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OK- Day 2 of Carroll v. Trump 2d trial. Trump has entered the courtroom, seated in red tie at defense table with Alina Habba. Carroll will be the witness. Inner City Press will live tweet as it did 1st trial (incl in this book https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4WZG4D3) thread below
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All rise! Judge Kaplan: The delay this morning was caused by a transportation problem. Before the jury comes in, I have the following questions of law after yesterday's defense opening. Is mitigation of damages an affirmative defense? Is it waived?
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Judge Kaplan: Is the defense even applicable to a defamation case? If so, which side has the burden of proof, and what must be proved to satisfy that burden. There is a NY Court of Appeals case, it is 226 NY1, Sun Printing - and App Div in Caine, find it
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Habba: I would like to address what your Honor is recommending in writing overnight - you're proposing an instruction, right? Judge Kaplan: I want briefs on Friday before 4pm. Habba: My client & I wish to point out Ms. Carroll can sit in front of jurors every day
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Habba: But my client has to choose between attending his mother in law's funeral -- Judge Kaplan: I have ruled. Sit down. Habba: I don't like to be spoken to that why. Please refrain. I am asking for an adjournment for a funeral. Judge Kaplan: Denied. Sit down.
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Judge Kaplan: Bring in the jury. Robbie Kaplan (RK): Plaintiff calls E. Jean Carroll. RK: Where do you live? Carroll: In upstate NY in the mountains, in a small cabin. RK: Why are you here? Carroll: Donald Trump abused then defamed me and shattered my reputation
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RK: Has Mr. Trump continued to lie about you? Carroll: He lied Sunday, and yesterday. Habba: Objection - non responsive, and not at issue here. Judge Kaplan: Certainly relevant to damages. Overruled.
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RK: How was your reputation shattered? Carroll: Yesterday on Twitter I saw, Hey lady, you're a fraud. Previously I was a columnist. Now I'm known as a wack job. People don't write to an advice columnist that's being attacked like this.
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RK: In the first case, what were your claims? Carroll: Assault and defamation. RK: When was the assault? Carroll: 1996. RK: How long did the trial last? Carroll: 2 weeks. RK: Who cross examined you? Carroll: Joe Tacopina Habba: Objection
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Judge Kaplan: Substained. RK: Where did you grow up? Carroll: Indiana. My mother was a volunteer for the Republican Party Habba: Objection, relevance. Judge Kaplan: Background. Habba: You ruled no politics
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Judge Kaplan: Fair enough. RK: How did your parents raise you? Carroll: Small school house. They had 2 rules: smile and look on the bright side. I wanted to be a writer. RK: Where'd you go to college? Carroll: Indiana University. I was a cheerleader.
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Carroll: I was nominated for a beauty pageant. Another Trump lawyer: Objection Judge Kaplan: Who said that? This is not tag team. RK: How did you become a writer? Carroll: After 20 years of negativity, I got my first piece accepted at age 46. I taught gym in Idaho
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Carroll: I was found in the slush pile at Esquire. Then other doors opened. I wrote for Rolling Stone, New York RK: Did you move to New York City? Carroll: In 1980 or 1981. I said, I love it here. And I stayed.
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RK: How'd you become an advice columnist? Carroll: Elle gave me a column in 1993. People ask questions, my answers were published. Ask E Jean. RK: What is this photo? Carroll: This is me [in a loosely tied tie] Dec 1995
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RK: What kind of questions did you get? Carroll: The comedy and drama of life. Mostly, How do I get my husband to take my showers? And, How do I get my wife to let me get back in bed and off the couch. I had 80% women, 20% men. I broke with the past
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Carroll: I was all about taking action. Lead an adventurous life. It was light hearted - but deeply serious. I had a TV show too. RK: When: Carroll: 1994 to 1996, then the channel I was on became MSNBC. My channel was started by Roger Ailes.
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RK: Did you appear on other TV shows? Carroll: Yes, GMA, The Bill Maher Show, Anderson Cooper, the shows that were on every day. I could be slotted in for four minutes RK: How often were you on TV? Carroll: Often Habba: Objection - too broad
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RK: Most recently? Carroll: Today Show, weekly, 2015 to 2016. RK: Have you written books? Carroll: Five. A bio of Hunter Thompson. A book of essays. A memoir. RK: This is "Female DIfficulties." Forgive me, but it looks a little dated. Carroll: It's from 1983
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RK: Put up the Hunter S. Thompson biography. Carroll: He's the astonish journalist. I wrote it between 1991 and 1992, it was published in 1993. It was extremely well reviewed. The reviewers were all journalists and they all loved Hunter.
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RK: And this book? Carroll: It's about what women think -- Habba: Objection, vague. What women think -- Judge Kaplan: Ms. Habba, when you speak in this courtroom or any other courtroom you'll stand up
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Carroll: Women were very blunt, in Alabama and Arkansas & Ohio - they were thrilled to talk to a journalist. RK: When did you start writing it? Carroll: 2017. It was published in 2019. RK: Was Donald Trump initially on your list? Carroll: No. But I was overwhelmed
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RK: What did you say about Mr. Trump in that book? Carroll: That we met outside of Bergdorf's... He asked me to help buy a gift. We went to the lingerie department Judge Kaplan: Ms. Habba? Habba: Objection. Already determined.
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RK: How many pages about about Mr. Trump? Carroll: Nine. Ms. Kaplan, may I have my glasses? They're in my purse. Good luck finding them in that bag Habba: I object. This goes to the underlying facts. RK: We can redact it further. They've had this a long time
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Judge Kaplan: I'm advised that the version on the screen is not redacted. RK: This is what Mr. Trump reacted to. Judge Kaplan: Ms. Habba, what about that? Habba: The president denied an allegation on the White House lawn from a reporter.
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Habba: We can't ask her about the other men, that she claimed assaulted her. Judge Kaplan: I don't get what you said but I'm going to sustain it anyway. Habba: Move to strike. Judge Kaplan: To strike what? Madaio: Ms. Kaplan read it. Judge Kaplan: Mr. Madaio...
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RK: What an excerpt published? Carroll: June 21, 2019 in New York Magazine. RK: What time of day? Carroll: The NYT was going to publish an article about the book, that caused NY Magazine to rush it out on Friday, in the afternoon. They jumped the gun
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RK: Did the excerpt include the assault by Donald Trump? Carroll: yes. RK: Yesterday Ms. Habba talked about a five hour interval. Did the except include a denial? Carroll: Yes, a denial from the White House Habba: She is waiving the ability for me to cross examine
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RK: Had you told anyone publicly the story about Mr. Trump? Carroll: No. RK: Did it factor in, that he was President? Carroll: Yes. I went ahead and did it. RK: Did you expect him to respond? Carroll: I thought he'd say it was consensual.
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RK: Is that what he did? Carroll: No. He said my false accusation damaged the real victims of sexual assault, that is a lie Habba: Objection Judge Kaplan: On what ground? In one word Habba: She is not a lawyer Judge Kaplan: Overruled
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RK: Have you paid dearly? Carroll: Just about as dearly as it is possible to pay. RK: What is this document? Carroll: An announcement by the Office of the Press Secretary. RK: Move to admit. Judge Kaplan: Received.
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Carroll: He said that numerous women had been paid to make false accusations about him and that these women did very well -- Habba: Objection Judge Kaplan: Overruled. Carroll: It was untrue. I was not paid.
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RK: What about paying dearly? Carroll: He said people like me should tread carefully - Habba: Objection Judge Kaplan: Overruled. RK: What is the context of these statements by Mr. Trump? Carroll: He's on his way to the helicopter, questions from journalists
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RK: What's this from The Hill? Carroll: It's partially about me. Habba: Objection. It's not part of this case. Judge Kaplan: Overruled...Jurors, this statement is not part of the application for damages. RK: What's new here? Carroll: It said, I'm not his type
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Carroll: He said, I'm not his type. Meaning, I'm too ugly- Habba: Objection - speculation. Judge Kaplan: Overruled. You can cross examine. Carroll: The president called me a liar 26 times. It ended the world I had been living in. I'm in a new world.
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RK: What next? Carroll: I was attacked. On Twitter. On Facebook. It was a new world. RK: What is this? Carroll: A Facebook chat, directed to me. RK: Do you know the author? Carroll: No. It was June 21, 2019, at 6:09 pm RK: What is UCT? Carroll: Universal time code
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RK: What is this? Carroll: A message on Facebook. The Monday, June 24, 2019. RK: What does this person say? Carroll: He talked about how ashamed I should be, I made it harder for the true victims of abuse. RK: Did Donald Trump say that? Carroll: Yes.
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RK: How often do you receive such messages? Carroll: Sometimes 100s a day. RK: What are the themes? Carroll: That, You are a liar... You hurt victims... You are ugly. Those are first three. RK: And your motivations? Habba: Objection. We were ordered not to discuss
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Judge Kaplan: Sidebar [Whispered sidebar ensues, then they're back] RK: Let's start with messages calling you a liar. Carroll: This is a Facebook chat. She says, She was not going to ask me for advice.
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RK: This asks how much George Soros paid you. Who is he? Carroll: A rich old man. RK: Did you pay you? Carroll: No. RK: Do you know anyone at the DNC? Carroll: No. Habba: I will be addressing this on cross Judge Kaplan: We'll see. I don't need announcements
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Judge Kaplan: I make the rulings here. Habba: I was just -- Judge Kaplan: Sit down. RK: How many requests for advice did you get per month? Carroll: Two hundred a month. Now only eight.
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RK: Is this is good time for a morning break? Judge Kaplan: Yes. 15 minutes. [Thread will continue - during the above, in Menendez criminal case, Judge Stein has set a deadline for response to Inner City Press and NYT bids to unseal Thread will continue below
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With jury out Carroll's Shawn Crowley: Ms. Habba has twice now mentioned other men - now she's brought up that Ms. Carroll received funding for this case. That was improper. And Mr. Trump has been loudly saying, She got her memory back
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Judge Kaplan: Ms. Habba? Habba: They asked her if she had funding, she said no. We know that she had funding. Judge Kaplan: What about Mr. Trump being vocal in the presence of the jury?
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Carroll's Shawn Crowley: We asked about funding from George Soros, not for this lawsuit Habba: It's Reid Hoffman Judge Kaplan: I'll consider what you said. [Leaves bench. The "Trump vocalization" issue not addressed. Yet? Thread will continue.
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They're back. Judge Kaplan: Before the jury comes in, I'm just going to ask that Mr. Trump take special care to lower his voice when conferring with counsel so that the jury doesn't overhear it. Jury entering! [Now Trump whispering directly into Habba's ear]
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RK: Ms. Carroll, what is this? Carroll: My tweet before Mr. Trump's statement. My tweet was about taking a road trip. And this reply hits all the high spot - saying I'm psychologically messed up. And that's ugly and should avoid a mirror. I know I'm old but
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
RK: Did any of the messages you received accuse you of being promiscuous? Carroll: Yes. This email was sent to me, and my publisher and my agent. It made me feel horrible. RK: Did you receive some even more upsetting? Carroll: They threatened to kill me
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RK: How many threatened violence? Carroll: Hundreds. RK: What was the first time? Carroll: Around 11:30 that night, I was in a cheap hotel on 10th Avenue. The room was small, there was no desk, just a board you flapped down - I went to Twitter for breaking news
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Carroll: On Twitter I saw, You lying scumbag - so I went to my Ask E Jean website, looking for support - there was a lovely email saying You Go Girl but the next one, I thought I was going to get shot. I couldn't get the curtain closed
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Carroll: There was a message with a photo of a woman who had obviously been murdered, there was blood on her neck- Habba: Objection, inflammatory Judge Kaplan: Sustained. Carroll: I hit delete, delete. I couldn't help myself. I went back to Twitter
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RK: Did you sleep a lot that night? Carroll: No, because of the window. I didn't sleep until six or seven in the morning. RK: What is this? Carroll: A Facebook message to me... "Dishonest treasonous lemmings," it describes how I should die.
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RK: Prior to June 2019 had any reader ever accused you of being a pedophile, or a Satan worshipping Nazi? Carroll: No. RK: What's this? Carroll: A Facebook message, a day after last year's trial. They want me murdered, they say
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[On the screen for jurors: a message incl "no lube"] Carroll: I'm sorry that people in this courtroom have to see these images (sobs) RK: Some of these were posted on public media sites- but the threats of violence were sent to you privately, right? Carroll: Yes
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RK: Why didn't you delete your social media accounts? Carroll: My favorite journalists are on social media - to not be on it, as a writer, would be oblivion.
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RK: Did you ever come to regret coming forward about Mr. Trump in light of these messages? Carroll: Only momentarily. I'm glad I took action. RK: What steps have you taken to protect yourself? Carroll: I let my pitbull off his leash. I put in an electronic fence
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Carroll: I bought bullets for the gun I inherited from my father. I keep it by my bed RK: And driving? Carroll: I pay attention to who's behind me. When I run errands, I look to see who is around. At the grocery I had a filled cart and I see a man in a brown shirt
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Carroll: Back at my home, I realized I left my groceries back at the store. RK: Do you have personal security with you at this trial? Carroll: Yes. RK: Would you like more? Carroll: I can't afford it.
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RK: Do you tell your friends about the threats? Carroll: No. What can they do? I stay cheery. RK: Who is Lisa Birnbach? Carroll: My friend of more than 30 years. RK: What did you told, the night in the small hotel room? Carroll: That I was Fine as wine
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RK: What's this? Carroll: My texts with Carol Martin and her daughter. RK: Who is Carol Martin? Carroll: The breakthrough Black newswoman. RK: You told her there were no security concerns - was that true? Carroll: I didn't want them to worry
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RK: Did you promote your book - switching gears, sorry Carroll: I did 4 TV interviews. & 4 or 5 podcasts RK: What did you talk about? Carroll: The journalists wanted to hear about President Trump. I saw that the book was not selling - so I tried to talk about it
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RK: Were you buoyant, as it said in this interview with Keziah Weir? Carroll: That's the public E. Jean https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2019/06/how-has-e-jean-carrolls-life-been-since-accusing-donald-trump
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RK: What was this talking tour? Carroll: There are many tours in New York, Edgar Allan Poe Judge Kaplan: What about this tour? Carroll: It was in front of Trump Tower [book(let) cover https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4WZG4D3
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RK: When did you decide to sue? Carroll: I was at a party with George Conway. He took me aside. He had an iPad. He explained the difference between a criminal case and a civil case. He took me through the steps. He said he could suggest an attorney
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Carroll: A day later he sent me a recommendation. RK: For whom? Carroll: For yourself, Robbie Kaplan. RK: What is this? Carroll: A photo of us waiting to go up to your office to listen to our argument at the 2d Circuit Court of Appeals
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RK: What is this? Carroll: My personal website. RK: You're posting an article about your case - why? Carroll: Donald Trump keeps lying about me. I want people to know what is happening. RK: What's this? Carroll: Me on Rachel Maddow
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RK: During the first trial was there a hullaballoo getting in and out of the courthouse? Carroll: Yes [And yesterday: video
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TRUMP IN COURT: In 2d Trial with E. Jean Carroll, Trump Lawyer Habba Says Carroll Wanted Fame and She Got It, Sometimes the Internet is Mean - Inner City Press story: https://www.innercitypress.com/sdny4trumpcarrollicp011624.html More detail on @SubstackInc here https://matthewrussellleeicp.substack.com/p/courtroom-chronicle-in-2d-trial-with
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RK: It was said yesterday that you paid for a documentary- Habba: Objection. Judge Kaplan: On what ground? Habba: That's not what I said. It misrepresents. RK: Did you ever pay to have a documentary made? Carroll: No.
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RK: What is this? Carroll: Something Donald Trump put on Truth Social. By then I thought I was rebuilding, I had started a new Substack -
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Judge Kaplan: What did you do? Carroll: This was a statement I made about the last trial. Habba: Objection - it's the last trial Judge Kaplan: There are no damages being sought for this. But you may answer. Carroll: This statement by the president called me a hoax
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Carroll: I thought I'd get my reputation back after winning the first trial. But Donald Trump went on TV- Habba: Objection. This is not part of this case Judge Kaplan: No speeches, just one word. Overruled. RK: We got interrupted mid-answer. Carroll: He lied again
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Carroll: Right after the trial he went on CNN Town Hall and lied again. RW: What is this? Carroll: A Truth Social about me. A video posted by Donald Trump. Habba: We will be- Judge Kaplan: No announcements. Habba: Objection, the whole video should be played
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Judge Kaplan: No one's proposed anything else. Sit down. This is the transcript. RK: What was this posted on Truth Social? Carroll: The day after the trial. RK: Let's play it. [Trump: I have no idea who this woman is... the greatest witchhunt of all time]
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RW: Who's the woman Mr. Trump is referring to? Carroll: Me. And Donald Trump was raising money -- Habba: Objection. That is complete speculation Judge Kaplan: The answer is stricken.
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RW: Let's turn to the Town Hall - Judge Kaplan: Who much more? RW: 20 minutes. Judge Kaplan: We'll break here. 1:45. Jury leaves. Shawn Crowley: The defendant has been making statements we can hear. He said, It really is a con job, it is a witch hunt. Remind him
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Judge Kaplan: Mr. Trump has the right to be present here. That right can be forfeited if he is disruptive, which has been reported to me, and if he disregards court orders.
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Judge Kaplan: Mr. Trump, I hope I don't have to exclude you from the trial. I understand you are eager for me to do that. Control yourself. [Judge Kaplan leaves the bench] Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4WZG4D3 Thread will continue
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They're back. Judge Kaplan: I understand there is an application. Trump's lawyer Madaio: We move for recusal. Shawn Crowley is a former law clerk, you accepted her representation... There is an atmosphere of hostility. Judge Kaplan: Denied.
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[Note for X subscribers on SDNY conflicts / disclosure https://t.co/youlrrezJJ Now: Jury entering! Roberta Kaplan: In these four years, there have been times you've felt OK? Carroll: Oh yes. Buoyant. RK: Now let's get to the CNN Town Hall.
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RK: And this disk, did you sign it? Carroll: Yes, ECJ. I followed along - the transcript is accurate. Madaio: Objection, Your Honor. Judge Kaplan: One lawyer per witness and you're not it. Habba: What rule is that? Judge Kaplan: My order this morning. You heard it
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Judge Kaplan: OK you're had the conference and the moment is over. I can't hear you. RK: We'll come back to this, I don't want to waste the time of the jury. [Video played, Hawkeye State: Trump says, "Bergdorf Goodman? It's all made up!"]
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RK: What happened after Mr. Trump made those statements? Carroll: There was a flurry of attacks. RK: Have you gotten used to it? Carroll: I will never get used to attacks like that.
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RK: People congratulated you, & positive media articles- doesn't that repair your reputation Carroll: No. RK: Are you better known now? Carroll: By people who think I'm a liar- Habba: Objection, she's speaking about what other people think Judge Kaplan: Overruled
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RK: When did you stop your Elle column? Carroll: The end of 2019. RK: Do you still publish a column? Carroll: Yes, on Substack. RK: Pardon my ignorance, what is Substack? Carroll: People can pay to read. I have 21,000 - 1800 of them are paid
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RW: Have your Twitter followers increased since 2019? Carroll: Yes. RW: Do you make any money from your followers on Twitter? Carroll: No. RW: Can you still freelance? Carroll: The assignments are all about Donald Trump, nothing else.
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RW: How much do you earn? Carroll: About -- Habba: Objection, specify the year. Judge Kaplan: That's a subject for cross examination. RW: How much did you use to make, versus 2023? Carroll: $50,000 versus in 2023, 500 thousand, I mean, 500 dollars
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RW: Did you post on Twitter? Carroll: Yes. Dog videos and a Christmas message wishing people care and love. RW: Did you receive replies? Scroll through them, people will get a sense ["Shut up you chattering skeleton"]
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RW: Let's show this-- Habba: Objection Judge Kaplan: Ground? Habba: It's prejudicial. Judge Kaplan: All evidence is prejudicial against the party it is offered against
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RW: Who is this from? Carroll: Someone called Nebraska Cornhusker, he writes I am a trashy whore and Trump will get back at me Habba: Objection Judge Kaplan: Overruled. RW: Did he post about you yesterday? Carroll: So I've been told. On Truth Social
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Carroll: This was posted as we were in the courtroom yesterday. "I had no idea who this woman was. PURE FICTION." Roberta Kaplan: No further questions. Judge Kaplan: Cross examination? Habba: Give me a moment, please.
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Habba: Ms. Carroll, you used to live in Montana? Carroll: Yes. Habba: Fair to say it was boring to you? Carroll: Montana is never boring. Habba: You were deposed twice by me - let's look. Do you recall saying you and your first husband, the spark was gone - sorry
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Habba: You said, I came to New York to interview Fran Lebowitz- Judge Kaplan: Can I get the transcript? Roberta Kaplan: Your Honor, I don't see the difference Habba: May I proceed? Judge Kaplan: No. She just said something. And you haven't provided the transcript
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Judge Kaplan: Ms. Habba, we're going to do it my way in this courtroom and that's how it's going to be. You tell me the line number and I read it. Then we go from there. Habba: I was reading -- Judge Kaplan: We are going to take a recess. You will provide me with
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Judge Kaplan: Do not read it out loud. What line numbers? Habba: Page 14, 6 through 8. Judge Kaplan: What are you doing, offering into evidence? Habba: I'm offering it as impeachment Judge Kaplan: Those are 2 different things
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Habba: She said too different things about Montana Judge Kaplan: She said it's great and before she said, it's not boring - that's your difference? Habba: I can ask another question. Judge Kaplan: That would be a good idea.
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Habba: You were a regular at Elaine's, right? Carroll: Yes. Habba: It's hard to get into, isn't it? Carroll: No, not hard. Judge Kaplan: It doesn't exist anymore. That's why it's hard to get into
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Habba: Why was it hard to get seated in the front? Carroll: Elaine choose Habba: You were a regular & saw Mario Puzo? Carroll: I saw Woody Allen... Habba: You were in the first row? Carroll: 4th table down from the front. Habba: You were with Esquire? Carroll: yes
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Habba: In 1979 you were making $4000 a piece? Judge Kaplan: A piece of what? Habba: Per article... Didn't you say in 1979 you made $29,000? Carroll: That's about right. Habba: It would be bigger to be on the cover? Carroll: I'd rather be on the inside with a story
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Habba: How about a cover story? Carroll: I consider writing-- Carroll's lawyer: Can we have a sidebar? Judge Kaplan: OK. [Whispered sidebar ensues]
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They've back. Habba: When you were on the cover of New York Magazine, how much was the dress you were wearing? Carroll's lawyer: Objection! Judge Kaplan: Sustained. Habba: What's the most you've made annually? Carroll: $400,000
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Habba: That's a lot in today's dollars, right? Carroll's lawyer: Objection. Judge Kaplan: You're going to have to be more specific Habba: You agree $400,000 in 1995 is about double that today? Carroll: Maybe.
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OK - now at sentencing of CIA leaker Josh Schulte, convicted of giving Vault7 US malicious hacking tools to Wikileaks (& having CP). DOJ wants life sentence. Inner City Press cover the trials and will live tweet, thread below. Book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B6GRHV6J
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All rise! Judge Furman: We are here for sentencing. It has been a long road, but we are finally here. I have read the letters. [One by his youngest brother Reagan says "he can be arrogant, selfish, condescending and more" https://www.innercitypress.com/sdnylive120schultefurman011924.html
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Judge Furman: I'll defer judgment on sealing letters; the classified CIA filings will remain classified. Mr. Denton, have you notified victims? AUSA Denton: We have, your Honor. Judge: The Pre-Sentencing Report - did you review it Mr. Schulte? Schulte: Last week
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Judge: Let me address the defense objections to the factual recitations. I overrule them. Paragraph 39 references the situation that led to his remand while he was on bail - it states it was access to the Internet through the cousin. It's not material.
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Judge: The paragraphs concerning Mr. Schulte's use of the discovery laptop and the materials subsequently found on them, I find very relevant to sentencing. I adopt the factual recitations of the PSR, it will remain under seal.
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Judge Furman: The history is a six due to terrorism enhancement, for a guideline of life imprisonment. There is a disagreement about the application of the terrorism enhancement. I find that it applies.
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Judge Furman: I find that his conduct was designed to retaliate against the Government, that it was in employee employer relationship makes no difference. He leaked the entire arsenal of the US' cyber tools. That he differs from McVeigh and Osama doesn't matter
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Judge: He lied to the FBI, and in his counseled interviews with the US Attorney's Office. He used his sophisticated knowledge to commit his espionage offenses. He abuses his position in charge of the Atlassian suite - the enhancement applies
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Schulte's lawyer: I will be arguing for a substantial downward variance. Judge: I will hear from the Government, then Mr. Schulte's counsel and finally Mr. Schulte himself, should he choose to speak. Government? AUSA Denton: The Court knows this defendant
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AUSA Denton: Since he represented himself, the Court saw his behavior and who he is. You heard, We told you to stop but you did. He violated protective orders. It is no small thing for DOJ to ask for a life sentence. But he is unique. Esponionage...
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AUSA Denton: This was one of the most damaging instances of leaking in US history. The information was publicized, and so it cascaded. Then while incarcerated, he treated every limit as a challenge. That's what led to the information war
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AUSA Denton: He viewed the [CP] for years, and while incarcerated on espionage charges. There is a need for incapacitation. Judge: On incapacitation, I'm inclined to agree. He has extraordinary computer skills and has a history of leaking.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge: But at what point do those risks dissipate? At some point, his information is no longer ripe. In prison, his computer skills will atrophy. Do you catch my drift? AUSA Denton: It's variable. We want Special Administrative Measures to continue.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
AUSA Denton: Some of his info will persist - the identity of covert agents in the CIA. He tried to publish it in filings. It has happened. These information will remain sensitive as long as those operatives are alive.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge: Some have called the terrorism enhancement taking a wrecking ball to the [Sentencing] Guidelines. Can you address that? AUSA Denton: It reflects the seriousness of terrorism crimes. Congress decided this. & the history enhancement: he's hard to rehabilitate
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge: What about restitution? AUSA Denton: We'll calculate them in 90 days. Schulte's lawyer: What is the least necessary punishment here? This is a difficult case. Joshua Schulte has certainly been convicted of very serious crimes. Is he capable of redemption?
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Schulte's lawyer: Yes. The conditions of confinement have been so debilitating, he's unlikely to do this again. He still has hoped and dreams - the simple things in life. A face to face meeting with a loved one. A private conversation. The sun on his face
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Schulte's lawyer: Has he forfeited all this forever? We say No. We are not relitigating the SAMs [Special Administrative Measures]. His torturous conditions go beyond what he did. The Court told the MDC you have to consider humanity [Judge Furman's US v. Chavez]
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Schulte's lawyer: It has been torture: lock down 23 hours a day. His lights are on all the time. Nonstop white noise. [Inner City Press reported on this in Cholo Abdullah case: https://www.innercitypress.com/sdny88htorresabdullahicp121923.html
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Schulte's lawyer: We held up his Pre-Sentencing Report to the glass so he could read it. They skip his commissary. No entertainment. It's not part of the SAMs. He gets mail months late. A life sentence means he will never see his family.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge: You say without enhancement it would be 210 months. I calculate 310 months - if you subtract the points from groups, it's 324 to 405 months. Opine? Schulte's lawyer: You're asking me to do math on the spot... Even 405 months is not life imprisonment
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Schulte's lawyer: I was in a hearing in the other courthouse recently, Judge Hellerstein eliminated the movement across to criminal history 6 [Inner CIty Press is covering this case too: Venenzuela's Cliver, Fatico hearing next: https://www.innercitypress.com/sdny40ehellersteinvenezhonddrugsicp011824.html
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge: Mr. Denton, any math? AUSA Denton: We agree on the math. Judge: Forfeiture? Schulte's lawyer: We haven't had a change to speak about it. I only got it this afternoon. We oppose forfeiting any hard drive with his resume on it
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Schulte's lawyer: Some of the devices seized are not related to the offenses. Judge: I think I have to impose forfeiture along with the sentencing. AUSA Denton: You could amend it later under Rule 36, I believe Judge: That rules seems to allow amendment
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge: Mr. Schulte, if you'd like to speak before I sentence you, this is your chance. Joshua Schulte: I have 25 to 30 minutes if the Court allows it. [Silence] Judge Furman: Go ahead.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: I have been tortured worse than any other prisoner in the Western Hemisphere. I have no access to the library. Instead of 300 monthly phone minutes, I am given 30. I am restricted in mail. The FBI seizes much of it. I have no access to religious
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: The US Federal government tortures me with 24/7 white noise & solitary confinement. The window is blacked out. When I am offered access to law library, I have to urinate and defecate on the floor, I am left there for 9 hours. I was left with sewage
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: I have been locked in my torture cage with rodent excrement. Ice accumulates near the window. I wash my clothes in my toilet. I'm forced to eat with my bare hands like an animal. They look down on you like you are not human. We are shown off like a zoo
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: They'd say, "There is El Chapo... There is the guy who ran over those people on the West Side Highway" [Saipov - book: Terror in Tribeca / Sayfullo Saipov's Capital Trial in the SDNY https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BYB6FQ6H https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/terror-in-tribeca-murderers-mitigation-matthew-russell-lee/1143209100
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: This is NYC's very own Auschwitz... Dickens said solitary confinement eats the prisoner from the inside out. Only the SS could dream of this. Concentration camp is an apt name for my confinement. It's mental torture. Viktor Frankl, I relate to
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: Nelson Mandel wrote about solitary, he begged for its reversal. He wrote, Every hour seemed like a year. I relished conversation with a cockroach. I do that too, it doesn't even seem crazy after a while.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: As a result of my torture by this government, there are fewer blood vessels in my brain... History will side with me.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: I am suffering a 30 year trial penalty. I was denied discovery material, including forensic images. They say I stole from a third server - but did not give me access to it.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: DOJ seeks to tell all, Those who go to trial will be punished. District courts don't follow the 973 guidelines, worse than the CP guidelines. The 2d Circuit has expressed doubts, in dictum. Follow the other courts. Probation proposes 5 x the average
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: Wikileaks about released Confluence, which the CIA described in 302s as insignificant. We should access but were denied. The CIA has no idea what was taken. Protocol requires them to scrap everything and start over. That should not be relied on
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: It is disgusting to compare this case to Pearl Harbor... The truly difficult question for the Court today is, How do you quantify torture? How much credit would a man in Auschwitz receive? What about NYC's Auschwitz?
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: The BOP is a rogue agency that will never be reigned in until those tortured get time served - they BOP will leap to obey. Until then, they'll take pride in their concentration camps. BOP will torture me, they invite you to join them
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Josh Schulte: The BOP violates the Torah and all principles. I ask this Court to reject the espionage guidelines. I ask for time served. Judge: He spoke for 29 minutes... Any reason sentence should not be imposes at this time? AUSA Denton: No, your Honor.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: A substantial sentence is warranted. It is hard to overstate the seriousness of the espionage offences. The classified letter shows catastrophic impact on national security. $300 million was the tip of the iceberg. We'll never fully know the damage
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: It is not an exaggeration to call it a digital Pearl Harbor. He was not blowing the whistle, he was motivated by anger, spite and perceived grievance. He took it out on the country he swore to protect. Then there the CP counts- he had a massive trove
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: I'm blown away by Mr. Schulte's complete lack of remorse. He has never once acknowledged his conduct. The CP crimes are the most telling. The trial was a bloodbath. He had no defense. He expressed no remorse.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: He has demonstrated a desire to continue to inflict harm on his enemies. Nothing deters him. Each measure adds fuel to his fire. In the MCC, he tried to leak more information. He declared an Information War on the US
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: He made implied threats in post-trial submissions. There's the discovery laptop, he abused it. He created a 15 gigabyte separate hard drive and loaded on more CP. There is a need to protect the public.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: Mr. Schulte released it to the world - it is distinguished from the [Reality] Winner case. I'm not going, however, to impose a life sentence...
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: Obviously, I could impose a life sentence here, but I think there is a disconnect with the statutory provisions and the guidelines. Some variance is appropriate. I will vary, yes, on the conditions of confinement. He bought many on himself
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: I previously worked in the Attorney General's office, the decisions on SAMs [Special Administrative Measures] are not made lightly. Any comparison to Nazi concentration camps is to my mind offensive. Their only crime was being Jewish
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: You insinuated I didn't read all of your submission. I read every single one of them, including the ones you filed in Brooklyn. Having said that, the harsh conditions justify a variance from a life sentence. I've written recently - see US v. Chavez
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: The conditions in the SAMs unit are even harsher. I agree it is incumbent on us to treat prisoners humanely. He will be held a long time. I am not persuaded by other defense arguments - the neuro divergence, it is pure speculation
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: He is obviously talented, his computer skills are a testament to that. But starting in 2016 he stole information from the CIA - this continued until now. It took days if not weeks to leak to Wikileaks. His Google searches make it clear
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: The letter from Mr. Schulte's family are moving, particularly his mother's. I don't envy them - the letters don't acknowledge the CP, and when they call him a patriot they ignore what he did. There's a lot his family didn't know
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: Mr. Schulte please rise. You are remanded to the Bureau of Prison for 480 months
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: To be followed by a lifetime of supervised release with the search condition
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: You shall not view CP material including that created by AI
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Furman: His facility may already have been determined - if not, as close to Lubbock, Texas as possible. Mr. Schulte, you can appeal, you have 14 days. Schulte's counsel: We will be appealing. Judge Furman: We are adjourned. 1st story here: https://www.innercitypress.com/sentencing1schulteicp20124.html
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
OK- Day 2 of Carroll v. Trump 2d trial. Trump has entered the courtroom, seated in red tie at defense table with Alina Habba. Carroll will be the witness. Inner City Press will live tweet as it did 1st trial (incl in this book https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4WZG4D3) thread below
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
OK - Sam Bankman-Fried is in Judge Kaplan's courtroom, 8 minutes early, rubbing the outside of his nose. Inner City Press first asked to unseal his bond co-signers (done) and is covering the case https://www.innercitypress.com/sdnyunseal2sbfcosignersicp021523.html and will live tweet, thread below
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Now the prosecutors have walk in. One nodded to Bankman-Fried's lawyer; none acknowledged Bankman-Fried. Now, after a whispered discussion with the prosecutors, Bankman-Fried's lawyer comes and whispers into his ear.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
All rise! Judge Kaplan: Mr. Roos, are you going to do the honors of starting this afternoon? AUSA: Yes. With the discovery of the defendant's use of a VPN, we propose to broaden the conditions. The case involves a business that was reliant on the Internet
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
AUSA Roos: Defendant was using auto-delete on Signal, and de-emphasizing e-mail. There are still wallets out there. In this case, in at least 2 instance, funds have moved that belonged to the estate or debtor. In January, several Alameda wallets were accessed
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
AUSA: There was been witness tampering and obstruction of justice. Now there's use of a VPN. We have to move beyond the wackamole approach. We need a clear rule about defendant's use of devices and the Internet. Judge Kaplan: You're putting a lot of trust in him
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
AUSA Roos: We are mindful of defendant's First Amendment rights -- Judge Kaplan: Are you claiming there is a Constitutional right, once charged, to access the Internet? AUSA Roos: We are proposing restrictions. Judge Kaplan: There are pre-trial defendants detained
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Kaplan: Detained defendant still prepare their defense without the Internet. What is unique about this defendant? AUSA Roos: OK, what about access to discovery? Judge Kaplan: Let's get into that. Where is the database? AUSA: In the Cloud. It's read-only
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
[Note: Detained defendants see their discovery info on air-gapped laptops in the jail.] Judge Kaplan: You could show him the database on a device without the ability of communication. AUSA Roos: I haven't had that conversation. It would be a suitcase sized server
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
AUSA Roos: The FTX debtor is concerned about turning over a database like this -- Judge Kaplan: A duplicate could be created. Let's get on. AUSA Roos: We proposed pen registers and computer monitoring that Pre-Trial Services has, for laptops and cell phones
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Kaplan: Would it be fair to assume that the parents have devices? AUSA Roos: We are not sure -- Judge Kaplan: They are Stanford Law professors. AUSA Roos: There's no solution. Judge Kaplan: Oh but there is one...
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Kaplan: We have a person who alleged committed a Federal felony while on pre-trial release - witness tampering. AUSA Roos: We think that living with his parent keeps him from being unsupervised. Judge Kaplan: Anything else?
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
SBF's lawyer Cohen: Our client couldn't use Google Docs, or Microsoft Word or computational programs, could not Zoom with witnesses [Note: Avi Eisenberg, detained at demand of this same US Attorney's Office, can't do any of those things. No talk of First Amendment
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Kaplan: Your client is at liberty on extraordinary conditions, I mean not Draconian, but liberal conditions. Moreover, the onus is on you to establish to my satisfaction that any conditions I impose would be complied with, so the community would be protected
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
SBF's Cohen: Watching the Super Bowl wasn't an attempt to get around the Court's conditions -- Judge Kaplan: Let's talk about that. There is one person in this room who knew it violated: your client. Cohen: People in his generation... We are proposing conditions
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
SBF's lawyer Everdell: The order spoke of ephemeral or encrypted apps -- Judge Kaplan: I am aware. That's why I qualified it. Why was he watching the Super Bowl on a VPN when it's on free TV for everyone? He was making it appear he was outside of the US.
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
SBF's Cohen: Last time, your Honor, you had a great line about Mary Queen of Scots -- Judge Kaplan: What about the defense bearing the cost of a consultant to advise me on technology? Cohen: We will look right into it. Judge Kaplan: What about the other devices?
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Cohen: He is living with his parents so he can be watched. We can come back to the court on the issue of a consultant for the court. We can come back with a letter -- Judge Kaplan: The government too. Consultant by early next week, Tuesday, & I'll extend the order
@innercitypress - Inner City Press
Judge Kaplan: I'll extend the order and await your letters, end of next week. It's always a pleasure to deal with professionals on both sides. Adjourned. Story vlog - Worth Street scrum? - coming