In a series of posts, I discovered that the World Health Organization (WHO) had made certain face mask videos 'unlisted' on their YouTube channel. Despite this, I found the original videos embedded in articles. The videos remained consistent with the WHO's stance on face masks, even after the policy changed. I provided the links to the original videos and also shared my timeline video showing the shift in face mask recommendations throughout 2020.
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@c_plushie - Coronavirus Plushie
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Face mask videos that the World Health Organisation would rather you not see.
Back in Dec 2020, as I was making a video showing how we went from being told not to wear masks to being mandated to wear them, I wanted to use a couple of videos that the @WHO had at one time put out.
I remembered seeing both of these videos back in March 2020, but in Dec 2020, when I searched for the videos, I couldn't find the originals that the WHO had uploaded to their You Tube channel.
I was a little puzzled by this, as I knew I'd seen the videos before, so why could I no longer find them?
Anyway, I broadened my search beyond You Tube, and I searched the web as a whole. Eventually, after a lot of searching, I found a couple of articles in which each of these two videos had been embedded.
When I clicked on the videos in the articles, it took me through to the original videos, which were, just as I thought, originally uploaded to the WHO You Tube channel. And it was then that I realised why I couldn't find the videos when I'd searched for them.
It was because at some point after the WHO originally uploaded the videos, they'd decided to make the videos 'unlisted'.
For those who don't know, when you upload a video to You Tube, you're given three 'visibility' options for your video:
1. Public - meaning everyone can see the video, and you can find it when you search for it.
2. Private - meaning nobody can see it.
3. Unlisted - meaning only people with the link to the video can see it, and the video cannot be found when you search for it.
This is one of those two videos. It was uploaded to the WHO You Tube channel on 10 March 2020, but when there was a shift in global face mask policy, they made this video 'unlisted'.
I will also post the second video that I was looking for, and the links to the original videos in You Tube, so you can see for yourself that they were made 'unlisted'.
If you watch my timeline video (which I will also post in the thread), you will see that what the WHO says in both these videos remained the truth, and was always applicable, even after the policy on face masks changed.
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Video Transcript AI Summary
If you don't have respiratory symptoms like fever, cough, or runny nose, you don't need to wear a medical mask. Masks can give a false sense of protection and may even spread infection if not used correctly. Only healthcare workers, caretakers, and sick individuals with fever and cough should wear masks. Before wearing a mask, clean your hands. Check for tears or holes and identify the top and inside of the mask. Fit it on your face, covering your mouth and chin without any gaps. Avoid touching the front of the mask and clean your hands if you do. To remove the mask, take off the elastics without touching the front, discard it in a closed bin, and clean your hands. Don't reuse masks, replace them when damp. The best way to protect yourself is by frequently cleaning your hands with soap and water or alcohol-based hand rub. Stay safe!
Speaker 0: If you do not have any respiratory symptoms, such as fever, cough or runny nose, you do not need to wear a medical masks, like this one. Mask alone can give you a false feeling of protection and can even be a source of infection when not used correctly. Masks should only be used by health care workers, caretakers or by people who are sick with symptoms of fever and cough. Why? Because health care workers and caretakers are in close contact with ill individuals, so they're at higher risk of catching COVID-nineteen.
And sick people should wear masks to protect others from small droplets that can come out when they cough or sneeze. So For health care workers, caretakers or individuals who have fever and cough, this is how you should wear a mask. Before touching the mask, clean your hands with alcohol based hand rub or soap and water. Inspect the mask for tears or holds, Verify which side is the top. This is where the metal piece is.
Then identify the inside of the mask, which is usually the white side. Then, fit the mask on your face. Pinch the metal strip or stiff edge so it holds to the shape of your nose. Adjust the mask over your face, covering your mouth and chin, making sure there are no gaps between your face and the mask. Do not touch the front of the mask while using it to avoid contamination.
If you accidentally touch it, clean your hands. To take off the mask, remove the elastics from behind without touching the front, and keep it away from your face. Discard the mask immediately in a closed bin and clean your hands. It is important not to reuse a mask. Replace it with a new one as soon as it gets damp.
And remember, the best way to protect yourself from the new Coronavirus is frequently cleaning your hands with alcohol based hand rub or soap and water. Stay safe, and see you next time.
@c_plushie - Coronavirus Plushie
This is the second video, originally uploaded to the @WHO You Tube channel on 6 Feb, 2020, but also made 'unlisted' a few months later. https://t.co/WftkH3GPYX
Video Transcript AI Summary
Medical masks alone cannot protect against the new coronavirus. They should be combined with hand hygiene and other preventive measures. The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends wearing masks only if you have cough, fever, or difficulty breathing, and when seeking medical care. If you are healthy but caring for an infected person, wear a mask when in the same room. Masks do not need to be worn by those without symptoms as there is no evidence of protection. Properly discard used masks and clean hands with alcohol hand rub or soap and water. For more information, visit the WHO website at who.int. Thank you.
Speaker 0: Medical masks like this one cannot predict against the new coronavirus when used alone. When you wear them, you must combine with hand hygiene and other preventive measures. WHO only recommends the use of masks in specific cases. If you have cough, fever and difficulty breathing, you should wear a mask and seek medical care. If you do not have these symptoms, you do not have to wear masks Because there is no evidence that they protect people who are not sick.
However, if you are healthy But you are taking care of a person who may be infected with the new coronavirus, then you should wear a mask whenever you are in the same room with that person. And remember, if you choose to wear a mask, use it and discard it properly and clean your hands with alcohol hand rub or soap and water. For more information on mask use, other preventive measures And the new coronavirus, check WHO website at who.int. Thank you.
@c_plushie - Coronavirus Plushie
@WHO Here's the original link to the first video, uploaded to the
@WHO You Tube channel on 10 March 2020. Look directly under the video title, and you'll see that it is now an 'unlisted' video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4olt47pr_o
@c_plushie - Coronavirus Plushie
And here's the original link to the second video, uploaded to the @WHO You Tube channel on 6 Feb 2020. Again, look directly under the video title, and you'll see that it is now an 'unlisted' video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ded_AxFfJoQ
@c_plushie - Coronavirus Plushie
My timeline video, which feature clips from both of the above videos
How went from being told NOT to wear face masks, to being MANDATED to wear them.
A Timeline of 2020.
https://t.co/Jz5hr9GTxP
@c_plushie - Coronavirus Plushie
I see that in the UK, what with the 'Eris variant', they're trying to get people to wear masks again.
So just a reminder . . .
How we went from being told NOT to wear face masks, to being MANDATED to wear them.
A Timeline of 2020
๐ท https://t.co/Yt7dgITrMs
Video Transcript AI Summary
Face masks are not effective in preventing the spread of viruses, according to virologists and health officials. The types of masks that are commonly worn by the public, such as surgical masks and cloth masks, do not provide adequate protection. They have gaps that allow viruses to enter and can become damp, making them ineffective. Properly fitted N95 masks, worn by healthcare workers, can provide some protection. However, for the general public, wearing masks is not recommended and can even increase the risk of infection if not used correctly. The World Health Organization advises against wearing masks unless you have symptoms or are caring for someone who is sick.
Speaker 0: Consultant virologist at Cambridge University and Naked Scientist, doctor Chris Smith, Is with us now. Hi, Chris.
Speaker 1: Hello, Kim.
Speaker 0: Are face masks effective and would you, do you wear 1 on a plane?
Speaker 1: No. Save your money. Go and go and spend it on something useful instead that you enjoy doing like having a beer. Those face masks are absolute rubbish and they do absolutely nothing.
Speaker 0: So are you saying that viruses can get through face masks without any difficulty?
Speaker 1: Depends on the face mask. The kinds of masks that we're talking about that you go and buy off of street vendor and then you wear on the underground or you know wear on the tram or something, wear around the streets. Those are absolutely useless. If you are in hospital and you are fit tested for a proper prophylactic protective mask. Those do work.
Speaker 2: A comment on n 90 fives. They, need to be fitted properly. And all our workforces who are using those masks and health the health care system and at the border have proper fit testing because if they're not fitted properly then they can be less effective than a a normal cloth or indeed a surgical medical mask.
Speaker 1: They form a proper seal around your face and around your nose and mouth, and you also wear eye protection.
Speaker 3: The virus can be, also infect you via your eyes.
Speaker 1: And they have very stringent filtering as well. Unlike the ones that are cheap and nasty by on the street, where there are big gaps around the sides of your face and every time you cough and sneeze it just comes flying out the side and also they dampen. So as you breathe they get damp and that dampness just makes a nice conduit through for the virus particles And the virus particles are absolutely miniscule compared to the enormous gaps in the fibers in the mass. For all those reasons they're absolutely useless and and they make people feel better. And as as I say, warn you off of hanging around with somebody who might be infectious at the time.
But beyond that, they're they're just cosmetic.
Speaker 0: Good to know. Thank you, Chris. Doctor Chris Smith.
Speaker 2: Some of you may have heard the interview that Kim Hill did with, virologist Chris Smith from Cambridge University. He was very clear on this. You can use a face mask if you like but it is not really any protection.
Speaker 4: WHO only recommends the use of masks in specific cases. If you have cough, fever, and difficulty breathing, you should wear a mask and seek medical care. If you do not have these symptoms, you do not have to wear masks because there is no evidence that they protect people who are not sick.
Speaker 2: They have to be put on correctly, and often people are fitting with their masks. They then have an opportunity to get The virus, whatever it might be on their fingers and spread it in other ways.
Speaker 5: And most over the counter options won't prevent people catching the virus.
Speaker 3: They're not very effective. After all, the virus can be, also infect you via your eyes. It basically likes to Land on mucus membranes and then, from your eyes go down to your nose anyway. So, I think people should not bother with face masks.
Speaker 6: Let's talk about the mask. We hear about the n 95, the n 99, and people walking around with masks. Are masks, Do they help prevent this? And what you see on the screen right now is a mask that most people have, the the surgical mask, which is like paper, And then the n 95, which is something, I guess, like a painter would use, and the n 99, which has a filter. Talk about these masks.
Do we get them or don't we?
Speaker 7: Well, the coronavirus is a respiratory virus. And a surgical mask, let's start with that one, does not protect you from the resp from from a respiratory virus. It's got leaks all around it, and, it's really designed as a barrier protection for people in the operating room. That's why they call it a surgical The N 95, which is the one that people are buying up. Important also to understand that, that that N 95 mask, I have to be fit tested for it.
I've got to make sure I've got a tight seal to wear it as a health care provider. The average person out there, the average citizen, That mask is not going to protect them. And as a matter of fact, in most cases, they're actually going to increase their risk of being contaminated with with a virus when they when they're wearing that mask improperly because they tend to touch their face, they tend to move it around. It's very uncomfortable. It's hard to breathe in.
Not only are you not preventing yourself from getting, a disease. You may be increasing your chance of getting a disease by wearing that that mask. There are things you can do to keep yourself safe. Wearing a mask, If you're someone from the general public, is not one of them. Important for folks to know that right now, their risk as American citizens remains low.
There are things that people can do to stay safe. There are things they shouldn't be doing. And one of the things they shouldn't be doing, the general public, is going out and buying mask. It actually, does not help. It's not been proven to be effective in preventing spread of coronavirus amongst the general public.
And actually people who tend to buy mask and don't know how to wear them properly. I have a healthcare provider. I have to get fit tested. Folks who don't know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: A lot and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus. You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a health care provider.
Speaker 8: In terms of wearing a mask, our advice is clear that wearing a mask if you don't have in an infection
Speaker 9: Now when you see people and look at the films in China and South Korea, whatever, everybody's wearing a mask, Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks.
Speaker 10: You're sure of it? Because people are listening really closely to this.
Speaker 9: Right now, people should not be there's no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you're in the middle of an outbreak, Wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better, and it might even block a droplet, But it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And often, there are unintended consequences. People keep fiddling with the mask, and they keep touching their face.
Speaker 11: I see people wearing masks. Your views on masks because a lot of people are going out buying up their hand sanitizer, buying masks and also Toilet paper. But is there any reason why masks are something that people should be using?
Speaker 12: So for the general public, if you don't have symptoms, There's no need to wear a mask. The thing is the virus can still get in through your eyes. So if somebody's gonna sneeze on you, the mask will only protect your nose. It won't protect your eyes. The people who will need to be wearing masks right now is if you are symptomatic.
Speaker 6: If you
Speaker 12: have symptoms if you're sneezy, wear a mask because we know that the particles that you sneeze out could possibly infect people. So what that does is keep those particles inside your mask. You can't really infect yourself. There are different types of masks.
Speaker 13: So the ones that people are buying at
Speaker 12: the supermarket are what surgical masks are the the rectangular ones, and you'll see that they've got gaps in the back here. So they're not fully protecting you.
Speaker 13: The ones that our health
Speaker 12: Care workers have are different, and they will have a full seal around their face. Those are very important for our health care workers, and we need to make sure that there are enough in there.
Speaker 14: If you do not have any respiratory symptoms, such as fever, cough or runny you do not need to wear a medical mask, like this one. Mask alone can give you a false feeling of protection and can even be a source of infection when not used correctly.
Speaker 15: Hi, folks. I've asked the, deputy chief medical officer, doctor Jenny Harris, to come here to Downing Street. Tell us about the value of wearing face mask. You see face mask around the place. Is there any point to that?
Speaker 16: If a health care professional hasn't advised you to wear a face mask. It's usually quite a bad idea. People tend to leave them on. They contaminate the the face mask and then wipe it over something. It's really not a good idea and doesn't help.
The average member of the public wandering down the street, this is really not a good idea. What tends to happen is people will have one mask. You can imagine they don't wear it all the time. They'll take it off when they get home. They'll put it down on a surface that they haven't cleaned or they will be out and they haven't washed their hands.
They will go and have a cup of coffee somewhere. They half hook it off. They'll wipe something over it. They'll put it back off and in fact, you can actually trap the virus in the mask and then start breathing in. So So
Speaker 17: they could be putting themselves more at risk Well, it
Speaker 16: It just doesn't, so yes, because of this issue of, if you like behavioral issues, which are really important when we're talking about infectious diseases. People tend to can in fact adversely put themselves at more risk than less.
Speaker 18: Healthy people are being warned against using face masks to protect themselves against the virus. As Justine Conway explains, Experts fear incorrect use could lead to more infection.
Speaker 19: It's becoming commonplace. On the streets and in supermarkets, people are increasingly wearing face masks just as a precaution. The state government's advice on wearing face masks is in line with the World Health Organization. Under its guidelines, masks should only be worn if you have a cough, fever, and difficulty breathing, or if you are healthy and taking care of someone with these symptoms and or someone with a confirmed case of COVID 19. When you look at some of the masks people are wearing, you can see there is a huge range of products out there.
And while they may offer some sense of security, experts warn, if you wear a mask the wrong way, it could actually Make you sick.
Speaker 20: When I've been walking about, I've been seeing people touching the front of the masks, adjusting the masks on their face, and then going and touching other things. What we've got to remember is that front of the mask may be picking up different pathogens.
Speaker 19: And the same goes for gloves.
Speaker 21: But to your evidence point about face masks and wearing of face masks by the general public. This has been a controversial area in pandemic preparedness and planning for, the 15 years that I've been involved in it. And, indeed, I was on the phone this morning to, a colleague in Hong Kong, who's a professor there, who's done the evidence review for the World Health Organization on face masks, and we're of the same mind that there is no evidence that general wearing of face masks by the public who are well affects the spread of the disease in our society. Yes, it is true that we do see very large amounts of, mask wearing, particularly in Southeast Asia, But we have always seen that for many decades, and it is entirely wired into some cultures that masks are worn quite frequently in open spaces. So it's very different.
But in terms of the hard evidence and what the UK government recommends, we do not recommend face masks for general wearing by the public.
Speaker 5: Health Healthy West Australians are being warned against using face masks to protect themselves against coronavirus. A safety video is going viral, showing how ineffective some can be as the nation struggles with a surgical mask shortage.
Speaker 22: It's the safety video going viral. An Argentinian firefighter with a deodorant can, Simulating a sneeze or cough.
Speaker 23: Passer.
Speaker 22: Its feared coronavirus could travel in the air like deodorant does in aerosols. This demonstration showing most face masks are useless at trapping or blocking moisture unless they're the N95 grade.
Speaker 23: No buzz.
Speaker 22: Yet across Perth, people are wearing them. Some surgical, some homemade. The State Government's advice in line with the World Health Organization, unless you have symptoms of COVID-nineteen, don't wear 1.
Speaker 10: To wear them as a perfectly fit and healthy person in the street is not gonna provide you with any greater level of protection.
Speaker 22: Unless thoroughly disinfected and cleaned, Experts say homemade masks can even be dangerous.
Speaker 24: They will soak up moisture very easily and can easily infect someone wearing them. Patrick,
Speaker 11: anything to add on that?
Speaker 25: Well, I don't I don't
Speaker 24: think so. I mean, the evidence on face masks has always been quite variable, quite weak, quite difficult to know exactly. There's no real trials on it. And, we will, we've undertaken a review. We'll give our advice to ministers, and they'll make decisions about what to do around that.
That if you're working in a hospital, in a care home, then there's a need for a mask. So we've got to make sure that that is the top priority when the evidence around the use of masks by the general public, especially
Speaker 26: here, which is that there is weak evidence of a small effect in which a face mask can prevent a source of infection going from somebody who is infected, to the people around them.
Speaker 27: The the science has been, very clear on this. For about 30 years, we've been testing the safety and efficacy of masks. There's a reason that We don't recommend masks for influenza because they have been shown in the highest level, highest order of sciences is randomized controlled trials and multiple randomized controlled trials that we meta analyze or we do a systemic review. So the highest level of science says that masks do not work to prevent the transmission of influenza. Now there are no randomized controlled trials of SARS CoV 2, in at present.
So there certainly are no meta analysis. But the meta analysis, of of influenza have clearly said we don't we shouldn't mask the population because we know that there are risks associated with wearing a mask. Now any medical intervention should be evaluated and the individual should make a decision, you know, do the benefits outweigh the risk? And in my opinion, as a medical physician, The risks are too high and there's too little benefit for masks to be recommended. Now, I will say there is a new study out there that just came out, that it does is a more systemic review of the existing science as it relates to SARS CoV 2.
And that study by Jing Zhao out of, a specialist from Hong Kong clearly says masks provided no benefit in this systemic review of the existing science. So when people say, you know and they'll often debate with me on social media and they'll give me a long list of these studies that purport to say masks are effective. When you break down that science, you will find that they're using low level science that is based on retrospective, observational, case controls, theoretical science, all of which is inferior to making a sound decision. So we look to the higher order, the more sound, reliable science and that science clearly says master ineffective.
Speaker 25: In light of evolving evidence, WHO advises that government should encourage the general public to wear masks where there is widespread transmission and physical distancing is difficult, such as on public transport, in shops or in other confined or crowded environments.
Speaker 5: As of Monday 15th June, face coverings will become mandatory on public transport. We'll make these rule changes under the National Rail Conditions of Travel and the public service vehicle regulations for buses. This will mean that you can be refused travel if you don't comply, and you could be fined. Transport operators will be able to refuse permission to travel where someone isn't using a face covering. And this weekend, I'm taking powers through the Public Health Act, leading to fines for noncompliance too.
Speaker 24: We've therefore come to the decision that face coverings should be mandatory in shops and supermarkets. Last month, We made face coverings mandatory on public transport and in NHS settings. Under the new rules, people who do not wear a face covering will face a fine of up to a ยฃ100, in line with the sanction on public transport. Should an individual without an exemption refuse to wear a face A shop can refuse them entry and can call the police if people refuse to comply. The police have formal enforcement powers and can issue a fine.
Speaker 23: 1st and foremost, masks and face coverings will from 11:59 p. M, Wednesday night
Speaker 8: with a woman caught without a mask. Video shows an officer holding the woman by the throat after she resisted arrest.
Speaker 1: Grabbed around the neck by police, a woman who wasn't wearing a mask.
Speaker 0: It's fucking me.
Speaker 1: The forceful maneuver during a scuffle yesterday in Collingwood as her boyfriend watched.
Speaker 10: There's a man on a girl and you choke her.
Speaker 6: For what? For a mask?
Speaker 11: For breaches of the state's coronavirus restrictions.
Speaker 28: Another anti masker who thinks it's his right to not wear 1.
Speaker 10: Where do
Speaker 29: you where do you get the pounds from?
Speaker 24: I promise you. Well, well,
Speaker 30: you are. You've come up to me.
Speaker 28: After minutes of refusing to cooperate
Speaker 10: We're We're gonna place you under arrest until we can confirm who you are.
Speaker 23: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 31: I I can tell you who I am.
Speaker 10: Yeah. But we need to confirm who you are.
Speaker 31: Have to hold me. You don't have to hold me. I I will tell you.
Speaker 28: In the past 24 hours, police have issued 176 fines. 51 of those were for people caught not wearing a face mask, and 55 people were fined for curfew breaches. A mother who refused to wear a mask and show identification Was also arrested. The ordeal captured on camera.
Speaker 32: It doesn't, let's say, make sense on the science. It doesn't make sense on on on on the facts. So here's another absolutely fascinating fact. A few months well, a few weeks ago, if you look For papers policy papers, research papers saying whether masks were a good idea. There were several some papers, some of which have disappeared from their positions on the net, which were hostile to to muzzles.
Speaker 10: Yes.
Speaker 32: There was a statement by the World Cup Organization, which was definitely against the wearing model. Now a few weeks ago, the World Health Organization did a reverse ferries and changed its mind. And, Deborah Cohen of The medical correspondent news night on the BBC has an amazing scoop the other day. She actually discovered she put it to the WHO that her contacts within inside the World Health Organization had told her that the the position of the WHO on Muslims have been changed because of political pressure, not because of of medical reasons.
Speaker 7: Wow.
Speaker 17: The debate is deeply political. Newsnight understands that the World Health organization committee that reviewed the evidence for the use of face coverings in public didn't back them. But after political lobbying, the WHO Now recommends them.
Speaker 9: Plan a, don't go in a crowd. Plan b, if you do, make sure you wear a mask. Right now, people should not be walk there's no reason to be walking around with a mask. Please.
Speaker 7: Please. Please wear a face covering when you go out in public. Folks who don't know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces
Speaker 25: Yep.
Speaker 7: A lot and actually can increase the Spread of coronavirus you can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask. There are things you can do to keep yourself safe. Wearing a mask, if you're someone from the general public is not one of them. We're
Speaker 17: joined by Otago University's public health professor Michael Baker Morena and well, I can't see you behind your
Speaker 6: back. Hello.
Speaker 23: Marina.
Speaker 17: So how does it feel to be wearing a mask on, public television?
Speaker 23: I'm just getting a bit of practice in in case I need one. But, New Zealanders, as we know, we're just not used to wearing these things.
Speaker 10: No.
Speaker 23: But they're actually a great precaution to have available if we get resurgence in New Zealand. And we think this should be part of our resurgence planning and that every New Zealander should have a mask at home and know how to use it and when to use it. Virtually every country in the world now has masks as a key control measure. And we think every New Zealander could have one of these at home. In fact, why not get all the school children in New Zealand to start making these for themselves and their families?
Speaker 19: On masks, why have you chosen not to mandate it, mask use
Speaker 6: At this stage.
Speaker 11: At
Speaker 19: this this point. Yeah. And is that something that's still on the table? Could we still see mandated masks?
Speaker 11: Yes. We we could still see mandated mask use, But is there any reason why masks are something that people should be using?
Speaker 12: So for the general public, if you don't have symptoms, there's no need to wear a The thing is the virus can still get in through your eyes.
Speaker 2: So I've got one right here in my pocket, actually. This is a homemade mask, which there are various patents for on the on the, on the internet. I've also had a lovely one sent by a member of the public, which has got the tartus on it, which is nice. The important thing here is to, of course, hold the elastic at the ends and and keep the the hands away from The the mouth and face that goes here over the over the years. You can use a face mask if you like but it is not really any protection.
Speaker 11: Cabinet has decided to move to mandating the wearing of face coverings on public transport for Level 2 and above. These new orders will come into force from Monday. This isn't a decision we took lightly, but we know masks protect you and the People around you.
Speaker 13: So the ones that people are buying at
Speaker 12: the supermarket are what are called surgical masks. They're the rectangular ones and you'll see that they've got gaps in the back here. So they're not fully protecting you.
Speaker 33: Let's just Set partisanship aside. Let's end the politics and follow the science. Wearing a mask is not a political statement.
Speaker 17: But after political lobbying
Speaker 33: It's a scientific recommendation.
