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reSee.it AI Summary
I shared an interview with Rick Wiles from TruNews featuring Gordon Thomas, discussing the claim that Mossad killed Robert Maxwell and buried him in Jerusalem. This interview took place in 2003, before Epstein was widely known. I recommend following @realRickWiles and @TruNews for more insights.
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If you’d like to hear from the Author: Rick Wiles from TruNews interviews Gordon Thomas. You’ll learn that Mossad killed Robert Maxwell on his yacht, then buried him in Jerusalem. https://t.co/artVkyWlc6
Video Transcript AI Summary
Robert Maxwell was a media mogul and a spy for Israel. He stole hundreds of millions of dollars and used Senator John Tower as his "gofer." Maxwell built a vast empire, financed by major banks, and became the "king of Bulgaria," indulging in business and sexual fantasies. He helped move Jews from Russia to Israel, providing the KGB with lavish gifts and computers to steal Western technology.
Maxwell marketed PROMISE software, stolen by Rafi Eitan of Mossad, around the world, which allowed Mossad to monitor various governments. The software was sold to Zimbabwe, Russia, and Egypt. A trapdoor was built into the software, enabling Mossad to track users' activities. Even Bin Laden acquired a version of PROMISE. John Tower enabled Maxwell to sell PROMISE to Los Alamos, giving Israel access to the nuclear laboratory.
When Maxwell faced financial ruin, he demanded $400 million from Mossad and threatened to expose their activities. Mossad decided to assassinate him. A Kidon unit injected him with a lethal nerve agent and drowned him at sea. Betty and Isabel Maxwell provided autopsy reports that helped reveal the truth.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: We're going to take a trip in the wayback machine today. We're going back to 01/22/2003. Rick had the opportunity to begin one of his first interviews with author Gordon Thomas. Now, Gordon Thomas is well known in the investigative field for touching on topics that really are hot potatoes for a lot of other journalists and writers in the world. He passed away here recently.
But this particular interview that Rick did in 2003 is quite an eye opener. In this interview, Rick is talking to Gordon Thomas about his latest book at that time, entitled Israel's super spy. Now, Robert Maxwell was a media magnet along the lines of like a Rupert Murdoch, fat And it came to pass that as the story developed regarding his mysterious death, actually, he was murdered, that many other things began to unravel about his life. And the idea that Robert Maxwell was actually a spy for Israel began to develop after his life. In this interview from 01/22/2003, Rick talks to Gordon Thomas and a lot more than Robert Maxwell's revealed here.
You're going to hear him talk about the Mossad, the Mafia, Senator John Tower, Promise Software, haven't talked about that surveillance software in a long time, and the real reason to bring Jews from Russia to Israel. This show should be required listening for long term fans of true news. Here's Rick Wiles talking to Gordon Thomas about his latest book at that time, Robert Maxwell, Israel's super spy.
Speaker 1: Gordon Thomas, the award winning internationally acclaimed author of numerous books on intelligence agencies and espionage, along with his coworker, Martin Dillon, have just completed the publication of an absolutely incredible book on the life and death of Robert Maxwell. The book is entitled Robert Maxwell, Israel's super spy, the life and murder of a media mogul. This book is absolutely it is riveting. It is you can't put this book down because Gordon Thomas and Martin Dillon bring to to the pages of this book intricate details about the involvement of Robert Maxwell with the Israeli Mossad spy agency, and they show how it was the Mossad who put an end to Robert Maxwell's career. On the telephone with me right now from his home in Ireland is the author, the coauthor of this book, Gordon Thomas.
Gordon, welcome back to American Freedom News.
Speaker 2: Wonderful be back again.
Speaker 1: Oh, Gordon, I'll tell you. I I I can't put this book down. This
Speaker 2: is a
Speaker 1: fascinating book. You've you've you've you've outdone yourself. What is this? Your fortieth book? Forty
Speaker 2: fifth? It's the fortieth. Yep. Yep. She's running away in England.
We've gone through six reprints in four weeks, and it's done about 27,000 copies in The States, which is pretty good in this climate. But I think the attraction is, you know, is not, Chris, is is not that it's just a story of Maxwell, but it is I I it's one of the greatest thrillers I've ever encountered in my whole life because many years ago, I briefly worked for Maxwell as one of his reporters on his vast in his vast newspaper empire, and he was an absolute monster. And I remember and this is a man who made off with hundreds of millions, by the way. I remember him coming down the editorial floor of the Daily Mirror and raging. He was holding up an expense sheet of some hapless reporter who he discovered had cheated him by all of 50¢, and this reporter was fired on the spot.
Now what made it particularly poignant, of course, it was the day before Christmas Eve. You imagine he says, a happy Christmas to you, and threw him out. He was he was extraordinary Maxwell. He was bizarre.
Speaker 1: Over 50¢, he fired a reporter. Over 50¢, and yet Maxwell himself stole hundreds of millions of dollars
Speaker 2: That's right. From his business. Time he was in the middle of stealing a referral center. But none
Speaker 1: of
Speaker 2: us suspected at the time, of course, that Maxwell was this super spy for Israel. And I think that's what's gonna shake people because one of the things that was so shattering when we were doing it, when Martin and I were doing our research, was to discover how he had taken senator John Tower, who was, as you know, a powerful figure within the Republican party, and had used him as his gofer.
Speaker 1: I I was stunned when I read this in in the book. Martin or or Gordon, before we before we get into these, really juicy details about Robert Maxwell, for the benefit of our listeners who may not know, very much about Robert Maxwell, give them a brief history of Robert Maxwell's financial empire and the influence that this man had, back in the seventies and eighties and the early nineties just before he died.
Speaker 2: Well, Maxwell was without a doubt Citizen Kane writ large. He envisaged that he would one day be greater than Rupert Murdoch. He saw himself as the natural successor to Hearst, William Renner of Hearst. He imagined he would conquer the world. And what he did, he began in the most modest way possible, barefoot in a little village in the depths of of the Balkans.
He rose having created for himself already a legend, all fantasy about his wartime experiences until he really became a war hero. It's sort of art imitating fact in fact. And he became quite a good war hero in World War two. And then because he spoke all these many languages, he spoke eight languages fluently. He saw an opening for himself after World War II, which was in publishing.
And very shrewdly, he acquired all the rights to a large number of German periodicals, which were scientific periodicals, were really very advanced. And he republished these in England and in America and elsewhere. And he founded his fortune. It became Pergamon Press, which became perhaps one of the biggest scientific publishing houses in Britain. He then rose and he became a member of the British Parliament.
He became an incredible salesman, and that became very important later. He could sell anybody anything and of course, finally he got his hands on the Daily Mirror, which was the flagship of the tabloid world in Britain. And he turned it into what became laughingly known as the Daily Maxwell because pretty well every day he had his photograph on a front page with an editorial about this, that, and the other. But nobody realized at this time this is only part of his extraordinary existence because he was without a doubt very successful as a publisher and he published a stream of bestsellers. He published a massive amount of scientific journals.
He also saw the mirror circulation climb and climb and climb. And he would have thought he'd been satisfied with that, but no. He had made in his heart of hearts a commitment that Israel for him was to be a spiritual home even though he had a British passport, even though he'd served in the British Army and so on. And so when he was approached by Mossad because you see, at that time, we had the Cold War at full blast and Maxwell was the only person who could walk into the Kremlin, could walk into anywhere in Eastern Europe through his languages, through his connections, through his publishing, everything else. And he became a natural target for Mossad to wish to recruit.
And what they did, they offered him. Would he work for them? Not as a smile like we think of James Bond, but as just about the best door opener they would ever hope to have. And he said, no problem. He would do that.
And so Robert Maxwell set about opening every possible door and learning every secret he could by doing so. He could walk into Downing Street, the home of Britain's prime minister. He became a close friend of Ronald Reagan. He could walk into the Oval Office, and where others would have to wait their turn to go and see the president, he could just browse in. Absolutely unbelievable.
And he knew everybody. And if you look at his library of photographs, and it is a library, literally, there's walls of photographs of him with every famous figure in the world. So this man knew everybody.
Speaker 1: With with this man's multibillion dollar empire, was was part of his empire financed by the Rothschild banking empire?
Speaker 2: No. He wanted them to yes. It was. Yes. Short answer.
Yes. He had oh, pretty well every major bank in the world, particularly in America and Britain, Rothschilds included, of course. They all poured money into him. They were they were throwing money at him, and he was using it to buy extraordinary things. For instance, he spent 2,000,000,000 to buy the Macmillan Publishing Corporation in New York.
He spent 700,000,000 to buy the airline guide and so on. He was but sometimes his buying went wrong and he lost. And almost like the Wall Street crash in the old in 1929, he didn't always calculate rightly because he wouldn't listen to anybody. He would do it on impulse. He was a very impulsive man.
So there he was buying and selling, and by the time he was fully fledged as an operative for the Israeli, He had something like 400 companies under his absolute control. He was always the principal shareholder. He bought the Daily News in New York. He bought this famous yacht which became central to our story, the Lady Ghislain, which he named after his daughter. He he was he bought but what was so important is what he bought and set up in the Balkans, Central Europe.
He became known as the king of Bulgaria because there he was he behaved like a king. And it was there that he indulged all his fantasies, both his business fantasies and his sexual fantasies. And it was there that he met people like Fidel Castro. It was there that he met the head of the KGB at the time called Krystchev, Vladimir Krystchev. And it was there that he became finally the bag man for organized crime families in the Balkans in Eastern Europe who also had connections to the Gotti family in New York and so on.
And so Maxwell became the bag man, the money man for these crime families. And he moved money around the world, billions at the toss of a hat, just like that.
Speaker 1: Gordon, he also played extremely important roles in the release of Jews from Russia and and
Speaker 2: He did.
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe to be transported to Israel. Tell us about some of these deals, how they were made. These are deals that he would make with the Russians in exchange for favors.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Essentially, what would happen, he was able to persuade the Russians. That was his prime job to help Israel get these Jews out of the Soviet Union. And he moved 30,000 and more at a time. And in return, he provided the Russians with the well, his particular friends in there, the KGB and what have you, with the most lavish gifts.
He used their banks. He also became very, very close to the Politburo and so on. Now this information was priceless to Mossad because he persuaded the Russians to allow him to bring into the Soviet Union his computers from his factories. He had a lot large number of businesses making and selling computers. He began to set up this complete network of interrelated companies which were targeted at moving into the West and stealing our technology, which he knew about and took part in because he was director of many of these companies.
And his job was to he walked both sides of the fence almost on the road. He was extraordinary. I mean, one day he would be with president Reagan in the White House. The next day he would be in the Kremlin doing a deal which would be in favor of Israel. And I remember what David Kimshee, the former deputy director of of Mossad told me.
He said, you know, Robert Maxwell had one philosophy. It was Israel first, last, and all. But never forget that when you write about him. He was for us a great patriot. And that was so, but therefore you may wonder, well, why did they have to get rid of him?
Well, what happened? Maxwell became more and more in love with himself, I suppose, with his power, his authority, his connections. Nobody he felt could dare challenge him, dare say no to him. He once said, prime ministers come and go, presidents come and go, but I'll be here forever. And so what happened on that premise, he was approached by Vladimir Khrushchev of the KGB to ask him if he would assist in a plot to overthrow Mikhail Gorbachev who had just, you know, taken power in Russia and was bringing democracy, Perestroika, into that devastated country.
And Maxwell thought, where's the deal for me here? And they said, well, you can handle the national debt if we pull this off. And that would have meant a very good very good take for him because he's on 15% of of everything you get on that. So he went to Israel and he said to his friends at Mossad, how about this? Shall we get involved?
We should get involved, he kept saying. And he outlined what the plan was. What he hadn't realized, he had totally misclicked miscalculated one thing. There were those high up in the Israeli government and in Mossad who were horrified at the idea that anybody would want to remove Gorbachev because it would immediately bring them into confrontation with The United States. America saw Gorbachev as the only possible hope for salvation in Soviet Union, which was, you know, powerful threat.
They fought against it. So though in fact, it wasn't that powerful a threat as we were to discover. And the idea of overthrowing Gorcev and probably assassinating him, with Israel being implicated through Maxwell or perhaps even worse implicated through other forces horrified them. And they they thought Maxwell has gone a step too far. At the same time, he was running out of banks.
He was borrowing and spending and losing. And his once powerful newspaper empire was beginning to totter partly due to union troubles. He couldn't stave off huge expenses. Never mind the 50¢, that poor reporter, but he was running into huge bills, printing difficulties, all the things that we've seen Murdoch deal with and overcome successfully, I think. Maxwell couldn't, and he was losing money.
Money was pouring out.
Speaker 1: I believe you pointed out in your book that at at the time of decline, he was about $2,200,000,000 in the red. And his and his creditors didn't they really didn't know how bad it was. They just you know, each of the creditors knew that they were losing money, but nobody really knew how how deeply in debt Maxwell's empire was running at the time. And so Maxwell, according to your book, Maxwell was running scared. He he he knew he was he was sinking and sinking fast, and he had to come up with a way to get out of debt.
So the pressure was on Maxwell to make a deal with somebody who could bail him out financially. Just recently, Gordon, I I interviewed mister William Hamilton, the president of Islam, and we talked to him about how the Israeli Mossad stole his promise software.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: And you brought that out first in your book, Seeds of Fire. Mhmm. Now what I didn't what I didn't know until I read this new book, Robert Maxwell, Israel Superspy, was it Robert Maxwell basically was the salesman Yeah. For Promise. He's the one who took it and marketed it around the world.
Oh, for let's back up and and talk about first how Israel got their hands on the Inslaw Promise software.
Speaker 2: Well, it was the most brilliant coup pulled off by that most brilliant spy master of all, Rafi Iitan of Mossad. He, at the time, was in his late middle years, but extraordinary man. You have to think of Rafi like a small tank is the best way to describe him. He is physically so powerful. He has also got this amazing ability to change his appearance with just a minimum of disguise.
I remember talking to him about this when I've known I interviewed Raffy many times, and he's appeared in other books of mine with his spy craft and what have you. And he said, you know, all this stuff about beards and all this stuff you could disguise is all nonsense, he said. All you need to do, he said, is put cotton wadding in your cheeks or up your nose. You need to wear a pair of glasses. If you don't smoke, smoke.
If you take a pipe, it's perfect. If you don't use one, And that's it. And he may adopt a limp, he said. Now the point is he took on the guise when he went to see Bill Hamilton at Inslaw. He took on the guise of a per of a public prosecutor from Israel.
What he'd done, he had got hold of this real public prosecutor's passport and just simply had his forgers slip Rafi's photograph into the passport. And he came though he was wanted by US customers for questioning over other matters to do with intelligence operations against America, Raffy just bowled on through Kennedy Airport. Nobody spotted him. Nobody says, that looks like Raffy, your turn, because he had just nicely disguised himself. And he turned up at Insta, and he went in, and he asked to see how this might work because at the time, Insta was selling it, of course, as a piece of software to use by public prosecutors to track down criminals.
And Rafi said there are plenty of these criminals, as you know, in Israel, unfortunately, laughing. Yet he has this funny little laugh which is not really a laugh. It's like a chilling breeze that goes past you as he has it comes out of his mouth. And Bill Hamilton and Nancy Burke Hamilton and his small staff were totally taken in by Raffy. And he sat down.
He had his tea with him and all that stuff. And only when he left, as Bill told me, did he realize something strange about this guy, but he didn't know what. Well, Raffi went back, and with a brilliant ploy, he went back to see his contact at the justice department because he had facilitated justice to get him into America by simply saying he was coming from the public prosecutor's office in Israel and would like to see the software he'd heard about. So he goes back, and he goes into the office of a man called Brewster who is in charge of liaison within which is Hamilton's company. And Raffy says, so, Brewster, how did it go?
And Raffy says, wonderful variant. He said, oh, my god. He said, I forgot something. And Brewster said, bloody, what did you forget? He said, I forgot to ask mister Hamilton for a copy of his software.
Now Raffy knew instinctively if he'd asked Bill to write a copy, he would never have got it, of course, because Bill wasn't gonna part of that priceless software of his. Brewster said, no problem, mister, the name he's given as a public prosecutor. No problem. And he gave him a copy. And Raffi said to me, sometimes you don't have to work very hard to pull something off.
And that's how he got it. And he goes back to Israel. Now
Speaker 1: A justice department official just literally handed
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: To the one of the top Mossad agents handed the promise offer.
Speaker 2: And this, of course, has become a matter of huge grief for mister and missus Hamilton and Inslaw. And as you know, they are still battling to the courts to get justice for themselves without any success so far. But Raffi goes back to Israel, and he recognized, well, I just can't lift this as it is. I need to do something more than that. And he sits down with that other rogue of the story who who is Ari Ben Menashe, who'd worked for him.
And Ari Ben Menashe had been a very senior intelligence officer who had fallen foul of the Israeli intelligence establishment and was now outside the the loop, so to speak. Well, they sat down and Raffy sat there and said, what do we need? What do we need? He said, I know what we need. We'll deconstruct this, take it apart, rebuild it, but nobody can ever accuse us of stealing it because it'll look different.
So his people took time to do that. They did it. But they then said, we need something else, Raffi said. We need to know what people are doing with this. And he said, I know what we need, a trapdoor.
Now this trapdoor would not be a trapdoor like we think of a trapdoor falling through. Would be a piece of something inserted in the software, which to this day, people don't know. They try to find it. It's amazing. What it does, it's a little device which goes into this piece of software.
And if you if you if you take the thing apart, the device just goes foot gone. And the Israeli said, we can do it, but we shouldn't build a trapdoor here because it may just may be traced by the CIA who are good at this or the British intelligence who are equally good, trace back to us, and then we have a problem. We need to be absolutely undetectable. So Ari Beminashi said, said, I know a place. And he came to California, and he talked to this guy he'd known some years ago who ran a little company in California, and he persuaded him to build the trapdoor.
He gave him $5,000 in cash for it. And the guy said, I know it's no question time, but is this from Mossad? And Harry said to him as he told me, you're right. It's no question time, and laughed and walked away. Now they installed the trapdoor.
Then they had to test it. And so they went to another element of the story, a man called Earl Bryan, who's now doing time in the penitentiary for mass fraud and what have you. And L. O'Brien had been very close to president Reagan and had, in fact, worked for him.
Speaker 1: And, actually, Gordon, I I I I worked for a brief period of time for Earl O'Brien.
Speaker 2: Right. So you know a bit about Yes.
Speaker 1: Do. I worked for him just before he went to prison. Right. He owned he owned several television networks.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: He owned the the Learning Channel, and he owned
Speaker 2: Oh, he's a clever guy. No question.
Speaker 1: All the financial news channel that later Right. Sold to CNBC.
Speaker 2: They well, that's the man. Well, now what happened? He had a at the time, he had a company called Hadron. And this company was a specialist company. So Raffi used his company to test out if the trapdoor would work, and they ran the test against their neighbor, Jordanian intelligence, and it did work.
But both Ari Ben Menashi and Raffi Aiten came to the same conclusion very quickly. Earl Bryan, for all his brilliance and willingness and all this stuff, did not have the resources that they wanted. And they said one word, Robert said Benvenashi, and and Rafi completely said, yep. Maxwell. He's the man.
So Maxwell was hauled in, and he immediately saw for himself this was a wonderful chance to make money. And he wasn't didn't understand software at that stage, but my goodness me. He was on a fast learning curve. And he set off to sell Promise, which is the name of the software. And the ironic thing is and the cheeky thing is that Raffi Atan decided, and this is what really, really does tick off poor old Bill Hamilton is this.
Raffy Aten decided, oh, I'll keep that name promise. It's such a good name for selling. And so he stole it. Not only does he stole the name as well.
Speaker 1: And it he he actually sold it as promised.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. It's still sold as promised. Now he went off around the world. Maxwell then became not just super spy, but ultra super salesman. He went off around the world, and he pulled it off brilliantly.
Speaker 1: Gordon, briefly explain to our listeners why Mossad wanted Maxwell to sell this promise software to other government agencies around the world. He sold it, I guess, to Canada and and European nations. What was what was Mossad's hidden motive in getting this PROMISE software into the government computers of other nations?
Speaker 2: Well, very simply, it gave Mossad an inside track view of what was happening when everybody was using promise. Sitting in Tel Aviv, Raffi Atan and his technicians would know exactly what was going on in those departures, in those people using it. For instance, excuse me, for instance, when they were when he saw and by the way, Raffi Atan didn't just heard the government's big, but government's small. For instance, he went to his first client was Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe, and he told Mugabe how to use it to track why fam farmers who might be plotting against him. It's very simple how it works, yet very, very complex.
With a piece of paper once, I'm sure Bill Hamilton has said it much better than me, but with a single piece of paper, you can pretty well track anybody in that person's life where he's done his phone calls and so on. It's like a never widening ripple that goes on and on. And the information is just priceless when it comes back because it's all sorted and coded for you and decoded and so on. Or what he was able to do by selling it for instance, he would go to the Russians and you need this to keep track of what your little friends in the in the Soviet satellites are doing and Koyshe said, you're absolutely right. And Maxwell would demonstrate it, and the Russians KGB would have it.
What they didn't realize, sitting in Tel Aviv, there were people listening to what the KGB would do. Became extraordinary because Maxwell enabled the Israelis who survived by the simple premise that knowledge is all, and the more knowledge, the more powerful you are. They were able to listen in to the Syrians. Maxwell sold it at cut price lots to the Egyptians. He sold it everywhere.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling, Gordon, that this promise, the the early version of promise, I have a feeling that it is most likely the the foundation for DARPA's new total information awareness data mining program that that Poindexter's setting up in the Pentagon because
Speaker 2: No that's doubt.
Speaker 1: That's what they're gonna do. They're gonna they're gonna track every electronic electronic transaction and communication of every person in in The United States. And I just I just have a good feeling that Promise was the the foundation for this super snoop software.
Speaker 2: It was. And, you know, the ironic thing is this, mister Hanson, the renegade rogue FBI agent, he passed it to his Russian control Soviet control Russian controllers rather. And he got money for it, of course. And they sold it to Bin Laden. And I have just done an op ed piece on this because today, Laden has survived because, and Hamilton has confirmed this to me as well, because he has a version of promise which enables him to be ahead of us when we're looking for him.
You see, the advantage is with this promise system, you can do the most astonishing things, and this is a terrifying thing. I'm sure Bill Hamilton told you this, how efficient it is. It's it is reckoned to be within the intelligence world, perhaps the most priceless piece of software ever created, and it's still so valuable today. But Bill Larden has a copy now. Now, Hansen sold it to the BMD, which is German internal external intelligence.
They only became suspicious something wrong was was with it only after 09:11 when they realized that something was happening to their intelligence intercepts. And they said, we don't know, but we think there's something wrong here. And it was, of course, another version of the trapdoor because after Maxwell had sold it everywhere, news of the trapdoor leaked in Canada when Ben Menashe, who lives in Montreal, was picked up and questioned about this and his involvement.
Speaker 1: Gordon, was the CIA aware of the trapdoor?
Speaker 2: Not initially because they were building their own version of promise, which they'd also got from justice.
Speaker 1: So this had this one for years with only the, Israeli Mossad knowing about the trapdoor.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the things that's in this book that just really, opened my eyes, stunned me, was, Gordon's, revelation of the of the relationship between Robert Maxwell and former Texas US senator John Tower, who was at one time probably the most powerful member of the US senate. Gordon but, let's talk about John Tower's involvement. How did how did Tower get involved with Robert Maxwell, and what did Maxwell use Tower to do?
Speaker 2: Well, originally, Israel arranged for Henry Kissinger to facilitate the introduction to Tower. Maxwell wanted Tower for Israel to be his door opener into the Reagan administration, and more important of all, to be his door opener into the nuclear arsenal of America, which was Los Alamos. Tower at the time, as you know, had just retired from his post as chairman of the senate armed forces committee. He knew everybody in the intelligence forces everywhere. And so Maxwell struck a deal with Tower.
He would pay him $200,000 a year plus wonderful bonuses in any currency he wanted at any bank he wanted in the world because Maxwell had banks everywhere. And in fact, Tower became his door opener. So Israel had a door opener in Maxwell. Maxwell had a door opener in Tower. Tower became the man who would usher in Robert Maxwell in to see Reagan, attorney general Mies, anybody he wanted.
And it was Max it was Tower who finally and speedily arranged for Robert Maxwell to sell a doctored version of promise with the trapdoor to the Sandia Laboratories in Los Alamos.
Speaker 1: Tower Wait a minute. A minute. John Tower, former senator of Texas Mhmm. Enabled helped Robert Maxwell to sell the promise software with the Israeli Mossad trapdoor to our to our nuclear laboratory at Los Alamos
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Which gave the Israelis a window into Los Alamos.
Speaker 2: Correct. And we substantiate every word of that by the FBI documents we have obtained with the help of Bill Hamilton, and we've obtained elsewhere, which show exactly how the FBI had tried to track this. And we detail how the then director of the FBI found his moves blocked almost certainly from the White White House, almost certainly with people at the level of Bill Casey of the CIA, wine Weinberger, and people like that. A lot of people suddenly decided it was not a good idea to have this investigation into what how Maxwell had got into Los Alamos. And that's very frightening because, in fact, it was power his influence, his power still that blocked off the investigation.
Speaker 1: Gordon, at that time, was was it William Webster who was FBI?
Speaker 2: William Webster was the head of
Speaker 1: the FBI. Webster was all he was onto this scandal, and and he was trying to investigate the Israeli Mossad penetration of Los Alamos, but high level Reagan White House operatives blocked the FBI investigation.
Speaker 2: That's right. And it's to this day, it's blocked, and it's amazing because to this day, you will never get to the bottom of that. I mean, there's been many attempts, and we've come as close as anybody, I think, in what we've detailed. But, you know, it was extraordinary because he I mean, we have actually his pitch speech Maxwell's pitch speech to Sandia, which is marvelous. It's a wonderful piece of theater he puts himself through.
And the result is he sells the doc he sells it, and it's in there. Now what happened was that when the FBI became suspicious, having been alerted by their fuel stations, they're blocked off, and they can't do anything. And Maxwell got away with that with the help of Tower. Tower was so extraordinary because Tower gave additional respectability to Maxwell's kind of cover.
Speaker 1: Was was John Tower aware of the hidden motive of Robert Maxwell?
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. There's no question about it. John Tower knew, and John Tower took the Maxwell dollar, if you like, or the Maxwell's shilling.
Speaker 1: So you're saying John Tower I mean, he was a traitor to The United States Of America. This was You
Speaker 2: could say that in the simplest way. He was a traitor in that sense
Speaker 1: because guy was a right wing Republican US senator from the state of Texas. Yep. And he sold us down the river.
Speaker 2: Yep. And, you know, the point is he did it because he was greedy and pretentious.
Speaker 1: And he had a he had a reputation for for, you know, hard living and drinking. That was one reason he I I think he you know, his his nomination was turned down as secretary of defense. They, you know, they tried to get him into the defense department. Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes. He became next to Maxwell a priceless asset for Mossad because he would tell Maxwell everything. Maxwell refused straight back to Tel Aviv. Maxwell took him to Bulgaria. He took him to Central Europe.
He took him everywhere. And so Tower, all the time, was talking because he did have a a serious problem with young girls and heavy booze. And Maxwell used all this. And Tower is to me as much a traitor as anybody else I've come across in a long time in the history of America. They won't like this, the Republicans.
But the fact is he was, and he was very dangerous. And what he's done, we'll never know how much Mossad owe to Tower because it's one of the things we'll never know. But all this against this background, you see, having achieved these remarkable things, Tower Maxwell, rather. He thought he was unstoppable. And so when his money problems became ones that banks were no longer prepared to handle, he went to Mossad.
He said, I want 400,000,000 right now in US dollars. And they said, look. Go to the banks. Do what Robert Rupert Murdoch did. And he says, you don't tell me what to do.
I want the money now.
Speaker 1: Now you're talking about at this point in, when when Maxwell started to run out of money. His his his empire was just $2,000,000,000 in debt. He goes to Mossad. He says, I'm broke. I need money, and Mossad needs to come up with the money.
Speaker 2: That's right. You see, his his repayment, his interest was 300,000,000 a year. You think of that. Just interest payments. He couldn't keep up with them.
And he was juggling day and night, and, you know, and he wanted
Speaker 1: to force them. Basad told him, he said, just just do what Rupert Murdoch did. Go to your bankers, plead mercy, and and ask them to refinance.
Speaker 2: But That's right.
Speaker 1: But but Maxwell was too arrogant, too too proud.
Speaker 2: Absolutely right. And and so he began to
Speaker 1: he began to threaten Mossad.
Speaker 2: He did indeed. And you see, he'd also lost the wise counsel in some ways of Tower. Tower's by then dead in a mysterious prime plane crash. Now one of the interesting things we discovered in our investigation, how many people around Maxwell who are quite key have all died mysteriously? We have a whole section on that.
If anyone wants to read a thrill about how people die mysteriously, have a look at that section. It's quite
Speaker 1: I forgot about John Tower dying in a plane crash.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: Do you have any do you have any clues on what happened there?
Speaker 2: Well, you'll see what Maxwell says. We have the direct transcript of what he says. He says, who knows? It might have been dot dot dot. But Maxwell was then worried because we discover from his staff and it by the way, we we source over a 100 people, you know, directly, so it's not a question of making this up in any sense.
It's all there, all on transcript, all on tape, and everything else. And he starts to pressurize the one people you can't pressurize Mossad. And the result is they said he has to go. And the last part of the book is a textbook of how you put together the perfect assassination.
Speaker 1: Basically, Mossad became afraid that a a desperate financially desperate Maxwell Yep. Was was going to to double cross them, backstab them, and began to with his media empire, he was gonna begin to expose Mossad activities as as extortion against Mossad to get the money. So Mossad said, we gotta put this guy out of business. We we're gonna have to you know, we need to bump this guy off. So tell us we we only have a few minutes here.
Tell us about this top secret Israeli Mossad assassination team and this elaborate plan to to kill Robert Maxwell.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, they spent weeks researching. They put together a team. It's called a Kidon unit. Kidon means bayonet, and it isn't a very appropriate team. It's the only assassination team in any intelligence agency in the world which works full time only on killing people.
And it's still in existence today, and it's killed dozens since Maxwell. But his job in this case was to carry out the perfect assassination that looked like an accident. So they looked at a number of quick ideas they could do. First, could they toss him, break his elevator, and let him fall as he came out of his high rise apartment? No.
There's a risk that he might have other people in the in the elevator and kill them. Secondly, could they sabotage one of his aircraft? They could make it look like a crash, like perhaps John Tower died in a mysterious way, but then there'd be other people on the plane as well. They finally decided the only way to kill him was at sea as if he drowned. And so they studied him physically, they studied him mentally, and they studied everything.
And what they did, they put the four man team together and they had a drug, a lethal nerve agent, which the team was to inject into his neck. First, they had to get him on deck alone. So they concocted a scheme. They said to him, alright. They called him up in London and said, look.
Okay. We said no to your money. Okay. Tell you what we do. You come to the Canary Islands in the Atlantic on your boat, and we'll tell you what to do.
So and he said, do I get the money? He said, we'll tell you what to do. Relax. So he set sail from Gibraltar out to out to see in the Atlantic, and he's moved here and there. And it's a wonderful piece of example of how Mossad really do plan and plot.
And and they put an electronic net over the whole area so there could be no they would know everything you know, signals coming from the boat to the boat. They'd know everything. There'd be no mystery for them. And then the four man team set off in their own boat, they waited until they got their instructions. Maxwell was then told in what he thought was a call emanating from Tel Aviv.
It wasn't. It was coming from one of the backup boats that the mosque had had in the area. And it told Maxwell to be on deck in the early hours of that morning and that he was to wait there on the port side and used to make sure the deck was empty. And they would hand him his money order. And they said, you know, now you understand, Robert.
When you've got this money, that's it. You don't come anymore. You just understand that. Okay? And he was so he said, absolutely understood.
Of course, 400. Wow. Wow. Terrific. No problem.
Well, it went clockwork smooth because they'd rehearsed and rehearsed it. They came alongside. And you have to think of the boat. The boat is a very large boat. It's not a little rowing boat.
The all the crew were mostly on, sleep watch. There was only a minimal crew on on on the bridge, and they were peering forward anyway. The where Maxwell's total stand was right at the aft, and they came up on the opposite side of the boat. You the boat was traveling. It's a it's a big powerful boat, and they were able to scramble on board because they, you know, were trained for that.
They came on board across the deck, jabbed him in the deck, lowered him into the water, still alive, and then they drowned him as if he'd fallen over the side. Now all this is in the last 100 or so pages would be deal with them. We would never have been able to prove this and show it if we had not got the original autopsy reports from Spain, from doctor Ian West, and from Israel. Now these were given to us by Betty Maxwell, the widow, and Isabel Maxwell, Robert's twin daughter. The other twin, of course, is Ghislain from whom the boat was named.
And it was these people who finally decided the time had come, the truth had to be told. And the result was the story we have, the murder of Robert Maxwell.
Speaker 1: Oh, Gordon. An incredible story. Incredible work of research. And I appreciate you taking time today from to call us from your home in Ireland and tell us this this untold story about the the the murder of Robert Maxwell, Israel super spy.
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
Interview happened in 2003, keep that in mind. Before Epstein became mainstream or anything like that.
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If you’d like to follow @realRickWiles or @TruNews. They’re both good accounts.
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
Meet Robert Maxwell, real name Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch. He’s the father of Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein’s right hand lady & he’s buried in Jerusalem. It’s pretty obvious who they worked for. 🇮🇱 https://t.co/YygRZiANRK
Video Transcript AI Summary
Robert Maxwell, born Hoch in a primitive village in Carpathia, Czechoslovakia, was one of seven children in a poor, Jewish family. He joined the underground after Hitler's invasion, was captured, and escaped. In September 1940, he arrived in Britain to fight. After the war, he learned his family was wiped out in the Holocaust. Maxwell stated his relatives helped ensure they would not be forgotten, as evidenced by a memorial in Jerusalem. The speaker observed Maxwell drawing inward when discussing this tragedy.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: So what does he do? He keeps building his empire. Bye. Bye. Bye.
I met Maxwell when he came to Jerusalem. I was interested in making a film about him because Maxwell was an intriguing character to me. And I was an Oscar nominated director, and that's the kind of man he would wanna work with. I was invited to his suite at the King David Hotel, which is a very famous hotel in Jerusalem, for brunch. He asked me, are you going to record this?
And I took out a small tape machine and pressed record. He started by telling me where he came from. He told me Robert Maxwell wasn't even his real name.
Speaker 1: My surname was Hoch, h o c h. I was born in a small village in Carpathia, Rofenia, which is the Eastern part of Czechoslovak. A very primitive village. I was one of seven children. My parents were poor farm workers.
It was a Jewish family. Hitler's invasion of Czechoslovakia resulted in my joining the underground. I was eventually captured. I managed to escape. After the collapse of France, I landed in Britain in September 1940 with a rifle in my hand to help carry on the fight.
At the end of the war, I discovered the fate of my parents and my sisters and brothers, relatives and neighbors.
Speaker 0: He told me that his family was wiped out during the Holocaust.
Speaker 1: As they realized that they've been tricked into a gas chamber, many of them. But one thing they helped is that they will not be forgotten. And this memorial in Jerusalem proves it.
Speaker 0: I I saw the change in him. He drew inward. There were no other words. Nothing exchanged.
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
Yes, jews stole the PROMIS software, another rabbi hole. https://t.co/h5Yc1dVwvx
Video Transcript AI Summary
The report centers on allegations that the CIA sold a computer program called Promise to foreign nations, including Australia, with a hidden backdoor to spy on them. Promise, developed by Inslaw, was designed to track vast amounts of information. Inslaw owner, Bill Hamilton, claims the US government pirated the software. Ari Ben Menashi, a former Israeli intelligence agent, alleges Israel knew about the backdoor, unlike Australia.
Computer expert Michael Ricconisciutto claims he modified Promise for Australia at ASIO's request. A judge ruled the Justice Department illegally bankrupted Inslaw and ordered the government to pay $8 million. It's alleged the Reagan campaign made a deal with Iran to delay the release of American hostages until after the 1980 election, with the Promise software as a payoff.
Former Attorney General Elliot Richardson, now representing Inslaw, calls for a full investigation. Journalist Danny Casolaro, investigating the Promise affair and the alleged Reagan-Iran deal, was found dead, with his death ruled a suicide. Ricconisciutto claims he was threatened by a Justice Department official to back off. A congressional inquiry is underway, but the Justice Department is accused of stonewalling the investigation.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Hello. Thanks for joining us. Tonight, the international spy scandal with an Australian connection. And later, we'll talk to South Africa's foreign minister, Pick Borta, a man on a mission to improve relations between between Canberra and Pretoria. It's a spy scandal that's already rocked the White House, an intrigue that could threaten the presidency of George Bush.
This story centers on incredible allegations of spying scale never before imagined. It involves America's Central Intelligence Agency selling computer programs to foreign nations. These programs allegedly allowed the CIA to spy on the intelligence agencies that bought it. And one of the purchases was Australia. We've been able to track down two key witnesses to those dealings, witnesses who are now in fear of their lives.
Michael Holmes reports.
Speaker 1: It may be the most bizarre spy story ever. A story of corruption and betrayal at the highest levels of the American government. A story of hostages used as pawns, of the CIA spying on its friends, of murders made to look like suicides.
Speaker 2: I think it's about time to get the whole story out.
Speaker 1: His name is Ari Ben Menashi. He's a former Israeli intelligence agent.
Speaker 2: Once it's out, there's no reason to hurt me physically anymore.
Speaker 1: And today, he is hiding in Australia in fear, he says, of his life. So many people in the last ten years who were working
Speaker 2: for the various governments on these issues, due to cover ups died mysteriously.
Speaker 1: He claims The United States tried to spy on ASIO, the Australian Security Intelligence Organization, by selling it a computer program that contained a hidden keyhole, a lock for which the CIA had a master key. The computer software is called Promise. It's designed to track millions of pieces of information on tens of thousands of people, and it's alleged to have been installed in dozens of government departments and security agencies around the world. It's also alleged that American intelligence made some small modifications to the program, modifications that enabled it to key in a special access code and gain entry to all the information on the computer.
Speaker 3: It would be equivalent to going into ASIO or ASIO and reading the handwritten files of all the agents except the computer has neatly organized and typed and instantly indexed. So it's much more convenient.
Speaker 1: Bill Hamilton owns Inslaw, the company that developed promise and offered it to the American government.
Speaker 3: They would not have bothered to sell it to all these countries without first preparing it in such a way that it would be an easier avenue of penetration into the files of these foreign governments.
Speaker 1: The whole story might never have emerged, but for the fact that the American government didn't own Promise. It pirated the software from Bill Hamilton's company.
Speaker 3: We were dumbfounded, couldn't conceive of it.
Speaker 1: Hamilton's contract with the US Department of Justice to supply the promised software was cancelled in 1982 without any real explanation. Only some time later did Hamilton hear that his software was turning up all over the world.
Speaker 3: I don't how much Australia paid. I've been told that Israel paid 5,500,000.0.
Speaker 1: Ari Ben Menashi confirms that Promise was sold to Israel, but claims the Israelis, unlike the Australians, were in on the secret.
Speaker 2: The whole idea was that we would study it. The Americans then would sell it to our neighbors, and then we could, by using telephone lines, get into their our neighbors' computers. But then our American friends just took it a step further. They sold it to their allies as well, including Australia.
Speaker 1: The list of countries which allegedly bought the promise software reads like a who's who of America's friends as well as its most bitter enemies. Is spying on your friends considered, you know, a fair thing to do in the intelligence world?
Speaker 3: Oh, it is. It's always done. Using a Trojan horse to go inside the agency, that gets a little aggressive. You know?
Speaker 1: It all sounds a bit too bizarre to be true, but we've now been able to track down a key witness to a prison near Seattle in Washington State. So you are 100% sure that promise or a derivative of promise was bought by Australia to be used in
Speaker 4: our intelligence and law enforcement Absolutely. Because I I spent several thousand man hours of programming time with a programming team, you know, developing that subset.
Speaker 1: This unlikely looking character is a computer genius. His name is Michael Ricconisciutto, and he says he was in charge of modifying the promise program so that it could be accessed by American intelligence. So whoever was holding that master key could do what? Basically, break into it and spy. ASIO says it doesn't have and has never had the PROMISE software.
Of course, it won't go into any detail about what sort of computer programs it does have, which is very handy because according to Michael Riconocciutto, the PROMISE software was often altered and given different names before it was sold. Indeed, Riconocciutto claims he specifically modified the program for Australia at the request of ASIO.
Speaker 4: I basically had to change the communications protocol, which is how that software package interacts with other software packages already resonant in the computer system.
Speaker 1: In a federal court hearing, judge George Basin ruled the justice department had used illegal and underhanded methods to bankrupt Bill Hamilton's Inslaw company. He ordered the government to pay Inslaw $8,000,000.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Trickery, fraud, and deceit. You use those words when describing how the justice department stole the software. Do you stand by those words?
Speaker 6: Yes. I there's no question in my mind about it. The evidence was overwhelming.
Speaker 1: So why was the justice department so desperate to get the software from Bill Hamilton? To answer that, you have to go back to 1980. Iran had seized American hostages.
Speaker 0: All evidence proves that these people are spies.
Speaker 1: If president Carter could secure their release, he'd have a big advantage in the upcoming US elections.
Speaker 7: My thoughts and my prayers for our hostages in Iran are as though they were my own sons and daughters.
Speaker 1: It's now alleged that the Reagan campaign made a deal with the Iranians, a deal to keep the hostages until after the election, thus denying Carter the credit for their freedom. The man alleged to have helped organize this deal is a Reagan political crony called Earl Bryan, and his payoff three years later on the Promise Software. About an hour and a half Washington DC, you'll find this place, Earl Bryan's multimillion dollar country estate. If you believe Michael Ricconisciutto, it's the house promise bought. Now we'd like to bring you Earl Bryan personally denying that claim, but he's not being interviewed by anybody.
All we got was this letter from his lawyers threatening action if we so much as associate Earl Bryan's name with this story.
Speaker 3: He had the contacts to help make sure that certain elements in Iran would not make a deal with president Carter in 1980 so that president Carter could not recover in the polls and that Reagan would win the election.
Speaker 8: I, Ronald Reagan, do solemnly swear
Speaker 1: that I'm Just five minutes after Ronald Reagan took the oath of office, Iran announced that the hostages would be released.
Speaker 8: Some thirty minutes ago, the planes bearing our prisoners left Iranian airspace and are now free. And
Speaker 0: the story doesn't end there. In a moment, the murders that have been linked to the spy scandal. There are many shady characters in this story, spies, former spies, people with something to hide. But there are players with impeccable credentials too. In part two of this investigation, we meet a man whose background more than qualifies him to know a scandal when he smells one.
Speaker 5: What is being said about this conspiracy points to criminal conduct much worse than anything in Watergate.
Speaker 1: And Elliot Richardson should know. Seventeen years ago, he resigned as US attorney general on a matter of principle after clashing with Richard Nixon during the Watergate scandal. Today, Richardson is legal counsel for Inslaw, and once again, he has the White House in his sights.
Speaker 5: It might be reluctant to have it emerge that the the US government had, through clandestine means, planted software on foreign intelligence agencies so that The US would be better able, if the phrase goes, to read their mail.
Speaker 4: The number of murders that have occurred to prevent leaks are incredible. There's nearly 50 murders that can be directly ascribed to this pattern of activity.
Speaker 1: The promise affair and the allegation that Ronald Reagan and George Bush made a deal for the hostages to be kept until after the nineteen eighty election were being investigated by journalist and author Danny Casalero.
Speaker 5: He said he had it. He had some already, and he was going to West Virginia to meet the source who had given him that evidence. This source was now, he said, going to supply additional conclusive proof.
Speaker 1: But Danny Castellero never got to reveal either his source or the hard evidence he said was going to break the scandal wide open. On August, his body was found in this hotel room in West Virginia. His wrists had been slashed an incredible 12 times. Danny Casolaro's body was found naked in a pool of bloody water in the bathtub. All his papers were gone.
Within hours, local police had declared the death a suicide.
Speaker 4: You have a case of forensic artistry, you know, shall we say, where you have professionally trained people that set up a crime scene, and they make it phenomenally difficult for investigators to to backtrack, make a murder look like a suicide.
Speaker 9: His body was embalmed by Monday morning by the time we found out. That is against the law in West Virginia. His body was embalmed without family consent. That certainly makes an autopsy a little more difficult.
Speaker 1: Tony Casalaro says his brother Danny There pictured here at a nephew's birthday, just wasn't the suicidal type. Somebody's birthday.
Speaker 9: His birthday. He was describing for me a few weeks before he died what he was doing and some of the people involved. And he said a lot of accidents had happened to people who were working on the things that he had been working on. He said, you know, if an accident happens to me, don't believe it.
Speaker 1: But bad things seem to happen to people who make waves in the affair. Earlier this year, Michael Ricconisciutto contacted Bill Hamilton and signed a sworn affidavit for Hamilton's lawsuit against the justice department. Do you believe Michael Ricconisciutto did alter the software as he claimed he
Speaker 3: did? Yes. I I do.
Speaker 1: Almost immediately, Ricconisciutto was contacted by a justice department official and given a very clear message.
Speaker 4: Back off or else. Less
Speaker 1: than two weeks after that threat, Michael Ricconisciutto was arrested on drug charges.
Speaker 4: My main concern right now is staying alive protecting my family.
Speaker 1: Right. And remember judge Basin, who found in favor of inslaw against the justice department. Right. Well, a few months later, judge Basin's reappointment to the bench, thought to be a formality, was blocked by the justice department.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: His career has been destroyed. Would you still be a judge if you hadn't handed down the decision you did?
Speaker 6: I think I would be. I rendered the, quote, wrong decision in the case of Innslaw versus Department of Justice.
Speaker 1: Your replacement in the bankruptcy court was a lawyer who argued for the justice department in this case. Yes. It does that smell? Is that
Speaker 6: worthy? It's certainly an odd coincidence, isn't it?
Speaker 3: Every time you figuratively pick up a rock, in this case, you find maggots under it.
Speaker 0: Michael Holmes reporting on the saga that is now the subject of a US congressional inquiry. Next up, South Africa's
Speaker 10: Attorney General Elliot Richardson, who now represents INSLAW, says there's only one way to find the truth. If there was not enough reason before
Speaker 5: to justify full scale, all out, hard hitting, impartial federal investigation. The case for doing that now is overwhelming. Former Attorney General Ed Meese disagrees.
Speaker 11: The question is whether there's any legal basis for it, and I think the people who have looked into it, including Attorney General Thornburg, have indicated there is no basis for it. And I would certainly have more confidence in Mr. Thornburg's judgment as an impartial person on the subject than I would Mr. Richardson, who's obviously a partisan represents one
Speaker 10: of the parties. A house subcommittee led by congressman Jack Brooks has been investigating the Inslaw case for two years. Brooks has accused the justice department of stonewalling the committee's investigation by refusing for two years to release more than four documents relating to Inslaw. Faced with a subpoena, attorney general Dick Thornburg finally produced some documents this summer, but told committee investigators some were either lost or stolen. Even president Bush is being questioned about Inslaw.
Soon, I checked.
Speaker 0: Inslaw case is present. Inslaw case, are you gonna
Speaker 10: I know his views on that. He doesn't have to explain. I know. What was the last The justice department says it has been able to reconstruct 90% of the missing documents. But a source close to the Brooks Committee says there's no way to tell how many documents are missing or how important they are to solving the mysterious in slot case.
Casey Wyand, CNN business
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“The jewish connection to the refugee, is NOT a conspiracy. That’s something we’re very very proud of.” -Bari Weiss, the Israeli spy. https://t.co/ZgyEEFWtdz
Video Transcript AI Summary
The Jewish connection to refugee aid is not a conspiracy, but a point of pride. HIAS, an organization that Robert Bowers criticized, was founded in the 1880s to assist Jews fleeing Eastern European pogroms and now aids Jews and non-Jews globally.
A Jewish man from Cairo recounted being helped after the 1967 war. The speaker highlights that the synagogue participated in Refugee Shabbat, reflecting the Jewish value of welcoming strangers, especially the most vulnerable, like refugees.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Well, that's the thing. The Jewish connection to the refugee is not a conspiracy. That's something that we're very, very proud of. The organization that Robert Bowers was constantly calling out is an organization called HIAS, which brought people including Sergei Brin to this country. It started in the eighteen eighties to bring Jews who were fleeing the pogroms of Eastern Europe.
Now they help Jews and non Jews all over the world fleeing persecution. I met a man in Arizona on Sunday, a Jew from Cairo who was helped out of Egypt following the nineteen sixty seven war. This synagogue exemplified those values. It participated in something called refugee Shabbat, the previous Saturday. It was one of the participating synagogues nationally.
And the concept, you know, as in all Jewish synagogues, that reflect the most sacred of Jewish values is the value of of welcoming the stranger and especially of welcoming, the weakest in our community, which there's no weaker category in our in our society than the refugee.
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
It's not about helping other people, it's about replacing White people. https://t.co/f3wkrVgCq9
Video Transcript AI Summary
Mass immigration into the U.S. does not reduce world poverty. The U.S. takes in 1,000,000 legal immigrants every year, while there are 3,000,000,000 people in the world making less than $2 a day. Immigrants are not typically pulled from the poorest populations because they are too poor, sick, and disconnected. Immigrants tend to come from countries with average incomes lower than Mexico, which accounts for 5,600,000,000 people.
Taking in 1,000,000 immigrants does not tackle world poverty and impacts the unemployed, working poor, vulnerable members of society, and natural resources. Even doubling immigration to 2,000,000 a year would not make a noticeable difference. The million immigrants taken are among the most energetic, better educated, and dissatisfied people who could be agents of change in their countries.
Impoverished countries add 80,000,000 more people to their populations each year. Immigration can never be an effective way to deal with the suffering people of the world because they have to be helped where they live.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: Some people say that mass immigration into The United States can help reduce world poverty. Is that true? Well, no. It's not. And let me show you why.
This gumball represents the 1,000,000 legal immigrants that The United States has taken every year on average since 1990. Now who in the world deserves our humanitarian compassion? The World Bank has one measure desperately poor of the world. They make less than $2 a day. And how many people make less than $2 a day in the world?
We'll start with Africa. In Africa alone, there are 650,000,000 people who make less than $2 a day. 650,000,000. And in India, another 890,000,000 people desperately poor. China adds another 480,000,000 people making less than $2 a day.
And, unfortunately, the rest of Asia has a heartbreaking 810,000,000 people who the World Bank say make less than $2 a day. And finally, there's a 105,000,000 of Latin America's population that are desperately poor. All told, the World Bank says there are 3,000,000,000 people in the world. 3,000,000,000 people who are desperately poor making less than $2 a day. That's 3,000 gumballs.
And every year, we take a million and suggest that we've somehow made a humanitarian difference. Of course, we don't pull our immigrants from these desperately poor populations, do we? These people are too poor, too sick, too disconnected to make it here as immigrants. We tend to pull our immigrants out of the better off poor of the world and Mexico tends to define the type of immigrant that we bring here because the plurality of people come from Mexico and Mexico is poor. How many people in the world live in countries that have average incomes lower than that of Mexico?
And the World Bank tells us that that number is these 3,000,000,000 plus another 2,600,000,000 people. 5,600,000,000 people in the world who live in countries with average incomes below that of Mexico. That's 5,600. And so what is it that the elites are telling us? They're telling us that when we take this 1,000,000 immigrants, that we somehow another are tackling world poverty, and we have to do it regardless of the effect on our unemployed, the working poor, the most vulnerable members of our society, regardless of the effect on our natural resources.
Even if we went by the most radical proposals in Washington, which are to actually double our immigration to 2,000,000 a year, which would totally overwhelm our physical, natural, and social infrastructures, we couldn't make a noticeable difference. And we may be really hurting the impoverished people of the world because the million that we do take are among the most energetic, often the better educated. Certainly, the most dissatisfied people that if they did not immigrate would be the ages for change to improve the lot of all the people in these countries. The true heroes in the global humanitarian field are the people in these countries who have the wherewithal to immigrate to another country, but instead stay in their countries to apply their skills to help their fellow countrymen. Unfortunately, our immigration system tends to entice these very type of people to abandon their countrymen.
The impossibility of making even a dent is actually worse than it looks here because last year when we took 1,000,000 immigrants, these countries added births over deaths 80,000,000 more people into the impoverished population. And this year, congress is bringing in a million legal immigrants. And this year, according to the United Nations, these countries are expected to add another 80,000,000 people. And next year, you could be quite sure that congress, unless stopped by the American voters, will bring in another million immigrants. And these countries, unfortunately, will be adding another 80,000,000 people into these impoverished nations.
We could take 5,000,000 a year, but we'd never get ahead of what's happening in these countries, not in this century. Don't you see? Immigration can never be an effective or significant way to deal with the suffering people of the world. They have to be helped where they live. 99.9% of them will never be able to immigrate to rich country.
There's no hope for that. They have to bloom where they're planted. The only place that 99.9% of these people can be helped is where they live. Let's help them there.
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
“You don’t have the vaguest clue what we’re up against do you?” -Nick Fuentes https://t.co/XPx1ybIU3N
Video Transcript AI Summary
White people don't understand why Black people don't "just get a job," while Black people remember slavery and Jim Crow. Similarly, white people, focused on personal pursuits, don't grasp Jewish historical oppression from pharaohs to Hitler. Jews feel perpetually threatened, remembering persecution and vowing to overcome enemies.
While white people want to get along, Jews see potential anti-Semitism rooted in historical events. Blacks and Hispanics are focused on their communities, struggles, and histories, like the Mexican-American War. Jews focus on historical persecutions.
White people are told to ignore these issues and focus on a "multiracial meritocracy," VR, AI, and personal pursuits, while others "go to war with Iran" and "take over the world."
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: White people look at blacks and say, I don't know, why don't you just get a job? And black people are thinking, you put us on slave ships. You whipped my ancestors. We were slaves. Jim Crow, now you think we should just get over it?
And white people are like, woah. It's the same thing with whites and Jews. Whites are out here like finding themselves. White people are out here like, I don't know if I believe in God, dude. Who cares about race, man?
I just wanna be liberal and like smoke pot and I just wanna hang out and like travel and have a good time, get my dick sucked a little bit. And you know what Jews are thinking? Jews are thinking we have been oppressed for thousands of years from pharaoh to Babylon to Hitler to Rome. They have tried to kill us, but we've never been conquered. We will kill them.
Every nation that opposes us has been destroyed. That's what they're thinking. And, you know, you're sitting next to them and you're whistling, you're like, I don't mind that per I don't mind this guy next to me. This guy next to me is probably a cool guy. We're all just people.
We all just wanna take care of our families and kinda get along. And he's sitting there thinking, this rabid anti Semite, the Romans, the Romans and the Egyptians, and Babylon for thousands of years, they persecuted us. You have no idea. You, you have, you don't have the vaguest clue what we're up against. Do you?
And if you talk like this, they say you're a low IQ anti Semite. You're you, you made hating Israel, your whole personality. I'm just in the game. I have my head in the game. I have my head in the game.
Do you? They do these black people that are tearing up our city. They have their head in the game. They're talking about their community, their people, their struggle, their history. These Hispanics that are burning down LA, they have their head in the game.
They're talking about the Mexican American war. They're saying stolen land, colonizer, our people, La Raza, our race. And the Jews have their head in the game. They're talking about Titus and Hadrian and the Romans and Jesus Christ. They're talking about Hitler and Spain and the inquisition and the Catholic church and its treasures underground that they stole and the dark ages.
And white people are being put to sleep. They are being distracted. They're being told that's all low IQ anti Semitism, man. White people are being told, multiracial meritocracy, colorblind meritocracy. Just forget about a white man.
Just, you know, forget about it. Get into VR and AI and build drones for Israel and just don't think about it too much. Just go and, hey, Chad, just go and work out and eat your fucking raw eggs, sun your balls, and go get your dick sucked and shut up while we go to war with Iran, while we take over the world.
reSee.it AI Summary
I shared that Jews often reveal their own history, referencing how some expelled from Spain during the Inquisition became the "Pirates of the Caribbean." I noted that it seems questionable for a group to respond to being expelled by turning to piracy against Christians.
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If you listen, jews will tell you theirselves. https://t.co/Dg8FRZhXjE
Video Transcript AI Summary
In 1492, the expulsion of 200,000 Jews from Spain led some to seek revenge as pirates. Sinan Reyes, "the Great Jew," was second in command to Red Beard and attacked Spanish ships. Red Beard once rescued Reyes' kidnapped son by sacking a town and blowing up a fort. Moses Cohen Henriques masterminded the capture of the Spanish Silver Fleet in 1628 with pirate Pete Hain, netting over $1 billion in today's money.
Henriques established his own pirate island. Yakov Curiel, a converso Jew, repented from piracy and became the first Baal Teshuvah pirate, settling in Safed. A "pirate rabbi" terrorized Spanish ships, kept kosher, and founded a Sephardic community in Amsterdam. Jewish pirates partnered with non-Jewish pirates, leading to cultural crossovers like Hebrew treasure maps and ships named Queen Esther. They attacked ships, shared secrets, and built trade networks. While some scholars debate the term "Jewish pirates," Jews were involved in illegal trade and raids against the Spanish empire, influencing leading pirates and resisting oppression.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: When you think of pirates, you probably think of rum guzzling, treasure hunting, eye patch wearing, yar swearing bad boys of the high seas. But did you know that centuries before Johnny Depp suited up as Jack Sparrow, there were Jews who operated under the swaying Jolly Roger. Who were these Jewish pirates of The Caribbean? What motivated them? And what kind of semi kosher mayhem did they get into?
It all started in 1492 when King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain expelled 200,000 Jews. This purge of the Jews came from a Christian clerk who wanted to stop traditional Jews from influencing conversos, Jews who had converted to Christianity. Oddly enough, the clerk himself had converso ancestors. Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition. But we guess that didn't stop him.
A number of these exiled Spanish Jews decided to seek revenge from their anti Semitic monarchs on the high seas. These long bearded, sword wielding, Spanish speaking members of the tribe were like something out of an overblown Tarantino vengeance fantasy. There was even a pirate nicknamed the Great Jew. His actual name was Sinan Reyes and he was second in command to the pirate Barbarossa, Italian for Red Beard, in the early fifteen hundreds. The duo attacked their fair share of Spanish merchant ships, but it wasn't all fun and games and bottles of kosher rum.
In the early fifteen forties, the great Jew's son was kidnapped at sea by King Charles the fifth of Spain and Red Beard recaptured the kidnapped boy in an epic series of attacks that included sacking a small Spanish town and blowing up a fort. Another Jewish pirate was Moses Cohen Henriques, considered to be one of the most successful buccaneers ever. He was supposedly the brains behind one of the biggest pirate halls in history, the 1628 capture of the Spanish Silver Fleet, a convoy of about 25 ships loaded with treasure returning from Spain's American colonies. Henriques sailed with the Dutch West India Company admiral and low key pirate Pete Hain whose anti Spanish agenda was inspired by his time as a slave on a Spanish ship. The silver and gold the duo lifted in the raid is estimated to be worth over $1,000,000,000 today.
Not bad for a day's haul. Henriques was a pretty wild guy too. He established his own pirate island where he schleped and hid his fortune, continued to advise Hain, and sailed the seven seas, eluding capture for the rest of his days. Other Jewish pirates were less tethered to the bad boy life. Yakov Curiel aka Diego Perez de Costa was a converso Jew who commanded three pirate ships in the Caribbean Seas and spent a good decade or so pillaging unsuspecting Spanish vessels.
And then, he found God. He repented for his marauding ways, became the first ever Baal Teshuvah pirate. Eventually, he made his way to the land of Israel where he settled in Safed, a city in Galilee after becoming enthralled with the mystical teachings of Rabbi Isaac Luria or the Arizal, the father of contemporary Kabbalah. Then there was the man known as the pirate rabbi who terrorized the seafare in Spanish in the late fifteen hundreds using part of his loot to found a community of Sephardic Jews in Amsterdam. The pirate rabbi supposedly kept kosher on the high seas and may have even brought a chef along with him to make sure he wasn't eating tref.
Jewish pirates tended to form partnerships with leading non Jewish pirates of the day. This often led to remarkable crossovers of Jewish and pirate culture including treasure maps written in Hebrew, ships with names like the Queen Esther and the Shield of Abraham, and tombstones in Jamaican Jewish cemeteries that bore the skull and crossbones. These sea bound raiders fought for decades against the Spanish, attacking ships and sharing Spanish naval secrets with Spain's enemies, all while building up a mercantile network connecting trading posts around the globe. Some scholars shy away from using the term Jewish pirates since a lot of the aforementioned people served in advisory roles to other leading pirates. But if we brought in the term to include buccaneers, smugglers, privateers, or in Spanish contrabandistas, there's a broad consensus that Jews at the time were involved in illegal trade and raid against the Spanish empire.
Maybe what we actually call them is not as important as just recognizing that they existed at all and recognizing that the Jewish role in early mid second millennia Caribbean maritime history was greater than we thought. These Jewish naval greats had profound influence on leading pirates at the time and took their fate into their own hands by shooting back at the empire that tried to stomp them out. And many succeeded which makes for some pretty thrilling stories of vengeance and self determination and highlights these pirates as colorful examples of Jews who stood up against their oppressors.
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@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
You see, they were kicked out of Spain before this.
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
That’s pretty scummy behavior, a country wants you out because of your shitty behavior, so what do you do? Start pillaging Christians in the sea.
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
@MarinaMedvin From the FBI files. Your stupid ass lies don’t work. https://t.co/cH1R9BRyLJ
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
It was all planned ahead of time. https://t.co/V01S501Niz
Video Transcript AI Summary
After 9/11, I visited the Pentagon and was told we were going to war with Iraq, even though there was no connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda. The explanation was that we had a strong military and could take down governments. I later learned of a memo detailing plans to take out seven countries in five years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran.
I also had the opportunity to acquire the Twin Towers, which turned out to be very fortunate for my family. After 9/11, I was lucky to avoid going downtown that day. I had the obligation to collect insurance proceeds and got help from Governor Elliot Spitzer to get $4.5 billion.
Some people believe that around 4,000 Israelis were warned not to go to work on 9/11.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: About ten days after 09:11, I went through the Pentagon, and I saw secretary Rumsfeld and and deputy secretary Wolferwitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the joint staff who had used used to work for me. And one of the generals called me, and he said, sir, you gotta come in you gotta come in and talk to me a second. I said, well, you're too busy. He said, no.
No. He says, you we've made the decision. We're going to war with Iraq. This was on or about the September 20. I said, we're going to war with Iraq.
Why? He said, I don't know. He said, I guess they don't know what else to
Speaker 1: do. So
Speaker 0: I said, well, did they find some information collect connecting Saddam to Al Qaeda? He said, no. No. He says, there's nothing new that way. They've just made the decision to go to war with Iraq.
He said, I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we can take down governments. And he said, I guess if if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail. So I came back to see him a few weeks later. And by that time, we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, are we still going to war with Iraq?
And he said, oh, it's worse than that. He said he reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. He said, I just he said, I just got this down from upstairs, meaning the secretary of defense office today. And he said, this is a memo that describes how we're gonna take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and finishing off Iran.
The truth is about the Middle East is had there been no oil there, it would be like Africa. Nobody is threatening to intervene in Africa. The problem is the opposite. We keep asking for people to intervene and stop it. And there's there's no question that the presence of petroleum throughout the region has sparked great power involvement.
Whether that was the specific motivation for the coup or not, I can't tell you. But but there was definitely there's always been this attitude that somehow we could intervene and use force in the region.
Speaker 1: I had the pleasure of working pretty much with every prime minister of Israel from Yitzhak Shamia forward. I said, what to myself, wouldn't it be fantastic if I could own the Twin Towers? We got very, very lucky. The governor of New York, George Pataki, decided one day that maybe it would be good to privatize the ownership of the World Trade Center. So I got a call from the governor's office, and they said, would you ever consider owning the World Trade Center?
It was very, very good for the family, very good for for us, and we were very, very fortunate. On the morning of 09:11, I'm getting ready, getting dressed, to go to the dermatologist. I have light colored hair, light skin. The sun is a disaster for me. I can't take the sun.
She said, okay, but you're going to the dermatologist, you're going this morning, and you're not going downtown. We got very, very lucky. And I had an obligation to collect the insurance proceeds from the policies. A new governor was just elected, Elliot Spitzer, an old friend who I knew well. And I said, Eliot, if you don't help me, I'll never collect from the insurance companies.
And guess what? He listened and he said, you know what? You're entitled. I'm gonna get you the money. And in six months, they got me the 4 and a half billion dollars.
We got very, very lucky. There was this pullet, and they made that decision to pull, and then we watched the building collapse.
Speaker 2: One of the beliefs is that some 4,000 Israelis or Jews in the New York City area were warned by instant messages not to go to work on 09:11.
Speaker 3: Four thousand Israeli citizens worked in the World Trade Center in Pentagon, and only five of them died. And at least one of those five was a Mossad agent. Misha Makeover, the company's CEO, admitted to the Israeli media that two of his employees also got the message.
Speaker 1: Goddamn it. Since when is project made him about murder? Buildings are empty. Security maintenance all our people.
Speaker 3: At the time of nine eleven, Otago was working with Commerce, a telecommunications firm founded by Kofi Alexander, a former Israeli intelligence officer. Larry Silverstein also admitted that he designed a new World Trade Center in February while the buildings were still standing. Next thing you know,
Speaker 1: we've got the designs of the building. And the first design meeting was in February.
Speaker 0: There any other nations that you would recommend that The United States launch preemptive attacks upon at this point?
Speaker 4: The answer is categorically yes. The two nations that are vying competing with each other, who will be the first to achieve nuclear weapons is Iraq and Iran. A third nation, by the way, Libya as well. While no one is watching, under the cloak is trying very rapidly to build an atomic bomb capability. The question that you ask, I think it is vital.
It's important. And that is, what do you do about it? You have to dismantle the network. And the question is, do you dismantle all of it at once? No.
The first thing you did after the wake up call on September 11 was that you took on the first regime, the obvious regime. You removed the Taliban regime and you scattered Al Qaeda although it has not been completely destroyed. Now the question is, what's your next step? Knowing that three of these nations are developing nuclear weapons. This is not a hypothesis.
It is fact. Iraq, Iran, and Libya are racing to develop nuclear weapons. So now what is the next step? I believe that the next step is to choose. It's not a question of whether you have to take action, but what kind of action and against who.
If I had to choose, should there be military action first against Iraq or first against Iran, I would choose to go after We rock.
reSee.it AI Summary
I recently shared an interview with Doug Collins, a British Sergeant who was a POW for four years after Dunkirk and made ten escape attempts, even managing to flee to Hungary. His reputation is controversial, as he's labeled a Holocaust denier and racist. This reminded me of Alexander McClelland, an Australian Holocaust survivor who also escaped multiple times from camps. It raises an interesting point about the nature of these camps, suggesting they weren't as effective as one might expect if so many were able to escape.
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
Ernst Zündel interviews Doug Collins, A British Sergeant of the Gloucestershire Regiment that was captured in the Battle of Dunkirk. Collins was a prisoner of war for 4 years, he made no fewer than ten escape attempts & even escaped from a German POW camp in Silesia, making his way to Hungary. His wiki page labels him as a Holocaust denier, racist & an antisemite.
Video Transcript AI Summary
I'm Ernst Sundal, and I was on trial for publishing a booklet. Doug Collins, a courageous journalist, defended me, and I interviewed him.
I'm here with Doug Collins, who recounted his POW experiences. Captured at Dunkirk, he was transported to a camp in Upper Silesia. Living conditions were poor, but he made four escape attempts, finally succeeding into Hungary.
He spoke about saving bits of bread, stealing maps, and traveling for two weeks, eating raw potatoes. He even traded identities with another prisoner to escape a main camp.
After the war, he was at Belsen as an interpreter. He expressed disappointment in Canada's current immigration policies, favoring pre-1967 policies that emphasized European immigration and limited the proportion of immigrants from other regions.
Full Transcript
Speaker 0: I'm Ernst Sundal, president of Sammistad Publishers in Toronto. I'm also the man behind the Voice of Freedom radio and TV broadcasts. I was on trial in Canada for having published a booklet entitled Did 6,000,000 really die? I was first tried in 1985 and again in 1988. The case was disposed of by the Canadian Supreme Court in 1992.
The law was declared unconstitutional, which meant that for nine years I had been dragged through the courts in Canada and through the jails only because I had expressed my constitutional viewpoint, my constitutionally guaranteed viewpoint. During those trials some illustrious and courageous people came to my defense as witnesses. One of them was a Canadian journalist of British background called Doug Collins. Doug Collins writes in Western Canada, but he used to be quite a famous Canadian journalist on the CBC, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, and so on. He came into Toronto, testified that this booklet was not hate propaganda and certainly didn't in his book constitute false news, and for this act of courage was vilified widely in the Canadian media.
At the time I asked him to allow me to do an interview with him because I'd always been rather fond of him. He was a man who became a prisoner of war in Germany, broke out several times, finally, successfully. In other words, he was somewhat of a hero in my own eyes long before he testified in my court case. Here is Doug Collins, a colorful, illustrious, and courageous Canadian of British stock. My name is Ernst Sundal.
I'm president of Sammistad Publishers in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I'm with one of Canada's most famous journalists, Doug Collins from Vancouver. I've been a fan of yours for a long time, and today you came to my rescue in the courtroom. So
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not sure about that, but I had a few words to
Speaker 0: say. Yeah. Well, you you certainly strode in there and and shook up the media here according to the news reports, and I want to start out by thanking you.
Speaker 1: You're very welcome.
Speaker 0: Rondo. I realized that you didn't come for me as a person because we never met before. You knew very little about me. But the principle of freedom of speech and that somebody should have the right to publish their opinions is what was at stake. You being an, well, veteran newspaper Mhmm.
Person, and you're not only involved in print media, I heard you then, Kurt, but you're also in radio and in television. Yes. So that you are an all around media person. So this is certainly a good day for me, and I was a lucky man to have you understand. I was very interested when you started your testimony this morning by you recounting your escapes from German prison camps.
I have never met too many Canadians or British POWs or even Americans that could successfully claim to have gotten away from those nasty Germans?
Speaker 1: Well, there are a few, but I wouldn't have mentioned it at all, except that Doug Christie, your lawyer, thought it was relevant, because I had been a prisoner in Germany. As I said in court, I was captured at Dunkirk, the battalion of which I was a member and I was a platoon sergeant in the battalion was covering the retreat from Dunkirk, the evacuation, so there was no chance for us to get out. And of course we were taken prisoner, and it was difficult to swim 21 miles across the channel anyway, and we were too far from the coast in any case. We were not scheduled for evacuation.
Speaker 0: And you knew that?
Speaker 1: No, actually not. We suspected it, but you know in a battle very few soldiers actually know what's going on. You know you're there, you know it's not very pleasant, but you never know what the plan is, and we didn't. But I don't think it would have made any difference anyway, because we did what we had to do, you know. And so we were taken prisoner, those of us who were left anyway, and transported to Stadig 8B in Oberschlesien, isn't it?
Or is it Niederschlesien? Lansdorf, Oberschlesien, I think, yeah, Upper Side East
Speaker 0: How did you get transported there, the method of transporting
Speaker 1: Well, we marched from the coast of France to near Luxembourg. It was a long march and not a very pleasant one, and then we were put aboard French cattle wagons, I suppose you would call them, but in any case, they were marked 40 on and eight chevaux. You know, it was the old star, 40 men or eight horses. And I think there were more than 40 men in the wagon that I was in, but anyway, it was better than walking. And we went by rail all the way to Lansdorf in Upper Silesia, and were incarcerated in Starag 8B.
That was the Hauptsstarag, you know, the main camp. And from there, it was possible to go out on working parties which were sub starrags, you know, and some were different from others. They were all prison camps, but it was better than being in the main starrag. Were you given
Speaker 0: blankets? Was it warm enough in the huts and all this? How were the living conditions?
Speaker 1: Living conditions, to be frank, were not very good. The food was very poor. I have, as a matter of fact, developed jaundice as a result of malnutrition. Eventually, Red Cross parcels started coming through, but by that time, I was pretty well gone. I'd pretty well escaped from Germany by then.
Mean, they started coming through in a spasmodic fashion. I will say, for the German army, they didn't steal the Red Cross parcels, which is what I hear the Japanese did. They were very honest in that way. And, course, I was a bit of a troublemaker, so I got into a few odd spots of bother. But, anyway, I made four attempts to escape from Germany, cut a long story short, and got out of the fourth attempt across Czechoslovakia into Hungary.
And we were my companion and I, a fellow sergeant, were interned in Hungary. We thought that we might be lucky and get to Hungary before the British embassy left, but we were unlucky. They'd left ten days previously. So we were interned and the Americans looked after our interests we went from there.
Speaker 0: Now I am particularly interested in how you escaped. There was not very much food. You had only your POW uniform, or did you have like the Germans had here with the circle on?
Speaker 1: No. We had sort of the remnants of British uniforms on, and we simply saved bits of bread and so on and so forth. This escape was staged in the summer. We had to get through barbed wire and iron bars and all that sort of thing at night, because it was impossible to get away during the day. We were too closely guarded.
But we did that, and we made our way across the fields to the South. And we did have a little bit of a map, which we stole from the German commandant's office, And and so we were able to determine I spoke German anyway, and we were able to determine approximately where we were. Also, I had obtained a compass from a French officer, And it wasn't a great compass, but it was a little tiny thing, and it was very useful for determining general direction across country. And we took potatoes out of the fields and carrots and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 0: You mean ate them raw?
Speaker 1: Ate them raw, yeah. How many days would you be en route? We were about two weeks, yeah, cross And sleep without blankets at night? Oh, sleep without blankets, yeah. Of course, you know, I was 20 years old or 21, you know, between 20 and 21, and that sort of thing came fairly easy to people of that age, I guess.
Speaker 0: Yeah. Was there no threat that if you were caught that you might get shot or anything like that?
Speaker 1: Not really. I had attempted three times before, and each time was given a sentence in solitary confinement in the main starrag, you know. But after the third attempt, the German commandant was getting a bit tired of me, you know, and so he said, you are not going out on or at least he didn't say, but his subordinates told me that he had said that I was not going to go out on any more working parties and that I was gonna spend the rest of the war in the Stade, you see, which would have been very difficult for me, because it was very difficult if you were in an inside compound to get to the surrounding compounds and out through the barbed wire and so on. Very difficult indeed. I don't think anyone ever did it.
But I managed to change identities with another prisoner, and he became Doug Collins because he wasn't going to escape anyway, he knew that, and there was no risk involved as far as he was concerned. It just meant that he had to stay in this compound, you know, at least until they forgot about him. And so I took his identity and went out onto the working party, and it was, I say, another stalag, a sub stalag, but it was somewhat easier to get away from. And also, in the sub stalags, you could get things like files and bits of rope and all sorts of things that were useful, because it was impossible for the German guards to control every movement of prisoners, you know.
Speaker 0: Did you get paid for any work that you were doing in the mines, you were saying, for instance?
Speaker 1: We got some sort of scrip, a few marks of special camp money, and you could spend this in the canteens, certainly in the main stalag. You could buy, I think it was Junek cigarettes. Never smoked myself, so you could buy these things. I think they were pretty horrible. But anyway, for those who smoked, a smoke was a smoke.
And you could buy that. You couldn't really buy any food or anything. Could buy toothpaste and that sort of thing, but that was it.
Speaker 0: Did you have winter clothing, raincoats, anything for
Speaker 1: your Nothing. No. Didn't the local people when you were walking? Well, I should point out that we did manage in the main staircase to get into touch with a Pole who was a tailor, and he I don't know whether it was he or somebody else. No, I think it was the British sergeant major that gave me.
I got a swastika. You know what the brown shirts I wore? It wasn't on the left arm, wasn't it? On the left arm. And I had a brown shirt and something that looked like a brown shirt's trousers and boots.
And these I took with me. We were always searched, of course, going out of the main stall again into the working compounds. But I managed to conceal the swastika next to my skin, and the rest of the stuff didn't look anything but ordinary prisoners' clothing, really. But the swastika was very useful, and the brown shirt, for going through villages when we couldn't go round them. And my companion would follow, say, couple of hundred yards behind, and I would go in front, doing my best to look like a brown shirt.
And we traveled mostly at dusk anyway through villages when it was necessary to do so, and I would hire Hitler and all the rest of it, and nobody took any notice of me.
Speaker 0: How come you speak German so well?
Speaker 1: Well, I learned it at school, elementary German anyway, and of course I didn't speak German as well when I was a prisoner in Germany as I subsequently did. But you must remember that when I got to Hungary, I was interned there, and I made the acquaintance of a Polish prisoner who had been a professor in Poland. And he spoke absolutely perfect German, which a lot of Poles do, as you probably know, And I took lessons from him, and then I spoke German really all the way through Europe, because after I got out of Hungary, I had escaped from there. I got across Yugoslavia into Romania. And really, as you probably know, Ernst, German is, in that part of Europe, a kind of lingua flanker.
It is the the common language of a lot of people. Hungarians often speak German. Some Yugoslavs do. German is spoken quite a bit in Czechoslovakia even, and in Poland. Was the way I really got to know the language a lot better.
Then after the war, I was an intelligence officer in Germany, and I used German all day. And so eventually I really began almost to think in German. But, you know, that's a long time ago, and my German is now not bad, but it's a bit rusty. I sometimes have to stop and think of the word, you know, so I wouldn't be able to pass myself off as a brown shirt now.
Speaker 0: No. Yeah. Maybe the arthritic arm would be probably Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
That is a fascinating story. You escaped finally, were flown out.
Speaker 1: Well, Well, you see, Romania came out of the war. That was in August 1944. And I was with the Americans in I mean, I kept on changing company all the way through. I was with the Americans in in in Romania because there had been very spectacular sort of charge of the light brigade, low level attack on the Ploesti oil fields in Romania. And I must say, the Americans who did that had some guts because they went in at about 200 feet in heavy bombers.
The Germans knew they were coming and just shot them out of the air like ducks, you know. There were about 90 odd survivors. Some guys were just one survivor out of the whole crew of 10, you know. These chaps were sent to a place called Timisul, which is in the Transylvanian Alps, And we, that is my companion and I, the same guy who got out of Germany with me, were in the secret police headquarters originally in Bucharest, and we got out of there and got to River Danube where it forms the border well, I mean, it's all crazy, isn't it? Where it forms the border between Romania and Bulgaria.
Our aim was to get to Turkey, and we were within about 150 miles of Turkey, and we were caught crossing the Danube. The Romanians caught us there.
Speaker 0: But how were you crossing the Danube?
Speaker 1: By boat.
Speaker 0: Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: Swag boat? No, we were actually not in the boat. We had detected that there was a boat at this spot. It was all brush covered and everything, you know, area, sort of wild area. And we were seen by a border guard, but he didn't let on that he'd seen us, and we waited there thinking that when dusk came we would get across Bodanio in this rowing boat, actually.
And of course he went off and got about 20 troops, and they came and the rest of us, and we went back to the secret police headquarters. Actually, the Romanians were not bad, because they didn't beat us up. They beat up the guards that let us get out. I understand that the guards who should have been watching when we got through the window, because we had a little file which we had secreted in our boots, you know. And we got out onto the main street of Bucharest, and I believe we were the only ones ever to escape from the secret police headquarters in Bucharest.
And we were on the radio. You know, mean, there was, like, there was a warning out on the Bucharest radio to watch out for these two dangerous characters, you Did
Speaker 0: you speak any of the Slavic languages?
Speaker 1: No. No. Was the language, and we but somehow, you know, it's it's not impossible to communicate with people even if you don't know it, because there are always some key words that people know. Romania came out of the war, and King Carol, you know, took the country out of the war, And Antonescu, the iron guard dictator of of Romania, was deposed, and the Americans actually got us out. I mean, they flew in, you see, to get their people out.
And and there I was flying in high style in a flying fortress right across Yugoslavia, you know, remaining Yugoslavia Adriatic Sea into Italy. And it was quite interesting in its way because I wasn't our plane wasn't attacked, but German fighters came up to attack the group. And there was an air battle going on, like, about 20 miles behind us or something. And I thought to myself, Jesus Christ, if I were to use that expression, you know, wouldn't it be great to be shot down now? I was actually crapping myself.
Right. To be shot down after all that, but still we weren't, and I don't think anything, anybody was shot down. The Flying Fortresses were pretty formidable airplanes, you know, and they had good defenses. We landed at Bari in Italy, and from there we went back to England. And when I got back to England, you know, I was gung ho in those days and said, want to get back, you know, while the fighting's still on, and so I got back.
Speaker 0: You came back to Germany at the very end of the war and were in Belsen for a few for a day
Speaker 1: or or Yes. Not as a prisoner. No. I understand. But I was with the forces that liberated Belsen, and I was in Belsen as an interpreter and documents researcher and so on and so forth for about a day.
And, you know, it was a very sad scene there, as I explained in court. And, of course, Ernst Kremer, the commandant of Belsen, was a prisoner then, and so was Irma Grazer, who was the woman in charge of the chief woman guard or female guard there. And both of those were hanged, as you remember. I wonder sometimes now whether Kramer was quite the beast that he was portrayed as being, because there is no doubt that the conditions in the camp were absolutely awful, and he may not have had the control over those conditions that he would have had if there hadn't been such chaos. It's a possibility anyway.
Speaker 0: Did you see much destruction approaching when you went to the West?
Speaker 1: There was some. Well, of course, all the way through Germany. There was a lot of destruction. We crossed the Rhine and up through into the Hanover region and so on and so forth. And the smaller towns were not so badly damaged, but all the large towns were laid waste, you Did that
Speaker 0: seeing this terrible destruction on some of Europe's great cities I know that you were very young, and you had had this incarceration and undoubtedly whether to kindly dispose towards the Germans. Did that did that make you feel that the German people at least had paid some some kind of price for
Speaker 1: Yes, I think it did. Yes, I think it did. But I must be quite honest about it, since you've asked the question, and say that in those days I wasn't very reflective about it all. You know, I mean, was young, as you say. And I thought, well, serves them right.
I mean, that was my honest reaction to it. But of course, I can't say that I was particularly happy to see a country not a country, but a city like Hamburg. I mean, I don't know whether you ever saw it in those days because you Only in pictures. Only in pictures. Well, Hamburg, except for a few suburbs and, strangely enough, a little bit right around the centre of Hamburg, like miles of rubble, and it was very depressing.
I mean, was incredible, because you know there was a firestorm in Hamburg in 1943 that was bombed for about three days and nights straight, and it was a dreadful scene of destruction.
Speaker 0: Did you have a chance to compare the destruction to these German cities with English cities when you were?
Speaker 1: Well, yes, to some extent. I haven't seen Coventry and never did, in fact, see Coventry in its destroyed state. But I was in London, incidentally, soon after I got back, when the V1s and V2s were coming down. I was in a newspaper man's house, as a matter of fact, or it was a high rise, you know, in an apartment. And a v two, which were the v two, as you know, was the was the rocket.
Speaker 0: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And a v two came down about half a mile away and actually sorry. Blew blew in all the windows and the the the drapes came in, you know. And I and I thought, my god, you know, that's not too big a mess. And after all my experiences, to be nabbed in London by a v two wouldn't be too good. So I got out of there as fast as I could.
Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. This may be an unfair question. Don't answer it if you don't like to answer it. You fought for values which you believed in in the Second World War.
Mhmm. And you obviously put out a damn good fight. And now you have lived in Qatar for most of your adult life Yes.
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. From from Ninety fifty two. Yeah.
Speaker 0: Do do you feel a little betrayed by what has happened to this society? Know? In Canada? Yeah. By politicians giving away really what you men thought you were protecting for with your own bodies.
Many of your comrades died in the defense of the values, and here we are.
Speaker 1: Yes. I I do I do. Well, let me say this. I'm I'm vastly disappointed in the Canada today. I think that that many of the values that existed even fifteen or twenty years ago no longer exist or or are on the way out.
I don't, for example, see much purpose to our immigration policies today. I think that that despite all the cries of racism directed against people like myself who do oppose the immigration policies, Canada was a happier place when it was the old style traditional immigration, immigration from Europe and The United States and so on and so forth. And I see no purpose in the multicultural policies. We are slipping into a kind of society where you have to have special classes in schools, which cost a lot of money for people who use English as a second language. And that applies, of course, particularly to orientals and Asiatics and so on and so forth, because they don't find it as easy as, say, Germans coming to Canada to pick up English.
And and why are we doing this? Because the people of I wouldn't really have an objection if the policy had been put fairly to the people of Canada, and they've been asked, look, do you want this kind of immigration? But it was changed without anyone consulting them. In 1967, Universal immigration was was introduced, and concomitant concomitant with all this, we have human rights commissions and so on, affirmative action. I mean, what is happening is that a whole new ballgame has been organized without the people being consulted.
Sure. They can vote against the politicians at election time, but if all three parties are so eager for the immigrant vote that they agree that, yes, you know, we must have this kind of immigration, then what's the man in the street to do? Every poll that has been taken since the war, and I've studied this at great length and in some detail, has demonstrated without any doubt that Canadians do not want this kind of immigration, yet they're powerless to do anything about it. So in that sense, democracy is useless for them.
Speaker 0: Do you have an answer what could be done?
Speaker 1: Well, I sure I have an answer as to what what could be done. I would return to the immigration policies that we had before 1967. There was no universal immigration. The emphasis was on European and Australian, what you call the white Commonwealth immigration or white common commonwealth as such. I would not exclude Asiatics and others from coming in, but I would not let in any more than a certain proportion.
It averaged about something like between 510% in those in those other years, and I certainly would not open immigration offices all over the world to add to the problems that this country has. You know, I think that that well, I don't really think that politicians give a damn. You know, they're just interested in whether they can get a vote from this ethnic association and the other one, and the squeakiest wheel is always the one that gets the grease, as you know. But I I I think that that there isn't any question that that people would return to the status quo anti if they could, as far as immigration is concerned. I would let in a certain number, as I say, of these people, but I would not let become predominant.
You know, most people don't realize, or maybe they do. I don't know. But it seems to me that they don't. We're now in a situation where most of the immigrants are from the third world. Yeah.
And I'm not suggesting that I am superior to them. I don't think they're superior to me either. You know, everyone pays his money and takes his chance. But I don't see any purpose in creating a situation which has shown itself all over the world to be impractical. And so, you know, it it makes no sense at all to me.
And I think that we are going to be faced and are faced to a great extent already with the problems that these other countries have had.
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Reminds me of Alexander McClelland, who also escaped multiple times.
@Wordsarewordsz - Words Are Words
What’s up with all of these people escaping from the Germans? It’s almost as if they’re not running good “death camps”…..