end. I don't think directed energy weapons were used even though there's a it's they're called DEWs. Even though there's a DEW facility on Maui, you don't need that. And there were videos. I go, I think those are fake. So I found nothing, but I used it as an excuse to read up on DEWs. And I was reading Rand reports from forty years ago and and Speaker 0: What is a directed energy weapon? Speaker 1: It's basically Star Wars. And so it's Reagan's Star Wars, and everyone said, oh, that's just science fiction. I go, well, Gorbachev seem to get wanna get rid of them every chance he got. So Gorbachev took him very seriously. So it turns out what you do is you put something in space, and it shoots some sort of energy, guided energy down to the surface of the earth, and it can the different frequencies have different efficacies, and so some are really good at hitting a target, some broaden out like microwaves are different than than some sort of ultraviolet laser. I'm not very good at this stuff, but and then I started reading about how what they do is they use a pulse of one laser to punch a hole through the atmosphere and then the second pulse would go through that hole. I mean, it's really clever stuff. This is forty year old Rand reports. What do they have behind the paywall forty years later? Now the best, I think, evidence of a DEW being used, and I was reading about fires in different places where trees were burning that shouldn't have burned and cars I wrote about it. If someone wants to go read it, that was a couple years ago. The best evidence of a DEW so if you've got these, you've to test them, right? This is like why you need why you need, you know, bioweapons labs in Ukraine. You gotta test them. You can't use lab rats. You look at the Quebec fires, satellite imagery of the Quebec fires, very mysterious. About 26 ish fires started simultaneously. How do you know some well, if a fire starts and then another one starts, it'll be downwind, so you'll see it'll look like the Hawaiian Islands. Right? Right. Boom, all at once. 26 fires in a crudely buckshot pattern. There was 350 miles in diameter. Boy, that's a determined arsonist or at least 26 of them. Yeah. With In the middle of nowhere. Speaker 0: Yeah. With helicopter I mean, there no roads. So Speaker 1: But but that and so it knows a cell phone can't do it, you know, nothing right there in the middle of nowhere, and all of a sudden, they all start simultaneously, and I'm going, okay. That probably was them testing out their weapons. And we have a lot of wars to test weapons. Right? Speaker 0: So you so your your basic overarching theory is around 02/1415, it became clear to the people running the world that you can't keep information under wraps anymore because the Internet is impossible to control. And so you had to flood people's brains with extraneous and misleading information. Speaker 1: And shut down people. They shut they booted the president of The United States off Twitter. Yeah. How is that possible? Speaker 0: Because he was a racist. Speaker 1: Shut up racist. That's what they told me. Shut up racist. Speaker 0: Was a racist. Speaker 1: Right. And, you know, so many there's something like 70,000 got booted off Twitter. My sister-in-law who's she had a Twitter feed. She can't get it back. You know, somehow, I don't know how I Speaker 0: saw What was her crime? Speaker 1: She must have said something favorable about Trump or something. I don't know. Speaker 0: So but the control of information, the shaping of people's understandings of the world around them, that's that's the whole game right there. Speaker 1: So I used to say the Internet was democracy's greatest hope and worst enemy, and that it was a battle. I don't think we're gonna win it, and the reason I don't is because it's too powerful, and so whoever has control of it will then have that power. So it's only a battle for who gets control of it. Speaker 0: Control of information. Speaker 1: Control of the the digital world. Yeah. Speaker 0: So if you see voices out there dissenting from the Speaker 1: I hear voices, Tony. If you Speaker 0: if you see if you see or hear voices that are dissenting from the official storyline, they're gonna have to be silenced or eliminated, mean. Speaker 1: Well, look at what happened. Look at the ambushes that occurred when Thomas Massie, who I think is great, Rand Paul, who I think has matured immensely, and who is the third Republican who who stepped away from the narrative, and all of a sudden the attacks were relentless. Speaker 0: Now that could just be Trump being Trump. It wasn't just Trump attacking them, though. Speaker 1: I know. Marjorie Taylor. Marjorie Taylor Greene, who, by the way, is nowhere near as stupid. I mean, she's not even stupid. Oh, I know. She ran a construction company. Speaker 0: Oh, I know. And her She just doesn't have whatever that normal The fear that controls people in DC where like, I can't Speaker 1: But how do you turn on Thomas Massey? Marjorie Taylor Greene at least played a role in KFAB that you can imagine drawing fire. Massey's this guy, you know, who who built his own house and fixes his own car, and he's he's an engineer. He's he's he's 's he's he archetype of who we ought to be. Speaker 0: As a country. Speaker 1: As a country. I so vehemently agree with turned on him. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well, I haven't. We know why they turned on him. I texted with him this morning. No. I I mean, you know, you could say I disagree with with Thomas Massey, but if you think Thomas Massey is the problem You are the problem. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. Just because, first of all, he's a decent man, which always matters to me, and I think it should matter to all of us. You could, you know, give Thomas Massey a routing number, and he's not going to take a dollar. He's just not. He's not going He's Speaker 1: the only one without a handler. Speaker 0: That's true. And and I think we should admire that even if you think that all members of congress should be required to have handlers. It's okay to live in a world where one doesn't. That's what I find Speaker 1: so Right. It's not okay to live in a world where everyone else does. Speaker 0: No. I agree with you, but I just find what's so interesting, and there's a religious quality to all of these conversations that I find so striking. It's like, it's okay if you have, you know, all this power, all this money, if you run-in the US government or whoever you are with a lot of power, you know, you can afford to have some percentage of the population not play along. Like, you don't need doesn't need to be an Albanian election in 1982. Like, you can have some descent. Speaker 1: Unless you're an authoritarian state. Speaker 0: I guess that's right. I mean, but even in an effective authoritarian state, it's Saudi Arabia in The Emirates. These are, you know, basically, theocracies. They don't they don't agree with that, but they you know, these are Islamic states under Sharia law. You can kinda dissent. It's okay. You just can't do anything really threatening, of course. Right. But more dissent is allowed in Abu Dhabi than in DC. I just find that just absolutely incredible. Like, what is this? Why why can't they allow Thomas Massey to just, like, have his own Massey views? Speaker 1: He's a vote. Speaker 0: He's a vote? Okay. But you got you got hundreds of others. Like, I I just think it's weird. There's this desire to make sure that nobody sings off the song sheet, like, and that person must be killed. And I wow. I just I don't enforce that among my own children. Speaker 1: So Do you know what I'm talking about? No. I absolutely know We what talking used to allow opposing views. Speaker 0: Yeah. I mean, look. If someone is really a threat to the system well, I think that should be allowed personally because the people on the Speaker 1: government in what way. But yes. Speaker 0: In what way? I have a very wide strike zone for that. But I get it if the system is like, I'm sorry. You're an actual threat. We have to kill you. Okay. Systems exist to preserve themselves. I understand that. What I really can't even comprehend is someone out there in a place I've never been and never will go among 350,000,000 people is making a noise that I disagree with. I must crush him. What is that? That's just weird to me. Why are you going to the effort to shut down Speaker 1: all dissent? I I don't know. But Speaker 0: But it's that's that's That's what's happening. Oh, I know. Not Speaker 1: to swing the topic yet again, let me let me get back to the universities. People don't understand universities. There are people who do, obviously, but the average person doesn't. So so people are gonna say I'm talking my book. Let me let me take this opportunity with your gargantuan following to explain how universities work Speaker 0: so that Well, let me just say before you begin that I'm amazed by the broadness of your thinking right or wrong. Speaker 1: You're Speaker 0: certainly thinking thoughts that most people don't allow themselves to think, and you are a tenured professor at an Ivy League college, and you still have your job apparently. So that does say something. Speaker 1: It would be hard to fire me. Apparently. I mean, part of problem one of reasons I got canceled is because I twice fought unionizations. Yep. And the first time was at the request of the dean of faculty. Second time was at the request of the provost of late night phone call. You gotta fight this. Gotta You put together a team, and that's the now president. And so if they fired me, that group was sort of behind my cancellation, so firing me would have been hard because, you know, you know, witness number one would be, did you ask column to to fight the unions, and did that lead to, you know, them canceling him and stuff like that? I really think Cornell is great. I think most universities are fine. We needed a fastball past our chin. Great example, Claudine Gay. Shouldn't be president of Harvard, shouldn't be on the faculty, shouldn't have a PhD in my opinion. That is the sign of the rot that has gotten into the universities, but then it's still an exceptional rot. So I I don't see people at Cornell that look like Claudine Gay to me. And and if you actually look in the the whole DEI thing, you say, well, universities are super duper DEI, and I go, you guys are forgetting that a year ago or two years ago, if you weren't DEI, you got destroyed. The whole system was geared up to make sure you paid dearly if you weren't DEI, so you had to have your deans of diversity and your you you the the the world was demanding it. Don't forget this is a world where where where biological men were were competing in women's sports. They still kind of are, but at least it's now starting to dissipate. And that was considered totally normal and was considered rational. And if you fought it, you get fired and things like that. So so the universities were simply responding. Now they'd gotten way left wing. My colleagues were all hired, all hired based on their skills. Guaranteed. I would I'd remember a case if it was a DEI hire. I remember a case because I would have fought it. I would have screamed. I don't shut up on things like that. We try to find the best person in the world to hire, and we go for that person if we can, and we do pretty well. And so if you were on a campus, you wouldn't see what we're hearing about. I don't think. You'd walk around the campus, you go, everything just looks pretty normal. As you're Speaker 0: in the hardest of the hard sciences though, do you think that Speaker 1: That's the problem. If I walked over the Arts Quad, I'd see some Looney Tunes. Right? And we're we're now just the cost of an education is too high to waste it. And so if you're gonna spend $300,000, you can't you can't go into a career that you make 40,000 or that you make 25 because you're a barista. Yeah. Right? It's just no longer even viable, so you have to. So colleges if I were president of Cornell, I put together an elite committee of people I absolutely trusted and say, you guys are in charge of trying to figure out where we should be in twenty years and how to get there because because we can't be here in twenty years. It's not gonna work. Arts and sciences and this whole idea of this broadly based education was formed prior to the cost and was formed when wealthy people went to college. You could be frivolous if you want, and getting a sheepskin could get you onto Wall Street and be the lead analyst for all the .coms, Henry Blodgett style. Right? Those days are gone, and so colleges are gonna have to tighten up, but but my colleagues are, I would say, on average, out of 20 out of 30 colleagues, I'll say maybe I think 27 of them are left of center, and I can't explain why. Now when I talk to them, totally rational people, totally reasonable people. The way it works as a chemist is you are an entrepreneur. You get a job. They give you start up money to get started. You have to then go raise money. Funding rates are ballpark maybe 15% of the people who get funded. By the way, the ones who never get funded, they've dropped off, so that 15% is people still trying. And I'm gonna brag, I put 21 in a row successfully. Do the math on that. That's that's improbable. But my colleagues are constantly battling. They're putting together this program. They're running research groups of anywhere from five to 30. No one pays for that. They raise the money from the federal system. You say, well, the Fed shouldn't pay the money. Well, years and years ago, we decided the way to run a research program in The United States was through universities and federal grants. It was a Sputnik thing. There's other ways to do it, but we set up that system. And if you look at all the startup companies around the country and all the pharmaceutical agents, they all you can trace their origins back to academic labs. Pfizer discovers far fewer drugs than they buy from some small startup that came out of some biochemistry department or some medical school or something. And so so so the academic research area is is the foundation level starting point. I have a number of friends who are worth a fortune because they patented something, and that's actually good because it would be neutered and not even usable by the free market if it didn't have the patent coverage, and so it made sense. So so it puts an incentive system in there. Right? Cornell gets some, the investigator gets some, the department gets some, and the world gets a new drug. It's not a crazy system. Now there's other ways to do it, but that's not how we do it. And we produce the best science, so it worked. Now the problem is that Trump threw a fastball past our chin and we deserved it. We absolutely deserved it. So he's saying, look, get rid of the the guys in sports, which Penn did with Leah Thomas, you know, get rid of the DEI, which a lot of schools are trying to and at the same time ducking, you know, naming them by different things. But but the fastball was needed. The problem is he he as you said at breakfast, it was the social stuff that Trump was going after, but you don't go after the social stuff with social stuff. You go after it by going after the money. Right. So Harvard's locked down for $9,000,000,000 of research funds, my understanding is it's still locked down. Cornell's locked down for over a billion. Speaker 0: Which nine Harvard was getting 9,000,000,000 from the feds for research of various times, and it's on hold. Speaker 1: And it's on hold. And the word cancel versus frozen, I I was trying to figure it out. Columbia, I thought it was a canceled got crushed. And then Columbia put out a memo that said canceled. Now I don't know if that's because it's been canceled, but my understanding is the money's not flowing. Now the problem is, as a trustee said to me, you know, if this goes into 2026, we're in a world of trouble. I said, if this goes into August, we're in a world of trouble. I've got colleagues with 15 person research groups that are all funded by these federal grants, and they do good science. They do good science. There's probably some crap in the humanities, but they suck about $10,000 of grant money out of the system to do that stupid thing. I don't know. I don't even know if it's stupid. And there's no now if if you're getting your PhD, there's no one who can give you a postdoc. That's the next step. That step's broken. And so the system right now is on it's flatlined. And and I I really wish they'd gotten rid of USAID, and you told me they did. They just moved it. Well, that's a problem. But but I think I think the academic research system was working. Speaker 0: I think part of the problem from a civilian perspective are the endowments. Speaker 1: Now let me explain the endowments. Speaker 0: So for let me just complete the thought by saying it's the no tax part that I think drives some of us to wanna sort of storm the campus with guns because that's everyone's getting mean, the private equity guys are taking all their income as interest, so they're paying half the rate. But for a normal person, you know, you're paying over half of everything you make to the government, and it's being spent on nonsense or given to Ukraine. And then there are these giant hedge funds called university endowments that aren't paying any taxes. And I think that can really drive people bonkers, including me. Speaker 1: Well, I understand. There are some subtleties of endowments. Again, it's not to say that you're not a 100% correct, but I at least want to say to your listeners so they understand what they're complaining about. First and foremost, there supposedly are rules where the universities are not supposed to be competing with the private sector, so and they get around those. But if Cornell builds housing, is making money off the housing in town, that kind of breaks the rule, Right. But they build dorms and, you know, things like that. So you're right about that. The endowments are a funny game. First and foremost, I looked this up last week. Approximately 50% of all endowments spin off, so it spins off at revenue and Harvard's has been collecting since 1656. 50% of the money spun off goes to financial aid, which means making college more affordable, admittedly not very affordable for a lot of people, but making it more affordable, so so so half of the money being spun off is going right back to education of the students. Another 20 is for academic programs, which means paying for things that that would have have to be paid for or we'd have to do without. And I would argue we got bloated. So there's things we should have done without. If you looked at the dining program now compared to what we they have now, it's really unbelievable. Speaker 0: I'm not against good food. I'm against DEI administrators and administrators in general. Like, college should be focused on No. Speaker 1: I I agree with that. That and and that's where we should have gotten the fastball pass our Speaker 0: Should any of these schools have more tenured professors than they do administrators? I don't think so. Speaker 1: The the administrative bloat is a combination of all the problems that that drive you nuts and the fact that the interactions between the university and the the feds and the states has gotten more complicated. Right. So so for example, you need way more bean counters. Speaker 0: And grant writers and Speaker 1: Well, no. Grant writers are me. Okay. They're us. The the grants are being written by the faculty. And, again, the DEI Michigan's DEI payroll is was 93,000,000 last time I read about it. That's a lot of money. Right? But but but but just when you get a federal grant, there's so many things you have to do. It used to they ran it out of a shoebox. Here's your check. Spend it wisely. You know, that's what it's no longer like that. Now it reached the absurd point where you're supposed to make statements about how you're gonna save the whales and donate organs to Guatemalan orphans and things like that, and I think Trump's gonna successfully get a lot of that crap out of there. He would save Cornell a fortune if he could get rid of all of DI. Now I do think the original idea of affirmative action makes sense. It basically said, go find people who are being missed. Look into the dusty corners where you normally don't look and see if you find talent. Right? There's a famous chemist named Henry Gilman at I Speaker 0: thought the SAT was designed to do that. Speaker 1: No. The it turns out the SAT has problems now, and the reason it has problems is because when Kaplan got ahold of it, it and they for profit coach kids on how to do well, and then they made it such that the SAT could be taken three times and you get to use only the one you like, all of a sudden the cost of maximizing your score on the SAT became prohibitive. And so it's a legitimate argument that someone coming out of the hood cannot take the Kaplan course, take the SAT three test. So but you shouldn't get rid of it. You should just be aware of what it's telling you. Speaker 0: Would it be possible to design a corruption free screen for intelligence and, know, initiative? Speaker 1: Shut up, racist. No, but I mean No. So the idea Speaker 0: was that the SAT was supposed to democratize education. We're just going to locate Speaker 1: And discover kids who've got double eight hundreds who you wouldn't Speaker 0: have spotted. Exactly. Right. And actually, I have a child who got an 800, couldn't get into college. So so clearly, it's like the system has gotten so corrupt. So but but the idea in Kaplan, you said, corrupted it as well. Speaker 1: Well, it it that it it kinda corrupted the SAT. Speaker 0: Right. That's what I'm saying. Speaker 1: So Now the GRE, which is the next level, is nowhere near as corrupted it because by then, the students don't give a damn. They do, I'll take the GRE, and they so it's it's more legit. Speaker 0: But is there I mean, but the idea that of a color blind, class blind, pure, you know, meritocracy test is I mean, why give up Speaker 1: on that? Here's what I think we should do. I used I I was graduate director of graduate studies, which involved admission into our grad program for seven years record. The only guy who held the four administrative positions in the chemistry department, so that's pretty good for being the chemistry douchebag. And you learn about things. And I read undergraduate admissions on purpose for a number of years because and you read Regent, so I might read Manhattan, for example, and you learn about who's applying and stuff like that. And what I think you want to look for is a system where you see evidence that a kid overcame something. And it's not about color, although you could say non statistically it's about color. Right? But a kid from the Ozarks, you know, JD Vance, who I find his origin story a little suspicious, I must admit. But but but so we had a kid who applied and everything was sunshine and skittles, rainbows in his application. And one of his lighter writers said his mother died here. His father died here. He was raised by his neighbors, you know, and I'm going, and he didn't mention it? Speaker 0: I hope you let him in. Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yes. You give me in graduate admissions, I see some kid from Stanford with a I see some kid from Stanford with three point o. I didn't take him because a three point o is a kid who accepted a three point o. You show me I'll take a four point zero from St. Mary's College of the Divinity because that kid said, here's the they said, here's the highest you can get to. That kid got there, right? MIT kids with lousy GPAs are lousy grad students, even though they're smarter than hell, but they're cocky. Now, it turns out you show me a kid from Stanford with a three point zero who played football. I take the kid in a heartbeat. You show me a kid from Stanford who who who who is a three point o, who is in you know, who is, you know, brilliant violinist. I'll take that kid. My here's my son. My son applies to Cornell for reasons you know he was gonna get in. But his resume I had once underachiever as a kid, who's now phenomenal, and the one who is a superachiever. What's superachieving? And we didn't push him because it was a pain in the ass. We're driving all the time. All State Orchestra first violin, gold medalist in the eight state regional gymnastics championship, fifth in the nation equestrian, played lacrosse. Got a resume better than that. So here's what happened. My older son who could care less about school, Just nothing. His teacher said, sweet kid, no attention. At one point I said to a teacher, the only kids he's beaten are crack babies. And she kind of blew a snap bubble and then said, yeah. He's now phenomenally successful. He's a super dad. I'm so proud of the level of dadness that he is. He's the director of event management at the Council on Foreign Relations. After being the most underwhelming kid in high school, he grew up. He climbed Mount Stupid a little bit late. Unfortunately, was in a family that could help him get over it when the time came. The thing that we get credit for is not breaking them. It's not it's not forcing them into a mold that didn't fit. You know who he is? You know the book Ferdinand the Bull? Of course. Child's story? Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: That book wasn't for kids. That was for the parents. That was telling the parents your kid is Ferdinand maybe. My other one was Mike Mulligan's steam shovel. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Right? Faster the the more people watch, the faster he went. Ironically, the overachiever got to Cornell and got lost. The the underachiever got just grew nicely in college, and now the the younger one is now a professional after trying cubicle farming and all that crap that you get by being a business major at Cornell Hotel School. He's a professional violinist in Boston. Better outcome. Better outcome. Bank of Dad's important because violinists in Boston don't make a lot of money. But I'm happy to support it because it's his soul. You know why he's a professor? You want neurobiology? My wife was flat on her back when she was pregnant. She put headphones against her stomach and played classical music when he was in the womb. I know prenatal development is important. By the time he's three years old, his friends are singing B. I. N. G. O. And he's listening to orchestra pieces and he'd say, I like this part right here, and you'd hear the second violins come in there and he'd go, right there, I like that. And I'm going, holy shit, this kid's got an ear. He has an ear like you he developed an ear in So the don't do that to your womb. You'll have a musician in your family if you So do Speaker 0: I wanna ask you here since you mentioned the struggle, you know, the the triumph, but also the struggle to pay for it because the economy doesn't support young people very well Since you did call the financial collapse of two thousand eight, it sounds like. Speaker 1: Mhmm. In 02/2002. Speaker 0: In 02/2002. So you couldn't short you couldn't get rich shorting anything. I I shorted twice, Speaker 1: and it's shortings for fools and pros, and the Venn diagram of those two is almost that. Speaker 0: That's exactly right. They're both I know both. Yes. Yeah. Where are we now? We're in a catastrophic situation. Catastrophe seems strong. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I I think you can make arguments the economy has a lot of problems, and and and there's there's a paradoxical problem with the economy, and that is you can go up to any seven eleven and they can't hire. They there there's help wanted ads. So it looks like an economy burning burning hot. But if you look at the high end, there's layoffs going everywhere. So there's foreshadowing of of real trouble coming. Speaker 0: So college graduates, even Ivy League graduates, humanities graduates, not engineers or chemists, but, you know, the the business guy or whatever, they're having trouble getting jobs. The kind Speaker 1: that they're trained for, certainly. Speaker 0: Yeah. But there's just I mean, I know a bunch of them, and but you see it in the numbers. Educated 22 year olds are having trouble getting jobs, but seven eleven can hire. Right. So what what is that? Speaker 1: Well, so this is a normal sort of it's a distorted version of of, I think, a recession coming or or in. Now where it gets complicated is if you don't believe the inflation numbers, which I don't, and you've got Chapwood Index and Shadowstats that give inflation numbers that are probably on average six or 7% higher than the official numbers. The official numbers are corrupted, and I don't want to go into it because it's technical, but But the CPI is The CPI is crap. Speaker 0: Right. I agree with that. Speaker 1: Now here's the problem. If the economy's been growing two and a half percent and the inflation numbers are underestimated by four, means we've been in a recession the whole way. Speaker 0: Yeah. Moving backwards. Speaker 1: We're moving backward. And you say, that can't happen. The recessions last, you know, two quarters or whatever. And I go, no, the British Empire was in a recession for a century. Right? They just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. And so so, no, you can be in you can you can be in a slow decline. So so but that's not what we're that's not the catastrophe. Speaker 0: Recession means decline. Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually, I I think it's a stupid word because I agree. It's like you you play golf? No. Well, if you play golf, you you go down into the sand trap. According to the definition of a recession, once you start climbing out, you're out. You ask a golfer if he's out of the sand trap because he's on the upslope of the trap. He's not. No. So the fact that your economy is not growing again, if it's coming out of a hole, as far as I'm concerned, you're not out until you've gotten past that previous period. So you're at par. Yeah. So you're at par. Right. Now, that's not the catastrophe because they happen all the time, and we've been able to either cover them or fake them or prevent them through very bad monetary policy. Speaker 0: Monetary policy. Speaker 1: Right. And what's bad? Pumping the stock market is just stupid. But but, you know, private equity buys private equity buys has bought up 80% of the hospitals, the health care, and what they do is they go in and they they they buy some organization, they strip it of its assets, they load it with debt, they pay themselves huge fees and bonuses, and then they sell the shell of a company, which is now effectively worthless, into the marketplace, like to pension funds, who are not smart enough to recognize that they just bought a piece of crap, and according to Gretchen Morgansson, a forty seven percent bankruptcy rate. Speaker 0: Now Post sale. Speaker 1: Post sale. Now, as long as it's profitable to buy viable companies, destroy them, sell the shell and make money, monitor money's too loose. Precious capital, if capital is is of real value, it's a moat. So good businessman can get capital, bad businessman can't. The fact that BlackRock could buy single family dwellings, which is a terrible business, you really can't make money unless you can unless there's a housing boom and you leverage up to hell. The fact that they could get it for at an interest rate of point 15% is a highly flawed system, and that's where the inventory went after o seven to o nine. It got bought up by these guys who could lever up and then charge rents to people. So they basically scoop scoop up the housing market. Speaker 0: Now With with free with free money. Speaker 1: With free money. Kind of free money. Unlike, you know, credit cards, which are 25%. Speaker 0: Right? And that's just free. I mean, if once you factor in inflation Speaker 1: It's it's a gift. Yeah. It's it's it's it's it's profitable money. Speaker 0: Literally, just taking the loan is profitable. Yes. You don't have to do anything with it. Yes. Yes. Right. Yeah. Speaker 1: So so here here's what happened. Somehow the market has ceased to respond, and the reason the market's important is because is because of the wealth effect, and that is that if you own equities, you own a house and they're soaring in price, your spending habits change. You you I'm having a great year, for example, so when the Bank of Dad has to provide some liquidity to the children, I feel okay about it, right? The problem is is that it's a false wealth. It's not real wealth. It's a false wealth. So what happened? Well, I'm getting tired of seeing these. I see four year plots of the equity market and they make various comparisons. I go, don't go back four years. Don't go back forty years. Go back one hundred and twenty years. So I follow about 25 metrics of valuation. Valuation is inherently a price of the market relative to something it ought to track, whether it's the earnings, the revenues, the book value, I think called Tobin's Q, the GDP, which is a fictional number as I've heard you recently say, but I follow about 25 of them. So you can get a track where the markets have gotten expensive relative to the thing it ought to track. Now, around 1981, the markets were at the cheapest valuation arguably in history. Inflation was scaring everyone, which is why they were cheap. It turns out that the boomers were just hitting the workforce, so demographics was a huge tailwind starting around then, and most economists agree demographics is huge. Now, I'm disingenuous in that I quote economists selectively. In the next sentence, I'll probably say something horrible about them, and so I'm obviously cherry picking my data, but economists like demographics. So the boomers hit the workplace, so it was almost guaranteed. I think Reagan was not important. I think think he did some very important things, but I think whoever got to be president was going to be at the beginning of a boom. It turns out that China was coming out of the dark ages. They started selling labor at slave wages. They were so desperate for capital when they sent their leader, don't make me pronounce his name, to the United Nations when he first started opening up. Speaker 0: Was it Deng Xiaoping? Speaker 1: Yes. And they had to scrounge to get the money to send him. I mean, they really didn't have any foreign capital. And so I remember when China said we're gonna let our workers keep some of their profits. It's like, woah. Russia had the Soviet Union hadn't collapsed, but they were in trouble, so they were obviously cranking a resource base as hard as they could, and we had our guys in there helping them and stuff like that. And interest rates were at all time highs. And if you read a 1999 article by Buffett, who I think is a hoser, I think he's much more of a stock jobber, much more of a conniver than he is. He loves to be the the mafia don walking around in a bathrobe saying I'm harmless. He is not harmless. When when when when we're in a bottom, he breaks all sorts of laws. They do all sorts of insider crap to bail the system out, but he pretends to just like Dairy Queen and Coca Cola or whatever. He wrote an article in '99 that said, you want to understand secular, big, long, bull versus bear markets. It's all interest rates. He said, it's not GDP. He said from '67 to '81, everything sucked. It treaded water, not accounting for inflation, and the markets dropped 75 accounting for inflation. So it was a horrible period. He said the GDP grew faster during that period than from '81 to '99. But interest rates from '67 to '81 went up From 81 to 99, they went down. So we started in '81 with interest rates in the high teens and over the next forty years they dropped to zero. That is absolutely the story. So when interest rates are dropping, risk assets go up. Yep. Because they're competing against and as they So get bottom line is that we just enjoy forty year recency bias. Speaker 0: Can you just explain that principle right there? You said as interest rates drop, risk assets go up. Speaker 1: Or are you gonna buy shares of a stock that, by the way, has treated you like crap over the previous fourteen years or a bond that pays you 17%. Right. Right. So the bonds become less, the fixed income become less, less attractive steadily for forty years. Now take the Case Shiller PE, which is which is just one of the metrics, but I happen to like it. It's a kind of an averaged earnings price earnings ratio. It also doesn't allow you to cheat because it doesn't use the immediate and forward PEs are stupid, but K Shiller averages, so I like it. If you take the K Shiller from eighteen eighty to nineteen ninety, it just channels. It's a valuation metric and it just goes up and down and up and down, and that's what it should do. Responds to things, but it stays in a channel. It's flat. Valuation metrics shouldn't trend. They should trend for a while, but then they should regress to the mean unless you can someone can give me an argument why they should trend, and I don't think there is one, and I've tried to find one. And then in 1990, they just kind of started to take off And the K PE averaged around 13% for a hundred and ten years. Then around 1990, oddly 1994, in every metric is when things left. I think it was because of a bond problem or something. I haven't been able to quite figure out why. But the valuations went up. Now here's the problem with valuations going up and now they're astronomical. So the KCLP averaged 13, which meant it was priced to return about 8% a year. Right? If you think of it as a gas station and you're paying, you know, 13 to one earnings, you're getting about 8%, and and it keeps pumping gas every year, you get about 13%. It is now 38. It's way above where it should be. It's a factor of 200%. Now, if you assume it's never going to regress to the mean. Now you're accepting, crudely speaking, a two and a half percent return, not an eight. Now, if you're okay with two and a half percent, that's fine. But by the way, most pensioners, most boomers are not planning on two and a half You're not right. Now, if it regresses to the mean, it's a 70% correction, assuming if it's fast, assuming nothing else changes, no damage to the economy. You know, all the bad things that happen when you lose 70% off the equity market, which is a questionable assumption. Another way to think about it, which I think is much clearer, is if you say, look, we'll just grow our way. I think it go up or down or up and down. You don't worry about the path. You say, if we grow 2.5% a year, which I just questioned as being valid, but let's assume it's valid, if we grow 2.5% a year to get back to historical average of 13, we'll take forty five years. Now here's the thing, made no assumptions about good news, bad news. I assumed it's coming like the twentieth century. Two and a half percent a year, it'll be forty five years from now. I don't care what path you follow. If we are at the average Case Shiller PE and the economy grew two and a half percent a year, the equity markets will have returned capital gains zero. And it doesn't matter if we crash and spike, it doesn't matter, you know, if we get to, you know, Dow 40,000, 50,000, 60,000. Forty five years from now, if we're at the mean, we will have earned nothing. Now you say, well, that would never happen. You go, well, if you own the o six, the $19.00 six high, you were even after something like forty years. I don't ask from you Speaker 0: You're own even after forty years. Speaker 1: If you buy if you own the top. Yep. People always say, well, how long did it take to get back to the top? That's a favorite question. You go, oh, you know, it took twenty two years. Oh, it took fifteen years. Oh, it took I like to ask a question. No. No. No. Not how long it took to get from the top back to even. How long did it take to go from that top to the last time that that price was attained adjusted for inflation? And those can go anywhere from forty to seventy five years. All you have to do is look at inflation adjusted S and P and draw a line from a top across the s s and P, and you will find that most of them break even in the Speaker 0: mid eighties no matter what year they started. So you're just answering the question, what the hell is going on with land prices and asset prices? Everything. Everything's mispriced. But is it mispriced? I mean, if I've got excess money, you know, and I need to store it somewhere and I'm listening to you, I'm like, oh, I think I'm gonna buy something a little less volatile, a little more real. Speaker 1: Like real estate. Speaker 0: Exactly. Okay. Speaker 1: The first time home and I know this drives you bananas. The first time homebuyers not too many decades ago were on average about 30 years old. Yep. I just read. What's the fact? I don't know. 56 now. First time homebuyers, 56. Speaker 0: That's been a massive consequence. Speaker 1: Do want to buy into that market that somehow seems like it has to regress because you can't have people going fifty six years without owning a house, right? You said you personally, I think it was in Turning Point USA, you went absolutely nonstop about how you can worry about Ukraine, but we've got guys we've got young adults who can't raise families in houses. Speaker 0: Yeah. And and it it creates a very scary political environment where people don't own anything and therefore have nothing to lose and no future. Speaker 1: Right. Well, here's an interesting ADHD moment. Monogamy versus polygamy. And this will sound random, but it'll get you Speaker 0: to the same No, it's a core question actually. These are the building blocks of the West. Speaker 1: Turns out polygamy monogamy is viewed as favoring women. That turns out to be backwards, and it's a simple math. Imagine there's a 100 people ranked one to a 100. Number one hundred's Mr. Big Cheese, and on the women's side, hottest chicken on the planet. Right? Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: Monogamy says number one would marry number one, number two would marry number two in the perfect system. So think of it as just a very simple model, and that what you can't do is if you're at the bottom of the chain, marry up. Right. If you do, then someone else gets pushed down. Of course. Right? So it would be of the interest of the girl working seven Eleven to be Jeff Bezos' second wife. Speaker 0: Yeah. I think that happened. Speaker 1: So so so in fact, you can upgrade your game and and, you know, Elon, right? I mean, the guy's a reproduction machine. Right? The women are signing off on it because it's better to be with a guy worth that kind of money than broke. Right? And and so it turns out that you say, well, then why did cultural evolution lead to monogamy? And the answer is is because it minimizes violence. Right. It's for the men. Of course. So they don't fight. Speaker 0: Well, yeah, because in a polygamous system, all the high status males scoop up all the women. Speaker 1: Well, now in a situation where men can't provide the home for their families and stuff like that, and so we're gonna fight. Speaker 0: I've noticed. Speaker 1: I've noticed that too. And so now here's the deal. Let's say we're I'm right and we're to market top. And if if I'm not, I think we're close. One of the things that my peers who were paranoid as hell about this, some very smart guys, they tend not to put numbers on it. I'm one of the few who puts numbers on it. There's there's a couple others who do, but they just say all the valuations are ridiculous. But no one wants to be on record that we're gonna be to say it's catastrophically overpriced, whatever correction you get, you say, see, I told you. I'm saying 200% overpriced. Now, how do you get out of overvaluation? You can't inflate your way out. No. Because the numerator, the price, and the denominator, the thing is supposed to track, both are influenced by inflation. So as your price goes up because of inflation, your revenues go up because of inflation. You're still 200% over historical average valuation. And so you can't inflate away an overvaluation. Speaker 0: So what I mean, is this just a gravity scenario where, ultimately, it has to revert to its actual value? Speaker 1: Model I have, and they never work because it's always one of these, something will be creatively different, but the best model is a Nikkei. Japan hit a high in '89. It briefly got back to that thirty five years later. It's actually below that, I think, if I remember correctly. Inflation adjusts for that guaranteed. Speaker 0: Yes. Yes. That's right. Speaker 1: I asked someone during a podcast if you can do this spreadsheet for me, I'd love to get it. Someone did it. I said, what if you started buying the Nikkei at the top? Not own the knee. If you own the Nikkei at the top, you're dead meat, you die broke. But what if you what if you started buying 22 year old graduate of Tokyo University, you started putting yen into the Nikkei in 1989. How long if you average then did it take you to break even? It's around two decades. Starting with zero in the Nikkei. So I was on a podcast with George Nobel, Twitter Space actually. He was Peter Lynch's right hand man, and he said, well, you could I said, I think the markets will be uninvestable. He said, oh, you can do this and this. And I said the Nikkei, and he said, oh, you could short. I said, no, you couldn't. You can't short a market that takes twenty years to find a bottom. Speaker 0: So Short long time Speaker 1: a market like in o seven to o '9. Right. Speaker 0: Right. A volatile market. Yes. You can't a market in inexorable decline can't be short. Speaker 1: Sore for in a top, aren't tops supposed to be euphoric? Remember the.com? Speaker 0: Oh, yes. The world Speaker 1: was changing, the nifty 50, you know? Webvan and e toys, pets.com. Know, sustainable prosperity. We are supposed to be true believers that the world is wonderful. Do you sense much of the population thinks the world's wonderful? Speaker 0: I don't I don't sense that, and all around us are signs of Speaker 1: What's it gonna look like when 70% gets clipped off this market? Speaker 0: So I'm immediately going to prepper survival mode. What where are the enduring safe stores of value? Speaker 1: I don't you can't answer that. I bought gold at around $2.70 an ounce. 270? 270. Speaker 0: Hope you bought a lot of it. Speaker 1: I did. But it's worth a lot more now. Do you think? Speaker 0: Yeah. What spot price today? Do you know? Speaker 1: Ballpark, 3,300. Yeah. I bought silver. I bought gold below $2.70. I'll tell you why, because my first purchases were actually in a closed end mutual fund that was trading 27% below net asset valuation because people say, oh, it's easy to buy back then. Was cheap. I said it was cheap because five of us wanted it. Speaker 0: Right. Well, of course. Right. Speaker 1: And by the way, the top, some Tuesday afternoon at 02:03 p. M, we will hit a top that will be decades later to be returned to potentially. The top is the point maximum optimism, which paradoxically is the moment in time where your justification for optimism is zero. The bottom is the same thing in reverse. Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: So so we're not happy now. Speaker 0: So you're saying the herd's not always right, is Osha saying? Speaker 1: I'm told. I'm told. We're So Speaker 0: let's hold on. Let's just go back to gold for a second. So you buy Speaker 1: I bought gold net at around 2 ten. Speaker 0: Come on. Speaker 1: Well, I bought it 28% below NAV when it was Physical delivery? No. That was not physical. But then I started buying here's what I did. I bought gold from the local coin dealer. Yeah. And I'd say, when you get ounces, I'll pay cash. And he sold it to me at Spot. And he'd call and say, got three ounces in, I'd go to the bank, I'd get out $900, right, and I'd buy the gold from him. Cash. I buy silver from them. Cash. I could buy silver eagles at spot. You go on eBay. Holy shit. Those things are like $10 above spot. And and it was for for ballpark $4 an ounce. And and then I remember it was at $4.57, and I was buying from him. And he said, don't you think there's a top? He knew I was gonna buy it. He said, don't you think there's a top? Speaker 0: $457 an ounce for gold. Speaker 1: There's like, oh, three or something. I know. And and I said, how many people are buying gold from you? He said, oh, about four. And I said, and the other three are my friends, aren't they? He said, yeah. And I said, does that sound like a mania to you? And and so here's the thing I've been on. I'm a big fan of energy, but I think when the selling starts, everything sells. You'll be selling your children. You'll be sell right? Everything sells. So I think the idea of trying to get into any risk assets so dangerous, I'll take 4% on a treasury, two year treasury. Some people think, you know, I'll lock it up for two years and then, oh, that'll save me. I won't dip buy after six months. Speaker 0: So at what price would you buy gold again? Speaker 1: Well, I've got so much I don't need anymore. If I didn't own any, I'd buy it now, but the Bitcoin guys would say buy Bitcoin at a 117,000. I turned it down at 10. I wish I'd bought it. I would have sold it at 50 and spent the proceeds on therapy. Why Why on therapy? Because I would have sold it at 50. Speaker 0: Right. Good point. And I Speaker 1: know I would have. I know I would have. Speaker 0: You don't you don't believe in crypto? Speaker 1: I don't think so. The crypto can be I am their number one target. They say you are a hodler, and I won't buy it. The reason is because I believe that several layers. One is that I believe that the authorities are not gonna let crypto take over. Speaker 0: Of course not. Speaker 1: And and by the way, that means that Speaker 0: They're gonna lose total control over society? Speaker 1: That's Yeah. Speaker 0: I don't think You Speaker 1: think the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds are gonna hand it over to Max Keiser and Michael Saylor? I don't think so. Speaker 0: But you don't you don't think That's Speaker 1: what I think it actually is. You know, the first paper on crypto was written by three NSA guys. Yeah. That means I think if I were smart and I were gonna bring in central bank digital currency, which is an authoritarian nightmare, I would do it the way they did. I'd release the crypto. I'd have guys pumping it. I'd have guys supporting it. I'd let them debug the networks and the kinks and acclimate people to it, and then I'd say, okay. It was fun. We'll take it from here. Speaker 0: And in the process, of course, you acclimate people to this new Digital world. New kind of commerce. Yeah. Exactly. No. That's and I get rid of the ATMs, and I would make airport convenience stores credit card only, and I would do all that stuff to to change people's habits. Liberty. Of course. Oh, I couldn't agree more. So you just have too much gold. You just don't want any more gold. Speaker 1: I I just no. No. That it's I I'm What Speaker 0: about real estate right now? Speaker 1: I'm long I own a nice house. I'm long real estate by owning that house. I wouldn't buy real estate as a speculation. If I if you put a gun to my head, I'd say maybe farmland, but that's been getting scooped up. That's a pretty trite narrative now. Speaker 0: Big time. Well, I follow that because I'm interested. And, I mean, it's turning for just crazy numbers an acre and Speaker 1: that Well, that's a problem. Speaker 0: That's what I'm saying. Speaker 1: So So here's what I here's what I watched for years and then jumped in, and it's a problem. The modern market, I bought gold steadily from '99 through about o three, and then I bought some more when it was around 1,200 in the teens. I said, okay, it's kind of flattened out. I'm gonna get some more. So around bought it around $1,200 in maybe 2016 or something. And but the modern markets don't wait. If you get a good idea and social media stuff, it will close-up that gap so fast you won't know what hit you. So I'm bullish on energy long term, energy equities and stuff, but I think they're gonna sell before they become a good buy. And so I just can't commit a lot of money to the energy, though I think I I have some mutual funds on uranium based investments, which I think we gotta go to, and now it looks like we are. I actually think AI is not demanding nuclear energy. I think AI is being used as a Trojan horse to bring in nuclear energy, which I support. I think they're using the buzz of AI to say, let's get the nukes going. People say, yeah, nukes, we need it for the AI. We've needed nukes, it was the obvious next thing to go to. Platinum. For years I watched Platinum. Owned so little Platinum that if it went to zero, I wouldn't even notice. I mean, trivial, trivial amount. And I've been watching, it's been flat, I mean flat as in like a flat line not moving away from $900 an ounce by a few dollars flat for ten years after dropping. And I go, what's the platinum story? Well, platinum story is I don't trade. I don't trade at all. If I buy it, I'm buying it saying, I'm hanging on to it. If it goes down, I don't trade. The platinum story is I don't believe in the EV. I don't think it's a good technology. I think it'll be here, but I don't think it's gonna take over the world. I think the hybrids are gonna take over the world. Speaker 0: Well, they make sense. They make inherent sense. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're more efficient. They use more platinum than internal combustion engines because their catalytic converters burn colder, so they need more platinum. Now here's where it gets real interesting. The platinum miners are in Russia and South Africa. Russia will therefore have control. South Africa could become a failed state so fast, you know, it itches, right? More to the point, and again, trying to get real facts on this stuff, but the above ground platinum supply, the available platinum supply is something like $3,000,000,000, which is something a medium sized hedge fund could buy at current prices. It's been in deficit production for at least four years. Speaker 0: What does deficit production mean? Speaker 1: Means that we're consuming more per year than the Speaker 0: miners Oh gosh. Are Okay. Speaker 1: Based on the rate of deficit production that the above ground supply will be gone within about a year. Speaker 0: So there's no more platinum? Speaker 1: Arguably. We could go to potentially palladium, but, you know, whatever. Platinum has not gone through a meme phase, so might a little bit of trader me says that meme phase could get spectacular. Platinum could Speaker 0: go to 20,000. Because it has industrial uses. Right. You know, it seems kind of natural. Speaker 1: So I decided I was so I reached out to some technical analyst who draw the squiggles on the on the curves, and I make I I'm sarcastically occasionally commenting about technical analysis, but I I can't do it or don't believe in or whatever. But I asked a few I said, look at this plot. Where would you start getting excited? Because it's been flying for ten years, I don't need to put money in and have it sit there for ten years more. Speaker 0: And a Speaker 1: few gave me opinions about what price, so I kind of formulated an opinion where I had to start and then hit it. Now instead of buying it, you know, slowly, I said in the modern era you got to move quick. So I started hitting the buy button and I'm still not. I face a boomer dilemma. The boomer dilemma is the good news is my net worth is good enough if I don't screw up, I'm fine. I mean, I could retire today, not earn another penny. Fine. I wanna leave money to my kids, I will be able to. The paradox is that to commit to an asset requires committing a percentage that's not stupid. If you commit point 01% of your assets to it, it's not going to make a difference no matter what happens. Speaker 0: So Speaker 1: if you say, well, 5%. When I look at the quantity of money I have to spend to commit 5%, it seems huge, but it's only 5%. And so as a consequence, I go, look, if it went if it went to zero tomorrow, I'd have a bad day. I'd lose 5% of my assets, but it would be too much money. So so I'm fighting this bias about how many dollars it takes to get to a Speaker 0: I get it. So let me ask you just a a wrap up question, which is given your description of where we are, and you haven't even mentioned what could be a debt crisis when people stop buying our debt or or slow down. But there are all kinds of things to worry about that are seem imminent. How does the average person respond? Speaker 1: They don't have any money anyways. Speaker 0: Yeah. Fair. Speaker 1: I mean, the the average person has no money. Speaker 0: So yeah. Speaker 1: So how does the five percentile boomer respond? Yeah. Well, years ago, I did an analysis on the five percentile boomer. This is how bad it is. This is years ago, actually. And it it actually got vetted by Steven Roach, who's executive director of Morgan Stanley. He looked at my numbers and actually you've overestimated something, you should be more conservative. I invented five percentile guy. At that time he was worth $1,100,000. He was earning $156,000 a year. You also know he's not 22 years old, he's probably a boomer because it takes a while to get to five percentile. At a reasonable rate of withdrawal from a retirement account, mister five percentile guy who is has to be living the American dream could take about $48,000 out. Annually? Annually. Without risking going broke. And you know what? They don't know how to live on 48,000. No. And they might have other assets. This is a complicated analysis, but that's a scary number. Speaker 0: For a modern life, that's Speaker 1: a Yeah. Well, the but the thing is if he knew how to live on $3,048,000 dollars, he'd have more than 1,100,000.0. Speaker 0: Good point. Speaker 1: And so so we've got a whole generation that has got expectations that are just off the chart distorted, and it's not because of a five year or ten year recency bias. It's a forty year recency bias. It's 1981. Let me finish that story. From 1981, the valuation, which should not trend, compounded annually 4% a year. What happens over the next forty years when it compounds negative 4% a year to get to cheap again? Now you say, well, that'll never happen. I go, of course, it'll happen. Show me an asset class that got overpriced. It didn't become cheap again. Speaker 0: Well, if you believe in markets, that's just by definition going to happen. Speaker 1: Right. And if there's a way to fake it it doesn't happen, then it means you're just diluting as to what actually happened. You're not getting a reality. Speaker 0: Right. Right. Speaker 1: And so the bottom line is is that the boomer demographic almost by definition was gonna generate a bubble, a big mother bubble because of the demographics. Now I was telling you about how I was reading my old write ups from like thirteen, fourteen, 15. I make a compelling case that that the markets were crazy. How do I do it? I use numbers, I use stats, and I use quotes from the most famous money guys in the world. You know, Paul Tudor Jones, Stan Druckenmiller, you name it. These are not lightweights saying these markets are insanely overvalued in 2015. What has happened since then? Straight up. Speaker 0: Oh, Example. For Speaker 1: Apple, tenfold gain on a growth in revenues of 50%. '95 per 95% correction brings that back down. Microsoft, 150% gain in revenues, tenfold gain. Doesn't make mathematical sense. Let's go to Nvidia. There is the winner. $4,000,000,000,000 of market cap being run by a guy who has a very sketchy past. 25 fold gain in revenues. You go, now we're talking 250 fold gain in market cap. Speaker 0: Yeah. So that's the problem right Speaker 1: there. 90% correction takes you back to 02/2015. Do you remember 2015 being depressed? I don't. Stan Druckenmiller didn't think so. Howard Marks didn't think so. All these guys who are considered legends thought the markets were insanely overpriced in '15. And it's been nothing but up. And that will end. I don't know when. Speaker 0: And you think that all asset classes are tied to that? Speaker 1: I can't say all because that means a 100%, but I I if I found something that I thought was dirt cheap, I'm glad I own the gold from as cheap as I did because because when it goes down, I go, I'm still up on 15 fold or something. Right? So it makes it easier. Buying gold now from scratch would be harder. It would be that, you know, the number of dollars to get the percent position, that sort of thing. And I think the debt problem is global. If you actually look at the metrics for the growth in the global debt relative to global GDP, the entire world has become priced much more than ten years ago relative to what the world produces. So what's a global debt crisis? That's a question. Well, there's you got lenders and borrowers. It's a zero sum game. No, it's not. I know. A global debt crisis is when the entire world thinks they're gonna get shit that the world can't produce. And the way you think of how to create one artificial Gedanken experiment. Let's say the leaders of the world got together and said, look, let's just solve this problem. Let's guarantee health care to all our citizens. Let's guarantee their pension, all our citizens. Problem solved. They go, well, but you didn't in any way, shape or form increase the ability to produce wealth. So you now have obligations for which you haven't a clue how you're gonna pay for them. Who's gonna do it? Are you gonna have the Chinese delivering Chinese food to our door still? I don't think so. We're gonna be delivering food to the Chinese. So so everything will regress. Forty year recency bias says it won't. Speaker 0: It will. On that dark note, I'm just picturing myself showing up at a doorstep in Beijing with some kung pao chicken. Speaker 1: Hoping for a tip. Speaker 0: Hoping for Speaker 1: a tip. I can see you now. You turn the scan around and shoved the 25% tip in the guy's face. Speaker 0: Professor, thank you. I hope this doesn't get you fired. I hope you'll come back. Speaker 1: I anytime. You call, I'm in the car. Thank you.
Saved - August 21, 2025 at 3:50 PM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

"Some of the predictions of QAnon came true." "I think it's a bunch of ex-spooks." "I have some theories, people I know, actually." https://t.co/zRZaxY5Fvp

Video Transcript AI Summary
Both speakers admit they don't know what QAnon was. They recall material that would switch from useful information to 'the whole, and here's Trump and his generals are gonna save the world.' Friend spent year looking into QAnon; 'What'd he get? I don't fully understand it, but here's what I understand is that, you know, some of the predictions of QAnon came true.' They say it's 'a sophisticated thing. It's not just Oh, I think it's a bunch of ex spooks.' It's not 'a bunch of college kids on No. 4chan or whatever they claim it was.' They note 'these are guys who are probably pissed that the system went bad.' Behind it is unclear; 'What is obvious to me is that it was it's a control mechanism. Trying to siphon off some of that energy and move it in a' 'Siphoning off the energy.' That's Exactly. Less dangerous direction.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: What was QAnon? I don't know. I don't either. Speaker 1: You know, I'd be listening to something, and it would have useful information, and all of a sudden then it would show the whole, and here's Trump and his generals are gonna save the world No. I agree. For Christ's sakes. Speaker 0: But the interesting I never knew anything about QAnon. I never paid any attention at all. I have a good friend who I really admire, is much smarter than I am, who, because he is smarter than I am, took, like, a year to look into QAnon. What'd he get? I don't fully understand it, but here's what I understand is that, you know, some of the predictions of QAnon came true. I mean, it it's a sophisticated thing. It's not just Speaker 1: Oh, I think it's a bunch of ex spooks. Speaker 0: For sure. It's not a, you know, bunch of college kids on No. 4chan or whatever they claim it was. Speaker 1: These are guys who are probably pissed that the system went bad. Speaker 0: And it's unclear, you know, who's behind it. I have some theories, people I know actually, but but I don't know if they're true. What is obvious to me is that it was it's a control mechanism. Mhmm. Trying to siphon off some of that energy and move it in a Speaker 1: Siphoning off the Speaker 0: energy. That's Exactly. Less dangerous direction. Right.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

There aren’t many Ivy League professors as bold as Dave Collum. It’s amazing he still has a job. (0:00) How Collum Predicted the 2008 Financial Crisis (11:44) Collum’s Mission to Uncover the Truth About Covid (17:23) Did Covid Actually Come From a Lab in North Carolina? (19:36) Government Experiments Being Conducted on Foster Care Children (22:17) What’s the Truth About Diddy? (24:09) What’s the Truth About Hunter Biden’s Laptop? (25:09) What’s the Truth About January 6th? (28:07) What’s the Truth About the Assassination Attempt on Donald Trump? (31:26) Collum’s Prophetic Annual Reviews (41:01) The Vegas Shooting (54:16) The Global Political Kayfabe (58:17) What Exactly Is QAnon? (1:00:45) Are We Being Purposefully Distracted From Things That Actually Matter? (1:07:04) The Real Dangers of AI (1:09:44) Wildfires and Directed Energy Weapons (1:13:43) The Censorship Regime’s Evolution (1:19:45) The Real Way to Fix American Universities (1:31:27) The Problem With Affirmative Action and SAT (1:39:16) We’re in a Catastrophic Economic Crisis (1:54:15) The Housing Crisis (2:00:40) What Kind of Assets Should You Invest In? (2:11:17) How Can the Average Person Protect Against a Financial Crisis? Includes paid partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
An organic chemistry professor at Cornell argues that academics must break through into the broader culture, recounting his 'cancelled in 2020' experience and a 'kabuki' denouncement. He says, 'Cornell's not giving me any golf' and recalls warnings that 'the banking system's about to collapse,' later hosting 'the CEO of Morgan Stanley' who 'spent two hours talking about the catastrophe that we were in the middle of in February '9.' On COVID, he asserts 'the Pfizer papers, which are papers written about the clinical trials in the VAERS database, show huge number of problems' and, 'I think it killed a lot of people, and they knew it.' He calls 'democracy's greatest hope and worst enemy' and notes 'There are no rules' while adding 'the deep state realized they were losing control of the narrative.' He critiques university funding and DEI, predicts a market correction, and favors gold and energy as hedges.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Very few college professors do what college professors are supposed to do, which is kind of break through outside campus into the the conversation among smart people about what the world is about. And in other words, they don't they don't kind of influence the broader culture directly, and you do and you're an organic chemistry professor. I how Are you allowed to do this at Cornell? Are you allowed to kind of opine on economics, social policy, foreign policy? Like, what are your administrators saying when you do this? Speaker 1: I don't know if it's generally true, but Cornell's not giving me any golf. The only problem I had with Cornell and we talked, know, we had breakfast and we talked a little bit about I think my colleagues wish I would shut up, but but they don't tell me to shut up, although, you know, they've told me to stay on. I have kind of an intellectual Tourette syndrome where Stay in your lane. Well, I'll be in the middle of class. I can march of o seven. In the middle of class, no warning, I blurred out the banking system's about to collapse. I'd written about it in o two, but I turned I said, I think it's about to collapse. Speaker 0: This is an organic chemistry class? Speaker 1: An organic chemistry class. I and they looked at me and I just said, look, I think the entire banking system's going down the tubes now. And it took another year, year and a half to Speaker 0: Did they say that's not a related discipline? What are you Speaker 1: talking about? No. No. Gave me guff for that. What was entertaining about that particular Tourette's like outburst is that I had the same kids in an honors thesis course two years later in the first lecture, one lecture a week, the first lecture I said, didn't I warn you? This is February. So didn't I warn you that that the banking system was gonna collapse? I said they said, yeah, you did. And I said, did your econ professors tell you that? They said no. And I said, what are those assholes paid for? In this thesis course, I used a lot of guest lectures, so my first guest lecturer was the CEO of Morgan Stanley Bank, and he had cut his teeth on mortgage backed securities and he spent two hours talking about the catastrophe that we were in the middle of in February '9. And and so so, yeah, I do occasionally go off the rails, but but now no one gives me grief. I got canceled in 2020. The closest you and I I've been following you for years, but the closest you and I actually came to actually meeting, but we didn't, was in 2020, I got canceled during the the height of cancel season. Right? Remember how it was happening all the time? And and the probability of me ending up being interviewed by you was pretty high because it was being I got canceled, and it was written up in the federal or some place like that. Speaker 0: And so we you canceled for? Speaker 1: Oh, it was a real crime against humanity. I supported the police. Oh, okay. It was one of those. Remember the guy got knocked over in Buffalo? Yes. A friend of mine, was doing a podcast with that Saturday, posted that late one night and said said, I think this is just appalling when the old guy got knocked over by the riot police. And I watched the video a couple times. I said, well, Chris his name is Chris Irons. I said, we can talk about it on Saturday, but but but I have no idea what he was doing there. So this is in a tweet. And I said I said he was poking riot police with something that looked kinda like a taser or something. Turns out in retrospect, it was a skimmer. And and and so I said it looks like kind of a self inflicted problem to me. Right? I didn't say he deserved it or anything like that, but it it is self inflicted if you poke a riot policeman and he knocks you over. Right? That that that's pretty much, you know Yeah. It's a Darwin Award. Speaker 0: Bears and riot riot policeman shouldn't be poked. Speaker 1: Turns out, what I learned that night was the cancel culture is not organic. It was it was incredibly astroturfed. The speed with which it happened was staggering. It was automated. Yeah. Within within twenty or thirty minutes, email boxes all across the administration were filling with complaints. It it went everywhere. I had to lock down my Twitter feed fast and and things like that. And and then Cornell was on sort of a war footing trying to figure out what to do. Now they're trying to figure out what to do just because they wanted the fire to be put out. Right? So they weren't against me in that sense. It was during the lockdown, so I didn't I didn't actually there was the advantage of everyone was locked down, but I wasn't sure Antifa wouldn't show up, and we know that's not organic either. Right? And so and so and so I slept with some loaded guns, I was emotionally ready to blow someone's brains out. Speaker 0: How many tenured professors in Ivy League schools have guns at home? I don't know. Speaker 1: Just you? I would not well, there's probably more. We have natural resources department, stuff like that, and those guys probably use the resources available. But the the one mistake Cornell made, they made two mistakes. First of all, it turns out the guy was a grifter. The whole thing was faked, and there's there's video footage of him telling people he's gonna go get knocked down and people yelling at him for doing that. It turns out the blood that came out of his ear I've talked to physicians. They said it would never come out like that. There's pictures of him on the gurney talking on his cell phone behind the ambulance. The the press couldn't find him in any of the hospitals. He made a lot of money on GoFundMe. So he he grifted his while he was supposedly in a coma, his Twitter feed, which had all sorts of fuck the police kind of comments, was being scrubbed very quickly. And and so so the turn of the whole thing in retrospect was a grift, so I was dead right. Cornell was on a wharf and trying to figure out how stop this. There's graffiti all over the campus and stuff, and so they made two mistakes. One is at no point did someone from Cornell reach out and say, how are you doing? Right. Because I got North Carolina got canceled and he killed himself. Right. I'm not gonna kill myself. It was unpleasant. I I would admit that. Speaker 0: How long had you been at Cornell at that point? Speaker 1: Oh, that would have been forty years. Speaker 0: Forty years. So you Right. Speaker 1: Plus four years as an undergrad. So, you know, Speaker 0: so spent forty four years at Cornell at that point. So not a newcomer. Speaker 1: No. And and by the way, the guy who was the provost at the time was a friend of mine. He he was he I knew him from the day he got to Cornell. He's now the president and it's useful. So when I I I told I I knew I was coming here and I asked a trustee, gonna I'm be talking to Tucker, is there anything? And you'd like me to somehow get out there, not that I'm gonna be there talking, man, but I it'd stupid to to miss it. And I sent a quick email to the president and said, is there anything? And he gave me a couple bullets, but they were obvious. They were the obvious things. And the second mistake they made is eventually they put together some and the Daily Sun was doing what I called the daily column where where they published an article about what an asshole I was. Right? And they'd write an article about the football team and get the NSA, by the way, did we mention columns and asshole? Right? That sort of thing. So so they they finally wrote a letter denouncing me, and it was signed interestingly by the president, who I didn't really like that much, that president, the provost who's a friend of mine, which was ironic, the chief of police, which was super ironic, and a couple other administrators who was missing was one of our deans, the dean of arts and sciences, who didn't sign it. He would have been an obvious signer, and he once said to me, what good is tenure if you don't have free speech? Now they weren't trying to hurt me. They were just trying to put out a fire and to put it out. So to to in that sense, they did the right thing. Speaker 0: Do they call and tell you they were gonna denounce you before the Speaker 1: No. And and by the way, know a number of trustees at this point, and and they all said they should have just shut up. So that was a mistake. More recently, a guy named Rickman, I think it was, you know, made that statement about it being exhilarated that Israel got attacked. Right? And he shouldn't have said that. Right? That was stupid. But but what people don't understand is that universities are this funny combination of free speech and academic freedom. We're supposed to foster speech, and that means dumb speech. That means sometimes hostile speech. Right? You know that drill. And and then the president denounced him, same president, the one I didn't really like, the one who denounced me. And she said this is only the second time I've denounced something a faculty member said. I go, yeah. I was the first. Hate to brag, but we're Speaker 0: pretty confident this show is the most vehemently pro dog podcast you're ever gonna see. We can take or leave some people, but dogs are non negotiable. They are the best. They really are our best friends. And so for that reason, we're thrilled to have a new partner called Dutch Pet. It's the fastest growing pet telehealth service. 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Your dogs, your cats, and your wallet will thank you. What about the the then provost, now the president, who was your friend who denounced you? Did that affect your friendship? Speaker 1: No. Not a bit. They were just trying to put out a fire, and I was ready for the fire to be put out. What helped is several trustees wandered in the president's office and said, don't even think about doing something stupid here. So I had one day I put out a tweet talking about how lovely Cornell is. Cornell is a phenomenal institution, so so my loyalty to Cornell was painting my vision, but Cornell is not like the other Ivies. It's not Harvard, it's not Princeton. It is in the middle of this idyllic setting with we have 200 gorges. The people at Cornell are self selected. They're the ones who want to live here, right? If there was a college in in in your neighborhood, it would be filled with people who love the outdoors. It would be filled with people who like this way of life. Right? Cornell has that. And so and by the way, it's ranked number one in a critical category. It has more top 10 ranked departments than any school in the country. And and and that's because we have so many different things going on here. So it's it's a very special place. Speaker 0: So the the letter denouncing you was really just kabuki. I mean, was Speaker 1: It was kabuki. Yeah. It was it was tried to just put out the fire, it did. And and it I I paid a price. I lost a consulting gig at Pfizer because of it, because I was now a Nazi, you know, Speaker 0: and and Wait. Pfizer didn't stand by you? Speaker 1: I had consult I had consult there for twenty years, and they were going to Zoom consulting. And Pfizer doesn't need a controversial consultant either. So they just cleared the deck as well. So I don't hold it again. I hold against what I hold against Pfizer is the vaccine. I don't hold the guys I consulted with at Pfizer were great guys And Pfizer, they were trying to get their job done right, stuff like that. Speaker 0: Why do you, as an organic chemist, why do you hold the vaccine against them? Speaker 1: Because I think it killed a lot of people, and they knew it. I read the I I so I started writing about COVID right away. You can imagine, right, as scientists. I started networking. I started trying to figure it out. I'm in a group called Doctors for COVID Ethics for four years where we had every major anti vaxxer on the planet go through this. Speaker 0: Wait. So you're a consultant to Pfizer. You're a pretty famous, probably one of the most famous organic chemists in the country. So if you say the Pfizer COVID vaccine killed a lot of people, it can't be dismissed as crank talk. Speaker 1: Well, it could be because I'm not a vaccine expert. I'm an organic chemist. So I have certain technical skills that probably helped me borrow, and it's the genetics major as an undergrad that helps me. I don't use the biochem or the genetics, but it allows me to sort of read stuff. Speaker 0: But you think it killed a lot of people? Speaker 1: Well, the Pfizer papers, which are papers written about the clinical trials in the VAERS database, show huge number of of problems. Right? And and so our our the doctor for COVID ethics, we had every famous anti vaxxer. One of the first ones I I went to, it was Bobby Kennedy, we had you you name it. You name an anti vaxxer. You name the Malones, the Ryan Coles, the Bryan Artis's, the the you you can go on and on and on. They all went through this this group, and and we talked about things. Three or four years became the Speaker 0: Is anyone keeping track of how many Americans were killed by it? Speaker 1: Well, it's very hard because, first of all, every flu death got absorbed into the COVID stats. So flu disappeared, which can't be true. And if it did because we're locked down, then how'd we all get COVID? Right? So there's now studies coming out from other countries because we have too many too many people who will look very bad when this data comes out. But the Japanese, for example, have come out and said some very strong things about what didn't happen. The head of the Japanese medical system, I think, came out and said that you could correlate the number of deaths with the number of shots. Right. And so now that the gag order has been released, scientific studies are making it into the literature and there's already thousands. It's got to be one Speaker 0: of the great man made disasters of our lifetimes. Speaker 1: The lockdown too. I think you mentioned or someone did in one of your podcasts about the travesty, maybe it was Walter, about the travesty of locking down. You show me you you tell me how old a kid is and I can tell you what subjects he does not or she does not know. So if you were studying trigonometry the year that everything's locked down, you don't know trigonometry at all. We pretended to teach them, they pretended to learn, nothing happened. Speaker 0: And do you see that now? Speaker 1: Well, you could see it going through the system. So, for example, our first year grads who were taking organic chemistry went during lockdown, when they showed up, they were very weak in organic chemistry. Yeah, You can see it. So think of the poor kid who's five years old trying to learn how to read and write and everything through a mask. Right? That that that and and there's imprinting periods. Right? There's periods where you learn to read and write or or you're kind of in trouble. And so we we it was disastrous. It was absurd. And the whole thing was done by Fauci. But how could and our Zoom group, by way, had had Scott Atlas. And so I asked Scott. I said, Scott, was it malicious? Fauci and Birx? Did what they do as malicious? And I think it was. I mean, I think there's evil forces behind those two, but he took a different tactic. He said, you cannot fathom how stupid those two are. That was his answer. He said, Fauci never gave a scientific argument. Never. And he said, one day this is astonishing. Said, one day, this is all recorded, so I'm not, you know, talking behind his back. This is there is a recording on the Internet with us. He says one day he walks in with a scientific paper that Atlas had read, and so he's thinking, woah, Fauci is actually gonna say something scientific. Fauci went to say encephalomyelitis. Now, if you work at the seven eleven, you might stumble on that one, but if you're head of the entire health organization, you shouldn't. And he said he boxed it so bad it was unintelligible, and Atlas said, come again? What did you just say? And Fauci wouldn't repeat it. He said Birx was yanking shit off the Internet, making pie charts, having not a clue what it meant. Speaker 0: Not a clue. That's terrifying. Speaker 1: Now but you've heard all that Chris from Atlas, though, he didn't speak up, I don't think. Fauci. Atlas. I think he sat there. Speaker 0: Can I ask you to back up just a moment, though? So you're describing now incompetence, but you alluded earlier to malice. What do you think the dark forces behind Birx and Fauci were? Speaker 1: Well, I think they first of all, they love the fact we're talking about whether it came out of a lab in Wuhan because that way we're debating whether to blame the Chinese or not, right, when in fact I think it came out of a lab probably in North Carolina. A number of guys have tracked both the the disease and and the vaccine back years before it showed up on our dinner plate. I I think low level of malice would be Wait. You think it came out of Speaker 0: a lab in North Carolina? Speaker 1: Yeah. Ralph Barack. Yeah. He you can follow a guy named David Martin has followed the patent trail, and an artificial organism can be patented, not a natural one. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And this you can follow the patent trail on COVID, and and and you can follow vaccine patent trail. Again, it's watch it get moved around, move from point a to point b. Speaker 0: If it was created in North Carolina, how did it get to Wuhan, and what Because was Speaker 1: we were funding we were funding research in Wuhan because we were not allowed to do game of gain of Sorry. I keep capping the table. Speaker 0: Oh, it's alright. This is a topic that deserves some table topping. Speaker 1: I I I've done podcasts where I have headphones, and I have four three Boston terriers and four, and they snore. I can't hear them because my headphones are noise dampening. And then I listen to podcast and hear this humongous amount of snoring behind me, so I'm aware of background noise. Speaker 0: You didn't bring the terriers this morning. Speaker 1: I didn't bring the terriers, no. Speaker 0: So, but you I just wanna flush this out a bit. You think it was created or begun in North Carolina, then brought to Wuhan for? Speaker 1: To be elaborated, to be studied, to be so I think we took everything offshore because it got gain of function got banned in The US. But I don't think we banned it. There were something like 36 bio bioweapons labs in Ukraine Yeah. Of US origin. Yes. I So why is Ukraine perfect? Ukraine's perfect. To run a bioweapons lab, you need first world infrastructure. Yep. And third world people to test shit on. Ukraine's pretty much got that, right? Because Fauci, for example, in The United States when he had to do clinical trials, when one of his lower rank they'd go to they'd go to foster care. They would do clinical trials on foster children. What? Yeah, you got to read Kennedy's book. Yeah, he did an estimate. They used an estimate of 13,000, 14,000 foster kids to do clinical trials. They said the kids would figure out they're getting sick and they wouldn't wanna take the meds. Speaker 0: That's so that's like not Speaker 1: So I think five g's been been doing damage to people and killing people for many, many years. Yeah. Speaker 0: So we made a pledge only to advertise products that we would use or do use, and here's one that I personally used this morning. It's Liberty Safe. There's a huge one in my garage. It is the company that protects your valuables. High end safe lines represent the pinnacle of American made. They're made here in The US, pinnacle of American made security and craftsmanship. They're more than just safes. They are a safeguard. They've got seven gauge thick American steel, and they're beautiful. Any kind of pink color you want, polished hardware. We have one. They're really good looking. They do not detract from a room. They enhance a room. I keep my father's shotguns and all kinds of other things in there. You can keep jewelry, money, anything else that you wanna keep safe. When you put your belongings in a Liberty Safe, you can just relax. Safes come equipped with motion activated lighting, drawers for storage, locking bars, dehumidifiers, and up to one hundred and fifty minutes of certified fire resistance. You can customize them any way you want. They are the best. We highly recommend them. Visit libertysafe.com to find a deal or learn about how you can protect what matters most to you. Demand the best. Liberty safe. But to do clinical trials on foster kids, I thought after the Second World War when both the Japanese and the Germans were doing things like that Nuremberg Code? Well, exactly. It was codified there, but in for scientists, but for the rest of the world and certainly American culture, we were taught that testing potentially dangerous drugs on people without their full consent or on the weakest among us or, you know, euthanizing mental patients, whatever, all that was bad. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: I thought that was one of the big lessons of the second world war. Speaker 1: Well, as we both know, there are no rules. Speaker 0: Well, that's boy, is that the truth? Speaker 1: There are no rules. Right? There are none. There are rules for us, you and me, but there are subjects for which people could be thrown in prison. You know, a great example would be Diddy. So what happened with Diddy? I think what happened with Diddy is Diddy had a bunch of very incriminating tapes. I think, you know, Epstein, light, and and I think they arrested him to round it all up all the day, and I think they did it to get all the data away from Diddy because he was being sued in civil court. And the guilty party said, we gotta get it out of there before the civil court gets it. And so they arrest Diddy. What they just convict him of? Nothing. They could have put him away for twenty years based on what he did to Justin Bieber. Right? They didn't even get him on any of that. So it's a classic it's a classic case. I I know I sound like a nutcase, but, yeah, you've had a lot of nutcases on your shows. Speaker 0: I had a gun. Speaker 1: My brother is trying to dial me back. His day, they're gonna think you're a nutcase if you talk about all the things you think about, and I go, well, I think that ship has sailed. You know, as I said to Speaker 0: Well, I thought that was the whole point of academic research was the, you know, the predicate for it, the basis of it, is free thinking. Speaker 1: Well, but according to Douglas Murray, I'm not supposed to talk about it unless I'm an expert. Speaker 0: Well, you are a demonstrable expert in your area. I mean Speaker 1: Which is not Diddy. It's not Diddy. You're not Speaker 0: a tenured professor of Diddy studies at Cornell? We could have it. Speaker 1: You know, we do have subjects. Speaker 0: And So you think the point of arresting Diddy was to shut down inquiry into what Diddy was doing? Speaker 1: Get the data, right? Speaker 0: Well, that's clearly the point of the first Jeffrey Epstein arrest. Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's laptop. Speaker 0: Tell me your view of Hunter Biden's laptop. Well, Speaker 1: Sydney what's her name? Lawyer. Come on. Sydney Powell. Yep. Elite lawyer, now down a few notches because she worked for Trump and that always gets you in trouble. Yep. Said that if Hunter Biden's laptop were ever released no, if Anthony Weiner's laptop were ever released, the government would fall. Weiner's laptop had kill switches in it. I mean, that that that it it was filled with crap that wasn't supposed to be there. We never get to see it. Supposedly, nine cops watched the videos on on on Weiner's laptop. They had to keep leaving the room because they couldn't stand what they were seeing, and all nine are now dead. And there's names and faces and deadness. Right? They're they're real people. Now you can say, well, maybe they died for other reason. I go, but it's still nine cops. And, you know, it's like the five cops who died after January 6. Right? Four of them were suicides. Out of according to AI, there were about 80 cops really in the thick of things. Four of them died from suicide. I don't need any more information to wonder what the hell is going on there. That's one of those stand alone observations where I go, that's not right. The math of that doesn't work for me. I've got pictures of Ukrainian see, I'm going off topic. I've got pictures of you known Ukrainian operatives with with you're not gonna believe this with the QAnon shaman guy. I think I have the horns in January 6. At January 6. What is that all about? I've got videos Speaker 0: of That sounds totally normal. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I've got videos Speaker 0: It's a national guard a 100 yards away not doing anything. Totally normal. Speaker 1: Videos of John Sullivan. Right? The guy who was supposedly Antifa, but Antifa said, no. He's a fed. Don't talk to him, who then filmed Ashley Babbitt getting shot. This guy's getting around. What's your image of an Antifa person? Lost soul, tattoos everywhere, right? No meaning in life. Right? Yeah. And no no path forward, really. I mean, these are nighs. Speaker 0: These are society's right. Speaker 1: If they're real, that is. If they're Speaker 0: legit real. But, I mean, if Speaker 1: you look at the mugshots Speaker 0: of Antifa arrest or the people who came to my house, the Antifa there, I mean, these are, you know, obviously, I disagree. They threaten my family. I don't like them and all that, but you also feel like these are, like, one step above homeless. Like, these are Right. Losers. Speaker 1: Right. And and so if he's on Tifa, it's really odd that he was a nationally ranked cyclist. What I know about nationally ranked anythings is their lives have purpose. Now there's a mugshot you did you follow this Patriot Front story? I'm really this this is now the helmet's on, the leash to the jungle gym is on. The Patriot Front guys, those guys who'd stomp around looking like neo Nazis who also were buff and had no pot bellies and covered their faces, get arrested and they're handcuffed with their backpacks still on and their their megaphone still over their shoulders. And and and and then I saw mugshots of them. Not a single tattoo. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: No tattoos. These are neo Nazis. Not a single tattoo. Speaker 0: They didn't have like waffen SS lightning No. Bolts on their Speaker 1: Swastikos. You know? Right? So so so we are in this big Walter Kernish. We're in this made for the Internet plot. Walter is great in his description of the I've been tracking the Manjoni story. It's not the right story. There's something wrong. And I Walter laid it out. Now what Walter didn't say is who's behind him. Speaker 0: That's obviously the question. I mean, you can look at all of these different stories, particularly the acts of violence, which are because they are acts of violence are, you know, examined much more closely than any other kind of act. And it, like, doesn't it doesn't make any sense. I mean, the the shooting of Trump a year ago in Butler, Pennsylvania is Speaker 1: just so sense. Everything do you know what I just read the other day? The guy who shot Thomas Crooks right. There were bullets flying all over that place, but it was a catastrophically poorly set up defense of Trump. But the guy who shot Thomas Crooks was the same guy who organized the protection of Trump. And they said, Oh, you know, he didn't get convicted of anything, and other guys didn't. Go, Well, so the guy who was in charge of making sure that after the assassination was done, he popped the assassin, is somehow not getting prosecuted. Why am I not shocked? Speaker 0: So you're saying he was the Jack Ruby figure here? Speaker 1: He was the Jack Ruby figure. Yes. So so what was odd about that story? Well, first of all, all the news agencies were there. This was a totally irrelevant rally in the an irrelevant place, Butler, Pennsylvania, and there's a stranger story there. And again, I I I just pick up these shards and sometimes they fit together into a story and sometimes it's just put it in your head, keep it there until you get more detail. There's a guy sitting behind Trump named Joseph Fusca. Fusca is his last name. I've seen him before many times. He was by the QAnon guys, which are a bunch of whack jobs, said to be you're not gonna believe it. Said to be John F. Kennedy junior waiting to come back and save the world, and I'm going, oh, you guys have lost your minds finally. You've really gone. It doesn't matter that that's a total crock. Fusca is this guy, and they say now his name is Fusca and whatever, you know, blah blah blah blah blah, But but he's one of supposedly JFK Jr. In disguise. Fusca was there sitting right behind Trump. I go, of all the rallies, there he is. Who is he? I don't know. And what's really interesting is Trump gets shot, everyone's reacting and Fusca's not. And then there's two pieces Speaker 0: of footage. You say you've seen him before, you've seen him in photographs before? Speaker 1: Oh, he had been talked about. I I've dug down some deep rabbit holes and find this guy. So one of the things you discover, you know this as well as anyone, you you think you're going down a rabbit hole and you discover Gobekli Tepe. You get down the rabbit hole and you go, this thing that this there's a there's an entire ecosystem down here that people don't know exists. Once once you it's like it's like once you you you ask, how did Kennedy get killed? And you go, oh, boy, you know, that that's troubling. Right? And then Building 7, which you talked with Ron Johnson, who, by the way, was in our Doc Sum group. Right? What I'm talking we had everyone. We had everyone. Once you got on one or two of these and you go, I I I can't trust anything. And I'm I work in a field where you're supposed to be able to get the facts and say, now here's an odd story. A friend of mine's binding all my annual reviews that I write. I write one blog a year. I've been thinking about why. Speaker 0: And I Can can you just pause and describe what that is? That that's really the reason I wanted to talk to you was because your interview is, you know, well known among people who are paying attention. What is it, and why do you do it? So the people trying to wreck our civilization want you to be passive. They want you weak so they can control you. Weakness is their goal. No. Thanks. Our friends at Beam, a proud American company, understand that our country can only be great if its people are strong. And that's why they've created a new creatine product to help listeners like you stay mentally sharp and physically fit. People like to mock creatine. 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Speaker 1: So stopped paying 100% attention to chemistry and started on the side looking at markets when I became a boomer with some wealth, and I started paying and I became I was a tech bull. And then by '98, I realized the markets were in trouble. I'd read enough books, read enough blogs, read enough articles, and and so and then that naturally led me to politics because if you don't understand politics, you don't understand economics. And in around o seven, I wrote a I used to on this chat board I was at, I'd write a summary at the end of the year, and part of it was to to to make sure that my fairly extreme views weren't costing me serious pain and suffering. And and and instead of getting 200 clicks because this group is about 200 of us talking, It went to, like, 4,000. I go, what happened? And he said, oh, I put it on my blog. Someone told me that. So so in o nine, I I decided to do it seriously. I thirty years of investing. So I wrote up this this thing. I said, thirty years of investing from from the cheap seats was the title. And it went wild, actually. And part of it was because because I'd been highly successful as a rank amateur through the nineties as a tech bull. I made 700% on WorldCom and then got out. Right? I made 700% on Dell Warner Lambert. I I thought I was a genius. And and so I had years where I made over a 100% without leverage. And and and and then I got out and I got out due to Y two k, which turns out to be a grift. Yeah. It took me decades to figure that out. I thought I just blew it. But no, a Silicon Valley selling software and hardware, and I can make that stuff every month, but it's not worth it. And then and then so so I started paying attention to politics, and then I just went deeper and deeper down rabbit holes. See I know I'm reading about Putin in 2012, trying to understand what's going on there and stuff like that. So so I just kind of naturally got on rabbit holes. Now, you can't market a blog worse than writing one a year, right? That's about as bad as you get, and I don't charge for it. So there's that. And then I realized, though, the reason it works for me is if I wrote a blog once a week, most of them would be garbage because imagine how many blogs would have written about how Trump and Elon are best friends. Right? Right. And now it seems irrelevant that I'd be writing about how Trump and Elon are enemies, and then a month from now it'll be irrelevant because they'll be best friends again. You're right? And so you could I could not write a weekly blog, and so what I do is is I my writing once a year gives me a long time to think about. So I get the idea and then I sort of watch and go, oh, look at that. That's a puzzle piece right there. So it essentially is book length. 250, 300 pages every fall. Speaker 0: Don't charge for it. Speaker 1: And I don't and I you also can't write it in March. That's not a year in review. So I usually end up with about 700 pages of links and notes. And if I see something we talked before about about using trite metaphors, you know, how we both hate it. But once in a while I'll see a way to insult a person. I'll go, Oh, I'm saving that. Right? Now, the other reason that's really great. Speaker 0: Where do people find it? Speaker 1: It's published at Peak Prosperity, and it's my pinned tweet, so it stays up there all year and then until I publish the next one. And it gives me the chance to collect the information, to ponder what's going on that year, and then and some things become irrelevant, so I don't write about them. Some things are not some things become trite, right? But I think my analysis of the twenty sixteen election, for example, is really good. The prophetic line. I was watching BET. Please don't get me to explain why I'm watching BET and black entertainment today or something, whatever. Television. And some burly black guy is talking about Trump, and he says, forget the messenger. Listen to the message. Listen to that. I'm going, holy moly. Right? Turns out he was the head of the end of of the new Black Panther Party. I go, Trump just got endorsed by the Black Panthers. So I and then I saw Jimmy Brown, the running back, say he will be a president of the people, and and all of a sudden and so I wrote, It might just be a flicker, but I think the black community is moving to the right. And boy was that ahead of its time. And so what I won't do is write about something that I was writing about. Why? Yeah. The other problem I face is that I don't write about stuff I'm an expert. I write about stuff I know nothing. So when I wrote about I've been following Putin, when the Ukraine war came, first thing I noticed, I bet you noticed it too, it wasn't a war. It was a police action, and they weren't killing people. They were moving troops across the border. They were talking to Ukrainians. They were and I kept saying to my wife, this not a war. You see some grandmother going, oh, this is just really terrible, you know, and I'm going, that's not a war. You wanna see a war? Look at Baghdad day one. Right. That's a war. That's what a war looks like. Right? You'd see an explosion from 20 miles away. You wouldn't know what blew up. Right? Like, my wife thought I was nuts. She goes, it's not a war. It's not a war. Well, it became a war because, as you and I both know, NATO wanted a war. And so it morphed from being a police action, which I think Putin was trying to throw a fastball past NATO's chin and saying back off on this And whole NATO and so when I wrote about that, I found about 20 to 40 guys who are trying to get it right, which includes you and includes guys like Max Abramson. Do I know do I have that right? Glenn Greenwald, the guy who died, what's his name, the guy who got killed by the Ukrainian Speaker 0: Gonzalo Lira. Gonzalo Lira. American who was murdered by the Ukrainian government. Speaker 1: And we could have gotten him out with a phone call and we chose not to 100%. Because the narrative was Putin's bad. Ukraine's a bunch of really nice guys, super nice guys since a democracy. What a crock of shit. That was a lie from head to toe. We wanted a war. We still want I have I have intelligence friends too, not like you, but I have them. And and I was talking to him the other day. I think he likes to talk to me because he can talk to me about these subjects. And in his universe, I'm the only guy he can talk to for which he's he doesn't have to worry cause everyone else in his world is connected, everyone else in his world. So I think he liked to have real honest conversations. One day we're on the phone, he says, do you do signal? I go, yeah. So we went to signal, he said someone was listening to us. Speaker 0: Boy. There's a lot of that. Speaker 1: There's a lot of that. Speaker 0: Yeah. I know. Speaker 1: So there's always a narrative. There's always one narrative, and then we're now in an era where you only get to talk about that narrative. You know that. I know that. You and I, we're just mutually. Speaker 0: Yeah. And and the the penalties for straying from the story are You get fired. Are real. Yeah. Totally. I mean, whatever. I there's been no age in human history where telling the truth, the real truth is rewarded. So Speaker 1: don't think that we where should you be first really won me over, you and I agree that when you were young, you were a punk. Fact that you're so proud of the metamorphosis is great. It may have come before this, but where I noticed it was the Las Vegas shootings where is we kinda talked a little bit of breakfast. Here's the funny story. They interviewed that night a guy named Mike Krohnk, and Mike Krohnk tells Speaker 0: The night of the shooting. The night Speaker 1: of the shooting. Speaker 0: That was 2017 maybe? Speaker 1: I can't remember. Yeah. And Mike told this story. He did look very emotional, which I found a little odd. I, by the way, think all the shootings within an error bar are not what they appear to be. I'll take it all the way back to Columbine if you want. But Mike Krohn talks about his friend getting shot three times in the chest from hundreds of yards away, and and later a marksman said, not possible. Too much spray. Sniper would be required to hit a guy three times. And and and the guy was just doing this. Right? And Mike says his friend stuck his fingers in the bullet his own bullet holes to stop the bleeding. I'm going, now you're lying. Why is Mike lying? Right away, red flag. Why is Mike lying? Speaker 0: And who is he, by the way? Speaker 1: Well, that's a great question. So Mike then finishes how they put him on a cart and wheeled him out. Speaker 0: May may I just ask why I'll tell you in Speaker 1: a minute. Speaker 0: Why did you know he was lying when he said his friend put his own fingers in Speaker 1: Because you don't you don't get shot three times in the chest and provide your own health care. Speaker 0: Fair. Fair. Right? We thought this through when we started this podcast a year ago, we decided we're never advertising anything that we or people on our staff don't use, period. We're only partnering with companies that we agree with and endorse actually in our personal lives. So we want to announce a new partnership with a survival company we trust most. Last Country Supply is the name of our collaboration. Last Country Supply. I have a big surplus of survival food from that great company. If you get a bucket of food with a twenty five year shelf life, 2,000 calories a day, potatoes, rice, bread, drinks, you feel a lot better. Let's say there's an EMP attack or civil disturbance and you don't know what could happen in the future, You are prepared, and you are protecting your family with Last Country Supply products. So head to lastcountrysupply.com to shop for our new collection. Bulk up now. There is no scenario where you will regret being prepared. Speaker 1: So then, like YouTube, see it rolls over fifteen seconds, and then it goes to the next YouTube. And we're we're watching Vegas like you watch 09:11. Right? It was was really 500 people. It it is the biggest shooting since probably Gettysburg. Yes. Right? When was the last time you heard a gun antagonist say, remember Vegas? We gotta get rid of guns. Speaker 0: Never. Speaker 1: Never. Right. And you know why. So it rolls to the next interview, and it's Mike Kroc, new network, same guy. He tells the same story. Now he's looking a little more emotional, and his story changes just a little, just a little around the edges. And then it rolls to the next interview and there's Mike Kroc again. And I go, why? You got 22,000 people and why are you interviewing Mike Kroc? And then there were oddities that were showing up like some lady walking through the crowd saying you're all going to die tonight and they wilt, They carted her away and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Weird stuff. And so I tried to figure out who my crank was. He's just some hick from Alaska. Right? He's just some hick from Alaska. After the fact, I looked and just picture him holding an elk by the horns, you know, that he shot. The next day, the the head of the police said there's no way one guy did it. The following day he said one guy did it. Takes a long time to show one guy did it, right? That's that's something you don't know. There's a lot of debris before you figure that out. There's now a documentary called Route 41, so I dug into this. I noticed is you stayed with a story for about two weeks maybe, and you were bringing up and Coulter jumped in, you know, Paddock was making money. How? Playing video poker. That's his that's the way he's making a living. That's like saying I'm a professional crackhead. Speaker 0: And Speaker 1: and then what happens is there was shooting all over the place. There was shooting everywhere. Speaker 0: In the city that day? Speaker 1: In the city that night. And so now there's if you don't believe me, there's this documentary called Route 41, and they got stuff I didn't know about, but they also got stuff that that I so it's kind of an answer key for me to use academic terms. And if you watch Route 41, you will see there were shooters everywhere. There are cop cameras showing shooters. Then remember the guy got shot in the leg up on the floor where Paddock was? Speaker 0: Yes. The the hotel boy. Speaker 1: Or something. Right? Some some illegal with two Social Security numbers. Hello. And and and and then afterwards, reporters tried to get to his house. His house was being protected by by cars. They had no license plates. And and then all of sudden he goes to Mexico and when asked, well, where did he go? They said, well, he was planning a trip to Mexico. So when I wrote it by, I said, oh, by the way, Jesus, when you get back, could you stop in? We've got some questions for you. Right? And then he comes back and he does one interview on Alan DeGeneres. And Alan introduced him saying, and he's there with a handler I had already seen. I'm going, wait a minute, guy, I've been seeing that guy a lot, that other guy. So Jesus is looking at his feet. His name isn't Jesus, but it's something like that. Alan introduced saying, this is the only interview you're gonna do and you gotta get it off your chest. I'm going, oh, shit. Here we go. And then and then and then the handler's doing all the talking. Jesus is looking at his feet. And then we never hear about Jesus again. Probably he's in some shallow grave somewhere because he's too inconvenient. But Speaker 0: I tried to interview him at the time. Speaker 1: Really? Speaker 0: Yes. Couldn't get to him. He drove to Mexico from Vegas. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: Two of them did. Yeah. Following an escort. Yeah. Then he came back, and, yeah, I I tried my hardest. Speaker 1: Alan works for man the company that owns Mandalay. Speaker 0: His handler. Speaker 1: Yeah. No. No. Ellen DeGeneres. Speaker 0: Ellen I'm so sorry. Speaker 1: Yeah. And so so so they're buttoning it down. Now what you see from Route 41 video is there were just an enormous amount of chaos. There's enormous number numbers of shooters. Even that night, were seeing videos from cab drivers saying they're shooting over here, they're shooting over there. Was and and and there would be some chaos, but there's way too much. There's guys who took audios and said, here's here. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. You hear that that that that that that. So you could hear multiple guns, the whole thing. So then what happened? Mike Krohnck. I start reading trauma surgeons saying there's something wrong with the story. You know, if you get hit with, you know, what was it, AR 15 or something? Speaker 0: You And a three zero eight. Gonna you're gonna die Speaker 1: out there. You're gonna bleed out right there. Even if it doesn't hit a major artery, just gonna turn your leg to jello. Speaker 0: Breathe chest wounds from a rifle? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so what would he look like? And so then I saw an interview of a of a young woman and she's sitting there in a chair in the hospital and they're interviewing her. I'm going, you look pretty perky. And and and then Mike Kroc with a news crew goes in and interviews his friend. Now, first and foremost, know HIPAA says you ain't bringing a news crew into a hospital room. Second, we know three shots of the chest he'd be in the ICU. The only way you know he's alive is that there'd be a beeping on the screen and he'd have hoses coming out of every orifice and he would look dead. And so they take the news crew and they interview his friend. He's got a nasal cannula. A nasal cannula. So I'm sitting there thinking, oh, so you're you're talking with three holes in your chest. What are you sticking your fingers so the air doesn't come flying out of your chest holes? Right? And then I notice the screen's not even plugged in. Now what is Mike Cronk now? He's a state senator from Alaska. In Alaska. I think he's a state level state senator. What? Yeah. Who's the chief of police? He became governor of Nevada or something. Right? So so, again, so there's a guy named John Cullen who did an analysis of the shooting, and his conclusion Speaker 0: A relative? Speaker 1: A relative? Yeah. No. No. No. No. No. This is all different. John worked for Oracle. He's some on the spectrum code head. He also analyzed the Butler shooting, the audios of the Butler shooting. Speaker 0: He's an on the spectrum code head. Speaker 1: He's on the spectrum code head. He he he sort of bears down and grabs on something a little too firmly, I think, but but but he brings Speaker 0: his on the spectrum code heads. Speaker 1: Yeah. I know. And he there was pretty good evidence that a lot of the shooting was coming from helicopters behind the Mandalay, and he tracked the transponders turning on and off behind the Mandalay. The story was that Mohammed bin Salman was on the Top Floor. Speaker 0: The crown crown prince of ruler Saudi Arabia. Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. A guy who lots of people would like to kill. And his theory is is that the Saudis tried to flush him out of there, and on the way out, they would camp him. Now they blew it. If that's the story, they blew it. I think the helicopter idea is not bad. But I I did a couple podcasts with John, and I said, John, but what about all the shooting on the ground? And John was kinda dismissive. I go, you can't dismiss it. You can't let that stuff go. Your models gotta include that. But it occurred a year later, Mohammed remember when Khashoggi got killed? What was his name? Jamal Khashoggi. Now a non Khashoggi is one the most famous CIA guys on the planet. Jamal Khashoggi is one who got diced up and fed to the camels. Yeah. Now he's a New York Times reporter. I think he was also CIA. Speaker 0: Washington Post columnist. Yeah. And he was killed in Speaker 1: In the embassy. In Speaker 0: Istanbul, I believe. Speaker 1: Okay. Supposedly, on the anniversary of the Vegas shootings, supposedly Mohammed bin Salman had a party, locked the doors, and showed a video of him getting sliced up and said to the royal sitting in the room, don't even think about it. Now when I wrote about Khashoggi, everyone was having a cow over Khashoggi, right, when he got killed. I'm going, we're killing tens of thousands of Yemenis. We killed 5,000,000 people in The Middle East directly and indirectly due to our post nine eleven responses. Yes. Right? And I called them ODK, one dead Khashoggi. I said, it is insane to worry about one dead guy in a region of the world where people die for no reason all the time. Speaker 0: Who was at war with this his own government, the Saudi government? I mean, I'm, you know, I'm obviously not for vivisecting people, but I also think, like, they're yeah. There there's a scale of of evil, and starving kids is worse than what happened at Khashoggi. I agree with you. Speaker 1: Right. So so you were the only mainstream guy who I watched steadily on the story, staying with the Vegas shootings, noting that there's something wrong. Speaker 0: We got very hassled by law enforcement. Speaker 1: I'm Speaker 0: sure you did. Was you know, I worked at Fox News, obviously, at the time, and big supporters of law enforcement. I've always been a big supporter of law enforcement. We've never gotten hassled anywhere. Just the opposite. Oh, you work for Fox News. Oh my gosh. Of course. Speaker 1: Slow down. Official law enforcement Speaker 0: is what got you. Man. I mean, they blocked our camera position. Oh, yeah. They were totally opposed to us doing that. I've never had that experience. Speaker 1: So so let's stand the shootings just briefly. Uvalde. There's problems all over that shooting. Remember that shooting in Texas where the guy got Speaker 0: in Knew the knew the mayor. Speaker 1: Yes. There's problems all over the place because, first of all, there's something like 800 law enforcement guys within reach of the damn thing, and that 's a ton of, like, 5,000 people. And and then they didn't go in for seventy eight minutes or something. Go remember. Excuse me. You show me 10 cops, probably eight of them have kids. By all I'm right now, I'm reading a book called The Moral Animal. It's about human behavior. Yep. And and out of those eight, eight would have gone in and said, I don't care what you say. I'm going in. Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: You you give me a soccer mom. She's going in. Right? 100%. And then there was the mom who did go in, and her story was incoherent. Her story she came out and she said this and then she said this, and it was not consistent. I'm going, that's just a narrative thrown on top of it. Speaker 0: So what are we looking at here? So K FAB. What does that mean? Speaker 1: K FAB is something Eric Weinstein wrote about. He was asked to write an essay with a bunch of other scholarly types, and he said that politics was kayfabe, it was professional wrestling, and there's all these layers, there's all these tricks, it's way more sophisticated than people think, The way you get the way you engage the audience and you have some reality and some non reality and things change, and he he talked about politics being kayfabe. I I don't think anything you see can be interpreted literally and at face value. Now, what would Speaker 0: be the purpose, however? Well, Speaker 1: as I was telling you, a friend's binding all my annual reviews, and I will probably make a thousand dollars off this. I mean, is not getting rich. I'm paid probably 0.001¢ per hour pay for this task. I had to go back I've been proofing the drafts from previous years. And what I noticed about twenty thirteen, fourteen, fifteen is something's changed. And what's changed is you could get facts, and and you felt like you were getting and the stories would break, and they would stay that way, and and they wouldn't be shifting around. And you could say, okay. Here's what happened in here here, and this piece fits in here. And now you can't. Now it's like we talked about using trig metaphors. Here's one, but I really like it. It's like when your GPS starts randomly rerouting you and our GPS just keeps ramming, rerouting, rerouting, I go, I'm not taking that right turn now, you know, so you just boot the GPS, you break out your gasketeer and you figure out where And you're so we our GPS is rerouting us constantly. And and one of your guests, Mike Benz, who I occasionally chat with briefly, who's very impressive, and as as I've said, I don't know everything about him, and I don't mean just in a casual way, I think he's I think there's a complex story there, but right now he's saying the right stuff. He gave a talk one day where he talked about how around 2013 the so called deep state, which is a term I've tried to figure out where it came from, and I think the guy who gets the most credit is kind of Peter Dale Scott who wrote about drug trafficking, Berkeley professor, he called it deep politics, but I think it predates that, but that's where I get it from. He said the deep state realized they were losing control of the narrative. They had underestimated the Internet and social media. Exactly. And as a consequence, they had to get a hold of it completely. And so then this is where we're at. Now we thought Trump was going to save us. We thought Elon was going to save us. My Twitter feed is a dumpster fire. So instead of taking away data, they provide excess noise. So now so now instead of trying to suppress the signal, you just increase the noise. Speaker 0: I think that's very deep, and I think it points to the what's happening. I would think that's clearly true. Speaker 1: So what is the fact? That was the title last year's write up. What is the fact? Speaker 0: Yeah. It's it's impossible. You can't actually control the and you can't restrict the flow of information across the Internet. You debris out there. Speaker 1: Yeah. Right. So it's just like it's a like the the the pilots who who throw the debris out the back of the plane so that the guided missiles don't know what to Speaker 0: Of course. Exactly. Right. Right. Speaker 1: And and they also throw out debris so that so that then they can prove that it's not true so you feel like an idiot. Speaker 0: QAnon was clearly that. QAnon. Yeah. QAnon. What was QAnon? I don't know. I don't either. Speaker 1: I I avoid you know, I'd be listening to something and it would have useful information and all of a sudden then it would show the whole and here's Trump and his generals are gonna save the world. Speaker 0: No. Agree. Speaker 1: For Christ's sake. Speaker 0: But the interesting I never knew anything about QAnon. I never paid any attention at all. I have a good friend who I really admire, is much smarter than I am, who, because he is smarter than I am, took like a year to look into QAnon. What'd he get? I don't fully understand it, but here's what I understand is that, you know, some of the predictions of QAnon came true. I mean, it's a sophisticated thing. It's not just Speaker 1: Oh, I think it's Speaker 0: a bunch of ex spooks. For sure. It's not a, you know, bunch of college kids on No. 4chan or whatever they claim it was. Speaker 1: These are guys who are probably pissed that the system went bad. Speaker 0: It would the point of it and it's unclear, you know, who's behind it. I have some theories, but people I know actually, but but I don't know if they're true. But what I what is obvious to me is that it was it's a control mechanism. Mhmm. Trying to siphon off some of that energy and move it in a Speaker 1: Siphoning off the energy. Speaker 0: That's right. Less dangerous direction. Speaker 1: Right. Focus on Wuhan. Right? Focus on the lab in Wuhan. That's siphoning. It's all American politics. Speaker 0: Like, have a race war. Leave us alone as we loot your country. Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. It's if there's a meme out there, there's a joke where the king and his his right hand man, his chief of staff are looking at the angry townspeople. Some have pitchforks and some have torches, and the king says, don't you have to worry. You just convince the guys with the pitchforks or the enemies of the guys with the torches. Speaker 0: So you said that a couple times. Focus on Wuhan. I've I've fallen for that for that squirrel squirrel Wuhan thing. Speaker 1: Squirrel. Why A blind nut finds a squirrel. Speaker 0: That's funny. That's a rule. I'm stealing that. I'm sorry. Just making making a note. Speaker 1: That's an original. I never know if I heard it and forgot where I got it, but that Speaker 0: that's an original. It's the squirrel. What is that distracting you? Speaker 1: I think it is great. You put me in an asylum overnight. In an asylum overnight? Yeah. Yeah. My my my hotel's a former asylum. Is it really? Yeah. You didn't ask? No. Oh, yeah. It's a former asylum. I said, you finally got it right. Well, I Speaker 0: think there's there's wisdom here. Speaker 1: There is wisdom here. Speaker 0: What are they distracting us from by having us focus on Wuhan? Speaker 1: Well, huge amounts of grift. You had you interviewed Katherine Austin Fitz. Speaker 0: Yes. I've been blessed. A smart woman. Speaker 1: So I come out of nowhere. Have no credentials beyond those that I can create. Right? And I think one of the ways you created is by being truthful. Yes. And I know truth is everything to you. Speaker 0: I try to make it that. Speaker 1: And actually in this book, The Moral Animal, they say the reason we self delude is so that you can be truthful and deceive your opponent. That's what self delusion is. Speaker 0: Yes. And and I practiced a lot Speaker 1: of that. I've been adopted by some people who didn't have to adopt me. And so, for example, I'm tied with Steve Hanke, who's a famous economist, and and Catherine has been very supportive, and and and there's several dozen who who somehow have decided that that I'm worth their time and and and help me, And and so they're they're useful to chat with. They're useful to but but Catherine's story and a lot of people think Catherine's nuts. Right? But but she talks about the huge amount of resources that have been siphoned off and the tens of trillions of dollars of resources that have been I Speaker 0: know Katherine Austin Fitts you can disagree with her. She's not nuts. That's not true. Speaker 1: She's not what? Speaker 0: Nuts. Oh, no. I don't think she is nuts. No. That's right. No. No. A No. Grounded person. Speaker 1: Could have things wrong, but And that's totally I had a friend, another friend who I think is phenomenal, tell me that she's nuts and don't don't don't get near her. And I said, no. I don't think so. And and but we all can get sucked down into the rabbit hole to the point you can get out too. There are days where I wish, why don't you just go play golf? Yeah. Or yeah. Right now I'm on a my house is hanging off a 100 foot cliff looking west over Keuga Lake. I can literally throw rotten fruit off my deck and drop it down into the drink from I'll show you afterwards. I'll show you photos. It's the view is such that if there are places in the country where the view would cost $20,000,000, not in Ithaca, of course. And and and if people come and visit, they should. It's beautiful. I can't remember why I said that. That's probably You're saying Speaker 0: that people dismiss, you know, the the the few who are just committed to pursuing truth no matter what as crazy, and you gave Katharine Stott and Fitz as an example, and but you said you can actually go crazy Oh, yeah. Yeah. By looking too carefully into what actually happened. Speaker 1: Turns out broke the small New York State smallmouth bass record about three years ago, broke the New York State largemouth bass record last year, and I used to fish all the time when I was a kid, I haven't fished it. What's wrong with this picture? Well, if Speaker 0: you got smallmouth bass there, I think you need to fish it on a fly rod. I know. It'll totally change your life. Speaker 1: It's not a fly rod. It's a deep lake. It it's a Speaker 0: But she can catch them on the surface with a popper. And if you do, if you catch a sizable smallmouth on a popper on a fly rod, you know, it Speaker 1: I'm a 18 foot deep shoal guy. Sinking line. But but so, you know, my wife thought that I had fish removed from my thumbs because she never saw a picture of me that didn't have a fish hanging off my my hand, but I haven't fished it. Speaker 0: Because you're absorbed in trying to figure out what's happening. Speaker 1: Raising kids. I'm absorbed in other things. My wife has issues I gotta help her with, and and I I have this fear of buying a boat. Speaker 0: But you as someone who has taken, you know, ample intellectual energy and intelligence and focused it on trying to figure out what are we watching, which I think is like a fair way to describe what you're doing, like, what is this? What's the truth of it? Has that been worth doing? Speaker 1: That's the question. That is the question. And and there was a time where I thought if I could get to the truth, then then that would help in some way, but now it's not as clear. Speaker 0: Tell me what Well, Speaker 1: you know, now first of all, what is the truth? Right? The truth is now becoming very ambiguous. Last year, I wrote about the history of World War two. I did a mini Daryl Cooper. Yes. And it started when I read a book by Diana West, who would be good if you interviewed her. And it was it's this all revisionist history of World War two and you go, well, why would you wanna read that? Well, it turns out I think the story we got about World War two is all wrong. Speaker 0: I think that's right. Speaker 1: And and then I read about FDR, and FDR's right hand man was a Soviet spy. Speaker 0: Certainly was. Right? And and therefore Confirmed. Speaker 1: We should have been. One can make the argument we should have sided with Hitler and fought Stalin. Patton said that, so and and maybe there wouldn't have been a holocaust. Right? You know, there's a but but the the but Stalin was awful by any metric, and we we we weren't his ally. The story is that there were a few missing American soldiers at the end of World War two in Russian territory. Knew. 15 to 20,000 were missing, and we left them there. And then you read about Pearl Harbor. We all sort of know the Pearl Harbor stories, not what we're told, but I dug into that and you find out the pro we knew to the morning that Pearl Harbor was Stalin going get was going to be attacked. He wanted us to take the Japanese office flank and FDR's right hand man was okay with that because he was a Soviet spy, right? Then I read about FDR and the Great Depression, find out that every single penny he spent trying to help forgot Amity Schleys, the forgotten man, was spent to buy votes every last penny. He was a sociopath, and every the only thing he could do is lie. He was a compulsive liar. His his inner circle had to constantly cover for his lying, and and and and and the only thing he's used for now is every time you want to grow government, you cite FDR. And and so so I've read a half a dozen books that sort of went at these different angles and wrote about it. So I start out knowing nothing and then I write about it and I try to write to learn, which is the most terrifying part of AI by the way. If you take out the writing, you take out you take out the thought. Completely agree. The other thing that scares me about it, boy, they're a squirrel. AI's gonna make this system very unforgivingly brittle. I'm I'm not worried as much about the authoritarian slant that Elon occasionally talks about, which might be just to fake us out. Who knows? I am worried that we're gonna reach a point where, you know, when everything everything computer does is binary. So you go to the grocery store, you slip your credit card in, it says you're good to go or didn't work. Swipe it again. Didn't work. Sorry. You're out of here. Right? They debank people. This is a big problem. What happens when everything is so AI'd up that that that there's no person anywhere with an earshot who can help you at all. No one who can say, okay. Let me let me get this for you. Speaker 0: Right. There's been a misunderstanding or there's There Speaker 1: yeah. Speaker 0: I had a few other nuance required. Speaker 1: Happened on the other day on a credit card where I was talking to a lady, and it kept sending me in these loops, and she finally straightened out. But what happens when the code is being written by computers so there's no human who understands the code? So the system will be very brittle, be very unforgiving. Forget about whether it's used nefariously. Forget about whether someone uses it as an authoritarian tool, which is very real possibility, and I worry about that a lot. Just the fact that no one will know who's driving the cab ever on anything. And and also now you're taking out the intellectual part. So when I write, when you write, when I write a scientific paper, the project's not done until I've written it because that's where you you you lay it out. And if you can't put it on paper coherently with no internal contradictions, you're not done. Speaker 0: You're not done understanding it. Speaker 1: You're not done understanding it. The writing is understanding. Speaker 0: I so I think people who don't write for a living or aren't forced to write regularly don't understand this concept is a hard one, but it's through writing, or I would also say speaking, you know, public speaking, that putting concepts into words makes the concepts intelligible to the person who's articulating them. Like, you don't really understand something until you've been forced to write about it. Speaker 1: It's like a comedy shop. You go you know, the the great comedians will go down to the cheapo comedy shops to practice, to figure out what works and what doesn't work. Right? And then they go on Johnny Carson. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 1: And so so you write away writing, Speaker 0: there's no thinking. Right. So I read about Maui, the fires. Speaker 1: I wrote about that. Very clearly a land grab. You may remember how many kids died? No. Do you remember the USA article said 750 kids are missing? Yep. Right? When a kid's missing after something like that, they're dead. But they're not missing. They're dead. Maybe a couple found their way. Someone drove them out of town, but they're dead. Try to find anywhere a statement about dead kids now. You can't find it. You go to Wikipedia. You you search the word child. You search the word. You read it. There's no mention of dead children. There were 750 kids missing according to USA Today. Then all of sudden the governor is saying, well, you know, we're worried about land speculators, so we're gonna buy the land up so that the speculators can't get it. I go, so you can sell it to your friends? Right? Is it possible maybe they mowed down Lahaina because they want to put up resorts and things? Right? But what also was out there was this idea of directed energy weapons starting the fires. Now, I think that was a dead end. I don't think directed energy weapons were used even though there's a it's they're called DEWs. Even though there's a DEW facility on Maui, you don't need that. And there were videos. I go, I think those are fake. So I found nothing, but I used it as an excuse to read up on DEWs. And I was reading Rand reports from forty years ago and and Speaker 0: What is a directed energy weapon? Speaker 1: It's basically Star Wars. And so it's Reagan's Star Wars, and everyone said, oh, that's just science fiction. I go, well, Gorbachev seem to get wanna get rid of them every chance he got. So Gorbachev took him very seriously. So it turns out what you do is you put something in space, and it shoots some sort of energy, guided energy down to the surface of the earth, and it can the different frequencies have different efficacies, and so some are really good at hitting a target, some broaden out like microwaves are different than than some sort of ultraviolet laser. I'm not very good at this stuff, but and then I started reading about how what they do is they use a pulse of one laser to punch a hole through the atmosphere and then the second pulse would go through that hole. I mean, it's really clever stuff. This is forty year old Rand reports. What do they have behind the paywall forty years later? Now the best, I think, evidence of a DEW being used, and I was reading about fires in different places where trees were burning that shouldn't have burned and cars I wrote about it. If someone wants to go read it, that was a couple years ago. The best evidence of a DEW so if you've got these, you've to test them, right? This is like why you need why you need, you know, bioweapons labs in Ukraine. You gotta test them. You can't use lab rats. You look at the Quebec fires, satellite imagery of the Quebec fires, very mysterious. About 26 ish fires started simultaneously. How do you know some well, if a fire starts and then another one starts, it'll be downwind, so you'll see it'll look like the Hawaiian Islands. Right? Right. Boom, all at once. 26 fires in a crudely buckshot pattern. There was 350 miles in diameter. Boy, that's a determined arsonist or at least 26 of them. Yeah. With In the middle of nowhere. Speaker 0: Yeah. With helicopter I mean, there no roads. So Speaker 1: But but that and so it knows a cell phone can't do it, you know, nothing right there in the middle of nowhere, and all of a sudden, they all start simultaneously, and I'm going, okay. That probably was them testing out their weapons. And we have a lot of wars to test weapons. Right? Speaker 0: So you so your your basic overarching theory is around 02/1415, it became clear to the people running the world that you can't keep information under wraps anymore because the Internet is impossible to control. And so you had to flood people's brains with extraneous and misleading information. Speaker 1: And shut down people. They shut they booted the president of The United States off Twitter. Yeah. How is that possible? Speaker 0: Because he was a racist. Speaker 1: Shut up racist. That's what they told me. Shut up racist. Speaker 0: Was a racist. Speaker 1: Right. And, you know, so many there's something like 70,000 got booted off Twitter. My sister-in-law who's she had a Twitter feed. She can't get it back. You know, somehow, I don't know how I Speaker 0: saw What was her crime? Speaker 1: She must have said something favorable about Trump or something. I don't know. Speaker 0: So but the control of information, the shaping of people's understandings of the world around them, that's that's the whole game right there. Speaker 1: So I used to say the Internet was democracy's greatest hope and worst enemy, and that it was a battle. I don't think we're gonna win it, and the reason I don't is because it's too powerful, and so whoever has control of it will then have that power. So it's only a battle for who gets control of it. Speaker 0: Control of information. Speaker 1: Control of the the digital world. Yeah. Speaker 0: So if you see voices out there dissenting from the Speaker 1: I hear voices, Tony. Speaker 0: If you if you see if you see or hear voices that are dissenting from the official storyline, they're gonna have to be silenced or eliminated, mean. Speaker 1: Well, look at what happened. Look at the ambushes that occurred when Thomas Massie, who I think is great, Rand Paul, who I think has matured immensely, and who is the third Republican who who stepped away from the narrative, and all of a sudden the attacks were relentless. Now that could just be Trump being Trump. It wasn't just Trump attacking them, though. I know. Marjorie Taylor. Marjorie Taylor Greene, who, by the way, is nowhere near as stupid. I mean, she's not even stupid. Oh, I know. She ran a construction company. Speaker 0: Oh, I know. And her She just doesn't have whatever that normal The fear that controls people in DC where like, I can't Speaker 1: But how do you turn on Thomas Massey? Marjorie Taylor Greene at least played a role in KFAB that you can imagine drawing fire. Massey's this guy, you know, who who built his own house and fixes his own car, and he's he's an engineer. He's he's he's 's he's he archetype of who we ought to be. Speaker 0: As a country. Speaker 1: As a country. I so vehemently agree with turned on him. Speaker 0: Yeah. Well, I haven't. We know why they turned on him. I texted with him this morning. No. I I mean, you know, you could say I disagree with with Thomas Massey, but if you think Thomas Massey is the problem You are the problem. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. Just because, first of all, he's a decent man, which always matters to me, and I think it should matter to all of us. You could, you know, give Thomas Massey a routing number, and he's not going to take a dollar. He's just not. He's not going He's Speaker 1: the only one without a handler. Speaker 0: That's true. And and I think we should admire that even if you think that all members of congress should be required to have handlers. It's okay to live in a world where one doesn't. That's what I find Speaker 1: so Right. It's not okay to live in a world where everyone else does. Speaker 0: No. I agree with you, but I just find what's so interesting, and there's a religious quality to all of these conversations that I find so striking. It's like, it's okay if you have, you know, all this power, all this money, if you run-in the US government or whoever you are with a lot of power, you know, you can afford to have some percentage of the population not play along. Like, you don't need doesn't need to be an Albanian election in 1982. Like, you can have some descent. Speaker 1: Unless you're an authoritarian state. Speaker 0: I guess that's right. I mean, but even in an effective authoritarian state, it's Saudi Arabia in The Emirates. These are, you know, basically, theocracies. They don't they don't agree with that, but they you know, these are Islamic states under Sharia law. You can kinda dissent. It's okay. You just can't do anything really threatening, of course. Right. But more dissent is allowed in Abu Dhabi than in DC. I just find that just absolutely incredible. Like, what is this? Why why can't they allow Thomas Massey to just, like, have his own Massey views? Speaker 1: He's a vote. He's a vote? Okay. Speaker 0: But you got you got hundreds of others. Like, I I just think it's weird. There's this desire to make sure that nobody sings off the song sheet, like, and that person must be killed. And I wow. I just I don't enforce that among my own children. Speaker 1: So Do you know what I'm talking about? No. I absolutely know We what talking used to allow opposing views. Speaker 0: Yeah. I mean, look. If someone is really a threat to the system well, I think that should be allowed personally because the people on the Speaker 1: government in what way. But yes. Speaker 0: In what way? I have a very wide strike zone for that. But I get it if the system is like, I'm sorry. You're an actual threat. We have to kill you. Okay. Systems exist to preserve themselves. I understand that. What I really can't even comprehend is someone out there in a place I've never been and never will go among 350,000,000 people is making a noise that I disagree with. I must crush him. What is that? That's just weird to me. Why are you going to the effort to shut down Speaker 1: all dissent? I I don't know. But But it's that's that's That's what's happening. Oh, I know. Not to swing the topic yet again, let me let me get back to the universities. People don't understand universities. There are people who do, obviously, but the average person doesn't. So so people are gonna say I'm talking my book. Let me let me take this opportunity with your gargantuan following to explain how universities work Speaker 0: so that Well, let me just say before you begin that I'm amazed by the broadness of your thinking right or wrong. Speaker 1: You're Speaker 0: certainly thinking thoughts that most people don't allow themselves to think, and you are a tenured professor at an Ivy League college, and you still have your job apparently. So that does say something. Speaker 1: It would be hard to fire me. Apparently. I mean, part of problem one of reasons I got canceled is because I twice fought unionizations. Yep. And the first time was at the request of the dean of faculty. Second time was at the request of the provost of late night phone call. You gotta fight this. Gotta You put together a team, and that's the now president. And so if they fired me, that group was sort of behind my cancellation, so firing me would have been hard because, you know, you know, witness number one would be, did you ask column to to fight the unions, and did that lead to, you know, them canceling him and stuff like that? I really think Cornell is great. I think most universities are fine. We needed a fastball past our chin. Great example, Claudine Gay. Shouldn't be president of Harvard, shouldn't be on the faculty, shouldn't have a PhD in my opinion. That is the sign of the rot that has gotten into the universities, but then it's still an exceptional rot. So I I don't see people at Cornell that look like Claudine Gay to me. And and if you actually look in the the whole DEI thing, you say, well, universities are super duper DEI, and I go, you guys are forgetting that a year ago or two years ago, if you weren't DEI, you got destroyed. The whole system was geared up to make sure you paid dearly if you weren't DEI, so you had to have your deans of diversity and your you you the the the world was demanding it. Don't forget this is a world where where where biological men were were competing in women's sports. They still kind of are, but at least it's now starting to dissipate. And that was considered totally normal and was considered rational. And if you fought it, you get fired and things like that. So so the universities were simply responding. Now they'd gotten way left wing. My colleagues were all hired, all hired based on their skills. Guaranteed. I would I'd remember a case if it was a DEI hire. I remember a case because I would have fought it. I would have screamed. I don't shut up on things like that. We try to find the best person in the world to hire, and we go for that person if we can, and we do pretty well. And so if you were on a campus, you wouldn't see what we're hearing about. I don't think. You'd walk around the campus, you go, everything just looks pretty normal. As you're Speaker 0: in the hardest of the hard sciences though, do you think that Speaker 1: That's the problem. If I walked over the Arts Quad, I'd see some Looney Tunes. Right? And we're we're now just the cost of an education is too high to waste it. And so if you're gonna spend $300,000, you can't you can't go into a career that you make 40,000 or that you make 25 because you're a barista. Yeah. Right? It's just no longer even viable, so you have to. So colleges if I were president of Cornell, I put together an elite committee of people I absolutely trusted and say, you guys are in charge of trying to figure out where we should be in twenty years and how to get there because because we can't be here in twenty years. It's not gonna work. Arts and sciences and this whole idea of this broadly based education was formed prior to the cost and was formed when wealthy people went to college. You could be frivolous if you want, and getting a sheepskin could get you onto Wall Street and be the lead analyst for all the .coms, Henry Blodgett style. Right? Those days are gone, and so colleges are gonna have to tighten up, but but my colleagues are, I would say, on average, out of 20 out of 30 colleagues, I'll say maybe I think 27 of them are left of center, and I can't explain why. Now when I talk to them, totally rational people, totally reasonable people. The way it works as a chemist is you are an entrepreneur. You get a job. They give you start up money to get started. You have to then go raise money. Funding rates are ballpark maybe 15% of the people who get funded. By the way, the ones who never get funded, they've dropped off, so that 15% is people still trying. And I'm gonna brag, I put 21 in a row successfully. Do the math on that. That's that's improbable. But my colleagues are constantly battling. They're putting together this program. They're running research groups of anywhere from five to 30. No one pays for that. They raise the money from the federal system. You say, well, the Fed shouldn't pay the money. Well, years and years ago, we decided the way to run a research program in The United States was through universities and federal grants. It was a Sputnik thing. There's other ways to do it, but we set up that system. And if you look at all the startup companies around the country and all the pharmaceutical agents, they all you can trace their origins back to academic labs. Pfizer discovers far fewer drugs than they buy from some small startup that came out of some biochemistry department or some medical school or something. And so so so the academic research area is is the foundation level starting point. I have a number of friends who are worth a fortune because they patented something, and that's actually good because it would be neutered and not even usable by the free market if it didn't have the patent coverage, and so it made sense. So so it puts an incentive system in there. Right? Cornell gets some, the investigator gets some, the department gets some, and the world gets a new drug. It's not a crazy system. Now there's other ways to do it, but that's not how we do it. And we produce the best science, so it worked. Now the problem is that Trump threw a fastball past our chin and we deserved it. We absolutely deserved it. So he's saying, look, get rid of the the guys in sports, which Penn did with Leah Thomas, you know, get rid of the DEI, which a lot of schools are trying to and at the same time ducking, you know, naming them by different things. But but the fastball was needed. The problem is he he as you said at breakfast, it was the social stuff that Trump was going after, but you don't go after the social stuff with social stuff. You go after it by going after the money. Right. So Harvard's locked down for $9,000,000,000 of research funds, my understanding is it's still locked down. Cornell's locked down for over a billion. Speaker 0: Which nine Harvard was getting 9,000,000,000 from the feds for research of various times, and it's on hold. Speaker 1: And it's on hold. And the word cancel versus frozen, I I was trying to figure it out. Columbia, I thought it was a canceled got crushed. And then Columbia put out a memo that said canceled. Now I don't know if that's because it's been canceled, but my understanding is the money's not flowing. Now the problem is, as a trustee said to me, you know, if this goes into 2026, we're in a world of trouble. I said, if this goes into August, we're in a world of trouble. I've got colleagues with 15 person research groups that are all funded by these federal grants, and they do good science. They do good science. There's probably some crap in the humanities, but they suck about $10,000 of grant money out of the system to do that stupid thing. I don't know. I don't even know if it's stupid. And there's no now if if you're getting your PhD, there's no one who can give you a postdoc. That's the next step. That step's broken. And so the system right now is on it's flatlined. And and I I really wish they'd gotten rid of USAID, and you told me they did. They just moved it. Well, that's a problem. But but I think I think the academic research system was working. Speaker 0: I think part of the problem from a civilian perspective are the endowments. Speaker 1: Now let me explain the endowments. Speaker 0: So for let me just complete the thought by saying it's the no tax part that I think drives some of us to wanna sort of storm the campus with guns because that's everyone's getting mean, the private equity guys are taking all their income as interest, so they're paying half the rate. But for a normal person, you know, you're paying over half of everything you make to the government, and it's being spent on nonsense or given to Ukraine. And then there are these giant hedge funds called university endowments that aren't paying any taxes. And I think that can really drive people bonkers, including me. Speaker 1: Well, I understand. There are some subtleties of endowments. Again, it's not to say that you're not a 100% correct, but I at least want to say to your listeners so they understand what they're complaining about. First and foremost, there supposedly are rules where the universities are not supposed to be competing with the private sector, so and they get around those. But if Cornell builds housing, is making money off the housing in town, that kind of breaks the rule, Right. But they build dorms and, you know, things like that. So you're right about that. The endowments are a funny game. First and foremost, I looked this up last week. Approximately 50% of all endowments spin off, so it spins off at revenue and Harvard's has been collecting since 1656. 50% of the money spun off goes to financial aid, which means making college more affordable, admittedly not very affordable for a lot of people, but making it more affordable, so so so half of the money being spun off is going right back to education of the students. Another 20 is for academic programs, which means paying for things that that would have have to be paid for or we'd have to do without. And I would argue we got bloated. So there's things we should have done without. If you looked at the dining program now compared to what we they have now, it's really unbelievable. Speaker 0: I'm not against good food. I'm against DEI administrators and administrators in general. Like, college should be focused on No. Speaker 1: I I agree with that. That and and that's where we should have gotten the fastball pass our Speaker 0: Should any of these schools have more tenured professors than they do administrators? I don't think so. Speaker 1: The the administrative bloat is a combination of all the problems that that drive you nuts and the fact that the interactions between the university and the the feds and the states has gotten more complicated. Right. So so for example, you need way more bean counters. Speaker 0: And grant writers and Speaker 1: Well, no. Grant writers are me. Okay. They're us. The the grants are being written by the faculty. And, again, the DEI Michigan's DEI payroll is was 93,000,000 last time I read about it. That's a lot of money. Right? But but but but just when you get a federal grant, there's so many things you have to do. It used to they ran it out of a shoebox. Here's your check. Spend it wisely. You know, that's what it's no longer like that. Now it reached the absurd point where you're supposed to make statements about how you're gonna save the whales and donate organs to Guatemalan orphans and things like that, and I think Trump's gonna successfully get a lot of that crap out of there. He would save Cornell a fortune if he could get rid of all of DI. Now I do think the original idea of affirmative action makes sense. It basically said, go find people who are being missed. Look into the dusty corners where you normally don't look and see if you find talent. Right? There's a famous chemist named Henry Gilman at I Speaker 0: thought the SAT was designed to do that. Speaker 1: No. The it turns out the SAT has problems now, and the reason it has problems is because when Kaplan got ahold of it, it and they for profit coach kids on how to do well, and then they made it such that the SAT could be taken three times and you get to use only the one you like, all of a sudden the cost of maximizing your score on the SAT became prohibitive. And so it's a legitimate argument that someone coming out of the hood cannot take the Kaplan course, take the SAT three test. So but you shouldn't get rid of it. You should just be aware of what it's telling you. Speaker 0: Would it be possible to design a corruption free screen for intelligence and, know, initiative? Speaker 1: Shut up, racist. No, but I mean No. So the idea Speaker 0: was that the SAT was supposed to democratize education. We're just going to locate Speaker 1: And discover kids who've got double eight hundreds who you wouldn't Speaker 0: have spotted. Exactly. Right. And actually, I have a child who got an 800, couldn't get into college. So so clearly, it's like the system has gotten so corrupt. So but but the idea in Kaplan, you said, corrupted it as well. Speaker 1: Well, it it that it it kinda corrupted the SAT. Speaker 0: Right. That's what I'm saying. Speaker 1: So Now the GRE, which is the next level, is nowhere near as corrupted it because by then, the students don't give a damn. They do, I'll take the GRE, and they so it's it's more legit. Speaker 0: But is there I mean, but the idea that of a color blind, class blind, pure, you know, meritocracy test is I mean, why give up Speaker 1: on that? Here's what I think we should do. I used I I was graduate director of graduate studies, which involved admission into our grad program for seven years record. The only guy who held the four administrative positions in the chemistry department, so that's pretty good for being the chemistry douchebag. And you learn about things. And I read undergraduate admissions on purpose for a number of years because and you read Regent, so I might read Manhattan, for example, and you learn about who's applying and stuff like that. And what I think you want to look for is a system where you see evidence that a kid overcame something. And it's not about color, although you could say non statistically it's about color. Right? But a kid from the Ozarks, you know, JD Vance, who I find his origin story a little suspicious, I must admit. But but but so we had a kid who applied and everything was sunshine and skittles, rainbows in his application. And one of his lighter writers said his mother died here. His father died here. He was raised by his neighbors, you know, and I'm going, and he didn't mention it? Speaker 0: I hope you let him in. Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yes. You give me in graduate admissions, I see some kid from Stanford with a I see some kid from Stanford with three point o. I didn't take him because a three point o is a kid who accepted a three point o. You show me I'll take a four point zero from St. Mary's College of the Divinity because that kid said, here's the they said, here's the highest you can get to. That kid got there, right? MIT kids with lousy GPAs are lousy grad students, even though they're smarter than hell, but they're cocky. Now, it turns out you show me a kid from Stanford with a three point zero who played football. I take the kid in a heartbeat. You show me a kid from Stanford who who who who is a three point o, who is in you know, who is, you know, brilliant violinist. I'll take that kid. My here's my son. My son applies to Cornell for reasons you know he was gonna get in. But his resume I had once underachiever as a kid, who's now phenomenal, and the one who is a superachiever. What's superachieving? And we didn't push him because it was a pain in the ass. We're driving all the time. All State Orchestra first violin, gold medalist in the eight state regional gymnastics championship, fifth in the nation equestrian, played lacrosse. Got a resume better than that. So here's what happened. My older son who could care less about school, Just nothing. His teacher said, sweet kid, no attention. At one point I said to a teacher, the only kids he's beaten are crack babies. And she kind of blew a snap bubble and then said, yeah. He's now phenomenally successful. He's a super dad. I'm so proud of the level of dadness that he is. He's the director of event management at the Council on Foreign Relations. After being the most underwhelming kid in high school, he grew up. He climbed Mount Stupid a little bit late. Unfortunately, was in a family that could help him get over it when the time came. The thing that we get credit for is not breaking them. It's not it's not forcing them into a mold that didn't fit. You know who he is? You know the book Ferdinand the Bull? Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: Child's story? Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: That book wasn't for kids. That was for the parents. That was telling the parents your kid is Ferdinand maybe. My other one was Mike Mulligan's steam shovel. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Right? Faster the the more people watch, the faster he went. Ironically, the overachiever got to Cornell and got lost. The the underachiever got just grew nicely in college, and now the the younger one is now a professional after trying cubicle farming and all that crap that you get by being a business major at Cornell Hotel School. He's a professional violinist in Boston. Better outcome. Better outcome. Bank of Dad's important because violinists in Boston don't make a lot of money. But I'm happy to support it because it's his soul. You know why he's a professor? You want neurobiology? My wife was flat on her back when she was pregnant. She put headphones against her stomach and played classical music when he was in the womb. I know prenatal development is important. By the time he's three years old, his friends are singing B. I. N. G. O. And he's listening to orchestra pieces and he'd say, I like this part right here, and you'd hear the second violins come in there and he'd go, right there, I like that. And I'm going, holy shit, this kid's got an ear. He has an ear like you he developed an ear in So the don't do that to your womb. You'll have a musician in your family if you So do Speaker 0: I wanna ask you here since you mentioned the struggle, you know, the the triumph, but also the struggle to pay for it because the economy doesn't support young people very well Since you did call the financial collapse of two thousand eight, it sounds like. Speaker 1: Mhmm. In 02/2002. Speaker 0: In 02/2002. So you couldn't short you couldn't get rich shorting anything. I I shorted twice, Speaker 1: and it's shortings for fools and pros, and the Venn diagram of those two is almost that. Speaker 0: That's exactly right. They're both I know both. Yes. Yeah. Where are we now? We're in a catastrophic situation. Catastrophe seems strong. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I I think you can make arguments the economy has a lot of problems, and and and there's there's a paradoxical problem with the economy, and that is you can go up to any seven eleven and they can't hire. They there there's help wanted ads. So it looks like an economy burning burning hot. But if you look at the high end, there's layoffs going everywhere. So there's foreshadowing of of real trouble coming. Speaker 0: So college graduates, even Ivy League graduates, humanities graduates, not engineers or chemists, but, you know, the the business guy or whatever, they're having trouble getting jobs. The kind Speaker 1: that they're trained for, certainly. Speaker 0: Yeah. But there's just I mean, I know a bunch of them, and but you see it in the numbers. Educated 22 year olds are having trouble getting jobs, but seven eleven can hire. Right. So what what is that? Speaker 1: Well, so this is a normal sort of it's a distorted version of of, I think, a recession coming or or in. Now where it gets complicated is if you don't believe the inflation numbers, which I don't, and you've got Chapwood Index and Shadowstats that give inflation numbers that are probably on average six or 7% higher than the official numbers. The official numbers are corrupted, and I don't want to go into it because it's technical, but But the CPI is The CPI is crap. Speaker 0: Right. I agree with that. Speaker 1: Now here's the problem. If the economy's been growing two and a half percent and the inflation numbers are underestimated by four, means we've been in a recession the whole way. Speaker 0: Yeah. Moving backwards. Speaker 1: We're moving backward. And you say, that can't happen. The recessions last, you know, two quarters or whatever. And I go, no, the British Empire was in a recession for a century. Right? They just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. And so so, no, you can be in you can you can be in a slow decline. So so but that's not what we're that's not the catastrophe. Speaker 0: Recession means decline. Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually, I I think it's a stupid word because Speaker 0: I agree. Speaker 1: It's like you you play golf? No. Well, if you play golf, you you go down into the sand trap. According to the definition of a recession, once you start climbing out, you're out. You ask a golfer if he's out of the sand trap because he's on the upslope of the trap. He's not. No. So the fact that your economy is not growing again, if it's coming out of a hole, as far as I'm concerned, you're not out until you've gotten past that previous period. So you're at par. Yeah. So you're at par. Right. Now, that's not the catastrophe because they happen all the time, and we've been able to either cover them or fake them or prevent them through very bad monetary policy. Speaker 0: Monetary policy. Speaker 1: Right. And what's bad? Pumping the stock market is just stupid. But but, you know, private equity buys private equity buys has bought up 80% of the hospitals, the health care, and what they do is they go in and they they they buy some organization, they strip it of its assets, they load it with debt, they pay themselves huge fees and bonuses, and then they sell the shell of a company, which is now effectively worthless, into the marketplace, like to pension funds, who are not smart enough to recognize that they just bought a piece of crap, and according to Gretchen Morgansson, a forty seven percent bankruptcy rate. Speaker 0: Now Post sale. Speaker 1: Post sale. Now, as long as it's profitable to buy viable companies, destroy them, sell the shell and make money, monitor money's too loose. Precious capital, if capital is is of real value, it's a moat. So good businessman can get capital, bad businessman can't. The fact that BlackRock could buy single family dwellings, which is a terrible business, you really can't make money unless you can unless there's a housing boom and you leverage up to hell. The fact that they could get it for at an interest rate of point 15% is a highly flawed system, and that's where the inventory went after o seven to o nine. It got bought up by these guys who could lever up and then charge rents to people. So they basically scoop scoop up the housing market. Speaker 0: Now With with free with free money. Speaker 1: With free money. Kind of free money. Unlike, you know, credit cards, which are 25%. Speaker 0: Right? And that's just free. I mean, if once you factor in inflation Speaker 1: It's it's a gift. Yeah. It's it's it's it's it's profitable money. Speaker 0: Literally, just taking the loan is profitable. Yes. You don't have to do anything with it. Yes. Yes. Right. Yeah. Speaker 1: So so here here's what happened. Somehow the market has ceased to respond, and the reason the market's important is because is because of the wealth effect, and that is that if you own equities, you own a house and they're soaring in price, your spending habits change. You you I'm having a great year, for example, so when the Bank of Dad has to provide some liquidity to the children, I feel okay about it, right? The problem is is that it's a false wealth. It's not real wealth. It's a false wealth. So what happened? Well, I'm getting tired of seeing these. I see four year plots of the equity market and they make various comparisons. I go, don't go back four years. Don't go back forty years. Go back one hundred and twenty years. So I follow about 25 metrics of valuation. Valuation is inherently a price of the market relative to something it ought to track, whether it's the earnings, the revenues, the book value, I think called Tobin's Q, the GDP, which is a fictional number as I've heard you recently say, but I follow about 25 of them. So you can get a track where the markets have gotten expensive relative to the thing it ought to track. Now, around 1981, the markets were at the cheapest valuation arguably in history. Inflation was scaring everyone, which is why they were cheap. It turns out that the boomers were just hitting the workforce, so demographics was a huge tailwind starting around then, and most economists agree demographics is huge. Now, I'm disingenuous in that I quote economists selectively. In the next sentence, I'll probably say something horrible about them, and so I'm obviously cherry picking my data, but economists like demographics. So the boomers hit the workplace, so it was almost guaranteed. I think Reagan was not important. I think think he did some very important things, but I think whoever got to be president was going to be at the beginning of a boom. It turns out that China was coming out of the dark ages. They started selling labor at slave wages. They were so desperate for capital when they sent their leader, don't make me pronounce his name, to the United Nations when he first started opening up. Speaker 0: Was it Deng Xiaoping? Speaker 1: Yes. And they had to scrounge to get the money to send him. I mean, they really didn't have any foreign capital. And so I remember when China said we're gonna let our workers keep some of their profits. It's like, woah. Russia had the Soviet Union hadn't collapsed, but they were in trouble, so they were obviously cranking a resource base as hard as they could, and we had our guys in there helping them and stuff like that. And interest rates were at all time highs. And if you read a 1999 article by Buffett, who I think is a hoser, I think he's much more of a stock jobber, much more of a conniver than he is. He loves to be the the mafia don walking around in a bathrobe saying I'm harmless. He is not harmless. When when when when we're in a bottom, he breaks all sorts of laws. They do all sorts of insider crap to bail the system out, but he pretends to just like Dairy Queen and Coca Cola or whatever. He wrote an article in '99 that said, you want to understand secular, big, long, bull versus bear markets. It's all interest rates. He said, it's not GDP. He said from '67 to '81, everything sucked. It treaded water, not accounting for inflation, and the markets dropped 75 accounting for inflation. So it was a horrible period. He said the GDP grew faster during that period than from '81 to '99. But interest rates from '67 to '81 went up From 81 to 99, they went down. So we started in '81 with interest rates in the high teens and over the next forty years they dropped to zero. That is absolutely the story. So when interest rates are dropping, risk assets go up. Yep. Because they're competing against and as they So get bottom line is that we just enjoy forty year recency bias. Speaker 0: Can you just explain that principle right there? You said as interest rates drop, risk assets go up. Speaker 1: Or are you gonna buy shares of a stock that, by the way, has treated you like crap over the previous fourteen years or a bond that pays you 17%. Right. Right. So the bonds become less, the fixed income become less, less attractive steadily for forty years. Now take the Case Shiller PE, which is which is just one of the metrics, but I happen to like it. It's a kind of an averaged earnings price earnings ratio. It also doesn't allow you to cheat because it doesn't use the immediate and forward PEs are stupid, but K Shiller averages, so I like it. If you take the K Shiller from eighteen eighty to nineteen ninety, it just channels. It's a valuation metric and it just goes up and down and up and down, and that's what it should do. Responds to things, but it stays in a channel. It's flat. Valuation metrics shouldn't trend. They should trend for a while, but then they should regress to the mean unless you can someone can give me an argument why they should trend, and I don't think there is one, and I've tried to find one. And then in 1990, they just kind of started to take off And the K PE averaged around 13% for a hundred and ten years. Then around 1990, oddly 1994, in every metric is when things left. I think it was because of a bond problem or something. I haven't been able to quite figure out why. But the valuations went up. Now here's the problem with valuations going up and now they're astronomical. So the KCLP averaged 13, which meant it was priced to return about 8% a year. Right? If you think of it as a gas station and you're paying, you know, 13 to one earnings, you're getting about 8%, and and it keeps pumping gas every year, you get about 13%. It is now 38. It's way above where it should be. It's a factor of 200%. Now, if you assume it's never going to regress to the mean. Now you're accepting, crudely speaking, a two and a half percent return, not an eight. Now, if you're okay with two and a half percent, that's fine. But by the way, most pensioners, most boomers are not planning on two and a half You're not right. Now, if it regresses to the mean, it's a 70% correction, assuming if it's fast, assuming nothing else changes, no damage to the economy. You know, all the bad things that happen when you lose 70% off the equity market, which is a questionable assumption. Another way to think about it, which I think is much clearer, is if you say, look, we'll just grow our way. I think it go up or down or up and down. You don't worry about the path. You say, if we grow 2.5% a year, which I just questioned as being valid, but let's assume it's valid, if we grow 2.5% a year to get back to historical average of 13, we'll take forty five years. Now here's the thing, made no assumptions about good news, bad news. I assumed it's coming like the twentieth century. Two and a half percent a year, it'll be forty five years from now. I don't care what path you follow. If we are at the average Case Shiller PE and the economy grew two and a half percent a year, the equity markets will have returned capital gains zero. And it doesn't matter if we crash and spike, it doesn't matter, you know, if we get to, you know, Dow 40,000, 50,000, 60,000. Forty five years from now, if we're at the mean, we will have earned nothing. Now you say, well, that would never happen. You go, well, if you own the o six, the $19.00 six high, you were even after something like forty years. I don't ask from you You're own Speaker 0: even after forty years. Speaker 1: If you buy if you own the top. Yep. People always say, well, how long did it take to get back to the top? That's a favorite question. You go, oh, you know, it took twenty two years. Oh, it took fifteen years. Oh, it took I like to ask a question. No. No. No. Not how long it took to get from the top back to even. How long did it take to go from that top to the last time that that price was attained adjusted for inflation? And those can go anywhere from forty to seventy five years. All you have to do is look at inflation adjusted S and P and draw a line from a top across the s s and P, and you will find that most of them break even in the mid eighties no matter what year they started. So you're just answering the question, what Speaker 0: the hell is going on with land prices and asset prices? Everything. Everything's mispriced. But is it mispriced? I mean, if I've got excess money, you know, and I need to store it somewhere and I'm listening to you, I'm like, oh, I think I'm gonna buy something a little less volatile, a little more real. Speaker 1: Like real estate. Speaker 0: Exactly. Okay. Speaker 1: The first time home and I know this drives you bananas. The first time homebuyers not too many decades ago were on average about 30 years old. Yep. I just read. What's the fact? I don't know. 56 now. First time homebuyers, 56. Speaker 0: That's been a massive consequence. Speaker 1: Do want to buy into that market that somehow seems like it has to regress because you can't have people going fifty six years without owning a house, right? You said you personally, I think it was in Turning Point USA, you went absolutely nonstop about how you can worry about Ukraine, but we've got guys we've got young adults who can't raise families in houses. Speaker 0: Yeah. And and it it creates a very scary political environment where people don't own anything and therefore have nothing to lose and no future. Speaker 1: Right. Well, here's an interesting ADHD moment. Monogamy versus polygamy. And this will sound random, but it'll get you Speaker 0: to the same No, it's a core question actually. These are the building blocks of the West. Speaker 1: Turns out polygamy monogamy is viewed as favoring women. That turns out to be backwards, and it's a simple math. Imagine there's a 100 people ranked one to a 100. Number one hundred's Mr. Big Cheese, and on the women's side, hottest chicken on the planet. Right? Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: Monogamy says number one would marry number one, number two would marry number two in the perfect system. So think of it as just a very simple model, and that what you can't do is if you're at the bottom of the chain, marry up. Right. If you do, then someone else gets pushed down. Of course. Right? So it would be of the interest of the girl working seven Eleven to be Jeff Bezos' second wife. Speaker 0: Yeah. I think that happened. Speaker 1: So so so in fact, you can upgrade your game and and, you know, Elon, right? I mean, the guy's a reproduction machine. Right? The women are signing off on it because it's better to be with a guy worth that kind of money than broke. Right? And and so it turns out that you say, well, then why did cultural evolution lead to monogamy? And the answer is is because it minimizes violence. Right. It's for the men. Of course. So they don't fight. Speaker 0: Well, yeah, because in a polygamous system, all the high status males scoop up all the women. Speaker 1: Well, now in a situation where men can't provide the home for their families and stuff like that, and so we're gonna fight. Speaker 0: I've noticed. Speaker 1: I've noticed that too. And so now here's the deal. Let's say we're I'm right and we're to market top. And if if I'm not, I think we're close. One of the things that my peers who were paranoid as hell about this, some very smart guys, they tend not to put numbers on it. I'm one of the few who puts numbers on it. There's there's a couple others who do, but they just say all the valuations are ridiculous. But no one wants to be on record that we're gonna be to say it's catastrophically overpriced, whatever correction you get, you say, see, I told you. I'm saying 200% overpriced. Now, how do you get out of overvaluation? You can't inflate your way out. No. Because the numerator, the price, and the denominator, the thing is supposed to track, both are influenced by inflation. So as your price goes up because of inflation, your revenues go up because of inflation. You're still 200% over historical average valuation. And so you can't inflate away an overvaluation. Speaker 0: So what I mean, is this just a gravity scenario where, ultimately, it has to revert to its actual value? Speaker 1: Model I have, and they never work because it's always one of these, something will be creatively different, but the best model is a Nikkei. Japan hit a high in '89. It briefly got back to that thirty five years later. It's actually below that, I think, if I remember correctly. Inflation adjusts for that guaranteed. Speaker 0: Yes. Yes. That's right. Speaker 1: I asked someone during a podcast if you can do this spreadsheet for me, I'd love to get it. Someone did it. I said, what if you started buying the Nikkei at the top? Not own the knee. If you own the Nikkei at the top, you're dead meat, you die broke. But what if you what if you started buying 22 year old graduate of Tokyo University, you started putting yen into the Nikkei in 1989. How long if you average then did it take you to break even? It's around two decades. Starting with zero in the Nikkei. So I was on a podcast with George Nobel, Twitter Space actually. He was Peter Lynch's right hand man, and he said, well, you could I said, I think the markets will be uninvestable. He said, oh, you can do this and this. And I said the Nikkei, and he said, oh, you could short. I said, no, you couldn't. You can't short a market that takes twenty years to find a bottom. Speaker 0: So Short long time Speaker 1: a market like in o seven to o '9. Right. Speaker 0: Right. A volatile market. Yes. You can't a market in inexorable decline can't be short. Speaker 1: Sore for in a top, aren't tops supposed to be euphoric? Remember the.com? Speaker 0: Oh, yes. The world Speaker 1: was changing, the nifty 50, you know? Webvan and e toys, pets.com. Know, sustainable prosperity. We are supposed to be true believers that the world is wonderful. Do you sense much of the population thinks the world's wonderful? Speaker 0: I don't I don't sense that, and all around us are signs of Speaker 1: What's it gonna look like when 70% gets clipped off this market? Speaker 0: So I'm immediately going to prepper survival mode. What where are the enduring safe stores of value? Speaker 1: I don't you can't answer that. I bought gold at around $2.70 an ounce. 270? 270. Speaker 0: Hope you bought a lot of it. Speaker 1: I did. But it's worth a lot more now. Do you think? Speaker 0: Yeah. What spot price today? Do you know? Speaker 1: Ballpark, 3,300. Yeah. I bought silver. I bought gold below $2.70. I'll tell you why, because my first purchases were actually in a closed end mutual fund that was trading 27% below net asset valuation because people say, oh, it's easy to buy back then. Was cheap. I said it was cheap because five of us wanted it. Speaker 0: Right. Well, of course. Right. Speaker 1: And by the way, the top, some Tuesday afternoon at 02:03 p. M, we will hit a top that will be decades later to be returned to potentially. The top is the point maximum optimism, which paradoxically is the moment in time where your justification for optimism is zero. The bottom is the same thing in reverse. Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: So so we're not happy now. Speaker 0: So you're saying the herd's not always right, is Osha saying? Speaker 1: I'm told. I'm told. We're So Speaker 0: let's hold on. Let's just go back to gold for a second. So you buy Speaker 1: I bought gold net at around 2 ten. Speaker 0: Come on. Speaker 1: Well, I bought it 28% below NAV when it was Physical delivery? No. That was not physical. But then I started buying here's what I did. I bought gold from the local coin dealer. Yeah. And I'd say, when you get ounces, I'll pay cash. And he sold it to me at Spot. And he'd call and say, got three ounces in, I'd go to the bank, I'd get out $900, right, and I'd buy the gold from him. Cash. I buy silver from them. Cash. I could buy silver eagles at spot. You go on eBay. Holy shit. Those things are like $10 above spot. And and it was for for ballpark $4 an ounce. And and then I remember it was at $4.57, and I was buying from him. And he said, don't you think there's a top? He knew I was gonna buy it. He said, don't you think there's a top? Speaker 0: $457 an ounce for gold. Speaker 1: There's like, oh, three or something. I know. And and I said, how many people are buying gold from you? He said, oh, about four. And I said, and the other three are my friends, aren't they? He said, yeah. And I said, does that sound like a mania to you? And and so here's the thing I've been on. I'm a big fan of energy, but I think when the selling starts, everything sells. You'll be selling your children. You'll be sell right? Everything sells. So I think the idea of trying to get into any risk assets so dangerous, I'll take 4% on a treasury, two year treasury. Some people think, you know, I'll lock it up for two years and then, oh, that'll save me. I won't dip buy after six months. Speaker 0: So at what price would you buy gold again? Speaker 1: Well, I've got so much I don't need anymore. If I didn't own any, I'd buy it now, but the Bitcoin guys would say buy Bitcoin at a 117,000. I turned it down at 10. I wish I'd bought it. I would have sold it at 50 and spent the proceeds on therapy. Why Why on therapy? Because I would have sold it at 50. Speaker 0: Right. Good point. And I Speaker 1: know I would have. I know I would have. Speaker 0: You don't you don't believe in crypto? Speaker 1: I don't think so. The crypto can be I am their number one target. They say you are a hodler, and I won't buy it. The reason is because I believe that several layers. One is that I believe that the authorities are not gonna let crypto take over. Speaker 0: Of course not. Speaker 1: And and by the way, that means that Speaker 0: They're gonna lose total control over society? Speaker 1: That's Yeah. Speaker 0: I don't think You Speaker 1: think the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds are gonna hand it over to Max Keiser and Michael Saylor? I don't think so. Speaker 0: But you don't you don't think That's Speaker 1: what I think it actually is. You know, the first paper on crypto was written by three NSA guys. Yeah. That means I think if I were smart and I were gonna bring in central bank digital currency, which is an authoritarian nightmare, I would do it the way they did. I'd release the crypto. I'd have guys pumping it. I'd have guys supporting it. I'd let them debug the networks and the kinks and acclimate people to it, and then I'd say, okay. It was fun. We'll take it from here. Speaker 0: And in the process, of course, you acclimate people to this new Digital world. New kind of commerce. Yeah. Exactly. No. That's and I get rid of the ATMs, and I would make airport convenience stores credit card only, and I would do all that stuff to to change people's habits. Liberty. Of course. Oh, I couldn't agree more. So you just have too much gold. You just don't want any more gold. Speaker 1: I I just no. No. That it's I I'm What Speaker 0: about real estate right now? Speaker 1: I'm long I own a nice house. I'm long real estate by owning that house. I wouldn't buy real estate as a speculation. If I if you put a gun to my head, I'd say maybe farmland, but that's been getting scooped up. That's a pretty trite narrative now. Speaker 0: Big time. Well, I follow that because I'm interested. And, I mean, it's turning for just crazy numbers an acre and Speaker 1: that Well, that's a problem. Speaker 0: That's what I'm saying. Speaker 1: So So here's what I here's what I watched for years and then jumped in, and it's a problem. The modern market, I bought gold steadily from '99 through about o three, and then I bought some more when it was around 1,200 in the teens. I said, okay, it's kind of flattened out. I'm gonna get some more. So around bought it around $1,200 in maybe 2016 or something. And but the modern markets don't wait. If you get a good idea and social media stuff, it will close-up that gap so fast you won't know what hit you. So I'm bullish on energy long term, energy equities and stuff, but I think they're gonna sell before they become a good buy. And so I just can't commit a lot of money to the energy, though I think I I have some mutual funds on uranium based investments, which I think we gotta go to, and now it looks like we are. I actually think AI is not demanding nuclear energy. I think AI is being used as a Trojan horse to bring in nuclear energy, which I support. I think they're using the buzz of AI to say, let's get the nukes going. People say, yeah, nukes, we need it for the AI. We've needed nukes, it was the obvious next thing to go to. Platinum. For years I watched Platinum. Owned so little Platinum that if it went to zero, I wouldn't even notice. I mean, trivial, trivial amount. And I've been watching, it's been flat, I mean flat as in like a flat line not moving away from $900 an ounce by a few dollars flat for ten years after dropping. And I go, what's the platinum story? Well, platinum story is I don't trade. I don't trade at all. If I buy it, I'm buying it saying, I'm hanging on to it. If it goes down, I don't trade. The platinum story is I don't believe in the EV. I don't think it's a good technology. I think it'll be here, but I don't think it's gonna take over the world. I think the hybrids are gonna take over the world. Speaker 0: Well, they make sense. They make inherent sense. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're more efficient. They use more platinum than internal combustion engines because their catalytic converters burn colder, so they need more platinum. Now here's where it gets real interesting. The platinum miners are in Russia and South Africa. Russia will therefore have control. South Africa could become a failed state so fast, you know, it itches, right? More to the point, and again, trying to get real facts on this stuff, but the above ground platinum supply, the available platinum supply is something like $3,000,000,000, which is something a medium sized hedge fund could buy at current prices. It's been in deficit production for at least four years. Speaker 0: What does deficit production mean? Speaker 1: Means that we're consuming more per year than the Speaker 0: miners Oh gosh. Are Okay. Speaker 1: Based on the rate of deficit production that the above ground supply will be gone within about a year. Speaker 0: So there's no more platinum? Speaker 1: Arguably. We could go to potentially palladium, but, you know, whatever. Platinum has not gone through a meme phase, so might a little bit of trader me says that meme phase could get spectacular. Platinum could Speaker 0: go to 20,000. Because it has industrial uses. Right. You know, it seems kind of natural. Speaker 1: So I decided I was so I reached out to some technical analyst who draw the squiggles on the on the curves, and I make I I'm sarcastically occasionally commenting about technical analysis, but I I can't do it or don't believe in or whatever. But I asked a few I said, look at this plot. Where would you start getting excited? Because it's been flying for ten years, I don't need to put money in and have it sit there for ten years more. And a few gave me opinions about what price, so I kind of formulated an opinion where I had to start and then hit it. Now instead of buying it, you know, slowly, I said in the modern era you got to move quick. So I started hitting the buy button and I'm still not. I face a boomer dilemma. The boomer dilemma is the good news is my net worth is good enough if I don't screw up, I'm fine. I mean, I could retire today, not earn another penny. Fine. I wanna leave money to my kids, I will be able to. The paradox is that to commit to an asset requires committing a percentage that's not stupid. If you commit point 01% of your assets to it, it's not going to make a difference no matter what happens. Speaker 0: So Speaker 1: if you say, well, 5%. When I look at the quantity of money I have to spend to commit 5%, it seems huge, but it's only 5%. And so as a consequence, I go, look, if it went if it went to zero tomorrow, I'd have a bad day. I'd lose 5% of my assets, but it would be too much money. So so I'm fighting this bias about how many dollars it takes to get to a Speaker 0: I get it. So let me ask you just a a wrap up question, which is given your description of where we are, and you haven't even mentioned what could be a debt crisis when people stop buying our debt or or slow down. But there are all kinds of things to worry about that are seem imminent. How does the average person respond? Speaker 1: They don't have any money anyways. Speaker 0: Yeah. Fair. Speaker 1: I mean, the the average person has no money. Speaker 0: So yeah. Speaker 1: So how does the five percentile boomer respond? Yeah. Well, years ago, I did an analysis on the five percentile boomer. This is how bad it is. This is years ago, actually. And it it actually got vetted by Steven Roach, who's executive director of Morgan Stanley. He looked at my numbers and actually you've overestimated something, you should be more conservative. I invented five percentile guy. At that time he was worth $1,100,000. He was earning $156,000 a year. You also know he's not 22 years old, he's probably a boomer because it takes a while to get to five percentile. At a reasonable rate of withdrawal from a retirement account, mister five percentile guy who is has to be living the American dream could take about $48,000 out. Annually? Annually. Without risking going broke. And you know what? They don't know how to live on 48,000. No. And they might have other assets. This is a complicated analysis, but that's a scary number. Speaker 0: For a modern life, that's Speaker 1: a Yeah. Well, the but the thing is if he knew how to live on $3,048,000 dollars, he'd have more than 1,100,000.0. Speaker 0: Good point. Speaker 1: And so so we've got a whole generation that has got expectations that are just off the chart distorted, and it's not because of a five year or ten year recency bias. It's a forty year recency bias. It's 1981. Let me finish that story. From 1981, the valuation, which should not trend, compounded annually 4% a year. What happens over the next forty years when it compounds negative 4% a year to get to cheap again? Now you say, well, that'll never happen. I go, of course, it'll happen. Show me an asset class that got overpriced. It didn't become cheap again. Speaker 0: Well, if you believe in markets, that's just by definition going to happen. Speaker 1: Right. And if there's a way to fake it it doesn't happen, then it means you're just diluting as to what actually happened. You're not getting a reality. Speaker 0: Right. Right. Speaker 1: And so the bottom line is is that the boomer demographic almost by definition was gonna generate a bubble, a big mother bubble because of the demographics. Now I was telling you about how I was reading my old write ups from like thirteen, fourteen, 15. I make a compelling case that that the markets were crazy. How do I do it? I use numbers, I use stats, and I use quotes from the most famous money guys in the world. You know, Paul Tudor Jones, Stan Druckenmiller, you name it. These are not lightweights saying these markets are insanely overvalued in 2015. What has happened since then? Straight up. Oh, Example. For Apple, tenfold gain on a growth in revenues of 50%. '95 per 95% correction brings that back down. Microsoft, 150% gain in revenues, tenfold gain. Doesn't make mathematical sense. Let's go to Nvidia. There is the winner. $4,000,000,000,000 of market cap being run by a guy who has a very sketchy past. 25 fold gain in revenues. You go, now we're talking 250 fold gain in market cap. Speaker 0: Yeah. So that's the problem right Speaker 1: there. 90% correction takes you back to 02/2015. Do you remember 2015 being depressed? I don't. Stan Druckenmiller didn't think so. Howard Marks didn't think so. All these guys who are considered legends thought the markets were insanely overpriced in '15. And it's been nothing but up. And that will end. I don't know when. Speaker 0: And you think that all asset classes are tied to that? Speaker 1: I can't say all because that means a 100%, but I I if I found something that I thought was dirt cheap, I'm glad I own the gold from as cheap as I did because because when it goes down, I go, I'm still up on 15 fold or something. Right? So it makes it easier. Buying gold now from scratch would be harder. It would be that, you know, the number of dollars to get the percent position, that sort of thing. And I think the debt problem is global. If you actually look at the metrics for the growth in the global debt relative to global GDP, the entire world has become priced much more than ten years ago relative to what the world produces. So what's a global debt crisis? That's a question. Well, there's you got lenders and borrowers. It's a zero sum game. No, it's not. I know. A global debt crisis is when the entire world thinks they're gonna get shit that the world can't produce. And the way you think of how to create one artificial Gedanken experiment. Let's say the leaders of the world got together and said, look, let's just solve this problem. Let's guarantee health care to all our citizens. Let's guarantee their pension, all our citizens. Problem solved. They go, well, but you didn't in any way, shape or form increase the ability to produce wealth. So you now have obligations for which you haven't a clue how you're gonna pay for them. Who's gonna do it? Are you gonna have the Chinese delivering Chinese food to our door still? I don't think so. We're gonna be delivering food to the Chinese. So so everything will regress. Forty year recency bias says it won't. Speaker 0: It will. On that dark note, I'm just picturing myself showing up at a doorstep in Beijing with some kung pao chicken. Speaker 1: Hoping for a tip. Speaker 0: Hoping for Speaker 1: a tip. I can see you now. You turn the scan around and shoved the 25% tip in the guy's face. Speaker 0: Professor, thank you. I hope this doesn't get you fired. I hope you'll come back. Speaker 1: I anytime. You call, I'm in the car. Thank you.
Saved - August 21, 2025 at 2:42 AM

@TCNetwork - Tucker Carlson Network

Were the Quebec wildfires weapon tests? https://t.co/3EeFDGtkcI

Video Transcript AI Summary
Speaker discusses directed energy weapons and the Quebec fires, noting satellite imagery that looks mysterious: 26 fires started simultaneously. They argue that if a fire starts and another starts downwind, it suggests a pattern; the fires were 350 miles in diameter and occurred in a crudely buckshot pattern, in the middle of nowhere with helicopters and no roads. The speaker says, "That probably was them testing out their weapons," suggesting a "determined arsonist or at least 26 of them." They compare the spread to the Hawaiian Islands, implying all at once. The overall claim is that the Quebec fires may reflect testing of directed energy weapons rather than typical arson.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: What is a directed energy weapon? You look at the satellite imagery of the Quebec fires. Very mysterious. About 26 ish fires started simultaneously. How do you know some well, if a fire starts and then another one starts, it'll be downwind. So you'll see it'll look like the Hawaiian Islands. Right? Right. Boom. All at once. 26 fires in a crudely buckshot pattern. There was 350 miles diameter. Boy, that's a determined arsonist or at least 26 of them. Yeah. In the middle of nowhere. Yeah. With helicopter mean, there are no roads. They're in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden, they all start simultaneously and I'm going, okay. That probably was them testing out their weapons.

@TuckerCarlson - Tucker Carlson

There aren’t many Ivy League professors as bold as Dave Collum. It’s amazing he still has a job. (0:00) How Collum Predicted the 2008 Financial Crisis (11:44) Collum’s Mission to Uncover the Truth About Covid (17:23) Did Covid Actually Come From a Lab in North Carolina? (19:36) Government Experiments Being Conducted on Foster Care Children (22:17) What’s the Truth About Diddy? (24:09) What’s the Truth About Hunter Biden’s Laptop? (25:09) What’s the Truth About January 6th? (28:07) What’s the Truth About the Assassination Attempt on Donald Trump? (31:26) Collum’s Prophetic Annual Reviews (41:01) The Vegas Shooting (54:16) The Global Political Kayfabe (58:17) What Exactly Is QAnon? (1:00:45) Are We Being Purposefully Distracted From Things That Actually Matter? (1:07:04) The Real Dangers of AI (1:09:44) Wildfires and Directed Energy Weapons (1:13:43) The Censorship Regime’s Evolution (1:19:45) The Real Way to Fix American Universities (1:31:27) The Problem With Affirmative Action and SAT (1:39:16) We’re in a Catastrophic Economic Crisis (1:54:15) The Housing Crisis (2:00:40) What Kind of Assets Should You Invest In? (2:11:17) How Can the Average Person Protect Against a Financial Crisis? Includes paid partnerships.

Video Transcript AI Summary
An emeritus Cornell organic chemist who also follows markets and politics describes his career and battles over free speech. He says he was canceled in 2020; a letter denouncing him was "kabuki" and trustees intervened, though Pfizer dropped a long-time Pfizer consulting gig. He frames universities as a mix of free speech and academic freedom but critiques DEI, endowments, and funding freezes, urging elites to recalibrate education for twenty years ahead. On COVID, he, in Doctors for COVID Ethics, claims VAERS data show serious problems and accuses Fauci and Birx of malice and incompetence; suggests the NC lab gained-function origin and Ukraine labs funded by the US. He questions Vegas shooting narratives (Route 41) and calls politics "kayfabe" with the deep-state needing to flood information. Economically, he predicts overvaluation, potential 70% corrections, warns of debt, boomer endowments, gold, energy, and real assets as hedges. He emphasizes writing as thinking.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Very few college professors do what college professors are supposed to do, which is kind of break through outside campus into the the conversation among smart people about what the world is about. And in other words, they don't they don't kind of influence the broader culture directly, and you do and you're an organic chemistry professor. I how Are you allowed to do this at Cornell? Are you allowed to kind of opine on economics, social policy, foreign policy? Like, what are your administrators saying when you do this? Speaker 1: I don't know if it's generally true, but Cornell's not giving me any golf. The only problem I had with Cornell and we talked, know, we had breakfast and we talked a little bit about I think my colleagues wish I would shut up, but but they don't tell me to shut up, although, you know, they've told me to stay on. I have kind of an intellectual Tourette syndrome where Stay in your lane. Well, I'll be in the middle of class. I can march of o seven. In the middle of class, no warning, I blurred out the banking system's about to collapse. I'd written about it in o two, but I turned I said, I think it's about to collapse. Speaker 0: This is an organic chemistry class? Speaker 1: An organic chemistry class. I and they looked at me and I just said, look, I think the entire banking system's going down the tubes now. And it took another year, year and a half to Speaker 0: Did they say that's not a related discipline? What are you Speaker 1: talking about? No. No. Gave me guff for that. What was entertaining about that particular Tourette's like outburst is that I had the same kids in an honors thesis course two years later in the first lecture, one lecture a week, the first lecture I said, didn't I warn you? This is February. So didn't I warn you that that the banking system was gonna collapse? I said they said, yeah, you did. And I said, did your econ professors tell you that? They said no. And I said, what are those assholes paid for? In this thesis course, I used a lot of guest lectures, so my first guest lecturer was the CEO of Morgan Stanley Bank, and he had cut his teeth on mortgage backed securities and he spent two hours talking about the catastrophe that we were in the middle of in February '9. And and so so, yeah, I do occasionally go off the rails, but but now no one gives me grief. I got canceled in 2020. The closest you and I I've been following you for years, but the closest you and I actually came to actually meeting, but we didn't, was in 2020, I got canceled during the the height of cancel season. Right? Remember how it was happening all the time? And and the probability of me ending up being interviewed by you was pretty high because it was being I got canceled, and it was written up in the federal or some place like that. Speaker 0: And so we you canceled for? Speaker 1: Oh, it was a real crime against humanity. I supported the police. Oh, okay. It was one of those. Remember the guy got knocked over in Buffalo? Yes. A friend of mine, was doing a podcast with that Saturday, posted that late one night and said said, I think this is just appalling when the old guy got knocked over by the riot police. And I watched the video a couple times. I said, well, Chris his name is Chris Irons. I said, we can talk about it on Saturday, but but but I have no idea what he was doing there. So this is in a tweet. And I said I said he was poking riot police with something that looked kinda like a taser or something. Turns out in retrospect, it was a skimmer. And and and so I said it looks like kind of a self inflicted problem to me. Right? I didn't say he deserved it or anything like that, but it it is self inflicted if you poke a riot policeman and he knocks you over. Right? That that that's pretty much, you know Yeah. It's a Darwin Award. Speaker 0: Bears and riot riot policeman shouldn't be poked. Speaker 1: Turns out, what I learned that night was the cancel culture is not organic. It was it was incredibly astroturfed. The speed with which it happened was staggering. It was automated. Yeah. Within within twenty or thirty minutes, email boxes all across the administration were filling with complaints. It it went everywhere. I had to lock down my Twitter feed fast and and things like that. And and then Cornell was on sort of a war footing trying to figure out what to do. Now they're trying to figure out what to do just because they wanted the fire to be put out. Right? So they weren't against me in that sense. It was during the lockdown, so I didn't I didn't actually there was the advantage of everyone was locked down, but I wasn't sure Antifa wouldn't show up, and we know that's not organic either. Right? And so and so and so I slept with some loaded guns, I was emotionally ready to blow someone's brains out. Speaker 0: How many tenured professors in Ivy League schools have guns at home? I don't know. Speaker 1: Just you? I would not well, there's probably more. We have natural resources department, stuff like that, and those guys probably use the resources available. But the the one mistake Cornell made, they made two mistakes. First of all, it turns out the guy was a grifter. The whole thing was faked, and there's there's video footage of him telling people he's gonna go get knocked down and people yelling at him for doing that. It turns out the blood that came out of his ear I've talked to physicians. They said it would never come out like that. There's pictures of him on the gurney talking on his cell phone behind the ambulance. The the press couldn't find him in any of the hospitals. He made a lot of money on GoFundMe. So he he grifted his while he was supposedly in a coma, his Twitter feed, which had all sorts of fuck the police kind of comments, was being scrubbed very quickly. And and so so the turn of the whole thing in retrospect was a grift, so I was dead right. Cornell was on a wharf and trying to figure out how stop this. There's graffiti all over the campus and stuff, and so they made two mistakes. One is at no point did someone from Cornell reach out and say, how are you doing? Right. Because I got North Carolina got canceled and he killed himself. Right. I'm not gonna kill myself. It was unpleasant. I I would admit that. Speaker 0: How long had you been at Cornell at that point? Speaker 1: Oh, that would have been forty years. Forty years. So you Right. Plus four years as an undergrad. So, you know, Speaker 0: so spent forty four years at Cornell at that point. So not a newcomer. Speaker 1: No. And and by the way, the guy who was the provost at the time was a friend of mine. He he was he I knew him from the day he got to Cornell. He's now the president and it's useful. So when I I I told I I knew I was coming here and I asked a trustee, gonna I'm be talking to Tucker, is there anything? And you'd like me to somehow get out there, not that I'm gonna be there talking, man, but I it'd stupid to to miss it. And I sent a quick email to the president and said, is there anything? And he gave me a couple bullets, but they were obvious. They were the obvious things. And the second mistake they made is eventually they put together some and the Daily Sun was doing what I called the daily column where where they published an article about what an asshole I was. Right? And they'd write an article about the football team and get the NSA, by the way, did we mention columns and asshole? Right? That sort of thing. So so they they finally wrote a letter denouncing me, and it was signed interestingly by the president, who I didn't really like that much, that president, the provost who's a friend of mine, which was ironic, the chief of police, which was super ironic, and a couple other administrators who was missing was one of our deans, the dean of arts and sciences, who didn't sign it. He would have been an obvious signer, and he once said to me, what good is tenure if you don't have free speech? Now they weren't trying to hurt me. They were just trying to put out a fire and to put it out. So to to in that sense, they did the right thing. Speaker 0: Do they call and tell you they were gonna denounce you before the Speaker 1: No. And and by the way, know a number of trustees at this point, and and they all said they should have just shut up. So that was a mistake. More recently, a guy named Rickman, I think it was, you know, made that statement about it being exhilarated that Israel got attacked. Right? And he shouldn't have said that. Right? That was stupid. But but what people don't understand is that universities are this funny combination of free speech and academic freedom. We're supposed to foster speech, and that means dumb speech. That means sometimes hostile speech. Right? You know that drill. And and then the president denounced him, same president, the one I didn't really like, the one who denounced me. And she said this is only the second time I've denounced something a faculty member said. I go, yeah. I was the first. Hate to brag, but we're Speaker 0: pretty confident this show is the most vehemently pro dog podcast you're ever gonna see. We can take or leave some people, but dogs are non negotiable. They are the best. They really are our best friends. And so for that reason, we're thrilled to have a new partner called Dutch Pet. It's the fastest growing pet telehealth service. 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Your dogs, your cats, and your wallet will thank you. What about the the then provost, now the president, who was your friend who denounced you? Did that affect your friendship? Speaker 1: No. Not a bit. They were just trying to put out a fire, and I was ready for the fire to be put out. What helped is several trustees wandered in the president's office and said, don't even think about doing something stupid here. So I had one day I put out a tweet talking about how lovely Cornell is. Cornell is a phenomenal institution, so so my loyalty to Cornell was painting my vision, but Cornell is not like the other Ivies. It's not Harvard, it's not Princeton. It is in the middle of this idyllic setting with we have 200 gorges. The people at Cornell are self selected. They're the ones who want to live here, right? If there was a college in in in your neighborhood, it would be filled with people who love the outdoors. It would be filled with people who like this way of life. Right? Cornell has that. And so and by the way, it's ranked number one in a critical category. It has more top 10 ranked departments than any school in the country. And and and that's because we have so many different things going on here. So it's it's a very special place. Speaker 0: So the the letter denouncing you was really just kabuki. I mean, was Speaker 1: It was kabuki. Yeah. It was it was tried to just put out the fire, it did. And and it I I paid a price. I lost a consulting gig at Pfizer because of it, because I was now a Nazi, you know, Speaker 0: and and Wait. Pfizer didn't stand by you? Speaker 1: I had consult I had consult there for twenty years, and they were going to Zoom consulting. And Pfizer doesn't need a controversial consultant either. So they just cleared the deck as well. So I don't hold it again. I hold against what I hold against Pfizer is the vaccine. I don't hold the guys I consulted with at Pfizer were great guys And Pfizer, they were trying to get their job done right, stuff like that. Speaker 0: Why do you, as an organic chemist, why do you hold the vaccine against them? Speaker 1: Because I think it killed a lot of people, and they knew it. I read the I I so I started writing about COVID right away. You can imagine, right, as scientists. I started networking. I started trying to figure it out. I'm in a group called Doctors for COVID Ethics for four years where we had every major anti vaxxer on the planet go through this. Speaker 0: Wait. So you're a consultant to Pfizer. You're a pretty famous, probably one of the most famous organic chemists in the country. So if you say the Pfizer COVID vaccine killed a lot of people, it can't be dismissed as crank talk. Speaker 1: Well, it could be because I'm not a vaccine expert. I'm an organic chemist. So I have certain technical skills that probably helped me borrow, and it's the genetics major as an undergrad that helps me. I don't use the biochem or the genetics, but it allows me to sort of read stuff. Speaker 0: But you think it killed a lot of people? Speaker 1: Well, the Pfizer papers, which are papers written about the clinical trials in the VAERS database, show huge number of of problems. Right? And and so our our the doctor for COVID ethics, we had every famous anti vaxxer. One of the first ones I I went to, it was Bobby Kennedy, we had you you name it. You name an anti vaxxer. You name the Malones, the Ryan Coles, the Bryan Artis's, the the you you can go on and on and on. They all went through this this group, and and we talked about things. Three or four years became the Speaker 0: Is anyone keeping track of how many Americans were killed by it? Speaker 1: Well, it's very hard because, first of all, every flu death got absorbed into the COVID stats. So flu disappeared, which can't be true. And if it did because we're locked down, then how'd we all get COVID? Right? So there's now studies coming out from other countries because we have too many too many people who will look very bad when this data comes out. But the Japanese, for example, have come out and said some very strong things about what didn't happen. The head of the Japanese medical system, I think, came out and said that you could correlate the number of deaths with the number of shots. Right. And so now that the gag order has been released, scientific studies are making it into the literature and there's already thousands. It's got to be one Speaker 0: of the great man made disasters of our lifetimes. Speaker 1: The lockdown too. I think you mentioned or someone did in one of your podcasts about the travesty, maybe it was Walter, about the travesty of locking down. You show me you you tell me how old a kid is and I can tell you what subjects he does not or she does not know. So if you were studying trigonometry the year that everything's locked down, you don't know trigonometry at all. We pretended to teach them, they pretended to learn, nothing happened. Speaker 0: And do you see that now? Speaker 1: Well, you could see it going through the system. So, for example, our first year grads who were taking organic chemistry went during lockdown, when they showed up, they were very weak in organic chemistry. Yeah, You can see it. So think of the poor kid who's five years old trying to learn how to read and write and everything through a mask. Right? That that that and and there's imprinting periods. Right? There's periods where you learn to read and write or or you're kind of in trouble. And so we we it was disastrous. It was absurd. And the whole thing was done by Fauci. But how could and our Zoom group, by way, had had Scott Atlas. And so I asked Scott. I said, Scott, was it malicious? Fauci and Birx? Did what they do as malicious? And I think it was. I mean, I think there's evil forces behind those two, but he took a different tactic. He said, you cannot fathom how stupid those two are. That was his answer. He said, Fauci never gave a scientific argument. Never. And he said, one day this is astonishing. Said, one day, this is all recorded, so I'm not, you know, talking behind his back. This is there is a recording on the Internet with us. He says one day he walks in with a scientific paper that Atlas had read, and so he's thinking, woah, Fauci is actually gonna say something scientific. Fauci went to say encephalomyelitis. Now, if you work at the seven eleven, you might stumble on that one, but if you're head of the entire health organization, you shouldn't. And he said he boxed it so bad it was unintelligible, and Atlas said, come again? What did you just say? And Fauci wouldn't repeat it. He said Birx was yanking shit off the Internet, making pie charts, having not a clue what it meant. Speaker 0: Not a clue. That's terrifying. Speaker 1: Now but you've heard all that Chris from Atlas, though, he didn't speak up, I don't think. Fauci. Atlas. I think he sat there. Speaker 0: Can I ask you to back up just a moment, though? So you're describing now incompetence, but you alluded earlier to malice. What do you think the dark forces behind Birx and Fauci were? Speaker 1: Well, I think they first of all, they love the fact we're talking about whether it came out of a lab in Wuhan because that way we're debating whether to blame the Chinese or not, right, when in fact I think it came out of a lab probably in North Carolina. A number of guys have tracked both the the disease and and the vaccine back years before it showed up on our dinner plate. I I think low level of malice would be Wait. You think it came out of Speaker 0: a lab in North Carolina? Speaker 1: Yeah. Ralph Barack. Yeah. He you can follow a guy named David Martin has followed the patent trail, and an artificial organism can be patented, not a natural one. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 1: And this you can follow the patent trail on COVID, and and and you can follow vaccine patent trail. Again, it's watch it get moved around, move from point a to point b. Speaker 0: If it was created in North Carolina, how did it get to Wuhan, and what Because was Speaker 1: we were funding we were funding research in Wuhan because we were not allowed to do game of gain of Sorry. I keep capping the table. Speaker 0: Oh, it's alright. This is a topic that deserves some table topping. Speaker 1: I I I've done podcasts where I have headphones, and I have four three Boston terriers and four, and they snore. I can't hear them because my headphones are noise dampening. And then I listen to podcast and hear this humongous amount of snoring behind me, so I'm aware of background noise. Speaker 0: You didn't bring the terriers this morning. Speaker 1: I didn't bring the terriers, no. So, but you Speaker 0: I just wanna flush this out a bit. You think it was created or begun in North Carolina, then brought to Wuhan for? Speaker 1: To be elaborated, to be studied, to be so I think we took everything offshore because it got gain of function got banned in The US. But I don't think we banned it. There were something like 36 bio bioweapons labs in Ukraine Yeah. Of US origin. Yes. I So why is Ukraine perfect? Ukraine's perfect. To run a bioweapons lab, you need first world infrastructure. Yep. And third world people to test shit on. Ukraine's pretty much got that, right? Because Fauci, for example, in The United States when he had to do clinical trials, when one of his lower rank they'd go to they'd go to foster care. They would do clinical trials on foster children. What? Yeah, you got to read Kennedy's book. Yeah, he did an estimate. They used an estimate of 13,000, 14,000 foster kids to do clinical trials. They said the kids would figure out they're getting sick and they wouldn't wanna take the meds. Speaker 0: That's so that's like not Speaker 1: So I think five g's been been doing damage to people and killing people for many, many years. Yeah. Speaker 0: So we made a pledge only to advertise products that we would use or do use, and here's one that I personally used this morning. It's Liberty Safe. There's a huge one in my garage. It is the company that protects your valuables. High end safe lines represent the pinnacle of American made. They're made here in The US, pinnacle of American made security and craftsmanship. They're more than just safes. They are a safeguard. They've got seven gauge thick American steel, and they're beautiful. Any kind of pink color you want, polished hardware. We have one. They're really good looking. They do not detract from a room. They enhance a room. I keep my father's shotguns and all kinds of other things in there. You can keep jewelry, money, anything else that you wanna keep safe. When you put your belongings in a Liberty Safe, you can just relax. Safes come equipped with motion activated lighting, drawers for storage, locking bars, dehumidifiers, and up to one hundred and fifty minutes of certified fire resistance. You can customize them any way you want. They are the best. We highly recommend them. Visit libertysafe.com to find a deal or learn about how you can protect what matters most to you. Demand the best. Liberty safe. But to do clinical trials on foster kids, I thought after the Second World War when both the Japanese and the Germans were doing things like that Nuremberg Code? Well, exactly. It was codified there, but in for scientists, but for the rest of the world and certainly American culture, we were taught that testing potentially dangerous drugs on people without their full consent or on the weakest among us or, you know, euthanizing mental patients, whatever, all that was bad. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: I thought that was one of the big lessons of the second world war. Speaker 1: Well, as we both know, there are no rules. Speaker 0: Well, that's boy, is that the truth? Speaker 1: There are no rules. Right? There are none. There are rules for us, you and me, but there are subjects for which people could be thrown in prison. You know, a great example would be Diddy. So what happened with Diddy? I think what happened with Diddy is Diddy had a bunch of very incriminating tapes. I think, you know, Epstein, light, and and I think they arrested him to round it all up all the day, and I think they did it to get all the data away from Diddy because he was being sued in civil court. And the guilty party said, we gotta get it out of there before the civil court gets it. And so they arrest Diddy. What they just convict him of? Nothing. They could have put him away for twenty years based on what he did to Justin Bieber. Right? They didn't even get him on any of that. So it's a classic it's a classic case. I I know I sound like a nutcase, but, yeah, you've had a lot of nutcases on your shows. Speaker 0: I had a gun. Speaker 1: My brother is trying to dial me back. His day, they're gonna think you're a nutcase if you talk about all the things you think about, and I go, well, I think that ship has sailed. You know, as I said to Speaker 0: Well, I thought that was the whole point of academic research was the, you know, the predicate for it, the basis of it, is free thinking. Speaker 1: Well, but according to Douglas Murray, I'm not supposed to talk about it unless I'm an expert. Speaker 0: Well, you are a demonstrable expert in your area. I mean Speaker 1: Which is not Diddy. It's Speaker 0: not Diddy. You're not a tenured professor of Diddy studies at Cornell? We could have it. Speaker 1: You know, we do have subjects. Speaker 0: And So you think the point of arresting Diddy was to shut down inquiry into what Diddy was doing? Speaker 1: Get the data, right? Speaker 0: Well, that's clearly the point of the first Jeffrey Epstein arrest. Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's laptop. Speaker 0: Tell me your view of Hunter Biden's laptop. Well, Speaker 1: Sydney what's her name? Lawyer. Come on. Sydney Powell. Yep. Elite lawyer, now down a few notches because she worked for Trump and that always gets you in trouble. Yep. Said that if Hunter Biden's laptop were ever released no, if Anthony Weiner's laptop were ever released, the government would fall. Weiner's laptop had kill switches in it. I mean, that that that it it was filled with crap that wasn't supposed to be there. We never get to see it. Supposedly, nine cops watched the videos on on on Weiner's laptop. They had to keep leaving the room because they couldn't stand what they were seeing, and all nine are now dead. And there's names and faces and deadness. Right? They're they're real people. Now you can say, well, maybe they died for other reason. I go, but it's still nine cops. And, you know, it's like the five cops who died after January 6. Right? Four of them were suicides. Out of according to AI, there were about 80 cops really in the thick of things. Four of them died from suicide. I don't need any more information to wonder what the hell is going on there. That's one of those stand alone observations where I go, that's not right. The math of that doesn't work for me. I've got pictures of Ukrainian see, I'm going off topic. I've got pictures of you known Ukrainian operatives with with you're not gonna believe this with the QAnon shaman guy. I think I have the horns in January 6. At January 6. What is that all about? I've got videos Speaker 0: of That sounds totally normal. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I've got videos Speaker 0: It's a national guard a 100 yards away not doing anything. Totally normal. Speaker 1: Videos of John Sullivan. Right? The guy who was supposedly Antifa, but Antifa said, no. He's a fed. Don't talk to him, who then filmed Ashley Babbitt getting shot. This guy's getting around. What's your image of an Antifa person? Lost soul, tattoos everywhere, right? No meaning in life. Right? Yeah. And no no path forward, really. I mean, these are nighs. Speaker 0: These are society's right. Speaker 1: If they're real, that is. If they're legit real. But, I mean, if you look at the mugshots Speaker 0: of Antifa arrest or the people who came to my house, the Antifa there, I mean, these are, you know, obviously, I disagree. They threaten my family. I don't like them and all that, but you also feel like these are, like, one step above homeless. Like, these are Right. Losers. Speaker 1: Right. And and so if he's on Tifa, it's really odd that he was a nationally ranked cyclist. What I know about nationally ranked anythings is their lives have purpose. Now there's a mugshot you did you follow this Patriot Front story? I'm really this this is now the helmet's on, the leash to the jungle gym is on. The Patriot Front guys, those guys who'd stomp around looking like neo Nazis who also were buff and had no pot bellies and covered their faces, get arrested and they're handcuffed with their backpacks still on and their their megaphone still over their shoulders. And and and and then I saw mugshots of them. Not a single tattoo. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: No tattoos. These are neo Nazis. Not a single tattoo. Speaker 0: They didn't have like waffen SS lightning No. Bolts on their Swastikos. You know? Speaker 1: Right? So so so we are in this big Walter Kernish. We're in this made for the Internet plot. Walter is great in his description of the I've been tracking the Manjoni story. It's not the right story. There's something wrong. And I Walter laid it out. Now what Walter didn't say is who's behind him. Speaker 0: That's obviously the question. I mean, you can look at all of these different stories, particularly the acts of violence, which are because they are acts of violence are, you know, examined much more closely than any other kind of act. And it, like, doesn't it doesn't make any sense. I mean, the the shooting of Trump a year ago in Butler, Pennsylvania is Speaker 1: just so sense. Everything do you know what I just read the other day? The guy who shot Thomas Crooks right. There were bullets flying all over that place, but it was a catastrophically poorly set up defense of Trump. But the guy who shot Thomas Crooks was the same guy who organized the protection of Trump. And they said, Oh, you know, he didn't get convicted of anything, and other guys didn't. Go, Well, so the guy who was in charge of making sure that after the assassination was done, he popped the assassin, is somehow not getting prosecuted. Why am I not shocked? Speaker 0: So you're saying he was the Jack Ruby figure here? Speaker 1: He was the Jack Ruby figure. Yes. So so what was odd about that story? Well, first of all, all the news agencies were there. This was a totally irrelevant rally in the an irrelevant place, Butler, Pennsylvania, and there's a stranger story there. And again, I I I just pick up these shards and sometimes they fit together into a story and sometimes it's just put it in your head, keep it there until you get more detail. There's a guy sitting behind Trump named Joseph Fusca. Fusca is his last name. I've seen him before many times. He was by the QAnon guys, which are a bunch of whack jobs, said to be you're not gonna believe it. Said to be John F. Kennedy junior waiting to come back and save the world, and I'm going, oh, you guys have lost your minds finally. You've really gone. It doesn't matter that that's a total crock. Fusca is this guy, and they say now his name is Fusca and whatever, you know, blah blah blah blah blah, But but he's one of supposedly JFK Jr. In disguise. Fusca was there sitting right behind Trump. I go, of all the rallies, there he is. Who is he? I don't know. And what's really interesting is Trump gets shot, everyone's reacting and Fusca's not. Speaker 0: And then there's two pieces of footage. You say you've seen him before, you've seen him in photographs before? Speaker 1: Oh, he had been talked about. I I've dug down some deep rabbit holes and find this guy. So one of the things you discover, you know this as well as anyone, you you think you're going down a rabbit hole and you discover Gobekli Tepe. You get down the rabbit hole and you go, this thing that this there's a there's an entire ecosystem down here that people don't know exists. Once once you it's like it's like once you you you ask, how did Kennedy get killed? And you go, oh, boy, you know, that that's troubling. Right? And then Building 7, which you talked with Ron Johnson, who, by the way, was in our Doc Sum group. Right? What I'm talking we had everyone. We had everyone. Once you got on one or two of these and you go, I I I can't trust anything. And I'm I work in a field where you're supposed to be able to get the facts and say, now here's an odd story. A friend of mine's binding all my annual reviews that I write. I write one blog a year. I've been thinking about why. Speaker 0: And I Can can you just pause and describe what that is? That that's really the reason I wanted to talk to you was because your interview is, you know, well known among people who are paying attention. What is it, and why do you do it? So the people trying to wreck our civilization want you to be passive. They want you weak so they can control you. Weakness is their goal. No. Thanks. Our friends at Beam, a proud American company, understand that our country can only be great if its people are strong. And that's why they've created a new creatine product to help listeners like you stay mentally sharp and physically fit. People like to mock creatine. 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Speaker 1: So stopped paying 100% attention to chemistry and started on the side looking at markets when I became a boomer with some wealth, and I started paying and I became I was a tech bull. And then by '98, I realized the markets were in trouble. I'd read enough books, read enough blogs, read enough articles, and and so and then that naturally led me to politics because if you don't understand politics, you don't understand economics. And in around o seven, I wrote a I used to on this chat board I was at, I'd write a summary at the end of the year, and part of it was to to to make sure that my fairly extreme views weren't costing me serious pain and suffering. And and and instead of getting 200 clicks because this group is about 200 of us talking, It went to, like, 4,000. I go, what happened? And he said, oh, I put it on my blog. Someone told me that. So so in o nine, I I decided to do it seriously. I thirty years of investing. So I wrote up this this thing. I said, thirty years of investing from from the cheap seats was the title. And it went wild, actually. And part of it was because because I'd been highly successful as a rank amateur through the nineties as a tech bull. I made 700% on WorldCom and then got out. Right? I made 700% on Dell Warner Lambert. I I thought I was a genius. And and so I had years where I made over a 100% without leverage. And and and and then I got out and I got out due to Y two k, which turns out to be a grift. Yeah. It took me decades to figure that out. I thought I just blew it. But no, a Silicon Valley selling software and hardware, and I can make that stuff every month, but it's not worth it. And then and then so so I started paying attention to politics, and then I just went deeper and deeper down rabbit holes. See I know I'm reading about Putin in 2012, trying to understand what's going on there and stuff like that. So so I just kind of naturally got on rabbit holes. Now, you can't market a blog worse than writing one a year, right? That's about as bad as you get, and I don't charge for it. So there's that. And then I realized, though, the reason it works for me is if I wrote a blog once a week, most of them would be garbage because imagine how many blogs would have written about how Trump and Elon are best friends. Right? Right. And now it seems irrelevant that I'd be writing about how Trump and Elon are enemies, and then a month from now it'll be irrelevant because they'll be best friends again. You're right? And so you could I could not write a weekly blog, and so what I do is is I my writing once a year gives me a long time to think about. So I get the idea and then I sort of watch and go, oh, look at that. That's a puzzle piece right there. So it essentially is book length. 250, 300 pages every fall. Speaker 0: Don't charge for it. Speaker 1: And I don't and I you also can't write it in March. That's not a year in review. So I usually end up with about 700 pages of links and notes. And if I see something we talked before about about using trite metaphors, you know, how we both hate it. But once in a while I'll see a way to insult a person. I'll go, Oh, I'm saving that. Right? Now, the other reason that's really great. Speaker 0: Where do people find it? Speaker 1: It's published at Peak Prosperity, and it's my pinned tweet, so it stays up there all year and then until I publish the next one. And it gives me the chance to collect the information, to ponder what's going on that year, and then and some things become irrelevant, so I don't write about them. Some things are not some things become trite, right? But I think my analysis of the twenty sixteen election, for example, is really good. The prophetic line. I was watching BET. Please don't get me to explain why I'm watching BET and black entertainment today or something, whatever. Television. And some burly black guy is talking about Trump, and he says, forget the messenger. Listen to the message. Listen to that. I'm going, holy moly. Right? Turns out he was the head of the end of of the new Black Panther Party. I go, Trump just got endorsed by the Black Panthers. So I and then I saw Jimmy Brown, the running back, say he will be a president of the people, and and all of a sudden and so I wrote, It might just be a flicker, but I think the black community is moving to the right. And boy was that ahead of its time. And so what I won't do is write about something that I was writing about. Why? Yeah. The other problem I face is that I don't write about stuff I'm an expert. I write about stuff I know nothing. So when I wrote about I've been following Putin, when the Ukraine war came, first thing I noticed, I bet you noticed it too, it wasn't a war. It was a police action, and they weren't killing people. They were moving troops across the border. They were talking to Ukrainians. They were and I kept saying to my wife, this not a war. You see some grandmother going, oh, this is just really terrible, you know, and I'm going, that's not a war. You wanna see a war? Look at Baghdad day one. Right. That's a war. That's what a war looks like. Right? You'd see an explosion from 20 miles away. You wouldn't know what blew up. Right? Like, my wife thought I was nuts. She goes, it's not a war. It's not a war. Well, it became a war because, as you and I both know, NATO wanted a war. And so it morphed from being a police action, which I think Putin was trying to throw a fastball past NATO's chin and saying back off on this And whole NATO and so when I wrote about that, I found about 20 to 40 guys who are trying to get it right, which includes you and includes guys like Max Abramson. Do I know do I have that right? Glenn Greenwald, the guy who died, what's his name, the guy who got killed by the Ukrainian Speaker 0: Gonzalo Lira. Gonzalo Lira. American who was murdered by the Ukrainian government. Speaker 1: And we could have gotten him out with a phone call and we chose not to 100%. Because the narrative was Putin's bad. Ukraine's a bunch of really nice guys, super nice guys since a democracy. What a crock of shit. That was a lie from head to toe. We wanted a war. We still want I have I have intelligence friends too, not like you, but I have them. And and I was talking to him the other day. I think he likes to talk to me because he can talk to me about these subjects. And in his universe, I'm the only guy he can talk to for which he's he doesn't have to worry cause everyone else in his world is connected, everyone else in his world. So I think he liked to have real honest conversations. One day we're on the phone, he says, do you do signal? I go, yeah. So we went to signal, he said someone was listening to us. Speaker 0: Boy. There's a lot of that. Speaker 1: There's a lot of that. Speaker 0: Yeah. I know. Speaker 1: So there's always a narrative. There's always one narrative, and then we're now in an era where you only get to talk about that narrative. You know that. I know that. You and I, we're just mutually. Speaker 0: Yeah. And and the the penalties for straying from the story are You get fired. Are real. Yeah. Totally. I mean, whatever. I there's been no age in human history where telling the truth, the real truth is rewarded. So Speaker 1: don't think that we where should you be first really won me over, you and I agree that when you were young, you were a punk. Fact that you're so proud of the metamorphosis is great. It may have come before this, but where I noticed it was the Las Vegas shootings where is we kinda talked a little bit of breakfast. Here's the funny story. They interviewed that night a guy named Mike Krohnk, and Mike Krohnk tells Speaker 0: The night of the shooting. The night Speaker 1: of the shooting. Speaker 0: That was 2017 maybe? Speaker 1: I can't remember. Yeah. And Mike told this story. He did look very emotional, which I found a little odd. I, by the way, think all the shootings within an error bar are not what they appear to be. I'll take it all the way back to Columbine if you want. But Mike Krohn talks about his friend getting shot three times in the chest from hundreds of yards away, and and later a marksman said, not possible. Too much spray. Sniper would be required to hit a guy three times. And and and the guy was just doing this. Right? And Mike says his friend stuck his fingers in the bullet his own bullet holes to stop the bleeding. I'm going, now you're lying. Why is Mike lying? Right away, red flag. Why is Mike lying? Speaker 0: And who is he, by the way? Speaker 1: Well, that's a great question. So Mike then finishes how they put him on a cart and wheeled him out. Speaker 0: May may I just ask why I'll tell you in Speaker 1: a minute. Speaker 0: Why did you know he was lying when he said his friend put his own fingers in Speaker 1: Because you don't you don't get shot three times in the chest and provide your own health care. Speaker 0: Fair. Fair. Right? We thought this through when we started this podcast a year ago, we decided we're never advertising anything that we or people on our staff don't use, period. We're only partnering with companies that we agree with and endorse actually in our personal lives. So we want to announce a new partnership with a survival company we trust most. Last Country Supply is the name of our collaboration. Last Country Supply. I have a big surplus of survival food from that great company. If you get a bucket of food with a twenty five year shelf life, 2,000 calories a day, potatoes, rice, bread, drinks, you feel a lot better. Let's say there's an EMP attack or civil disturbance and you don't know what could happen in the future, You are prepared, and you are protecting your family with Last Country Supply products. So head to lastcountrysupply.com to shop for our new collection. Bulk up now. There is no scenario where you will regret being prepared. Speaker 1: So then, like YouTube, see it rolls over fifteen seconds, and then it goes to the next YouTube. And we're we're watching Vegas like you watch 09:11. Right? It was was really 500 people. It it is the biggest shooting since probably Gettysburg. Yes. Right? When was the last time you heard a gun antagonist say, remember Vegas? We gotta get rid of guns. Speaker 0: Never. Speaker 1: Never. Right. And you know why. So it rolls to the next interview, and it's Mike Kroc, new network, same guy. He tells the same story. Now he's looking a little more emotional, and his story changes just a little, just a little around the edges. And then it rolls to the next interview and there's Mike Kroc again. And I go, why? You got 22,000 people and why are you interviewing Mike Kroc? And then there were oddities that were showing up like some lady walking through the crowd saying you're all going to die tonight and they wilt, They carted her away and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Weird stuff. And so I tried to figure out who my crank was. He's just some hick from Alaska. Right? He's just some hick from Alaska. After the fact, I looked and just picture him holding an elk by the horns, you know, that he shot. The next day, the the head of the police said there's no way one guy did it. The following day he said one guy did it. Takes a long time to show one guy did it, right? That's that's something you don't know. There's a lot of debris before you figure that out. There's now a documentary called Route 41, so I dug into this. I noticed is you stayed with a story for about two weeks maybe, and you were bringing up and Coulter jumped in, you know, Paddock was making money. How? Playing video poker. That's his that's the way he's making a living. That's like saying I'm a professional crackhead. Speaker 0: And Speaker 1: and then what happens is there was shooting all over the place. There was shooting everywhere. Speaker 0: In the city that day? Speaker 1: In the city that night. And so now there's if you don't believe me, there's this documentary called Route 41, and they got stuff I didn't know about, but they also got stuff that that I so it's kind of an answer key for me to use academic terms. And if you watch Route 41, you will see there were shooters everywhere. There are cop cameras showing shooters. Then remember the guy got shot in the leg up on the floor where Paddock was? Speaker 0: Yes. The the hotel boy. Speaker 1: Or something. Right? Some some illegal with two Social Security numbers. Hello. And and and and then afterwards, reporters tried to get to his house. His house was being protected by by cars. They had no license plates. And and then all of sudden he goes to Mexico and when asked, well, where did he go? They said, well, he was planning a trip to Mexico. So when I wrote it by, I said, oh, by the way, Jesus, when you get back, could you stop in? We've got some questions for you. Right? And then he comes back and he does one interview on Alan DeGeneres. And Alan introduced him saying, and he's there with a handler I had already seen. I'm going, wait a minute, guy, I've been seeing that guy a lot, that other guy. So Jesus is looking at his feet. His name isn't Jesus, but it's something like that. Alan introduced saying, this is the only interview you're gonna do and you gotta get it off your chest. I'm going, oh, shit. Here we go. And then and then and then the handler's doing all the talking. Jesus is looking at his feet. And then we never hear about Jesus again. Probably he's in some shallow grave somewhere because he's too inconvenient. But Speaker 0: I tried to interview him at the time. Speaker 1: Really? Speaker 0: Yes. Couldn't get to him. He drove to Mexico from Vegas. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 0: Two of them did. Yeah. Following an escort. Yeah. Then he came back, and, yeah, I I tried my hardest. Speaker 1: Alan works for man the company that owns Mandalay. Speaker 0: His handler. Speaker 1: Yeah. No. No. Ellen DeGeneres. Speaker 0: Ellen I'm so sorry. Speaker 1: Yeah. And so so so they're buttoning it down. Now what you see from Route 41 video is there were just an enormous amount of chaos. There's enormous number numbers of shooters. Even that night, were seeing videos from cab drivers saying they're shooting over here, they're shooting over there. Was and and and there would be some chaos, but there's way too much. There's guys who took audios and said, here's here. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. You hear that that that that that that. So you could hear multiple guns, the whole thing. So then what happened? Mike Krohnck. I start reading trauma surgeons saying there's something wrong with the story. You know, if you get hit with, you know, what was it, AR 15 or something? You And a three zero eight. Speaker 0: Gonna you're gonna die Speaker 1: out there. You're gonna bleed out right there. Even if it doesn't hit a major artery, just gonna turn your leg to jello. Speaker 0: Breathe chest wounds from a rifle? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so what would he look like? And so then I saw an interview of a of a young woman and she's sitting there in a chair in the hospital and they're interviewing her. I'm going, you look pretty perky. And and and then Mike Kroc with a news crew goes in and interviews his friend. Now, first and foremost, know HIPAA says you ain't bringing a news crew into a hospital room. Second, we know three shots of the chest he'd be in the ICU. The only way you know he's alive is that there'd be a beeping on the screen and he'd have hoses coming out of every orifice and he would look dead. And so they take the news crew and they interview his friend. He's got a nasal cannula. A nasal cannula. So I'm sitting there thinking, oh, so you're you're talking with three holes in your chest. What are you sticking your fingers so the air doesn't come flying out of your chest holes? Right? And then I notice the screen's not even plugged in. Now what is Mike Cronk now? He's a state senator from Alaska. In Alaska. I think he's a state level state senator. What? Yeah. Who's the chief of police? He became governor of Nevada or something. Right? So so, again, so there's a guy named John Cullen who did an analysis of the shooting, and his conclusion Speaker 0: A relative? Speaker 1: A relative? Yeah. No. No. No. No. No. This is all different. John worked for Oracle. He's some on the spectrum code head. He also analyzed the Butler shooting, the audios of the Butler shooting. Speaker 0: He's an on the spectrum code head. Speaker 1: He's on the spectrum code head. He he he sort of bears down and grabs on something a little too firmly, I think, but but but he brings Speaker 0: his on the spectrum code heads. Speaker 1: Yeah. I know. And he there was pretty good evidence that a lot of the shooting was coming from helicopters behind the Mandalay, and he tracked the transponders turning on and off behind the Mandalay. The story was that Mohammed bin Salman was on the Top Floor. Speaker 0: The crown crown prince of ruler Saudi Arabia. Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. A guy who lots of people would like to kill. And his theory is is that the Saudis tried to flush him out of there, and on the way out, they would camp him. Now they blew it. If that's the story, they blew it. I think the helicopter idea is not bad. But I I did a couple podcasts with John, and I said, John, but what about all the shooting on the ground? And John was kinda dismissive. I go, you can't dismiss it. You can't let that stuff go. Your models gotta include that. But it occurred a year later, Mohammed remember when Khashoggi got killed? What was his name? Jamal Khashoggi. Now a non Khashoggi is one the most famous CIA guys on the planet. Jamal Khashoggi is one who got diced up and fed to the camels. Yeah. Now he's a New York Times reporter. I think he was also CIA. Speaker 0: Washington Post columnist. Yeah. And he was killed in Speaker 1: In the embassy. In Speaker 0: Istanbul, I believe. Speaker 1: Okay. Supposedly, on the anniversary of the Vegas shootings, supposedly Mohammed bin Salman had a party, locked the doors, and showed a video of him getting sliced up and said to the royal sitting in the room, don't even think about it. Now when I wrote about Khashoggi, everyone was having a cow over Khashoggi, right, when he got killed. I'm going, we're killing tens of thousands of Yemenis. We killed 5,000,000 people in The Middle East directly and indirectly due to our post nine eleven responses. Yes. Right? And I called them ODK, one dead Khashoggi. I said, it is insane to worry about one dead guy in a region of the world where people die for no reason all the time. Speaker 0: Who was at war with this his own government, the Saudi government? I mean, I'm, you know, I'm obviously not for vivisecting people, but I also think, like, they're yeah. There there's a scale of of evil, and starving kids is worse than what happened at Khashoggi. I agree with you. Speaker 1: Right. So so you were the only mainstream guy who I watched steadily on the story, staying with the Vegas shootings, noting that there's something wrong. Speaker 0: We got very hassled by law enforcement. Speaker 1: I'm Speaker 0: sure you did. Was you know, I worked at Fox News, obviously, at the time, and big supporters of law enforcement. I've always been a big supporter of law enforcement. We've never gotten hassled anywhere. Just the opposite. Oh, you work for Fox News. Oh my gosh. Of course. Speaker 1: Slow down. Official law enforcement is what got you. Man. Speaker 0: I mean, they blocked our camera position. Oh, yeah. They were totally opposed to us doing that. I've never had that experience. Speaker 1: So so let's stand the shootings just briefly. Uvalde. There's problems all over that shooting. Remember that shooting in Texas where the guy got Speaker 0: in Knew the knew the mayor. Speaker 1: Yes. There's problems all over the place because, first of all, there's something like 800 law enforcement guys within reach of the damn thing, and that 's a ton of, like, 5,000 people. And and then they didn't go in for seventy eight minutes or something. Go remember. Excuse me. You show me 10 cops, probably eight of them have kids. By all I'm right now, I'm reading a book called The Moral Animal. It's about human behavior. Yep. And and out of those eight, eight would have gone in and said, I don't care what you say. I'm going in. Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: You you give me a soccer mom. She's going in. Right? 100%. And then there was the mom who did go in, and her story was incoherent. Her story she came out and she said this and then she said this, and it was not consistent. I'm going, that's just a narrative thrown on top of it. Speaker 0: So what are we looking at here? So K FAB. What does that mean? Speaker 1: K FAB is something Eric Weinstein wrote about. He was asked to write an essay with a bunch of other scholarly types, and he said that politics was kayfabe, it was professional wrestling, and there's all these layers, there's all these tricks, it's way more sophisticated than people think, The way you get the way you engage the audience and you have some reality and some non reality and things change, and he he talked about politics being kayfabe. I I don't think anything you see can be interpreted literally and at face value. Now, what would be the purpose, however? Well, as I was telling you, a friend's binding all my annual reviews, and I will probably make a thousand dollars off this. I mean, is not getting rich. I'm paid probably 0.001¢ per hour pay for this task. I had to go back I've been proofing the drafts from previous years. And what I noticed about twenty thirteen, fourteen, fifteen is something's changed. And what's changed is you could get facts, and and you felt like you were getting and the stories would break, and they would stay that way, and and they wouldn't be shifting around. And you could say, okay. Here's what happened in here here, and this piece fits in here. And now you can't. Now it's like we talked about using trig metaphors. Here's one, but I really like it. It's like when your GPS starts randomly rerouting you and our GPS just keeps ramming, rerouting, rerouting, I go, I'm not taking that right turn now, you know, so you just boot the GPS, you break out your gasketeer and you figure out where And you're so we our GPS is rerouting us constantly. And and one of your guests, Mike Benz, who I occasionally chat with briefly, who's very impressive, and as as I've said, I don't know everything about him, and I don't mean just in a casual way, I think he's I think there's a complex story there, but right now he's saying the right stuff. He gave a talk one day where he talked about how around 2013 the so called deep state, which is a term I've tried to figure out where it came from, and I think the guy who gets the most credit is kind of Peter Dale Scott who wrote about drug trafficking, Berkeley professor, he called it deep politics, but I think it predates that, but that's where I get it from. He said the deep state realized they were losing control of the narrative. They had underestimated the Internet and social media. Exactly. And as a consequence, they had to get a hold of it completely. And so then this is where we're at. Now we thought Trump was going to save us. We thought Elon was going to save us. My Twitter feed is a dumpster fire. So instead of taking away data, they provide excess noise. So now so now instead of trying to suppress the signal, you just increase the noise. Speaker 0: I think that's very deep, and I think it points to the what's happening. I would think that's clearly true. Speaker 1: So what is the fact? That was the title last year's write up. What is the fact? Speaker 0: Yeah. It's it's impossible. You can't actually control the and you can't restrict the flow of information across the Internet. You debris out there. Speaker 1: Yeah. Right. So it's just like it's a like the the the pilots who who throw the debris out the back of the plane so that the guided missiles don't know what to Speaker 0: Of course. Exactly. Right. Right. Speaker 1: And and they also throw out debris so that so that then they can prove that it's not true so you feel like an idiot. Speaker 0: QAnon was clearly that. Speaker 1: QAnon. Yeah. QAnon. What was QAnon? I don't know. I don't either. I I avoid you know, I'd be listening to something and it would have useful information and all of a sudden then it would show the whole and here's Trump and his generals are gonna save the world. Speaker 0: No. Agree. Speaker 1: For Christ's sake. Speaker 0: But the interesting I never knew anything about QAnon. I never paid any attention at all. I have a good friend who I really admire, is much smarter than I am, who, because he is smarter than I am, took like a year to look into QAnon. What'd he get? I don't fully understand it, but here's what I understand is that, you know, some of the predictions of QAnon came true. I mean, it's a sophisticated thing. It's not just Speaker 1: Oh, I think it's Speaker 0: a bunch of ex spooks. For sure. It's not a, you know, bunch of college kids on No. 4chan or whatever they claim it was. Speaker 1: These are guys who are probably pissed that the system went bad. Speaker 0: It would the point of it and it's unclear, you know, who's behind it. I have some theories, but people I know actually, but but I don't know if they're true. But what I what is obvious to me is that it was it's a control mechanism. Mhmm. Trying to siphon off some of that energy and move it in a Speaker 1: Siphoning off the energy. Speaker 0: That's right. Less dangerous direction. Speaker 1: Right. Focus on Wuhan. Right? Focus on the lab in Wuhan. That's siphoning. It's all American politics. Speaker 0: Like, have a race war. Leave us alone as we loot your country. Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. It's if there's a meme out there, there's a joke where the king and his his right hand man, his chief of staff are looking at the angry townspeople. Some have pitchforks and some have torches, and the king says, don't you have to worry. You just convince the guys with the pitchforks or the enemies of the guys with the torches. Speaker 0: So you said that a couple times. Focus on Wuhan. I've I've fallen for that for that squirrel squirrel Wuhan thing. Squirrel. Why Speaker 1: A blind nut finds a squirrel. Speaker 0: That's funny. That's a rule. I'm stealing that. Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Just making making a note. That's an original. I never know if I heard it and forgot where I got it, but that Speaker 0: that's an original. It's the squirrel. What is that distracting you? Speaker 1: I think it is great. You put me in an asylum overnight. In an asylum overnight? Yeah. Yeah. My my my hotel's a former asylum. Is it really? Yeah. You didn't ask? No. Oh, yeah. It's a former asylum. I said, you finally got it right. Well, I Speaker 0: think there's there's wisdom here. Speaker 1: There is wisdom here. Speaker 0: What are they distracting us from by having us focus on Wuhan? Speaker 1: Well, huge amounts of grift. You had you interviewed Katherine Austin Fitz. Yes. I've been blessed. A smart woman. So I come out of nowhere. Have no credentials beyond those that I can create. Right? And I think one of the ways you created is by being truthful. Yes. And I know truth is everything to you. Speaker 0: I try to make it that. Speaker 1: And actually in this book, The Moral Animal, they say the reason we self delude is so that you can be truthful and deceive your opponent. That's what self delusion is. Speaker 0: Yes. And and I practiced a lot Speaker 1: of that. I've been adopted by some people who didn't have to adopt me. And so, for example, I'm tied with Steve Hanke, who's a famous economist, and and Catherine has been very supportive, and and and there's several dozen who who somehow have decided that that I'm worth their time and and and help me, And and so they're they're useful to chat with. They're useful to but but Catherine's story and a lot of people think Catherine's nuts. Right? But but she talks about the huge amount of resources that have been siphoned off and the tens of trillions of dollars of resources that have been I Speaker 0: know Katherine Austin Fitts you can disagree with her. She's not nuts. That's not true. Speaker 1: She's not what? Speaker 0: Nuts. Oh, no. I don't think she is nuts. No. That's right. No. No. A No. Grounded person. Speaker 1: Could have things wrong, but And that's totally I had a friend, another friend who I think is phenomenal, tell me that she's nuts and don't don't don't get near her. And I said, no. I don't think so. And and but we all can get sucked down into the rabbit hole to the point you can get out too. There are days where I wish, why don't you just go play golf? Yeah. Or yeah. Right now I'm on a my house is hanging off a 100 foot cliff looking west over Keuga Lake. I can literally throw rotten fruit off my deck and drop it down into the drink from I'll show you afterwards. I'll show you photos. It's the view is such that if there are places in the country where the view would cost $20,000,000, not in Ithaca, of course. And and and if people come and visit, they should. It's beautiful. I can't remember why I said that. That's probably You're saying Speaker 0: that people dismiss, you know, the the the few who are just committed to pursuing truth no matter what as crazy, and you gave Katharine Stott and Fitz as an example, and but you said you can actually go crazy Oh, yeah. Yeah. By looking too carefully into what actually happened. Speaker 1: Turns out broke the small New York State smallmouth bass record about three years ago, broke the New York State largemouth bass record last year, and I used to fish all the time when I was a kid, I haven't fished it. What's wrong with this picture? Well, if Speaker 0: you got smallmouth bass there, I think you need to fish it on a fly rod. I know. It'll totally change your life. Speaker 1: It's not a fly rod. It's a deep lake. It it's a Speaker 0: But she can catch them on the surface with a popper. And if you do, if you catch a sizable smallmouth on a popper on a fly rod, you know, it Speaker 1: I'm a 18 foot deep shoal guy. Sinking line. But but so, you know, my wife thought that I had fish removed from my thumbs because she never saw a picture of me that didn't have a fish hanging off my my hand, but I haven't fished it. Speaker 0: Because you're absorbed in trying to figure out what's happening. Speaker 1: Raising kids. I'm absorbed in other things. My wife has issues I gotta help her with, and and I I have this fear of buying a boat. Speaker 0: But you as someone who has taken, you know, ample intellectual energy and intelligence and focused it on trying to figure out what are we watching, which I think is like a fair way to describe what you're doing, like, what is this? What's the truth of it? Has that been worth doing? Speaker 1: That's the question. That is the question. And and there was a time where I thought if I could get to the truth, then then that would help in some way, but now it's not as clear. Speaker 0: Tell me what Well, Speaker 1: you know, now first of all, what is the truth? Right? The truth is now becoming very ambiguous. Last year, I wrote about the history of World War two. I did a mini Daryl Cooper. Yes. And it started when I read a book by Diana West, who would be good if you interviewed her. And it was it's this all revisionist history of World War two and you go, well, why would you wanna read that? Well, it turns out I think the story we got about World War two is all wrong. Speaker 0: I think that's right. Speaker 1: And and then I read about FDR, and FDR's right hand man was a Soviet spy. Speaker 0: Certainly was. Right? And and therefore Confirmed. Speaker 1: We should have been. One can make the argument we should have sided with Hitler and fought Stalin. Patton said that, so and and maybe there wouldn't have been a holocaust. Right? You know, there's a but but the the but Stalin was awful by any metric, and we we we weren't his ally. The story is that there were a few missing American soldiers at the end of World War two in Russian territory. Knew. 15 to 20,000 were missing, and we left them there. And then you read about Pearl Harbor. We all sort of know the Pearl Harbor stories, not what we're told, but I dug into that and you find out the pro we knew to the morning that Pearl Harbor was Stalin going get was going to be attacked. He wanted us to take the Japanese office flank and FDR's right hand man was okay with that because he was a Soviet spy, right? Then I read about FDR and the Great Depression, find out that every single penny he spent trying to help forgot Amity Schleys, the forgotten man, was spent to buy votes every last penny. He was a sociopath, and every the only thing he could do is lie. He was a compulsive liar. His his inner circle had to constantly cover for his lying, and and and and and the only thing he's used for now is every time you want to grow government, you cite FDR. And and so so I've read a half a dozen books that sort of went at these different angles and wrote about it. So I start out knowing nothing and then I write about it and I try to write to learn, which is the most terrifying part of AI by the way. If you take out the writing, you take out you take out the thought. Completely agree. The other thing that scares me about it, boy, they're a squirrel. AI's gonna make this system very unforgivingly brittle. I'm I'm not worried as much about the authoritarian slant that Elon occasionally talks about, which might be just to fake us out. Who knows? I am worried that we're gonna reach a point where, you know, when everything everything computer does is binary. So you go to the grocery store, you slip your credit card in, it says you're good to go or didn't work. Swipe it again. Didn't work. Sorry. You're out of here. Right? They debank people. This is a big problem. What happens when everything is so AI'd up that that that there's no person anywhere with an earshot who can help you at all. No one who can say, okay. Let me let me get this for you. Speaker 0: Right. There's been a misunderstanding or there's There Speaker 1: yeah. Speaker 0: I had a few other nuance required. Speaker 1: Happened on the other day on a credit card where I was talking to a lady, and it kept sending me in these loops, and she finally straightened out. But what happens when the code is being written by computers so there's no human who understands the code? So the system will be very brittle, be very unforgiving. Forget about whether it's used nefariously. Forget about whether someone uses it as an authoritarian tool, which is very real possibility, and I worry about that a lot. Just the fact that no one will know who's driving the cab ever on anything. And and also now you're taking out the intellectual part. So when I write, when you write, when I write a scientific paper, the project's not done until I've written it because that's where you you you lay it out. And if you can't put it on paper coherently with no internal contradictions, you're not done. Speaker 0: You're not done understanding it. Speaker 1: You're not done understanding it. The writing is understanding. Speaker 0: I so I think people who don't write for a living or aren't forced to write regularly don't understand this concept is a hard one, but it's through writing, or I would also say speaking, you know, public speaking, that putting concepts into words makes the concepts intelligible to the person who's articulating them. Like, you don't really understand something until you've been forced to write about it. Speaker 1: It's like a comedy shop. You go you know, the the great comedians will go down to the cheapo comedy shops to practice, to figure out what works and what doesn't work. Right? And then they go on Johnny Carson. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 1: And so so you write away writing, there's no thinking. Right. So I read about Maui, the fires. I wrote about that. Very clearly a land grab. You may remember how many kids died? No. Do you remember the USA article said 750 kids are missing? Yep. Right? When a kid's missing after something like that, they're dead. But they're not missing. They're dead. Maybe a couple found their way. Someone drove them out of town, but they're dead. Try to find anywhere a statement about dead kids now. You can't find it. You go to Wikipedia. You you search the word child. You search the word. You read it. There's no mention of dead children. There were 750 kids missing according to USA Today. Then all of sudden the governor is saying, well, you know, we're worried about land speculators, so we're gonna buy the land up so that the speculators can't get it. I go, so you can sell it to your friends? Right? Is it possible maybe they mowed down Lahaina because they want to put up resorts and things? Right? But what also was out there was this idea of directed energy weapons starting the fires. Now, I think that was a dead end. I don't think directed energy weapons were used even though there's a it's they're called DEWs. Even though there's a DEW facility on Maui, you don't need that. And there were videos. I go, I think those are fake. So I found nothing, but I used it as an excuse to read up on DEWs. And I was reading Rand reports from forty years ago and and Speaker 0: What is a directed energy weapon? Speaker 1: It's basically Star Wars. And so it's Reagan's Star Wars, and everyone said, oh, that's just science fiction. I go, well, Gorbachev seem to get wanna get rid of them every chance he got. So Gorbachev took him very seriously. So it turns out what you do is you put something in space, and it shoots some sort of energy, guided energy down to the surface of the earth, and it can the different frequencies have different efficacies, and so some are really good at hitting a target, some broaden out like microwaves are different than than some sort of ultraviolet laser. I'm not very good at this stuff, but and then I started reading about how what they do is they use a pulse of one laser to punch a hole through the atmosphere and then the second pulse would go through that hole. I mean, it's really clever stuff. This is forty year old Rand reports. What do they have behind the paywall forty years later? Now the best, I think, evidence of a DEW being used, and I was reading about fires in different places where trees were burning that shouldn't have burned and cars I wrote about it. If someone wants to go read it, that was a couple years ago. The best evidence of a DEW so if you've got these, you've to test them, right? This is like why you need why you need, you know, bioweapons labs in Ukraine. You gotta test them. You can't use lab rats. You look at the Quebec fires, satellite imagery of the Quebec fires, very mysterious. About 26 ish fires started simultaneously. How do you know some well, if a fire starts and then another one starts, it'll be downwind, so you'll see it'll look like the Hawaiian Islands. Right? Right. Boom, all at once. 26 fires in a crudely buckshot pattern. There was 350 miles in diameter. Boy, that's a determined arsonist or at least 26 of them. Yeah. With In the middle of nowhere. Speaker 0: Yeah. With helicopter I mean, there no roads. So Speaker 1: But but that and so it knows a cell phone can't do it, you know, nothing right there in the middle of nowhere, and all of a sudden, they all start simultaneously, and I'm going, okay. That probably was them testing out their weapons. And we have a lot of wars to test weapons. Right? Speaker 0: So you so your your basic overarching theory is around 02/1415, it became clear to the people running the world that you can't keep information under wraps anymore because the Internet is impossible to control. And so you had to flood people's brains with extraneous and misleading information. Speaker 1: And shut down people. They shut they booted the president of The United States off Twitter. Yeah. How is that possible? Speaker 0: Because he was a racist. Speaker 1: Shut up racist. That's what they told me. Shut up racist. Speaker 0: Was a racist. Speaker 1: Right. And, you know, so many there's something like 70,000 got booted off Twitter. My sister-in-law who's she had a Twitter feed. She can't get it back. You know, somehow, I don't know how I Speaker 0: saw What was her crime? Speaker 1: She must have said something favorable about Trump or something. I don't know. Speaker 0: So but the control of information, the shaping of people's understandings of the world around them, that's that's the whole game right there. Speaker 1: So I used to say the Internet was democracy's greatest hope and worst enemy, and that it was a battle. I don't think we're gonna win it, and the reason I don't is because it's too powerful, and so whoever has control of it will then have that power. So it's only a battle for who gets control of it. Speaker 0: Control of information. Speaker 1: Control of the the digital world. Yeah. Speaker 0: So if you see voices out there dissenting from the Speaker 1: I hear voices, Tony. Speaker 0: If you if you see if you see or hear voices that are dissenting from the official storyline, they're gonna have to be silenced or eliminated, mean. Speaker 1: Well, look at what happened. Look at the ambushes that occurred when Thomas Massie, who I think is great, Rand Paul, who I think has matured immensely, and who is the third Republican who who stepped away from the narrative, and all of a sudden the attacks were relentless. Now that could just be Trump being Trump. It wasn't just Trump attacking them, though. I know. Marjorie Taylor. Marjorie Taylor Greene, who, by the way, is nowhere near as stupid. I mean, she's not even stupid. Oh, I know. She ran a construction company. Speaker 0: Oh, I know. And her She just doesn't have whatever that normal The fear that controls people in DC where like, I can't Speaker 1: But how do you turn on Thomas Massey? Marjorie Taylor Greene at least played a role in KFAB that you can imagine drawing fire. Massey's this guy, you know, who who built his own house and fixes his own car, and he's he's an engineer. He's he's he's 's he's he archetype of who we ought to be. Speaker 0: As a country. Speaker 1: As a country. I so vehemently agree with turned on him. Yeah. Well, I haven't. We know why they turned on him. Speaker 0: I texted with him this morning. No. I I mean, you know, you could say I disagree with with Thomas Massey, but if you think Thomas Massey is the problem Speaker 1: You are the problem. I couldn't agree more. Speaker 0: I couldn't agree more. Just because, first of all, he's a decent man, which always matters to me, and I think it should matter to all of us. You could, you know, give Thomas Massey a routing number, and he's not going to take a dollar. He's just not. He's not going He's Speaker 1: the only one without a handler. Speaker 0: That's true. And and I think we should admire that even if you think that all members of congress should be required to have handlers. It's okay to live in a world where one doesn't. That's what I find Speaker 1: so Right. It's not okay to live in a world where everyone else does. Speaker 0: No. I agree with you, but I just find what's so interesting, and there's a religious quality to all of these conversations that I find so striking. It's like, it's okay if you have, you know, all this power, all this money, if you run-in the US government or whoever you are with a lot of power, you know, you can afford to have some percentage of the population not play along. Like, you don't need doesn't need to be an Albanian election in 1982. Like, you can have some descent. Speaker 1: Unless you're an authoritarian state. Speaker 0: I guess that's right. I mean, but even in an effective authoritarian state, it's Saudi Arabia in The Emirates. These are, you know, basically, theocracies. They don't they don't agree with that, but they you know, these are Islamic states under Sharia law. You can kinda dissent. It's okay. You just can't do anything really threatening, of course. Right. But more dissent is allowed in Abu Dhabi than in DC. I just find that just absolutely incredible. Like, what is this? Why why can't they allow Thomas Massey to just, like, have his own Massey views? Speaker 1: He's a vote. He's a vote? Okay. Speaker 0: But you got you got hundreds of others. Like, I I just think it's weird. There's this desire to make sure that nobody sings off the song sheet, like, and that person must be killed. And I wow. I just I don't enforce that among my own children. So Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm talking about? No. I absolutely know We what talking used to allow opposing views. Speaker 0: Yeah. I mean, look. If someone is really a threat to the system well, I think that should be allowed personally because the people on the Speaker 1: government in what way. But yes. Speaker 0: In what way? I have a very wide strike zone for that. But I get it if the system is like, I'm sorry. You're an actual threat. We have to kill you. Okay. Systems exist to preserve themselves. I understand that. What I really can't even comprehend is someone out there in a place I've never been and never will go among 350,000,000 people is making a noise that I disagree with. I must crush him. What is that? That's just weird to me. Why are you going to the effort to shut down Speaker 1: all dissent? I I don't know. But But it's that's that's That's what's happening. Oh, I know. Not to swing the topic yet again, let me let me get back to the universities. People don't understand universities. There are people who do, obviously, but the average person doesn't. So so people are gonna say I'm talking my book. Let me let me take this opportunity with your gargantuan following to explain how universities work Speaker 0: so that Well, let me just say before you begin that I'm amazed by the broadness of your thinking right or wrong. You're certainly thinking thoughts that most people don't allow themselves to think, and you are a tenured professor at an Ivy League college, and you still have your job apparently. So that does say something. Speaker 1: It would be hard to fire me. Apparently. I mean, part of problem one of reasons I got canceled is because I twice fought unionizations. Yep. And the first time was at the request of the dean of faculty. Second time was at the request of the provost of late night phone call. You gotta fight this. Gotta You put together a team, and that's the now president. And so if they fired me, that group was sort of behind my cancellation, so firing me would have been hard because, you know, you know, witness number one would be, did you ask column to to fight the unions, and did that lead to, you know, them canceling him and stuff like that? I really think Cornell is great. I think most universities are fine. We needed a fastball past our chin. Great example, Claudine Gay. Shouldn't be president of Harvard, shouldn't be on the faculty, shouldn't have a PhD in my opinion. That is the sign of the rot that has gotten into the universities, but then it's still an exceptional rot. So I I don't see people at Cornell that look like Claudine Gay to me. And and if you actually look in the the whole DEI thing, you say, well, universities are super duper DEI, and I go, you guys are forgetting that a year ago or two years ago, if you weren't DEI, you got destroyed. The whole system was geared up to make sure you paid dearly if you weren't DEI, so you had to have your deans of diversity and your you you the the the world was demanding it. Don't forget this is a world where where where biological men were were competing in women's sports. They still kind of are, but at least it's now starting to dissipate. And that was considered totally normal and was considered rational. And if you fought it, you get fired and things like that. So so the universities were simply responding. Now they'd gotten way left wing. My colleagues were all hired, all hired based on their skills, guaranteed. I would I'd remember a case if it was a DEI hire. I remember a case because I would have fought it. I would have screamed. I don't shut up on things like that. We try to find the best person in the world to hire, and we go for that person if we can, and we do pretty well. And so if you were on a campus, you wouldn't see what we're hearing about. I don't think. You'd walk around the campus, you go, everything just looks pretty normal. As you're Speaker 0: in the hardest of the hard sciences though, do you think that Speaker 1: That's the problem. If I walked over the Arts Quad, I'd see some Looney Tunes. Right? And we're we're now just the cost of an education is too high to waste it. And so if you're gonna spend $300,000, you can't you can't go into a career that you make 40,000 or that you make 25 because you're a barista. Yeah. Right? It's just no longer even viable, so you have to. So colleges if I were president of Cornell, I put together an elite committee of people I absolutely trusted and say, you guys are in charge of trying to figure out where we should be in twenty years and how to get there because because we can't be here in twenty years. It's not gonna work. Arts and sciences and this whole idea of this broadly based education was formed prior to the cost and was formed when wealthy people went to college. You could be frivolous if you want, and getting a sheepskin could get you onto Wall Street and be the lead analyst for all the .coms, Henry Blodgett style. Right? Those days are gone, and so colleges are gonna have to tighten up, but but my colleagues are, I would say, on average, out of 20 out of 30 colleagues, I'll say maybe I think 27 of them are left of center, and I can't explain why. Now when I talk to them, totally rational people, totally reasonable people. The way it works as a chemist is you are an entrepreneur. You get a job. They give you start up money to get started. You have to then go raise money. Funding rates are ballpark maybe 15% of the people who get funded. By the way, the ones who never get funded, they've dropped off, so that 15% is people still trying. And I'm gonna brag, I put 21 in a row successfully. Do the math on that. That's that's improbable. But my colleagues are constantly battling. They're putting together this program. They're running research groups of anywhere from five to 30. No one pays for that. They raise the money from the federal system. You say, well, the Fed shouldn't pay the money. Well, years and years ago, we decided the way to run a research program in The United States was through universities and federal grants. It was a Sputnik thing. There's other ways to do it, but we set up that system. And if you look at all the startup companies around the country and all the pharmaceutical agents, they all you can trace their origins back to academic labs. Pfizer discovers far fewer drugs than they buy from some small startup that came out of some biochemistry department or some medical school or something. And so so so the academic research area is is the foundation level starting point. I have a number of friends who are worth a fortune because they patented something, and that's actually good because it would be neutered and not even usable by the free market if it didn't have the patent coverage, and so it made sense. So so it puts an incentive system in there. Right? Cornell gets some, the investigator gets some, the department gets some, and the world gets a new drug. It's not a crazy system. Now there's other ways to do it, but that's not how we do it. And we produce the best science, so it worked. Now the problem is that Trump threw a fastball past our chin and we deserved it. We absolutely deserved it. So he's saying, look, get rid of the the guys in sports, which Penn did with Leah Thomas, you know, get rid of the DEI, which a lot of schools are trying to and at the same time ducking, you know, naming them by different things. But but the fastball was needed. The problem is he he as you said at breakfast, it was the social stuff that Trump was going after, but you don't go after the social stuff with social stuff. You go after it by going after the money. Right. So Harvard's locked down for $9,000,000,000 of research funds, my understanding is it's still locked down. Cornell's locked down for over a billion. Speaker 0: Which nine Harvard was getting 9,000,000,000 from the feds for research of various times, and it's on hold. Speaker 1: And it's on hold. And the word cancel versus frozen, I I was trying to figure it out. Columbia, I thought it was a canceled got crushed. And then Columbia put out a memo that said canceled. Now I don't know if that's because it's been canceled, but my understanding is the money's not flowing. Now the problem is, as a trustee said to me, you know, if this goes into 2026, we're in a world of trouble. I said, if this goes into August, we're in a world of trouble. I've got colleagues with 15 person research groups that are all funded by these federal grants, and they do good science. They do good science. There's probably some crap in the humanities, but they suck about $10,000 of grant money out of the system to do that stupid thing. I don't know. I don't even know if it's stupid. And there's no now if if you're getting your PhD, there's no one who can give you a postdoc. That's the next step. That step's broken. And so the system right now is on it's flatlined. And and I I really wish they'd gotten rid of USAID, and you told me they did. They just moved it. Well, that's a problem. But but I think I think the academic research system was working. Speaker 0: I think part of the problem from a civilian perspective are the endowments. Speaker 1: Now let me explain the endowments. Speaker 0: So for let me just complete the thought by saying it's the no tax part that I think drives some of us to wanna sort of storm the campus with guns because that's everyone's getting mean, the private equity guys are taking all their income as interest, so they're paying half the rate. But for a normal person, you know, you're paying over half of everything you make to the government, and it's being spent on nonsense or given to Ukraine. And then there are these giant hedge funds called university endowments that aren't paying any taxes. And I think that can really drive people bonkers, including me. Speaker 1: Well, I understand. There are some subtleties of endowments. Again, it's not to say that you're not a 100% correct, but I at least want to say to your listeners so they understand what they're complaining about. First and foremost, there supposedly are rules where the universities are not supposed to be competing with the private sector, so and they get around those. But if Cornell builds housing, is making money off the housing in town, that kind of breaks the rule, Right. But they build dorms and, you know, things like that. So you're right about that. The endowments are a funny game. First and foremost, I looked this up last week. Approximately 50% of all endowments spin off, so it spins off at revenue and Harvard's has been collecting since 1656. 50% of the money spun off goes to financial aid, which means making college more affordable, admittedly not very affordable for a lot of people, but making it more affordable, so so so half of the money being spun off is going right back to education of the students. Another 20 is for academic programs, which means paying for things that that would have have to be paid for or we'd have to do without. And I would argue we got bloated. So there's things we should have done without. If you looked at the dining program now compared to what we they have now, it's really unbelievable. Speaker 0: I'm not against good food. I'm against DEI administrators and administrators in general. Like, college should be focused on No. Speaker 1: I I agree with that. That and and that's where we should have gotten the fastball pass our Speaker 0: Should any of these schools have more tenured professors than they do administrators? I don't think so. Speaker 1: The the administrative bloat is a combination of all the problems that that drive you nuts and the fact that the interactions between the university and the the feds and the states has gotten more complicated. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: So so for example, you need way more bean counters. Speaker 0: And grant writers and Speaker 1: Well, no. Grant writers are me. Okay. They're us. The the grants are being written by the faculty. And, again, the DEI Michigan's DEI payroll is was 93,000,000 last time I read about it. That's a lot of money. Right? But but but but just when you get a federal grant, there's so many things you have to do. It used to they ran it out of a shoebox. Here's your check. Spend it wisely. You know, that's what it's no longer like that. Now it reached the absurd point where you're supposed to make statements about how you're gonna save the whales and donate organs to Guatemalan orphans and things like that, and I think Trump's gonna successfully get a lot of that crap out of there. He would save Cornell a fortune if he could get rid of all of DI. Now I do think the original idea of affirmative action makes sense. It basically said, go find people who are being missed. Look into the dusty corners where you normally don't look and see if you find talent. Right? There's a famous chemist named Henry Gilman at I Speaker 0: thought the SAT was designed to do that. Speaker 1: No. The it turns out the SAT has problems now, and the reason it has problems is because when Kaplan got ahold of it, it and they for profit coach kids on how to do well, and then they made it such that the SAT could be taken three times and you get to use only the one you like, all of a sudden the cost of maximizing your score on the SAT became prohibitive. And so it's a legitimate argument that someone coming out of the hood cannot take the Kaplan course, take the SAT three test. So but you shouldn't get rid of it. You should just be aware of what it's telling you. Speaker 0: Would it be possible to design a corruption free screen for intelligence and, know, initiative? Speaker 1: Shut up, racist. No, but I mean No. So the idea Speaker 0: was that the SAT was supposed to democratize education. We're just going to locate Speaker 1: And discover kids who've got double eight hundreds who you wouldn't Speaker 0: have spotted. Exactly. Right. And actually, I have a child who got an 800, couldn't get into college. So so clearly, it's like the system has gotten so corrupt. So but but the idea in Kaplan, you said, corrupted it as well. Speaker 1: Well, it it that it it kinda corrupted the SAT. Speaker 0: Right. That's what I'm saying. So Now Speaker 1: the GRE, which is the next level, is nowhere near as corrupted it because by then, the students don't give a damn. They do, I'll take the GRE, and they so it's it's more legit. Speaker 0: But is there I mean, but the idea that of a color blind, class blind, pure, you know, meritocracy test is I mean, why give up Speaker 1: on that? Speaker 0: Here's what Speaker 1: I think we should do. I used I I was graduate director of graduate studies, which involved admission into our grad program for seven years record. The only guy who held the four administrative positions in the chemistry department, so that's pretty good for being the chemistry douchebag. And you learn about things. And I read undergraduate admissions on purpose for a number of years because and you read Regent, so I might read Manhattan, for example, and you learn about who's applying and stuff like that. And what I think you want to look for is a system where you see evidence that a kid overcame something. And it's not about color, although you could say non statistically it's about color. Right? But a kid from the Ozarks, you know, JD Vance, who I find his origin story a little suspicious, I must admit. But but but so we had a kid who applied and everything was sunshine and skittles, rainbows in his application. And one of his lighter writers said his mother died here. His father died here. He was raised by his neighbors, you know, and I'm going, and he didn't mention it? Speaker 0: I hope you let him in. Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yes. You give me in graduate admissions, I see some kid from Stanford with a I see some kid from Stanford with three point o. I didn't take him because a three point o is a kid who accepted a three point o. You show me I'll take a four point zero from St. Mary's College of the Divinity because that kid said, here's the they said, here's the highest you can get to. That kid got there, right? MIT kids with lousy GPAs are lousy grad students, even though they're smarter than hell, but they're cocky. Now, it turns out you show me a kid from Stanford with a three point zero who played football. I take the kid in a heartbeat. You show me a kid from Stanford who who who who is a three point o, who is in you know, who is, you know, brilliant violinist. I'll take that kid. My here's my son. My son applies to Cornell for reasons you know he was gonna get in. But his resume I had once underachiever as a kid, who's now phenomenal, and the one who is a superachiever. What's superachieving? And we didn't push him because it was a pain in the ass. We're driving all the time. All State Orchestra first violin, gold medalist in the eight state regional gymnastics championship, fifth in the nation equestrian, played lacrosse. Got a resume better than that. So here's what happened. My older son who could care less about school, Just nothing. His teacher said, sweet kid, no attention. At one point I said to a teacher, the only kids he's beaten are crack babies. And she kind of blew a snap bubble and then said, yeah. He's now phenomenally successful. He's a super dad. I'm so proud of the level of dadness that he is. He's the director of event management at the Council on Foreign Relations. After being the most underwhelming kid in high school, he grew up. He climbed Mount Stupid a little bit late. Unfortunately, was in a family that could help him get over it when the time came. The thing that we get credit for is not breaking them. It's not it's not forcing them into a mold that didn't fit. You know who he is? You know the book Ferdinand the Bull? Of course. Child's story? Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: That book wasn't for kids. That was for the parents. That was telling the parents your kid is Ferdinand maybe. My other one was Mike Mulligan's steam shovel. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Right? Faster the the more people watch, the faster he went. Ironically, the overachiever got to Cornell and got lost. The the underachiever got just grew nicely in college, and now the the younger one is now a professional after trying cubicle farming and all that crap that you get by being a business major at Cornell Hotel School. He's a professional violinist in Boston. Better outcome. Better outcome. Bank of Dad's important because violinists in Boston don't make a lot of money. But I'm happy to support it because it's his soul. You know why he's a professor? You want neurobiology? My wife was flat on her back when she was pregnant. She put headphones against her stomach and played classical music when he was in the womb. I know prenatal development is important. By the time he's three years old, his friends are singing B. I. N. G. O. And he's listening to orchestra pieces and he'd say, I like this part right here, and you'd hear the second violins come in there and he'd go, right there, I like that. And I'm going, holy shit, this kid's got an ear. He has an ear like you he developed an ear in So the don't do that to your womb. You'll have a musician in your family if you So do Speaker 0: I wanna ask you here since you mentioned the struggle, you know, the the triumph, but also the struggle to pay for it because the economy doesn't support young people very well Since you did call the financial collapse of two thousand eight, it sounds like. Speaker 1: Mhmm. In 02/2002. Speaker 0: In 02/2002. So you couldn't short you couldn't get rich shorting anything. I I shorted twice, Speaker 1: and it's shortings for fools and pros, and the Venn diagram of those two is almost that. Speaker 0: That's exactly right. They're both I know both. Yes. Speaker 1: Yeah. Where are we now? We're in a catastrophic situation. Catastrophe seems strong. Yeah. Well, I I think you can make arguments the economy has a lot of problems, and and and there's there's a paradoxical problem with the economy, and that is you can go up to any seven eleven and they can't hire. They there there's help wanted ads. So it looks like an economy burning burning hot. But if you look at the high end, there's layoffs going everywhere. So there's foreshadowing of of real trouble coming. Speaker 0: So college graduates, even Ivy League graduates, humanities graduates, not engineers or chemists, but, you know, the the business guy or whatever, they're having trouble getting jobs. The kind Speaker 1: that they're trained for, certainly. Speaker 0: Yeah. But there's just I mean, I know a bunch of them, and but you see it in the numbers. Educated 22 year olds are having trouble getting jobs, but seven eleven can hire. Right. So what what is that? Speaker 1: Well, so this is a normal sort of it's a distorted version of of, I think, a recession coming or or in. Now where it gets complicated is if you don't believe the inflation numbers, which I don't, and you've got Chapwood Index and Shadowstats that give inflation numbers that are probably on average six or 7% higher than the official numbers. The official numbers are corrupted, and I don't want to go into it because it's technical, but But the CPI is The CPI is crap. Speaker 0: Right. I agree with that. Speaker 1: Now here's the problem. If the economy's been growing two and a half percent and the inflation numbers are underestimated by four, means we've been in a recession the whole way. Speaker 0: Yeah. Moving backwards. Speaker 1: We're moving backward. And you say, that can't happen. The recessions last, you know, two quarters or whatever. And I go, no, the British Empire was in a recession for a century. Right? They just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. And so so, no, you can be in you can you can be in a slow decline. So so but that's not what we're that's not the catastrophe. Speaker 0: Recession means decline. Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually, I I think it's a stupid word because I agree. It's like you you play golf? No. Well, if you play golf, you you go down into the sand trap. According to the definition of a recession, once you start climbing out, you're out. You ask a golfer if he's out of the sand trap because he's on the upslope of the trap. He's not. No. So the fact that your economy is not growing again, if it's coming out of a hole, as far as I'm concerned, you're not out until you've gotten past that previous period. So you're at par. Yeah. So you're at par. Right. Now, that's not the catastrophe because they happen all the time, and we've been able to either cover them or fake them or prevent them through very bad monetary policy. Speaker 0: Monetary policy. Speaker 1: Right. And what's bad? Pumping the stock market is just stupid. But but, you know, private equity buys private equity buys has bought up 80% of the hospitals, the health care, and what they do is they go in and they they they buy some organization, they strip it of its assets, they load it with debt, they pay themselves huge fees and bonuses, and then they sell the shell of a company, which is now effectively worthless, into the marketplace, like to pension funds, who are not smart enough to recognize that they just bought a piece of crap, and according to Gretchen Morgansson, a forty seven percent bankruptcy rate. Speaker 0: Now Post sale. Speaker 1: Post sale. Now, as long as it's profitable to buy viable companies, destroy them, sell the shell and make money, monitor money's too loose. Precious capital, if capital is is of real value, it's a moat. So good businessman can get capital, bad businessman can't. The fact that BlackRock could buy single family dwellings, which is a terrible business, you really can't make money unless you can unless there's a housing boom and you leverage up to hell. The fact that they could get it for at an interest rate of point 15% is a highly flawed system, and that's where the inventory went after o seven to o nine. It got bought up by these guys who could lever up and then charge rents to people. So they basically scoop scoop up the housing market. Speaker 0: Now With with free with free money. Speaker 1: With free money. Kind of free money. Unlike, you know, credit cards, which are 25%. Speaker 0: Right? And that's just free. I mean, if once you factor in inflation Speaker 1: It's it's a gift. Yeah. It's it's it's it's it's profitable money. Speaker 0: Literally, just taking the loan is profitable. Yes. You don't have to do anything with it. Yes. Yes. Right. Yeah. Speaker 1: So so here here's what happened. Somehow the market has ceased to respond, and the reason the market's important is because is because of the wealth effect, and that is that if you own equities, you own a house and they're soaring in price, your spending habits change. You you I'm having a great year, for example, so when the Bank of Dad has to provide some liquidity to the children, I feel okay about it, right? The problem is is that it's a false wealth. It's not real wealth. It's a false wealth. So what happened? Well, I'm getting tired of seeing these. I see four year plots of the equity market and they make various comparisons. I go, don't go back four years. Don't go back forty years. Go back one hundred and twenty years. So I follow about 25 metrics of valuation. Valuation is inherently a price of the market relative to something it ought to track, whether it's the earnings, the revenues, the book value, I think called Tobin's Q, the GDP, which is a fictional number as I've heard you recently say, but I follow about 25 of them. So you can get a track where the markets have gotten expensive relative to the thing it ought to track. Now, around 1981, the markets were at the cheapest valuation arguably in history. Inflation was scaring everyone, which is why they were cheap. It turns out that the boomers were just hitting the workforce, so demographics was a huge tailwind starting around then, and most economists agree demographics is huge. Now, I'm disingenuous in that I quote economists selectively. In the next sentence, I'll probably say something horrible about them, and so I'm obviously cherry picking my data, but economists like demographics. So the boomers hit the workplace, so it was almost guaranteed. I think Reagan was not important. I think think he did some very important things, but I think whoever got to be president was going to be at the beginning of a boom. It turns out that China was coming out of the dark ages. They started selling labor at slave wages. They were so desperate for capital when they sent their leader, don't make me pronounce his name, to the United Nations when he first started opening up. Speaker 0: Was it Deng Xiaoping? Speaker 1: Yes. And they had to scrounge to get the money to send him. I mean, they really didn't have any foreign capital. And so I remember when China said we're gonna let our workers keep some of their profits. It's like, woah. Russia had the Soviet Union hadn't collapsed, but they were in trouble, so they were obviously cranking a resource base as hard as they could, and we had our guys in there helping them and stuff like that. And interest rates were at all time highs. And if you read a 1999 article by Buffett, who I think is a hoser, I think he's much more of a stock jobber, much more of a conniver than he is. He loves to be the the mafia don walking around in a bathrobe saying I'm harmless. He is not harmless. When when when when we're in a bottom, he breaks all sorts of laws. They do all sorts of insider crap to bail the system out, but he pretends to just like Dairy Queen and Coca Cola or whatever. He wrote an article in '99 that said, you want to understand secular, big, long, bull versus bear markets. It's all interest rates. He said, it's not GDP. He said from '67 to '81, everything sucked. It treaded water, not accounting for inflation, and the markets dropped 75 accounting for inflation. So it was a horrible period. He said the GDP grew faster during that period than from '81 to '99. But interest rates from '67 to '81 went up From 81 to 99, they went down. So we started in '81 with interest rates in the high teens and over the next forty years they dropped to zero. That is absolutely the story. So when interest rates are dropping, risk assets go up. Yep. Because they're competing against and as they So get bottom line is that we just enjoy forty year recency bias. Speaker 0: Can you just explain that principle right there? You said as interest rates drop, risk assets go up. Speaker 1: Or are you gonna buy shares of a stock that, by the way, has treated you like crap over the previous fourteen years or a bond that pays you 17%. Right. Right. So the bonds become less, the fixed income become less, less attractive steadily for forty years. Now take the Case Shiller PE, which is which is just one of the metrics, but I happen to like it. It's a kind of an averaged earnings price earnings ratio. It also doesn't allow you to cheat because it doesn't use the immediate and forward PEs are stupid, but K Shiller averages, so I like it. If you take the K Shiller from eighteen eighty to nineteen ninety, it just channels. It's a valuation metric and it just goes up and down and up and down, and that's what it should do. Responds to things, but it stays in a channel. It's flat. Valuation metrics shouldn't trend. They should trend for a while, but then they should regress to the mean unless you can someone can give me an argument why they should trend, and I don't think there is one, and I've tried to find one. And then in 1990, they just kind of started to take off And the K PE averaged around 13% for a hundred and ten years. Then around 1990, oddly 1994, in every metric is when things left. I think it was because of a bond problem or something. I haven't been able to quite figure out why. But the valuations went up. Now here's the problem with valuations going up and now they're astronomical. So the KCLP averaged 13, which meant it was priced to return about 8% a year. Right? If you think of it as a gas station and you're paying, you know, 13 to one earnings, you're getting about 8%, and and it keeps pumping gas every year, you get about 13%. It is now 38. It's way above where it should be. It's a factor of 200%. Now, if you assume it's never going to regress to the mean. Now you're accepting, crudely speaking, a two and a half percent return, not an eight. Now, if you're okay with two and a half percent, that's fine. But by the way, most pensioners, most boomers are not planning on two and a half You're not right. Now, if it regresses to the mean, it's a 70% correction, assuming if it's fast, assuming nothing else changes, no damage to the economy. You know, all the bad things that happen when you lose 70% off the equity market, which is a questionable assumption. Another way to think about it, which I think is much clearer, is if you say, look, we'll just grow our way. I think it go up or down or up and down. You don't worry about the path. You say, if we grow 2.5% a year, which I just questioned as being valid, but let's assume it's valid, if we grow 2.5% a year to get back to historical average of 13, we'll take forty five years. Now here's the thing, made no assumptions about good news, bad news. I assumed it's coming like the twentieth century. Two and a half percent a year, it'll be forty five years from now. I don't care what path you follow. If we are at the average Case Shiller PE and the economy grew two and a half percent a year, the equity markets will have returned capital gains zero. And it doesn't matter if we crash and spike, it doesn't matter, you know, if we get to, you know, Dow 40,000, 50,000, 60,000. Forty five years from now, if we're at the mean, we will have earned nothing. Now you say, well, that would never happen. You go, well, if you own the o six, the $19.00 six high, you were even after something like forty years. I don't ask from you Speaker 0: You're own even after forty years. Speaker 1: If you buy if you own the top. Yep. People always say, well, how long did it take to get back to the top? That's a favorite question. You go, oh, you know, it took twenty two years. Oh, it took fifteen years. Oh, it took I like to ask a question. No. No. No. Not how long it took to get from the top back to even. How long did it take to go from that top to the last time that that price was attained adjusted for inflation? And those can go anywhere from forty to seventy five years. All you have to do is look at inflation adjusted S and P and draw a line from a top across the s s and P, and you will find that most of them break even in the mid eighties no matter what year they started. So you're just answering the question, what Speaker 0: the hell is going on with land prices and asset prices? Everything. Everything's mispriced. But is it mispriced? I mean, if I've got excess money, you know, and I need to store it somewhere and I'm listening to you, I'm like, oh, I think I'm gonna buy something a little less volatile, a little more real. Speaker 1: Like real estate. Speaker 0: Exactly. Okay. Speaker 1: The first time home and I know this drives you bananas. The first time homebuyers not too many decades ago were on average about 30 years old. Yep. I just read. What's the fact? I don't know. 56 now. First time homebuyers, 56. Speaker 0: That's been a massive consequence. Speaker 1: Do want to buy into that market that somehow seems like it has to regress because you can't have people going fifty six years without owning a house, right? You said you personally, I think it was in Turning Point USA, you went absolutely nonstop about how you can worry about Ukraine, but we've got guys we've got young adults who can't raise families in houses. Speaker 0: Yeah. And and it it creates a very scary political environment where people don't own anything and therefore have nothing to lose and no future. Speaker 1: Right. Well, here's an interesting ADHD moment. Monogamy versus polygamy. And this will sound random, but it'll get you Speaker 0: to the same No, it's a core question actually. These are the building blocks of the West. Speaker 1: Turns out polygamy monogamy is viewed as favoring women. That turns out to be backwards, and it's a simple math. Imagine there's a 100 people ranked one to a 100. Number one hundred's Mr. Big Cheese, and on the women's side, hottest chicken on the planet. Right? Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 1: Monogamy says number one would marry number one, number two would marry number two in the perfect system. So think of it as just a very simple model, and that what you can't do is if you're at the bottom of the chain, marry up. Right. If you do, then someone else gets pushed down. Of course. Right? So it would be of the interest of the girl working seven Eleven to be Jeff Bezos' second wife. Speaker 0: Yeah. I think that happened. Speaker 1: So so so in fact, you can upgrade your game and and, you know, Elon, right? I mean, the guy's a reproduction machine. Right? The women are signing off on it because it's better to be with a guy worth that kind of money than broke. Right? And and so it turns out that you say, well, then why did cultural evolution lead to monogamy? And the answer is is because it minimizes violence. Right. It's for the men. Of course. So they don't fight. Speaker 0: Well, yeah, because in a polygamous system, all the high status males scoop up all the women. Speaker 1: Well, now in a situation where men can't provide the home for their families and stuff like that, and so we're gonna fight. Speaker 0: I've noticed. Speaker 1: I've noticed that too. And so now here's the deal. Let's say we're I'm right and we're to market top. And if if I'm not, I think we're close. One of the things that my peers who were paranoid as hell about this, some very smart guys, they tend not to put numbers on it. I'm one of the few who puts numbers on it. There's there's a couple others who do, but they just say all the valuations are ridiculous. But no one wants to be on record that we're gonna be to say it's catastrophically overpriced, whatever correction you get, you say, see, I told you. I'm saying 200% overpriced. Now, how do you get out of overvaluation? You can't inflate your way out. No. Because the numerator, the price, and the denominator, the thing is supposed to track, both are influenced by inflation. So as your price goes up because of inflation, your revenues go up because of inflation. You're still 200% over historical average valuation. And so you can't inflate away an overvaluation. Speaker 0: So what I mean, is this just a gravity scenario where, ultimately, it has to revert to its actual value? Speaker 1: Model I have, and they never work because it's always one of these, something will be creatively different, but the best model is a Nikkei. Japan hit a high in '89. It briefly got back to that thirty five years later. It's actually below that, I think, if I remember correctly. Inflation adjusts for that guaranteed. Speaker 0: Yes. Yes. That's right. Speaker 1: I asked someone during a podcast if you can do this spreadsheet for me, I'd love to get it. Someone did it. I said, what if you started buying the Nikkei at the top? Not own the knee. If you own the Nikkei at the top, you're dead meat, you die broke. But what if you what if you started buying 22 year old graduate of Tokyo University, you started putting yen into the Nikkei in 1989. How long if you average then did it take you to break even? It's around two decades. Starting with zero in the Nikkei. So I was on a podcast with George Nobel, Twitter Space actually. He was Peter Lynch's right hand man, and he said, well, you could I said, I think the markets will be uninvestable. He said, oh, you can do this and this. And I said the Nikkei, and he said, oh, you could short. I said, no, you couldn't. You can't short a market that takes twenty years Speaker 0: to find a bottom. So Short long time Speaker 1: a market like in o seven to o '9. Right. Speaker 0: Right. A volatile market. Yes. You can't a market in inexorable decline can't be short. Speaker 1: Sore for in a top, aren't tops supposed to be euphoric? Remember the.com? Speaker 0: Oh, yes. The world Speaker 1: was changing, the nifty 50, you know? Webvan and e toys, pets.com. Know, sustainable prosperity. We are supposed to be true believers that the world is wonderful. Do you sense much of the population thinks the world's wonderful? Speaker 0: I don't I don't sense that, and all around us are signs of Speaker 1: What's it gonna look like when 70% gets clipped off this market? Speaker 0: So I'm immediately going to prepper survival mode. What where are the enduring safe stores of value? Speaker 1: I don't you can't answer that. I bought gold at around $2.70 an ounce. 270? 270. Speaker 0: Hope you bought a lot of it. Speaker 1: I did. But it's worth a lot more now. Do you think? Speaker 0: Yeah. What spot price today? Do you know? Speaker 1: Ballpark, 3,300. Yeah. I bought silver. I bought gold below $2.70. I'll tell you why, because my first purchases were actually in a closed end mutual fund that was trading 27% below net asset valuation because people say, oh, it's easy to buy back then. Was cheap. I said it was cheap because five of us wanted it. Speaker 0: Right. Well, of course. Right. Speaker 1: And by the way, the top, some Tuesday afternoon at 02:03 p. M, we will hit a top that will be decades later to be returned to potentially. The top is the point maximum optimism, which paradoxically is the moment in time where your justification for optimism is zero. The bottom is the same thing in reverse. Speaker 0: Of course. Speaker 1: So so we're not happy now. Speaker 0: So you're saying the herd's not always right, is Osha saying? Speaker 1: I'm told. I'm told. We're So Speaker 0: let's hold on. Let's just go back to gold for a second. So you buy Speaker 1: I bought gold net at around 2 ten. Speaker 0: Come on. Speaker 1: Well, I bought it 28% below NAV when it was Physical delivery? No. That was not physical. But then I started buying here's what I did. I bought gold from the local coin dealer. Yeah. And I'd say, when you get ounces, I'll pay cash. And he sold it to me at Spot. And he'd call and say, got three ounces in, I'd go to the bank, I'd get out $900, right, and I'd buy the gold from him. Cash. I buy silver from them. Cash. I could buy silver eagles at spot. You go on eBay. Holy shit. Those things are like $10 above spot. And and it was for for ballpark $4 an ounce. And and then I remember it was at $4.57, and I was buying from him. And he said, don't you think there's a top? He knew I was gonna buy it. He said, don't you think there's a top? Speaker 0: $457 an ounce for gold. Speaker 1: There's like, oh, three or something. I know. And and I said, how many people are buying gold from you? He said, oh, about four. And I said, and the other three are my friends, aren't they? He said, yeah. And I said, does that sound like a mania to you? And and so here's the thing I've been on. I'm a big fan of energy, but I think when the selling starts, everything sells. You'll be selling your children. You'll be sell right? Everything sells. So I think the idea of trying to get into any risk assets so dangerous, I'll take 4% on a treasury, two year treasury. Some people think, you know, I'll lock it up for two years and then, oh, that'll save me. I won't dip buy after six months. Speaker 0: So at what price would you buy gold again? Speaker 1: Well, I've got so much I don't need anymore. If I didn't own any, I'd buy it now, but the Bitcoin guys would say buy Bitcoin at a 117,000. I turned it down at 10. I wish I'd bought it. I would have sold it at 50 and spent the proceeds on therapy. Why Why on therapy? Because I would have sold it at 50. Speaker 0: Right. Good point. And I Speaker 1: know I would have. I know I would have. Speaker 0: You don't you don't believe in crypto? Speaker 1: I don't think so. The crypto can be I am their number one target. They say you are a hodler, and I won't buy it. The reason is because I believe that several layers. One is that I believe that the authorities are not gonna let crypto take over. Speaker 0: Of course not. Speaker 1: And and by the way, that means that Speaker 0: They're gonna lose total control over society? Speaker 1: That's Yeah. Speaker 0: I don't think You Speaker 1: think the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds are gonna hand it over to Max Keiser and Michael Saylor? I don't think so. Speaker 0: But you don't you don't think That's Speaker 1: what I think it actually is. You know, the first paper on crypto was written by three NSA guys. Yeah. That means I think if I were smart and I were gonna bring in central bank digital currency, which is an authoritarian nightmare, I would do it the way they did. I'd release the crypto. I'd have guys pumping it. I'd have guys supporting it. I'd let them debug the networks and the kinks and acclimate people to it, and then I'd say, okay. It was fun. We'll take it from here. Speaker 0: And in the process, of course, you acclimate people to this new Digital world. New kind of commerce. Yeah. Exactly. No. That's and I get rid of the ATMs, and I would make airport convenience stores credit card only, and I would do all that stuff to to change people's habits. Liberty. Of course. Oh, I couldn't agree more. So you just have too much gold. You just don't want any more gold. Speaker 1: I I just no. No. That it's I I'm What Speaker 0: about real estate right now? Speaker 1: I'm long I own a nice house. I'm long real estate by owning that house. I wouldn't buy real estate as a speculation. If I if you put a gun to my head, I'd say maybe farmland, but that's been getting scooped up. That's a pretty trite narrative now. Speaker 0: Big time. Well, I follow that because I'm interested. And, I mean, it's turning for just crazy numbers an acre and Speaker 1: that Well, that's a problem. Speaker 0: That's what I'm saying. Speaker 1: So So here's what I here's what I watched for years and then jumped in, and it's a problem. The modern market, I bought gold steadily from '99 through about o three, and then I bought some more when it was around 1,200 in the teens. I said, okay, it's kind of flattened out. I'm gonna get some more. So around bought it around $1,200 in maybe 2016 or something. And but the modern markets don't wait. If you get a good idea and social media stuff, it will close-up that gap so fast you won't know what hit you. So I'm bullish on energy long term, energy equities and stuff, but I think they're gonna sell before they become a good buy. And so I just can't commit a lot of money to the energy, though I think I I have some mutual funds on uranium based investments, which I think we gotta go to, and now it looks like we are. I actually think AI is not demanding nuclear energy. I think AI is being used as a Trojan horse to bring in nuclear energy, which I support. I think they're using the buzz of AI to say, let's get the nukes going. People say, yeah, nukes, we need it for the AI. We've needed nukes, it was the obvious next thing to go to. Platinum. For years I watched Platinum. Owned so little Platinum that if it went to zero, I wouldn't even notice. I mean, trivial, trivial amount. And I've been watching, it's been flat, I mean flat as in like a flat line not moving away from $900 an ounce by a few dollars flat for ten years after dropping. And I go, what's the platinum story? Well, platinum story is I don't trade. I don't trade at all. If I buy it, I'm buying it saying, I'm hanging on to it. If it goes down, I don't trade. The platinum story is I don't believe in the EV. I don't think it's a good technology. I think it'll be here, but I don't think it's gonna take over the world. I think the hybrids are gonna take over the world. Speaker 0: Well, they make sense. They make inherent sense. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're more efficient. They use more platinum than internal combustion engines because their catalytic converters burn colder, so they need more platinum. Now here's where it gets real interesting. The platinum miners are in Russia and South Africa. Russia will therefore have control. South Africa could become a failed state so fast, you know, it itches, right? More to the point, and again, trying to get real facts on this stuff, but the above ground platinum supply, the available platinum supply is something like $3,000,000,000, which is something a medium sized hedge fund could buy at current prices. It's been in deficit production for at least four years. Speaker 0: What does deficit production mean? Speaker 1: Means that we're consuming more per year than the Speaker 0: miners Oh gosh. Are Okay. Speaker 1: Based on the rate of deficit production that the above ground supply will be gone within about a year. Speaker 0: So there's no more platinum? Speaker 1: Arguably. We could go to potentially palladium, but, you know, whatever. Platinum has not gone through a meme phase, so might a little bit of trader me says that meme phase could get spectacular. Platinum could Speaker 0: go to 20,000. Because it has industrial uses. Right. You know, it seems kind of natural. Speaker 1: So I decided I was so I reached out to some technical analyst who draw the squiggles on the on the curves, and I make I I'm sarcastically occasionally commenting about technical analysis, but I I can't do it or don't believe in or whatever. But I asked a few I said, look at this plot. Where would you start getting excited? Because it's been flying for ten years, I don't need to put money in and have it sit there for ten years more. And a few gave me opinions about what price, so I kind of formulated an opinion where I had to start and then hit it. Now instead of buying it, you know, slowly, I said in the modern era you got to move quick. So I started hitting the buy button and I'm still not. I face a boomer dilemma. The boomer dilemma is the good news is my net worth is good enough if I don't screw up, I'm fine. I mean, I could retire today, not earn another penny. Fine. I wanna leave money to my kids, I will be able to. The paradox is that to commit to an asset requires committing a percentage that's not stupid. If you commit point 01% of your assets to it, it's not going to make a difference no matter what happens. Speaker 0: So Speaker 1: if you say, well, 5%. When I look at the quantity of money I have to spend to commit 5%, it seems huge, but it's only 5%. And so as a consequence, I go, look, if it went if it went to zero tomorrow, I'd have a bad day. I'd lose 5% of my assets, but it would be too much money. So so I'm fighting this bias about how many dollars it takes to get to a Speaker 0: I get it. So let me ask you just a a wrap up question, which is given your description of where we are, and you haven't even mentioned what could be a debt crisis when people stop buying our debt or or slow down. But there are all kinds of things to worry about that are seem imminent. How does the average person respond? Speaker 1: They don't have any money anyways. Speaker 0: Yeah. Fair. Speaker 1: I mean, the the average person has no money. Speaker 0: So yeah. Speaker 1: So how does the five percentile boomer respond? Yeah. Well, years ago, I did an analysis on the five percentile boomer. This is how bad it is. This is years ago, actually. And it it actually got vetted by Steven Roach, who's executive director of Morgan Stanley. He looked at my numbers and actually you've overestimated something, you should be more conservative. I invented five percentile guy. At that time he was worth $1,100,000. He was earning $156,000 a year. You also know he's not 22 years old, he's probably a boomer because it takes a while to get to five percentile. At a reasonable rate of withdrawal from a retirement account, mister five percentile guy who is has to be living the American dream could take about $48,000 out. Annually? Annually. Without risking going broke. And you know what? They don't know how to live on 48,000. No. And they might have other assets. This is a complicated analysis, but that's a scary number. Speaker 0: For a modern life, that's Speaker 1: a Yeah. Well, the but the thing is if he knew how to live on $3,048,000 dollars, he'd have more than 1,100,000.0. Speaker 0: Good point. Speaker 1: And so so we've got a whole generation that has got expectations that are just off the chart distorted, and it's not because of a five year or ten year recency bias. It's a forty year recency bias. It's 1981. Let me finish that story. From 1981, the valuation, which should not trend, compounded annually 4% a year. What happens over the next forty years when it compounds negative 4% a year to get to cheap again? Now you say, well, that'll never happen. I go, of course, it'll happen. Show me an asset class that got overpriced. It didn't become cheap again. Speaker 0: Well, if you believe in markets, that's just by definition going to happen. Speaker 1: Right. And if there's a way to fake it it doesn't happen, then it means you're just diluting as to what actually happened. You're not getting a reality. Speaker 0: Right. Right. Speaker 1: And so the bottom line is is that the boomer demographic almost by definition was gonna generate a bubble, a big mother bubble because of the demographics. Now I was telling you about how I was reading my old write ups from like thirteen, fourteen, 15. I make a compelling case that that the markets were crazy. How do I do it? I use numbers, I use stats, and I use quotes from the most famous money guys in the world. You know, Paul Tudor Jones, Stan Druckenmiller, you name it. These are not lightweights saying these markets are insanely overvalued in 2015. What has happened since then? Straight up. Oh, Example. For Apple, tenfold gain on a growth in revenues of 50%. '95 per 95% correction brings that back down. Microsoft, 150% gain in revenues, tenfold gain. Doesn't make mathematical sense. Let's go to Nvidia. There is the winner. $4,000,000,000,000 of market cap being run by a guy who has a very sketchy past. 25 fold gain in revenues. You go, now we're talking 250 fold gain in market cap. Speaker 0: Yeah. So that's the problem right Speaker 1: there. 90% correction takes you back to 02/2015. Do you remember 2015 being depressed? I don't. Stan Druckenmiller didn't think so. Howard Marks didn't think so. All these guys who are considered legends thought the markets were insanely overpriced in '15. And it's been nothing but up. And that will end. I don't know when. Speaker 0: And you think that all asset classes are tied to that? Speaker 1: I can't say all because that means a 100%, but I I if I found something that I thought was dirt cheap, I'm glad I own the gold from as cheap as I did because because when it goes down, I go, I'm still up on 15 fold or something. Right? So it makes it easier. Buying gold now from scratch would be harder. It would be that, you know, the number of dollars to get the percent position, that sort of thing. And I think the debt problem is global. If you actually look at the metrics for the growth in the global debt relative to global GDP, the entire world has become priced much more than ten years ago relative to what the world produces. So what's a global debt crisis? That's a question. Well, there's you got lenders and borrowers. It's a zero sum game. No, it's not. I know. A global debt crisis is when the entire world thinks they're gonna get shit that the world can't produce. And the way you think of how to create one artificial Gedanken experiment. Let's say the leaders of the world got together and said, look, let's just solve this problem. Let's guarantee health care to all our citizens. Let's guarantee their pension, all our citizens. Problem solved. They go, well, but you didn't in any way, shape or form increase the ability to produce wealth. So you now have obligations for which you haven't a clue how you're gonna pay for them. Who's gonna do it? Are you gonna have the Chinese delivering Chinese food to our door still? I don't think so. We're gonna be delivering food to the Chinese. So so everything will regress. Forty year recency bias says it won't. Speaker 0: It will. On that dark note, I'm just picturing myself showing up at a doorstep in Beijing with some kung pao chicken. Speaker 1: Hoping for Speaker 0: a tip. Hoping for Speaker 1: a tip. I can see you now. You turn the scan around and shoved the 25% tip in the guy's face. Speaker 0: Professor, thank you. I hope this doesn't get you fired. I hope you'll come back. Speaker 1: I anytime. You call, I'm in the car. Thank you.
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